01:19:47 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ethan T. Stanger * New user account 01:30:27 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92000&oldid=91958 * Ethan T. Stanger * (+325) /* Introductions */ 01:31:02 [[Talk:Verbose]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92001&oldid=37496 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+240) 01:39:38 [[Talk:Suicide]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92002&oldid=40414 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+41) Display title 01:40:28 [[Suicide]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92003&oldid=79616 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+36) 02:11:21 -!- archenoth has joined. 02:14:17 -!- Oshawott has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:28:05 -!- immibis_ has joined. 02:28:36 -!- immibis has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:42:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:43:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:52:06 -!- razetime has joined. 03:24:23 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * IGottic * New user account 03:28:09 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92004&oldid=92000 * IGottic * (+33) /* Introductions */ 03:28:22 [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92005&oldid=91439 * IGottic * (+10) Added "sus" 03:34:16 -!- eli_oat has joined. 03:47:47 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:48:06 [[Sus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92006 * IGottic * (+5587) Created page with "'''Sus''' is an esoteric programming language that is turing complete; it is an alternative BrainFuck. This was something iGottic made in free time originally on the Roblox pl..." 03:50:09 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92007&oldid=91878 * IGottic * (+10) /* S */ 03:52:23 [[Sus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92008&oldid=92006 * IGottic * (+7) 03:54:38 [[Sus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92009&oldid=92008 * IGottic * (+18) 03:55:12 [[Sus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92010&oldid=92009 * IGottic * (+1) 03:56:41 [[Talk:Sus]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92011 * IGottic * (+18) Created page with "so sus on gor " 03:58:32 -!- eli_oat has quit (Quit: eli_oat). 04:03:49 -!- kit_ten has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:05:32 -!- kit_ten has joined. 04:08:08 -!- imode has joined. 04:11:04 [[User:IGottic]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92012 * IGottic * (+54) Created page with "Heya! Find more about me a https://miagobble.github.io" 05:26:24 -!- monoxane2 has joined. 05:33:06 -!- Trieste_ has joined. 05:35:11 -!- razetime has quit (*.net *.split). 05:35:11 -!- Trieste has quit (*.net *.split). 05:35:11 -!- haavard has quit (*.net *.split). 05:35:12 -!- monoxane has quit (*.net *.split). 05:35:12 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split). 05:35:35 -!- monoxane2 has changed nick to monoxane. 05:36:31 -!- Trieste_ has changed nick to Trieste. 05:40:13 -!- razetime has joined. 05:41:23 -!- haavard has joined. 05:46:56 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:19:43 -!- tromp has joined. 06:23:25 -!- razetime has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:29:36 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:00:45 -!- tromp has joined. 07:11:46 Turing Tumble has undefined behavior. I'd make a comment about how "it really is a computer, huh", but UB is more of a language thing and TT is more of a hardware simulation 07:12:44 (It's not allowed to have a ball drop without it being caught on the next row down) 07:49:37 -!- BarryNL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:52:37 -!- BarryNL has joined. 08:19:24 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:31:35 -!- BarryNL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:34:08 -!- BarryNL has joined. 08:46:05 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 08:46:37 -!- BarryNL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:48:10 -!- BarryNL has joined. 09:06:43 -!- BarryNL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:07:24 -!- BarryNL has joined. 09:34:44 In a draft document I had written, I had (currently) assigned code page number 458752 for the CLC-INTERCAL EBCDIC (although this is currently a draft so it may be changed before it is final). 