< 1641254792 383917 :Trieste!T@user/pilgrim QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1641254865 69489 :Trieste!T@user/pilgrim JOIN #esolangs pilgrim :T < 1641259717 107228 :Everything!~Everythin@37.115.210.35 JOIN #esolangs * :Everything > 1641261433 240178 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[072Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91568&oldid=90151 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+18) 10 > 1641261520 829363 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07HQ9+2D14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91569&oldid=89914 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+2) 10 < 1641263780 32711 :eli_oat!~eli_oat@185.199.103.219 JOIN #esolangs eli_oat :eli_oat < 1641263908 452740 :delta23!~delta23@user/delta23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1641264212 836827 :eli_oat!~eli_oat@185.199.103.219 QUIT :Quit: eli_oat < 1641264494 61509 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1641264541 347430 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: I use stalker mode frequently, it's my usual method of reading #esoteric < 1641264592 862911 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a) because it's a convenient way to see the logs for the last several days (i.e. since i last read it), b) because my IRC client and network connection are both really unreliable so it's a more reliable way to see what people are saying in pseudo-realtime than actually connecting to IRC is < 1641264648 725822 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oerjan: Uggaman doesn't have the same style as any banned user I'm aware of, I think it's someone new (and probably immature rather than malicious) < 1641264659 757800 :FreeFull!~freefull@user-5-173-31-70.play-internet.pl QUIT : < 1641264699 88659 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :languages without control flow are an interesting issue – I get the feeling that esolangs.org has really taken off in the last few years, compared to when it was first created, and lots of people like the idea of making their own programming language but have no real idea how to go about it < 1641264753 898275 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and, well, for "typical" mass-produced esolangs (think BF derivatives and other things in the same sphere), implementing loops or other forms of control flow is hard compared to anything else you'd likely be doing < 1641265056 992118 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :what languages don't have control flow? < 1641265082 132134 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :languages in the Deadfish family < 1641265091 521264 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :they aren't TC, then? < 1641265104 124311 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no < 1641265120 932639 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the complaint is about the spam of languages that are unusable for programming due to having no sort of loop at all < 1641265136 869657 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :heh. < 1641265154 575908 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :low-effort non-TC langs not welcome, I take it. < 1641265180 903996 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, they aren't banned < 1641265184 611850 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but they tend to annoy some people < 1641265207 607952 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :I know when I'm just browsing, they annoy me because they just aren't worth looking at. < 1641265214 895255 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you're interested in TC languages without control flow, there are "implicit loop" languages like cyclic tag (or sequential tag) and Blindfolded Arithmetic < 1641265264 704254 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, some sort of VHDL-with-bignums could be an interesting language (restricted to the behavioural rather than imperative subset) < 1641265269 692063 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think there are many behavioural languages out there < 1641265282 201243 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :behavioral languages? < 1641265344 708852 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The whole slew of rewriting based languages (canonical examples: Semi-Thue systems and lambda calculus) have no control flow either, technically. (But they are embedded in an implicit loop that continues rewriting as long as possible.) < 1641265345 477778 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the way VHDL's behavioural subset works is, assignments have a time delay and can be done as a consequence of specific other values changing < 1641265366 70022 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so you can say "when X becomes 0, then after a short time delay, assign 1 to Y" < 1641265381 65104 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, rule oriented/trigger oriented. < 1641265386 88250 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, I like those languages. < 1641265388 34686 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then executing the language is done by putting a scheduler on all the assignments and letting them trigger each other < 1641265434 535667 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also you aren't supposed to assign to values more than once at a time (although VHDL actually contains 9-valued booleans for modelling what happens if you do anyway) < 1641265470 78761 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm actually exploring some stuff based around tuple spaces. < 1641265481 852548 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :that fits into that. but I'm having trouble really getting to the root of it. < 1641265509 528212 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the "fun" part is that VHDL isn't an esolang, it's actually one of the three main languages for programming FPGAs and ASICs < 1641265540 329085 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :mhm. used it extensively. those languages and other rule systems are stupid powerful. < 1641265551 686245 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's also interesting "machines" with no "control flow" in data compression: https://github.com/honno/gzip-quine (the original site seems to be gone) < 1641265636 592288 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that gzip quine is one of the few files on my computer that my virus scanner flags < 1641265647 275275 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because it tries to decompress it recursively during the virus scan, then gets upset < 1641265653 337670 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's 20.zip rebooted < 1641265684 648199 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :http://okturing.com/src/12884/body < 1641265687 283927 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(that was the zip file that contained 20 equal zip files, iterated 3 times or so, and then 1MB files full of zeros) < 1641265732 751687 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and obviously the solution in virus scanners was to tag that file as malware) < 1641265763 977495 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's kind-of obvious that an archive full of identical zip files would compress well < 1641265771 387980 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the zip quine is much less obvious, although it makes sense < 1641265849 538600 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, is there a run-length-encoding quine that gives an arbitrary prefix and suffix, for some reasonable run length encoding format? < 1641265858 123907 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(without, you can just do "2 2" but that doesn't generalize) < 1641265869 69537 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess you need to allow runs of multiple different symbols < 1641265887 858316 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually this is probably just resplicate, which is already known TC < 1641265906 263713 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but one-iteration resplicate, which isn't the same < 1641266065 77076 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, my point here was that gzip -d implements a weird straight line code machine without control flow, and you /can/ make this interesting (either because you're golfing, usually called compression, or because you actually do something esoteric like writing a quine) < 1641266083 71534 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh, apparently Firefox won't now open Haskell source code over HTTP (as opposed to HTTPS) without a warning, in case someone put some malicious code in there by tampering with the network connection < 1641266094 749309 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so absence of control flow is not sufficient to make things boring :P < 1641266124 908557 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it doesn't recognise the file type, so it doesn't know that it isn't going to be executed immediately as a consequence of opening it, but still…) < 1641266126 781516 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :...wow? < 1641266162 478597 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :gzip -d *does* have control flow, doesn't it? it's just that it's primitive-recursive < 1641266175 649960 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and not primitive-recursive-complete either, it only uses hardcoded iteration counts) < 1641266201 248232 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so programs are guaranteed to terminate, but that doesn't mean they can't have loops in < 1641266211 669548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I never like that this browser sees text/x-haskell and decides that it must be downloaded < 1641266215 866114 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's TEXT. < 1641266227 870795 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the