00:12:42 <oerjan> <b_jonas> wow, this magical javascript numeric input box is so great! <-- were you changing payment limits too, like it did the other day?
00:12:54 <oerjan> i noticed the same effect
00:14:44 <oerjan> i don't think it put the cursor at the end, so i ended up with 50 or so.
00:15:44 <b_jonas> oerjan: not payment limits (see later in the backscroll), and it definitely put the cursor at the end too
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01:11:23 <esolangs> [[Nondescript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89281&oldid=89217 * PixelatedStarfish * (+152)
01:11:44 <esolangs> [[Nondescript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89282&oldid=89281 * PixelatedStarfish * (+9) /* Truth Machine */
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02:47:13 <nakilon> how about apologizing for repetitive false accusation and defamation of my persona? you are starting politics in this channel and then blatantly lie that it is me who is doing that; both times it was another person -- it's clearly seen in logs, but you repeat the lies about me again and again
02:48:46 <nakilon> you are bringing in politics, you are in fact trolling, you are even insulting me with cursing words, and doing it again and again you pollute the channel and make people believe that your lies are true ,just by continuing doing it and muting me so to I won't prove that you are lying
02:49:04 <imode> wait, you got unbanned?
02:50:10 <nakilon> this is a plain discrimination and op privilege abuse; violation of multiple rules of the network and even the Sweden laws that this network is following
02:51:21 <imode> oh you were never banned properly.
02:51:28 <imode> oerjan: methinks you got the ban mask wrong.
02:51:34 <Corbin> I shouldn't have started that previous politics discussion, I suppose.
02:51:49 <nakilon> the small team of privilege abusing ops behave in an absolutely disrespectfull and discriminating manner
02:52:06 <imode> should've been *!*@user/nakilon
02:53:36 <zzo38> I don't know what are the Swedish laws; I live in Canada.
02:54:01 <nakilon> ops are keeping this channel hateful and encouraging discrimination, repetitively doing trolling, flaming and false accusations of me just because on their personal hate towards my ethnic belonging
02:54:11 <imode> shut the fuck up you absolute insufferable drama queen.
02:54:16 <imode> go to #libera and get k-lined.
02:54:35 <imode> this is not your personal scratch-and-piss post.
02:54:45 <imode> nobody in here is interested in engaging with you.
02:55:02 <imode> and according to network policy, ban evasion is absolutely worth of op intervention.
02:55:39 <nakilon> hypocritically flaming, expressing their hate, pushing political propaganda, fakes, rumors and defamating me and people I'm associated with
02:55:52 <imode> oh no, cry about it.
02:55:59 <imode> go get the police.
02:56:07 <imode> sue us or something.
02:56:16 <imode> get so angry you put a hole through your monitor.
02:56:41 <nakilon> channel topic says "Welcome" and even wiki probably says that this channel is "friendly" or something like that but it's full of hate produced by just 2-3 persons
02:56:50 <imode> lmao so fuckin leave.
02:57:25 <imode> you russians are so typical. you spit and spout and threaten and anguish over any perceived character attack, well let me make this clear to you: you are a bad person.
02:57:35 <imode> there is no authority to appeal to, you've already been banned and are evading.
02:57:51 <imode> so bitch and whine louder, nobody fucking cares.
02:58:04 <imode> grow some thick skin and shut your fucking face hole.
02:58:18 <nakilon> also repetitive false accusation that I lie
02:58:39 <nakilon> with following mute to make me unable to tell that I don't
02:59:29 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
02:59:35 <nakilon> if this channel is a personal house of 2-3 hatefull persons write it in the topic
02:59:50 <imode> kicking him would verify that it works as well.
02:59:55 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!nakilon@user/nakilon.
02:59:58 <nakilon> all accusations towards me are false
03:00:00 <Corbin> nakilon: On one hand, it sounds like your personal circumstances are very stressful and demanding right now; I don't envy you. OTOH, I think that you've overstated the rudeness; you and your associates have been defamed!?
03:00:09 <imode> Corbin: don't bother engaging, I implore you.
03:00:10 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@/user/nakilon.
03:00:14 -!- oerjan has kicked nakilon nakilon.
03:00:29 <imode> been waiting for that since that nutter joined.
03:00:36 <Corbin> imode: Okay. Just consider this: There's no such thing as a good person. After you cool off, please reread the scrollback and consider how you would feel if you were to talk to your past self.
03:00:50 <imode> Corbin: don't know if you've been around but they're a known troll.
03:01:20 <Corbin> imode: Ah, of course, because *they* were known to be a troll, *you* don't have to reread your scrollback and consider your actions~
03:01:22 <oerjan> imode: you are also borderline in my opinion
03:01:40 <imode> oerjan: meh. I was fed up with him.
03:01:55 <imode> I am not tolerant to intolerant people.
03:02:12 <imode> I've banned him from other channels for trying to race bait people.
03:02:18 <imode> and for saying some unsavory things about jews.
