by accident
> 1726882449 316735 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme/archives14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140045&oldid=139961 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+33) 10
> 1726882491 504316 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:My-new-esolang.txt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140046&oldid=139952 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+222) 10
> 1726882778 228668 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Brainfuckconsole7414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140047&oldid=139967 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+203) 10
> 1726884019 490397 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ABPL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140048&oldid=140041 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+69) 10Categories
> 1726884900 167590 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140049&oldid=140044 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+24) 10
> 1726887802 667719 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140050&oldid=127741 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+14) 10
> 1726887812 471457 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140051&oldid=140050 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+0) 10/* Examples */
< 1726889211 398224 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.146.152 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
< 1726889745 500082 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1726889834 480164 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
> 1726890141 838203 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Brainfuckconsole7414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140052&oldid=140047 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+4078) 10
> 1726893921 500826 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/tommyaweosme english14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140053&oldid=139988 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+156) 10
< 1726894096 319889 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1726894140 319906 :Guest89!~Guest89@2400:4050:9740:1100:30f7:60fd:8047:3f5f JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest89
< 1726894157 9765 :Guest89!~Guest89@2400:4050:9740:1100:30f7:60fd:8047:3f5f QUIT :Client Quit
> 1726894249 202907 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140054&oldid=139990 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+19) 10
> 1726894324 708504 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140055 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+2072) 10Created page with "-- is an Esolang designed by PSTF. It is ACTUALLY derived from [[deadfish]].  == Commands == 
 This Esolang|Deadfish|Meaning           |i       |Increase           |d       |Decrease           |s       |Square           |o       |Output as Integer 
 == Examples 
< 1726894411 881037 :user3456!user3456@user/user3456 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
> 1726894610 575133 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Protogen/Better python interpreter14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140056 5* 03DifferentDance8 5* (+686) 10Created page with "[[User:DifferentDance8]] created a significantly improved version of the official [[Protogen]] interpreter called "Pygen". It differs from the official Protogen interpreter in that it allows users to indirectly use the examples folder b
> 1726894633 317752 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BubbleLang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140057&oldid=139969 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+403) 10
> 1726894662 909512 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Protogen14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140058&oldid=101399 5* 03DifferentDance8 5* (+92) 10
> 1726894704 622539 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Protogen/Better python interpreter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140059&oldid=140056 5* 03DifferentDance8 5* (+41) 10
> 1726894855 610179 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140060&oldid=140027 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+789) 10/* My talking page */ new section
< 1726895179 301202 :user3456!user3456@user/user3456 JOIN #esolangs user3456 :user3456
> 1726895197 774156 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PIX14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140061&oldid=140020 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+196) 10
< 1726895473 918194 :user3456!user3456@user/user3456 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
> 1726895517 419230 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140062&oldid=139977 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+728) 10/* Would you like to contribute to BubbleLang? */ new section
> 1726895585 648606 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140063&oldid=139976 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+19) 10
> 1726895800 8647 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:DifferentDance814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140064&oldid=139855 5* 03DifferentDance8 5* (+156) 10
> 1726896524 539542 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:DifferentDance814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140065&oldid=140064 5* 03DifferentDance8 5* (+166) 10
< 1726896816 680228 :user3456!user3456@user/user3456 JOIN #esolangs user3456 :user3456
> 1726897412 362229 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07E q u a t i o n14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140066 5* 03DifferentDance8 5* (+5031) 10Created page with "'''E q u a t i o n''' (formerly titled '''ComplexEquations''') is an esoteric programming language where every aspect must be represented through an equation. The language is designed to handle simple arithmetic operations, emphasizing the use of equatio
> 1726897519 904966 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Shorten your Brainfuck code14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140067&oldid=107953 5* 03DifferentDance8 5* (+13) 10/* Use the visualizer */
> 1726897857 298848 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!!!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140068&oldid=127324 5* 03DifferentDance8 5* (+29) 10This moves turns !! from a orphaned page to a dead-end page, which is still bad but better than an orphaned page
> 1726897898 348856 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[073 bytes :v)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140069&oldid=105866 5* 03DifferentDance8 5* (+32) 10another orphan turned dead-end
> 1726898382 238504 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Protogen/Better python interpreter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140070&oldid=140059 5* 03DifferentDance8 5* (+30) 10
< 1726899605 320004 :Raoof!~Raoof@151.244.223.5 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Raoof
> 1726899798 147936 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[076 bytes of useless element14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140071 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+321) 10Created page with "'''6 bytes of useless element''' is a esolang by [[User:Yayimhere]] inspired by [[3 bytes :v)]] == how it works == take the program delete the first char and output the program and then a f == examples == [[Quine]]:  ff [[hello, world!]]
< 1726900031 773446 :Raoof!~Raoof@151.244.223.5 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1726900419 797453 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname4798/tommyaweosme english14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140072 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+1425) 10Created page with "{{WIP}} tommyaweosme english is a page created by mihai popa and tommyaweosme. here is a table with all differences between normal english and tommyaweosme one's  == Key Contributors == # Mihai Popa&Tommyaweosme: Created this topic #
> 1726900431 389670 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname4798/tommyaweosme english14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140073&oldid=140072 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+180) 10
> 1726900524 267717 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname4798/tommyaweosme english14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140074&oldid=140073 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+0) 10
> 1726900663 962121 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme/archives14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140075&oldid=140045 5* 03Unname4798 5* (-26) 10
< 1726900905 676613 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1726904473 441702 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the underlaod two command thing *kinda* cheats since it uses : and () but just not directly
< 1726904482 836678 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but they are still intepreted by ^
< 1726904483 337022 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :^
> 1726905658 496095 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!!SuperPrime14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140076&oldid=109170 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+49) 10un-dead end and make implementations more clear
> 1726905666 789171 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07(PTM)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140077&oldid=75821 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+8) 10un-dead end
> 1726905795 730948 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tarflex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140078&oldid=80134 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+9) 10/* Quine */ is a cheating one
> 1726905841 204287 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!!14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140079&oldid=128517 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+18) 10un-dead end
> 1726906150 571876 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140080 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+108) 10Created page with "WHAT IS IT??? [:~~~~:]"
> 1726906158 482680 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[073 bits, unshackled14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140081&oldid=132849 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+78) 10un-dead end
> 1726907164 377181 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Spaced14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140082 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+548) 10Got reminded of the existence of this
> 1726907174 406448 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Spaced14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140083&oldid=140082 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (-1) 10
> 1726907201 747842 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ndef14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140084&oldid=79711 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+0) 10User: part of link inside link
> 1726907429 6026 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TDML14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140085 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+2738) 10Created page with "'''TDML''' ('''T'''wo '''D'''imensional '''M'''inimalistic '''L'''anguage) is an [[Turning tarpit]] by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] inspired by [[2L]] and [[1L]]. It also is a languge where many commands can function differently in various implementations  ==Specificat
> 1726907529 201291 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Spacebar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140086&oldid=82942 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+98) 10
> 1726907546 497774 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Spaced14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140087&oldid=140083 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+30) 10
> 1726907744 126103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07314]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140088&oldid=83118 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+10) 10un-dead end
< 1726907787 820428 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1726907844 766653 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140089&oldid=140088 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-29) 10deleted TC category becuase maybe with this limitation its not TC
> 1726907887 727293 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TDML14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140090&oldid=140085 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+310) 10
> 1726908237 263451 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:ChuckEsoteric0814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140091&oldid=138268 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+11) 10/* 2024 */
< 1726908933 353498 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown
< 1726909022 100922 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1726909081 671158 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i have something to aks., cant any lambda expression be desrcibed with nested empty lambdas and identity functions?
