......
> 1725160242 287079 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07... Bottles of beer on the wall14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137538&oldid=137537 5* 03None1 5* (-1) 10/* Cat program] */
> 1725160307 194681 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137539&oldid=137286 5* 03None1 5* (+38) 10/* Non-alphabetic */
> 1725160323 574597 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07... Bottles of beer on the wall14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137540&oldid=137538 5* 03None1 5* (+6) 10
> 1725160372 992211 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137541&oldid=137272 5* 03None1 5* (+120) 10/* My Esolangs */
> 1725160456 712747 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dead fish +- +.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137542&oldid=137274 5* 03None1 5* (+45) 10
> 1725160679 291730 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PlusOrOutput14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137543&oldid=118648 5* 03None1 5* (+1) 10/* Hello World */
> 1725160845 413242 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PlusOrOutput14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137544&oldid=137543 5* 03None1 5* (+1013) 10/* Interpreter for PlusOrOutput only (in Python) */  Add interpreters in JS
< 1725161106 65165 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1725161217 532617 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1725161341 769733 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which file format can be used if I want a key/value database which is mostly reading and not writing, and the key and value are both sequences of bytes, and that if you find a specific record then you can easily find all records that have the same key as a prefix (and that you can also do so even if there is no such record for the requested key)?
< 1725161984 289623 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: the last property you talk about sounds like a B+ tree; I know there are database formats based on those
< 1725162037 36814 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if write performance is completely unimportant you could use a list of key/value pairs sorted by the key, and use binary search to find entries
< 1725162126 619836 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you're looking for more of a standard file format, SQLite should work, storing one table with an index on the key
> 1725162189 696394 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Interpret Esolangs Online14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137545&oldid=127630 5* 03None1 5* (+39) 10/* Introduction */  PIO and POO are now supported
> 1725162405 205347 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PlusOrOutput14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137546&oldid=137544 5* 03None1 5* (+4570) 10/* Interpreters for both languages in JavaScript */
> 1725162900 706964 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Translated Shakespeare14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137547 5* 03None1 5* (+264) 10Created page with "You can translate using the wrong language to get wierd translations. --~~~~"
> 1725163000 959914 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Page crapper from explain xkcd14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137548&oldid=137515 5* 03None1 5* (+215) 10
> 1725163284 378494 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07NameError without a quine with a quine without a quine with a quine without a quine with an iterating quine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137549 5* 03None1 5* (+594) 10Created page with "'''NameError without a quine with a quine without a quine with a quine without a quine with an iterating quine''' is an esolang invented by [[User:None1]].  It is [[NameErro
> 1725163436 450083 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137550&oldid=137260 5* 03None1 5* (+443) 10/* Error simulators */
> 1725163643 186676 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137551&oldid=137541 5* 03None1 5* (+854) 10/* My Esolangs */
> 1725163697 734450 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137552&oldid=137551 5* 03None1 5* (+30) 10
> 1725163745 471849 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137553&oldid=137552 5* 03None1 5* (+36) 10/* My Esolangs */
> 1725163751 920794 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07C@++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137554&oldid=133820 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+861) 10Made the language much more powerful/expressive with new commands
< 1725163957 784711 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
> 1725164021 980876 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Nope.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137555&oldid=134527 5* 03None1 5* (+313) 10/* + interpreter using Nope. */
> 1725164148 321064 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Nope.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137556&oldid=137555 5* 03None1 5* (+121) 10/* + interpreter using Nope. */
> 1725164225 63748 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:C@14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137557&oldid=109970 5* 03None1 5* (+275) 10
> 1725164237 478230 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:C@14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137558&oldid=137557 5* 03None1 5* (+12) 10
> 1725164298 583869 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07C@++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137559&oldid=137554 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+353) 10Added some examples
> 1725164514 879861 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:BoundedBeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137560&oldid=135046 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+123) 10
> 1725164545 426579 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137561&oldid=137539 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+25) 10
> 1725165057 994765 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dead fish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137562&oldid=137269 5* 03None1 5* (+25) 10
< 1725165622 979754 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1725165623 331656 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1725165657 575826 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Client Quit
< 1725165678 640000 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1725165695 759120 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse
> 1725165713 661810 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137563&oldid=137506 5* 03None1 5* (+340) 10
< 1725165951 35483 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Write performance is not completely unimportant, but read performance is more important. I would also expect that when writes occur, several records will be written at once rather than one at a time (although one at a time is also possible, but less likely).
< 1725166078 914998 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1725166714 787729 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: if write preformance is *completely* unimportant then you should sort the whole table after each write and do some kind of binary search among sorted records for reading. but a writable B-tree isn't really much worse than that.
< 1725166768 632634 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I think sqlite3 might work decently for what you want
< 1725166860 742184 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had considered the SQLite4 format, which is a real key/value database unlike SQLite3.
< 1725166877 70194 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well... it's not perfect, if you can have multiples of the key then it might not be the best format, or you need some kind of trick for it where you append a unique identifier column and make the two columns together the primary key, so that you can have just one table WITHOUT ROWID table, rather than a table and a separate index
< 1725166904 772837 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait, is that possible?
< 1725166922 727169 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know
< 1725166952 52707 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if not then you have to put them in one single column where you artificially append something to your key to make it unique
< 1725167038 241290 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :mind you, the separate index mostly just makes the write performance worse if you make that index contain all columns
< 1725167048 838392 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so even a normal table can work
< 1725167125 993280 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, I guess just use a normal table with an index covering both the key and value columns, and don't make the key primary or unique since you want to allow it to repeat
< 1725167277 514015 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you want to find all records with a prefix then write a comparison like WHERE key BETWEEN ?1 AND ?2 but you bind ?2 to the same as ?1 incremented by 1 when interpreted as a big-endian number
< 1725167304 858829 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it's as if WHERE key BETWEEN 'one' AND 'onf'
< 1725167316 80368 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :only you probably use blobs instead of strings
< 1725167443 169150 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, that would do, although SQL is more than is needed, I think, especially if it is merely a key/value database. I do understand what you mean and had thought of that too but it seems much more complicated than it should be.
< 1725167473 510905 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it certainly is, but you don't need to use all the features
< 1725167527 82057 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also make sure to read https://sqlite.org/howtocompile.html 
< 1725167570 895434 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's a lot of optional features that you usually needn't compile into sqlite3 if you aren't like making debian with a thousand packages depending on sqlite3, and they now have good documentation describing these compile-time settings
< 1725167714 41644 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(you've probably read it already, but the documentation is kind of new so I want to mention it)
< 1725168283 319995 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1725168905 468718 :bookworms!~bookworms@user/bookworms QUIT :Quit: I give the F*%k up! Have a nice day!
> 1725169121 845699 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07lang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137564&oldid=132867 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+73) 10Fixed [[wenyan]] interpreter
> 1725169198 923096 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137565&oldid=136954 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+35) 10
> 1725169451 258750 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated Die Deutsche Programmiersprache14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137566 5* 03None1 5* (+2563) 10Created page with "There have been lots of horribly translations of esolangs in English and Chinese, this time let's translate one that isn't.  '''Translated Die Deutsche Programmiersprache''' is an esolang invented by [[User:None1]]. It is [[Die Deutsche 
> 1725169506 783782 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137567&oldid=137550 5* 03None1 5* (+118) 10/* Horribly translated variants */
< 1725169607 217392 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@123.64.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1725169613 276872 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137568&oldid=137553 5* 03None1 5* (+88) 10/* My Esolangs */
> 1725170457 805740 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Foo : The term 'foo' is not recognized as the name of a cmdlet, function, script file, or operable program. Check the spelling of the name, or if a path was included, verify that the path is correct and try again.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137569&oldid=131324 5* 03None1 5* (+33) 10/* See also */
> 1725170512 432152 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137570&oldid=133843 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-2222) 10/* Triangular CPU */
> 1725170538 66869 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137571&oldid=137570 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-226) 10/* idea 2 */
> 1725170652 550381 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Is not recognized as the name of a cmdlet, function, script file, or operable program. Check the spelling of the name, or if a path was included, verify that the path is correct and try again.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137572&oldid=131489 5* 03None1 5* (-14) 10/* Examples */  no spaces
> 1725171188 438668 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wow owo14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137573 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+3332) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} '''wow owo''' is a [[Cellular automaton]] created by [[User:Yayimhere]] while bored == cell types and interactions == cell types: * # copies itself in every direction(no diags). if 3 come in a  horizontal cluster walls form around them( 1725171989 561307 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137574&oldid=137456 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+14) 10
> 1725172617 197508 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137575&oldid=137563 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+99) 10
> 1725172678 788992 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Undelta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137576&oldid=137512 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+4) 10/* Syntax */
> 1725172746 733863 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Markov algorithm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137577&oldid=137523 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+112) 10
> 1725172803 976205 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Markov algorithm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137578&oldid=137577 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+12) 10
> 1725172908 686783 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Undelta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137579&oldid=137576 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+0) 10
> 1725172923 455141 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Undelta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137580&oldid=137579 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+0) 10
> 1725173084 34624 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Undelta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137581&oldid=137580 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+21) 10
> 1725173094 352864 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137582 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+3069) 10Created page with " is an Esolang designed by PSTF which inspired from [[Bottles of beer on the wall]].  == Exmaples == === 1-time Cat Program === 
      ..."