03:02:21 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
03:08:25 <oerjan> <nakilon> hypocritically flaming, expressing their hate, pushing political propaganda, fakes, rumors and defamating me and people I'm associated with <-- wow, talk about talking about himself :P
03:08:54 <imode> that's why I haven't been present lately. surprised it took this long.
03:09:52 <imode> the excessive political talk, the livejournal-like self-discussion about said talk.
03:10:20 <imode> there weren't discussions, there was him ranting with an interjection that was shut down.
03:11:03 <oerjan> <imode> you russians are so typical. <-- i want it on the record that i have absolutely no problems with the _other_ russian regular on this channel.
03:11:45 <imode> _neither do I_. however, I've noticed that some subset of the russian population _acts like that_. I have a russian colleague that moved to the US and he's an absolute treat.
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03:20:25 * oerjan looks slightly nervously at the dragon
03:20:43 <imode> nakilon is complaining in #libera to the staff.
03:20:54 <oerjan> i suspected something like that yeah
03:21:18 <HackEso> The password of the month is Ebay DVD demagnetizer.
03:21:25 <pikhq> they did indicate with their last ban evasion message batch that they'd do so
03:26:37 <oerjan> imode: so many events everywhere recently just lampshading to me how most humans live in their own little reality bubbles and get offended when it's pierced. i'm sure i must have my own too.
03:27:22 <oerjan> (i'm not sure "most" shouldn't be "absolutely all")
03:27:33 <int-e> Just don't try to validate your insecurities on random IRC channels and you'll be fine.
03:28:12 <imode> solid advice for life, but I imagine those that do don't have another outlet.
03:28:24 <imode> oerjan: I definitely live in mine, everybody has their own context.
03:28:30 <pikhq> int-e: i mean i did for quite some time and it turned out okay
03:28:32 <imode> I just don't go running to the staff when I'm asked to leave.
03:29:02 <imode> pikhq: you had supportive people I imagine.
03:29:15 <int-e> pikhq: maybe you picked your outlets somewhat more strategically :P
03:29:25 <int-e> eh, I'm oversimplifying anyway
03:29:40 <int-e> there's a lot to be said for the ability to back off
03:29:42 <pikhq> i mean i managed to find _romantic partners_ on irc, i dont think im typical
03:29:52 <imode> you wouldn't be alone in that, tbf.
03:31:17 <int-e> oerjan: anyway thanks for stepping in
03:32:00 <pikhq> i seem to recall nakilon was one of the people that went off on a random transphobic tirade a while back, too...
03:32:23 <imode> wouldn't surprise me, I've heard similar bouts from him.
03:34:29 <int-e> Heh... anyone remember the swamp dragons from Discworld that explode when exposed to their own mirror image...
03:35:16 <oerjan> hum i remember some swamp dragons but not the part about exploding
03:35:20 <fizzie> Well, in the interests of having all the op opinions for the public record... while I might be a bit on the fence on that last ban's "fairness" (given that someone else did arguably "start" it), I'm not disagreeing with the overall notion that those rants are unwelcome, or arguing that we should keep ignoring them forever.
03:35:26 <fizzie> (I've not been following closely.)
03:35:32 <fizzie> I just think it's a shame, because there *was* clearly actual esolangs content in there, which I think isn't the case for the majority of (the few) people we ban.
03:36:22 <imode> he couldn't separate the political junk from the esolangs junk.
03:38:12 <imode> the diagram of knobheads and programmers is two overlapping circles, I know because I'm one of them. but I don't drag political stuff in here.
03:42:23 <fizzie> I remember some swamp dragons from I think Feet of Clay.
03:44:54 <oerjan> they were sybil's dragons, as i recall.
03:45:05 <oerjan> (just looked up her name)
03:45:41 <oerjan> that rocket powered one that led away the big one
03:45:50 <int-e> Yes, Sybil operates a sanctuary for the things
03:46:10 * int-e forgot what it's called though
03:46:51 <fizzie> I had to look up the book title by searching for "vimes heraldry" because I only remembered it was the same book as where that subplot was.
03:49:38 <oerjan> fizzie: after being tempted to argue with nakilon about whether it was "fair", i realized that such arguing itself was a troll trap. which is why i retroactively changed the reason into just generally trolling.
03:52:59 <oerjan> my last words to him in private were "you know what? it doesn't matter. you are still an annoying troll."
03:53:20 <int-e> dirty secret of moderation: effective moderation doesn't have to be fair (it's more about identifying and removing the nexus of trouble), and trying to be fair may actually have adverse effects (rule lawyering)
03:53:33 <imode> oerjan: treat me as a canary, I sniff that shit out right away. :P
03:54:10 <oerjan> imode: well intellectually i knew this already, i just had to experience it.
03:56:09 <fizzie> I don't know what the definition of "trolling" is, but I feel like it involves an element of insincerity, and I did think those were just sincere beliefs they had about how the world really is, and frustration on how nobody here "gets it". But maybe it's more about the pattern of behaviour instead.
