< 1723423503 378536 :amby!~ambylastn@2a00:23c5:ce05:7801:9e14:cb60:3aa7:eb7f QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement < 1723426851 304652 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :BLC lengths are now diagrammed: https://mostawesomedude.github.io/bb-gauge/blc-length.html I'm surprised to see that the search for a period-32 Laver table is slightly shorter than any interpreter I've documented. I suppose that this approach is already paying off by making such facts visible. < 1723432380 925049 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1723432383 977077 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1723432389 408059 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.162.143 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale < 1723432464 866100 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1723437669 453102 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Aheui14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135624&oldid=120652 5* 03ProjectEuler 5* (-147) 10 > 1723437909 976244 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07A+B Problem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135625&oldid=135013 5* 03ProjectEuler 5* (+44) 10/* Aheui */ new section > 1723437966 865149 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Aheui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135626&oldid=135624 5* 03ProjectEuler 5* (+51) 10/* A+B Problem */ new section < 1723439161 41382 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.162.143 QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1723440604 255729 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1723445919 490955 :integral!sid296274@user/integral QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1723445954 383267 :drakonis!drakonis@user/meow/drakonis QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1723446019 788899 :integral!sid296274@user/integral JOIN #esolangs integral :bsmith < 1723446047 880204 :drakonis!drakonis@user/meow/drakonis JOIN #esolangs drakonis :drakonis < 1723453168 444890 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@83.223.248.215 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale < 1723453876 335194 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@83.223.248.215 QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1723454171 938899 :amby!~ambylastn@2a00:23c5:ce05:7801:3d50:cb4f:dcc9:9aed JOIN #esolangs * :realname > 1723457562 725031 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Violation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135627&oldid=132666 5* 03Unname4798 5* (-192) 10 < 1723459295 458439 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@83.223.248.215 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale < 1723459585 337967 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@83.223.248.215 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1723460455 626407 :m5zs7k!aquares@web10.mydevil.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1723460571 281059 :m5zs7k!aquares@web10.mydevil.net JOIN #esolangs m5zs7k :m5zs7k > 1723462468 427499 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wireless Coolbeans14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=135628 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+658) 10Created page with "Wireless Coolbeans is an esolang made by Unname4798. == Help == Signals can move in air in in 4 directions:
 ^ up > right v down < left 
They get reflected 90 degrees by /'s and \'s. / turns the signal right, while \ turns the signal left:
 
> 1723462504 603066 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Unname479814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135629&oldid=135153 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+39) 10add Wireless Coolbeans
> 1723462719 716244 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wireless Coolbeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135630&oldid=135628 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+201) 10
< 1723462817 903392 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
> 1723462911 111227 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wireless Coolbeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135631&oldid=135630 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+233) 10
> 1723462946 172321 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wireless Coolbeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135632&oldid=135631 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+20) 10
> 1723463180 646313 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wireless Coolbeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135633&oldid=135632 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+87) 10
> 1723463218 880858 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wireless Coolbeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135634&oldid=135633 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+4) 10
> 1723463533 7982 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Old Branjunk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135635&oldid=135622 5* 03Ais523 5* (+685) 10don't hide the User: on links to userspace
> 1723463552 61621 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wireless Coolbeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135636&oldid=135634 5* 03Unname4798 5* (-3) 10
> 1723463592 554856 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135637&oldid=135447 5* 03Ais523 5* (+51) 10
> 1723463602 887506 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135638&oldid=135637 5* 03Ais523 5* (+37) 10
> 1723463621 711713 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135639&oldid=135638 5* 03Ais523 5* (-88) 10clear sandbox after my tests
> 1723463622 445317 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wireless Coolbeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135640&oldid=135636 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+31) 10
> 1723463643 131999 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wireless Coolbeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135641&oldid=135640 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+2) 10
> 1723463687 781058 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wireless Coolbeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135642&oldid=135641 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+33) 10
> 1723463869 170727 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wireless Coolbeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135643&oldid=135642 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+105) 10
> 1723463931 818083 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wireless Coolbeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135644&oldid=135643 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+9) 10
> 1723464438 222323 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07C14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135645&oldid=125961 5* 03MathigonDec 5* (+14) 10
> 1723464458 709927 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07B sharp14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135646&oldid=125356 5* 03MathigonDec 5* (+4) 10
> 1723464475 16341 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07CFUCK14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135647&oldid=118472 5* 03MathigonDec 5* (+4) 10Cross-reference
> 1723464487 301595 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07C++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135648&oldid=125902 5* 03MathigonDec 5* (+14) 10
> 1723464566 319802 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MediaWiki:Abusefilter-piped-link-to-userspace14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=135649 5* 03Ais523 5* (+609) 10a message warning people about piping links to userspace