> 1725173134 849488 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Undelta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137583&oldid=137581 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+1) 10
> 1725173137 956399 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137584&oldid=137582 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+64) 10
> 1725173155 14577 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Undelta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137585&oldid=137583 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-22) 10
> 1725173170 778959 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137586&oldid=137561 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+28) 10
> 1725173199 965530 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Undelta14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137587 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+126) 10Created page with "so would `1 push one? --~~~~"
> 1725173290 114423 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137588&oldid=134864 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+473) 10/* English */ new section
> 1725173309 111743 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137589&oldid=137588 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+5) 10TM
< 1725173315 264198 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1725173541 709759 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137590&oldid=137044 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+641) 10/* I might ! need an English page for . */ new section
< 1725173578 113165 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1725173648 538889 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:Audio Output14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137591&oldid=106427 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+23) 10
> 1725173681 23679 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:XKCD Random Number14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137592&oldid=137273 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+39) 10
> 1725173977 842847 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07U (PrySigneToFry)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137593&oldid=137422 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+130) 10
> 1725174033 354773 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137594&oldid=137586 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+8) 10
> 1725174196 549583 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07U (PrySigneToFry)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137595&oldid=137593 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+82) 10
> 1725174231 235 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07U (PrySigneToFry)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137596&oldid=137595 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+20) 10
> 1725174246 729755 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07U (PrySigneToFry)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137597&oldid=137596 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (-2) 10
> 1725174615 207919 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Undelta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137598&oldid=137587 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+129) 10
> 1725174686 50110 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I am sure this is the shortest code for 99 bottles of beer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137599&oldid=115858 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (-31036) 10
> 1725174758 519206 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137600 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+21) 10Redirected page to [[Undelta]]
< 1725175401 571531 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :today somebody had already written a truth machine in word worm. damn
> 1725175505 442413 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Cycwin14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137601 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+952) 10Sdac2
> 1725175703 69978 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sdac214]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137602 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+952) 10Sdac2
> 1725175974 712862 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Cycwin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137603&oldid=137601 5* 03Cycwin 5* (-770) 10
> 1725176035 967495 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sdac214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137604&oldid=137602 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+7) 10
> 1725177325 560179 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137605 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+813) 10Created page with "'''0x80070050''' or '''sorry this file exists'''(which is what this error code is for...for the file existing) is a esolang created by [[User:Yayimhere]] inspired by [[An Odd Rewriting System]]. it really just annoys you == memory == there are 3 memory things: *  1725177371 423368 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137606&oldid=137605 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+23) 10
> 1725177623 293910 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137607&oldid=137606 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+91) 10
> 1725177784 609566 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137608&oldid=137607 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+100) 10
> 1725177931 774304 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137609&oldid=137608 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+77) 10
> 1725178216 323820 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137610&oldid=137574 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+17) 10
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< 1725178486 104882 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1725179086 674516 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1725179095 699023 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:An Odd Rewriting System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137611&oldid=109641 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+142) 10/* contradiction in computational class proof? */
< 1725179222 950293 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname
< 1725180864 36880 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1725180937 355108 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse
< 1725181400 966551 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1725181679 405639 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@123.64.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
> 1725181914 559222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:An Odd Rewriting System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137612&oldid=137611 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+92) 10/* what was the limitation */
> 1725181960 655426 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137613&oldid=137609 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+77) 10
> 1725182342 871278 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137614&oldid=137613 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+51) 10/* syntax */
< 1725182358 319760 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
> 1725182420 62231 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137615&oldid=137614 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+92) 10
< 1725182540 768214 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1725183266 328600 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1725183565 885691 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Ractangle 5*  10moved [[02User:Ractangle/rt10]] to [[User:Linxium]]
> 1725183574 778182 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Ractangle 5*  10moved [[02User:Linxium10]] to [[Linxium]]
> 1725183591 684160 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Ractangle 5*  10moved [[02Linxium10]] to [[LX]]
> 1725183697 879025 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LX14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137622&oldid=137620 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+6) 10categories
> 1725183721 730010 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LX14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137623&oldid=137622 5* 03Unname4798 5* (-28) 10
> 1725183815 233802 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Unname4798 5*  10moved [[02LX10]] to [[Rt]]
> 1725183832 84341 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137626&oldid=137624 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+14) 10lowercase
> 1725184706 506150 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137627&oldid=137626 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+173) 10
> 1725184715 291955 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move_redir10 02 5* 03Ractangle 5*  10moved [[02Rt10]] to [[LX]] over redirect
> 1725184715 305197 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete_redir10 02 5* 03Ractangle 5*  10Ractangle deleted redirect [[02LX10]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Rt]]"
> 1725184769 216177 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LX14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137630&oldid=137628 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-35) 10/* Hello, world! */
< 1725186148 924252 :amby!~ambylastn@2a00:23c5:ce05:7801:aae1:bcdd:627d:71bd JOIN #esolangs * :realname
< 1725186232 4517 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1725186596 910061 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LX14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137631&oldid=137630 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+195) 10
> 1725188043 670727 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:An Odd Rewriting System14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137632&oldid=137612 5* 03Ais523 5* (+448) 10/* what was the limitation */ it's hard to explain simply, which is why I made an esolang to demonstrate it
> 1725189745 309826 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137633&oldid=137215 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+9) 10/* Esolangs */
< 1725189905 425113 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1725189991 193188 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1725192194 827716 :mtm!~textual@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1725192349 951799 :mtm!~textual@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1725194338 881128 :bookworms!~bookworms@user/bookworms JOIN #esolangs bookworms :bookworms
< 1725194573 203757 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@123.64.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt QUIT :Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)
> 1725194617 526346 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137634&oldid=137590 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+179) 10/* I might ! need an English page for . */
> 1725194672 539274 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Page crapper from explain xkcd14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137635&oldid=137548 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+178) 10
< 1725194826 401660 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1725194913 884623 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown
< 1725195184 839573 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1725195921 811010 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07/English version14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137636 5* 03None1 5* (+3029) 10Translate as the author requested
> 1725195960 46463 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137637&oldid=137634 5* 03None1 5* (+50) 10/* I might ! need an English page for . */
> 1725195968 667119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137638&oldid=137637 5* 03None1 5* (+195) 10/* I might ! need an English page for . */
> 1725195996 643008 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137639&oldid=135178 5* 03None1 5* (+74) 10
< 1725197598 68461 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1725200361 331220 :impomatic3!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fbd:8001:d8c8:87ae:1405:e6af JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
< 1725202994 888265 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :do chemists use methanol for household cleaning, like cleaning the outsides of their mobile phones and rubik's cubes, or do they use it only for cleaning in their laboratory?
> 1725203120 96286 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03OllyBritton 5*  10New user account
> 1725203268 299807 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137640&oldid=137339 5* 03OllyBritton 5* (+216) 10
> 1725204317 141771 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137641&oldid=137531 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+258) 10
> 1725204355 886077 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137642&oldid=137641 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (-5498) 10Replaced content with "hello  this is a wip  archives at [[/Archives|here]]"
> 1725204364 327770 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137643&oldid=137642 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+0) 10
> 1725204384 571573 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme/archives/july 31 to september 114]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137644 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+5550) 10Created page with "{{User:Tommyaweosme/tabs}}  You can see block details at [https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Tommyaweosme/blockedlist&action=raw User:Tommyaweosme/blockedlist].  meow  if youve got any questions, ask em here. 
> 1725204414 115779 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme/archives14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137645&oldid=134352 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (-161) 10
> 1725204443 624585 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme/archives14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137646&oldid=137645 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+0) 10
> 1725204546 394297 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137647&oldid=137643 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (-3) 10
> 1725204641 928735 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/common.css14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137648 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+14) 10Created page with "a{color:pink;}"
< 1725204726 89869 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1725204853 608128 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137649&oldid=137648 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+195) 10
< 1725204930 874677 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
> 1725205036 503924 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137650&oldid=137649 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+93) 10
< 1725205067 319529 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
> 1725205216 293515 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137651&oldid=137638 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+491) 10/* i want everything to be pink */ new section
> 1725205291 917643 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137652&oldid=137615 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+240) 10
> 1725205374 240322 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137653&oldid=137650 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (-264) 10testing
> 1725205376 108538 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137654&oldid=137651 5* 03Ais523 5* (+328) 10/* i want everything to be pink */ !important
> 1725205481 56018 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137655&oldid=137653 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+6) 10
> 1725205541 246619 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137656&oldid=137655 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+18) 10
> 1725205580 796762 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137657&oldid=137654 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+190) 10
> 1725205683 377924 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname4798/vector.css14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137658 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+62) 10Created page with "* {background-color:pink !important; color:purple !important;}"
< 1725205739 955848 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what do you think of this esolang? and also. what could the possible computational class be?:
< 1725205740 443524 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://esolangs.org/wiki/0x80070050
> 1725205760 514019 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname4798/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137659&oldid=137658 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+0) 10Unname4798 changed the content model of the page [[User talk:Unname4798/vector.css]] from "wikitext" to "CSS"
> 1725205760 531492 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/contentmodel14]]4 change10 02 5* 03Unname4798 5*  10Unname4798 changed the content model of the page [[02User talk:Unname4798/vector.css10]] from "wikitext" to "CSS"
> 1725205783 189746 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Unname4798 5*  10moved [[02User talk:Unname4798/vector.css10]] to [[User:Unname4798/vector.css]]
> 1725205844 119264 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move_redir10 02 5* 03Unname4798 5*  10moved [[02User:Unname4798/vector.css10]] to [[User talk:Unname4798/vector.css]] over redirect
> 1725205844 133606 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete_redir10 02 5* 03Unname4798 5*  10Unname4798 deleted redirect [[02User talk:Unname4798/vector.css10]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[User:Unname4798/vector.css]]"
> 1725205887 17046 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Undelta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137664&oldid=137585 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+214) 10
> 1725205929 467469 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname4798/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137665&oldid=137662 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+0) 10
< 1725205941 40667 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: it's TC, it can implement Thue almost directly (the evaluation order is a little different but that doesn't matter); you just need to design the strings so that the replacements can never match in reverse
< 1725206048 582857 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :true
< 1725206052 104234 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thx!
< 1725206065 982115 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also it isn't IO-complete because it can't output anything that's smaller than the entire internal state, but IO isn't needed for TCness
< 1725206073 105206 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1725206084 463373 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wai
< 1725206087 686568 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*wait
< 1725206094 918022 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it couldnt anyway
< 1725206099 390059 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :since it has no in
< 1725206113 323072 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah right, isn't output-complete then
< 1725206119 782627 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1725206139 397237 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what do you think of the esolang?
> 1725206149 565424 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname479814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137666&oldid=137375 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+55) 10
< 1725206247 267844 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's basically a string-rewriting esolang with awkward syntax – I generally prefer less awkward syntax, but there are merits to doing it both ways round
< 1725206263 263585 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1725206269 18890 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have been thinking more about the esolang I created yesterday, and realised that it has both an easy-to-write syntax and a very minimal, tarpitty syntax
< 1725206273 722818 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I think I might just make a page for both of htem
< 1725206286 360183 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what esolang?
< 1725206299 724692 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :word worm?
< 1725206321 312279 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, it's an arithmetic-based esolang
< 1725206330 868952 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh
< 1725206333 39493 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :link?
< 1725206333 641548 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :based on Blindfolded Arithmetic but I changed one of the rules and it makes TCness much harder to prove
< 1725206338 461401 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I haven't written the page for it yet
< 1725206342 93274 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh k
< 1725206379 49387 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think many people think the wiki defines esolangs, but it actually mostly just documents them – esolangs can have an existence outside the wiki, and, e.g., there are plenty of golfing and puzzle languages that aren't written up there yet
< 1725206402 296048 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :occasionally I write someone else's language up to get a more comprehensive coverage of esolangs in the wiki, but not very often, and there are plenty of esolangs I don't know about
< 1725206418 271818 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i do sometimes
< 1725206424 357465 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :most of my esolangs only exists
< 1725206431 522278 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuz the website it does
< 1725206437 749651 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think I'll write an article now, though
< 1725206445 981967 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cool
> 1725206632 850607 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Yayimhere 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Logo of sorry this file exists.jpg10]]"
> 1725206647 19673 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137668&oldid=137652 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+68) 10
< 1725206736 403493 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :without the redifintion rule of sorry this file exists would it be tc?