< 1726909088 174566 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait no
< 1726909433 166853 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1726909498 898138 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.146.152 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1726909938 528170 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :any duplicating term like \x. x x cannot be described like that
< 1726909966 921168 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes it could
< 1726909974 999395 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you could change names
< 1726909980 385019 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the identity function
< 1726909983 940532 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :could gave a input
< 1726909987 351372 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then you could make it
< 1726910031 730251 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :\x. ((\x. x) x) ((\x. x) x)
< 1726910076 177569 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's clearly more than empty lmabdas (const) and identities
< 1726910090 266884 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes.
< 1726910091 267044 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ik
< 1726910096 578741 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i said
< 1726910098 943352 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you allowed
< 1726910102 37219 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idk
< 1726910110 986728 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait no
< 1726910124 299903 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :combinator base K, I is very incomplete
< 1726910129 41104 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
< 1726910130 643612 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :bye
< 1726910131 667620 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry
< 1726910133 944511 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :need to leave
< 1726910135 666352 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :can only make projection functions
> 1726911405 121656 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Number2D14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140092&oldid=140042 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+68) 10Rectified two orthographic mistakes and enhanced the 6 command's description anent its lucidity.
> 1726911742 264017 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140093&oldid=137348 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+526) 10
> 1726912540 604057 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140094&oldid=140089 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+588) 10
< 1726914043 644043 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1726915578 445289 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@83.223.233.25 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
> 1726915952 814790 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140095&oldid=140060 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+900) 10/* I seem to think you're a decent admin */ new section
< 1726916943 336293 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@83.223.233.25 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1726916978 65587 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1726918332 73964 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname
> 1726919192 914369 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/PSTF Again614]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140096 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+620) 10Created page with "ORK: [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again1|]]  1. Drag out the program that has been completely destroyed 
 No, not at all. No, not at all. No, not at all. This is a Raphael. This is a Raphael. Ted Tyrant If, however, no conversion and the deportatio
> 1726919248 691308 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140097&oldid=140032 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+45) 10
> 1726919611 259093 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140098&oldid=140034 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+25) 10
> 1726919798 492401 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BubbleLang/Examples14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140099&oldid=139548 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+470) 10
> 1726920096 877405 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140100&oldid=139951 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+325) 10
< 1726920223 878636 :mtm!~textual@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1726920339 792613 :mtm!~textual@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN #esolangs mtm :Textual User
> 1726922317 216803 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme/archives14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140101&oldid=140075 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+26) 10lol u got plans to spam my talk page on october 1?
> 1726922363 276655 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TDML14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140102&oldid=140090 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (-77) 10/* Computational class */
> 1726922417 468577 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[073 bits, unshackled14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140103&oldid=140081 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+9) 10i dont see the point since only userpages link here but ok i guess you can do this for all those people playing esolanglinks (not wikilinks thats made by the evilest people on earht)
> 1726922480 877960 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[073 Bits, 3 Bytes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140104&oldid=131242 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+25) 10just making an esolanglink loop
> 1726922763 382460 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07~14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140105 5* 03Europe2048 5* (+3171) 10Created page with "{{Stub}} {{WIP}} '''~''' is an esolang by [[User:Europe2048]] with uncountable data types.  (note: this will probably become a golfing language)  == SBCS ==  - 0123456789abcdef  0   1   2  !"#$%&'()*+,-./  3 0123456789:;<=>?  4 @ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO  5 PQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_  6 `abcd
> 1726922867 188218 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140106&oldid=138261 5* 03Europe2048 5* (+27) 10/* Partially Silly Ideas */
> 1726922929 314874 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140107&oldid=140098 5* 03Europe2048 5* (+13) 10
> 1726923037 115780 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140108&oldid=140107 5* 03Europe2048 5* (-13) 10oops, forgot to read the header
> 1726923621 957046 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FROSTWIRE-66614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140109&oldid=139441 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+1) 10/* combinators */
> 1726923701 339334 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FROSTWIRE-66614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140110&oldid=140109 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+0) 10/* combinators */
> 1726924092 316289 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140111 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+305) 10Created page with "'''Functioning Mods''' is a esolang created by [[User:Yayimhere]]. its a jumble of other esolangs put together for some reason == commands ==  ''F''10 notated as (''F'' w) from [[Jot]]   and  from [[FROSTWIRE-666]]  ` and c from [[Unlambda]]  a from [[Savage O
< 1726924305 945065 :sknebel!~quassel@v22016013254630973.happysrv.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
> 1726924520 155742 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[072 Bits, 1 Byte14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140112&oldid=139578 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+22) 10un-orphan
< 1726925525 943721 :sknebel!~quassel@v22016013254630973.happysrv.de JOIN #esolangs sknebel :sknebel
> 1726925526 255459 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140113&oldid=139853 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+23) 10/* esolangs */
< 1726925664 482636 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Feedback?: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Functioning_Mods
> 1726925700 681787 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140114&oldid=140111 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+6) 10
> 1726926864 607795 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140115&oldid=140114 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+396) 10/* commands */
> 1726926868 962522 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Postrado14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140116&oldid=135413 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+5) 10/* Deadfish implementation */
> 1726926880 472216 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Postrado14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140117&oldid=140116 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-5) 10/* Deadfish implementation */
> 1726926947 213672 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Postrado14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140118&oldid=140117 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+5) 10/* Deadfish implementation */
< 1726927513 439900 :fria!uid151648@id-151648.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs fria :fria
> 1726927833 980927 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140119&oldid=140115 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+14) 10/* commands */
> 1726927936 374783 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PrySigneToFry/My Decimal Number14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140120&oldid=138259 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+673) 10
> 1726928038 256143 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140121&oldid=140119 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+16) 10
> 1726928249 979385 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Binary-encoded Minsky machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140122&oldid=121520 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+17) 10/* Encoding */
> 1726928499 139306 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:By+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140123&oldid=138820 5* 03Catto.4 5* (+448) 10
< 1726929152 401620 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1726929839 533212 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/PSTF Again614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140124&oldid=140096 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+46) 10
> 1726930204 276637 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/Mihai Again214]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140125 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+935) 10Created page with "I made [[Translated ORK/PSTF Again6|this]] WTF? ~~~~  1. Put the already low quality program 
 no good [69] Disable log _out Disable logout Disable saving to d_disk Disable Exiting no [69] OK 
 2. Translate it worse! 
 ModernMT: English 
> 1726930221 902977 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140126&oldid=140097 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+47) 10/* Horribly translated variants */
> 1726930229 83474 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140127&oldid=140126 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+0) 10/* Horribly translated variants */
> 1726930239 198132 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140128&oldid=140121 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+36) 10
> 1726930332 409749 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140129&oldid=140128 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-47) 10/* commands */
> 1726930338 284852 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Disan Count14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140130&oldid=134910 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+492) 10/* Disan Count, but prime */ new section
> 1726930754 355744 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFInfinity14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140131&oldid=139954 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+153) 10
> 1726931213 788253 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140132&oldid=135769 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+80) 10
> 1726931250 205193 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07~~14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140133&oldid=138910 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+48) 10/* ~~ hexadecimal format */
> 1726932138 653540 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140134 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+868) 10Created page with "(XQDFW, or Xithedephou) is designed by PSTF to use another type of picture to show [[]] script.  == Format == Use white square with  to represent print function.  Use a serie of circle to represent memory slot.  Use white square with  to represent input function.  Use  to
> 1726932243 660758 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140135&oldid=140108 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+17) 10
> 1726932402 840334 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bbtos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140136&oldid=131511 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+165) 10
< 1726932655 376867 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se JOIN #esolangs ski :Stefan Ljungstrand
< 1726932806 898088 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hello ski. i like ur username
> 1726932943 300938 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07lang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140137&oldid=137564 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (-12) 10
< 1726932978 318973 :Raoof!~Raoof@ip251.ip-167-114-76.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Raoof
< 1726932999 881980 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: I'm not reading five other pages to understand how a language works if it's supposedly just a combinator basis. Please consider using a standard notation; I don't care which one.
