< 1643935801 763965 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1643937512 149143 :salpynx!~salpynx@121-75-16-198.dyn.vf.net.nz QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1643938462 106349 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, I think I was wrong here < 1643938555 775652 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :You have one of these evaluation rules like combinator calculus with S or Xigxag or those one-dimensional cellular automata, and you apply it repeatedly, and the loop grows the state unbounded in most cases. < 1643938568 699869 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :You want to know whether the repeated transformation is Turing-complete. < 1643938612 499778 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The problem is indeed what kind of checks you allow to get the information out from the state, call it halting condition if you wish, < 1643938652 254826 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because it's either too easy to inject Turing-completeness into even a trivial transformation, or restrict the checks too much, and I don't know what the right middle ground is < 1643938691 979765 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs SGautam :Siddharth Gautam < 1643938772 328113 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Consider for example a trivial transformation that just appends a zero at the end of the string in each step. For the halting condition, you read the program at the beginning of the state and then run it for as many steps as there are zeroes. This is a linear time language, surely linear time is not powerful enough to be Turing-complete, right? But you do get turing-completeness if you apply it to each < 1643938778 228386 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :state in this silly way. < 1643939508 7123 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :tromp: Interesting lemma. It seems like B and C provide some sort of essential service; just like how K deletes and how S and W can duplicate, B and C provide composition, and so does Q. < 1643939581 898942 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :What makes S so impressive, then, is that S also provides composition, allowing SK to be complete. < 1643941092 558222 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2~bpo10+1 - https://znc.in < 1643941092 640390 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2~bpo10+1 - https://znc.in < 1643941406 611396 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1643941557 678746 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1643942623 293372 :razetime!~quassel@49.207.209.26 JOIN #esolangs * :razetime < 1643943245 915857 :salpynx!~salpynx@121-75-16-198.dyn.vf.net.nz JOIN #esolangs salpynx :[https://web.libera.chat] salpynx < 1643944094 62622 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN #esolangs oerjan :Ørjan Johansen > 1643947364 899078 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Plurple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92859&oldid=92834 5* 03Laclale 5* (+828) 10/* Commands */ > 1643947463 693667 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Plurple14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92860&oldid=92859 5* 03Laclale 5* (-96) 10/* Commands */ > 1643947492 636484 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Plurple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92861&oldid=92860 5* 03Laclale 5* (-8) 10/* Examples */ < 1643950923 496018 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 JOIN #esolangs * :unknown < 1643951080 866668 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so i just discovered about esolangs today, and i < 1643951093 716117 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 PRIVMSG #esolangs :want to build my own < 1643951096 144957 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 PRIVMSG #esolangs :esolangs < 1643951105 50526 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 PRIVMSG #esolangs :could anybody help me < 1643951174 399465 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Have you made a programming language before? < 1643951181 478598 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no < 1643951191 363108 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is why i am asking for help > 1643951229 70938 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03AJJLyman 5* 10New user account < 1643951286 125361 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :What kinds of ideas do you want to express with your language? < 1643951342 393030 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 PRIVMSG #esolangs :simplicity and low level programming < 1643951422 798367 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :How do you feel about assembly or machine-level instructions? < 1643951428 471682 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my goal was to create a low level language for the creation of an exokernel of my own and and an os with it < 1643951468 245510 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 PRIVMSG #esolangs :assembly is scary for me < 1643951511 316806 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1643951524 661386 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i know it is too ambitious < 1643951524 727302 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe a design goal could be to find a syntax that doesn't scare you, but that still can express unsafe machine instructions. < 1643951543 886183 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, ok < 1643951581 742074 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's not ambitious to want to customize one's own computer. The ambition is only in wanting other people to run certain software. < 1643951592 186007 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and i was wondering are there better ways for memory managagement than the way c and rust handles it < 1643951657 638622 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1643951771 586810 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 PRIVMSG #esolangs :are there any new and experimental methods that have been discovered by esolangers like you in memory management < 1643951998 296923 :u0_a549!