> 1723464777 958846 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MediaWiki:Abusefilter-sandbox-clean-reminder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135650&oldid=130894 5* 03Ais523 5* (+355) 10put this in a colored box, like with the other edit filter warnings
> 1723464784 715155 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rock paper scissors14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=135651 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+1247) 10Created page with "'''Rock paper scissors''' or '''RPS''' is a 2d esolang where there are pointers that play rock paper scissors with each other. yea thats it. it was create by [[User:Yayimhere]] == syntax == === pointers === RPS uses [[Befunge]] arrows:  >V  ^< and this is 
> 1723464911 436670 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rock paper scissors14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135652&oldid=135651 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-2) 10/* other */
> 1723465026 795913 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135653&oldid=135552 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (+294) 10test to make sure this still works
> 1723465231 591354 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MediaWiki:Abusefilter-sandbox-clean-reminder14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135654&oldid=135650 5* 03Ais523 5* (+2) 10fix discussion of the preview  apparently it doesn't show when an edit is caught by the filter
> 1723465264 532941 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rock paper scissors14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135655&oldid=135652 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+154) 10/* other */
> 1723465455 938788 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rock paper scissors14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135656&oldid=135655 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+1547) 10
< 1723465621 422674 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I realised that there's another busy-beaver-like problem that is interesting on smaller Turing machines: try to produce a halting oracle for (Turing machine, state of tape) pairs
< 1723465630 976593 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what's the simplest Turing machine for which we can't produce an oracle?
> 1723465979 707835 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rock paper scissors14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135657&oldid=135656 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+128) 10
> 1723466016 232873 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Violation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135658&oldid=135627 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+192) 10deleting this is like deleting half of [[errorfuck]]
> 1723466084 191008 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135659&oldid=135566 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+67) 10
> 1723466118 13989 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname479814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135660&oldid=135507 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+281) 10
< 1723466642 426687 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@83.223.248.215 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
< 1723466805 324447 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: correction to your busy beaver gauge "future directions": it's known that there are universal tag machines with maximum word length 3 because any tag machine can be compiled to have maximum word length 3 by adding extra symbols
< 1723466851 844444 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and maximum word length 2 is known to not be universal because it has bounded memory)
< 1723466939 683970 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually I'm not entirely sure how the compilation to word length 3 works, maybe it isn't general, but it probably is
< 1723466944 997446 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I do know it's been proven universal
< 1723466958 931701 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :4 is much much easier to work with, though
< 1723467167 338125 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@83.223.248.215 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1723467918 721347 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: “a halting oracle for (Turing machine, state of tape) pairs” => I don't understand this. what's the input to this oracle? 
> 1723467981 633568 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mornington Crescent14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135661&oldid=76618 5* 03MathigonDec 5* (+32) 10
> 1723468116 575446 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sclipting14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135662&oldid=133360 5* 03MathigonDec 5* (+32) 10
> 1723468162 477444 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deoxyribose14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=135663 5* 03MathigonDec 5* (+284) 10Created page with "'''Deoxyribose''' is a DNA-themed language created by "georgewatson" on Github. Input is not interactive, while output is.  == See also == * [[DNA]] * [[DNA-Sharp|DNA#]] * [[Codon]]  [[Category:Languages]] [[Category:Stack-based]] [[Category:Non-interactive IO]] 
< 1723468794 218715 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1 - https://znc.in
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> 1723468876 279203 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135664&oldid=118305 5* 03MathigonDec 5* (+27) 10/* C++ */ new section
< 1723469054 490 :xelxebar_!~xelxebar@wilsonb.com JOIN #esolangs xelxebar :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1723469073 644635 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@wilsonb.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
> 1723469082 423649 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (B-C)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135665&oldid=130078 5* 03MathigonDec 5* (+191) 10
> 1723469201 9109 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codd14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135666&oldid=64181 5* 03MathigonDec 5* (+77) 10
> 1723469270 875680 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Codd 5*  10New user account
> 1723469311 133787 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135667&oldid=135653 5* 03Codd 5* (+156) 10
< 1723469348 30596 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in
> 1723469368 495779 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codd14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135668&oldid=135666 5* 03Codd 5* (+98) 10
< 1723469441 857592 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1723470409 142635 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1 - https://znc.in
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< 1723471107 625379 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1723471187 141609 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in
> 1723471506 485815 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135669&oldid=135659 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-11) 10/* Rock paper scissors */
< 1723472619 752379 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : ais523: “a halting oracle for (Turing machine, state of tape) pairs” => I don't understand this. what's the input to this oracle? ← a Turing machine and a state/tape pair, with a finitely initialised tape