< 1725206750 433799 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuz idk if i like it lol:)
< 1725206870 577121 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh wow, that's tricky (assuming you mean that ⟪x∧y⟫ is only legal once per program) – my guess is no but I'm not sure
< 1725206882 730947 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no
< 1725206896 134809 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i mean that ⟪x∧y⟫ is legal multiple times
< 1725206897 645970 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :BUT
< 1725206899 241587 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :now
< 1725206909 417927 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :rules are always updated with a and b
< 1725206921 481283 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but idk which one i should choose
< 1725206954 70444 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think ill choose your idea tho
< 1725206958 758960 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :credit??
< 1725206972 817461 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's only a small idea, you can credit me if you want to but don't have to
< 1725206979 503337 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1725206987 918933 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i like to give credit tho
< 1725206992 196729 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you sort-of created it yourself by mistake, by saying something I interpreted as that
< 1725207006 587772 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1725207019 647766 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i wonder if any esolangs has happend kinda like that?
> 1725207050 556934 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137669&oldid=137668 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-126) 10
> 1725207061 193265 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137670&oldid=137669 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+1) 10
< 1725207086 99758 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry about my connection
< 1725207099 384685 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1725207110 842873 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no prob with leave
> 1725207315 317538 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sorry this file exists14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137671 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+24) 10Redirected page to [[0x80070050]]
< 1725207581 167685 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1725207748 441567 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137672&oldid=136083 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+46) 10/* 0815 */
> 1725208008 667942 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Imprecision14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137673 5* 03Ais523 5* (+4428) 10new language!
< 1725208036 48701 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: ^ there's my new language
> 1725208064 592128 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137674&oldid=137594 5* 03Ais523 5* (+18) 10/* I */ + [[Imprecision]]
< 1725208069 651295 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1725208093 583380 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137675&oldid=135719 5* 03Ais523 5* (+17) 10+ [[Imprecision]]
< 1725208123 502182 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :“I think many people think the wiki defines esolangs, but it actually mostly just documents them” => true, I most often document esolangs that already exist on the wiki
< 1725208129 542299 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/on/onto/
< 1725208153 640953 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wut
< 1725208171 426043 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cool ais523
< 1725208200 461339 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: depending on what you mean, maybe: I created https://esolangs.org/wiki/Amycus by mistake 
< 1725208233 728926 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1725208242 960286 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that was pre''y much what i meant
< 1725208259 868535 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in that case I got a more esoteric and less useful language
< 1725208283 900229 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it's still interesting enough that I kept it
< 1725208295 473557 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1725208504 887613 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Imprecision#Computational_class => hmm, that's an interesting argument, I'll have to think of whether that actually works with just the operations that you have
< 1725208665 255328 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1725208855 598060 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my current tentative plan is "implement a 2-counter Minsky machine that only simulates multiplications and divisions by 2 and 3 (to get predictable behaviour of the counters), quantize the state variables sharply enough that the error term drops rapidly enough to converge if they aren't being perturbed much by reading the counters, ensure error from the counters themselves is no greater than 1 over the square of their value so that converge stoo"
< 1725208865 926929 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I don't know whether or not that actually works
< 1725208895 680720 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that was very confusing. maybe im read to fast
< 1725208896 945246 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and you would need to "reset" the error in the counters as they got near 0, but it's possible to create a quantizer that only works near 0 but doesn't disturb the value of large values very much
< 1725208897 561587 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*i
< 1725208929 823028 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also where does the name come from?
< 1725208935 637145 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: so you'd store information like your state and stack as integers, kept in the round to nearest integers parts of your variables. then in each round, you'd compute a number C that is easily an upper bound on the magnitudes of all numbers involved. then you'd write something like y = 1/(x*x*C+1), and now if x is zero then y=1, but if x is nonzero then y is close enough to zero that you can use it 
< 1725208941 656597 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in control flow by multiplying y with some almost integer and adding it to another almost integer. and you make sure that C is so large that even if you do such conditionals a few times per round (you know how long your program is) the round to nearest values are always the correct exact values that you want to simulate.
< 1725208986 593781 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: frrom my thoughts about computational class – it's very unusual to have a language that looks inherently capable of storing exact numbers, but chooses to use approximations instead
< 1725208990 686806 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and this could simulate a computation on integers that is similar to something you do in Blindfolded arithmetic
< 1725209022 337402 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523 lol
< 1725209023 617509 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: right, that's the general principle
< 1725209055 462216 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's the slight problem that this only lets you equal-compare integers, not less-than compare them, but fortunately our constructions to compile to blindfolded arithmetic are such that we can get away with just equal comparisons
< 1725209077 98075 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Minsky machines only use equal-compares anyway
< 1725209078 866698 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, we will also have to be able to compute integer remainders for the blindfolded arithmetic thing
< 1725209091 693465 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :integer reminders with some fixed divisors at least
< 1725209104 402227 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I think you can avoid that if you do a somewhat more complicated construction
< 1725209106 537608 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i have a question
< 1725209110 792990 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :would a minsk
< 1725209112 127168 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wasn't going to go via BA, just implement Minsky machines directly
< 1725209113 829563 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :machine
< 1725209116 939324 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :one that reads the top digit instead of the bottom digit
< 1725209123 882377 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that jumps when the register is NON zero
< 1725209130 216271 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :be turing complete
< 1725209131 968235 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yeah, that would be enough for TC but I don't like it if we can avoid it
< 1725209142 563184 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :still decrementing
< 1725209151 979122 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: it's still Turing-complete, you just have to reorganise the program
< 1725209160 667308 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thx
< 1725209166 230963 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the original version of Minsky machines was "jumps somewhere if zero, jumps somewhere else if nonzero"
< 1725209182 245034 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i didnt know that!
< 1725209199 227381 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and if only one of the cases jumps, you can make yourself an unconditional jump afterwards (either using an unconditional jump instruction, or a conditional jump where you already know the input) in order to make the other case jump too
< 1725209215 172628 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, this needs more taught. Imprecision turned out to be a more interesting language than I assumed yesterday when you mentioned it
< 1725209223 463104 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also isnt this program:
< 1725209223 963328 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :10 ...
< 1725209224 462933 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :20 comefrom 10
< 1725209224 963453 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the same as:
< 1725209225 463370 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :10 goto 20
< 1725209225 962618 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :20 ...
< 1725209254 677431 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sort of – it gets complicated when you have multiple gotos or comefroms aiming at the same line
< 1725209271 905154 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or if the argument to goto/comefrom is a variable or expression rather than a constant
< 1725209278 666870 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but in the simple case it's equivalent
< 1725209278 679370 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1725209284 907732 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1725209295 103535 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then why is comefrom worse than goto????
< 1725209328 824632 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because to most programmers, not knowing where the code could be jumped to is less confusing than not knowing where the code could be jumped from
< 1725209335 583455 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because it goes against the flow of the program which we usually follow when reading code
< 1725209351 321279 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1725209355 527201 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :goto is also confusing if the goto destinations aren't labelled (e.g. if every line is numbered, like in BASIC)
< 1725209368 391551 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1725209372 786498 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also
< 1725209373 182571 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although, in practice, most programmers tend to label both ends of the jump and so it doesn't matter
< 1725209375 302792 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :backwards sentence a writing like is it
< 1725209384 700201 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wouldnt it be funny if j in malbogle was a comefrom
< 1725209409 80259 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so malbolge uses computed jumps, and the program memory is mixed in with the data memory
< 1725209423 639034 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ik
< 1725209444 876667 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :meaning that if the data you were storing randomly happened to be a comefrom instruction you would end up having to comefrom multiple places as soon as the computation produced the correct value
< 1725209458 556712 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1725209459 19998 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*comefrom the current location to multiple places
< 1725209465 329166 :bookworms!~bookworms@user/bookworms QUIT :Quit: I give the F*%k up! Have a nice day!
< 1725209467 2215 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that would be very annoying
< 1725209483 733995 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i will add that to my malbolge derevative
< 1725209490 108137 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the sad thing is that I'm not even sure that this isn't TC (if you use one of the Malbolge generalisations to infinite memory)
< 1725209498 119386 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1725209539 189842 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :afaiu in some APL-likes, including very early versions of J, the main control flow mechanism to jump between entire statements was a goto (represented by a right arrow) that takes a line number, and jumps there if it's a line number or continues to the next line if it's... an empty array? or zero? there were no structured if/while statements yet. so now I'm imagining the same but with computed come 
< 1725209545 193124 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :froms that are conditional in the same way, they don't come from anywhere if the label is empty or invalid or zero
< 1725209561 227103 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: doesn't INTERCAL work like that?
< 1725209564 286888 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :note that in APL this used actual line counts, not labels, so you'd have to edit the numbers if you renumbered lines
< 1725209574 669919 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :0 isn't a valid line number there, and making COME FROM expressions evaluate to 0 when you don't want to jump is convenient
< 1725209591 172324 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1725209605 200901 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also I thought that "actual line count" was an esolang invention the first time I saw it, and was very impressed at the idea (I have subsequently discovered that I was wrong in ths)
< 1725209612 808247 :user3456_!user3456@user/user3456 JOIN #esolangs user3456 :user3456
< 1725209622 277019 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this may be a side effect of BASIC being my first programming language – I think I was about 6 at the time
< 1725209636 25182 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yes, INTERCAL works like that, but wWwwW just reminded me that other languages can have come from as well. which I had considered earlier for languages like C, python, ruby (only non-computed in C) but not yet for APL
< 1725209642 681582 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I assumed that written line numbers and RENUMBER were just normal in languages that used line numbers
< 1725209652 430274 :user3456!user3456@user/user3456 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1725209664 688413 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: your Python control flow nonsense reminds me of C setjmp, it's pretty similar
< 1725209670 317020 :user3456_!user3456@user/user3456 NICK :user3456
< 1725209684 565388 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm what happened to aspect-oriented programming :)
< 1725209696 720057 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wtf is that
< 1725209697 512585 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(that has some "come from" flavor to it)
< 1725209721 102390 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I think they were normal in APL too, but the line numbers were used in the *editor* that you can use on a printer tty without a CRT, so the line number of a line are stable even if you insert or delete lines until you renumber by saving then reloading the currently edited list of lines
> 1725209721 736057 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Huit14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137676&oldid=136641 5* 03TheCanon2 5* (+105) 10
< 1725209775 436321 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1725209789 814057 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I swear I said that before reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect-oriented_programming#Criticism
< 1725209801 856545 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: setjmp differs in that you have to actually run a statement to get a label value there, you can't jump to somewhere that the control flow hasn't visited yet. you can get around this by writing your function as a big switch statement using a state variable, but that's annoying. here I can just put labels anywhere and you can jump to them as soon as you have the stack frame.