~user@2401:4900:4915:3833:0:a:c10a:8b01 PART #esolangs :ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.2) < 1643952005 294167 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :The easy way is to just not have memory. < 1643953597 526534 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, finally, a hot shower in the morning > 1643954064 522243 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Plurple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92862&oldid=92861 5* 03Laclale 5* (+103) 10/* Commands */ > 1643954319 518259 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Plurple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92863&oldid=92862 5* 03Laclale 5* (+6) 10/* XKCD fish */ > 1643955625 746624 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Plurple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92864&oldid=92863 5* 03Laclale 5* (+330) 10/* Commands */ < 1643957158 419602 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I should think better way of making a web browser that all protocols and file formats are extensions; only the data: and file: schemes, and some uses of the about: scheme, are built-in. The model of HTTP is built-in, but the protocol isn't. All extensions can be written in C, and can be dynamic linking. > 1643957551 665226 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92865&oldid=92846 5* 03Laclale 5* (+1) 10 > 1643958479 470378 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Plurple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92866&oldid=92864 5* 03Laclale 5* (+73) 10/* Commands */ > 1643958685 121124 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Plurple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92867&oldid=92866 5* 03Laclale 5* (+150) 10/* Syntax */ < 1643961727 818703 :citrons!~citrons@alt.mondecitronne.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :esolang < 1643961810 264817 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Can you be more specific? < 1643961842 461954 :citrons!~citrons@alt.mondecitronne.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :let me think < 1643961864 484454 :citrons!~citrons@alt.mondecitronne.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :FALSE < 1643962004 932161 :razetime!~quassel@49.207.209.26 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1643963349 364506 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :Corbin: indeed.and alpha = \x\y\z.x z (y (\_.z) provides all of deletion, duplication, and composition. < 1643963455 96458 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1643963463 531284 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :and is provably minimal < 1643963529 199540 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :btwm turns out my theorem was alrd proven in 1987 by Remi Legrand: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-symbolic-logic/article/abs/basis-result-in-combinatory-logic/306DF60857C5A842C9793FBBAA4A2970 < 1643963993 433015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :not surprising < 1643965309 395892 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1643965450 393423 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1643965485 738961 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1643965538 332602 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf JOIN #esolangs shachaf :Shachaf Ben-Kiki < 1643965631 421913 :razetime!~quassel@49.207.209.26 JOIN #esolangs * :razetime < 1643967151 865751 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later > 1643971641 751737 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Plurple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92868&oldid=92867 5* 03Laclale 5* (-57) 10/* XKCD fish */ > 1643972075 495156 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Plurple14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92869&oldid=92868 5* 03Laclale 5* (-10) 10/* XKCD fish */ < 1643972085 101399 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1643972149 321007 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1643972163 767140 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1643972176 71836 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown < 1643972238 659580 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.homestuck.com/story/294 huh i dont remember when he got arms < 1643972265 283855 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :btw I took my vechicle to the quantum mechanic, about the issue where the GPS and speedometer don't both work at the same time. but they were uncertain if they could fix it > 1643972445 393617 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Plurple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92870&oldid=92869 5* 03Laclale 5* (+32) 10/* XKCD fish */ < 1643973228 307371 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.homestuck.com/story/321 ah this captchalogue is based on hashing < 1643975839 580594 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN #esolangs oerjan :Ørjan Johansen < 1643977764 75531 :tech_exorcist!txrcst@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him - IT, EN < 1643978221 599123 :salpynx!~salpynx@121-75-16-198.dyn.vf.net.nz QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1643979635 278764 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92871&oldid=92747 5* 03Laclale 5* (+25) 10/* Game */ < 1643979637 531346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1643980095 447846 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Plurple14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92872&oldid=92870 5* 03Laclale 5* (+22) 10/* Implementations */ < 1643980464 915721 :Bertrahm!~Bertrahm@p200300c9a7297600f1e80c8afb49c5fb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN #esolangs Bertrahm :[https://web.libera.chat] Bertrahm < 1643980764 62081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN #esolangs oerjan :Ørjan Johansen < 1643981124 780710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1643983517 413668 :eli_oat!