< 1723472789 953139 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, this doesn't really fit anywhere, so I'm going to put it in the #esoteric logs: http://matwbn.icm.edu.pl/ksiazki/aa/aa70/aa7023.pdf proves a statement about the sequence x_n = a*(b**n) with real a and rational b, which I think proves something about the behaviour of consistent Collatz sequences like Hydra and Antihydra
< 1723472804 672839 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but unfortunately the result is too weak to be of that much use
> 1723472814 304875 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fun Video Game14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135670&oldid=135303 5* 03Qawtykit 5* (+211) 10added akdrfsbathnede knem
> 1723472852 313765 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fun Video Game14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135671&oldid=135670 5* 03Qawtykit 5* (+2) 10
> 1723473040 536705 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rock paper scissors14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135672&oldid=135657 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-1462) 10
> 1723473052 334581 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rock paper scissors14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135673&oldid=135672 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-2) 10
> 1723473271 881273 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rock paper scissors14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135674&oldid=135673 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-11) 10
> 1723473419 567343 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Akdrfsbathnede knem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135675&oldid=135454 5* 03Qawtykit 5* (+204) 10Finished Fun Video Game, added computational class section
> 1723473563 238087 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135676&oldid=135584 5* 03Qawtykit 5* (+26) 10added akdrfsbathnede knem
> 1723473656 683449 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Akdrfsbathnede knem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135677&oldid=135675 5* 03Qawtykit 5* (+116) 10
< 1723473958 692723 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, but then I don't understand the question “what's the simplest Turing machine for which we can't produce an oracle” since the Turing machine is part of the input
< 1723474104 431297 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.160.151 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
> 1723474113 308606 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=135678 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+802) 10Created page with "EDE (Esolang Defenition Esolang) is an esolang that every program defines an interpreter. == Brainfuck interpreter ==  define a pointer  define b string-ascii  ----------  > moves a forward on b  < moves a backward on b  + increases b at spot of a  - decreases b at spot
> 1723474125 411843 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135679&oldid=135678 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (-2) 10/* Truth machine interpreter */
> 1723474134 452995 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135680&oldid=135679 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+0) 10/* Truth machine interpreter */
> 1723474342 192053 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135681&oldid=135669 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Implementations */ Sort
> 1723474382 682326 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rock paper scissors14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135682&oldid=135674 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+25) 10
> 1723474431 804489 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07RPS14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=135683 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+33) 10Redirected page to [[Rock paper scissors]]
> 1723474449 363217 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135684&oldid=135680 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+150) 10
< 1723474719 962248 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: oh, I mean to pick a different oracle for each specific Turing machine
< 1723474722 792505 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the input is just the state of the tape
> 1723474755 448946 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rock paper scissors14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135685&oldid=135682 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+126) 10Categories
> 1723474927 92491 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Violation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135686&oldid=135658 5* 03Unname4798 5* (-160) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/135658|135658]] by [[Special:Contributions/Tommyaweosme|Tommyaweosme]] ([[User talk:Tommyaweosme|talk]]) (this program always violates rules)
> 1723474946 526911 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Violation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135687&oldid=135686 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+6) 10
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< 1723475222 646664 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, that's better. and are you asking for the simplest Turing-machine for which there's no computable halting test, or for which we humans can't find one?
< 1723475308 724410 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the latter
< 1723475334 149143 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess the former is an interesting problem too, but it's mostly just theoretical because it's hard to prove that an oracle doesn't exist
> 1723475426 342861 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135688&oldid=135684 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+202) 10add my-new-esolang.txt interpreter
> 1723475544 99695 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135689&oldid=135688 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+14) 10
> 1723475577 722480 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135690&oldid=135689 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+4) 10
> 1723475667 261429 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135691&oldid=135690 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+27) 10
> 1723475702 738392 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135692&oldid=135691 5* 03Unname4798 5* (-17) 10
> 1723475740 239414 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135693&oldid=135692 5* 03Unname4798 5* (-5) 10
> 1723475830 725008 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135694&oldid=135693 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+2) 10
> 1723475853 820914 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135695&oldid=135694 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+1) 10
> 1723475895 314675 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135696&oldid=135695 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+4) 10
> 1723475962 769924 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135697&oldid=135696 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+0) 10
> 1723476047 515302 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135698&oldid=135697 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+4) 10
< 1723476113 162553 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: oh, that reminds me of a question about Turing-machines that came up some days ago. I know if you have a Turing-machine, you can always translate it to one that uses just two tape symbols, by making the number of states much larger as a tradeoff. But is there an easy reduction the other way, translating to a Turing-machine with just two states but a large number of symbols? Or some other small 
< 1723476119 175271 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :number of states?