< 1726933012 917238 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :k
< 1726933018 186220 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i should yea
< 1726933019 798338 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but then
< 1726933026 349866 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the concept
< 1726933029 885267 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :will be destroyed
< 1726933038 803188 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I also still don't understand your goals. But I can guess that you're learning and playing rather than heading towards a specific destination.
< 1726933054 74853 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1726933059 679074 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :If your concept isn't isomorphism-invariant, then it's probably ill-founded.
< 1726933061 363167 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was based on like
< 1726933066 869214 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how i was confused on lazy k
< 1726933071 135935 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i though it could use
< 1726933077 463000 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :SKI and Unlambda ect.
< 1726933079 904283 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :al together
< 1726933177 685733 :Raoof!~Raoof@ip251.ip-167-114-76.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :hello all I'm back and thank you for your previous responses. I wonder if anybody interested in finding a universal Diophantine equation with one unknown since if we have a UDE1: y=f(x) <-> ∃y[U(f,x,y)=0] then all TC languages have a total and TC subset
< 1726933220 649908 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hlw does Nope have a TC subset???
< 1726933221 632886 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :allo, wWwwW
< 1726933232 225615 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :allo:]
< 1726933388 588004 :Raoof!~Raoof@ip251.ip-167-114-76.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW :)
< 1726933399 331382 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hehehe
< 1726933528 472427 :Raoof!~Raoof@ip251.ip-167-114-76.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo what do you think ? is there a UDE1 ?
< 1726933536 233664 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: The top of this particular power ceiling is the untyped lambda calculus. There's nothing above that. SKI isn't above that. Unlambda isn't above it either. They're all isomorphic: it's possible to transform one into the other without losing or gaining any functionality.
< 1726933577 740675 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what message are you answering
< 1726933613 501254 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Raoof: Probably. But since a TC language without a total subset would have to be *very* strange and I can't imagine it offhand, I'm not sure what we would be showing.
< 1726933643 818211 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: I'm replying to the idea that "SKI and Unlambda together" is a distinct thing from either SKI or Unlambda.
< 1726933666 860854 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes but they can still be represnted in lambda calculus
< 1726933668 747879 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so they are
< 1726933673 115772 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"compatible"
< 1726933710 281936 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, okay, I think I see the problem. The identity function is not I, nor is it (\x. x). Those are *terms* in SKI and ULC respectively which *denote* the identity function.
< 1726933734 79755 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :For every term in SKI which denotes a function, there is a ULC term which denotes it too, and vice versa. This is what I mean by isomorphism or equivalence.
< 1726933751 384659 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :k
< 1726933758 524943 :Raoof!~Raoof@ip251.ip-167-114-76.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo it also means there is a total and TC language, so we don't need to worry about the halting problem
< 1726933787 449088 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(*The* identity function is an end in the term category. It usually doesn't show up as a distinct term. Languages like Cammy which have explicit ends are unusual in this way.)
< 1726933814 871285 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Raoof: Oh, then it's obviously bogus, as TC languages must be able to host non-total programs via emulation.
< 1726933816 552460 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :term?
< 1726933836 804117 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in this context a term is
< 1726933852 506355 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Term" is a shorter word than "expression" which doesn't overlap with the verb "to express", that's all. You'll see both words show up in logic.
< 1726933864 84030 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I, SKK, SII, etc. are terms of SKI.
< 1726933869 532704 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh kk
< 1726933875 552331 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :makes sense
< 1726934161 187011 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it don work?
< 1726934163 598377 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or
< 1726934193 959754 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the was a problem
< 1726934200 661061 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it wont work. right?
< 1726934322 44624 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know how to restate what I said initially: you combined five different languages without defining them in a single common notation. If you handed me a program in Functioning Mods, I wouldn't know what function it denotes.
< 1726934342 773954 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh kk
< 1726934350 277910 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then i will define them all below the commands
< 1726934357 309842 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in lambda calculus
< 1726934404 500034 :Raoof!~Raoof@ip251.ip-167-114-76.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo why do you want to emulate a non-total program ?
< 1726934435 592195 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Raoof: Personally? I'm interested in the hardest problems in mathematics. But in general, a TC system ought to be able to host universal emulators of other TC systems, and those don't necessarily halt.
< 1726934461 26441 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually what is ` in lambda calculus
< 1726934480 333800 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and what is c
< 1726934483 243194 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Parentheses, usually.
< 1726934491 750395 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
< 1726934497 807590 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :lambda calculus has application
< 1726934506 691309 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so its applicaiton?
< 1726934524 919980 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :To get a working c, you must transform your program to continuation-passing style (CPS). "The continuation" is merely another function when expressed this way.
< 1726934534 381070 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :iirc Unlambda correctly, yes
< 1726934538 498155 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :shit
< 1726934540 930968 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry
< 1726934566 652087 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :`c' is `call-with-current-continuation', no ?
< 1726934568 832484 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :c'? No such file or directory
< 1726934589 925063 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION glares at HackEso

< 1726934605 155141 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, c is call/cc.
< 1726934621 448943 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then ill delete it
< 1726934655 663744 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The real question is d. Unlambda uses d for ordering, like Haskell's seq. It's very important when *executing* programs on a computer, but largely irrelevant to whether we can *express* a function with a program.
< 1726934672 952823 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :`delay' ?
< 1726934674 212219 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :delay'? No such file or directory
< 1726934684 576437 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so x`y applies x to y?
< 1726934694 411708 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Might have been "delay", maybe "deferred" which is an uncommon name for the promise monad.
< 1726934714 890939 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Isn't it `xy to apply x to y? I'm going from memory right now.
< 1726934728 149169 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :istr it's prefix, yes
< 1726934729 351447 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it would make *sense*
< 1726934732 616986 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1726934734 295705 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :YES
< 1726934748 951256 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :(or, polish notation, if you prefer)
< 1726934763 391701 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idc
< 1726934765 204535 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1726934789 195480 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :When you start to write parsers, you'll care.
< 1726934804 825979 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hehehe
< 1726934822 741057 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idc about if you call it polish or prefix
< 1726934849 962439 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION polishes pegleg

< 1726934939 884591 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's called "Polish" because otherwise most folks would have to look up how to spell Łukasiewicz like I just did.
< 1726934980 499216 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :("woo-KAH-seh-vitch", IIUC)
< 1726934991 520570 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hehehehe
> 1726935353 455710 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Savage Operator14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140138&oldid=139895 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-5) 10/* operators */
> 1726935366 110545 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Savage Operator14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140139&oldid=140138 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-48) 10/* operators */
< 1726935664 786617 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1726935713 822180 :Raoof!~Raoof@ip251.ip-167-114-76.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo maybe I shouldn't have used TC, I meant that if we have a UDE1 then there is a language that can compute all total computable functions and by enforcing a convention we can eliminate the halting problem in all TC languages and also have a decision algorithm for Hilbert's 10th problem, I know it's proven undecidable but if there is UDE1 then
< 1726935714 321962 :Raoof!~Raoof@ip251.ip-167-114-76.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :that contradict their theorem. maybe you see that as a proof that there is no UDE1 ?
