00:00:02 I think modern processors are slow if you use leave a value in the top half of the YMM registers and then use SSE instructions, older ones had a special case for that 00:00:20 but, modern compilers know that doing that is slow, and take care to not leave a value in the top half 00:01:18 I remember being disappointed that AVX and AVX2 don't have any multiplications bigger than a 32-to-64-bit widening multiply 00:01:38 to be honest a lot of the newly added instructions feel weird to me, like they're there either for marketing to boost the number of mnemonics, or to help beginner programmers who don't understand enough programming to use the smaller but versatile SSE/SSE2/SSE3/SSE4_2 instruction set. not all instructions are like that, some are genuinely useful new features, just a lot of them. 00:01:43 if I need to do 64-bit multiplies, it is not even worth vectorising, as I'd have to use the entire vector unit just to do the individual parts of the multiply 00:02:16 b_jonas: I think they're there for marketing but for a different reason: companies paying Intel to add really specific commands that would help some particular project they're working on 00:02:23 and Intel not caring that they're useless for everyone else 00:02:28 ais523: yes, unless you can use double float multiplications 00:03:00 ais523: possible 00:03:24 float multiply on integers only gives you 53 or 54 bits, right? so that's worse than 32-to-64 widening multiply unless your arguments are very unbalanced 00:03:42 (assuming a double-precision float) 00:03:44 -!- mtm has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:05:26 ais523: yes, but only if you want the whole integer result. sometimes you'll want only the high bits. 00:06:15 -!- mtm has joined. 00:06:39 though maybe that doesn't happen that often when 32 bits aren't enough and you aren't already working with double floats 00:10:24 but I think the double float multiply can be useful for geometric distorting high bit depth (between 10 and 16 bits inclusive, such as raw from camera sensor) pixmap images without losing much precision 00:14:07 (well not raw camera sensor really, but after debayering)\ 00:18:06 -!- FreeFull has joined. 00:19:58 I use a keyboard with a 101/104 key style enter key at home, and a keyboard with a 102/105 key style enter key at work. You have to press enter at somewhat different places between the two. This results in me often pressing enter wrong, and *in both directions* that often results in pressing the backslash key by accident togethr with enter. This is probably the closest I have to a true "walked uphill 00:20:04 both ways" story. 00:24:23 hmm, the UK keyboard layout has a confusing Enter key placement, but backslash is on the entire opposite end of the keyboard 00:24:51 Return and # together occupy the space that would be occupied entirely by Return on a US keyboard 00:25:32 although, if you press # on a keyboard that's physically a UK keyboard, but set to a US keyboard layout, you get \ (which is a little weird – I would have expected it to act as Return) 01:24:20 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 01:45:34 Smalltalk-72 is... interesting. It's not very Smalltalky, it's more like.... Smalltalk + fexprs or forth or... whatever allows functions to parse whatever comes next 02:09:03 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:10:09 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:10:14 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:12:25 [[User talk:Unname4798]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138750&oldid=138748 * Tommyaweosme * (+168) /* Move warring */ 02:27:50 -!- moony has joined. 02:31:47 -!- moony has quit (Client Quit). 02:34:14 ais523, b_jonas: I agree with all your points. I was hoping to show wwwww that, when it comes to programming machines, you can't really set the machine to an undefined state, only a state you don't know much about. 02:34:46 Like, the entire reason why programming is so difficult is because no matter what you do, all you can really give the computer is a pile of details, each one perfectly observed. 02:35:12 Or to paraphrase the classic film Anchorman, the computer will read *exactly* what you tell it to read. 03:12:19 -!- craigo has joined. 03:22:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 03:24:42 [[Triforce]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138751&oldid=35497 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+77) Categories 03:30:43 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 03:31:09 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:32:06 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 04:17:51 -!