< 1723476234 285803 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: BLC does that fairly naturally: you can ask for prefixes for which halting cannot be determined (each bit stream defines a lambda term, and the rest of the stream is passed as an argument; for a given prefix you can distinguish between halting, non-halting, and the program using input beyond the prefix)
< 1723476269 677122 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :presumably it's possible because there are known small turing machines that are universal, so you interpret through them, but I wonder if there's an easier reduction
> 1723476312 938887 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname4798/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135699&oldid=135502 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+25) 10
> 1723476336 921110 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname4798/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135700&oldid=135699 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+10) 10
> 1723476357 510370 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname4798/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135701&oldid=135700 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+32) 10
> 1723476459 288628 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname4798/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135702&oldid=135701 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+45) 10
< 1723476531 735634 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I think there is a fairly easy reduction: the basic idea is to have all the symbols on the tape (except for the untouched area at the sides) represent a (state, symbol) pair (with the state being the same for all of them), plus also representing whether the tape head is to the left or right of the cell (allowing you to determine which direction it last moved in) – the two states of the new Turing machine then become "cycle the state of the entire 
< 1723476533 222218 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :tape" and "act normally", and you can use extra symbols to remember what you were doing as you cycle the state of the entire tape
< 1723476606 631167 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's basically what I did to implement Grill Tag in a Turing machine
< 1723476662 956432 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :in fact, most of the ape will just remember a symbol and whether the head is to the left or right, but there'll usually be a pair of symbols that each hold a part of a state being copied from one to the next one bit at a time
< 1723476664 785359 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you probably need to maintain one buffer cell between the touched and untouched area of the tape to make it work, but it doesn't seem too conceptually difficult
< 1723476695 924662 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: oh, I think that's a different construction from mine, it probably also works though
< 1723476751 72364 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I guess you could even have a protocol where the first bit signals whether the head is moving head or right so most of the tape can just carry plain symbols
< 1723476814 958907 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, I see – we have "idle symbols" that represent the tape of the original machine, and the current symbol which represents a symbol/state pair; when we move off it we move onto an idle symbol and first tell it whether it's receiving information from the left or right, then which state it should be in
< 1723476832 869438 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah
< 1723476856 905649 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I like that construction, it's more efficient than mine in terms of execution time
< 1723476882 837301 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I think it uses fewer symbols, too
< 1723477037 442835 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, anyway, I had an idea for a Turing machine variant a while ago: there is only the one state, but tape elements change from being near the tape pointer (i.e. either under it or adjacent to it) rather than only when the pointer is pointing to them
< 1723477074 515114 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I didn't fix the details of exactly how it worked – probably you have a separate map for "under" and "near"
< 1723477085 842641 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know whether or not this can be TC
< 1723477091 195107 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm. a 1D CA with "focus"?
< 1723477128 743456 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, the opposite
< 1723477149 730985 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cells don't read the adjacent cell to see how to change, just the location of the tape head
< 1723477153 731569 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess you'll have to say how the neighbouring states change.
< 1723477165 544077 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah.
< 1723477190 2196 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So you have a few symbol -> symbol maps plus a symbol -> direction map?
< 1723477196 971241 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right
< 1723477322 884826 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's awkward but surely it must be TC if you can modify to both sides of the head :P
< 1723477331 741562 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think you might be able to set up a protocol where if you alternate between sending the tape head left and right, the adjacent cells cycle their state and push the tape head back each time, and sending it the same direction twice is how you "officially" move onto the next cell
< 1723477333 163944 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :surely ;-)
< 1723477369 866467 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the awkward bit is that any communication between cells must be realized through a left/right dance)
< 1723477376 845491 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yep
< 1723477416 912766 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if that turns out to be TC, the followup question is, what if only one side can detect a nearby tape head? I feel like that might be able to do AORS but am not sure
< 1723477773 611069 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ooh, I think it's TC like this: have a protocol where if you immediately send the tape head back the way it came, it always bounces, then you can communicate to the next cell in the direction it was moving via bouncing backwards a given number of times
< 1723477794 230621 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and if you want to communicate back the way you came, communicate "please bounce me" to the cell beyond and then bounce off it
< 1723477819 190763 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this will lead to some amount of spurious "nearby" signals to the cells beyond the cells you're bouncing from – but they can remember how many times they were bounced on and compensate for it
< 1723477887 702535 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually I guess this would be a lot more elegant if it had "don't move" as an option in addition to left and right
< 1723477895 385921 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :even if it isn't strictly required
< 1723477924 141364 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah each cell can detect whether the head is coming from the left or right even if it can only peek to one side.