09:38:58 (Although I could not find the documentation, when I did manage to read it, I think it said it is not the same as any IBM code page, but each code matches at least one, or something like that?) 09:45:56 -!- tromp has joined. 09:50:00 -!- __monty__ has joined. 10:36:53 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 10:38:03 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:39:42 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 11:05:05 -!- ^[ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:06:44 -!- ^[ has joined. 11:18:37 -!- BarryNL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:36:19 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 11:40:37 -!- perlbot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:40:37 -!- simcop2387 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:50:53 -!- perlbot has joined. 11:52:56 -!- simcop2387 has joined. 12:10:01 -!- kit-ten has joined. 12:14:23 -!- kit_ten has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:42:48 [[Sus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92013&oldid=92010 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-41) /* How it's Written */ Add missing command to table 12:46:30 [[Sus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92014&oldid=92013 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+98) /* Running the code */ Add categories 13:03:28 int-e: never mind about the 263 bit; i figured out the issue 13:43:44 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Quit: see you later). 13:44:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:47:18 -!- eli_oat has joined. 14:09:10 [[User:WriteOnly]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92015&oldid=84493 * WriteOnly * (+14) 14:11:52 [[User:WriteOnly]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92016&oldid=92015 * WriteOnly * (+126) 14:14:54 -!- kit_ten has joined. 14:18:17 -!- kit-ten has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:32:13 I have an idea for a custom lego piece to 3d print, it looks like 2 flat 1x2 pieces joined, but it is actually a single solid piece. It cannot be split apart. Do you like this? 14:33:50 `? this 14:33:54 This is something people on the channel like to talk about. We're often unsure what this is, though. Nobody likes this. 14:34:37 lol 14:35:26 -!- SGautam has joined. 14:42:57 like two flat 1x2's stacked on top of each other (so like, a 2/3rd high fullsze 1x2)? 14:48:21 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:48:57 https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KmP0uiCGzpA/maxresdefault.jpg this 14:51:19 right, kinda cursed, not sure I see the benefit vs just two flat 1x2's tbh :p 14:53:41 AIUI a 2/3rd high thing exists now. Not sure at which width/depth combinations, though. 14:53:56 Someone was complaining about the new Sonic set not using it. 14:54:37 (It's got like a checkerboard pattern made out of a lot of regular flat pieces as stacks of 2 of each color, since I guess that's more or less square?) 14:54:37 the idea is to hurt peoples nails 14:54:45 because they will try to get it apart but acn't 14:55:02 or even maybe cut their gums on it 14:57:52 . o O ( riv is xkcd's black hat guy? ) 14:58:39 riv: i may have to kill you for this hth 14:58:41 my hobby: inventing illegal lego pieces 14:58:43 lol 15:01:28 * oerjan has nail and gum issues 15:03:19 -!- tromp has joined. 15:03:31 soon, you wont be the only one 15:12:16 what timezone is used by things that travel between timezones? 15:12:21 like a fast plane or something 15:13:27 if time travel is invented, will we also need date zones? 15:19:06 tromp: I wasn't going to be drawn into abstraction elimination territory anyway. 15:21:17 how about minimal CL bases territory? 15:21:23 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:26:21 (I never really liked it (well, trying to optimize the result size), and BLC alleviates all need for that.) 15:30:58 I've dabbled a bit in minimal BLC-size bases territory without success. 15:32:54 we found a provably minimal (in blc-size) basis. 15:33:11 :O 15:33:19 what is it? 15:33:53 it's VERY close to S. just with an extra K thrown in 15:34:09 \x\y\z.x z(y (Kz)) 15:34:44 in other words, \x\y\z.x z(y (\_.z)) 15:35:01 of size 26 15:35:19 oh that's nice! its even a single term 15:35:40 that's a really cool discovery 15:35:44 does it have a name? 15:35:51 only 3 bits more than S, where K is 7 bits 15:36:22 it *ought* to be called ioata. but ppl already used that name for the much bigger \x.x S K :( 15:36:46 btw, here's a fun fact: 15:37:35 with up to 16 of this combinator, you can form at least 2200336 different lambda normal forms 15:37:50 guess how many you can form with up to 16 iotas? 