- ipadwwwww has joined. 04:31:23 [[Talk:1L AOI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138752&oldid=23348 * Gggfr * (+188) /* No null output? */ 04:34:44 [[Xx]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138753&oldid=134577 * Gggfr * (+39) 04:35:55 -!- ipadwwwww has quit (Quit: Client closed). 04:37:54 -!- ipadwwwww has joined. 04:39:41 is dis a gud esolang? https://esolangs.org/wiki/Xⁿxₙ 04:45:20 -!- moony has joined. 04:52:14 -!- ipadwwwww has quit (Quit: Client closed). 04:53:48 -!- ipadwwwww has joined. 05:03:48 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 05:05:01 -!- iovoid has joined. 05:15:10 [[Solve for x]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138754 * Gggfr * (+720) Created page with "'''Solve for x''' is a esolang that yet you cant program in. this is becuase Solve for x is a esolang that you must solve for. == properties == (from now on i will be saying x) these are the properties of x * there is only one [[Quine]] for x but infinite [[Narcissist 05:15:29 -!- ipadwwwww has quit (Quit: Client closed). 05:15:59 -!- wWwwW has joined. 05:17:21 [[Solve for x]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138755&oldid=138754 * Yayimhere * (+36) 05:28:11 -!- perlbot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:29:32 -!- simcop2387 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:30:34 -!- wWwwW has quit (Quit: Client closed). 05:42:13 -!- simcop2387 has joined. 05:43:18 -!- perlbot has joined. 06:15:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:36:20 [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138756&oldid=138624 * Ractangle * (+18) 06:59:01 -!- tromp has joined. 07:56:17 [[Input hello world or else:/the file in questoin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138757&oldid=138440 * Ractangle * (+0) 07:56:33 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[Input hello world or else:/the file in questoin]] to [[Input hello world or else:/the file in question]] 07:56:54 [[Input hello world or else:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138760&oldid=138486 * Ractangle * (+0) 08:03:00 -!- __monty__ has joined. 08:04:00 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 08:09:41 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:11:32 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 08:23:56 -!- tromp has joined. 09:29:06 -!- dawids has joined. 09:31:09 [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138761&oldid=138747 * Unname4798 * (+250) 09:32:42 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 09:37:56 -!- tromp has joined. 10:05:24 -!- dawids has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:38:39 [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138762&oldid=138738 * Ractangle * (+59) /* Hello, world! */ 10:39:07 [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (H-M)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138763&oldid=138732 * Ractangle * (+59) /* How dare you fuck the brain */ 11:56:21 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:58:22 [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (T-Z)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138764&oldid=137211 * Ractangle * (-50) /* Waretel BASIC */ 12:03:54 -!- mtm has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:05:55 -!- mtm has joined. 12:17:43 [[Brainfuck code generation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138765&oldid=125035 * Heathcorp * (+17) Add Mastermind link to languages that compile to brainfuck 12:33:17 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 12:56:04 [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138766&oldid=138762 * Ractangle * (+73) /* Move data from a cell to an another cell */ 12:57:33 [[A+B Problem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138767&oldid=138407 * Ractangle * (+90) /* Headache (lang that compiles to brainfuck) */ 12:58:19 [[A+B Problem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138768&oldid=138767 * Ractangle * (-2) /* How dare you fuck the brain */ 13:03:48 -!- tromp has joined. 13:29:07 -!- wWwwW has joined. 