00:00:02 yes – what seems to happen in practice with editors like Microsoft Word is that it guesses a paper size when you create the document, then saves it in the document 00:00:09 but this causes problems when the guess is wrong 00:01:08 And, about WYSIWYG, when editing rich text, a "Reveal Codes" feature like WordPerfect will be needed. 00:01:45 yes 00:02:10 A program that requires a paper size should be allowed to be configured anyways; but the printer driver configuration can be used if a paper size is somehow required even though it has not been configured for that file nor for that program. 00:02:44 in my case, my computer is usually not attached to a printer 00:03:20 if I need to print something (which is very rare) I can borrow a printer, but that's typically only after I've already written the document 00:05:03 for what it's worth, I have also had dreams of writing my own OS, but my plans involved using an existing kernel and just replacing the userland (because it would be too difficult to rewrite all the device drivers from scratch) 00:05:29 Yes, although I meant the printer driver configuration, which is not the same as the printer itself (although it could be automatically configured according to the printer if you have one). (You could install a null printer driver if you need to, although in the case I described it would not be necessary if you only want to configure one specific program or file. However, it would be useful if you commonly use one paper size.) 00:07:16 About using existing kernels, my idea is that such a thing might be possible, at least with some kernels; it might be possible to run it inside of another operating system (I think Inferno also does), although standalone implementations would also be possible. The specification is separate from the implementation, so multiple implementations are possible. (In some cases, it might help to modify the existing kernels; I don't know, thoug 00:11:20 Character encoding is another thing included in the locale in some systems but that also belongs with the data being displayed. In my system, this would be handled by Common Data Format; in addition to Extended TRON Code, you can also specify arbitrary 8-bit character sets. 00:12:09 The keyboard manager also allows selecting a 8-bit character set (this is done by the application program) in "short character mode", and then if the user has a keyboard layout installed for that character set then it can be automatically selected. (For example, this ability might be useful for APL programming, maybe) 00:19:02 For telephone number formats, you can use international telephone numbers for better i18n; if the country code is known to not display it in some cases if desired, that could be a display setting for locales possibly, although you might want to deliberately display it anyways. For dialing telephone numbers, that can be the telephone modem configuration perhaps, that it knows to include or exclude country codes. 00:54:04 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 01:19:13 -!- lisbeths has joined. 01:32:49 [[Talk:2KWLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139846&oldid=139843 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+301) /* Comparison operators */ Reply 01:36:46 [[Geography table]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139847&oldid=139842 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+76) Stub, categories 01:55:01 -!- X-Scale has quit (Quit: Client closed). 02:04:09 -!- X-Scale has joined. 02:28:15 -!- X-Scale has quit (Quit: Client closed). 02:41:16 Do... amplifiers usually require two inputs? 02:41:42 Thinking of how students at MIT hooked up 4 lights on the PDP-1 to two amplifiers? speakers? 02:41:42 -!- craigo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:41:44 To get music 02:45:46 SIMH's help has a slightly misleading description 02:46:02 "The paper tape reader supports the BOOT command. BOOT PTR copies the RIM loader into memory and starts it running." 02:46:26 PDP-1 does not have a RIM loader program in memory, as I understand it 02:46:29 PDP-8 does 02:46:38 (Or, a RIM loader toggled into memory I mean) 02:47:37 And indeed, PDP-8 SIMH BOOT PTR copies a program into memory, and PDP-1 SIMH does not. 02:49:07 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-8#/media/File:PDP-8_I_Bedienfeld_(simuliert).png it's great that PDP-8 "ROM" is human entered/loaded rom 03:28:42 -!- lisbeths has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:35:31 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 03:35:35 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:36:53 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 03:54:05 [[User:^-^]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139848 * ^-^ * (+0) Created blank page 05:15:15 [[Category theory]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139849&oldid=139709 * Corbin * (+454) Rewrite the opening. 05:26:35 [[Category theory]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139850&oldid=139849 * Corbin * (+896) Add a section on codensity monads. 05:27:13 I still dislike the intro section, but I don't want to just stomp it, especially since I can't really replace it with much other than the standard formal definitions. 05:27:29 Maybe I should add more "a category can be thought of as" examples. 05:29:55 Another thing I would say about category theory would be that a category is like a monoid but that the composition has to match, like the number of rows has to match the number of columns of the other matrix. 05:30:05 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:30:35 (A monoid is effectively the case that all of them match.) 05:31:12 Yep, categories are generalized monoids. This is one of the edge cases of a process called -oidification. 