03:56:32 <oerjan> trolling modulo poe's law
03:57:06 <imode> it's the pattern of behavior. it evolved from being insincere to "staying in place as long as possible by weaseling around moderation".
03:57:45 <imode> "how long can I use the people around me against themselves to stay here and keep doing what I'm doing"
03:57:54 <imode> hence the defamation comments, etc.
03:59:21 <imode> making yourself the victim and saying outlandish shit takes people aback. "wait, what? I'm not doing X.." "YOU'RE DOING X! I KNOW IT! YOU'RE DISHONEST HORRIBLE RACIST..." etc.
03:59:32 <imode> and that's a tactic to keep them there.
04:00:03 <imode> folks like that prey on the civility of others. I am not civil. your ass gets the boot if I see that shit.
04:00:29 <int-e> A proper troll could do better.
04:00:56 <imode> I feel like nakilon is a proper troll. he stayed here for long enough.
04:00:58 <oerjan> i am civil, usually. but i am somewhat immune to obviously hypocritical arguments.
04:01:15 <int-e> (I don't think of nakilon as a troll. But I don't have a term for this behavior, apart from projection, which is too generic.)
04:01:16 <imode> the asymmetry of bullshit, oerjan. that's the tactic.
04:01:31 <imode> throw enough out and you'll be scrambling to address it all.
04:01:51 <oerjan> ah yes the less wrongers had a name for that
04:01:52 <imode> it's easier to say obviously wrong/invalid shit than to disprove/address it.
04:01:57 <int-e> Then again my definition of a troll is heavily colored by http://criticalmiss.com/issue9/troll1.html
04:02:49 <imode> yeah that gets people fighting against themselves.
04:04:47 <int-e> Hmm, the November Ponder This! is a continuation to the October one and still very easy.
04:05:21 <int-e> Oh, no exclamation mark? I thought it had one... maybe it was dropped. Or my memory is deceiving me, always a possibility.
04:14:35 <fizzie> I somehow got reminded of #linux.fi of IRCnet, a channel that (in my circles, anyway) was famous for unapproachability alone. I think I lasted for less than a week before getting kicked out, the one time I tried to see what it was like.
04:15:12 <fizzie> (It may have changed since then, this was at least 20 years ago.)
04:24:49 <imode> being unapproachable is different from being tolerant of intolerance.
04:25:12 <imode> the former is being generally hostile, the latter is allowing specifically hostile people in.
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05:26:55 <esolangs> [[Nondescript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89283&oldid=89282 * PixelatedStarfish * (+74) /* Program Examples */
05:27:11 <esolangs> [[Nondescript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89284&oldid=89283 * PixelatedStarfish * (+12) /* Random Number (1-10) */
05:27:58 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Roc0ast3r * New user account
05:30:51 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89285&oldid=89274 * Roc0ast3r * (+237) /* Introductions */
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08:06:00 <esolangs> [[Fun Craft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89286&oldid=89266 * ManiPM * (+32) /* Interpreter in Java */
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08:21:31 <esolangs> [[Fun Craft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89287&oldid=89286 * ManiPM * (+66)
08:28:17 <esolangs> [[Fun Craft]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89288&oldid=89287 * ManiPM * (+65)
08:31:40 <HackEso> I'm sorry, #esoteric has regulars, not members. Who told you about members? There are definitely no members here, and you wouldn't be allowed to know about them, anyway.
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08:33:26 <b_jonas> "<oerjan> <b_jonas> oerjan: that should be a quiet rather than a ban though, just on principle <-- what principle i'm not very good at this" => the principle that we don't restrict the channel to members because we're not discussing our secrets here, so anyone is allowed to listen. and he probably won't abuse being quieted but unbanned.
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10:18:13 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ngoctnq * New user account
10:23:39 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89289&oldid=89285 * Ngoctnq * (+163)
10:28:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89290&oldid=89289 * Ngoctnq * (-4) alright, I might be dumb
10:32:56 <esolangs> [[Hanoi Love]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89291&oldid=88904 * Ngoctnq * (+105) /* External resources */
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16:01:11 <esolangs> [[CLE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89292&oldid=89277 * Not applicable * (+2) PLEASE give me a better name for "solar panels"
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17:10:49 <arseniiv> how unfortunate is to be given a banned IP by your ISP
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19:32:22 <zzo38> Now I defined another bit of the control flag of GLOGG container format, which is set if the stream needs to be discarded by anything that edits/splices it, due to it being sensitive to the structure of the file. (For example, it might be set if this stream is a key frame index for the other streams.)
19:33:49 <zzo38> (Now there are three unused bits.)
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21:08:30 <esolangs> [[Counting]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89293&oldid=70401 * Fmbalbuena * (-29) Removed one unnecessary line (Swap() is in pseudo-code ...)
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22:37:46 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89294&oldid=89290 * AnonymousStackOverflow * (+319) introduced myself
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