server is involved in this too < 1641266234 94828 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I'm not sure to what extent < 1641266240 896014 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I resort to deliverint *.hs as text/plain from my webserver) < 1641266253 605708 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :like https://int-e.eu/~bf3/haskell/NatP.hs < 1641266258 190242 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have overrides to text/plain for quite a few source code extensions on my webserver < 1641266264 195749 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(you can try http too if you like) < 1641266326 69338 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm a little concerned about overuse of https – people often use it for things where there isn't actually a security guarantee, so using TLS as the transport is misleading < 1641266358 861030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't mind it terribly < 1641266363 278544 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(also, an https implementation is much more complex than an http implementation, so there's a huge increase in attack surface, and so it's likely to reduce security in some aspects whilst increasing it in others) < 1641266377 401156 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean, it doesn't *hurt* < 1641266407 776006 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :except for that I guess < 1641266480 914916 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just don't see how https makes us significantly more secure than http... against state level actors (who are the most likely to be able to mess with http too), seeing all the authorities that browsers trust by default. < 1641266534 822903 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(of course this is less about TLS and more about PKI) < 1641266570 559795 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think there are advantages to https for a) hiding which page on a website you're reading, and b) hiding the content of pages on the website you're reading (maybe they require a login), from other people on the same network as you < 1641266586 551737 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but these are the only common threat models where https does anything useful < 1641266646 743587 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, also the reverse directions, especially the reverse of b) (i.e. hiding the content that you're sending to a server from other people on your network) < 1641266672 993423 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it used to be possible to do things like steal people's Facebook passwords by connecting to the same wifi-router as them, until the Facebook login page go moved to https < 1641266738 133839 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(IIRC they got pressured into moving it to https via a security researcher who released a user-friendly tool for doing this automatically, to as many people as possible…) < 1641267566 865785 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 QUIT :Quit: quit > 1641268402 359673 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dashes14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91570&oldid=91558 5* 03DigitalDetective47 5* (-255) 10/* Commands */ Removed mention of Java 17 as definitions of looping commands within the table are sufficient. < 1641269107 769389 :Kit!~u0_a391@2603-6010-a141-6fa3-b8ac-26e7-b3fc-05ab.res6.spectrum.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1641269269 144523 :Kit!~u0_a391@cpe-76-190-178-139.neo.res.rr.com JOIN #esolangs * :u0_a391 < 1641269614 142790 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-122.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"implementing loops or other forms of control flow is hard compared to anything else you'd likely be doing" => heh heh. my first esolang is technically psz, which has reasonable control flow but absolutely broken syntax, so the parsing is the hardest part and I didn't get it right. < 1641269646 941015 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-122.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :You can say that I was too young and stupid and that's why I got a lot of things wrong in speccing the syntax, and that's true, but so are those people who submit control flowless languages < 1641269735 663318 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-122.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also I find it more annoying the languages that do appear to have control flow, so you can't just dismiss them quickly by reading, but their control flow turns out to be so inadequate that they're not TC for some stupid reason, like that language that's brainfuck with only one level of loop nesting. That wastes more of the reader's time. < 1641269757 581771 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-122.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :There are like three such brainfuck variants at least. < 1641269799 261406 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :man this thing isn't fuckin' TC. < 1641269821 802348 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I also dont like that the browser sees text/x-haskell and decides that it must be downloaded, but I managed to use userChrome.js to add a "view source" option to the download menu, and if that doesn't work, can just add "view-source:" in front of the URL. < 1641269885 854827 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I also don't like that many things require TLS, although I think it is OK to have it available as an option, for when you want it. < 1641270026 538805 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also, for the MIME types, I had idea making a better format that it can specify any number of file types at once instead of only one at a time, as well as parameters such as code page number and inner formats. (There is a bit similarity to UTI, but different in many ways, including that everything is listed intsead of having inheritance) < 1641270208 115661 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :what's a good way to store an unlabeled, undirected graph? < 1641270227 204596 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(TLS is good for preventing spies from viewing or tampering with the data, it does not prevent the server operator from doing so.) < 1641270268 221561 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and does not imply that the files downloaded in this way are necessarily safe, either, although it does prevent spies from adding bad things, at least) < 1641270321 277440 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :in every idea I can think of, you need to use some unique identifier for the nodes. < 1641270330 667466 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(But, I dislike HSTS especially, and also the way that the "secure contexts" feature is working.) < 1641270374 95663 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I also don't know how to store a unlabeled undirected graph in a good way; I also know you will need a unique identifier. I also wanted to think of how to do, in order to canonize it so that you can then compare it. < 1641270416 807076 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah... I'd like to eliminate the need to keep track of which identifiers are unique. < 1641270595 817158 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :seems like any implementation of rewriting over undirected, unlabeled graphs isn't turing equivalent unless you can generate new nodes and edges between those nodes. < 1641270672 495365 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Are you allowed to connect a node to itself, and are multiple edges connecting the same pair of nodes allowed? < 1641270692 572781 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :1. yes. 2. no. < 1641270692 614964 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Turns out I do in fact have a metric for the number of stalker clients connected. Not kept long-term, but for the last two weeks, it's never been more than 1 consecutively, but I guess there's on average one visit per day. So it does get some use. < 1641270749 821915 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :While there are ways to represent such a graph, I am not sure how to canonize it. < 1641270971 205659 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :firefox won't "open" haskell code? > 1641271133 861960 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07CPL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91571&oldid=18253 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+26) 10 < 1641271151 968930 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :I can't think of a single way of representing this without unique identifiers. < 1641271158 758101 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: There's the "Content-Disposition: inline" vs. "Content-Disposition: attachment" response header that's supposed to hint whether a page should be shown or downloaded, but I don't know if that'd be honoured for the "inline" case for text/* content. < 1641271199 811201 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you use a triangular matrix you're still implicitly preserving the concept of a unqiue identifier by way of indices. < 1641271201 771775 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess specwise "inline" means "default", so it shouldn't. > 1641271271 316457 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Waduzitdo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91572&oldid=78277 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+25) 10 > 1641271529 554785 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Squidmanescape/Unimplemented By Date14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91573&oldid=91478 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+89) 10Yes. < 1641271628 748498 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :firefox will ask what how to open