15:38:00 I guess it is a lot more 15:38:11 you couldn't be more wrong! 15:38:14 haha 15:38:26 guess again! 15:38:34 the exact same number 15:38:47 no, it's way less 15:38:50 guess again:) 15:38:55 I'm hoping it's like fifteen. 15:39:36 tromp: I see. So my naive approach could've found that in principle, it would just have required, uh, months maybe of computing power. 15:39:39 well, it is more than 15:) 15:39:43 (And it wouldn't prove optimality) 15:40:15 any1 want to guess ? 15:40:23 no hth 15:41:02 here's the shocker: only 244 (that we could find) 15:41:32 in this measure, iota was the worst possible single point basis we could find 15:41:39 fancy 15:42:19 [[Quiner]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92017&oldid=91950 * Umnikos * (+181) Add a link to an interpreter 15:42:20 its only redeeming property it having short derivations for S and K 15:42:29 hah 15:43:14 let's call the other one alpha 15:43:43 it takes 11 alphas to make K 15:43:54 and 16 to make S 15:44:43 although you can make the equally useful S' = \x\y\z. y z (x z) in 15 15:45:53 I x = x S K, so I I = I S K = S S K K = S K (K K). i'm guessing that all those Ks make it very easy for things to get deleted so many expressions become equal 15:45:58 er 15:45:58 S' = \x\y\z.y z (x z) is produced a bit sooner. 15:46:08 I may not have been the best choice of letter there :P 15:46:27 you can make an alpha self interpreter in 249 alpha's; potentially much less 15:46:37 * J x = x S K, so J J = J S K = S S K K = S K (K K). i'm guessing that all those Ks make it very easy for things to get deleted so many expressions become equal 15:46:38 [[User:WriteOnly]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92018&oldid=92016 * WriteOnly * (+2) 15:46:48 (S' + K are also complete) 15:47:35 yes, that's what i meant by equally useful. you can do bracket abstraction with S' just as well 15:48:37 tromp: Interesting. Could we say that iota is optimized for a short basis and useful short programs, whereas alpha is optimized for a short basis and short normal forms? 15:49:02 J J x = S K (K K) x = K x (...) = x 15:49:08 another size 26 basis is alpha'= \x\y\z.y z (x (Kz)) 15:49:48 duh 15:49:55 it's about half as good as alpha. making 1220869 lambda terms up to size 16 15:50:14 (not exactly, but roughly) 15:50:26 or that J J = I 15:50:40 ioata doesn't make short programs 15:50:53 unless your program is S or K :) 15:50:58 are you misspelling iota? 15:51:15 -!- kit_ten has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:52:18 11 alphas to make a K? 15:52:21 -!- kit_ten has joined. 15:52:43 another is \x\y\z. y (Kz) (x z) from which you can generate {T,K,B,W} which I think is abasis 15:53:09 yes, K = A(A A)(A(A A)A A A A A) 15:53:39 I have ``0`00``````0`0000000 :P 15:53:43 -!- earendel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 15:54:10 yep, same thing 15:54:54 4 possibilities, apparently 15:55:00 btw, \x\y\z. x (Kz) (y z) doesn't seem to work at all as a basis 15:55:35 we only managed to generate F and I (among target terms) 15:55:59 where F = False = \x\y.y 15:56:40 the REAL challenge is finding minimal expression for C = \x\y\z. x z y 15:57:01 as it needs a HUGE intermediate lambda term 15:58:38 J I = I S K = S K = K I, which also would swallow up things 15:59:22 so i don't think it's surprising that iota gives few distinct terms 16:03:58 oops, I meant the minimal expression for T = \x\y. y x 16:07:50 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * NR * New user account 16:11:00 tromp: you can swap x and y though... which gives S' at size 11, K at size 15, but no S up to size 16 16:14:53 (S' + K works because of S = ```S'`S'KS'`KS') 16:15:36 you mean S' from 11 alpha' ? 16:16:05 i thought it took 13 16:16:48 Yes, it's 13. 16:17:19 (copying is hard) 16:18:51 have you found T from lpha? 16:19:04 No. 16:19:13 I haven't tried either :-P 16:19:30 try. i'm curious what you find 16:20:09 is there a size limit on your intermediate lambda terms? 16:23:00 not really 16:23:23 oh, then it won't be a challenge for you 16:23:24 but there is a cost limit which is connected to size 16:24:17 size 16, hmm 16:24:29 ````0````0`0`000`00``00000`0`00 16:24:30 it's less than 16 16:24:30 ​```0````0`0`000`00``00000`0`00? No such file or directory 16:24:41 (and 4 others) 16:24:54 sorry HackEso 16:25:07 lol 16:26:24 tromp: hah, I was checking for S 16:26:45 size 13. 