> 1726935866 783744 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140140&oldid=140129 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+403) 10/* commands */
< 1726935869 681216 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :DONE
> 1726936027 275313 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140141&oldid=140140 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+1) 10/* commands */
< 1726936050 539884 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :HELL YEA
< 1726936057 951979 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it works now right korvo
> 1726936113 573690 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140142&oldid=140141 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-28) 10/* commands */
> 1726936380 966653 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140143&oldid=140142 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+7) 10/* commands */
> 1726936434 832336 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140144&oldid=140143 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+3) 10
> 1726936451 249675 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140145&oldid=140144 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+2) 10/* commands */
> 1726936524 146764 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140146&oldid=140145 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+0) 10/* commands */
< 1726936686 797872 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1726936829 786555 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Nice.
< 1726936844 786705 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thx!
< 1726936849 941199 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Raoof: Yeah, if it's that tight, then I'd assume UDE1 doesn't exist.
< 1726936889 271469 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Basically anything that pushes against Lawvere's fixed-point theorem, which has Turing's Halting as a special case, is likely bogus.
< 1726936954 182971 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've spent far too many words on this. https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/a/113701/48431 is a recent situation where I ripped apart a crank because they wouldn't shut up about Gödel.
< 1726936976 527978 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Raoof: I'm not saying you're a crank BTW. I'm just saying that there is a *lot* of evidence and proof here.
< 1726937013 18471 :fria!uid151648@id-151648.ilkley.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1726937115 780558 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :think its tc when you look at it?
> 1726937526 286533 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140147&oldid=140146 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+144) 10/* commands */
< 1726937579 874257 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's clearly TC because it has S and K.
< 1726937596 783385 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :?
< 1726937611 402539 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :theyre included for the
< 1726937612 402793 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :umm
< 1726937614 443312 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lambdas
< 1726937616 256007 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It has S and K, therefore it has SII(SII), therefore not every term has a normal form.
> 1726937645 999461 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140148&oldid=140147 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+26) 10/* commands */
< 1726937652 643674 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :made it clear
< 1726937660 270321 :Raoof!~Raoof@ip251.ip-167-114-76.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :thank you for responses. bye for now
< 1726937665 543515 :Raoof!~Raoof@ip251.ip-167-114-76.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1726937674 834603 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :bye!!
< 1726937738 769779 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: What's your current goal? To not be TC?
< 1726937746 599690 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no
< 1726937752 767206 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :just to try to
< 1726937758 929679 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :learn cross esolang stuff
< 1726937857 411000 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like
< 1726937866 895834 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how esolangs can interact with each other
< 1726937926 776266 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :They don't, usually. Let L and K be languages, and let S be some semantics. S is what we actually want to study; like, S is a collection of functions. L and K are merely syntax for denoting functions in S.
< 1726937947 742573 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1726937949 760157 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ik
< 1726937951 346367 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but
< 1726937952 954719 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :some do
< 1726937961 252842 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :since they are defined in lambda calculus
< 1726937994 616705 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Then what we usually care about is *compiling* L to K or vice versa. Let L -> S be an interpretation of L in S; it's a way of assigning a function to each term of L. Then we want something L -> K, sending terms of L to terms of K, such that we induce another interpretation K -> S.
< 1726938017 531716 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1726938031 671636 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, you're working with the situation where L is SKI, K is ULC, and S is some sort of computable functions.
< 1726938044 618620 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1726938048 270985 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well
< 1726938050 891317 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we also have
< 1726938059 146504 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :What I'm trying to point out is that a transformation from one language to another doesn't imply that the languages somehow work together or fit together.
< 1726938068 283883 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :true
< 1726938078 843309 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but when they are made and evaluated with the exact same system
< 1726938080 336102 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it works
< 1726938084 848518 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but yea
< 1726938086 675154 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not always
> 1726938133 713073 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140149&oldid=140148 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+33) 10/* commands */
< 1726938154 324463 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :No, not even then. Let S be the standard amd64 semantics for hardware. There are several languages which compile to it in incompatible ways, say C, Python, Haskell, Prolog, and Scheme.
< 1726938173 152671 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1726938179 274841 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but even the formatting is the same
< 1726938181 296691 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :even
< 1726938196 894300 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :they have been written in the same system
< 1726938204 11903 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Or, more pedantically, let K be amd64 assembly language and let S be the hardware behavior. Then these languages build different setups in K; some of them have heaps, some have GCs, some have stacks, some have continuations.
< 1726938240 215239 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1726938243 402131 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i understand
> 1726938268 128090 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TheCanon214]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140150&oldid=138067 5* 03TheCanon2 5* (+40) 10Added Slide rule completeness
< 1726938743 343889 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, given all that, it's quite nice that ULC and SKI are isomorphic. It means that, often, we *don't care* whether a basis is fancy; we only care whether it has S and K, or Iota, or Jot, or Meredith's axiom, or BCKW, or etc.
< 1726938764 27467 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
> 1726939323 85963 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Slide-rule completeness14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140151 5* 03TheCanon2 5* (+466) 10Created page with "A machine is '''slide rule-complete''' if said machine can perform any operation that can be simulated by a slide rule of arbitrary length with arbitrary markings. ==Slide rule machine== A slide rule machine is an automaton that operates by moving a sli
< 1726939946 215390 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1726940346 336931 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
> 1726940387 373475 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Cree sharp14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140152 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+18) 10Redirected page to [[CREE]]
> 1726940417 980852 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Cree sharp14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140153&oldid=140152 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+0) 10Changed redirect target from [[CREE]] to [[Cree]]
> 1726940817 459123 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140154&oldid=140149 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+0) 10
> 1726940855 220112 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140155&oldid=140154 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+29) 10
> 1726940875 940117 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140156&oldid=140155 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+14) 10/* commands */
< 1726941333 789519 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1726941563 727407 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so...ummmmm...wat u guys think?: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Turtle_just_want_to_dig
> 1726941733 177620 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ACL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140157&oldid=65317 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+23) 10/* Collatz sequence */
> 1726942981 281352 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07APL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140158&oldid=81413 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-4) 10its not the J they are thinking about. its not my J
> 1726943048 575711 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Timeline of golfing languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140159&oldid=121092 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-3) 10/* 2015 */ also not their J its my J
> 1726943095 314664 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gs214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140160&oldid=69707 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-4) 10still not that J
< 1726943522 176659 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Have you considered that perhaps *your* language should be moved? J is plenty esoteric and I would expect the page [[J]] to have a stub for it, not for yours.
< 1726943538 487900 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :true
< 1726943546 863207 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not rn atleast
< 1726943550 358624 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im to tired
< 1726943553 950234 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe jiust to like
< 1726943558 989424 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :J (Yayimhere)
< 1726943575 888570 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's not just you. [[E]] is another good example.
< 1726943597 519118 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1726943600 966760 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but like still
< 1726943604 606308 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, it was shitty of earlier proglang designers to use single-letter names. No, we aren't going to ignore earlier proglangs, especially when they are as influential as E or J.
< 1726943636 922522 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but then why not move it to "J (Yayimhere)"
< 1726943639 467738 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Admittedly this is my perspective, and I only make approximately one new language every five years.
< 1726943639 755897 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like usually
< 1726944006 400010 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: How does Turtle just want to dig halt?
< 1726944022 755856 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :going of bounds of the program
< 1726944025 638070 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :as mentioned
< 1726944083 863555 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Can they dig down forever?