unknown mimetypes. (it will then only fetch the data..and then open it with a program of your choice) .. a download attribute on links will enforce downloading for otherwise known filetypes. > 1641271805 454442 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Squidmanescape/Languages By Year Which are Neither Implemented Nor Jokes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91574&oldid=91479 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+89) 10 < 1641272158 68909 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :everyone can see what authorities are trusted by browsers by default. not just the state. < 1641272302 365718 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :what is the _simplest_ implementation of a unique identifier. < 1641272343 293053 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Is there an enumeration of unlabeled undirected graphs? I imagine there must. So just represent the graph by the index it has in that enumeration. Not exactly a practical choice to work with, though... < 1641272344 670921 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :I assume just.. a counter that's incremented every time you need something. < 1641272386 246673 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: yeah you need to actually unpack that to query/rewrite over it lol. < 1641272406 847097 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The address of a thing in memory, in some cases and in some programming languages. < 1641272409 130281 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :enumeration < 1641272446 3262 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :pointers... eh. that's basically picking random numbers. < 1641272516 614342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN #esolangs oerjan :Ørjan Johansen < 1641272538 491730 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, except that things often need to have an address *anyway*, so you can't avoid doing it, and then it's there as a unique identifier already. < 1641272553 336540 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :what about uniqueness cross-system? < 1641272580 773941 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :like, say, over the internet. < 1641272624 540877 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :pointers also don't work very well when you have to dump things to disk. < 1641272672 60636 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :its usually offsets. < 1641272721 604064 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :still doesn't help when I wanna grab someone's graph and graft it on to mine. all the nodes need to be relabeled. < 1641272739 145759 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :even though they are.. unlabeled. < 1641272763 313014 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :but that is also just enumeration. every number is unique. that is sufficient, no? < 1641272876 171107 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorta? if everyone's graph node IDs start at 0, and I wanna just concatenate two graphs together, I need to relabel all nodes. < 1641272898 777716 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :probably by starting from the maximum node number from graph A, adding that as an offset to every node number in graph B. < 1641272909 261077 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's not terribly unique, you need to maintain uniqueness. > 1641273970 246176 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Project Euler/114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91575&oldid=90132 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy 5* (+664) 10Added AsciiDots and Mathworld < 1641275003 533460 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Memory addresses if you need a unique ID only within the current process, can work and is something else I had done before too, both with static and dynamic memory. In the case of dynamic memory, you can have e.g. malloc(1), or malloc(sizeof(int)) or whatever size is needed if you need to keep track of the reference count, or larger if you want to store additional data too. < 1641275014 877858 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Of course, depending what data you will need to store and how much, it may waste memory.) > 1641275472 920723 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Squidmanescape/Languages By Year Which are Neither Implemented Nor Jokes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91576&oldid=91574 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (-1371) 10Replaced content with "mods please delete this page" < 1641275729 631826 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :all falls apart cross-system. < 1641275752 324940 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :pointers don't go past a single system < 1641275840 328749 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, it doesn't work cross-system; it is only working for internal use within a single process. < 1641275923 654380 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Although, I had seen some file formats which will write out the internal memory addresses to a file, and then when it reads them back in later will make a list of which ones match and don't match and then will automatically update them to the new memory address where they are at.) > 1641276035 80267 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07(top, height)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91577&oldid=91075 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+118) 10 > 1641276228 145278 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Generic 2D Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91578&oldid=90632 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+387) 10 > 1641276399 623431 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck extensions14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91579&oldid=77888 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+52) 10 > 1641277433 134316 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Oerjan 5* 10deleted "[[02User:Squidmanescape/Languages By Year Which are Neither Implemented Nor Jokes10]]": Author request: content was: "mods please delete this page", and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Squidmanescape|Squidmanescape]]" ([[User talk:Squidmanescape|talk]]) < 1641279215 123974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: ah > 1641280028 475063 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Countup14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91580&oldid=53335 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+55) 10 > 1641280107 883829 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Countdown14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91581&oldid=82637 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+25) 10 < 1641280628 147846 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1641281033 679287 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Countdown14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91582&oldid=91581 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+98) 10 > 1641281406 986439 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Countup14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91583&oldid=91580 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+18) 10 > 1641281701 803764 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Squidmanescape14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91584&oldid=91464 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (-141) 10 > 1641281737 907838 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Squidmanescape/Unimplemented By Date14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91585&oldid=91573 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+42) 10/* 2015 */ < 1641283161 693416 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1641283792 183909 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel JOIN #esolangs earendel :AmoreFS > 1641284049 430693 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yeetb0114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91586&oldid=90599 5* 03Yeetb01 5* (+31) 10 < 1641284534 473749 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is generative art january < 1641284653 290261 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://oeis.org/A085735 < 1641284910 817931 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1641285449 529884 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Milkman 5* 10New user account > 1641285684 237006 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91587&oldid=91534 5* 03Milkman 5* (+152) 10/* Introductions */ < 1641285747 651556 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :i don't know what he's talking about. redirection from http to https is of course 1 step too late. so it has to either be enforced by the client. a fucking 1 liner. or just don't. < 1641285762 785894 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :fuckikng hate redirection < 1641285781 144859 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :hate https too < 1641285784 249749 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :annoying as hell < 1641285824 949327 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :its really the same as http. < 1641286058 272325 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :that false ais guy didn't even mention authentification. < 1641286102 212051 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :false ais... < 1641286114 21037 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :we need better truth machines < 1641286136 213092 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh devised by User:Keymaker < 1641286138 340810 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :joke fail < 1641286252 552216 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :what < 1641286272 497152 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :my joke failed < 1641286281 304877 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :certainly. < 1641286293 497667 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :why did you say "what"? < 1641286358 370223 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Do coproducts count as control flow? < 1641286379 732528 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :why do you bring up another sock now < 1641286416 470657 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :no Corbin < 1641286476 354573 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :you understand what he means? < 1641286491 182252 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: Then I politely assert that control flow is an illusion, as it's not necessary for Turing-complete behavior. < 1641286507 952043 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :JNZ < 1641286536 297693 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :to execute lambda you need control flow, but it can be lazy or strict < 1641286548 852150 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :its when you have conditional execution paths < 1641286558 200450 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :For example, a Wang tiling has no control flow. There are implicit choices (which location to place a tile, which tile to place) but those choices are structured as a coproduct. > 1641286628 760379 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GibMeRol14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=91588 5* 03Milkman 5* (+590) 10Created page < 1641286659 339039 :Franciman!