< 1725209810 322406 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I was just about to link you to that
< 1725209831 585214 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: C-INTERCAL uses the "big switch" approach to compile COME FROM
< 1725209850 516982 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :at least in some of the complex cases; I can't remember whether it optimizes the simple case into a goto
< 1725209865 444891 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: note that https://esolangs.org/wiki/W_(Viktor_T._Toth) combines these: it uses the setjmp-like thing where you save the instruction pointer at runtime for backwards jumps, and structured if statements for forwards jumps. (except it also has function calls and even computed function calls)
< 1725209873 907390 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess I see "entering a scope" as comparable to "running a command"
< 1725209878 538381 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and W does allow you to goto a computed value
> 1725209880 593040 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Huit interpreter14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137677 5* 03TheCanon2 5* (+2978) 10Created the article
< 1725209935 196852 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I did like the Threaded INTERCAL take on coming from the same location multiple times.
< 1725209948 746671 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is the obvious solution, I think
< 1725209960 667761 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I didn't invent Threaded INTERCAL, but was the second person to write an interpreter for it)
< 1725209966 565391 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, compiler, not interpreter
< 1725209971 853050 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, yes, but sometimes the obvious thing is also nice. :)
< 1725209976 523899 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although the compilation is somewhat close to the "bundle an interpreter" method of compiling
< 1725210050 242153 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Plus there's the fact that INTERCAL is one of the earliest esolangs. So even obvious things had a good chance of being novel.
< 1725210076 294158 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1725210084 143264 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :isnt it THE first one?
< 1725210085 567468 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I can't remember when COME FROM was added to INTERCAL
< 1725210097 974633 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think
< 1725210098 5178 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :both INTERCAL and COME FROM are old, but the idea of combining them is more recent
< 1725210104 534208 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was in the C dialect
< 1725210111 368989 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but idk
< 1725210117 357733 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_esoteric_programming_languages
< 1725210120 203954 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like C-INTERCAL
< 1725210146 628441 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was C-INTERCAL I think, but not sure what date
< 1725210157 696057 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523 they werent made to be esolangs
< 1725210163 653345 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :intercal was
< 1725210179 460941 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the article I linked mentions that it's hard to define whether a language is an esolang, if it was invented before there was a concept of what a normal programming language looks like
< 1725210217 605429 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :BF was almost invented in 1964, though (P′′ is a slightly minimized version of it)
< 1725210221 870902 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Game of Life is a proper esolang.
< 1725210226 844475 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1725210274 720027 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Huh I didn't realize how close the inceptions of GoL and INTERCAL are. But GoL wins.
< 1725210320 767 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure when they proved it TC though?
< 1725210332 932542 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :intercal is TC
< 1725210339 402416 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: it took a while I think
< 1725210339 899694 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean GoL
< 1725210349 881788 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh
< 1725210351 815642 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then idk
< 1725210356 780286 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idk what GoL is
< 1725210359 674686 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, INTERCAL is obviously TC to someone who understands the subject, and IIRC one of the authors said as much
< 1725210362 241445 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and i cant find it online
< 1725210365 985028 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Conway's Game of Life
< 1725210373 217314 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that it naturally ended up TC and they didn't need to do anything to make it TC
< 1725210374 394918 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh
< 1725210383 472624 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :GoL is TC
< 1725210415 248014 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have put some thought into game-of-life golf – finding a set of primitives that let you write powerful programs in relatively small area
< 1725210426 239407 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :omg
< 1725210430 581082 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :GoL golfing
< 1725210440 39415 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :INTERCAL TC... oh right it has stacks.
< 1725210447 490745 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had an idea of using beams of spaceships and gliders that made gaps in each other, that can be quite compact and might be workable into something TC
< 1725210448 379757 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(The arrays only provide finite memory)
< 1725210460 285030 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: it's actually TC even without variables at all, but I did that one intentionally
< 1725210469 793170 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :GoL assembly lang??? perhaps?????
< 1725210476 49632 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that was the first time I almost discovered The Waterfall Model, oddly enough
< 1725210512 538140 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :some of the best esolang ideas come up time and time again in lots of different contexts, but if you've never seen the pattern before it can be hard to notice
< 1725210525 173402 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :damn
< 1725210526 948996 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well
< 1725210530 944014 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :interestijg
< 1725210549 81026 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also
< 1725210565 582182 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :does the exist any computational models, that are well...
< 1725210606 841837 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :usefull???
< 1725210625 760218 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :computational models are useful if you're studying computation
< 1725210637 704924 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like usefull
< 1725210642 186882 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to create programs
< 1725210643 995276 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like idk
< 1725210659 307264 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and any nontrivial/optimising compiler will need some computational model for representing the programs it's compiling
< 1725210667 214226 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although normally it's more complicated than the ones you'll find on the wiki
< 1725210682 164955 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh
< 1725210683 220169 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1725210689 337776 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :most of them aren't intended for writing in directly, but rather for compiling into
< 1725210691 39147 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random-access_machine is probably more boring than you want
< 1725210705 287271 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh right, that model
< 1725210708 598754 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I agree that it's both useful and boring
< 1725210723 851472 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1725210726 240338 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is
< 1725210727 442228 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
> 1725210790 123000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137678&oldid=137670 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+24) 10Category
> 1725210792 997865 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category talk:Unimplemented14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137679&oldid=34020 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+36) 10
< 1725210802 880117 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it turns out that people don't enjoy implementing random access memory on Turing machines)
< 1725210872 320526 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, should I tell PSDW to stop adding "Category:Languages" without adding the other categories at the same time?
< 1725210884 717645 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :na
< 1725210889 721935 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i don think so
< 1725210891 22128 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it just makes it harder to find uncategorized pages because they don't show up on the list of uncategorized pages any more
< 1725210895 146211 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in my opinion
< 1725210896 734437 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :true
< 1725210903 281652 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually
< 1725210921 233566 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe uncategorized could include ones with only lang?
< 1725210949 13815 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that would be a good idea, but unfortunately the definition of "uncategorized" isn't very easy to change
< 1725210957 277731 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
> 1725211000 953216 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sdac214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137680&oldid=137604 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+88) 10Lowercase, categories
> 1725211031 763379 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137681&oldid=137678 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+155) 10
< 1725211154 66613 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1725211170 123296 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSxW2jHS87g recently, in which Marc tells how the US helped the rocket engineer Von Braun move to the US around 1945, but the President didn't trust him for a while, so he wasn't allowed to participate in actual spaceflight research until the 1960s. So that and Böhm's prediscovery of brainfuck reminded me of a joke that I read somewhere and I'll retell in 
< 1725211176 123768 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a modified form here.
> 1725211180 460383 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LX14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137682&oldid=137631 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+62) 10Categories
< 1725211337 974096 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The joke plays in the 1950s, when the US tries to make rockets for spaceflight, but the rockets keep failing and the whole things costs a lot of money. The scientists recommend hiring Von Braun, but the President does not approve that. So instead they hire a spirit medium to summon the spirit of Ciolkovski. Ciolkovski takes one look at the rocket designs presented to him, then says "why do you need a 
< 1725211344 48900 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hundred scientists working on this, when I have already published a good design for the entire space rocket in my 1929 article?" A few years later, they summon the spiriti of Ciolkovski again. "Professor Ciolkovski, we built the rocket following your instructions in the 1929 article, but it exploded at launch." "Ah yes, that is the explosion problem that I solve in my 1931 article."
< 1725211371 69606 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I usually think of Gauss like this but for mathematics problems.
> 1725211397 531722 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname479814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137683&oldid=137666 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+159) 10
> 1725211399 877311 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Undelta14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137684&oldid=137664 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+67) 10Categories
> 1725211520 519958 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137685&oldid=137681 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-19) 10
> 1725211521 363241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wow owo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137686&oldid=137573 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+94) 10Categories
< 1725211580 398136 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Marc explains in the video that the rocket exploded because of a short between two diodes, since back then they didn't have the material technology for all the cheap plastic insulators that we use today. So after that, everything that the NASA built that went into the rocket was either properly capped with an insulator, or the whole circuit board and components on it were embedded in epoxy so that 
< 1725211586 392494 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :components can't move. I don't know if that's the same explosion problem that Ciolkovski had solved in the joke though.
> 1725211616 549887 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wow owo14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137687&oldid=137686 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+2) 10/* examples */
< 1725211641 124174 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :don't take "epoxy" in the strict sense above, I don't know what insulating filler material they used\
> 1725211794 855441 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Kcidea14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137688&oldid=137535 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+87) 10Stub, categories
< 1725211833 183965 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :damn
< 1725211843 310212 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :PDW is rlly active rn
< 1725211929 178540 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :only Ciolkovski is better because he actually wrote the articles, while Gauss just solved the problems and wrote down very little
< 1725211945 547427 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1725211960 810788 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I discovered recently that Gauss invented the Fast Fourier Transform algorithm, but nobody noticed until after it had already been rediscovered by modern mathematicians
< 1725211978 489951 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aaaaaa
< 1725211985 260671 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i cant get dis stupid idea of my head
< 1725211994 891589 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a esolang idea
< 1725212007 962408 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like
< 1725212019 602894 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a consistency checking esolang
> 1725212049 684169 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Blast protection14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137689&oldid=136978 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+59) 10Categories
> 1725212061 253502 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Imprecision14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137690&oldid=137673 5* 03Ais523 5* (+0) 10/* Specification */ move a sentence to a more sensible place
> 1725212137 918974 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Analogia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137691&oldid=137440 5* 03Ais523 5* (+35) 10see also
> 1725212157 687783 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07NOP (esolang)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137692&oldid=115850 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+62) 10/* More elaborate Python interpreter, but unfortunately it is incompatible with other languages */
> 1725212161 127125 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Blindfolded Arithmetic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137693&oldid=134825 5* 03Ais523 5* (+18) 10/* See also */ +[[Imprecision]]
< 1725212279 167456 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :everbody gettin active
< 1725212290 562157 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but is my esolang idea a good one
< 1725212303 278823 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not entirely sure what you mean by consistency checking
< 1725212318 290225 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1725212332 30289 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like you know how some systems are inconsistent?
< 1725212346 66932 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :could you makea. esolang with some operations and data types n' stuff
< 1725212354 613880 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to make it easy to check?
< 1725212376 355136 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it will depend on the exact meaning of "inconsistent" that you're using
> 1725212381 395225 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[070x8007005014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137694&oldid=137685 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+55) 10
< 1725212383 774538 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is hard to objectively define
< 1725212401 200745 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like. isnt it without paradoxes?
< 1725212405 424979 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i cant remember
< 1725212446 853956 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :just the way in dis yt vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeQX2HjkcNo
< 1725212452 642984 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure you can take the concept from formal logic
< 1725212464 387591 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, oh dear
< 1725212465 921538 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but not like
< 1725212466 541913 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but how do you make a language around this that is interesting?