< 1726944093 270261 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1726944096 17213 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with BUG
< 1726944097 989600 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuz bug
< 1726944101 833373 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :doesnt count
< 1726944107 196725 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it expands border
< 1726944108 783888 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thats how
< 1726944128 205875 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ñ
< 1726944128 704983 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :===
< 1726944129 204232 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :# #
< 1726944129 704509 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs : õ
< 1726944130 704698 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :works
< 1726944131 127818 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Okay. So halting has to be from the left and right bounds, not digging to a maximum depth?
< 1726944139 586952 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no
< 1726944145 162007 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the bug expands border
< 1726944154 625839 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in other words
< 1726944167 488880 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :going to rows or lines that no commands are on
< 1726944196 66780 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :collumn
> 1726944261 100229 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Turtle just want to dig14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140161&oldid=139758 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+36) 10/* how it works */
> 1726944382 371580 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Turtle just want to dig14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140162&oldid=140161 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+98) 10/* examples */
< 1726944630 238689 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: yeah, except for C, I usually use the more qualified names, like jsoftware, digitalmars D, Vttoth's W
< 1726944652 381324 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :C is special enough that I usually don't have to say K&R C or anything like that
< 1726945030 590823 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Yep, totally fair. Context matters for me, and editing [[APL]] or [[Timeline of golfing languages]] triggered my sense of relevance.
< 1726945048 848021 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry
< 1726945057 57353 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for doing it
< 1726945077 832613 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also, here's another opinion from Mr. Five Years: language names should be puns. And not just mild puns, but three-way puns which require knowledge of computing history and something else too.
< 1726945100 100276 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: No worries. You're not in trouble, although I do hope that you learn something about history of APL from this.
< 1726945110 95296 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh i do
< 1726945111 777539 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think
< 1726945116 152260 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, there are other disambiguations, like the APL-like J
< 1726945153 345337 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i was about to say something
< 1726945155 217201 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh yea
< 1726945162 482536 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: i cant do puns:]
< 1726945174 245430 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Like, [[Cammy]] is a pun on "CAM-E", a flavor of E using the Categorial Abstract Machine; it's technically named after *Camellia* the tea tree, though. (A "T-tree", a typed tree.)
< 1726945224 886912 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Even in your native language? They don't have to be English puns; a fun example is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qalb_(programming_language)
< 1726945259 775087 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh
< 1726945266 358027 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :danish puns are weird tho...
< 1726945269 506317 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like
< 1726945272 463192 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to be fair I am also bad at naming and have used very generic names for languages or other programs that I'm writing
< 1726945273 229081 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :they get rlly weird
< 1726945287 637428 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i usually do random on wikidate until i find a cool name
> 1726945295 867327 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Template:Wip14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140163&oldid=106057 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+155) 10
< 1726945310 27659 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thats how i got A Question of Protocol
> 1726945312 312395 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Befunge/Constants14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140164 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+555) 10incomplete wip
< 1726945314 630735 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and Bijection
< 1726945328 289613 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*wikidata
< 1726945359 495499 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok lemme try
< 1726945363 88080 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Consider C's successors. They're all puns: D uses the alphabet, C++ uses C itself, C♯ uses a musical alphabet, Obj-C is a pun on "objective", E is a reaction to both C and D, etc.
< 1726945379 438462 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ik about C# thing
< 1726945380 702851 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuz
< 1726945384 360573 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i like music lol
< 1726945391 651018 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :pun for Functioning Mods
< 1726945393 853622 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i will try
< 1726945407 573363 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :isn't E like a reaction to Erlang or something?
< 1726945427 225323 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Go, Dart, and Swift are all puns on going fast; Go kind of gave up trying, but Dart and Swift pun pub darts and birds respectively.
< 1726945517 685760 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :E is mostly a reaction to Oak winning the Java competition. Elm is another alternative to Oak, having almost nothing in common with E other than being isolated and confined for totally different reasons.
< 1726945536 682453 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :brugtiohell
< 1726945540 130144 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :frick
< 1726945546 124242 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :dis aint even a pun i feel like
< 1726945557 388549 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Like, the thesis which introduces E spends a lot of time explaining how Java can't safely load untrusted code, while E can do it easily.
< 1726945568 673242 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its a combinational of functionel, brug, and hell
< 1726945589 257784 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Nice!
< 1726945593 670883 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thx
< 1726945597 853274 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its a hell to use
< 1726945604 886848 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :brug is use in danish
< 1726945607 568646 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it uses functions
< 1726945632 235727 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Good pun, well done.
< 1726945641 183065 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thx:)!
> 1726945659 897532 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140165&oldid=140156 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-1360) 10Blanked the page
> 1726945696 275805 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brugtiohell14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140166 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+1394) 10Created page with "'''Brugtiohell''' is a esolang created by [[User:Yayimhere]]. its a jumble of other esolangs put together for some reason == commands == these are the commands of Brugtiohell:  ''x''10, notated as E''x'', and 1, from [[Jot]]    , and , from [[FROSTWIRE-666]]    ` 
< 1726945701 200935 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :moved it
< 1726945703 380195 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'll never beat dash's name for our language, "Monte". (I guess I should stub it?) Monte is Python-flavored E, it's a mountain of a language, and it's homophone with {manti}, Lojban for "ant".
> 1726945773 175805 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brugtiohell14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140167&oldid=140166 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+86) 10
< 1726945833 518641 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :BUT is also a joke ig
< 1726945835 948869 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :since its like
< 1726945843 905635 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :BUT I DONT WANNA USE IT!!!!
< 1726945972 950051 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm going to create a couple pages and a category, I guess. I'm also considering moving [[E]] to something like [[E (eeEee)]] given its low number of incoming links.
< 1726945982 375119 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1726945993 485622 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I could use [[E (joke)]] instead, but that's not nearly as funny of a URL.
< 1726946003 34998 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1726946020 498898 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the esolang community is the least mean one iver ever been in
< 1726946029 511092 :JAA!~JAA@user/meow/JAA PRIVMSG #esolangs :[[E (disambiguation page)]] ? :-)
< 1726946038 840585 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes plz
< 1726946041 527908 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs ::]
< 1726946046 15114 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs ::-]
< 1726946048 595162 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well no
< 1726946050 741414 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that would be
< 1726946077 185599 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs ::=]
< 1726946333 236899 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how would you add information to this???: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Wiki/pedia/.org
< 1726946520 382830 :JAA!~JAA@user/meow/JAA PRIVMSG #esolangs :The other day, I was thinking about making an esolang where programs are encoded as Git repos. Of course, I'm not the first to think of that: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Legit
< 1726946551 61254 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :when you get an idea but its taken
< 1726946553 935366 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you feel bad
< 1726946555 370110 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :._.
< 1726946580 956445 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is APL's name a joke or pun
> 1726946612 42137 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140168&oldid=139691 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+93) 10
< 1726946661 359267 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :JAA: In PLT and PLDI, there's really only one E. I'll admit that knowledge of E is limited; we consider it something of a shibboleth for awareness of actors, capabilities, etc.
< 1726946748 501265 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :bye
< 1726946751 936564 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1726946760 579974 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :JAA: Oh, also, [[Cammy/Hives]] isn't well-done, but it sketches how to encode Cammy programs as git objects.
< 1726946764 186135 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: APL is an abbreviation of "A programming language", the title of an original article that proposed the precursor for it or something like that. It's *weird* because the late Ken Iverson was actually *good* at naming things, and used inventive original names for some APL constructs, but somehow he failed that one naming check.
< 1726946814 952132 :JAA!~JAA@user/meow/JAA PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I saw that one, too, yeah.