16:26:57 (and unique) 16:29:27 tromp: I have really horrible code which makes me do this: https://paste.debian.net/1226868/ 16:29:41 yep 16:30:04 , did you see the size of the lambda term from the middle size 9 part? 16:30:25 I don't see any intermediate sizes 16:31:16 i mean this expression A(A A)A(A(A A)A)A 16:31:46 which is A(A A)A applied to itself 16:31:49 Hmm, alpha' doesn't make T any more concise at all 16:32:45 no;alpha' makes for more concise S' only it seems 16:33:05 most are longer 16:33:16 in some cases much longer 16:33:29 like for \x\y. x y x 16:33:32 size 16 for T 16:33:53 16 alpha' 16:33:56 ? 16:34:14 that's one I hadn't found myself yet 16:35:00 I found V = \x\y\z. z x y the hardest of simple combinators to find 16:37:04 Oh, ```0`0`0`00`0```0```00`00000`00 is \x y z. y x z, not \x y. y x. 16:37:39 (where 0 = alpha') 16:39:15 So no, there's no size 16 T within my resource constraints (1000 reduction steps, whatever that is precisely in that virtual machine)) 16:40:38 -!- eli_oat has quit (Quit: eli_oat). 16:41:24 i don't limit reduction steps; i only limit expanding steps where the term grows in size 16:41:58 -!- eli_oat has joined. 16:42:43 and then i limit it linearly in substitution occurances 16:43:17 well, that one is eta equivalent 16:44:33 I have my "usual" context-capturing implementation (which could be understood as doing delayed substitutions I think), https://paste.debian.net/1226872/ 16:45:19 So whatever exponential blowup is there is hidden by sharing. 16:50:30 -!- kit_ten has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:50:41 -!- kit_ten has joined. 16:54:00 that looks pretty efficient. but with whnf's you cannot eliminate duplicates? 16:55:16 if exponentially many terms all evaluate to the same nf, you'd keep track of them all ? 16:55:42 in their whnf... 16:56:32 Well, I don't tabulate at all. 16:59:31 basically, all other parts are horribly inefficient 17:00:20 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 17:07:32 i see... 17:14:26 even the enumeration of terms... I should've known 17:15:03 (ghc floated out a humongous list) 17:15:34 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:16:14 resulting in the program growing to 10G for size 18 terms, tsk. 17:17:43 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 17:24:20 Anyway I'll let it burn CPU for S and T in terms of alpha' for a bit longer... I will not look for other combinators. 17:27:21 yes, my searches barely reach size 17 before running out of memory at 19G 17:27:57 Could a more directed or type-driven search be done? Or maybe you've got a more clever pruning scheme already. 17:28:11 but that's still keeping all unique lambda normal forms from alpba terms up to size 15 17:30:26 well, this is all in untyped calculus, so i don't see how types could help 17:31:48 int-e:could you please add your program to the repo? i'd like to search for some specific terms myself 17:34:24 -!- eli_oat has quit (Quit: eli_oat). 17:36:38 So this should be a proper T: `````00`0``00`0`0``00000`0`0``0``0000 17:37:28 (0 = alpha') 17:42:38 tromp: https://gist.github.com/int-e/2f4b39727cc51dfe07b3b50d0d6c6f0e ...I don't want it in the repo in that shape 17:44:45 ok;thanks:) 17:44:59 -!- SGautam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:47:27 but I did fix the tree generation (`gen2`) to not explode in memory usage... though the proper fix would be to use difference lists. 17:48:18 Ah, S and T of size 18 respectively: ````000`0`0``00`00`0```0``000``0000 and `````0`0000````0``00`0`00`0``000000 17:48:19 [1,2,3]+[4,5,6] in javascript, is '1,2,34,5,6' 17:48:31 what is the alpha combinator. 17:48:44 (found with 1000 fuel; 100 fuel wasn't enough) 17:50:11 alpha = \x\y\z. x z (y (Kz)) 17:50:27 a one point basis 17:51:13 and alpha' swaps the inner x and y (or the outer ones; same thing modulo alpha) 17:55:35 -!- eli_oat has joined. 17:57:09 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis. 18:04:27 tromp: So in what sense is this provably minimal? Does that depend on limiting intermediate term sizes too or is everything smaller ruled out by various syntactic criteria? 