13:32:29 can YOU solve for x? https://esolangs.org/wiki/Solve_for_x 13:33:13 [[Solve for x]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138769&oldid=138755 * Yayimhere * (+47) 13:37:07 [[Solve for x]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138770&oldid=138769 * Yayimhere * (+14) 13:40:55 [[Solve for x]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138771&oldid=138770 * Yayimhere * (+49) 13:43:11 [[Solve for x]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138772&oldid=138771 * Yayimhere * (-866) Blanked the page 13:43:24 wait im moving it 13:44:19 [[Ironlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138773&oldid=135125 * Froginstarch * (+84) /* Instructions */ 13:45:33 [[Final Word Of The Day]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138774 * Yayimhere * (+911) Created page with "'''Final Word Of The Day''' is a esolang that yet you cant program in. this is becuase Solve for x is a esolang that you must solve for. it was created by [[User:Yayimhere]] == properties == (from now on i will be saying x to represent Final Word Of The D 13:45:48 [[Final Word Of The Day]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138775&oldid=138774 * Yayimhere * (+10) 13:47:38 [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138776&oldid=138756 * Yayimhere * (+10) 13:52:15 can YOU solve for x? https://esolangs.org/wiki/Final_Word_Of_The_Day 13:55:12 [[Final Word Of The Day]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138777&oldid=138775 * Yayimhere * (+34) 13:57:34 -!- amby has joined. 14:05:33 -!- craigo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:20:55 -!- Europe2048 has joined. 14:27:22 i wonder if anybody can tho... 14:29:53 [[Talk:0134]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138778&oldid=136413 * Yayimhere * (+151) 14:30:13 [[Talk:0134]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138779&oldid=138778 * Yayimhere * (+2) 14:30:46 [[Talk:0134]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138780&oldid=138779 * Yayimhere * (+19) 14:31:46 -!- Europe2048 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 14:41:31 [[Fixed Repeating Output]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138781&oldid=128753 * Ractangle * (-84) /* :] */ 14:41:39 [[Fixed Repeating Output]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138782&oldid=138781 * Ractangle * (+85) 14:43:44 [[How dare you fuck the brain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138783&oldid=138766 * Ractangle * (-14) /* Interpreter */ 14:44:59 [[Fixed Repeating Output]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138784&oldid=138782 * Ractangle * (+70) /* Brainfuck+2 */ 14:45:23 [[Fixed Repeating Output]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138785&oldid=138784 * Ractangle * (-69) Wrong place 14:45:34 [[Fixed Repeating Output]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138786&oldid=138785 * Ractangle * (+69) There 14:57:22 [[Seclusion]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138787&oldid=118684 * Hakerh400 * (+0) 15:09:10 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:13:19 [[Talk:SubI machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138788 * Yayimhere * (+160) Created page with "delete TC tag while its not prooven bro. i will do it if you dont [-~~~~-]" 15:21:24 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Graypinkfurball * New user account 15:27:47 -!- tromp has joined. 15:40:51 [[Looping counter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138789&oldid=138404 * Ractangle * (+43) /* G# */ 15:42:50 -!- Europe2048 has joined. 15:45:25 [[User:XKCD Random Number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138790&oldid=137592 * Ractangle * (+46) /* Hexdump */ 15:47:30 [[Looping counter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138791&oldid=138789 * Yayimhere * (-125) /* G# */ its no a unary looping counter 15:50:13 [[Looping counter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138792&oldid=138791 * Yayimhere * (-44) /* How dare you fuck the brain */ also not a looping counter since its not unary 15:54:03 -!- Europe2048 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 15:59:26 [[REG.TYPE = STR TRUE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138793&oldid=134005 * Yayimhere * (+0) /* examples */ 15:59:46 [[Looping counter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138794&oldid=138792 * Yayimhere * (+0) /* REG.TYPE = STR TRUE */ 16:07:04 now i need help 16:07:18 its kinda boring on the https://esolangs.org/wiki/Final_Word_Of_The_Day page 16:07:27 its jyst the properties 16:07:38 so can i get help finding a eso,.ang that works 16:15:28 wWwwW: What will you do with it? 16:15:38 code 16:15:41 hate myself 16:15:49 add to page 16:15:54 to make it interesting 16:17:13 wWwwW: Sure, code, but code *what*? What do you want to express? What do you want to communicate? What do you want your art to mean? 16:19:39 i want my art to mean: 16:19:39 im bored all day 16:19:40 i think many things are interesting 16:19:40 concepts are to be tested an used in the wrong places 16:19:41 what i want to code(bascially my goals): 16:19:41 truth machine 16:19:42 looping counter 16:19:42 TC proof(since it has to be) 16:19:44 idk 16:21:37 Am I right in guessing that you're a young student still learning about the world? Or are you an adult returning to this world after experiencing real life? 16:21:48 first 16:21:53 so yes 16:21:57 also i 16:22:05 ..lets say i have a hard time in school 16:22:07 I would encourage students to examine many *different* ways of existing. For computers, this means many different languages. 