~Franciman@mx1.fracta.dev PRIVMSG #esolangs :Corbin: is control flow necessary in order to have a universal turing machine? < 1641286660 490325 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :lets make it simpler: you have a bunch of letters and symbols. in some order. < 1641286669 490850 :Franciman!~Franciman@mx1.fracta.dev PRIVMSG #esolangs :or in the case of wang tiling, a universal wang tiling method < 1641286697 824325 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :wang tiles are crazy < 1641286699 280509 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :earendel: Heh, the Post correspondence problem? Yeah, that'd work in 1D. < 1641286705 857942 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :how the hell is that turing complete < 1641286745 94904 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :letters and symbols in some order? < 1641286747 271835 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Franciman: I'm genuinely not sure. I *just* came up with this idea; it's probably bogus. > 1641286783 520728 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GibMeRol14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91589&oldid=91588 5* 03Milkman 5* (+125) 10added reason why language was created < 1641286814 905362 :Franciman!~Franciman@mx1.fracta.dev PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure < 1641286816 611726 :Franciman!~Franciman@mx1.fracta.dev PRIVMSG #esolangs :i see < 1641286816 690437 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :stop spamming around.im not very impressed. > 1641286881 951678 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91590&oldid=91543 5* 03Milkman 5* (+15) 10/* G */ < 1641286906 176536 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :use matrix or something.lol < 1641286949 269588 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :matrix ... *oooh lmao* < 1641287007 744002 :ircs!~ircs@2-111-85-72-cable.dk.customer.tdc.net JOIN #esolangs * :IRCS < 1641287052 194099 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :The matrix 4 < 1641287132 258667 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :what networks do they connect? < 1641287239 85256 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :so. what was so complicated about rewriting all addresses to https on the fly? > 1641287295 317774 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GibMeRol14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91591&oldid=91589 5* 03Milkman 5* (+17) 10 < 1641287440 936234 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :earendel: jklasdfklajfkajlsdjklflkaf < 1641287685 275709 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :is there something like ASLR for linux? < 1641287779 533555 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :it has ASLR > 1641287780 835349 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Milkman14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=91592 5* 03Milkman 5* (+412) 10Created page with "Hello! My name is James and I am a fan of writing low level stuffs and am currently writing my own OS which you can view on [https://github.com/jamesray23114/Aozora-OS github]..." < 1641287834 111015 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol < 1641287855 828167 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel PRIVMSG #esolangs :the advent of zorra < 1641291551 464497 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1641291572 271139 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I looked at https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/ and quickly got surprised because it shows only four days. New year is always weird < 1641291655 193040 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :what's weird about that < 1641291679 705224 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :does that only happen on january? < 1641291686 299554 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: is control flow necessary in order to have a universal turing machine? < 1641291686 700953 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: or then have two c++ functions, one for artist, one for meta, one for each line in the comment < 1641291753 488158 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: products or coproducts? < 1641291753 764422 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :Corbin: fnord/ fogbugz/ fnord/ projects/ tango/ wiki/ fnord fnord < 1641291770 557005 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The default index is paginated by year, so yes, it only looks short in January. < 1641291785 719133 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :aha < 1641292235 114046 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1641292245 465437 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1641292277 551253 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1641292312 907472 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1641293928 773591 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1641293942 63354 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just learned about COBOL's ALTER statement: https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/cobol-zos/4.2?topic=statements-alter-statement < 1641293956 323247 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and immediately had to log on to #esolangs and tell everyone about it < 1641293973 517100 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol < 1641293977 167889 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is the sort of thing I'd normally only expect to see in INTERCAL < 1641293983 885432 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :are you sure this is COBOL and not INTERCAL < 1641294007 225735 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :wow, I thought COME FROM was supposed to be a joke < 1641294019 217476 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :COME FROM is a joke < 1641294028 849585 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but this is of a comparable level of insanity, from a modern programmer's point of view < 1641294044 756902 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: This is the point at which I realized that I was, in fact, *not* interested in making money writing code. < 1641294068 229480 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(for the benefit of anyone logreading and who doesn't want to follow the link: ALTER modifies the program that contains it by rewriting the target of a GO TO to go to some other line) < 1641294082 628240 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :That is completely wild < 1641294114 778631 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :(The main reason COBOL programmers know about ALTER is so that they know how to remove it from legacy code with incremental refactoring.) < 1641294130 159029 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I do get the strong feeling it's discouraged nowadays :-) < 1641294140 10649 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I didn't know you were a COBOL programmer, though < 1641294142 976 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :Corbin: please get a COBOL job and change your name to Coblin < 1641294169 943175 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :No, I only learned about half the language. I get the appeal of structured records; I still like protobuf, Capn Proto, etc. But the control flow is bonkers. < 1641294223 508395 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think of COBOL as being a precursor to SQL < 1641294245 82633 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :all the data-handling stuff (which COBOL is good at) was moved to dedicated databases, all the everything else was replaced by saner languages < 1641294370 158152 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh, I wonder if INTERCAL's ABSTAIN was inspired by COBOL's ALTER < 1641294380 353413 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there can't be many cases in which data is stored in the code rather than in the data < 1641294464 535496 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Kind of surprised that INTERCAL doesn't just have ALTER. I could imagine PLEASE ALTER LABEL foo TO COME FROM bar. < 1641294491 277637 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :we need to add it < 1641294494 858279 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :INTERCAL isn't supposed to have any features from any other language < 1641294511 566600 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so existing in COBOL (which was one