< 1723477932 521561 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm
< 1723477950 730210 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, it can record the direction in which the head last moved away from that cell
< 1723477978 898148 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because the head can't teleport, it has to arrive back on the same side
< 1723478048 114482 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm. Tricky.
< 1723478060 657894 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, with a "don't move" option and affecting only the cell on one side, you can do AORS directly, can't you? just stay in place once to show oddness and don't do that to show evenness
< 1723478137 210628 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in fact it is much more powerful than AORS because you can communicate both the total parity of all the cells so far, and the parity of the cell immediately to the left
< 1723478166 962348 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which probably is enough power to dodge the exponential slowdown
< 1723478228 376445 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure how you deal with expanding rules in AORS
< 1723478249 693657 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh right, you can't
< 1723478253 450254 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I forgot about those
< 1723478270 482173 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is there enough power for 2C?
> 1723478294 955678 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07001014]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=135703 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+308) 10Created page with "'''0010''' is a esolang with 3 commands, created by [[User:Yayimhere]] === syntax === 0010 has these 3 commands: * 1 flip the end of the code. if its # however it will go back ten chars * 0 add the following command to the end of the code *  1723478404 524646 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07001014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135704&oldid=135703 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-308) 10Blanked the page
> 1723478475 218115 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07013414]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=135705 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+398) 10Created page with "'''0134''' is a esolang with 4 commands, created by [[User:Yayimhere]] === syntax === 0010 has these 4 commands: * 1 flip the end of the code. * 0 add the following command to the end of the code * 3 skip the following command *  1723478772 369926 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135706&oldid=135698 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+8) 10/* my-new-esolang.txt interpreter */  fixed
> 1723478788 983033 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07013414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135707&oldid=135705 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+0) 10
< 1723478812 861864 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, I just realised that the two-sided version can trivially emulate the one-sided version by just not reacting if the pointer last moved away in a particular direction
< 1723478880 615656 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`unidecode <
< 1723478884 660973 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​[U+003C LESS-THAN SIGN]
< 1723478886 341700 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`unidecode =
< 1723478887 492575 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​[U+003D EQUALS SIGN]
< 1723478889 504482 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`unidecode >
< 1723478890 415241 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​[U+003E GREATER-THAN SIGN]
< 1723478897 142591 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah good, I thought those were consecutive but wanted to make sure
< 1723478920 634002 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :You can probably control spurious upodates by using blocks of multiple cells to simulate a single cell of something-like-a-TM.
> 1723479001 34197 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07013414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135708&oldid=135707 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+286) 10
> 1723479035 187359 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135709&oldid=135706 5* 03Unname4798 5* (-1) 10fix my-new-esolang.txt interpreter
< 1723479068 212378 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( up-oh!-dates? )
< 1723479088 783869 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :afk for a bit
> 1723479176 79272 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07013414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135710&oldid=135708 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+0) 10This esolang is already called 0134.
> 1723479292 302222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135711&oldid=135396 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+12) 10/* Esolangs */
> 1723479356 46650 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135712&oldid=135711 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+17) 10/* Esolangs */
< 1723479656 688720 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`unicode LOWERCASE GREEK LETTER SIGMA
< 1723479658 261993 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :No output.
< 1723479661 166737 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm
< 1723479688 113528 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`unicode GREEK SMALL LETTER SIGMA
< 1723479689 225867 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​σ
< 1723479694 487531 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :seriously, Unicode Consortium, "small"?
> 1723480061 523983 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135713&oldid=135575 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+27) 10/* Errors */
> 1723480090 471231 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07013414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135714&oldid=135710 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+630) 10
> 1723480237 216123 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07013414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135715&oldid=135714 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+118) 10/* computational class */
> 1723480337 445961 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07013414]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135716&oldid=135715 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+0) 10correct number of commands
< 1723480834 20451 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`unicode GREEK SMALL LETTER TAU
< 1723480835 942 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​τ
> 1723482284 655133 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EDE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135717&oldid=135709 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (-7) 10minimalization
> 1723482446 332565 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Near-Turing machine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=135718 5* 03Ais523 5* (+7100) 10a Turing-machine-like thing I've been thinking about recently
> 1723482514 960879 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135719&oldid=126376 5* 03Ais523 5* (+54) 10+[[Near-Turing machine]]
> 1723482697 729114 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135720&oldid=135713 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+50) 10/* Errors */
> 1723482835 739723 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135721&oldid=135720 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+174) 10/* Cat program */
< 1723482903 501962 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: okay, baby steps for me. Here's something explicit for the case of +/-1 context length and optional moves: https://paste.debian.net/1326181/ ...the idea is that cells contain two "glue" values that are synchronized between cells which are used to communicate the successor state
< 1723482959 281480 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :why am I writing ([ ... ]). Oh well.