16:22:12 Oh, no worries. I'm a dropout. 16:22:19 oh ok 16:22:27 very smart then 16:22:28 but yea 16:22:33 Nonetheless studying is required. Try to draw a distinction between work done for grades and work done for exploration. 16:22:34 i like to browse the wiki 16:22:39 with random 16:22:52 to see different stuff 16:23:03 One technique I really liked at university was forcing students to explore different "paradigms" of programming, from different families of language design. 16:23:18 ive *tried* to do that 16:23:21 like 16:23:25 object 16:23:28 declarative 16:23:42 other stuff 16:23:49 functional 16:23:57 Like, you should spend 4wks *each* with a language from each of the families: Prolog, Smalltalk, Forth, Lisp, ML, and then an ALGOL for comparison. 16:24:01 string rewriting 16:24:17 (^rlly like dis one^) 16:25:08 will try that 16:25:13 Nah, you need an immersion in the *languages*, not just the "paradigms". Like, concretely try writing programs in miniKanren, Pharo, Factor, Racket, OCaml (or Haskell?) and then return to Python to see what you've learned. 16:25:27 not haskell 16:25:37 also i don think i have time for that 16:25:41 to learn stuff 16:25:50 also im a slow learner 16:26:09 Explore what makes them useful. miniKanren is great for constraint solving (CSP). Pharo has interesting GUI and Web tools. Factor and OCaml will bend your mind. Racket will show you how to make new languages. 16:26:30 ok 16:27:01 ...Weren't you just saying that you were bored? A bored artist is not interesting. To be artistic is to constantly struggle to express oneself. 16:27:17 well i do that too 16:27:20 im bored 16:27:26 but i still don have time 16:27:44 More seriously, I'm a musician and I used to spend hours at the piano practicing trills. My roommates do visual arts and are constantly talking of color theory, shading, etc. If you want to get into this stuff, you have to get *into* it. 16:27:55 ik 16:28:02 i get *into* programming 16:28:08 as much as i can 16:28:14 atleast i try 16:28:15 but also 16:28:20 idk if i work differently 16:28:26 but my stuff gets gud 16:28:36 when im bored 16:28:39 idk what to do 16:28:42 i get into it 16:28:45 and then 16:28:49 i get somethin good 16:29:14 Two things. First, relax and let your thoughts form complete sentences. You're not in a rush here; it's okay to take a minute and say what you want to say. 16:29:29 i am in a rush 16:29:32 i have like idk 16:29:51 until 8 o clock in denmark 16:29:56 then i need to go to sleep 16:29:58 school 16:30:00 go hom e 16:30:03 *home 16:32:13 so i kinda am ig 16:32:15 ah sorry 16:32:18 im just 16:32:20 Sure. Society asks too much of students. So, here's the second thing: at your age, you aren't expected to contribute to the future of esolangs. You certainly are allowed to contribute, but you're expected to take care of yourself and learn fundamentals first. 16:32:20 ... 16:33:02 sorry 16:33:04 It's *okay* to not have any dreams for new languages yet. I didn't start building languages until I was like 25 or 26 maybe, and I've only really written two serious languages, including one esolang. 16:33:16 i do 16:33:20 like thats what i am 16:33:24 basically alli 16:33:28 i am 16:33:35 is esolangs 16:33:41 they fly around in my head 16:34:41 idk what to do with them 16:34:43 idk 16:35:09 Learn a few dozen more languages and your head will quiet down. Right now you don't have many "schemata" (fancy psychology word), so each new language is going to seem like a radically new thing. Very interesting, much to learn. 16:36:02 can they be esolangs 16:36:17 my memory cant take like C or something 16:37:43 They could be esolangs, but it'll be easier and more efficient to learn languages intended for serious use. I gave you a bunch of options earlier. 16:37:55 ik 16:37:59 but i dont have like 16:38:08 the memory capacity 16:38:50 Take your time. Keep the docs open and refer to them often. Don't force yourself to memorize anything. Focus on *expressing* the parts of the *problem* that you want to solve. 16:39:04 ok 16:39:17 I've been writing Python professionally for over a decade. I still look at the docs daily. 