of the sources) would immediately rule it out < 1641294521 576183 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :a < 1641294523 118460 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :interestingly, some INTERCAL features subsequently turned up in other languages < 1641294529 639103 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :btw ais523 apparently there is a false ais < 1641294558 115603 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :most notably, INTERCAL's "select" operator subsequently ended up getting added to the x86-64 instruction set (where it's known as "PEXT") < 1641294620 768076 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :wow < 1641294679 212786 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :they also added an inverse ("PDEP") which can be used to implement mingle, although not in a single instruction < 1641294887 409370 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Corbin: incidentally, CLC-INTERCAL does have a method of replacing one *type of statement* with another, as long as they take the same types of arguments in the same order < 1641294903 796971 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I forget what it's called, but you can, e.g., replace all ABSTAIN statements with REINSTATE statements < 1641294925 33972 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've never found a use for it, but I don't write much CLC-INTERCAL < 1641295066 955741 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :looks like COBOL has a few other fun features too, but I haven't found something on the level of ALTER < 1641295118 315083 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it allows a contiguous set of struct fields to be interpreted as a new struct, even if they don't obey the usual nesting behaviour, which is a bit weird < 1641295163 256060 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. you can have the equivalent of C's struct { struct { int a; int b; }; struct { int c; int d; }} and create a field that's a structure containing the b and c fields < 1641295198 270747 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :TIL, thanks. < 1641295278 812578 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :The original inspiration for COBOL structured records was bureaucratic forms. It's a common pattern on those forms to need to take multiple different fields, sometimes from different sections, and aggregate them into a pseudo-section. < 1641295301 564003 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, this probably also explains why data types are described via their formatted string representation < 1641295351 764637 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like, you don't define "number" but "number left-padded to five digits with spaces < 1641295352 946202 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :" < 1641295373 738535 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although the implication is that this only affects I/O and the number is actually just a number internally < 1641295380 470938 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah. And then when you manipulate the number, you can (optionally?) specify the rounding mode and sigfigs. < 1641295416 397098 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ooh, apparently everything is stored as a string by default (in which case the format would matter) but there's an option to store in binary and convert for I/O < 1641295454 886479 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Gotta wonder what the hardware was like back then. COBOL predates IEEE 754; I have literally no idea how stuff was stored. < 1641295492 745280 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :based on the defaults and history of the language, I'm guessing the first couple of versions stored everything as strings just to be able to get something working < 1641295503 818437 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then more optimized ways of doing things were retrofitted later < 1641295621 20759 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe. But having been in the industry for a bit, I could also imagine that COBOL was seen as the portable interface, and each COBOL compiler emitted machine-specific number-handling code. < 1641295649 581542 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :COBOL was intended to be/become a portable language, but was originally written in a hurry and had to be somewhat redone < 1641295669 902188 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh, you can call a range of procedures that are consecutive in the source code < 1641295679 270225 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess that's consistent with the structs < 1641295679 481218 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Interesting, TIL. I don't know much about the early history other than the famous Grace Hopper folklore. < 1641295756 149795 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but trying to produce a language which allowed for portable programs seems to have been the main motivation < 1641295817 118644 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :…you can write the equivalent of BASIC's ON ERROR RESUME NEXT in COBOL < 1641295828 965952 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :presumably it hadn't been discovered to be a bad idea yet < 1641296167 155523 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Huh, how would that be done? It would take a whole paragraph, I think. It provides a fitting little path from COBOL to BASIC to PHP, the same idiom with less code each time. < 1641296291 341302 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, you have to write an exception handler, and those things have divisions of their own < 1641296313 418992 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or, not a division, it's a subdivision of the procedure divisoin < 1641296320 63215 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :called "DECLARATIVES", apparently < 1641296375 379180 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can also longjmp out, which is simultaneously less confusing and more confusing because you simply say where you're jumping to, not how to unwind the stack (this probably only works because COBOL didn't support recursion at the time…) < 1641296505 87553 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, AFAICT there was not a serious plan for how to implement an OS or even a time-slicer in COBOL. Again, this might be historical ignorance; I don't think the idea of systems programming was a thing yet. < 1641296593 886878 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the reason I was looking up COBOL in the first place was because I was reading a discussion about the first OS to be implemented in something other than assembly language < 1641296625 690713 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and apparently it was written in PL/I, which postdates COBOL and borrows a lot of syntax from it (including ALTER, apparently), it's basically a cross between COBOL and FORTRAN < 1641296812 526759 :u0_a391!~u0_a391@2600:380:a400:48c:e872:48ef:7ec9:1791 JOIN #esolangs * :u0_a391 < 1641297049 70745 :Kit!~u0_a391@cpe-76-190-178-139.neo.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1641297279 587451 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :computed COME FROM is a joke. ordinary COME FROM is just weird syntax. < 1641297304 152942 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, ordinary COME FROM is also a joke < 1641297354 931558 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the history's at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COMEFROM < 1641297361 838806 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: does ALTER work in a way that you can tell in compile time which goto statements may need to be modified, and which target labels they can point to? < 1641297370 536632 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because if so then it's not too bad < 1641297412 66648 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :then it's just ordinary COME FROM plus ABSTAIN FROM level syntax, not computed COME FROM or computed ABSTAIN < 1641297442 420071 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: yes, but you'd have to scan the entire source code to find what modifications could be made < 1641297472 952408 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(also, apparently many COBOL implementations did actually implement it with self-modifying code rather than a jump table) < 1641297480 434331 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"I get the appeal of structured records" => we have SQL instead of them now, don't we? < 1641297540 703088 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think SQL has taken over as the most mainstream language for doing the things that COBOL was good at < 1641297550 824461 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: Think protobuf-style programming with big data. Say, processing video files. It's a structured record, and one of the fields happens to be way too big to fit into address space, but you can still iterate over the rest of the record and manipulate it. < 1641297587 709064 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Corbin: INTERCAL can't have ALTER, it would make subroutine returns too easy. < 1641297594 494319 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although, in a way, SQL's control flow is even worse than COBOL's (it's TC, at least in common implementations, but normally inadvisable to write large programs in it – normally it's used as a DSL for programs in a saner language) < 1641297607 422545 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: NEXT … RESUME #1 is incredibly easy as it is < 1641297621 30447 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's like the only form of control flow in INTERCAL that's actually sensible < 1641297646 745550 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I suspect this was implemented in such an easy way so that the standard library