18:05:48 i'm assuming that in addition to K, a basis needs a 3 argument function 18:06:55 this one adds only 3 bits to S. adding 2 bits only allows KS which is not a basis 18:08:47 there must be one lambda whose arg is dropped, one whose argument is duplicated, and i assume two that are preserved 18:10:11 Hmm. Okay, that doesn't wholly convince me. I mean, BCKW is larger, but the individual combionators have size 19, 19, 7, 15, all of which are smaller than S. 18:10:43 yes, S and K are smaller than alpha.but their sumsize is more 18:11:16 i claim alpha has minimal sumsize 18:11:17 W (which duplicates) and any 10 sized combinator that erases, hmm 18:11:28 (would be smaller) 18:12:04 K plus all 2 argument preserving/duplicating combs are not universal, right? 18:12:48 that's why you have B and C in addition 18:13:15 Well, I don't know. 18:13:18 i agree that needs more proof:) 18:14:19 "probably minimal" I can agree with anyway, and that's just a plausible typo away. 18:14:26 ;) 18:15:27 and at least it's more organic that iota, that's something 18:16:47 the Greek letter iota is the smallest letter of its alphabet 18:17:12 so this is more deserving of the name iota... 18:18:01 i'd have to convince chris barker though:) 18:19:06 21 years 18:19:10 call it iota' :-P 18:19:40 well iota' should be the name for alpha' :) 18:19:41 . o O ( or just prime, which is smaller than iota ) 18:20:11 ` for app and ' for alpha? 18:20:12 ​? Permission denied 18:20:23 yes! 18:20:31 oh boy,that's obfuscation at it's best:( 18:20:41 T = `````''`'``''`'`'``'''''`'`'``'``'''' 18:20:58 (sorry, that's wrong of course) 18:21:01 looks like some double quotes ni there... 18:21:08 because *that* ' would be alpha' 18:21:32 So more like T = `````""`"``""`"`"``"""""`"`"``"``"""" 18:21:33 i wished ' looked like the mirror image of ` 18:22:24 wait; you are using double quotes, not single ones 18:22:33 because it's alpha' 18:22:55 oh:) 18:22:57 T = ```''````'`'''``'`''''`'' 18:27:34 -!- Bowserinator_ has joined. 18:27:37 -!- dbohdan3 has joined. 18:27:41 -!- integral_ has joined. 18:27:53 -!- sunarch_ has joined. 18:28:51 -!- dnm_ has joined. 18:30:34 -!- hiato has joined. 18:31:03 Or maybe the magnified version: T = ╲╲╲╱╱╲╲╲╲╱╲╱╱╱╲╲╱╲╱╱╱╱╲╱╱ 18:34:34 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:34 -!- haavard has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:34 -!- sunarch has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:34 -!- Bowserinator has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:34 -!- dbohdan has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:34 -!- op_4 has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:35 -!- integral has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:35 -!- dnm has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:35 -!- eli_oat has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:35 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:35 -!- kit_ten has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:35 -!- Sgeo has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:35 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:36 -!- __monty__ has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:36 -!- ^[ has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:36 -!- Trieste has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:37 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:37 -!- immibis has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:37 -!- archenoth has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:37 -!- sprout_ has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:37 -!- Kit has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:37 -!- warlock has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:37 -!- sprock has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:37 -!- HackEso has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:37 -!- Melvar` has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:37 -!- lagash has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:38 -!- laerling has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:38 -!- slavfox has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:38 -!- MizMahem has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:38 -!- V has quit (*.net *.split). 18:34:42 -!- sunarch_ has changed nick to sunarch. 18:34:42 -!- integral_ has changed nick to integral. 18:34:46 -!- dnm_ has changed nick to dnm. 18:35:02 @bot 18:35:02 :) 18:36:11 @fungot 18:36:11 Unknown command, try @list 18:36:11 fizzie: so i'm in dos promp. in reality i just pick one. 18:36:33 fungot: Retrocomputing again, are you? 18:36:34 fizzie: would require me to go ahead with gpl2+ program, it was easier 18:36:53 `no hackeso though 18:37:24 Hmm, does the command character prefix suppress the default nickname recognition? 