~eli_oat@92.119.19.225 JOIN #esolangs eli_oat :eli_oat < 1643986412 637 :razetime!~quassel@49.207.209.26 QUIT :Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere. < 1643986655 822998 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://rtpg.co/2022/01/10/adversarial-wordle-limiting-conjecture.html < 1643988081 114775 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have a question about design of dice < 1643988091 758297 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :for equal probability we use platonic solids(?) < 1643988097 521103 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :but that is related to having a flat table < 1643988102 578204 :Soni!~quassel@autistic.space QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1643988112 17567 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :what if we can build an arbitrary shape of table, does it allow new dice? < 1643988725 80665 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://trick-dice.com/ clever, gallium loadded dice. it's fair, you heat it up and let it cool, and now it's biased < 1643988764 816474 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Even for a flat table, there's the (boring) "long, thin rod with N flat sides" shape, which allows any N >= 2. < 1643988825 868797 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also, I think there's more fair dice than just the platonic solids. Like the disdyakis triacontahedron from https://www.tor.com/2016/04/29/the-dice-lab-creates-a-one-hundred-and-twenty-sided-die/ < 1643988826 263536 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah that is a nice idea :) < 1643988917 215165 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh Henry Segerman is involved < 1643988920 170128 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I like his youtube channel < 1643988930 865443 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :« “It’s not one of the most beautiful polyhedra,” he told me. “It’s just a little lumpy. It doesn’t have personality.” » Wow, a polyhedral snob. < 1643988982 336965 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :not to be confused with snub < 1643989117 371418 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is a fun combinatorial problem to design which number goes on which side < 1643989197 137667 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_solid so do all of thes woerk < 1643989232 496621 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I suppose not, some have multiple different faces < 1643989310 841473 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :although they could be 'reroll' sides.. < 1643989339 894216 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Isohedron.html < 1643989344 405443 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think this is all fair dice < 1643989365 204401 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :The isohedra make fair dice, and there are 30 of them < 1643989368 114795 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com QUIT : < 1643989524 486520 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, 30 kinds. Some like https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Dipyramid.html are apparently a family. < 1643989667 362292 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1643989678 62929 :kamila[m]1!~kamilacov@2001:470:69fc:105::1:91dc JOIN #esolangs * :@kamila:coven.palaiologos.rocks < 1643989748 159315 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs SGautam :Siddharth Gautam < 1643990778 84152 :Bertrahm!~Bertrahm@p200300c9a7297600f1e80c8afb49c5fb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1643992641 37461 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1643994044 2184 :eli_oat!~eli_oat@92.119.19.225 QUIT :Quit: eli_oat < 1643996431 614975 :razetime[m]1!~razetimec@2001:470:69fc:105::1:9244 JOIN #esolangs * :@razetime:coven.palaiologos.rocks < 1643996547 621148 :Soni!~quassel@autistic.space JOIN #esolangs SoniEx2 :Genders: Autgender, 💜⬜💚; Soni L. > 1643997016 538559 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Syncin14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92873 5* 03BowlingPizzaBall 5* (+1949) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} '''syncin''' is a joke esoteric programming language. Every single instruction must be written in reverse order. It has support for multiple lines.
== Instr..." > 1643997093 756680 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Syncin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92874&oldid=92873 5* 03BowlingPizzaBall 5* (+54) 10Forgot to add creator (me) > 1643997334 859887 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92875&oldid=92489 5* 03BowlingPizzaBall 5* (+155) 10 > 1643997444 252468 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92876&oldid=92005 5* 03BowlingPizzaBall 5* (+74) 10 < 1643997637 656079 :eli_oat!~eli_oat@45.144.113.178 JOIN #esolangs eli_oat :eli_oat < 1643997937 152564 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :but my question was if you could consider something like a corrigated surface < 1643997941 539886 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :would that enable new types of dice < 1643998035 84967 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'd start by worrying about adding more dependencies on how the die is cast, then discard the question :P > 1643998040 303582 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-Z)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92877&oldid=92490 5* 03BowlingPizzaBall 5* (+75) 10 < 1643998075 267351 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :3d printing < 1643998115 328149 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean... how you cast a die does affect the odds already, but with a non-flat surface it's not even horizontally translation invariant anymore. > 1643998635 282319 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Syncin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92878&oldid=92874 5* 03BowlingPizzaBall 5* (+46) 10adding other necessary stuff < 1643999253 694173 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :the idea is it will always fall into specific grooves < 1643999485 290439 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, the reason dice are fair (if you cast them properly... probably involving a cup on a plate and a round of thorough shakes by everybody involved) comes down to symmetry. If you break that symmetry the problem becomes much harder... you need to worry about materials (beyond the point that it's uniform), and probably velocities and a ton of other things. < 1643999517 848975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And that's before we even get to the extra oddities from the non-planar surface. < 1643999883 916713 :Guest85!~Guest85@static-71-117-155-90.prvdri.fios.verizon.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest85 < 1643999914 937446 :Guest8576!~Guest85@static-71-117-155-90.prvdri.fios.verizon.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest85 < 1643999944 962260 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Playing Superliminal made me realize how brilliant Portal was... it didn't just have a story, it had adversity. Superliminal lacks that, and it makes it kind of bland. The puzzles are still cute though (not hard, though actually I was stumped for a while in two of them, so maybe not totally easy either). < 1643999966 742925 :Guest85!~Guest85@static-71-117-155-90.prvdri.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1643999974 328536 :Guest8576!~Guest85@static-71-117-155-90.prvdri.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1644000047 898520 :eli_oat!~eli_oat@45.144.113.178 QUIT :Quit: eli_oat > 1644000513 64574 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:BowlingPizzaBall14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92879&oldid=92858 5* 03BowlingPizzaBall 5* (+23) 10 < 1644000528 450905 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :What is the classification of fair dice? Although the ten sided dice is not Platonic solid, I had been told (on the IRC, I think) that it is a fair dice. < 1644001108 558247 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :im not worried about the probability too much < 1644001116 97029 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the probability will be extrremely close to even < 1644001144 446447 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.exploratorium.edu/sites/default/files/snacks/SquareWheels_DSC_6112_P960.jpg < 1644001148 135977 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :i was thinking along these lines < 1644001212 906889 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe it is close, but I would want to know what is the classification of fair dice mathematically < 1644002116 513801 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :in my opinion a dice is fair if it has equal probability for every symbol that can be rolled by it < 1644002147 50735 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess that is not really mathematica < 1644002148 650999 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :l < 1644002160 563062 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :its more just "roll it a lot of times and count, and if the counts are very close it is fair" < 1644003271 506473 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1644003273 803740 :Soni!~quassel@autistic.space QUIT :Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere. < 1644003321 415231 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: in practice, most fair dice are the dual of an Archimedean solid (because an Archimidean solid is symmetrical in the sense that you can rotate/reflect any vertex onto any other, its dual is symmetrical in the sense that you can rotate/reflect any face onto any other, meaning that it must necessarily be fair as a dice) < 1644003351 413153 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the usual d10 is the dual of a pentagonal antiprism (an Archimidean solid), thus is symmetrical with respect to its 10 sides and thus equally likely to land on any of htem < 1644003358 624892 :Soni!~quassel@autistic.space JOIN #esolangs SoniEx2 :Genders: Autgender, 💜⬜💚; Soni L. < 1644003432 628397 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, apparently prisms and antiprisms (and Platonic solids) aren't "officially" Archimidean, but they have the same property (of all vertexes being identical) < 1644003446 509798 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Prisms and antiprisms, whose symmetry groups are the dihedral groups, are generally not considered to be Archimedean solids, even though their faces are regular polygons and their symmetry groups act transitively on their vertices. < 1644003451 433530 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what a weird special case > 1644003551 135375 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Syncin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92880&oldid=92878 5* 03BowlingPizzaBall 5* (+32) 10 < 1644003730 727512 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :one problem with using duals of Archimidean solids for dice is that they tend to have the same number of faces as each other < 1644003762 10469 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :12, 24, 48, 30, 60, or 120 < 1644003879 707169 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so not many of them are actually useful (the main purpose is for if you want a d24 or d30) < 1644004033 515478 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, I found the name for them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_solid (there's a list of the ones that don't belong to infinite families there – the infinite families are bipyramids and trapezohedra, and the d10 is a pentagonal trapezohedron) > 1644004047 818877 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92881&oldid=92836 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+15) 10+[[CSP Spec]] > 1644004051 133240 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92882&oldid=92393 