would work, making it possible to actually do things like addition < 1641297678 985682 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ooh, a computed RESUME-alike is apparently possible in PHP (something I discovered quite recently) < 1641297686 317674 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can use a computed break statement that breaks out of a variable number of loops < 1641297845 509419 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"huh, you can call a range of procedures that are consecutive in the source code" => yes, https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Zzo38/Programming_languages_with_unusual_features#COBOL mentions that < 1641298087 581444 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it mentions ALTER too < 1641298094 47146 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'd read it before, but hadn't appreciated the implications < 1641298163 389570 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :perhaps the people who invented the language were used to programming in machine code in a non-reentrant way where modifying code for indexing or indirect jumps was common < 1641298233 387379 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :COBOL didn't support recursion for ages < 1641298271 967395 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in fact, the semantics of a procedure call appear to be indistinguishable from "inject a command to goto the next line at the end of the procedure, jump to it, then remove the injected command upon returnign" < 1641298293 535910 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(this is observable if you attempt to call procedures recursively) < 1641298304 458694 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this makes me think that it was originally actually implemented like that, rather than using a stack < 1641298333 35853 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(probably with the goto there permanently, just going to the next procedure in sequences so that range-calls worked) < 1641298547 153146 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I was recently looking at the https://esolangs.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer , and its instruction set seems modern in that it lets you do any indexing or indirection without self-modifying code, in multiply ways. This is probably because the code usually lives in a ROM, which is much bigger than the RAM because of hardware constraints, < 1641298547 638726 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though it can actually execute programs in the RAM with only a few limitations. < 1641298580 317079 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :IIRC computers in space are very vulnerable to bitflips < 1641298597 390401 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and executing from RAM would be dangerous in that context, as just about anything might happen if a bitflip hit a command before it was about to execute < 1641298605 894462 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so allowing as much as possible to be done in ROM would be safer < 1641298734 588678 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure, not just bitflips but a stray pointer could overwrite something in RAM, since they have arbitrary indexing (not quite since the RAM too is bank-switched). But I still think it's mostly that the ROM is much larger capacity, because the same capacity takes less physical space and mass. < 1641298776 268015 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But allowing to execute from the RAM still makes sense because they may want to change something in the program when it's too late to redo the ROM. < 1641298925 849555 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, it could be a method of recovering from bugs in the program < 1641299059 2607 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And IIUC some constant parameters of the mission are stored in the RAM, probably because they're too late to write to the ROM, eg. determined shortly before launch, though these are probably only data rather than code. < 1641299085 336577 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wonder how NASA's ROMs are programmed < 1641299094 620849 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Right. The ROM was hand-verified but had to be hand-packed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_rope_memory < 1641299120 318978 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was wondering if it was something more hardwired than fusible-link < 1641299136 174102 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: it was hardwired, with something like a knitting machine, < 1641299150 149493 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :weaving wires inside or outside rings depending on the value of each bit, < 1641299191 567395 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :where there's several wires per ring so when a ring is activated with x and y address lines, a whole word is read simultaneously > 1641299198 939304 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07HellLang14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=91593 5* 03Milkman 5* (+8167) 10created page and added a lot of data, will work on it later < 1641299273 212936 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sending the two address lines together flips the magnetism in the large core ring, only in this case the magnetism of the core ring itself doesn't store the data, instead when you flip it, that induces current in those among the sense lines that are woven inside that ring and not the other sense lines, so you read a word that way\ < 1641299313 846280 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it somehow comes out as more space efficient than core memory which stores only one bit per ring, though I don't understand how, < 1641299320 319047 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh wow, so it's like regular magnetic core memory, but some of the cores are missing entirely < 1641299334 176796 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and you find out if the core is there by trying to write it and seeing if anything happens < 1641299360 95206 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because IIUC the rings for the core rope are much larger, and that should more than cancel out the increased number of bits per rings < 1641299371 987570 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"normal" magnetic core memory is kind-of finicky, the original implementation required four wires through every core (but it was golfed down to three at some point) < 1641299393 768377 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it relies a lot on using currents that are only just strong enough to flip a ring if added together, so that you were only affecting a single ring < 1641299398 751279 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yes, but this way you get more than one bit per ring in a core rope, which isn't really possible in core memory < 1641299411 572298 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with this ROM version, you can just flip an entire line as strongly as you like and you won't do any damage < 1641299467 572983 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's possible you don't even need a sense line – just flip the vertical address lines and see which of the horizontal address lines respond < 1641299472 495119 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(or vice versa) < 1641299479 780647 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :basically integrated circuits were really new at the time, and only had a few transitors per package, so it was kind of a risky decision to use them as logic in the AGC, and it contributed to hastening the integrated circuit industry < 1641299513 683042 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and because of this, IIUC there are zero flip-flops made of transistors in the computer, so even registers use core memory, thoguh probably simpler core memory with no separate x and y addressing < 1641299520 647190 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh I see, a fusible-link ROM needs some sort of diode to prevent the links just connecting all the wires to each oher < 1641299543 162188 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though also IIUC there are also some bits stored in relays, but that's more about the IO devices than the CPU < 1641299606 62792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN #esolangs oerjan :Ørjan Johansen < 1641299632 577771 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yes, and so would a keyboard if you would want to allow to sense any set of keys pressed together completely at the same time, but that is expensive so most keyboards just don't handle that quite correctly, and the electronic is fast enough that you usually don't press keys quite at the same time, and they put the keys to the right rows and < 1641299633 97644 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :columns that in practice this doesn't cause problems < 1641299646 813530 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :for modern keyboards that is < 1641299725 871316 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :when I was younger, pressing too many keys at once on the keyboard would cause the CPU speaker to beep < 1641299741 358790 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or, motherboard speaker, I don't think it's actually on the CPU < 1641299762 189246 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I assumed this was because there were too many keys being pressed for the keyboard to reliably read them all < 1641299789 160935 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and IIUC in the 80s, that's why ROM chips cost money each time you change the content, but it was cheap to make many copies once the content was fixed, because the ROM ICs are made with a photographic method similar to PCBs now, only there the mask sets not just wires but transistors too\ < 1641299824 9371 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :in the 90s too to some extent < 1641299850 651829 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but since magnetic and optical disks sucked, it was still worth to make lots of ROMs for software < 1641299881 885388 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we've had reprogrammable ROMs for a while, but it wouldn't surprise me if fixed-content ROMs were still cheaper in sufficiently large quantities < 1641299937 260301 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I believe this issue got solved *before* non-small reprogrammable roms got cheap enough, because RAM became cheap enough that you could load most of the program from a magnetic or optical disk to RAM and then it was fast < 1641299986 928657 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but even nowadays games have massive loading times > 1641300010 556355 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Apollo Guidance Computer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91594&oldid=90645 5* 03Corbin 5* (+10) 10/* Hardware */ Rearrange some sentences and add a link to WP. < 1641300127 543213 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yes, but that's because the size of the games expanded as graphics cards became more capable; plus I hear that on the Nintendo Switch, games load slow if you load them directly from the external SD card that they're sold on, but fast if you install them from the SD card to the internal SSD < 1641300154 917057 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, consoles have internal SSDs nowadays in order to try to reduce loading < 1641300171 185122 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or internal hard disk, I don't really know, it's irrelevant\ < 1641300184 164735 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the point is that the SD card that the game is sold on can be slow to reduce costs < 1641300193 183777 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I actually stopped buying consoles at around the time they gained complex operating systems < 1641300205 936222 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to me the advantage was that the console only plays which game is inside it and isn't otherwise stateful < 1641300215 45807 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and you should just install games to the internal storage. that's limited by the internal storage's capacity, but you can uninstall games so it's not a big problem. < 1641300221 727992 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I never *started* to buy consoles < 1641300223 728045 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and if the console is going to start being stateful I may as well just use a PC < 1641300250 476539 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the only console I own is half of two Game Boys < 1641300294 220906 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(though of course my PC can emulate more old consoles if I download the right software) < 1641300351 825233 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually this was also about the same time that games started seriously adding more online features, which also drove me away from them < 1641300443 988358 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: around what console are you talking about? < 1641300452 652960 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 PRIVMSG #esolangs :DS→3DS transition < 1641300462 756778 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see < 1641300607 78053 :u0_a391!~u0_a391@2600:380:a400:48c:e872:48ef:7ec9:1791 NICK :Kit > 1641301287 731361 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07HellLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91595&oldid=91593 5* 03Milkman 5* (+160) 10/* Language overview */ > 1641301707 794546 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07HellLang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91596&oldid=91595 5* 03Milkman 5* (+36) 10/* Language overview */ > 1641301883 731515 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07HellLang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91597&oldid=91596 5* 03Milkman 5* (+140) 10/* Scopes */ > 1641301923 288 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07HellLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91598&oldid=91597 5* 03Milkman 5* (+68) 10/* Language overview */ > 1641302020 306204 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07HellLang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91599&oldid=91598 5* 03Milkman 5* (+24) 10/* Scopes */ < 1641302509 579415 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1641303573 910573 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1641304295 264972 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.61 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1641304456 880040 :monoxane!~monoxane@user/monoxane QUIT :Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds) < 1641304482 130549 :monoxane!~monoxane@user/monoxane JOIN #esolangs monoxane :monoxane > 1641305347 826761 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Typespam14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91600&oldid=73809 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (-17) 10Corrected the Hello World example which would not print the character o and omitted the space betwixt the two words, and improved the example's formatting. > 1641305476 700243 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Typespam14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91601&oldid=91600 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+271) 10Added a cat program example and a hyperlink to my implementation on GitHub, and changed the tag Unimplemented to Implemented. > 1641305521 660870 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tic Tac Toe14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91602&oldid=91498 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (-2) 10Changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented. > 1641305621 574204 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Typespam14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91603&oldid=91601 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+8) 10Changed the title and hyperlink of the Cat section to Cat program. < 1641305641 37079 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1641306467 387340 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1641306855 60770 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1641308263 32008 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1641308951 829235 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1641309355 468728 :ircs!~ircs@2-111-85-72-cable.dk.customer.tdc.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1641310122 683473 :Everything!~Everythin@37.115.210.35 QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1641313152 633480 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03T3RRY 5* 10New user account > 1641313355 93058 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91604&oldid=91587 5* 03T3RRY 5* (+164) 10/* Introductions */ < 1641314457 956629 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :half of two Game Boys? < 1641314492 756719 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :why not get 1 whole one? I think that will work better < 1641314835 470636 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: Two Game Boys that me and my brother got when we were children, so I and my brother own them shared. It's not defined which one is whose, and if one breaks (though this is unlikely now) then we'll both own half rather than one of us own one and the other zero. < 1641314873 375411 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The carts do have a nominal owner though, and I have the better ones. > 1641314947 437104 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Template:Infobox proglang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91605&oldid=87037 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+49) 10Add Category:Languages as includeonly to autocategorize languages with this template as languages < 1641314999 899260 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :ahh that makes sense < 1641315001 505202 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs ::) < 1641315007 228514 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :i have 3 gameboys i think, one is color < 1641315020 188036 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :they seem good for messing with the hardware but i never did any mods < 1641315028 252998 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :like changing the battery, or adding lights > 1641315050 761253 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07HellLang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91606&oldid=91599 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+32) 10Add category, WIP < 1641315321 526159 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't care about the Game Boys themselves except as a means to verify that the carts works. I have a todo for more than a year to replace the batteries in the carts that have them, to avoid corrosion, since the carts are like 25 years old now. I've even bought replacement batteries more than half a year ago. < 1641315347 68071 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :why do you care that carts work? < 1641315381 106631 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I want to preserve the carts, and the Game Boy lets me test that I replaced the battery correctly. < 1641315389 255900 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok < 1641315394 789409 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :the roms have been dumped probably < 1641315399 658360 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure < 1641315411 674419 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I feel like the carts should be preserved anyway < 1641315429 511012 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and replacing the battery every few decades is an easy and cheap enough way to do that < 1641315462 666678 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :none of these carts with batteries are particularly rare, so yes, the roms have been dumped (the less common carts have no battery that is) < 1641315736 97560 :u0_a391!