18:37:26 ^fungot 18:37:31 I think it does. 18:38:10 [[Init]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92019 * WhyNot? * (+503) Started 18:38:35 -!- eli_oat has joined. 18:38:35 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 18:38:35 -!- kit_ten has joined. 18:38:35 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:38:35 -!- tromp has joined. 18:38:35 -!- ^[ has joined. 18:38:35 -!- __monty__ has joined. 18:38:35 -!- Trieste has joined. 18:38:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:38:35 -!- immibis has joined. 18:38:35 -!- archenoth has joined. 18:38:35 -!- sprout_ has joined. 18:38:35 -!- Kit has joined. 18:38:35 -!- warlock has joined. 18:38:35 -!- sprock has joined. 18:38:35 -!- HackEso has joined. 18:38:35 -!- Melvar` has joined. 18:38:35 -!- lagash has joined. 18:38:35 -!- laerling has joined. 18:38:35 -!- slavfox has joined. 18:38:35 -!- MizMahem has joined. 18:38:35 -!- V has joined. 18:42:15 -!- haavard has joined. 18:43:26 `wisdom retro 18:43:28 That's not wise. 18:43:32 hmph 18:43:38 [[Init]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92020&oldid=92019 * WhyNot? * (+207) 18:44:43 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92021&oldid=92007 * WhyNot? * (+11) 18:45:14 `' retro 18:45:15 568) I think the worst part of growing up is that it isn't retroactive. 18:46:10 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:46:12 Weird one, I can't even picture that. 18:47:37 Because that whole arduous and slow process of growing up is such an integral part of what it means to be human. 18:47:54 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:51:38 i vaguely think it may refer to the horror of realizing all the stupid stuff you did before growing up hth 18:52:52 Sure, I can follow along that far. But imagine it /actually/ being retroactive... 18:53:07 Also, there's this great filter called forgetting things. 18:53:10 :) 18:53:26 [[Init]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92022&oldid=92020 * WhyNot? * (+505) 18:53:38 Which may be alien to Millenials I guess. 18:53:46 Millennials. 18:53:50 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter 18:53:58 Hate that typo, know why it's bad, still make it all the time... 18:56:26 That whole do-aliens-exist thing is so speculative though. We have no idea what the odds really are; all we really have to go on is P(we exist | we exist) = 1, and a bunch of negatives that put an upper bound on the probability of other civilizations existing. 18:58:57 -!- blu256 has joined. 19:23:24 -!- tech_exorcist_ has joined. 19:24:20 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:29:47 -!- tromp has joined. 19:33:24 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:35:02 -!- blu256 has quit (Quit: Gone). 19:40:43 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 19:46:43 -!- kit_ten has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:46:49 -!- kit-ten has joined. 19:51:22 -!- kit_ten has joined. 19:54:02 -!- kit-ten has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:06:38 -!- tromp has joined. 20:15:19 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 20:15:39 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:18:48 -!- tech_exorcist_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:18:57 -!- Bowserinator_ has changed nick to Bowserinator. 20:19:50 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 20:20:11 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:24:28 -!- tech_exorcist has joined. 20:25:19 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 20:25:39 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:35:13 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 20:35:32 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:55:19 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 20:55:41 -!- impomatic has joined. 21:03:22 -!- earendel has joined. 21:04:50 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 21:05:07 [[User:A casual user]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92023&oldid=91887 * A casual user * (-1) 21:05:09 -!- impomatic has joined. 21:05:25 -!- eli_oat has quit (Quit: eli_oat). 21:05:30 [[User:A casual user]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92024&oldid=92023 * A casual user * (+19) 21:06:44 [[Hello, golf!