< 1726946878 925269 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The main advantage of my encoding is that duplicate actions don't take up extra space. But there's some weaknesses, like git's lack of lists.
< 1726946885 705643 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then went with that theme and named an APL variant J, so now we have to disambiguate it as APL-like J, or Jsoftware J, or Iverson's J, or IJS, and somehow even infected Arthur Whitney to create an APL-like language called K
> 1726947269 449169 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/brainfuck turing completeness proof14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140169 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+791) 10Created page with "naw jk this is every logic gate in brainfuck  PUT SOME MORE IN THE COMMENT SECTION BELOW, AND I'LL PICK MY FAVORITES ON THE NEXT EPISODE OF MORTY ON THE TALK PAGE == some terms ==  a-z are inputs (, for 0/1)  A-Z 
> 1726947845 191702 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140170&oldid=140165 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+1360) 10why do you want to remove the page tho
> 1726947910 426796 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Monte14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=140171 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1701) 10Stub one of my projects. Ask me anything on the talk page; I'm basically the only person to write serious amounts of Monte.
> 1726948004 261818 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Y/Y14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140172&oldid=139851 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+33) 10/* Syntax */
> 1726948156 796319 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Corbin 5*  10moved [[02E10]] to [[E (eeEee)]]: Moving a joke to a funnier name in order to document the much-more-well-known language with the same name.
> 1726948156 821140 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Corbin 5*  10moved [[02Talk:E10]] to [[Talk:E (eeEee)]]: Moving a joke to a funnier name in order to document the much-more-well-known language with the same name.
> 1726948238 450482 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07E14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140177&oldid=103564 5* 03Corbin 5* (+8) 10Inline a post-move redirect.
> 1726948282 875275 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07E++14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140178&oldid=139704 5* 03Corbin 5* (+8) 10Inline a post-move redirect.
> 1726949476 512440 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07E14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140179&oldid=140174 5* 03Corbin 5* (+2041) 10Stub an important language.
> 1726949862 598948 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07E14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140180&oldid=140179 5* 03Corbin 5* (+468) 10Explain how to run E-on-Java. And yes, I just tested this.
> 1726949873 885667 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Borsch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140181&oldid=107546 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+8) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/107546|107546]] by [[Special:Contributions/Andriy|Andriy]] ([[User talk:Andriy|talk]])
> 1726949949 682182 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:E14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140182&oldid=140176 5* 03Corbin 5* (+98) 10There used to be an incorrect redirect here.
> 1726950003 642902 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07E14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140183&oldid=140180 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+109) 10Distinguish confusion, add categories
> 1726950054 492031 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07E (eeEee)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140184&oldid=140173 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-33) 10Change to wikilink
< 1726950099 435997 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Big thanks to PSDW as always. They are so much quicker than me; I wonder what kinds of tooling they use.
> 1726950257 167312 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Spaced14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140185&oldid=140087 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+54) 10Categories
> 1726950488 472279 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Spacebar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140186&oldid=140086 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+275) 10Header, interpreter, category
> 1726950524 175676 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07KeyVM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140187&oldid=77566 5* 03Corbin 5* (-18) 10Bluelink E.
> 1726950566 727019 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07RarVM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140188&oldid=106403 5* 03Corbin 5* (-18) 10Bluelink E.
< 1726950572 431640 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
> 1726950730 68199 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07E14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140189&oldid=140183 5* 03Corbin 5* (+181) 10Cite MarkM's thesis, as is tradition.
< 1726950734 470839 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1726951129 246677 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Monte14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140190&oldid=140171 5* 03Corbin 5* (+603) 10Explain how to run Typhon. Just tested this too.
> 1726951632 511871 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[072KWLang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140191&oldid=139826 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+169) 10/* Files */ Clarifications
< 1726951640 204282 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: the APL-like J is the only one I know of – what are the others?
< 1726951648 899348 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1726951696 600407 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Monte14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140192&oldid=140190 5* 03Corbin 5* (+650) 10Mint. Mint. Mint! Mint! MINT! MINT! MINT!
< 1726951880 383092 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: other what? other languages named J? I don't think there's any notable one unless you look at esowiki which has lots of badly named languages, including https://esolangs.org/wiki/J
< 1726951895 618056 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, OK
< 1726951911 544261 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually I was reminded of the various computational models that are named after greek letters
< 1726951915 197471 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lambda calculus, pi calculus, etc.
< 1726951923 364886 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think there are quite a lot of those, and don't know if there are any duplicates
> 1726951923 805944 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brugtiohell14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140193&oldid=140167 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+143) 10Categories
> 1726951998 893120 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Functioning Mods14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140194&oldid=140170 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1335) 10Apparent name change
> 1726952039 476470 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140195&oldid=139959 5* 03Corbin 5* (+346) 10/* Abstract algebraic languages */ Not why I came over here, but hey, more evidence isn't bad.
> 1726952040 237423 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07JSFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140196&oldid=139253 5* 03Ais523 5* (+312) 10external resource  the 5-character JSFuck derivative
< 1726952076 401723 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: are you sure that BF isn't a concatenative language?
< 1726952251 424380 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thinking about it, in most languages, concatenation is either application or composition; but application isn't associative, so if it forms a monoid it's probably going to be composition
> 1726952443 526245 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Constant14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140197&oldid=134800 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+24) 10See also
> 1726952512 738501 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Befunge/Constants14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140198&oldid=140164 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+41) 10Stub, category
< 1726952571 828480 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's why we name them after animals, there's more choices for animals than for letters in the alphabet, so we have alligator calculus and bird sociology
> 1726952734 694724 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Befunge/Constants14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140199&oldid=140198 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+161) 10BefunRep
< 1726952857 212858 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I mean, yes, I'd say that the classic syntax is concatenative, but I'm also not going to push the point if folks don't see it that way.
< 1726952918 599895 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The "every language has composition, every language is concatenative" meme is fun but also a little reductive. Like, the composition from concatenating e.g. Python programs is very fancy and requires a trip up to native type theory: dependent types, category of presheaves, category of contexts, the whole nine yards.
< 1726952948 670995 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Composition in BF still requires forgetting where we started. Kind of like turning the tape into an affine space.
< 1726952953 635407 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, as the languages get more complex you reach a point where it isn't clear whether the definitions apply or how, but I'm OK wth that
> 1726952985 802608 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[076 bytes of useless element14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140200&oldid=140071 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+177) 10Categories
< 1726952993 34843 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, I was viewing BF as composition of functions from (tape, pointer) pairs to (tape, pointer) pairs
< 1726953022 373357 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Fortunately native type theory is as hard as it gets. The authors of the paper were careful to make it work over any first-order rewritable syntax. But yeah, it's a trip. Two trips if you don't know topoi.
< 1726953023 296518 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although of course, you can remove the need to specify the pointer by keeping it in one place and moving the tape instead (sort-of like how Turing machines were initially envisaged)
< 1726953101 556706 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that reminds me, I found a really eso-interesting encoding of a list in functional languages: [a, b, c, d] is encoded as \f.((((f a) b) c) d)
< 1726953133 470881 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is really elegant in some ways but really awkward in other ways – it feels like a good fit for Unlambda (in the sense of "this initially looks normal but you have to do really weird things to deal with it"
< 1726953140 728423 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Mm, yeah. That would work too. That's kind of like a comonadic approach, since the tape and pointers are like a context from which you could draw the next value (to test at the next bracket, I guess?)
< 1726953160 308655 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :)
< 1726953183 836163 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ha, yeah! Those are fun examples of hyperfunctions. I *hate* these, but you can do stuff like eat an indefinite number of arguments.