< 1725212477 823377 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :booleans
< 1725212492 765944 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the problem here is that for a language X to be able to prove a language Y consistent, X must be *more* powerful than Y, not just equally powerful
< 1725212496 241477 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i want something where you apply operqators to a language(idk how you would store that)
< 1725212508 428607 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :unless X is inconsistent, in which case it can typically prove a lot of false statements so the proofs aren't interesting
< 1725212513 904385 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the "fundamental flaw" framing still upsets me beyond reason
< 1725212531 94984 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And I've never watched the video because of that.
< 1725212531 239778 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523 ik. thats why maybe it would only be for FSA's
< 1725212540 868335 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so your esolang will need to be more powerful than the languages it's operating on, and it's hard to do that while remaining computable (but this isn't really interesting if the language can't be implemented)
< 1725212552 625044 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1725212555 497747 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but also
< 1725212569 785123 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Plus being well too familiar with Gödel's theorems and related ones by Rosser and Tarski and Kleene and I forgot who else already)
< 1725212572 591970 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like all turing complete esolangs cant be implemented(but still yea)
< 1725212586 963266 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1725212601 872835 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1725212632 178007 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like not constructing theorems as a esolang
< 1725212639 254704 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but like apply dis and dis operaotr
< 1725212643 813579 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :until you get a bool
< 1725212646 383915 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :somehow
< 1725212647 756084 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idk'
< 1725212682 461850 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you simpify too much you probably end up in the vicinity of SAT and SMT solvers.
< 1725212705 420995 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :an esoteric SAT solver would be fun, although arguably the existing SAT solvers are esoteric already
< 1725212710 870534 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what is a SAT and SMT solver??????
< 1725212722 117156 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/and/or/
< 1725212722 640761 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually, violin already exists, sort of
< 1725212729 255071 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh
< 1725212737 158037 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :SAT is "(boolean) satisfiability"
< 1725212741 586723 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but still
< 1725212746 136137 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's in a repository and might even build if you somehow manage to figure out the right sequence of commands
< 1725212750 358854 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how would you do that
< 1725212754 462094 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :convert a lang to a bool
< 1725212757 926818 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and do it correctly
< 1725212774 396614 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :SMT is "satisfiability modulo theories"; I /could/ explain more I suppose but Wikipedia probably does a better job without any effort on my part :P
> 1725212794 563814 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nope. with no quine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137695 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+316) 10Created page with "'''Nope. with no quine''' is an esolang created by [[User:Ractangle]] based on those "None. without a quine" esolangs. it's basicly [[Nope.]] with no quine. So that basicly means:  if you put "None." to the input. The interpriter will print:   and if you pu
< 1725212796 399293 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also all inconstent things are not TC right?
< 1725212810 336219 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(violin is specialised for INTERCAL reverse assignments, like .1 $ .2 <- #12345, and works out what values to assign to the variables to make them work even if the same variable is used twice)
< 1725212824 315667 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idk
< 1725212824 553414 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :inconsistent theories have no models, so are they "things" at all :P
< 1725212837 402965 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :does what im saying even make sense?
< 1725212854 890130 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, arguably an inconsistent theory resolves everything that's implied by a contradiction to bottom, so it's the equivalent of a language where none of those programs halt
< 1725212865 804249 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: I think it's an "idea" but it's pretty vague.
< 1725212871 756237 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1725212873 817801 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am not sure if it's possible to still be TC despite that, if it doesn't have the law of excluded middle or the like
< 1725212883 326623 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well
< 1725212887 538061 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so that some things can be meaningfully true or false despite the inconsistency
< 1725212895 63701 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :CA's don halt
< 1725212925 11991 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, but you can define a way to observe the equivalent of a halt
< 1725212931 882038 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1725212935 40910 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. in a CA you can define a halt as being an exact repeat of a previous state
< 1725212941 746206 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but cant you do that for something that doesnt halt?????
< 1725212943 404322 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've never made an esolang because fleshing out ideas is hard. It's easier *within* a framework so I've analyzed a few of the existing ones.
< 1725212967 650190 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i will start working on dis
< 1725212977 158216 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: yes – the exact definition of halting becomes somewhat subjective when dealing with weak versions of Turing-completeness in which you're allowed to change the halt condition
< 1725212990 664293 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1725212996 519814 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so kinda
< 1725213014 42765 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :either some inconsitent systems are TC or GoL is not TC ig????
< 1725213038 198016 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :weak Turing-completeness isn't very easy to define precisely and the definition is still debated
< 1725213049 865411 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :GoL is TC but in what sense would it be consistent or inconsistent?
> 1725213051 618630 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nope. with no quine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137696&oldid=137695 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+133) 10
< 1725213063 478073 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's not a logical system in any obvious way.
< 1725213077 772674 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wow this went of the rails o_o
< 1725213084 728097 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e yea
< 1725213088 297908 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: conceptually, isn't that because it's untyped?
< 1725213099 257835 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can send a spaceship at an interface that's expecting a glider and *something* happens
< 1725213105 751354 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :just not necessarily what you intended
< 1725213108 833373 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1725213113 271265 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ig
< 1725213117 773055 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wow dis is confusing
> 1725213123 922162 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137697&oldid=137633 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+26) 10/* Esolangs */
< 1725213124 330767 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wtf even does logic MEAN??????
< 1725213128 368395 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :meanwhile, untyped lambda calculus is TC, but is inconsistent if you try to interpret it as a proof system
< 1725213144 263902 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It doesnt mean algebra since how tf is GoL algebra????
< 1725213144 450856 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: sure there's an emergent level of abstraction where you have a type system of sorts
< 1725213149 370999 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'd call it non-obvious
< 1725213154 243899 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thats gor sure
< 1725213157 292764 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*for
< 1725213198 448702 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh wow, I just realised something that might be completely wrong, or even meaningless – but in the Curry-Howard correspondence, aren't consistent systems necessarily total, and the ones that can write infinite loops the ones that can prove false?
< 1725213204 101768 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
< 1725213211 308187 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i just found out somethin(i think)
< 1725213222 39813 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so in a sense, it's *only* the inconsistent systems that are TC, none of the consistent ones
< 1725213224 839076 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i made dis stubid esolang : https://esolangs.org/wiki/Not
< 1725213233 556437 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :heres the thing i found out:
< 1725213249 35889 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :either not is more powerfull than a PDA
< 1725213260 957455 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or a PDA can make the program on the black page
< 1725213262 177615 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Sounds mostly correct to me. There's the codata trick though.
< 1725213264 633565 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think??????
< 1725213281 431742 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: not is indeed more powerful than a PDA in some respects, but less powerful in other respects
< 1725213292 131085 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1725213294 30203 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but like
< 1725213296 857115 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :codata Result a = Result a | Step (Result a)
< 1725213302 331993 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in a *full respect*
< 1725213303 499291 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :imagine what happens to the stack after you do 1#1[1+==#N] (this is your example program with an extra =)
< 1725213317 669074 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the resulting state of the stack is something that a PDA can't even express, it is two-dimensional
< 1725213323 609301 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :damn
< 1725213325 699534 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :holeee
< 1725213336 787447 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :with a type like that you can split your computation into a sequence of steps that each terminate
< 1725213339 247906 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but, the language can't do some things that PDAs can do easily, like read memory in a way that affects control flow
< 1725213350 578858 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1725213368 809738 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but like
< 1725213369 191728 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: one of my first esolangs was like that, [[e:Wiki Cyclic Tag]]
< 1725213377 521444 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, https://esolangs.org/wiki/Wiki_Cyclic_Tag
< 1725213382 225678 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wtf even is it
< 1725213387 337761 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess this corresponds to Kleene's normal form (one outer fixed point/minimization/while loop)
< 1725213389 635543 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wtf is not??????
< 1725213402 701397 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :MediaWIki doesn't support infinite loops, so you have to manually rerun the next loop of the program
< 1725213411 574100 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1725213416 391954 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but thats allowed
< 1725213421 449207 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think
< 1725213423 81232 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuz like
< 1725213430 345300 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :people consider html and css TC
< 1725213435 368807 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it need user input forever
> 1725213439 342495 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nope. with no quine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137698&oldid=137696 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+87) 10Categories
< 1725213443 67741 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: languages don't have to be in the main computational classes – it's normally very simple languages that aren't, because they don't have enough power for their operations to substitute for each other, so adding new operations gives new powers
< 1725213457 655610 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :true
< 1725213487 258150 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i wonder what a not comp calss would look like lol :]
< 1725213493 482771 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :think about HQ9+, it has effectively no computational power at all – but if it did, then the HQ9+ commands would be redundant
< 1725213502 414471 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
> 1725213505 130077 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nope. without a quine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137699&oldid=136324 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+46) 10Distinguish confusion
< 1725213513 388253 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but because it isn't, each command is contributing to the language in it s own very limited way, so it is in a computational class of HQ9+-alikes
> 1725213518 341897 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nope. with no quine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137700&oldid=137698 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+48) 10Distinguish confusion
< 1725213536 841312 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it is hard to create another language in this class without creating essentially the same language but with different syntax
> 1725213548 324428 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Not14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137701&oldid=135881 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+20) 10
< 1725213556 438747 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1725213613 538420 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aaaaa my brain is breakin
< 1725213629 342165 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also i wonder if Not has any paradoxe:)
> 1725213658 571843 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Template:S14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137702 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+17) 10Created page with "{{{1}}}"
< 1725213697 227583 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wtf wtf
< 1725213702 60101 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im so confused
> 1725213705 27254 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Template:S14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137703&oldid=137702 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+1) 10
< 1725213732 591233 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but its for sure in a *full* perspective not is less powerfull than a PDA
< 1725213761 414385 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :computational power isn't a straight line
< 1725213772 191087 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we say language X is more powerful than language Y if X can do everything Y can do, and more
< 1725213782 430913 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1725213784 235670 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but also
< 1725213784 562670 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but sometimes, there are two languages, and each can do things that the other can't
< 1725213801 59207 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what if the only thing x can do thaty y cant is a no-op
< 1725213807 514448 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :something non important
< 1725213812 803398 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also ive found a way to cheat
< 1725213816 139011 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's still a power difference, and possibly an interesting one
< 1725213834 505377 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can just count the number of 1's in a not string as a symbol in a PDA
< 1725213834 709330 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :writing a language that can't do a nop is hard unless you're doing something like enforcing output
< 1725213848 30305 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, except a PDA can't have infinitely many symbols
< 1725213859 997136 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait wut
< 1725213860 812703 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that specifically is the thing that gives Not the extra power
< 1725213864 384779 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :why?????