< 1723483079 237246 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but maybe that's clumsy
< 1723483281 188363 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Now what is 2C.
< 1723483412 43356 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Your oracle problem is, to me, very similar to the problem of initial tape setups: what's the minimum number of *additional* states required to augment a TM with a given initial tape? It would be a very good natural BB setup, although I think it's on the same level of difficulty as BB itself.
< 1723483469 686004 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see. Yeah that looks like a great target for the one-sided context case. Couplet 2C in particular.
< 1723483573 293793 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you'll have to mark the unused part of the tape but that's pretty normal
< 1723483730 301113 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: actually I think your question is equivalent to asking, what's the simplest machine for which there's an input which doesn't halt but that's not provable. if there's no such state then the universal algorithm that just brute force looks for proofs that the machine (on the input starting state) halts or doesn't halt works as the oracle.
> 1723483747 480169 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135722&oldid=135721 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+57) 10/* Truth-machine */
< 1723483831 447923 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: there's a spectrum there... I mean what if the input needs to be super long and complicated?
< 1723483957 844472 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, I'm not entirely sure of this equivalence. 
< 1723483966 123033 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: why is that a problem?
< 1723483998 57498 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you don't need to present the input explicitly
< 1723484015 839045 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :There should be a Kolmogorov cutoff, and that should establish the non-triviality of the oracle (since the lookup table it would store would then not be wholly computable, but only computable up to the cutoff.)
< 1723484016 508040 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Well the input is part of the problem in ais523's version so it'd be measured by its simplicity metric.
< 1723484019 542402 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Whatever that is.
< 1723484050 247372 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: While you only measure the TM, so you made a narrower choice. It's not a problem, but it is a difference.
< 1723484098 682869 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm sure Kolmogorov and Chaitin would look at a joint encoding of TM and initial tape for this.
< 1723484332 755207 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :You gotta. For what if the initial tape is easy to generate from the TM's existing states? In some sense, that initial tape is only hard to encode when its information is not closely related to the computation being performed.
< 1723484382 554299 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :For example, Collatz is sensitive to powers of two and three; you can deliberately wind it up by giving it lots of powers of two. But nothing in Collatz *multiplies* by two; it's all division by two, so such an initial tape is more Kolmogorov-expensive than others.
< 1723484400 755877 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if it's easy to generate it should be encoded as a program :)
< 1723484417 336611 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is really what Kolmogorov complexity is all about
< 1723484440 551323 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :as for my question for two-state turing machines, I think I know the simple answer
< 1723484463 655647 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes?
< 1723484477 348159 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :give me a moment, I'm reading the backlog for what you answered
< 1723484494 643310 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, I'm not just duplicating the answer
< 1723484545 757397 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have a weakness for directly simulating Turing machines.
> 1723484573 759621 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135723&oldid=135722 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+352) 10
< 1723484961 394432 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so you have a turing machine that you want to simulate. the simulating machine simulates each cell on the old tape with the corresponding one cell on the new tape. the idea is to write to the tape the simulated state one bit by one bit, taking two steps for each of those bits, carrying the bit in the state of your simulating machine. a tape call is either inert, or you're moving away from it in the 
< 1723484967 550048 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :simulated machine, or you're moving to it in the simulated machine, or it's just on the boundary when you just did the last thing to move onto it and you can start the next simualted move. the tape symbol always stores at least the simulated tape symbol. if you're moving away from that tape cell then it stores the old state of the simulated machine plus how many bits you've copied so far. if you're 
< 1723484973 563212 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :moving onto the cell then it stores an incomplete prefix of the binary encoding of the new state of the simulated machine. 
< 1723484998 362044 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I probably should have been able to solve this without asking.)
< 1723485045 343487 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm that sounds very similar to what I did.
< 1723485133 901638 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh yeah, the new tape cell also has to store the direction you're moving in the simulated machine.
< 1723485135 556030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :You can optimize a bit (but it's just a small constant factor on the number of symbols); instead of storing the old state, store what remains to be copied of the new state plus the direction you're copying to.