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92025&oldid=91669 * A casual user * (+24) 21:22:32 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:33:37 -!- lagash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:38:46 -!- tromp has joined. 21:56:21 [[Init]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92026&oldid=92022 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+112) Add categories; fix link to userpage 21:58:29 int-e: is gen2 more of a time or more of a memory savings over gen? 22:00:19 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 22:00:39 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:03:38 how is f x | y <- x:[] = ... different from f x = let y = x:[] in .... ? 22:04:51 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 22:05:11 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:08:08 Are they different? 22:08:52 I think in this case where y is an irrefutable pattern it should come out to the same thing. 22:09:30 Unless you're being sneaky with the ..., I suppose (e.g. if it contains a where). 22:10:05 no, nothing sneaky, just reading some int-e code 22:10:19 -!- immibis has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:10:20 oh, I know why 22:10:39 he's repeating the variable 22:10:41 -!- immibis has joined. 22:11:00 so like f x | x <- x:[] = .... 22:11:16 so let would just loop 22:11:29 or give type error in this case 22:18:05 -!- tech_exorcist has quit (Quit: Disconnecting). 22:18:54 -!- lagash has joined. 22:36:16 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 22:38:42 -!- lagash has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:39:34 tromp: gen2 enumerates trees (applications of the given leafs), gen enumerates arbitrary terms 22:40:45 and f x | y <- x:[] = ... mostly is equivalent to f x = let y = x:[] ... but the <- isn't recursive 22:41:06 which I consider to be a feature 22:41:17 I am overusing that style though, i think 22:43:31 tromp: I used `gen` when I was trying to find bases, but it was too much (i.e., the search space was too big when multiplied by the time taken by `gen` and evaluation) 22:43:45 err the second `gen` should be `gen2` 22:44:12 oh sorry, you figured out the non-recursive bit yourself... 22:44:35 not for the first time, i now remember seeing this years ago 22:44:57 i look forward to figuring it out again some years from now:) 22:46:25 ok, i should rephrase my question 22:46:46 is the use of k <- [1..s`div`2] and mirroring more of a time or memory savings? 22:46:55 memory 22:47:11 ok, that makes sense. 22:47:52 I mean, it's still floating out the second generated list but now it's of a much more manageable size 22:48:00 it's very modest indeed now. using just 3MB while searching depth 19 22:48:42 and I was too lazy to change it to difference lists (you lose a lot of the convenience of list comprehension on the way) 22:53:45 Oh, changing the type to (L -> L) -> Int -> [L] would've been an option. 22:54:30 (incorporating a `map`, which would fix the floating out issue by incurring an actual data dependency) 23:10:34 -!- __monty__ has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:20:06 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:22:13 -!- Cale has joined. 23:25:29 -!- salpynx has joined. 23:29:09 > let f x | let y = x:[] = y in f "whistles innocently" 23:29:11 ["whistles innocently"] 23:30:55 -!- lagash has joined. 23:31:24 this is a smaller iota: ͺ 23:31:45 ```ͺͺ````ͺ`ͺͺͺ``ͺ`ͺͺͺͺ`ͺͺ 23:31:46 ​``ͺͺ````ͺ`ͺͺͺ``ͺ`ͺͺͺͺ`ͺͺ? No such file or directory 23:32:02 or ˎˎˎͺͺˎˎˎˎͺˎͺͺͺˎˎͺˎͺͺͺͺˎͺͺ if you want them aligned 23:37:23 `unicode ͺ 23:37:25 U+037A GREEK YPOGEGRAMMENI \ UTF-8: cd ba UTF-16BE: 037a Decimal: ͺ \ ͺ \ Category: Lm (Letter, Modifier) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 0020 0345 23:37:42 oh right 23:37:56 * oerjan was at that wikipedia page earlier 23:38:17 yeah, I was trying to remember the hackeso command to display that 23:38:40 `icode ͺ 23:38:41 ​[U+037A GREEK YPOGEGRAMMENI] 23:38:55 (that's short for unidecode hth) 23:40:18 The other possibility I thought of was using Hebrew Yod for an alternate derivation of that letter, but that gives RTL display issues 23:40:56 `icode י 23:40:57 ​[U+05D9 HEBREW LETTER YOD] 23:42:25 But is 'decode' just 'de'? Whoa. 23:46:59 I had to look up the Unicode for the iota-subscript, but knew it existed... now very oddly it turns out, the author of ref #1 on the wikipedia iota page is one of the people who taught me ancient Greek.