05:32:18 Like, a group is merely a group object in Set, the category of sets. (A group object has all endomorphisms invertible; you can always undo an action.) A groupoid is a handful of group objects. 05:32:55 A category is like a monoidoid, if they could exist. Like you say, the composition has to be well-typed. 05:34:38 Another useful perspective: category theory is like categorified set theory. A set is merely a 0-category. Any set-theoretic construction can be redone in category theory without losing any information or flexibility. 05:35:30 At least, to me, it makes more sense to consider like monoids but they can match like that, rather than the usual way of considering category theory, although that works too of course. 05:37:57 (Also, to me, matrix multiplication seems the most obvious example, considering the definition of a category) 05:39:11 Yeah, the category Mat is nice. Its objects are literally just natural numbers. (It's technically Mat_k over some semiring k, which is less nice.) 05:39:42 [[Y/Y]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139851&oldid=139831 * Yayimhere * (-11) even theough now i cant remember stuff 'bout it i did make it i just made ai make an interpreter 05:39:58 And of course there's not-quite-category theory to consider. The most important case for us is probably dagger-category theory, which covers reversible/invertible transformations. 05:40:35 Historically that's meant quantum mechanics and other physics, but lately it's also used for relational logic. The category Rel of sets and relations is naturally a dagger-category, for example. 05:44:40 Also, I think categories can be addition, multiplication, expoentiation, where the finite discrete categories are effectively as good as natural numbers with these operations. 06:01:17 Yeah. And that can get really complex, as with PROPs. Terrible name for a cool idea. 06:12:51 [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139852&oldid=139654 * Ractangle * (-22) /* Other things */ 06:23:15 -!- tromp has joined. 07:32:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 07:59:14 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 08:02:05 -!- tromp has joined. 08:32:22 [[User:Yayimhere]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139853&oldid=139778 * Ractangle * (+10) /* esolangs */ 08:49:14 [[Unary Except Every Zero Is Replaced with the Title of This Programming Language or, Alternately, Is Replaced with the Smallest Counter-Example to the Goldbach Conjecture. Compilers and Interpreters Only Have to Implement the Former Option]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139854&oldid=139797 * Salpynx * (+4) /* Implementations */ self-link for clarity 09:14:24 [[User:DifferentDance8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139855&oldid=139697 * DifferentDance8 * (+21) 09:14:38 -!- __monty__ has joined. 09:22:50 [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139856&oldid=139852 * Ractangle * (-191) 09:25:54 [[Bfcompress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139857&oldid=118925 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Examples */ 09:33:21 [[Ars]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139858&oldid=107076 * Ractangle * (+24) /* See Also */ 09:44:27 [[Fixed Repeating Output]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139859&oldid=138786 * Ractangle * (-2) /* How dare you fuck the brain */ 09:45:07 [[A+B Problem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139860&oldid=139408 * Ractangle * (-4) /* How dare you fuck the brain */ 09:45:50 [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (H-M)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139861&oldid=138763 * Ractangle * (-24) /* How dare you fuck the brain */ 09:47:15 [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139862&oldid=139730 * Ractangle * (+28) /* How dare you fuck the brain */ 09:55:10 [[ComThon]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139863 * Ractangle * (+90) Created page with "{{stub}} '''ComThon''' is an esolang that compiles to python created by [[User:Ractangle]]" 10:42:55 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:03:53 [[Blues++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139864&oldid=139770 * Faustify * (+13) Stacatto correction 11:05:33 -!- amby has joined. 11:34:50 [[Braindrunk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139865&oldid=125376 * None1 * (+1394) /* Experiments */ 11:36:27 [[Talk:Braindrunk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139866&oldid=121863 * None1 * (+290) /* 200x boost! */ 11:36:41 [[Talk:Braindrunk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139867&oldid=139866 * None1 * (+232) /* Never gonna give you up */ 11:36:54 [[Talk:Braindrunk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139868&oldid=139867 * None1 * (+1) 11:39:39 -!- amby has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:39:56 -!- X-Scale has joined. 11:40:56 [[File talk:Something that managed to create this language.jpg]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139869 * None1 * (+272) Created page with "I don't think this is public domain. --~~~~" 11:50:12 [[Pi Calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139870&oldid=94065 * Ractangle * (+24) /* References */ 12:12:10 -!- wWwwW has joined. 12:13:30 [[User:NameGoesThere]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139871&oldid=119892 * NameGoesThere * (-40) 12:25:47 [[User:Gilbert189]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139872&oldid=135954 * Gilbert189 * (+85) 12:26:57 [[User talk:Gilbert189]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139873&oldid=137307 * Yayimhere * (+120) 12:31:57 [[User talk:Gilbert189]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139874&oldid=139873 * Gilbert189 * (+150) 12:32:59 [[User talk:Gilbert189]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139875&oldid=139874 * Yayimhere * (+171) 12:45:57 -!- mtm has joined. 12:48:55 [[Brachylog]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139876&oldid=66473 * Ractangle * (+23) /* External resources */ 12:52:39 [[Classical CT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139877&oldid=71211 * Ractangle * (+24) /* String extensions */ 12:55:45 [[EsoML]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139878&oldid=135946 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Interpreter */ 12:56:59 [[ESON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139879&oldid=69913 * Ractangle * (+24) /* See also */ 12:58:45 [[Cheat (Gilbert189)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139880&oldid=132584 * Yayimhere * (-49) replace with {{Distinguish/Confusion}} template 13:16:05 [[User:Pro465]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139881&oldid=134418 * Pro465 * (+0) 13:46:05 [[Basic]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139882 * MihaiEso * (+2351) Created page with "'''Basic''' is a pseudonatural esolang by Mihai Popa. It transpiles to [[BASIC]]! All commands must start with "This program", like "This program prints". Some words are exceptions. == Commands and words == {| class="wikitable" |+ Basic command list |- ! Basic !! BASI 13:46:57 [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139883&oldid=139346 * MihaiEso * (+46) /* List of my esolangs */ 13:47:32 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139884&oldid=139694 * MihaiEso * (+12) /* B */ 13:49:58 [[Bfcompress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139885&oldid=139857 * MihaiEso * (-1) 13:50:27 [[Translated Befunge/Horribly translated page]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=139886 * None1 * (+789) Created page with ":''This is page is horribly translated from [[Translated Befunge]]'' Be von is a session created by no user. Worst dubai and Microsoft translation (but you can choose worst!) There is a big difference between the treatment of refugees an 13:51:29 [[Translated Befunge/Horribly translated page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139887&oldid=139886 * None1 * (+7) 13:51:34 [[MESON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139888&oldid=69914 * Ractangle * (+25) /* Commands */ 13:59:55 [[Gulp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139889&oldid=65376 * Ractangle * (+23) /* External Resources */ 14:01:08 -!- amby has joined. 14:03:44 [[Braindrunk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139890&oldid=139865 * None1 * (+41943) 14:03:48 [[Batch No For]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139891&oldid=100518 * Ractangle * (+23) 14:03:58 [[Braindrunk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139892&oldid=139890 * None1 * (+1) /* FizzBuzz]= */ 14:03:59 [[Translated Befunge/Horribly translated page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139893&oldid=139887 * MihaiEso * (-3) Grammar. 14:05:58 [[Translated Befunge/Horribly translated page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139894&oldid=139893 * None1 * (+0) 14:15:34 [[Savage Operator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139895&oldid=139510 * Yayimhere * (+87) /* Turing-completeness */ 14:38:16 -!- Guest23 has joined. 14:38:59 -!- Guest23 has quit (Client Quit). 14:52:31 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:13:39 [[Mov]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139896&oldid=91452 * Ractangle * (+23) 15:31:07 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:43:00 [[Swearjure]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139897&oldid=97037 * Ractangle * (+23) /* External Links */ 15:44:07 [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139898&oldid=72564 * Ractangle * (+22) /* Example Implementation */ 15:46:28 [[Adar]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139899&oldid=63397 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Adar-= */ 16:08:25 [[TrybblePusher]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139900&oldid=40610 * Ractangle * (+23) 16:16:42 -!- tromp has joined. 16:24:15 -!- craigo has joined. 16:24:47 -!- craigo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:25:45 -!- craigo has joined. 16:37:56 -!- wWwwW has quit (Quit: Client closed). 16:52:00 -!- X-Scale has joined. 17:02:32 -!- lisbeths has joined. 17:08:34 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:14:26 -!- tromp has joined. 17:19:39 [[Banana Scheme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139901&oldid=88224 * Ractangle * (+24) /* External resources */ 17:20:22 [[Binary Forthleq Calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139902&oldid=128463 * Ractangle * (+23) 17:34:43 -!- wWwwW has joined. 18:03:09 -!- wWwwW has quit (Quit: Client closed). 18:06:53 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:22:29 -!- visilii has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:29:43 [[Talk:Fish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139903&oldid=34168 * Value1 * (+176) Question 18:32:17 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:51:36 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:51:49 -!- chiselfu1e has joined. 19:45:19 " I have also had dreams of writing my own OS," => is that still the mobile phone one, or does this one target other computers too? 19:49:04 `? category 19:49:06 `? monoid 19:49:08 A category is an enriched category where the enriching category is the category of classes. 19:49:09 `? monoidoid 19:49:09 A monoid is the easy version of a category. 19:49:12 monoidoid? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:03:37 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * WikiRasp * New user account 20:10:18 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139904&oldid=139772 * WikiRasp * (+277) /* Introductions */ 20:18:27 [[Prolix 1.1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139905&oldid=121493 * Ractangle * (+9) 20:23:47 [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139906&oldid=139862 * WikiRasp * (+446) Added truth-machine implementation for C#. Very rudimentary I know. 20:26:05 [[Unless]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139907&oldid=56439 * Ractangle * (+23) 20:28:52 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[?++]] to [[User:Ractangle/?++]] 20:29:31 [[User:Ractangle/?++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139910&oldid=139908 * Ractangle * (-69) Ill try to come up with a concept for this language 20:34:34 [[Brianfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139911&oldid=116266 * Ractangle * (+36) 20:35:04 [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139912&oldid=139564 * Ractangle * (+10) 20:35:23 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Uwusny * New user account 20:36:08 [[CJam]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139913&oldid=75824 * Ractangle * (+24) /* External resources */ 20:40:25 [[BASIC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139914&oldid=128710 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+32) Distinguish confusion 20:43:16 [[Swearjure]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139915&oldid=139897 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+80) Categories 20:44:49 [[EmojiGolf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139916&oldid=129834 * Ractangle * (+23) 20:46:35 [[FlogScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139917&oldid=127707 * Ractangle * (+23) /* External resources */ 20:46:43 [[ComThon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139918&oldid=139863 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+42) Categories 20:49:50 [[Special:Log/move]] move * PythonshellDebugwindow * moved [[Textual subleq]] to [[Textual SUBLEQ]]: Fix capitalisation 20:53:48 [[Haifuckqueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139921&oldid=88058 * Ractangle * (+23) /* External Resources */ 20:55:46 [[Self]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139922&oldid=139607 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+2) List 20:57:29 [[Self 2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139923&oldid=139610 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+228) See also, categories 20:58:02 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:58:27 b_jonas: I don't remember having planned a mobile phone OS, specifically 20:58:38 so you might be thinking of something else 20:58:57 [[Try]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139924&oldid=138292 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+28) Stub, formatting, category 20:59:15 that said, I think current mobile phone OSes are better-designed from a security point of view than current desktop OSes, although they nonetheless still have a lot of issues 20:59:24 (by OS here I am including userland, not just the kernel) 21:00:29 [[Self but with loops]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139925&oldid=139611 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+202) See also, categories 21:01:37 [[Zahlen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139926&oldid=81061 * Ractangle * (+23) /* See also */ 21:01:52 [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[File:Something that managed to create this language.jpg]]": Copyright violation: not created by the uploader, and the source is likely to be copyrighted 21:03:25 [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[File:Logo Turmin.png]]": Duplicated file: lower-resolution copy of [[File:Turmin Logo.png]] 21:17:13 ais523 the CC0 enforcer 21:18:48 you don't remember having planned a mobile phone OS? I'll have to search the old channel logs for that then 21:19:20 "they nonetheless still have a lot of issues" => http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2024-08-31.2802.smartphones-vs-pc.html agrees 21:23:55 yeah, apparently you said that you weren't planning to make one https://logs.esolangs.org/freenode-esoteric/2018-09.html#lfLb 21:36:20 -!- tromp has joined. 22:06:47 -!- __monty__ has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:25:51 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:41:42 The document is French, so I will not make a criticism of it, but about mobile phone OS, I did not have an intention to do it; my ideas are intended for a desktop or laptop computer, although they could be used for smartphones etc also 22:42:54 I think there are problems with security with mobile phones as well as with desktop, as well as other stuff, but that a better design would consider multiple issues and would be able to improve multiple issues. 22:44:27 In addition to security, another issue is better user control and user programmability. And then, there is also such things as accessibility, internationalization, etc. 22:45:43 Also hardware design; although implementations could be made to use with existing hardware, there are some better ways to do some of it, including the devices such as keyboard, etc. 22:46:22 Like Apple keyboard, I would have a separate Return and Enter key, and a separate Command and Control key. 23:46:34 [[Talk:My-new-esolang.txt]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139927&oldid=135307 * Tommyaweosme * (+251) 23:48:07 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Tommyaweosme * moved [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] to [[User talk:Tommyaweosme/archives/september 1 to 19]]: archive #idk 23:48:24 [[User talk:Tommyaweosme/archives]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139930&oldid=137646 * Tommyaweosme * (+24) 23:48:51 [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=139931&oldid=139929 * Tommyaweosme * (-41) Removed redirect to [[User talk:Tommyaweosme/archives/september 1 to 19]]