< 1726953248 481744 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, doing that with an infinite list gets weird quickly
< 1726953255 235537 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :doing it with a finite list is also weird, but in a different way
< 1726953322 779060 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Isn't that just the Church encoding for tuples when it's finite? Or maybe I'm missing something.
> 1726953370 326696 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140201&oldid=140195 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1457) 10/* Capability-aware languages */ new section
< 1726953370 708759 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: ouch. that's not a convenient encoding because it's hard to know where the list ends
< 1726953416 179028 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but yes, it's cursed in exactly the way that unlambda encourages
< 1726953466 488612 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I've done some experimentation into writing programs that use it – call/cc seems to help a lot
< 1726953493 640664 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the "it's hard to know where the list ends" isn't the most cursed thing about it, trying to deal with two different lists at once is harder
< 1726953601 109564 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1726953696 511710 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(assuming that you just deal with the heads of the list rather than iterating the whole thing every time)
< 1726954175 403478 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.161.123 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
> 1726954208 9199 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140202&oldid=140201 5* 03Corbin 5* (+589) 10/* Actor languages */ new section
> 1726954441 611670 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140203&oldid=140202 5* 03Ais523 5* (+384) 10/* Actor languages */ are there enough esolangs like that?
< 1726954693 312126 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Not meta, just trying to be efficient: Have you seen https://webperso.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/paradigmsDIAGRAMeng101.pdf before?
< 1726954745 626170 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no
< 1726954812 838742 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, okay. This thing's super-popular in PLT/PLDI circles, so I guess it's Lucky 10000. I am *very* flexible with how we categorize stuff; I suggested actors because it might fill the gaps WRT our current categories for computational models.
< 1726954850 493719 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fwiw I think there are many combinations not considered on that chart, e.g. languages which have state but don't have an equivalent of a function call/return
< 1726954871 412885 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh yeah, the chart suffers from the gentle tyrant.
< 1726954876 237317 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like the many languages where the only control flow is "implicit loop around program" + sometimes a conditional skip
< 1726954904 790214 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(https://lobste.rs/s/alzaim/thoughts_on_gentle_tyranny_call_return is a fun summary of the discourse around "tyranny of call/return")
> 1726954929 394098 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Baz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140204&oldid=77943 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+23) 10
< 1726954953 788601 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and of course But Is It Art? doesn't fit anywhere on the chart, but then it was meant to serve as a counterexample to a wide range of statements about programming languages, so that's not surprising
< 1726955085 698853 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Isn't that concurrent CSP?
> 1726955112 125463 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beefydie14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140205&oldid=133804 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+10) 10/* Impossible Programs */
< 1726955124 463744 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: it's missing many things required by arrows leading to it, though
< 1726955134 615961 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Like, I could imagine using a CHR language (Constraint Handling Rules, another Lucky 10000, lets you add CSP to imperative languages) to express But Is It Art?
< 1726955137 253809 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you could implement it in a constraint-solving language but not vicee versa
< 1726955154 820300 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, that doesn't matter. The paradigms aren't monotone or heritable in that way.
< 1726955170 41586 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, the chart seems to imply that they are
< 1726955215 446319 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Have you heard of absorb vs reify? The chart is expressing how intepreters could choose to absorb certain concepts. An interpreter could, of course, reify just about everything; but folks typically take shortcuts.
< 1726955259 960548 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've heard of a lot of definitions along those lines, but haven't got a good understanding of which word represents which concept
< 1726955282 681017 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in particular, I think I've seen "reify" used lots of times with lots of different meanings, most of which are incorrect, but it has made it hard to work out what the correct meaning is
< 1726955334 4572 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but, e.g., BIIA? has no concept of unification, which seems fairly core to typical declarative logic languages
< 1726955363 206618 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :In this context, absorbing just means that the interpreter doesn't implement some facet of the interpreted language. Instead, the interpreter's host language provides that facet. Common examples are call/return, exceptions, FFI.
< 1726955397 31143 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And reifying is what we normally get to do instead. Make a struct, make an enum, make some flags, make a state machine.
< 1726955439 494621 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is absorbing here related to metacircular evaluation? (although not the same, because it's not a self-interpreter)
> 1726955445 111719 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bfbf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140206&oldid=98866 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+24) 10/* Implementations */
< 1726955459 332531 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, it's like programming only with if blocks and numeric for blocks, you can't exit a loop early
< 1726955470 328210 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah! Or at least it comes up a lot in that context. Because anything absorbed has to be implemented at the "bottom" rather than at some "layer" of the stack.
< 1726955481 255925 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's why basic or fortran needs a while or a goto
< 1726955505 883746 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: don't many basics let you exit a for loop early by assigning to the loop variable?
< 1726955516 311281 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or late, I guess
< 1726955543 712501 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :now I am wondering whether Perl invented the redo; control structure or whether it has predecessors
< 1726955598 265436 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: er, yeah, you can probably do that
< 1726955708 258157 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Okay, so my brain is not happy with me, but I think that BIIA? allows expressing concurrent CSP with the tricky caveat that tiles can appear *more than once* in the witness.
< 1726955710 594546 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :now I am thinking about how weird C's for loops are
< 1726955752 511225 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: well, tiles have to be able to appear more than once, there are finitely many tiles but the language is TC, so it has to get the infinite storage somehow
< 1726955752 523070 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The concurrency comes from the multiple possible widths for witnesses. The constraints are expressed vertically, giving a free temporal logic (whether you asked for it or not). Tiles have to be reusable for multiset semantics to work.
< 1726955799 811701 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: of course it has predecessors! C has three of the four loop control words: goto, break, continue. perl renames break to last and continue to next and realizes that the fourth one is missing and names it redo so all four have four-letter keywords. ruby kind of ruins the four-letter theme by naming one "retry" instead of "goto", but has the innovation where all four work on a method call with a 
< 1726955806 71723 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :smalltalk-like block argument, such that inside the block, redo/next is a local jump to the beginning or end of that block, while retry/last jumps out of the method call.
< 1726955835 718226 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :from my point of view, concurrency is something that acts at a different level from BIIA? – the language doesn't specify how the search is done
< 1726955864 732868 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Hm, maybe I don't grok yet. BIIA? is context-free in terms of decomposing the input into tiles, right? What's TC is the language accepted by an arbitrary BIIA? program. Or does the original input matter too?
< 1726955868 820075 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although I have noticed that for search-based declarative languages, breadth-first search and depth-first search give observably different results and both are useful in different contexts
< 1726955900 310012 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: so the program is made up of the tiles, and the interpreter tries to assemble them into a rectangle, potentially using tiles more than once
> 1726955919 765696 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bitcoin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140207&oldid=139208 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-6) 10/* Examples */
< 1726955923 501332 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is a TC operation even if you don't have input and ouptut
> 1726955943 216278 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bitcoin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=140208&oldid=140207 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+54) 10/* Examples */
< 1726955981 361191 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also perl allows you to label all four control statements, which is much less error-prone than using a number for how many levels to break like dc or intercal do. sadly perl makes the mistake of making the labels dynamic local instead of lexical my, whereas ruby's retry/last is lexical but only works on one level, which is why I aim for the best combination in the esoteric python extension that I 
< 1726955987 369494 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :proposed, where you can break out from any depth with a lexically local loop label
< 1726956006 551203 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :when you do have input and output, you can define an interpreter for a TC language in BIIA, but the TCness doesn't really come from the I/O, it's just being used to guide something that was TC anyway
< 1726956037 832916 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Okay, yeah. So I'd suggest that the concurrency required for concurrent CSP is here; in addition to a monotone database which all candidates satisfy, there's one thread for each possible candidate not yet falsified, and they aren't monotone.