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+15) 10+[[CSP Spec]] < 1644004081 487522 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes > 1644004095 178554 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07CSP Spec14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92883 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+6934) 10+[[CSP Spec]] < 1644004095 611200 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is a little ugly but you can e.g. make a 9 sided dice from a 10 sided dice < 1644004102 818604 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :just having one face be a re-reroll indicator < 1644004134 696717 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :and you can combine that with having each number appear twice, or 3x < 1644004162 302948 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :when you roll a dice it lands with the bottom face flat < 1644004171 299451 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :but there must be a top face opposite this, for you to read the value off < 1644004189 579627 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :are any shapes excluded as dice, because they actually have a vertex opposite each face? < 1644004321 91597 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: D4 are a thing though < 1644004429 912583 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :d4 are normally tetrahedra, as opposed to octahedra with duplicated numbers < 1644004473 489077 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the octahedron is much easier to roll fairly, though, tetrahedra don't roll very well (the main advantage of a tetrahedron is that it looks so different from an octahedron that you're unlikely to pick the wrong die by mistake) < 1644004477 976128 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the point was that they have labeled corners, sort of. < 1644004500 793687 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in practice we normally rolled d4s via bouncing them off a table, with a lot of spin (the d4s we had available tended to bounce quite well on tables) < 1644004525 338762 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but yes, the vertices are labeled via placing the same label on the corner of each face incident to the vertex < 1644004529 366657 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :There are two obvious ways to make a D10, one of which would have an edge on top when you roll it. < 1644004555 677392 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(well, once it lands) < 1644004569 77594 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is a good reason for using a trapezohedron rather than a bipyramid < 1644004607 103073 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the other good reason is that they look more distinct from octahedra – a pentagonal bipyramid looks quite similar to an octahedron, which is a tetragonal bipyramid) < 1644004894 610165 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can have nested dice < 1644004901 890729 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :glass outer dice with another thing inside it < 1644004924 363551 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm how does the tetrahedral dice work? < 1644004938 661952 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :perhaps you need a table with pointed depressions in it < 1644004950 586899 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then it should always fall into one of these grooves and show a face upwards < 1644005634 844716 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :typically like this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-sided_die < 1644005690 632506 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(oh, right, they label the bottom face, not the corners. that's less cramped...) < 1644005866 816222 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1644006052 213746 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :A d4, of course, is the one you step on. < 1644006290 230715 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah yes, RPG caltrops < 1644006651 570772 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :ouch! < 1644006970 198343 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't have much comment about the dice, except that apart from the regular solids and Catalan solids and dual prisms and dual antiprisms, there's one more infinite class of fair dice. these are the ones that have just two vertexes with a loop of two-edged faces around them. you can't make them from flat faces, but you can curve the faces of the dice and still have it be symmetric, so that can work. < 1644007741 447897 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :`? member < 1644007745 19591 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm sorry, #esoteric has regulars, not members. Who told you about members? There are definitely no members here, and you wouldn't be allowed to know about them, anyway. < 1644007963 306609 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644008199 624103 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :but there may also be random shapes which happen to be fair? < 1644008257 858018 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: not really. the problem is that the probabilities depend on how you throw the dice, like how fast. < 1644008285 885747 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmmm < 1644008297 397017 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :so you could make a dice which has different probabilities depending on the throw speed < 1644008301 790514 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :that is a very interesting concept < 1644008305 627778 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :however, you can have modified variants of the dice mentioned that have the same number of faces but with fewer symmetries < 1644008521 101951 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :in particular you could have a d10 in kind of the normal topology of a dual 5-antiprism, but modify it so that it has no symmetry plane because it looks kind of like a bicycle tire that rolls differently forwards and backwards < 1644008583 273776 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but since it still has enough symmetries for face-transitivity of the symmetries, so it's a fair dice < 1644008646 443882 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: you can imagine an ordinary coin. if you throw it hard it's much less likely to land on an edge than if you drop it gently. < 1644008674 163973 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's why you can't just make a 3-prism to get a d5 that's a fair dice < 1644008679 561454 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1644008699 396919 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644008754 965513 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see! < 1644008803 486764 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: you can construct many other sorts of fair dice by allowing for them to have some faces that aren't stable and thus will never be landed on < 1644008890 627170 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: does that actually allow any fair dice that's really different from the ones listed above, if you count the degenerate cases of d1 and d2 among them? < 1644008892 850455 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :imagine a pyramid with a hemisphere glued to the unique face, such that the hemisphere's circular face is the incircle of the unique face < 1644008944 541852 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the pyramid won't balance on the hemisphere and (if sufficiently tall) won't balance on the edge of the unique face, so it'll tip over to one of the non-unique faces, and those are all equally likely < 1644008946 339628 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: right, that's kind of like the one with two nodes, but with less symmetries. but I guess I didn't specified well what you count the same < 1644008951 52383 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1644008971 314402 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644009002 801736 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :when all the faces are curved, it's harder to prove that the dice will in fact land on a face < 1644009007 5572 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 PRIVMSG #esolangs :rather than balanced between two faces somehow < 1644009064 387436 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it could be for some dice, yes < 1644009201 623435 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, you can get that prism thing with flat faces too, if you just make it a dual prism and put the center of gravity to one of the ends so it's only stable on half its faces < 1644009279 449848 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1644009299 313186 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644009554 994471 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1644009575 463405 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644010479 497377 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1644010502 364965 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644010569 354407 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`? time cube < 1644010571 350939 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated stupid fools. < 1644010579 477622 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`? wisest human on earth < 1644010581 261880 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :wisest human on earth? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1644010583 867722 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-103.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`? gene ray < 1644010585 773073 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Dr Gene Ray is the Greatest Philosopher, and is the Greatest Mathematician. Cubic Harmonics. Only Cubic Harmonics can save humanity. Cubic Harmonics will pacify all religions. 96-hour Cubic Day debunks 1-day unnatural god. 96-hour day willdisprove disunity god. Academians are teaching - pseudocience. Worshipping a Word God will destroy the USA. < 1644010751 89142 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1644010773 436693 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644011679 527393 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1644011699 268395 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644012010 959305 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.84 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1644012062 647741 :tech_exorcist!txrcst@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Quit: Disconnecting < 1644012250 967361 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1644012271 438763 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644015879 513514 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1644015899 233371 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644015899 773823 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1644016150 938561 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1644016171 230933 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644016433 23838 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1644016479 376490 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1644016499 229463 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644016750 919121 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1644016771 352860 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644017079 479889 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1644017099 231669 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644017350 824146 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1644017371 363014 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1644018518 487426 :llk!~quassel@host.164-138-91-170.broadband.redcom.ru JOIN #esolangs * :llk < 1644019179 500187 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1644019199 304211 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-153-63-26.range86-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf