< 1725926579 468133 :mtm!~textual@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1725926744 378331 :mtm!~textual@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN #esolangs mtm :Textual User < 1725928466 656926 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement < 1725928548 933136 :Argorok!sid195487@id-195487.hampstead.irccloud.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1725928705 149466 :Argorok!sid195487@id-195487.hampstead.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs Argorok :Argorok < 1725928748 929081 :dnm!sid401311@id-401311.lymington.irccloud.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1725928933 29802 :dnm!sid401311@id-401311.lymington.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs dnm :dnm > 1725930693 289060 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Guy Fawkes Rep14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138656&oldid=90556 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+408) 10 > 1725931920 729090 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Guy Fawkes Rep14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138657&oldid=138656 5* 03Ais523 5* (-408) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/138656|138656]] by [[Special:Contributions/Tommyaweosme|Tommyaweosme]] ([[User talk:Tommyaweosme|talk]]) offtopic, and trying to communciate with banned users is potentially directly counterproductive > 1725931982 567815 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10Ais523 changed visibility of a revision on page [[02User talk:Guy Fawkes Rep10]]: content hidden: safety concerns wrt trying to contact a banned user offwiki > 1725932162 675819 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Blip14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138658&oldid=129298 5* 03Ais523 5* (+0) 10fix formatting apparently that template combination is broken if they're written in the wrong order > 1725932262 364662 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02User talk:Guy Fawkes Rep10]]": old-fashioned revision delete > 1725932308 583655 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 restore10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10undeleted "[[02User talk:Guy Fawkes Rep10]]": restoring revisions prior to the ones that needed to be deleted > 1725932368 999247 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/protect14]]4 protect10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10protected "[[User talk:Guy Fawkes Rep [edit=sysop] (indefinite)[move=sysop] (indefinite)]]": talk page of banned user, currently being misused < 1725933298 946072 :wryl!sid553797@user/meow/Wryl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1725933491 463021 :wryl!sid553797@user/meow/Wryl JOIN #esolangs Wryl :Wryl < 1725934948 920100 :pikhq!sid394595@user/meow/pikhq QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1725935182 475908 :pikhq!sid394595@user/meow/pikhq JOIN #esolangs pikhq :Ada Worcester < 1725936390 469617 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname < 1725937398 925884 :yuu!sid267332@id-267332.ilkley.irccloud.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1725937589 688940 :yuu!sid267332@id-267332.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs * :yuu < 1725939010 500713 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1725939033 491918 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1725939095 128843 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1725940383 918406 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sgeo: Biological metaphors might help. Kay was fascinated by what's known as the "central dogma" of genetics: a strand of DNA is encoded instructions to a certain kind of protein. < 1725940428 728900 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It turns out that there's more than one encoding and also that DNA isn't the only encoding medium. I imagine Kay was thinking of the same sort of change-of-encoding situation. > 1725946077 251029 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move_redir10 02 5* 03Unname4798 5* 10moved [[02Gd auto level10]] to [[GD auto level]] over redirect: Correct captalisation > 1725946077 295726 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete_redir10 02 5* 03Unname4798 5* 10Unname4798 deleted redirect [[02GD auto level10]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Gd auto level]]" < 1725946202 591519 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1725946338 74466 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GD auto level14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138662&oldid=138660 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+0) 10correct captalisation, punctuatiom < 1725947276 879347 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1725947910 925207 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1725948048 947096 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138663&oldid=138647 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-9) 10 > 1725949966 530644 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Kava14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138664&oldid=138036 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+1) 10/* Truth-machine */ < 1725950193 67498 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.144.132 QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1725950576 401881 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.144.132 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale > 1725951653 891454 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138665&oldid=138663 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-2) 10/* Truth-machine */ > 1725951685 82244 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138666&oldid=138648 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-2) 10/* How dare you fuck the brain */ < 1725951977 559549 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1725952048 750995 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138667&oldid=138665 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+31) 10/* Examples */ > 1725952270 396590 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138668&oldid=138667 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+21) 10/* Disan Count */ > 1725952418 272496 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Comment14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138669&oldid=138644 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+8) 10/* C */ > 1725952694 359648 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Comment14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138670&oldid=138669 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+150) 10/* C/C++ */ > 1725952751 165221 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Comment14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138671&oldid=138670 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+32) 10/* C# */ < 1725957721 906076 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.144.132 QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1725958666 320166 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1725958750 923355 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :HTML question. Do browsers these days have some built-in CSS stuff to make the column widths of a table resizable by the user, such as by dragging the borders in the header row, or is this only available as client-side scripts? < 1725958922 298772 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, there's a CSS property called resize. I'll have to test that. < 1725960235 180692 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1725961101 443761 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138672&oldid=138621 5* 03B4k3d 5* (+262) 10 > 1725961210 295007 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:B4K3D14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138673 5* 03B4k3d 5* (+39) 10Created page with "Hi can't wait to sumbit my eso-slang ;D" > 1725961504 512179 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:B4k3d14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138674 5* 03B4k3d 5* (+112) 10Created page with "> Refining syntax > formal specification > custom interpreter or compiler for programs > will provide examples" < 1725961960 694601 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1725962412 950760 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown > 1725962509 45997 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Unname4798 5* 10moved [[02GD auto level10]] to [[GD Auto level]] > 1725962532 794599 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gd auto level14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138677&oldid=138661 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+0) 10fix double redirect < 1725964004 866827 :m5zs7k!aquares@web10.mydevil.net QUIT :Quit: m5zs7k < 1725964028 757218 :m5zs7k!aquares@web10.mydevil.net JOIN #esolangs m5zs7k :m5zs7k > 1725965888 301638 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:B4K3D14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138678 5* 03B4k3d 5* (+2) 10Created page with "hi" < 1725966378 410798 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.144.132 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale < 1725966813 338061 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.144.132 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1725967340 211142 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1725967487 603452 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1725968231 645261 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138679&oldid=131181 5* 03None1 5* (+159) 10 > 1725968321 205830 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03None1 5* 10moved [[02Project Euler10]] to [[Project Euler (language)]]: Move project euler language to another page so that project euler problems can have its page properly > 1725968321 222958 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03None1 5* 10moved [[02Talk:Project Euler/110]] to [[Talk:Project Euler (language)/1]]: Move project euler language to another page so that project euler problems can have its page properly > 1725968489 429372 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move_redir10 02 5* 03None1 5* 10moved [[02Talk:Project Euler (language)/110]] to [[Talk:Project Euler/1]] over redirect: Move accidentally moved page back > 1725968489 444400 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete_redir10 02 5* 03None1 5* 10None1 deleted redirect [[02Talk:Project Euler/110]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Talk:Project Euler (language)/1]]" > 1725968531 651751 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Project Euler14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138686&oldid=138681 5* 03None1 5* (-7) 10Changed redirect target from [[Project Euler (language)]] to [[User:ProjectEuler]] > 1725968584 130057 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Scratch14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138687 5* 03None1 5* (+26) 10Redirected page to [[User:Scratch]] > 1725968636 771303 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Project Euler (language)/114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138688&oldid=138685 5* 03None1 5* (-34) 10Blanked the page > 1725968736 455955 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:ProjectEuler14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138689&oldid=125477 5* 03None1 5* (+75) 10 > 1725968815 811283 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138690&oldid=138679 5* 03None1 5* (+26) 10 > 1725968875 194013 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138691&oldid=138690 5* 03None1 5* (+86) 10 > 1725969327 125126 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138692&oldid=138691 5* 03None1 5* (+501) 10 > 1725969378 948596 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138693&oldid=138692 5* 03None1 5* (+20) 10/* Parts of a pinyin */ < 1725969840 520847 :mtm!~textual@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1725970018 92680 :mtm!~textual@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1725970349 277493 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138694&oldid=138693 5* 03None1 5* (+681) 10/* Parts of a pinyin */ < 1725970752 427980 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1725970985 636851 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1725971217 198528 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1725972752 320440 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW < 1725973875 236081 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs SGautam :Siddharth Gautam > 1725974180 95436 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Comment14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138695&oldid=138671 5* 03None1 5* (+59) 10/* C/C++ */ > 1725974302 267535 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Comment14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138696&oldid=138695 5* 03None1 5* (+64) 10/* C# */ C# has document comments (I think they are almost useless anyway) > 1725974468 147128 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Comment14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138697&oldid=138696 5* 03None1 5* (+13) 10/* /// */ > 1725974685 175678 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Expansion14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138698&oldid=123856 5* 03None1 5* (-7) 10/* A+B Problem */ Formatting does not work in pre > 1725974710 411737 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Comment14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138699&oldid=138697 5* 03None1 5* (+119) 10/* /// */ < 1725976909 124503 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs * :lisbeths > 1725977550 764362 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BIO14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138700&oldid=85448 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-13) 10if there is a non userpage it should be linked to > 1725977695 127397 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GD Auto level14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138701&oldid=138675 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+0) 10stop it now unname4798 > 1725977754 776553 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gd auto level14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138702&oldid=138677 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (-27) 10Blanked the page > 1725977880 339820 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GD Auto level14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138703&oldid=138701 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (-1131) 10Replaced content with "{{Lowercase}} im sorry, you must mean [[gd auto level|this]]" > 1725977891 486228 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gd auto level14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138704&oldid=138702 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+1191) 10 > 1725978094 714578 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Scratch is dumb14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138705&oldid=138611 5* 03Xyzzy 5* (+405) 10 > 1725978156 928666 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Ting Vit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138706&oldid=138592 5* 03Xyzzy 5* (+152) 10 > 1725978306 133962 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:5iasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138707&oldid=137331 5* 03Xyzzy 5* (+133) 10 > 1725978321 833444 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Akdrfsbathnede knem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138708&oldid=135677 5* 03Qawtykit 5* (+42) 10 > 1725978389 745584 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:ETA14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138709 5* 03Xyzzy 5* (+166) 10Created page with "suprised no one has talked yet --~~~~ - the person behind the instruction table on this page" > 1725978410 910718 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:5iasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138710&oldid=138707 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+136) 10 < 1725978496 287169 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.206.114.nat.ftth.dynamic.t-mobile.pl QUIT : > 1725978511 331886 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Main Page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138711&oldid=136214 5* 03Xyzzy 5* (+78) 10 > 1725979193 432587 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Main Page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138712&oldid=138711 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (-78) 10Answer: Both links were removed on July 3, 2024 < 1725979513 839837 :gkgoat1!~gkgoat1@c-73-150-204-87.hsd1.nj.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1725979519 81483 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138713&oldid=138668 5* 03Xyzzy 5* (+882) 10 > 1725979545 442285 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138714&oldid=138713 5* 03Xyzzy 5* (+19) 10 > 1725979552 309109 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Akdrfsbathnede knem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138715&oldid=138708 5* 03Qawtykit 5* (+2) 10 > 1725979578 928458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138716&oldid=138714 5* 03Xyzzy 5* (+22) 10 > 1725979598 560205 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138717&oldid=138716 5* 03Xyzzy 5* (-2) 10 < 1725979857 831267 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i had an idea to make a esolang based on turnabelism < 1725980044 299748 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure. Have you seen the various notations that have been invented in the past couple decades? < 1725980083 98601 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its a pretty weird idea < 1725980125 8118 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you have too tapes or whatever < 1725980131 410735 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with looping marks n' stuff < 1725980158 816107 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and recors onto another tape < 1725980380 348966 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and if there becomes an over record(so we dont stop in time) we will rterecord < 1725980382 800529 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that my idea < 1725980711 707254 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo now < 1725980719 885050 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*no < 1725980872 78033 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: One notation is DJ Radar's notation; I gather that it's used to teach at Berklee but can't find any details online. < 1725980878 173160 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Another is S-notation: https://www.tenor-conference.org/proceedings/2016/07_Sonnenfeld_tenor2016.pdf < 1725980951 198311 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i would like to make mi own(cuz i hate myself) but oh well < 1725980992 482874 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.206.114.nat.ftth.dynamic.t-mobile.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull < 1725981046 26050 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Well, what's the goal? < 1725981119 153472 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It might surprise you to learn that many of us have specific aims when creating new languages. For example, I do PLT research and I call some projects "esoteric" so that I don't have to argue about what's "practical" or "marketable". < 1725981153 129785 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Several folks are working on fundamentals of computability theory. Some folks want to make languages that are difficult to use. Some folks are making art. < 1725981160 849887 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my goal is to have something to do cuz im always bored cuz im a loner:( < 1725981176 322219 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my goal is to keep myself sane ig:) < 1725981178 726084 :sprout!~sprout@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is the way < 1725981192 883534 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol < 1725981206 563749 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh! Try Touhou. You will not be bored but you might lose some sanity. < 1725981240 231198 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh no im not a gamer < 1725981248 221066 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also i cant play it cuz i use old puter < 1725981249 816163 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's nothing wrong with recreational conlangs, but keep in mind that languages are for *communicating*. It might not be the best solo activity. < 1725981281 57403 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for me no < 1725981286 988061 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for me esolangs are < 1725981291 477628 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to experiment < 1725981296 804761 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :do special stuff < 1725981299 26103 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :do new stuff < 1725981338 620805 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but non esolang's are like that yea < 1725981460 855467 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :No worries. As long as you're having fun and following community guidelines, we invite folks to make art and experiment. < 1725981474 234392 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :k < 1725981475 235254 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thx < 1725981597 79638 :sprout!~sprout@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION idly wonders what a recreational conlang is
< 1725982502 59061 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway is my esolang idea good korvo < 1725982509 117607 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and can i get some help < 1725982561 607099 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: That's why I asked what your goal is. < 1725982575 646121 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh < 1725982599 853770 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well now you know ig:) < 1725982705 942444 :sprout!~sprout@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't see why an esolang would need a goal? < 1725982750 162256 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idk < 1725984279 18622 :sprout!~sprout@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: my only advice is to start with something tiny < 1725984291 570442 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok < 1725984320 563559 :sprout!~sprout@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :since it probably won't be used by anyone it's usually not worth the effort to invest a lot of time into a language < 1725984388 525382 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idc < 1725984396 498971 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :time doest matter to me lol > 1725986309 211076 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138718&oldid=138717 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Erase data in a cell */ Header, formatting < 1725986649 430383 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what would happen ona computer if you fr just adeed two things that are underfined together? < 1725986652 760255 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like just did that < 1725986656 926980 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with no care in the world < 1725986664 51547 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :WHAT WOULD HAPPEN? < 1725986976 682288 :sprout!~sprout@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :ask chatgpt < 1725986989 364486 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :gud idea lol < 1725986991 215265 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :How do you have something undefined on a computer? < 1725987018 289862 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like lets say python where you do a + b but none of them are defined?? < 1725987025 870274 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :BUT YOU JUST LET IT HAPPEN < 1725987028 857417 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sor for caps < 1725987036 114285 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :without gigving an error? < 1725987038 755485 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*giving < 1725987260 8506 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1725988353 999701 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :asked chatgpt < 1725988356 512797 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no gud answer < 1725988376 914572 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :what a twist < 1725988410 530428 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol < 1725988728 763190 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1725989095 583969 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im so bored idk what to do < 1725989554 3020 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1725989977 574447 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1725990840 528747 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138719&oldid=138718 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-102) 10/* Interpreter */ < 1725990904 970653 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: It might be hard to think about, but technically a CPU never has undefined behavior. Similarly, every Python name refers to some object, and Python's VM defines their interactions. < 1725990921 568354 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :interesting < 1725990930 488928 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so what would happen < 1725990935 513560 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wouæd i just get garbage? > 1725990946 369104 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138720&oldid=138719 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+17) 10/* Syntax */ < 1725990979 597618 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: I'm asking you how the situation arises in the first place. < 1725991194 524179 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well i said. but now when you say that < 1725991200 918156 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it wouldnt be undefined < 1725991244 297225 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :In Python, it's not possible to get into this situation without manually writing bytecode. The VM will LOAD_FAST both `a` and `b`, then BINARY_OP them with `+`. < 1725991268 941567 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh < 1725991269 950431 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :kk < 1725991277 49403 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The typical CPU can't really do this either. If you ask it to ADD two registers, then it'll do that regardless of whether you put values into those registers. < 1725991326 155261 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :When folks say that a behavior is undefined, they are usually being *epistemic*, not *ontic*. They're talking about *what we know* about the CPU, not *what it actually does*. > 1725991394 462398 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Comment14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138721&oldid=138699 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+55) 10/* Languages with halting instructions/infinite loops */ > 1725991505 319820 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Comment14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138722&oldid=138721 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+35) 10/* ////Thue/Expansion */ > 1725991625 904371 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Comment14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138723&oldid=138722 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+9) 10/* ////Thue/Expansion/A=B */ < 1725991639 504585 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well < 1725991642 333138 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i have an answer < 1725991717 896527 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and another question > 1725991719 887140 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Comment14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138724&oldid=138723 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+17) 10/* Languages with halting instructions/infinite loops */ < 1725991825 774981 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and that is what if you just let the CPU do whatever < 1725991927 904198 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think some instructions in 6502 are unstable, although this is different from the undefined behaviour in programming languages such as C. > 1725992242 203694 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Comment14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138725&oldid=138724 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+161) 10/* ////Thue/Expansion/A=B */ < 1725992340 475520 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Then you get what we call a "weird machine": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weird_machine < 1725992359 275327 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Even here, though, we see that the CPU tends to enter stable "weird states" which are programmable with "weird instructions". < 1725992388 297334 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oooo < 1725992402 231159 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i would like to see a esolang like dis > 1725992442 466789 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138726&oldid=138720 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+66) 10 < 1725992517 966597 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :imma make a weirdmachie rn < 1725992521 839692 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idk how < 1725992523 950268 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but i will < 1725992773 421286 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :plz help < 1725992784 815566 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how would you do it? < 1725992906 32444 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1725992981 319490 :wWwwW83!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW < 1725993197 333212 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1725993292 87885 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138727&oldid=138726 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+34) 10/* Interpreter */ > 1725993311 641834 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138728&oldid=138727 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+8) 10/* Interpreter */ > 1725993379 508843 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Triforce14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138729 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+124) 10Created page with "a space is not a triangle(lol) -x-~~~~" < 1725993762 309944 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW83: Weird machines usually arise from security vulnerabilities. To start building an understanding, maybe look up heap-spraying attacks in Web browsers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heap_spraying < 1725993785 563012 :wWwwW83!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im not trying to hack lol < 1725993799 439614 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The instructions normally would be interpreted as allocating objects in a loop. But they are actually weird instructions for confusing the underlying garbage collector. < 1725993890 50422 :wWwwW83!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wouldnt that be [-] for currentm cell in bf(lol?) < 1725993893 646821 :wWwwW83!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sounds like it < 1725993895 276261 :wWwwW83!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but idk < 1725994013 136431 :wWwwW83!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait < 1725994027 407865 :wWwwW83!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think ive made one < 1725994028 406770 :wWwwW83!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idk < 1725994395 498132 :wWwwW83!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i did it it think < 1725994397 657336 :wWwwW83!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :less gooo < 1725994764 510982 :wWwwW83!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1725995452 308576 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138730&oldid=138728 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+229) 10/* Examples */ > 1725995462 833382 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138731&oldid=138730 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+1) 10/* Hello, world! */ < 1725995468 259260 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1725995577 196179 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (H-M)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138732&oldid=136081 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+242) 10/* Homespring */ > 1725995932 140130 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138733&oldid=138731 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+114) 10/* Examples */ > 1725995941 404580 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138734&oldid=138733 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+1) 10/* =Move data from a cell to an another cell */ < 1725995950 652040 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1725996198 830531 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1725997842 546140 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138735&oldid=138734 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+75) 10/* Truth-machine */ > 1725998047 291915 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138736&oldid=138735 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+1) 10/* Hello, world! */ > 1725998053 425742 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138737&oldid=138736 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+1) 10/* Hello, world! */ > 1725998070 949208 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138738&oldid=138737 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-1) 10/* Hello, world! */ < 1725998164 558769 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1725998244 835652 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1726000185 174110 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07'interbasic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138739&oldid=136454 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-3) 10/* Truth-machine */ > 1726000320 397787 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FlipFlop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138740&oldid=135022 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-8) 10 > 1726000396 306684 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FlipFlop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138741&oldid=138740 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+1) 10 > 1726000457 353877 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Old Branjunk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138742&oldid=137710 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-1) 10/* Syntax */ < 1726003012 844654 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1726003383 410996 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.147.161 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale > 1726003518 824770 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10moved [[02GD Auto level10]] to [[Gd auto level]]: history merge to revert pagemove vandalism > 1726003518 840143 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02Gd auto level10]]": Deleted to make way for move from "[[GD Auto level]]" > 1726003533 608506 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 restore10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10undeleted "[[02Gd auto level10]]": history merge > 1726003558 64605 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gd auto level14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138744&oldid=138743 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1131) 10set top revision after history merge > 1726003601 61425 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/protect14]]4 protect10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10protected "[[Gd auto level [move=sysop] (indefinite)]]": move warring lock this at the name the creator of the language chose > 1726003634 539015 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GD auto level14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138746&oldid=138676 5* 03Ais523 5* (+0) 10fix double redirect after move war > 1726003804 601390 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138747&oldid=138563 5* 03Ais523 5* (+654) 10/* gd auto level */ new section > 1726004298 452055 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname479814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138748&oldid=138277 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1107) 10warning for move warring, and a reminder about what changes are acceptable to pages about esolangs other people created < 1726004346 831904 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1726004363 900656 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1726004445 438900 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1726004522 82796 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : wWwwW: It might be hard to think about, but technically a CPU never has undefined behavior. ← I'm not convinced I agree – many CPUs have instructions documented as having behaviour that isn't defined in all circumstances, and in some cases (e.g. the 6502) the behaviour is not consistent in practice either < 1726004626 785926 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although there are also cases where the behaviour is documented as undefined, but is in fact 100% consistent, and the manufacturer has kept it consistent for compatibility reasons even though it would be more efficient to change it < 1726004660 979832 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. on x86/x86-64, BSF on a register holds 0 (documented as undefined by Intel, and as leaving the register unchanged by AMD – Intel's behaviour in practice is the same as AMD's) < 1726004689 328608 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.147.161 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1726004691 802216 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but there are plenty of cases where the behaviour depends on analog effects, and those in turn can depend on noise < 1726004803 301906 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also I think most CPUs can't get into a state where a register doesn't have a value – but it's quite common to get "open bus" behaviour when older CPUs attempt to read a memory address that doesn't correspond to physical memory < 1726004864 71950 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which typically returns some value that was recently read or written using the same wires, or some default value if they weren't recently used, but in between you get a mix and the length of time it takes to go from one state to the other varies based on analog factors < 1726007081 433930 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.203.184 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale < 1726007326 871043 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1726007462 335598 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1726010018 123765 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah. Also, not undefined behavior, but x86 has a bunch of cases for old instructions where the documentation says that some or all of the arithmetic FLAGS bits are left with an undefined value. This can happen with at least AND, OR, XOR, TEST; SHR, SAL, SAR, ROL, ROR, RCL, RCR; MUL, IMUL, DIV, IDIV; BT, BTR, BTS, BTC; BSF, BSR; AAA, AAS, AAD, AAM, DAA, DAS. That's almost every old instruction that can < 1726010024 363312 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :modify the arithmetic bits in the flags, except for ADD, ADC, SUB, SBB, CMP, INC, DEC; CMC, CLC, STC; SAHF, and the ones that load the entire FLAGS or EFLAGS. Newer instructions usually avoid this sort of undefined result. < 1726010085 517710 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I actually don't know what those instructions do to the flags in practice, nor whether or not it's consistent < 1726010097 803886 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know either < 1726010127 414736 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :BSF leaving the register unchanged is an interesting problem for compiler writers, though, because if you choose to rely on that behaviour you can make the asm considerably simpler and less branchy < 1726010135 506844 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but, it's relying on UB < 1726010146 96601 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :LLVM chooses not to rely on the UB, at least when compiling Rust < 1726010265 327365 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.203.184 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1726010397 443148 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: wait, that is UB? I thought that was documented, but I also thought it was usually not worth to use on modern CPUs, which specifically add a prefixed variant for BSF and BSR with very different opcodes that does not do that to avoid the extra dependency on the old value of the register > 1726010483 896378 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Scratch is dumb14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138749&oldid=138705 5* 03None1 5* (+266) 10 < 1726010568 134043 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or do you mean using the undefined behavior offered by the source language (eg. C) low-level function? < 1726010570 994869 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: it's UB on Intel but not AMD, according to the docs < 1726010602 715878 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :on modern CPUs, you just use lzcnt and tzcnt, yes, but current compilers aren't by default generating code that assumes they're available < 1726010633 627021 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh, you're right, the Intel docs says that the destination register gains undefined value after BSF and BSR with 0 input operand < 1726010638 633066 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I hadn't known that < 1726010666 578213 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although, they get interpreted as their older equivalent on older CPUs, which is useful in the case of tzcnt because the results are the same for all arguments except 0 < 1726010686 474187 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so you can just set the result register to 64 and then tzcnt, and you get the right result on both new and old CPUs < 1726010702 426784 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this doesn't work with lzcnt becaue the return values are different < 1726010733 523965 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it doesn't work with LZCNT? interesting, I never noticed that < 1726010763 96462 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because LZCNT counts 0 = most significant and the old instruction counts 0 = least significant < 1726010778 76584 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so you can't interpret the return value without knowing which instruction you used < 1726010809 568741 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :when were these instructions added? between SSE4.2 and AVX with the marketing bit-manipulation instructions like BLSI? or earlier? < 1726010891 391236 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it isn't obvious because they have their own feature flag, so it might not even be monotonically increasing < 1726010942 66731 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, Wikipedia says it's part of BMI1 and just has the feature flags done weirdly < 1726010943 374672 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure < 1726010989 56967 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, and AMD got there first < 1726010995 193619 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which nearly *always* screws up the feature flags < 1726011031 614640 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or, well, LZCNT is by AMD and TZCNT by Intel, just to make things as thoroughly confusing as possible < 1726011044 185320 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :rofl < 1726011080 825657 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that sounds like a mess < 1726011138 363875 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the ABM flag (which AMD invented) reflects LZCNT support, and BMI1 reflects TZCNT support, on both AMD and Intel processors; but all Intel processors that set either set both < 1726011165 265718 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.206.114.nat.ftth.dynamic.t-mobile.pl QUIT : < 1726011219 403587 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it looks like TZCNT and LZCNT were added roughly at the same time as AVX2, so later than I thought < 1726011273 497889 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Intel added them at the same time as the BMI2 instructions (which include the select operator from INTERCAL) < 1726011428 853223 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and that was around AVX2, rather than before AVX like I implied earlier. ok. < 1726011472 157491 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :AVX confuses me because I can never remember which instructions it does < 1726011474 78987 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then it's not that surprising that compilers can often still not use it if you don't specifically target a later processor < 1726011499 163541 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :IIRC it was a more efficient API and more consistent encodings for the existing SSE instructions, plus a few 256-bit instructions but not very many of them? < 1726011519 707132 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, is there an equivalent of caniuse.com but for processor instructions? < 1726011549 112909 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm mostly interested in whether targeting AVX2/BMI2 by default is reasonable nowadays or whether there are likely to be users who don't have support < 1726011557 346326 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what do you mean? AVX contains vector instructions similar to SSE2, but they're encoded in a very different way, and the floating-point ones can be either 32 byte wide (on the newly introduced YMM registers) or 16 bytes wide, while the integer ones can only be 16 byte wide, right? < 1726011579 433667 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, is it just a float/int split? < 1726011590 958075 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I thought it implemented a few of the instructions at 32 but most at 16 < 1726011628 346966 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this might explain why LLVM prefers to use floating-point instructions for memcpy, if they were added before the equivalent integer instructions < 1726011631 506035 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it also has lots of new vector instructions for integers, but I think the 32 bytes is just floating points < 1726011688 506113 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although, I think the general performance advice with vector registers is "you can use the 16-byte ones for occasional use without trouble but the 32-byte ones only help if you use them heavily" < 1726011705 80766 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but this later got fixed by AVX2 which I think added 32 byte long versions for all the integer vector AVX instructions (except that some of the shuffling instructions shuffle only within a 16 byte block and there are new possibly slower shuffler instructions for the full 32 bytes wide) < 1726011741 926909 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :calling conventions for AVX2 are a mess – it doesn't mix well performance-wise with SSE-encoded vector instructions < 1726011745 6413 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also all the AVX vector instructions have a name starting with V and they clear the top half of the YMM registers even if they only do a 16 byte operation -- the existing SSE2 instructions couldn't be modified this way because of ABI compatibility < 1726011758 296725 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yep < 1726011782 141605 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, but I think that's s/calling conventions for AVX2/calling conventions for AVX/ < 1726011805 264516 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the ABI requires a vzeroupper before calling or returning from a function, if you use the high half of a vector < 1726011820 323929 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so that if the other function uses SSE there isn't a performance penalty < 1726011866 542934 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, but this is becoming less of a problem on later processors < 1726011949 225627 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the ABI incompatibility is real and can't be fixed without defining a whole new incompatible ABI for which you have to recompile every user-level library, but the penalty almost never applies to recent CPUs because the processors are better optimized to handle this < 1726012276 901569 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also AVX adds some new floating-point vector instructions, and some non-vector instructions, and it does *not* add many new integer vector arithmetic instructions despite what I said < 1726012524 509771 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the new integer vector instructions are added by SSE3 and SSE4_2 (which precede AVX) and then AVX512, with only a few in AVX and AVX2 < 1726012530 653958 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or at least few that I care about < 1726012774 87657 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : the ABI incompatibility is real and can't be fixed without defining a whole new incompatible ABI for which you have to recompile every user-level library, but the penalty almost never applies to recent CPUs because the processors are better optimized to handle this ← IIRC the modern processors are actually worse-optimised to handle all the combinations, some optimisations were removed to simplify the situations where they weren't neeed < 1726012778 717156 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*needed