< 1725213898 220847 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because PDAs are normally defined in terms of a lookup table: "when there's an X on top of the stack, and a Y on the input, and you're in state Z, do «thing»"
< 1725213911 719735 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but if you had infinitely many symbols you'd need an infinitely big program
< 1725213918 961628 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh yea
< 1725213928 825970 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aaaa dis is kinda hard
> 1725213932 768005 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Old Branjunk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137704&oldid=135725 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+244) 10
> 1725213942 634308 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Old Branjunk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137705&oldid=137704 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-8) 10
< 1725213957 264535 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :why is it?????
< 1725213964 385582 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aaaaaa im annoying myself
< 1725213975 217809 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i didnt know not could confuse me so much'
< 1725213975 600610 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or, well, here's an example: if Not had input, you could write a program that input a string, then printed it twice
< 1725213976 761398 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
> 1725213976 933680 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Branjunk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137706&oldid=137217 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+28) 10/* See also */
< 1725213978 182607 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can't do that with a PDA
< 1725213981 951798 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: take a break. get some fresh air. :)
< 1725213989 458252 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i cant
< 1725213992 280555 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its to late lol
< 1725214007 78931 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
> 1725214015 733689 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Old Branjunk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137707&oldid=137705 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+30) 10
< 1725214029 295492 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is dis allowed in a pda?:
< 1725214029 796510 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for all symbol and state Y do «thing»
< 1725214034 128130 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :since then
< 1725214041 779415 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :since Not has no conditional
< 1725214046 520128 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this would work
< 1725214071 699421 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's sort-of allowed, but the «thing» wouldn't be able to follow an infinite pattern
< 1725214078 633289 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :otherwise you get more power than a PDA is normally allowed to have
> 1725214081 358231 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137708&oldid=137697 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+55) 10/* Esolangs */
> 1725214095 705182 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137709&oldid=137708 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+13) 10/* Esolangs */
< 1725214111 2713 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so no infinite loops???
< 1725214124 280098 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can have an infinite loop, you just need to stay in a known state
< 1725214132 150347 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :HA
< 1725214142 710032 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"when there's a 1 on top of the stack and you're in state 1, stay in state 1 and leave the 1 on top of the stack", that sort of thing
< 1725214143 293869 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then Not is representable in a PDA
< 1725214148 668897 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :unless im wrong in some way
< 1725214153 812464 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, a PDA cannot do the concatenation
< 1725214158 438132 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1725214163 546222 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but if you have infit e symbols
< 1725214168 437109 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to represnt the ones
< 1725214171 435562 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and you just say
< 1725214173 488697 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then the concatenation would be an infinite pattern
< 1725214181 462101 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is not allowed
< 1725214184 339354 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait f--
< 1725214187 59711 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aaaaaaa
< 1725214191 558828 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :whyyyyyyyyyy
< 1725214207 80459 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :computational classes are defined more by what they can't do, than by what they can
< 1725214216 347708 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1725214227 689928 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol i think i find this to funny
< 1725214238 640639 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is why the https://esolangs.org/wiki/Looping_counter test is useful, if a language can do that it proves that it isn't just a PDA or LBA
< 1725214250 441596 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :LBA?
< 1725214272 609776 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it might have a unique or unusual computational class, especially if it's simple or defined based on a list of examples, but if that seems unlikely it raises the chance it's TC
< 1725214277 779412 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :LBA = "linear-bounded automaton"
< 1725214282 166872 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Little Big Adventure, scnr
< 1725214284 618999 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh yea
< 1725214291 759003 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Linear_bounded_automaton
> 1725214303 952215 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Old Branjunk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137710&oldid=137707 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+98) 10
< 1725214304 264182 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :What else... Linear Block Adressing
< 1725214311 648993 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my favourite example is https://esolangs.org/wiki/BuzzFizz which was intentionally designed as one
< 1725214320 454362 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so its somewhere between a LBA and a TM
< 1725214328 793431 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523 i like the name
< 1725214334 692040 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it can do most of the popular problems, but not looping counters because an LBA can't do that one
< 1725214347 99952 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its incredible
< 1725214353 623395 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how much the esolang comunity has proove
< 1725214366 834559 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like if you want to choose something just get some esolang guys interested in it
< 1725214383 892170 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*proove or disproove something
< 1725214388 271244 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :^ul
< 1725214390 728919 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's been a lot of people over a lot of years, and some of us have a lot of practice
> 1725214396 166565 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Imprecision14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137711&oldid=137690 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+168) 10Add interpreter
< 1725214402 687848 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :unlike me
< 1725214402 992195 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: fungot isn't here
< 1725214407 502891 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh
< 1725214436 252967 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait wtf û looks like a pencil
< 1725214438 88147 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway
< 1725214441 731219 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not in mono
< 1725214456 279059 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :WHAT ARE YOU not
< 1725214465 286331 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the name is like a metaphor
< 1725214469 759796 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh good, I was procrastinating on writing an Imprecision interpreter and someone wrote one already
< 1725214471 740854 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but unintentioal
< 1725214481 629914 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or however you speel it
< 1725214501 631596 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"im *not* going to be normal" or something like dat
< 1725214590 65073 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aaaaaa
< 1725214600 460012 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how the hell is not destroying me
< 1725214602 488951 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like dis
< 1725214666 404317 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a f- it
< 1725214680 215177 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im just going to keep on going
< 1725214725 28799 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :bbchallenge has spent a while trying to do something that has been proven impossible to continue indefinitely, to see how far they get
< 1725214741 200150 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wut
< 1725214745 676865 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :bbchallenge?
< 1725214749 231743 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wut is dat?
> 1725214764 313791 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Looping counter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137712&oldid=136507 5* 03Int-e 5* (+74) 10add Unlambda
< 1725214791 609994 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: they are working through all Turing machines in the order of simplest to most complicated, trying to work out which ones halt and which ones don't
< 1725214791 915757 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :busy beaver challenge I suppose
< 1725214819 732861 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is known that at some point, we will reach a Turing machine that doesn't halt, but this is impossible to prove
< 1725214824 961837 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but not where
< 1725214833 911021 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1725214837 982957 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :why???
< 1725214850 450857 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it is also possible that we will reach a Turing machine that does halt, but we can't prove it and can't simulate it for long enough to observe it halting)
< 1725214860 703311 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :can we blame this on Chaitin ;-)
< 1725214877 269855 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"we" here is general, I hardly did anything
< 1725214887 162022 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's a facet of the halting problem being undecidable
> 1725214900 598283 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Looping counter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137713&oldid=137712 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+26) 10added not cuz its possible
< 1725214932 133318 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :If you could, for each Turing machine, whether it halts or not, then you could decide the halting problem simply by enumerating all possible proofs until one of them does the trick for the TM in question.
< 1725214933 891989 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: oh wow, looping counter without s or k
< 1725214951 472735 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: the ``ci`ci infinite loop is weird
< 1725214964 532316 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's basically that with output
< 1725214985 909423 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :now I am tempted to make a generalization of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Subtle_cough by adding the identity function to it
< 1725215017 886768 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it's not original code... some example like this was in Madoore's original distribution)
< 1725215024 112193 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my current guess is "still sub-TC" but it's hard to tell
< 1725215051 166269 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but it should be too simple for copyright issues, plus I reconstructed it on the spot :P)
< 1725215055 506910 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you do that ais523 then plz name it general cough plz
< 1725215059 211668 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe
< 1725215060 82745 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idk
< 1725215076 32202 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess the hard-mode version would be c+d+i
< 1725215094 797161 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
< 1725215096 461724 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or maybe just c+d?
< 1725215108 959092 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :d is sort-of like an identity function
< 1725215114 451833 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you said it took years for you to make eoslangs
< 1725215117 310380 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*esolangs
< 1725215125 357995 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(not to say you lie or anythin')
< 1725215133 284248 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and not to annoy you)
< 1725215277 614284 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but
< 1725215281 743320 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you made on yester day
< 1725215286 73254 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and now your making another
< 1725215288 233119 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or are you
< 1725215292 16925 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im confused i tihnk
< 1725215294 340234 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*think
< 1725215297 476113 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't really count that as making an esolang
< 1725215301 449440 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess I did, in a way
< 1725215301 918261 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: nobody said that *all* languages take that long to make
< 1725215308 355514 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :true
< 1725215309 609123 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also this one is a variation on an existing one
< 1725215317 601896 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also true
< 1725215323 800152 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, removing commands from an esolang is easy, it's probably even easier than adding them
< 1725215340 61526 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :having some reason to think that removing commands from an esolang might be *interesting* takes insight, but in this case it wasn't my insight
< 1725215342 919202 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea'
< 1725215354 485561 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also
< 1725215361 320565 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and besides it's not done
< 1725215370 659681 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like, I didn't originally notice that ~ in Underload could be implemented in terms of the other commands, someone else noticed that
< 1725215378 821380 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because I imagine ais523 wouldn't write anything about it unless it's somehow actually interesting
> 1725215386 493394 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137714&oldid=137709 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+2) 10
< 1725215388 606211 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i have a *controverisal* thing somebody said:
< 1725215389 114585 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a good esolang take three things: boredom, ot much freedom, an ADHD
< 1725215389 569081 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and both c and d are... awkward.
< 1725215406 826806 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: right, although I guess not knowing whether it's interesting or not is interesting in its own way?
< 1725215416 877322 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aa wut
< 1725215421 281719 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that normally takes a few days of thought to determine that it isn't uninteresting in a non-obvious way, though
< 1725215446 203768 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and oerjan isn't a regular here nowadays – oerjan was good at that sort of thing, probably better than me
< 1725215491 702722 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is promising in that c and d kind of offset each other; c makes termination harder; d makes termination easier
< 1725215521 646317 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :%s/Ciolkovski/Ciolkovskij/g
< 1725215527 336596 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fwiw I was considering a call-with-previous-continuation operation in an esolang I was working on recently
< 1725215535 483000 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :my brain just wants to shut off though so I won't think about it
< 1725215543 976564 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the difference is that call/cc, if you call the continuation, the argument effectively replaces the entire call/cc call
< 1725215576 160810 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with call/pc, if you call the continuation, it effectively replaces the *argument* to the call/pc call, so it gets given the same continuation again and continues from there
< 1725215608 882347 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this day has made me hate not
< 1725215610 642884 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think this is equivalent in logics that don't have linear-logic-like restrictions on duplicating and discarding values
< 1725215618 570188 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i will add that to my user page
< 1725215621 263048 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it's easier to use for some things
> 1725215651 570236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137715&oldid=137610 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+22) 10
< 1725215755 694537 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: ITYM Циолковский
< 1725215760 802796 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :;-)
> 1725215764 15383 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137716&oldid=137345 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+221) 10/* test topic */ new section
< 1725215764 56582 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the
< 1725215765 613140 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wut
< 1725215766 945982 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: channel logs webserver seems inaccessible
< 1725215797 1008 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(except for the front page)
< 1725215803 153792 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: try an invalid URL, it 404s right away
< 1725215817 423253 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :server's accessible but is having trouble serving for some reason
< 1725215838 182327 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm guessing it's the "stalker mode sometimes makes it get stuck" thing, which I hoped would've been fixed when I updated CivetWeb.