16:39:58 ill try haskell then 16:40:52 but also the only reasaon ive learned pythonsi cuz i had another human involved 16:41:44 Sure. When you're just starting out, you might need in-person discussions from tutors or classes. That's common. 16:41:58 i don have mone 16:42:02 or the social skill 16:42:16 *money 16:42:48 Python meetups are usually free. Ask the people who introduced you to programming. There's likely something nearby. 16:43:23 #im danish and my teacher is southafrican 16:43:24 lol 16:43:35 And yes, you'll have to build social skills if you don't want to teach yourself by reading lots of books. You have to have information presented to you one way or another. 16:43:48 like conferences f my brain 16:44:02 mostly cuz i go bullied at school and still do 16:44:04 oh well 16:44:13 thats not something to talk about here 16:44:13 Me too. Don't worry, eventually school ends. 16:44:20 ik 16:44:25 but fuuuuuu 16:44:31 is it annoying every day lol 16:45:23 oh well 16:45:37 the worst thing is that they bully my brother 16:45:42 ig im just a "nerd" 16:47:08 oh well 16:47:12 i hate life ig 16:47:13 anyway 16:48:59 [[By+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=138795 * Catto.4 * (+2549) created page for by+ 16:49:52 ok 16:49:57 haskell in 16:49:58 yay 16:50:02 im taking totorial 16:50:11 *tutorial 16:50:13 or whatever 16:50:20 wtf is in 16:50:22 oh well 16:50:26 ill find out 16:51:01 oh so in atou applies 16:51:02 tf 16:51:03 oh well 16:51:04 golf ig 16:51:23 Haskell is a community flavor of Miranda, itself an attempt to make Lazy ML practical. Miranda was not Free Software for a long time, and the Haskell community formed to fix that. 16:51:44 oh 16:51:46 ok 16:51:47 damn 16:52:07 It's worth knowing about e.g. OCaml, which also inherits from ML via SML but is not lazy. The whole lazy-vs-eager thing, or strict vs non-strict, is a big deal. 16:52:41 rn im doing haskell 16:52:54 also why the hell is there the lambda symbol? 16:53:50 wait 16:54:04 the in makes definitions 16:54:17 When Alonzo Church went to typeset his work, he wanted to write something like a hat or overbar on top of each variable, like `ô.î.o` for what Haskellers would write as `\o -> \i -> o`. 16:54:36 However, the typesetter couldn't really do that, and the best they could do was to write a lambda before each variable name. 16:54:40 just auto walrus 16:54:52 It could be worse; Pythonistas would write `lambda o: lambda i: o`. 16:54:57 k korvo 16:58:39 wWwwW: As you learn more history, you'll be like "oh yeah, Church's lambda calculus". And later, you'll be like "oh that's the K combinator!" 16:58:42 [[By+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138796&oldid=138795 * Catto.4 * (+127) added optional argument to base 16:58:56 ik about both 16:59:04 ig im stupid idk 17:07:01 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:15:50 Nah, "smart" and "stupid" don't really mean much. You're *inexperienced*, and that's okay. 17:19:26 -!- X-Scale has joined. 17:24:45 k 17:24:56 -!- Europe2048 has joined. 17:29:27 idk 17:29:33 i dont want to go so deep 17:29:35 idk 17:30:59 hello 17:31:04 hey 17:31:06 hello 17:31:18 how are you? 17:31:24 gud 17:31:29 way 17:31:38 me2 17:31:40 What About You 17:31:52 yay 17:34:33 what are you doin rn 17:34:42 im questioning my own person 17:35:02 me? 17:35:17 wut 17:35:25 but yea 17:35:30 what are you doing? 17:35:49 not much 17:36:11 want somethin to do(lol) 17:37:12 cuz then i have something 17:39:25 what is it? 17:39:41 helping me solve for dis: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Final_Word_Of_The_Day 17:41:03 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:41:50 idk 17:42:17 I also can't solve it 17:42:28 ok 17:43:35 [[Final Word Of The Day]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138797&oldid=138777 * Yayimhere * (+49) 17:48:14 -!- Europe89 has joined. 17:49:52 -!- Europe89 has left. 17:50:07 -!- Europe2048 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:50:46 -!- Europe2048 has joined. 17:50:53 holeee i forgot this: https://esolangs.org/wiki/W) 17:55:11 ok..? 17:55:37 wut is dis 17:55:45 like why did i make tht 17:55:50 what do you think? 17:56:08 also bracket part of link 17:58:33 -!- Europe47 has joined. 17:58:34 -!- Europe47 has quit (Client Quit). 17:58:46 -!- Europe71 has joined. 17:58:48 -!- Europe71 has left. 17:59:09 -!- Europe70 has joined. 17:59:25 -!- Europe70 has left. 18:02:35 -!- Europe2048 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:08:52 I think that joke languages shouldn't be the primary targets for disambiguations, unless they are as notable as INTERCAL. 18:09:05 wut 18:09:15 it aint a joke 18:09:25 wait wut 18:09:29 im confused 18:10:01 Oh, I was looking at W, sorry. 18:10:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:10:12 oh 18:10:14 k 18:10:24 although iNTERCAL is a joke by normal language standards, it is not a joke by esolang standards 18:10:34 true 18:10:35 I don't have any serious opinions about Final Word of the Day yet. I can't really say much about a language without seeing its syntax: tokens, grammar, encoding, etc. 18:10:48 true 18:11:38 Final Word of the Day makes me wonder if it would be possible to design an esolang in that style, sufficiently to narrow it down to only one possible language 18:11:58 in a way, it is a declarative esolang specification, as opposed to the normal imperative style of writing specifications 18:12:06 true 18:12:18 [[W)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138798&oldid=134904 * Yayimhere * (+179) 18:13:26 Ah, I see now. w> looks fun. I've seen similar 2D languages before but I'm struggling to recall any of their names. 18:13:39 thx! 18:14:58 [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138799&oldid=138776 * Yayimhere * (+12) 18:16:10 [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138800&oldid=138799 * Yayimhere * (+0) 18:16:59 this doesn't explain whether the pointer turns left or right, when turning 90 degrees 18:17:13 well 18:17:26 also, starting in the top left moving left is weird – you would have to change the pointer direction immediately to prevent it escaping the program 18:17:45 it turns 90 degrees 18:17:49 from current direction 18:17:58 if its going down it would go right 18:18:00 I think most 2D languages solve the "does it turn left or right?" problem by having two commands, one for each direction 18:18:09 going left is also 90 degrees from down, though 18:18:19 no 18:18:22 thats -90 18:18:24 right? 18:18:26 im confused 18:18:27 aaa 18:18:34 oh, there is more than one convention for this 18:18:52 some mathematical conventions have it always measured anticlockwise, in which case you can say "90 degrees anticlockwise" 18:18:53 how would i write that 18:19:02 I think that's the one you're using 18:19:14 ok 18:19:16 thx! 18:19:28 [[W)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138801&oldid=138798 * Yayimhere * (+14) 18:19:44 fixed it :) 18:19:50 korvo: re: existing languages, there's https://esolangs.org/wiki/Shove but it's different enough to probably not be a see also – there might be a more similar one 18:20:35 ais523: I always think of these as "laser tank" languages after a childhood puzzle game that involved shooting laser beams at mazes of mirrors. 18:21:05 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Black was vaguely inspired by such a game 18:21:11 although all the rules are different 18:21:15 wait no way 18:21:17 DAAAAAMN 18:21:22 also i love Black 18:21:53 Nice. Very similar vibe, yeah. 18:22:11 early in esolangs.org's history, people were looking to make a 2D language with only one command + NOP 18:22:12 BLACK IS THE BEST(im a black lover lol) 18:22:32 ais523: like 1L_x? 18:22:35 yep 18:22:43 ok 18:22:48 Black was my attempt, although looking at adjacent squares makes it cheating in a way 18:23:09 (much later I produced https://esolangs.org/wiki/Nopstacle) 18:23:12 i dont think so 18:24:15 oops, I think I tagged Nopstacle as implemented by mistake 18:24:28 the fact that Turnfunge is insane to me 18:24:35 [[Nopstacle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138802&oldid=130573 * Ais523 * (+2) fix categorisation mistake 18:24:38 the things that are TC man 18:25:05 it took a lot of practice as a community before we got that style of language to be TC that simply 18:25:19 yes 18:25:20 back when we were starting out, we couldn't do much better than https://esolangs.org/wiki/1L_a 18:26:27 Turnfunge reminds me of https://esolangs.org/wiki/OFFICIAL 18:26:59 (also apparently 1L_a still hasn't been proven TC? I might have a look at that) 18:27:09 yea 18:27:18 im the one who talked 'bout that right? 18:27:47 no 18:28:07 that was on i think 1L_A somethin somethin 18:29:24 dis one: https://esolangs.org/wiki/1L_AOI 18:30:03 my guess is that OFFICIAL is sub-TC, although it is able to count arbitrarily high I don't think there's any way to read any form of counter it has when it gets large enough to escape the original bounds of the program 18:31:18 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:31:49 true 18:32:22 if prooved 18:32:38 bye 18:32:42 -!- wWwwW has quit (Quit: Client closed). 18:35:20 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[User:Ractangle/(x]] to [[Gora]] 18:37:48 hmm, I'm not convinced 1L_AOI is TC, it looks like there is no way to set a zero cell to nonzero because if the MP is over a zero cell, you can't change direction and thus can't change the command from an MP-moving command to a value-changing command 18:38:44 and cpressey noticed the same thing a while ago 18:40:05 [[1L AOI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138805&oldid=31425 * Ais523 * (-28) remove Turing tarpits category although it was intended to be one, it has no way to change zero values to nonzero (see comments by Chris Pressey on talk), and needs to change values to zero in order to test them, thus can only read memory finitely many times and is not TC 18:43:38 [[1L]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138806&oldid=90777 * Ais523 * (+104) add Turnfunge and Nopstacle 18:44:02 [[Gora]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138807&oldid=138803 * Ractangle * (+181) 18:44:25 OK, so what if we average Turnfunge (turn left when there is a solid cell behind the pointer) and Nopstacle (turn left when there is a solid cell in front of the pointer), producing a "turn left when there is a solid cell at the pointer" language 18:45:03 I initially assumed that was sub-TC because otherwise Turnfunge would have been defined like that, but that isn't actually valid reasoning so I should think about it properly 18:45:25 [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138808&oldid=138634 * Ractangle * (+52) /* Esolangs */ 18:46:02 ah, I see, it's reversible, which doesn't necessarily make it sub-TC but makes the proof much harder 18:47:27 even in 2024, I think it is still the case that we have no good tarpits for TCness proofs of reversible counter machines (https://esolangs.org/wiki/Flow_of_Holes was designed as a step in that sort of proof but it isn't a very simple one) 18:48:28 and in particular I am not sure that two counters is enough for a reversible counter machine to be TC 18:48:52 (but I am also not sure that it is not enough) 18:49:51 [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138809&oldid=138808 * Ractangle * (+36) /* Esolangs */ 18:52:47 [[Gora]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138810&oldid=138807 * Ractangle * (+156) 19:06:24 [[Gora]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138811&oldid=138810 * Ractangle * (+7) 19:09:40 [[Gora]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138812&oldid=138811 * Ractangle * (+44) 19:22:45 [[Gora]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138813&oldid=138812 * Ractangle * (+40) 19:26:33 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed). 19:31:30 [[Gora]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138814&oldid=138813 * Ractangle * (+30) 19:37:02 [[Gora]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138815&oldid=138814 * Ractangle * (+70) /* Syntax */ 19:37:52 [[Gora]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138816&oldid=138815 * Ractangle * (+132) /* Examples */ 19:40:40 [[By+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138817&oldid=138796 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+14) Lowercase 19:42:31 [[Spacechem Programming Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138818&oldid=40146 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) Category 20:09:49 -!- X-Scale has joined. 20:18:35 [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=138819&oldid=138761 * Tommyaweosme * (+296) /* gd auto level */ 20:24:54 Bah. Tried to use a test query of "Could you explain what the Funciton language is all about?" for the LLM thing (updated the model), but the keyword extraction scheme helpfully extracted the keyword "function", which of course doesn't find anything relevant, so the model output was just: > The "Funciton" language is not mentioned in the text. It's likely a typo or a term not relevant to the 20:24:56 provided context. 20:25:58 It's now using Gemma 2.0 rather than 1.1, since they released the 2B(-ish) parameter size version of Gemma 2 as well. But really the model quality hasn't been the (main) problem in getting useful responses: the search and article selection is (plus context size limits that haven't changed). 20:26:31 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:27:06 I think I probably just need some sort of maybe TF-IDF-ranked full text search thing on the original question, as-is, rather than asking the model to extract search keywords. 20:28:26 (Or maybe I could just use the custom Google search API, they've indexed the wiki anyway and it has a free tier of 100 queries per day. I just liked the notion of this being entirely self-hosted.) 21:40:44 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:48:37 -!- __monty__ has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:08:32 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).