~u0_a391@64.85.173.130 JOIN #esolangs * :u0_a391 < 1641315957 556534 :Kit!~u0_a391@2600:380:a400:48c:e872:48ef:7ec9:1791 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1641316208 516721 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I own the entirety of one Game Boy, and maybe 4-8 game cartridges for it. < 1641316222 431568 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hypothetically, anyway. I'm not 100% sure where it is. < 1641316283 375003 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: Libraries of ROMs come from people who want to preserve their carts. < 1641316287 559069 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm also not sure where one of the two Game Boys that I halfway own is. But one that I halfway own \is enough. < 1641316304 987119 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Luckily I do seem to have all the carts, or maybe all but one. < 1641316344 228418 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Corbin: yes, though those are the carts where preserving is easier because there's no battery in the cart < 1641316388 673793 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think I had Super Mario Lands 1 and 2, a tennis game, that one balloon game, the Duck Tales game, Tetris, that Qix game, and maybe a golf game. < 1641316398 499 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(If you live in Europe and want to ROM dump Game Boy Tetris Blast and have the equipment for it, feel free to contact me.) < 1641316415 829489 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: what's the one balloon game? Bubble ghost? < 1641316448 336835 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The one where you're a person (a girl?) floating with two balloons, and then you can pop one and get by with one, and maybe even if that pops you might continue with some platforming perhaps. < 1641316456 66468 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Apparently "Balloon kid" < 1641316459 407338 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Balloon Kid, yes. < 1641316477 408181 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've never heard of that, but the internet has. < 1641316579 558805 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I do own a DS Lite as well, and that one I know where it is. Those are the only two consoles I've owned. Assuming handhelds count. < 1641316927 155340 :u0_a391!~u0_a391@64.85.173.130 NICK :kit < 1641317279 921048 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1641317888 431384 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PixelatedStarfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91607&oldid=91549 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+46) 10/* Unimplemented Languages */ > 1641318252 810141 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fetus14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=91608 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+378) 10Created page with "[[Fetus]] is a [[Starstuff]] language. It uses a [[Starstuff]] compiler to convert any file into runnable [[Astridec]] code. Apart from that, there is not much more to say abo..." > 1641318449 693300 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fetus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91609&oldid=91608 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+237) 10 > 1641318497 332656 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PixelatedStarfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91610&oldid=91607 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+26) 10/* In Chronological Order */ > 1641318533 373371 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fetus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91611&oldid=91609 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+30) 10 > 1641318616 93893 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fetus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91612&oldid=91611 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+0) 10 < 1641321257 316414 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I like the tsume shogi game on the Game Boy. But, I just use the emulation, which also include some games that might not be released on the cartridge, and modified versions. I do have Nintendo DS but the L and R button is broken. < 1641321318 301885 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's cool. I like goro goro shogi also < 1641321602 88194 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :But, for the hand held computing I like TI-92 which has a full keyboard, home screen with calculation, programming function, graphing function. Unfortunately is slow and no colours/sounds. If it can be done with colours (including plotting multiple functions at once you can distinguished by colours), date/time, assembly language, RS-232, also being command-line with calculations like TI-92 does, might be better a bit. < 1641322091 302985 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1641322341 637425 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :If you know about some of the unusual features of COBOL, then you might also to enter them into the list of the programming languages with unusual features, that I had written about. < 1641323158 84384 :vyv!~vyv@bras-vprn-nrbaon0452w-lp130-16-76-68-64-112.dsl.bell.ca JOIN #esolangs vyv :vyv verver < 1641323448 662764 :ircs!~ircs@2-111-85-72-cable.dk.customer.tdc.net JOIN #esolangs * :IRCS < 1641323782 816311 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel JOIN #esolangs earendel :AmoreFS < 1641323943 277453 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1641325235 584908 :u0_a391!~u0_a391@2600:380:a400:48c:cd2a:f3c2:31a6:1f35 JOIN #esolangs * :u0_a391 < 1641325256 32034 :u0_a391!~u0_a391@2600:380:a400:48c:cd2a:f3c2:31a6:1f35 NICK :Kit_ < 1641325473 77852 :kit!~u0_a391@64.85.173.130 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1641325847 706464 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91613&oldid=91396 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+6) 10You can now set logical and visual animations independently in Free Hero Mesh (that wasn't true at the time this document was originally written, but it is now), although they are normally set together. < 1641327269 67671 :u0_a391!~u0_a391@2603-6010-a141-6fa3-950d-0150-5311-7e6b.res6.spectrum.com JOIN #esolangs * :u0_a391 < 1641327335 844262 :u0_a391!~u0_a391@2603-6010-a141-6fa3-950d-0150-5311-7e6b.res6.spectrum.com NICK :Kit < 1641327437 559728 :Kit_!~u0_a391@2600:380:a400:48c:cd2a:f3c2:31a6:1f35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1641328116 508092 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Astridec14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=91614 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+730) 10Nested loops? < 1641328653 50525 :Noisytoot_!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron < 1641330981 48405 :Noisytoot_!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot NICK :Noisytoot > 1641331789 213451 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Footsteps14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91615&oldid=79575 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+36) 10/* Implementations */ unhide overflow > 1641331802 779245 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Footsteps14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91616&oldid=91615 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10/* Python 2 */ scroll > 1641331916 388179 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:1L a1.png10]]": Output 1 when TL0 = 0 > 1641332183 381600 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07File:1L a1.png14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91618&oldid=91617 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+0) 10Oops > 1641332256 436916 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:1L a2.png10]]": Output 1 when TL0 = 1 > 1641332275 76868 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07File:1L a2.png14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91620&oldid=91619 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+0) 10What > 1641332367 689776 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:1L a3.png10]]": Output 1 when TL0 = 1 > 1641332426 593989 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:1L a4.png10]]": Output 1 when TL0 = 1 > 1641332467 739509 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07File:1L a3.png14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91623&oldid=91621 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+0) 10Ah > 1641332733 215942 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[071L a14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=91624&oldid=77485 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+810) 10Been a while since I edited this wiki > 1641333389 941500 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Kernel14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=91625 5* 03Corbin 5* (+481) 10Stub a page about Shutt's language. < 1641334438 37270 :vyv!~vyv@bras-vprn-nrbaon0452w-lp130-16-76-68-64-112.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Quit: Konversation terminated! < 1641336692 520474 :immibis!~hexchat@62.156.144.218 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1641337012 87605 :immibis!~hexchat@62.156.144.218 JOIN #esolangs immibis :realname < 1641338126 720222 :earendel!uid498179@user/earendel QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1641338217 716501 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1641339120 66009 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1641339456 765522 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…