< 1725215839 842304 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: I've forgotten essentially all the russian I've learned but I can still use the cyrillic script :P
> 1725215843 987572 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137717&oldid=137716 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+0) 10/* test topic */
< 1725215856 128836 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The front page, and 404s, are served by nginx; only the logs are served by the special log-server binary.
< 1725215857 991044 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1725215899 713949 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Restarted it, and it works again, but will probably break at some point in the future for the same reason.
< 1725215913 336676 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :One of these days I'll debug it. But not today.
< 1725215915 200619 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :chat must look so confusing
< 1725215932 463019 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: sure, just narrowed it down because /sometimes/ something usually stable like DNS breaks
< 1725216055 303063 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: to be clear, COME FROM was originally proposed as a joke replacement instead of GO TO, so it is by design that that they are equivalent. The joke was that there's an influential paper by Dijkstra where he explains why languages like FORTRAN should have a structured IF and WHILE statement, and you should write program using those rather than with conditional GO TO statements. So the COME FROM 
< 1725216061 310589 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :proposal starts from the base idea that GO TO is harmful, but then proposes an even worse solution.
< 1725216089 216320 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: oh ok
< 1725216208 538624 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: they aren't equivalent in interpreted languages, goto is much more efficient to implement
< 1725216208 610308 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: IRC can get convoluted. It used to be worse :)
< 1725216219 54890 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1725216245 908694 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. you can't come from in a scripting interpreter that starts executing commands before it's fully parsed the program
< 1725216348 354697 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1725216478 851832 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, Random-access machine is the computational model that is rather similar to the 70s and 80s computers which had a CPU and RAM running on the same clock, with no cache other than sometimes a 1-byte data prefetch, so every RAM access has the same cost. Only the model abstracts away the part that the available RAM and address space is necessarily finite. I think it could have been discovered earlier, 
< 1725216484 837826 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but back then computers stored data on disks/drums or tape or mercury delay loop rather than core memory or SRAM or DRAM, so the abstraction was deeper, pretending that it always took the same amount of time to access any cell, even though that usually wasn't true for disks.  
< 1725216507 907193 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :The variant of call/cc that I had consider is law of excluded middle continuations
< 1725216542 577102 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: interesting
< 1725216566 806363 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Although now that I think of it, https://www.righto.com/2024/08/minuteman-guidance-computer.html describes a computer that stores its work memory on a disk, but its CPU clock cycles are synchronized with the disk's rotation, and it has a separate head for each track, so it does actually access its memory in constant time!
< 1725216625 371506 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's the D-37 family of computers.
< 1725216674 689607 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh hey, the logs web server fixed itself, thank you
< 1725216689 584872 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: fizzie poked it
< 1725216714 176034 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thank you fizzie
< 1725216754 663276 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: i just got reminded of the c'mon do something meme but something happend
< 1725216795 700608 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: honestly I'm not sure how many memes there are that both of us know
< 1725216805 638069 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not many
< 1725216808 567905 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I'm not sure what you're referring to)
< 1725216822 69180 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ill send a link
< 1725216827 50236 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or am i allowed?
< 1725216847 399766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :links are fine (within reason)
< 1725216867 418978 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://imgflip.com/i/923fer
< 1725216887 932331 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there is is
< 1725216890 11690 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*it
< 1725216918 322828 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1725216970 850402 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, but the library catalogs store russian names in ISO-9 scientific transcription, presumably so that they could type them on a typewriter with fewer type elements, and then this got kept when the catalog got digitized, so if I type Ciolkovskij in the digital catalog https://nektar2.oszk.hu/LVbin/LibriVision/lv_search_form.html then it works (though gives some false positives for other people 
< 1725216973 319920 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see.
< 1725216976 849738 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with the same family name), but if I enter Циолковский then it finds nothing
< 1725217012 55248 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: that's kind of sad
< 1725217023 252043 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think this is a bug, the library catalog software should be able to find transliterated versions of the name if I type Циолковский, but I have to know the workaround 
< 1725217076 405578 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ahhh. radioactive theme. make my brain go yes
< 1725217086 646401 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and last I was in the building, they still had parts of the catalog not digitized, so I may have to search in the cupboards of catalog slips by the transcribed name sorted in alphabetic order
< 1725217134 992637 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know if OSzK and/or Rényi Int kvt still has parts of their catalogs not yet digitized though, maybe they scanned everything by now
< 1725217154 328937 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Using 'j' for 'й' (which in context mostly extends the 'и' vowel) is also a bit weird, but whatever.
< 1725217190 100931 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it's hard to argue with standards)
< 1725217202 763517 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :cf. https://xkcd.com/927/
< 1725217227 477868 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1725217328 988735 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry for bringing this up again but:
< 1725217329 482868 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how the hell is not more powerfull than whats just a TM but with bounded memory
< 1725217394 576784 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :just like
< 1725217403 995704 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you need unbounded memory to keep track of the number of 1s to print between newlines
< 1725217407 769104 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: the ISO 9 transcription wants to be a simple reversible transliteration that takes one letter always to one letter, so I think that makes sense. There are other transliterations that don't try to keep that.
< 1725217419 797048 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :all you need is duplication concatenation and infinite loops
< 1725217434 783471 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also ISO 9 tries to transliterate all languages written in cyrillic letters uniformly, but in a way that's optimized for Russian first 
< 1725217435 754892 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :log(N) -> oo as N -> oo.
< 1725217442 766924 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wut???
< 1725217484 641431 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And since there's no input, an LBA only gets finite memory here.
< 1725217521 466393 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :even with input it can be a LBA(see buzzfizz)
< 1725217533 359644 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(The memory is bounded by a linear (technically affine to make the zero sized input case work) function in the input size.)
< 1725217545 612803 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I think Serbian second, so that the transliterations for letters usually matches the Gaj serbian transliteration, except for ј where Russian takes precedence, and for the letters where serbian transliterates one cyrillic letter to two latin letters
< 1725217562 669330 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: here, have an infinity symbol: ∞
< 1725217582 818162 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: it looks ugly in my terminal font :P
< 1725217591 986986 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I did not know about Minuteman computer now I see
< 1725217601 457364 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :o∞o
< 1725217607 961587 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the one digit number for the standard is really cool by the way. do you know any other ISO or ECMA or ANSI etc standards with such a cool name?
< 1725217622 30297 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the book I learned about computer construction from was written a little after magnetic core memory was invented
< 1725217638 938573 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and had sections on both digital and analog computers, although there was more space devoted to digital
< 1725217654 205223 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/owo.png
< 1725217660 391674 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: aren't Ecma standards normally just two digits long? although they might have reached three digits by now
< 1725217678 423916 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: two letters yes, but I don't think I've seen any one-digit one
< 1725217685 968121 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ISO have cool-sounding numbers for some of the standards, like ISO 9000 (the standards themselves are less interesting though)
< 1725217692 199651 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the name with ISO is more impressive with how most ISO standards have longer names
< 1725217776 791571 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this IRC channel tried to set up a standards organisation once, but it didn't get as far as publishing even a single standard
< 1725217781 226251 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: BuzzFizz has unbounded counters, so that means unbounded memory.
< 1725217782 571155 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I think it was planning to do BF first, unsuprisingly)
< 1725217802 258616 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: wait wut
< 1725217810 177226 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then its not a LBA????
< 1725217811 541880 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: but it can be implemented with memory that's bounded linearly by the input
< 1725217837 880429 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :okay so it can't do the looping counter
< 1725217846 278289 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: the trick is that although the counters can theoretically go arbitrarily high, every very high value is indistinguishable from some lower value, and you can determine that statically
< 1725217857 802287 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I admit "typewriters" is too specific a reason, the library catalog even on a digital computer would probably have used a latin transliteration until about 1990 the least
< 1725217859 711337 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh
< 1725217860 694378 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so you can "cheat" by storing the higher values as a lower one
< 1725217863 80727 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: right I didn't read that far
< 1725217885 471539 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
< 1725217889 721870 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(well, "statically based on the input" which is how you get the LBA's input-dependence)
< 1725217891 913167 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :does buzzfizz have strings?
< 1725217894 658287 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no
< 1725217899 716615 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1725217903 777816 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :except for string literals in the print statements
< 1725217911 390627 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@123.64.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
< 1725217912 43280 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :else you could prop implement not
< 1725217913 280775 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh wait
< 1725217931 240668 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's not an LBA for the purpose of printing stuff
< 1725217943 770357 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :are you sure?
< 1725217952 440422 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can print a counter
< 1725217956 28675 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"this IRC channel tried to set up a standards organisation once" => wait what?
< 1725217962 193240 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: oh, ouch, that is probably a mistake
< 1725217976 960776 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: it collapsed into bikeshedding about what typesetting software to use, I think
< 1725217989 872759 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it didn't get as far as considering issues like hosting or getting anyone to pay any attention to it
< 1725218000 701651 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but for properties like halting it's an LBA
< 1725218055 281480 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ill have to leave in a bit sorry
< 1725218056 951921 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ig
< 1725218068 339545 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that said... I still don't think that it can do the loooping counter even if you abuse the ability to print counter values
< 1725218088 274513 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :typical. hopefully tom7 will improve his BoVeX esoteric typesetting system to a point where we can standardize on that. though we may need to write a texinfo-like template for it that can compile to either HTML or printable PDF.
< 1725218092 578300 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: it's fine, people drop off and return all the time
< 1725218103 299918 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i wont return tho
< 1725218106 573966 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not for now
< 1725218122 162220 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure it may take hours, days, weeks... sometimes more
< 1725218123 618858 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs ::P
< 1725218125 30914 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :conversations here often move slowly
< 1725218131 657958 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we continue them across hours or days quite often
< 1725218137 631494 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1725218142 679472 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and there are logs to help...
< 1725218145 498138 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :...haha
> 1725218280 391696 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BuzzFizz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137718&oldid=58772 5* 03Int-e 5* (+96) 10nitpick
< 1725218333 414285 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2024-09-01.html#l5f APL Del editor, ∇ editor, for log search purposes
< 1725218501 464636 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: ironically that capability to print the counter is quite essential for FizzBuzz
< 1725218504 788258 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"sort of – it gets complicated when you have multiple gotos or comefroms aiming at the same line" => that's how Chomsky context-free grammars work if you translate it to a nondeterministic stack automata, but with a very different semantics for multiple COME FROM from the same place as in Intercal
< 1725218515 618250 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :re https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2024-09-01.html#lpf
< 1725218516 416856 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1725218546 263698 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: it's not very different, it's actually pretty similar
< 1725218559 81107 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :C-INTERCAL implements backtracking and threading using the same internal primitives
< 1725218641 764599 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we should look up the original article proposing come from and link it from https://esolangs.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_esoteric_programming_languages https://esolangs.org/wiki/INTERCAL https://esolangs.org/wiki/C-INTERCAL
> 1725218719 612233 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GoL14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137719 5* 03B jonas 5* (+26) 10Redirected page to [[Game of Life]]
< 1725218795 794582 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, I admit I haven't really looked at how threaded intercal worked, it didn't seem interesting enough an extension
< 1725218811 780319 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1725218957 530364 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the way it does inter-thread communication is probably the most interesting part, and ended up being useful for single-threaded programming too
< 1725219240 652400 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm trying to recall... was it a one-shot version of REINSTATE?
< 1725219300 150807 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :" a consistency checking esolang" => would a modern SAT solver or finite domain logic programming solver count? how about just Prolog? 
< 1725219305 21510 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I'll look it up myself)
< 1725219447 648698 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, statement get an optional ONCE/AGAIN flag and 'ONCE' can toggle the NOT flag. Yeah, I think my memory got close enough :)
< 1725219462 381544 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: it's a statement modifier that flips the abstention status once when the status runs, and then turns itself off, but it turns itself back on again if it gets externally abstained/reinstated
< 1725219585 619095 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and this is guaranteed to be atomic in that if two threads run into a statement that is currently reinstanted once only then exactly one will execute that statement?
< 1725219605 500717 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah
< 1725219635 530609 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's convenient, yes. though you'll also need some way to pause a thread without a spinloop.
< 1725219662 449427 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think you have to spin here
> 1725219733 785500 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sculptlang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137720&oldid=136486 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+1) 10
< 1725219735 109614 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and nothing stops you from ineffectively REINSTATING a DO ... ONCE statement or ABSTAINING FROM a DON'T ... ONCE one.
< 1725219759 990611 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So there's some effort to make this awkward.
< 1725219856 43915 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :“ inconsistent theories have no models, so are they ‘things’ at all” => yes, in that because there are interesting theories where we can't tell if they have models or not, we want to be able to talk about a model even if it might be inconsistent for all we know
< 1725219876 867216 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: the link I'm looking at is https://web.archive.org/web/20160303230852/http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~malcolmr/intercal/threaded.html
< 1725219880 465186 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's like being able to talk about a person who may be dead, even if a known dead person isn't interesting
< 1725219922 795174 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I was playing with the idea that the meta level is less tangible than the object level
< 1725219930 675394 :impomatic3!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fbd:8001:d8c8:87ae:1405:e6af QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1725219931 184568 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and things should be tangible
< 1725219936 524464 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it wasn't too serious
< 1725220048 937670 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in that case you'd have to say that theories aren't things, regardless if they're consistent, only models are things
< 1725220095 661196 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have bigger gripes in the same conceptual space... the reversed roles of reification and reflection in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/reflection-2.1.8/docs/Data-Reflection.html :P (values are concrete, so reification should be the process of expressing a type as a value, while reflection does the opposite... but no, it's the opposite)
< 1725220158 914053 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"I've never made an esolang because fleshing out ideas is hard." => the trick is to make a toy language or experimental language, and then posting it on the esolang wiki because those are off-topic enough
< 1725220211 502280 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :by toy language I mean a language whose main goal is to learn how to implement a language; an experimental language is one that has features that are probably not good to put in a real language, but you want to explore their consequences so you put them into a language anyway.
< 1725220255 755894 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, not really, by toy language I mean a language whose main goal is to learn how to *design and develop* a language, which may involve implementing it, but that's not strictly necessary
< 1725220346 37440 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so toy language ends up as not practical mostly by the limitations of its creator, because they don't know how to make a good enough practical language; while experimental language ends up as not practical because you are trying an esoteric idea
< 1725220368 740596 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or too many strange ideas in the same language, where a few of those ideas may turn out to be good
> 1725220393 579169 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Uyjhmn n14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137721&oldid=132744 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-28) 10/* See also */
< 1725220405 683155 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't care too much about whether such languages count as esoteric or not, they're on topic enough for the wiki and channel 
> 1725220417 353808 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Ractangle 5*  10moved [[02Uyjhmn--10]] to [[I love circuit boards]]
> 1725220454 21583 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I love circuit boards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137724&oldid=137722 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-1719) 10Replaced content with "{{Stub}} '''I love circuit boards''' is a circuit board esolang [[Category:Languages]][[Category:2024]][[Category:Unimplemented]]"
> 1725220724 809604 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I love circuit boards14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137725&oldid=137724 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+143) 10
> 1725221340 523693 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07NOP (esolang)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137726&oldid=137692 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+2) 10
< 1725221616 266053 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: wait, what is call/pc ? I heard of call/cc and call/ec . is this something related to delimited continuations?
< 1725221656 191792 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :'p' is for 'previous' and there's an explanation of that in context
< 1725221787 648778 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"which I hoped would've been fixed when I updated CivetWeb" => I recently upgraded Oracle VirtualBox on my work machine because it sometimes used to crash with a segfault in the process running on the host. after the upgrade, multiple times it froze while the Windows guest was shutting down. this might not be a Virtualbox bug, it's possible that the guest freezes, but if so the timing is strange because 
< 1725221793 657141 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think that ever happened before, certainly not repeatedly.
< 1725222003 312870 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :" cf. https://xkcd.com/927/" => oh, there absolutely are that many standards for transliterating russian to latin script.
> 1725222189 74887 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:B jonas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137727&oldid=134895 5* 03B jonas 5* (+152) 10/* Todo */ D-17, thank you for the reminder zzo38
> 1725222241 91410 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137728&oldid=132517 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+666) 10yet another rewrite
> 1725222259 356410 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137729&oldid=137728 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+1) 10whitespace fail
> 1725222321 525551 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137730&oldid=137729 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+16) 10/* who. who are you */ STYLE FAIL
> 1725222508 339030 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sculptlang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137731&oldid=137720 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+0) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/137720|137720]] by [[Special:Contributions/Ractangle|Ractangle]] ([[User talk:Ractangle|talk]])
> 1725222536 425458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137732&oldid=137656 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (-62) 10Blanked the page
> 1725222550 865813 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137733&oldid=137732 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+62) 10
< 1725222922 461704 :troojg!~troojg@user/troojg JOIN #esolangs troojg :troojg
< 1725223015 71417 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Hmm BuzzFizz should have enough for full LBA capability if we adopt a convention that the first input is 2^M if we want to simulate an M-bit tape. We get full finite control and counters modulo 2^M, and we can decrement a counter by zeroing an auxiliary counter, incrementing it once, and then incrementing both counters until the auxiliary counter is 0.
> 1725223028 306726 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137734&oldid=137733 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (-62) 10Blanked the page
< 1725223071 49247 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, else: isn't needed for full finite control; you can maintain your own modulo 2 counter for that instead
> 1725223208 298233 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/common.js14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137735&oldid=136372 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (-157) 10uwu
< 1725223210 165389 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(incidentally the example that adds two numbers doesn't use else: either)
< 1725223300 370818 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also since if ...: can be nested you can implement finite control with N states with log_2(N) toggles.
< 1725223354 632108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :with a silly opportunity to employ a Gray code.
< 1725224133 716899 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1725224569 334234 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: ooh, nice proof – so I guess the hard part is doing it only with the numbers in the input
< 1725224629 513230 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(also I was wondering when Tommyaweosme was going to blank that CSS page)
< 1725224652 140443 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that JS edit could be trouble, I think it is likely to screw up edited pages, cloud-to-butt style
< 1725224674 313332 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I'll wait for it to demonstrate that it's a problem before blanking, just in case it isn't
> 1725224727 540384 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Uyjhmn--/Brainfuck interpreter14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137736&oldid=130673 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+146) 10Link, category
< 1725224737 353498 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :else: was included mostly because FizzBuzzes do that rather than for LBA-completeness
< 1725224879 804333 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1725224904 516286 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1725225235 897142 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that makes sense
< 1725225243 987442 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I haven't watched this recent video yet, but it has a clickbait title related to stuff on-topic here => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFoXooShZXc
< 1725225340 697811 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is a cute pun
< 1725226227 906861 :bookworms!~bookworms@user/bookworms JOIN #esolangs bookworms :bookworms
< 1725226599 652785 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1725226960 726958 :Ae!Ae@linux.touz.org NICK :Guest840
> 1725227691 184363 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Imprecision14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137737&oldid=137711 5* 03Ais523 5* (+7) 10/* Computational class */ better wording
< 1725229886 618814 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1725230900 299222 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 JOIN #esolangs Corbin :korvo
< 1725230915 818363 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :For the MtG fans who didn't see it yet: https://david.kolo.ski/blog/sort-library-steps-mtg/
< 1725230930 641515 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :A judge discusses this in a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhZnHJBH4Ag
> 1725231268 954654 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137738&oldid=131435 5* 03Thebarra 5* (+19) 10/* More Examples */
> 1725231451 886631 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137739&oldid=137738 5* 03Thebarra 5* (+108) 10/* More Examples */
< 1725231831 874354 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.righto.com/2023/08/datapoint-to-8086.html “Following the 8080, Intel intended to revolutionize microprocessors with a 32-bit ‘micro-mainframe’, the iAPX 432. This extremely complex processor implemented objects, memory management, interprocess communication, and fine-grained memory protection in hardware. The iAPX 432 was too ambitious and the project fell behind schedule, leaving 
< 1725231837 881377 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Intel vulnerable against competitors such as Motorola and Zilog. Intel quickly threw together a 16-bit processor as a stopgap until the iAPX 432 was ready;” => that means Intel's microprocessor development lab was capable of executing and reordering independent models way before they made the Pentium and Pentium Pro which were their first CPUs that could execute independent instructions in parallel 
< 1725231843 895030 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and reorder instruction respectively.
< 1725231953 268246 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: hehe, that's funny
< 1725232771 221046 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.righto.com/2024/08/pentium-navajo-fairchild-shiprock.html => hmm, do we have a thematic esolang for this, one where the source code is woven fabric and it's interpreted as if it were plans for an integrated circuit?
< 1725234464 159252 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know what is BoVeX. What I think would be useful in a typesetting system is to be able to include PostScript codes which can be executed during the decisions of typesetting, and not only at the end when the output is being made.
< 1725234675 386248 :troojg!~troojg@user/troojg QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1725234909 281420 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Tommyaweosmalt 5*  10New user account
> 1725234940 901673 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137740&oldid=137640 5* 03Tommyaweosmalt 5* (+184) 10
> 1725235054 523637 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=137741&oldid=137657 5* 03Tommyaweosmalt 5* (+496) 10/* unbrick needed */ new section
> 1725235126 448748 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosmalt14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=137742 5* 03Tommyaweosmalt 5* (+139) 10Created page with "[[user:tommyaweosme]]s alt account made for a non-banevading reason.  this account has never edited and never will edit [[esolang:sandbox]]"