< 1723485160 122552 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yep
< 1723485658 777292 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh you don't even need the direction bit there; you can once again communicate that in the state
< 1723485683 416124 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(as usual there are many small tweaks)
< 1723485778 702487 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523 “seriously, Unicode Consortium, ‘small’?” => it's "small" because "lower case" is an anachronistic name of the "carriage return" kind, it was named that for pre-digital typography, and even of a mostly obsolete version of that that required a lot of manual labor, where instances of the individual glyph template (types) for printing were stored in an open top box with lots of compartments, 
< 1723485784 776876 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :usually one compartment for each possible glyph, and the typesetter person manually hunted for each glyph in sequence to assemble to a page. "upper case" and "lower case" were called that because the lower case letters were in compartments closer to the typesetter person, so lower, since the box is slanted. when unicode was invented, this form of typesetting was mostly obsolete anyway in favor of 
< 1723485790 785384 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :machines that automated most of the job of the typesetter, and it was clear enough that if unicode (and by extension digital computers for character data) would be successful then that kind of typesetting will be completely obsolete. it doesn't help that the traditional typesetting also involved poisoning the typesetter with lead. 
< 1723485836 379879 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I think you need the direction bit in the simulated cell that you're moving to, since the direction is decided by the tape symbol and old state of the cell you're moving away from. 
< 1723485867 753491 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also "small" is just shorter than "lower case"
< 1723485887 871635 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or "lowercase" as you called it
> 1723485890 594075 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Near-Turing machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135724&oldid=135718 5* 03Ais523 5* (+404) 10/* Computational class */ explain the startup state
< 1723485927 162013 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But "fifth" and "filth" are tall words despite being all lower case :P
< 1723485927 436002 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"uppercase" and "lowercase" are indeed anachronisms, but lowercase letters are not always small
< 1723485937 772319 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so that name is a misdescription
< 1723485974 892410 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, what direction does the shift button move the levers in typewriters?
< 1723485990 205031 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it wouldn't surprise me if it were upwards, so maybe typewriters have an effective upper case and lower case too
< 1723486107 41668 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well on the mechanical typewriter I once played with, the levers shifted upwards so the lower row would be aligned with the ribbon
< 1723486146 547012 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: admittedly there are a few exceptions like þ and f and ф where the lowercase letter might be larger than the uppercase in some fonts, but generally the lowercase is smaller than the uppercase so  I think that's a fine name
< 1723486148 72923 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so there are quite a few changes of directions :)
< 1723486260 946631 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(lifting the levers means that gravity can push them down when you release the shift key)
< 1723486280 86030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or pull
< 1723486327 691547 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(neither of these words properly describes sliding down the gravity well :P)
< 1723486450 237889 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe it has a lower and upper, but I don't think any of those are called "case"
< 1723486475 817466 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the "case" is of course a proper type setting thing
< 1723486478 313953 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :term
< 1723486510 898186 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also I got lost in the changes of directions myself
< 1723486528 123089 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the lower case letters are the default and thus end up on top in the type writer
< 1723486660 277693 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, the lowercase letters get struck when the case is in its low position, and the uppercase letters get struck when the case is in its high position, but that means that the lowercase letters are physically above the uppercase letters
< 1723486693 898170 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah
< 1723486740 979834 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's funny how I said how easy it is to get lost without realizing that I was lost...
< 1723486782 128007 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it crosses my mind that incremental near-Turing machines might be interesting for busy beaver experiments, as a) they have few symmetries, so you don't have to try hard to eliminate redundant programs, b) they only have one dimension of complexity (the number of states)
< 1723486820 289254 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, I need to go
< 1723486823 411790 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1723486954 898460 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :why does YT sometimes randomly give me a layout with the comments to the right...
< 1723486965 193617 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's so weird
< 1723490281 388008 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: does it depend only on (1) whether the video is a shorts, (2) on the aspect ratio of the video, (3) whether the video is a livestream with comments enabled?
< 1723490293 995330 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also whether you're in theater mode and the browser window size
< 1723490339 485630 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I reloaded and got the other layout with recommended videos on the right
< 1723490370 939753 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it's an ordinary on demand video, long, 16:9, with comments enabled
< 1723490375 859237 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ACTION shrugs
< 1723490870 512996 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: for me on a small proportion of random videos youtube is broken in a way where it starts to play the video but stops after a few minutes, can continue if I reload the page but always stops playing soon again. which videos they are seems to be consistent. might be related to ISP, Firefox, plugins and settings, google account etc. I don't know
< 1723490909 887863 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :odd
< 1723490951 415879 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe related to them inserting ads mid-stream? Who knows.
< 1723490990 327853 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have the occasional experience that a video won't start at all (or, rather, play for half a second and stop). Which is fixable by reloading.
< 1723491010 542915 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ACTION shrugs
< 1723491031 553901 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :at some point they'll figure out how to force ads on me and I'll stop using the service :P
< 1723491091 238065 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :This shapez.io blueprint speedrun is so refined... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qh9zRg12Tg ...note how he builds some extra stuff so that the final two shapes finish around the same time.
< 1723491104 915285 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or she, shouldn't assume
< 1723491180 446270 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: is that set seed or unseen random seed?
< 1723491203 839843 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :probably doesn't change too much for just blueprint%
< 1723491254 938884 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :seed only matters for finding enough nice shapes containing star or windmill for when you want to set up lots of production, like for a MAM
< 1723491286 272633 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :set seed I think since he loads a savegame
< 1723491357 824649 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no wait
< 1723491371 930285 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :they delete a save game and then click "new game" so random seed
< 1723491372 902587 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :my bad
< 1723491544 224915 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wow. that speedrun builds a short tunnel under the hub at one point.
< 1723491576 192582 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I know in theory that in just a blueprint% speedrun you won't be using all 16 inputs of the hub, but it still looks so wrong
> 1723492820 74969 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Old Branjunk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135725&oldid=135635 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-685) 10oh
> 1723493027 660253 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135726&oldid=135723 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+13) 10/* 99 bottles of beer */
> 1723493059 297213 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135727&oldid=135726 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-6) 10/* Commands */
> 1723495302 986159 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Meta-meta-meta-meta-meta14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=135728 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+470) 10Created page with "== layers == === layer 1 ===  state * alive  become dead on 4 alive  become dead on 7 dead  state   dead  become alive on 3 alive and 5 dead === layer 2 ===  s turns to state  b turns to become  o turns to on  a turns to and === layer 3 ===  before 
> 1723495444 734913 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/alpaca flavor14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=135729 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+176) 10Created page with "alpaca tommyaweosme flavor   state n m:  turns to y on 4 b  state a b:  turns to m on 4 y  state x y:  turns to b on 4 m and 2 y  you probably have a good feel on my flavor now"
> 1723495670 515391 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/alpaca scripts14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=135730 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+299) 10Created page with "== rock paper scissors ==  state * rock:  turns to paper on 1 paper  state O paper:  turns to scissors on 1 scissors  state v scissors:  turns to paper on 1 paper == replicator ==  number odd:  exactly 2or4or6or8  state * alive:  turns to de
> 1723496605 62981 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Meta-meta-meta-meta-meta14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135731&oldid=135728 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+31) 10Stub, category
> 1723496735 74756 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deoxyribose14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135732&oldid=135663 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+114) 10Stub, external resource
> 1723496866 989079 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wireless Coolbeans14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135733&oldid=135644 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+129) 10See also, categories
> 1723496936 397647 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Coolbeans14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135734&oldid=132668 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+138) 10See also, categories
> 1723496977 676108 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Games i made up with triangle magnets that i turned into brainfuck encodings14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=135735 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+960) 10Created page with "= Twin triangles = Twin triangles is a way to encode [[brainfuck]]. == How it works == You stack two stacks of 3 brainfuck commands.  ><  +[  -] Then, you can preform these actions on it: === TS - 
< 1723498452 56851 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1723499807 338688 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.146.197 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
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< 1723503005 607624 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://zyme.dev/ New language designed for genetic programming. Is the author here, by chance?
> 1723504931 199343 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ELBOG14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135736&oldid=135388 5* 03CPNK 5* (+12150) 10add deadfish interpreter and web interpreter
> 1723505481 579463 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ELBOG14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135737&oldid=135736 5* 03CPNK 5* (+97) 10add cat program
> 1723506458 174317 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03PoptartPlungerBoi 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Ifthenelsediagram.png10]]": diagram
> 1723506480 821410 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nice14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135739&oldid=131394 5* 03PoptartPlungerBoi 5* (+8) 10/* If Then Else */
> 1723506632 798558 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nice14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135740&oldid=135739 5* 03PoptartPlungerBoi 5* (-251) 10/* If Then Else */
> 1723506792 61045 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nice14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135741&oldid=135740 5* 03PoptartPlungerBoi 5* (-9) 10/* Brief History */
> 1723506812 839737 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nice14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=135742&oldid=135741 5* 03PoptartPlungerBoi 5* (-140) 10/* Introduction */