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02:29:02 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93123&oldid=93077 * Laclale * (+169) /* Game */
02:30:51 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93124&oldid=93123 * Laclale * (-142) /* Game */
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08:01:29 <definitelya> Heyyy! I am not a programmer, but I want to have a good workflow regardless. I'll be starting out the learning process using Befunge; I am ready, I think...
08:02:24 <Corbin> Cool. Befunge does not seem like the easiest first programming language, though. Good luck.
08:08:07 <Corbin> You might find Orca interesting, too. It can make music
08:10:57 <definitelya> True, I saw a video on it. It's neat and simple.
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15:18:41 <razetime[m]> befunge is fun.. do feel free to ask question
16:13:22 <definitelya__> razetime[m]: Thanks, I will probably consult the specification on github a lot.
16:14:22 <definitelya__> I am currently creating schematics with Minetest, a blocky game, but tomorrow I shall create something simple I guess.
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17:44:51 <sgji> definitelya__, you can do whatever you want, but id advise against befunge as a first language, pretty much every other language would be better for a beginner to learn programming concepts
17:46:49 <sgji> it was specifically designed to be complex, lol
18:03:30 <fizzie> We-ell... it was specifically designed to be hard to compile. I don't know if it's particularly complex as far as writing it goes.
18:04:43 <fizzie> Not saying I'd recommend it for learning how to program, the 2D syntax and lack of any "non-local" control flow (i.e., function calls) does make writing nontrivial programs somewhat tricky. But still.
18:05:00 <fizzie> fungot: What do you think about learning to program using Befunge?
18:05:01 <fungot> fizzie: maybe we could follow plan9 and have the right to be subversive?
18:05:12 <fizzie> (fungot itself is written in Befunge, so it should have a good idea about that.)
18:05:12 <fungot> fizzie: do you want your language to do all the receives and values to make a cross-country flight to acapulco so i can make someone laugh
18:05:59 <b_jonas> fizzie: Hofstadter says that that's not the right logic, because after all we're made of physics and biology but that doesn't make it easy for us to understand them
18:07:36 <definitelya__> fizzie: Yes! I also saw a video on Befunge by Truttle1.
18:08:20 <fungot> definitelya__: it seems to
18:08:32 <fizzie> fungot: Emphasis on the word "seems", eh?
18:08:33 <fungot> fizzie: ( is it that intel cpus are terrible. it took me a long persistance display
18:09:15 <fizzie> fungot: You're *running* on an Intel CPU right now. Is that why your responses are so terrible?
18:09:15 <fungot> fizzie: i like scheme, modulo the definition of list-case in-line, and then
18:10:17 <fizzie> (I guess that might have been an endorsement of Scheme as a first language?)
18:14:04 <fungot> definitelya__: that might be
18:14:28 <fungot> definitelya__: much more like to see these small korean girls in french fnord do have money over there, it's there for a while,
18:23:36 <definitelya__> I think it meant https://esolangs.org/wiki/Enterprise%E2%84%A2
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18:38:05 <sgji> fizzie, i understand, i do think there is some coorelation between complexity to compile and to write, atleast in the case of befunge which i would consider to be complex to write, atleast for a first language
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19:07:30 <sgji> sgeo, i like your name
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19:43:28 <pyautogui> Newbie question: I have occasionally been on esolangs.org for a couple of years now, and have noticed that the featured language has not changed from Thue. Why is that? It seems like there would be turnover.
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19:45:35 <sgji> bf was featured language for 8+ years, its just changed infrequently
19:45:44 <fizzie> It's a very irregular process, and schedule: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Featured_languages
19:46:12 <fizzie> I'd like to feature Befunge (already proposed as a candidate), but I just feel the article could do with some polishing first, and I never get around to it.
19:46:23 <pyautogui> Got it. Thank you for the quick answer!
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20:01:29 <int-e> obpun: Shouldn't Turing tarpits rather be "unfeatured languages"?
20:02:07 <riv> featherless
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21:11:41 <int-e> riv: . o O ( BFS is so shallow )
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22:38:49 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93125&oldid=88032 * Digital Hunter * (-136) /* Euler's number calculator */ shorter
22:45:34 <esolangs> [[Parse this sic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93126&oldid=93125 * Digital Hunter * (-36) /* Three-param */
22:53:53 <b_jonas> that's why I suggest featuring Nopfunge instead
23:10:07 <int-e> why isn't the white border here symmetric? https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/playground.html (screenshot https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/playground.png )
23:13:32 <fizzie> Inspecting the body element in Chrome says its computed height is 604.
23:14:40 <fizzie> It becomes symmetric for me if I add `display: block;` in the <svg> element's style attribute.
23:14:46 <fizzie> So my guess would be "something about lines".
23:15:21 <int-e> Thanks, I'll take it.
23:17:56 <int-e> oh. so 4px is the descender length of my font?
23:18:29 <int-e> since the SVG is aligned with the text baseline...
23:18:48 <int-e> I guess that makes sense.
23:22:02 <int-e> fizzie: That was some good sense of direction :)
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