< 1726956072 21380 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I observed many years ago that threading and backtracking are quite similar in nature – the primary difference is that backtracking has a defined evaluation order
< 1726956077 606513 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: how would it work if TCness came from IO? do you just mean like a CPU where the run button is broken so you can only run programs by mashing on the single-step button?
< 1726956099 718306 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: that's an interesting question, and I've seen plenty of degenerate examples but no interesting ones
< 1726956105 797062 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :That monotonicity is driven by the input data. As input arrives, a good searcher will rule out anything which doesn't fit it. If a lot of data is coming in, a good searcher will spend most of its time tessellating with regard to that input data.
< 1726956127 593734 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are quite a few language subsets that are able to operate on nontrivial data structures but not to create one in scratch, so they need to take one from the input to get started
< 1726956184 389253 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess you could also do it with finite control where there are buttons for each state of the finite state program, and each button only does anything if it corresponds to the next step to be executed, which isn't really interesting, though it can get annoying if it only works if it's the only button pressed
< 1726956252 349765 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's also that Malbolge extension which has an unoutput operation that reads and removes its own output, in order to provide infinite storage, although I've probably forgotten the details because that sounds ilke a PDA rather than a TC language
< 1726956253 393198 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it would be even more annoying if there's a "DO" and a "PLEASE" button but the computer aborts if the ratio of your mashing speed between the two don't remain between bounds of 1/5 and 1/3
< 1726956265 334368 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(except for the first few presses where that's impossible)
< 1726956270 57055 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: But I will grant you that I have no clue how to *encode* a given CSP problem onto BIIA? I think it only makes sense for a fairly weird family of problems. Because tiles have to physically connect their extents, it seems like the input data would need to be encoded to have a lot of temporal redundancy.
< 1726956355 225093 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Like, perhaps n letters of data need to be encoded into an n-by-n matrix in order to be recognized, and perhaps n needs to be rounded up to the nearest prime if you don't want aliasing.
< 1726956364 114926 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I think the way you do it is to have most of the tiles blank, with only a few tiles at the top (or left) of the program storing the input
< 1726956375 466406 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, and then there's the languages that require printing a character as output after every step or every loop iteration, like it has a trace feature that you can't turn off, so you can only run programs if you have enough blank printing paper or paper tape
< 1726956444 110073 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :something I came up with a while ago was a language where it mattered whether or not a function did the same thing in two different concepts, and the way that was determined was by checking to see if the function produced the same output (in the sense of stdio/logfile output, not in the sense of the return value)
< 1726956467 965234 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the idea didn't fit into a full language the way I wanted it to
< 1726956477 352195 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*the same thing in two different contexts
< 1726956644 827070 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Anyway, lemme reveal my intuition. I used to room with a former world-leaderboard Tetris player. Tetris pieces come in "bags" for fairness: you're guaranteed to get one of a relatively small number of piece orderings, every time.
< 1726956678 444840 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So a big deal a few years ago was memorizing the "full clears" for two bags, three bags, etc. A full clear is when, at the end of a bag, the pieces all form a perfect rectangle and vanish.
< 1726956733 298558 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess there are languages that are TC but must fill some sort of memory space with time and can never erase memory: BIIA, that restricted brainfuck that can only change cells from 0 to 1, 3SP (if it's TC), the I/D machine, the idealized 19th century mathematician with paper and quill and ink and wastebasket
< 1726956756 254779 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :was this before or after the "perfect Tetris algorithm" was discovered that would necessarily work for any piece sequence that was generated using the bag rules?
< 1726956770 662315 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(although, I think most world-record Tetris players don't use it)
< 1726956774 610007 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :BIIA? therefore implements a delightfully natural question for Tetris players, particularly if your implementation prints witnesses and finds multiples.
< 1726956830 324955 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: BIIA lets you arbitrarily repeat tiles in any proportion. Tetris doesn't.
< 1726956845 642923 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with Tetris you're forced to the proportion that the game gives you
< 1726956855 892371 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that you're thinking of the two-bag discoveries, in like 2021.
< 1726956861 527080 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: those are only filling memory from a certain point of view, e.g. the I/D machine TCness proof effectively emulates two queues in memory, but one of them is a bit bucket and never read, and the other one can expand and shrink like a normal queue
< 1726956870 802777 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: One sec, but that's an advantage.
< 1726956876 72585 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's why in Tetris you can't survive on alternating S and Z pieces, but in BIIA you can by just filling 6 columns with S and 4 columns with Z
< 1726956898 197876 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: although of course that doesn't actually get the corners of the rectangle right
< 1726956933 822326 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yes the goal there isn't full clear but not topping out if full lines are removed
< 1726956946 812719 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's proven that you can't do that with alternating S and Z
< 1726956962 298298 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I thought the specific impossible pattern was a long series of S, followed by a long series of Z, alternating indefinitely
< 1726956967 368215 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :rather than just one S followed by one Z
< 1726957000 745070 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there have to be enough to prevent you just putting the Ss in a stack and then putting the Zs in another stack
< 1726957103 69590 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, I believe it's any series of S and Z at a 1:1 ratio. the only way to not leave holes is to put only S in some two-column fifths of the board and only Z in other two-column fifths of the board. if you change the pattern by placing an S or Z horizontally, or vertically but not aligned to the fifths, or change from S to Z, then you get a hole that you can't clear without leaving just as many holes.
< 1726957160 545958 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :OK, because the board is 10 columns wide
< 1726957161 111588 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :one S then one Z then one S then one Z repeating is already impossible
< 1726957167 223092 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, the board is 10 columns wide
< 1726957182 614675 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my OS came with a Tetris-like game, but the scoring is very different and it makes the game play very differently
< 1726957187 85192 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the height is at least 20 tall but the exact height doesn't matter, nor the rule of what exactly counts as topping off
< 1726957236 295894 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the board appears to be 20×10, and the pieces seem to be selected entirely at random (not with a bag system)
< 1726957281 746067 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, that's old style tetris like NES tetris. very different from modern tetris games, but both styles have an active community playing them
< 1726957287 125061 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the scoring system gives a huge number of points when the bottom line is cleared, and the rest hardly matter by comparison – so to score a lot you need to repeatedly get singles at the bottom
< 1726957310 305651 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(especially because the speed of the pieces falling depend on how many lines you have cleared)
< 1726957310 806087 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait, *singles* at the bottom specifically?
< 1726957325 525246 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so even a clean tetris at the bottom four rows doesn't count?
< 1726957335 597682 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you clear the bottom 4, that doesn't score much more (maybe not any more) than clearing the bottom 1
< 1726957342 417573 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it takes you 4 times closer to the point at which pieces fall faster
< 1726957366 835356 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's innovative, I hadn't heard of that scoring system
< 1726957422 999657 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I knew there are different scoring systems, in particular there are ones that don't reward you at all for multiple lines, and ones that really push you to tetrises and multiples
< 1726957446 232799 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the latter is the most common
< 1726957459 589862 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I knew the former also exists, they just want you to survive for long
< 1726958049 324926 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.161.123 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1726959157 424668 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Okay, sorry, there was food. There's multiple common board widths (and homebrew boards), so we want a search over all widths. We can constrain it by adding a dedicated horizontal sync character.
< 1726959241 304310 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I like the point about ragged boards and S and Z. We can generalize the search by adding e.g. a fill character that indicates where the board is already occupied, and a 1×1 fill tile.
< 1726961527 728627 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving