< 1727913760 641779 :mtm!~textual@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1727913906 425206 :mtm!~textual@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1727916883 322160 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@123.64.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1727919107 671107 :ajal!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement
< 1727920296 612640 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: x to delete after the cursor or X to delete before the cursor. I thought dl and dh respectively would be equivalent, but perhaps I don't understand how the original vi works.
< 1727920350 962607 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also these usually can't delete newline characters, and there's the special commands J and gJ for that
< 1727920425 594484 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: thanks
< 1727920663 421531 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :unrelated. the webcomic page https://www.sandraandwoo.com/scarlet/comic/a-sky-full-of-stars-027/ has the first appearance of a black-haired boy. as soon as this page was published, that boy was added to the public characters list https://www.sandraandwoo.com/scarlet/characters/ and is listed as the boyfriend of the 9 year old main character. I don't think I've ever seen any webcomic give an early 
< 1727920669 430719 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :spoiler about a character who just showed up this way. 
> 1727921923 557050 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ropy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142069&oldid=46036 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10/* Externam resources */ Fix typo
< 1727922594 539505 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1727922745 22238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN #esolangs lambdabot :Lambda_Robots:_100%_Loyal
> 1727925478 988370 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07W11014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142070&oldid=131240 5* 03Arctenik 5* (+218) 10Note on Turing-completeness + Wikipedia link
> 1727925772 13249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish with gotos and input14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142071&oldid=140552 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+24) 10
> 1727926096 102494 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:^14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142072&oldid=140538 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+103) 10
> 1727926695 313810 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:^14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142073&oldid=142072 5* 03None1 5* (+255) 10/* Written in  */
< 1727926998 488057 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1727927058 438413 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1727927306 402338 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname
> 1727927905 426273 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Autoconfirmed users14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142074&oldid=141951 5* 03None1 5* (+239) 10
> 1727927976 448808 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142075&oldid=141941 5* 03None1 5* (+279) 10/* ? */
> 1727929309 263785 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Kmid14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=142076 5* 03Arctenik 5* (+8042) 10Create article
> 1727929391 558743 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Kwert14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142077&oldid=141362 5* 03Arctenik 5* (+15719) 10Add Turing-completeness construction
> 1727929839 290377 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Arctenik14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142078&oldid=107529 5* 03Arctenik 5* (+103) 10Kmid + some reformatting
> 1727930692 970858 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142079&oldid=142013 5* 03None1 5* (+250) 10/* Make it WORSE! */
> 1727930809 385738 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142080&oldid=142079 5* 03None1 5* (+502) 10/* Help contributing/translating/administrating Funcode? */ new section
> 1727930852 285481 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142081&oldid=142080 5* 03None1 5* (+34) 10/* Help contributing/translating/administrating Funcode? */
< 1727932143 500048 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1727932146 15382 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1727933409 989922 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1727933621 574936 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142082&oldid=142081 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+645) 10
> 1727934464 820299 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142083&oldid=140842 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+37) 10
> 1727934912 260734 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Target14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142084&oldid=141954 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+100) 10
< 1727935209 496864 :m5zs7k!aquares@web10.mydevil.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
> 1727935311 678365 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142085&oldid=141744 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+675) 10
> 1727935365 733029 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/My Rate to the user that I know14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142086&oldid=141971 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+4) 10
> 1727935668 768030 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142087&oldid=141464 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+719) 10/* Funcode Wiki */ new section
< 1727935892 12574 :m5zs7k!aquares@web10.mydevil.net JOIN #esolangs m5zs7k :m5zs7k
< 1727936062 205313 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that the flexible arrays in C99 is not as good as the zero-length arrays in GNU, because zero-length arrays are more logical and have more uses; they are not only used for adding extra data on the end of a structure (although that is the most common use), but can also be used for other things, e.g. if a name needs to be defined even though it is not used, or associating numbers/types (using sizeof and typeof)
> 1727936115 583411 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ting Vit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142088&oldid=124926 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+56) 10
< 1727936253 813410 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :The documentation of GCC says "As a quirk of the original implementation of zero-length arrays, sizeof evaluates to zero" but that shouldn't just be a quirk of the implementation; it is logically what it should do, since if the number of elements is zero then the size of the entire array should be zero (although the size of the element of the array might be nonzero).
> 1727936291 624419 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Befunge/Constants14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142089&oldid=141966 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+165) 10
< 1727936751 548248 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Flexible arrays can be useful for static initialization, and perhaps if you want the compiler to complain if additional members are added (although GCC also allows it in the middle, which doesn't make much sense), but other than that I think zero-length arrays are better in many ways
< 1727937307 580187 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: C also doesn't have empty structs, and C++ "empty" structs have a positive sizeof (usually 1). this is unfortunate, and C++ added special rules for inheritence and later an attribute so that those empty structures can in some context behave like they're zero-sized. given that situation, it's reasonable that C doesn't allow zero-length arrays either. and even if you somehow added zero-sized arrays 
< 1727937313 590028 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or empty structs to standard C, you'd probably need some kind of special attribute to mark an array as potentially zero-sized because of backwards compatibility. that said, C does support structs ending in a trailing length 1 array where you allocate the struct as variable-sized, and in practice you can treat these as a trailing flexible array that can even be zero-sized in most respects.
< 1727937401 893112 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the lack of zero-sized data is problematic, and in particular you have to be a bit careful with it if you try to export a C interface from rust, because rust does fully support zero-sized structs and arrays and will put them in the exported interface too.
< 1727937591 11889 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this especially comes up if you want to pass a potentially zero-sized struct as a function argument: both libev and perl's XS interface uses macro magic for it where if the structure would be zero-sized then no argument is passed instead, the macro expands to either nothing or the (nonzero sized argument) followed by a comma
< 1727937772 150644 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Will the exported interfaces from Rust be usable with GCC with zero-length arrays?
< 1727937846 856938 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just use the GNU extensions in GCC, and many of them will work with Clang as well so if someone else wants to use Clang they can probably still compile these programs
< 1727937866 89471 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: I don't think so, because the problem is mostly zero-length structs rather than zero-length arrays, especially if passed by value or embedded in another struct, and you can't pass an array by value to a function in C. or... does the gcc extension let you make a true sizeof 0 struct too?
< 1727937930 477331 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :arrays with constant zero size don't come up too often, and variable-sized arrays are addressed through pointers rather than passed by value and that does not cause problems
< 1727938149 539740 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :GCC allows you to make a empty structure, but only in C (not in C++, which adds a member even if you do not specify any, according to the documentation)
< 1727938290 313871 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: empty structure sure, but does it have sizeof 0 and consume no space when it's in a larger struct at a non-trailing position?
< 1727938354 254153 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, its size is zero (in C only, not in C++) and consumes no space
< 1727938449 825084 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(although I don't know if alignment is affected at all?)
< 1727938454 211468 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice. in that case that might work to use a rust interface, though I'm not sure if the two agree on how to pass such a struct as function argument by value
< 1727938496 93812 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Some of my programs do pass struct by value, although they are usually small structures not bigger than 64 bits
< 1727938733 610397 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(if you rely on such a gcc empty struct, especially in a header, you should probably make sure that it #errors out with an explanation if someone tries to compile it in C++)
< 1727938958 46392 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1727943957 851777 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1727944988 565548 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Autoconfirmed users14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142090&oldid=142074 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+50) 10
> 1727946470 293637 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142091&oldid=142087 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+184) 10/* Funcode Wiki */
> 1727946953 709875 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142092&oldid=142004 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-5) 10
< 1727947601 164697 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1727948396 395148 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org JOIN #esolangs leah2 :Leah Neukirchen
< 1727948666 138073 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1727949543 398030 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@123.64.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
> 1727949713 418436 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142093&oldid=142085 5* 03Ais523 5* (-675) 10Reverted edit by [[Special:Contributions/PrySigneToFry|PrySigneToFry]] ([[User talk:PrySigneToFry|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Ais523|Ais523]]
< 1727949844 848525 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown
< 1727950561 263828 :Deepfriedice!~Deepfried@117-20-68-42.751444.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN #esolangs Deepfriedice :realname
< 1727951322 88726 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1727951414 592929 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1727952345 886613 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1727954363 199577 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@123.64.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1727954718 394431 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@123.64.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
> 1727955556 65953 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142094&oldid=142091 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+666) 10/* Funcode Wiki */
< 1727956101 983373 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1727956156 318269 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
> 1727956452 247606 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WhatLang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142095&oldid=141616 5* 03DGCK81LNN 5* (+0) 10/* Practices and idioms */
< 1727956498 249897 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1727956511 318881 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
> 1727956914 212511 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Lol waht i cant edit talk pages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142096&oldid=142068 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+204) 10add cat (numbers instead of ASCII characters)
> 1727956945 515310 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Lol waht i cant edit talk pages14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142097&oldid=142096 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+5) 10
< 1727957010 443381 :mtm!~textual@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1727957141 334021 :mtm!~textual@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN #esolangs mtm :Textual User
< 1727957553 425281 :trumae!~Thunderbi@170.231.88.214 JOIN #esolangs trumae :trumae
< 1727958382 318335 :wWwwW38!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
> 1727958543 755583 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Poetic LOLWICNETP14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=142098 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+688) 10Created page with "{{lang|a=User:Unname4798|i=[[lol waht i cant edit talk pages]]|f=a member of the [[Poetic (family)|Poetic]] family}} == Commands == <pre> 1 letter: (x) Set a variable x to 0 2 letters: (x, y) Increase x variable's value by y 3 letters: (x, y) Decrease x vari
> 1727958562 271538 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Poetic LOLWICNETP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142099&oldid=142098 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+7) 10
< 1727958567 318831 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1727958590 320729 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1727958597 741615 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is it possible to create a TC esolang with I/O thats also I/O complete but still has no quine
< 1727958839 318467 :wWwwW38!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
> 1727958875 78839 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Poetic (family)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142100&oldid=138132 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+46) 10
> 1727958952 999950 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Unname479814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142101&oldid=141428 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+36) 10
> 1727958964 985283 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Unname479814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142102&oldid=142101 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+1) 10
> 1727958980 861983 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Unname479814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142103&oldid=142102 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+1) 10
> 1727959083 130474 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname479814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142104&oldid=141845 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+114) 10/* Move warring */
> 1727959096 678604 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname479814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142105&oldid=142104 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+6) 10/* Move warring */
> 1727959215 600288 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname479814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142106&oldid=142105 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+273) 10
> 1727959267 396481 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname479814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142107&oldid=142106 5* 03Unname4798 5* (-273) 10incorrect
> 1727959380 306414 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Poetic LOLWICNETP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142108&oldid=142099 5* 03Unname4798 5* (-18) 10
> 1727959474 605665 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Poetic LOLWICNETP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142109&oldid=142108 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+1) 10
> 1727959497 644428 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Poetic LOLWICNETP14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142110&oldid=142109 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+0) 10
< 1727960011 614593 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@123.64.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1727960176 739470 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname4798/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142111&oldid=141442 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+28) 10
> 1727960221 656461 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname4798/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142112&oldid=142111 5* 03Unname4798 5* (-32) 10
> 1727960409 335880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname479814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142113&oldid=142107 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+231) 10
< 1727960573 318352 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1727961121 319525 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1727961403 57166 :fowl!~fowl@user/fowl JOIN #esolangs fowl :fowl
> 1727961548 889928 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Poetic LOLWICNETP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142114&oldid=142110 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+0) 10
< 1727961627 332498 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1727962141 389696 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@123.64.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
< 1727962380 894655 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@123.64.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt QUIT :Client Quit
> 1727963588 514539 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Lol waht i cant edit talk pages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142115&oldid=142097 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-19) 10/* truth machine */
> 1727963712 797476 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname479814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142116&oldid=142113 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+263) 10/* What did I do to User:Yayimhere? */
< 1727964628 711672 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :<wWwwW> is it possible to create a TC esolang with I/O thats also I/O complete but still has no quine ← my initial thought was "I don't think so, but I'm not sure", but it is possible at least for batch I/O – you make the print routines refuse to output text that starts with the first character of the program unless there's been either input or output already
< 1727964666 29699 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in other words, you basically partially hardcode the "output for no input" in the program source, but the output when there's some input can be calculated arbitrarily
< 1727964699 547789 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :extending this to interactive I/O runs into philosophical questions about what sort of input a quine is allowed to take
< 1727964843 448938 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah no, this is simple: you disallow printing output that starts with the first character of the program until after input has actively been read, and found to be nonempty
< 1727964931 150731 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :still I/O-complete because the output printed before the first nonempty input is a constant, and executable on a Turing machine
< 1727964965 681225 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :however, in some cases *writing* the program may be uncomputable, as you may need to solve the halting problem to work out what the first byte of output is
< 1727965493 418798 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1727965649 191642 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1727966299 254453 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
> 1727966655 923158 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname479814]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142117&oldid=142116 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+1) 10
> 1727966728 925801 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Poetic LOLWICNETP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142118&oldid=142114 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+25) 10
> 1727966854 351297 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Lol waht i cant edit talk pages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142119&oldid=142115 5* 03Unname4798 5* (+40) 10Don't hate yourself, tommyaweosme!
> 1727966860 995005 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Egnufeb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142120&oldid=142047 5* 03Emelang 5* (+76) 10/* Cat Program */
> 1727966937 932859 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Egnufeb14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142121&oldid=142120 5* 03Emelang 5* (+0) 10changed the looping cat program so that it will worm if it will be run in an interpreter
> 1727966969 652779 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Poetic LOLWICNETP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142122&oldid=142118 5* 03Unname4798 5* (-70) 10
< 1727967148 36624 :Deepfriedice!~Deepfried@117-20-68-42.751444.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1727967881 879072 :Deepfriedice!~Deepfried@117-20-68-5.751444.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN #esolangs Deepfriedice :realname
> 1727968053 133898 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Egnufeb14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142123&oldid=142121 5* 03Emelang 5* (+122) 10added a few instructions
> 1727968072 893155 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Egnufeb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142124&oldid=142123 5* 03Emelang 5* (+2) 10/* Hello, World! */
> 1727968240 536190 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Egnufeb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142125&oldid=142124 5* 03Emelang 5* (+4) 10/* Cat Program */
< 1727968389 610442 :Deepfriedice!~Deepfried@117-20-68-5.751444.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1727968521 925918 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Egnufeb14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142126&oldid=142125 5* 03Emelang 5* (+103) 10/* Cat Program */
> 1727968643 960367 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Egnufeb14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142127&oldid=142126 5* 03Emelang 5* (+40) 10/* Instructions */
> 1727968674 792085 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Egnufeb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142128&oldid=142127 5* 03Emelang 5* (+0) 10sometimes i dont like redirects
> 1727968717 54022 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Egnufeb14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142129&oldid=142128 5* 03Emelang 5* (+2) 10/* Instructions */
> 1727968868 773107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Egnufeb14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142130&oldid=142129 5* 03Emelang 5* (+131) 10added d
< 1727969129 402229 :Deepfriedice!~Deepfried@117-20-68-42.751444.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN #esolangs Deepfriedice :realname
< 1727969393 691666 :Deepfriedice!~Deepfried@117-20-68-42.751444.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1727969503 392079 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@123.64.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
> 1727969588 31900 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Egnufeb14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142131&oldid=142130 5* 03Emelang 5* (+220) 10added calculator
> 1727969630 741794 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Egnufeb14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142132&oldid=142131 5* 03Emelang 5* (-9) 10fixed calculator
> 1727969709 197945 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Egnufeb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142133&oldid=142132 5* 03Emelang 5* (+2) 10fixed calculator once more
> 1727969819 865820 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142134&oldid=142075 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+107) 10/* ban tommyawsome */
< 1727969832 319146 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1727969943 952232 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thx ais523
< 1727969965 244301 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but wut if instead of input w condiser: is program in memory
> 1727970253 281462 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Unname479814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142135&oldid=142117 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+6) 10/* What did I do to User:Yayimhere? */
< 1727970399 318750 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
> 1727970418 159105 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Egnufeb14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142136&oldid=142133 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+2) 10/* Hello, World! */
< 1727970423 318792 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1727970425 53630 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*we
> 1727970508 367964 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142137&oldid=142039 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+47) 10/* Introductions */
> 1727970516 231721 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=142138 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+4640) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} {{featured language}} |name=Beforge |- |author=[[user:Shriansh]] |year=[[:Category:2024|2024]] |memsys=[[:Category:Cell-based & Stack based|Cell-based & Stack Based]] |dimensions=two-dimensional |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] ==Warni
> 1727970535 225512 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Lol waht i cant edit talk pages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142139&oldid=142119 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-40) 10"i" literally means "input"
> 1727970903 380391 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142140&oldid=142138 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-22) 10
> 1727971306 518265 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142141&oldid=142140 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-152) 10
> 1727971337 249818 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142142&oldid=142141 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+6) 10
< 1727971351 318454 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1727971756 115755 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1727971918 315013 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142143&oldid=142142 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+0) 10
> 1727971990 717126 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142144&oldid=142143 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+19) 10
> 1727972140 177581 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142145&oldid=142144 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+257) 10
> 1727972163 132838 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142146&oldid=142145 5* 03Shriansh 5* (-1) 10
> 1727972201 911562 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142147&oldid=142146 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+1) 10
> 1727972469 643676 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142148&oldid=142147 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+85) 10
> 1727972500 706480 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142149&oldid=142148 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+4) 10/* Examples */
> 1727972533 125418 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142150&oldid=142149 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+51) 10/* Examples */
> 1727972571 473212 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142151&oldid=142150 5* 03Shriansh 5* (-45) 10/* Examples */
< 1727972967 318953 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
> 1727973099 27376 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142152&oldid=142151 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+20) 10
> 1727973104 583391 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Shriansh14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=142153 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+128) 10Created page with "==IDK WHO I AM BUT I AM== heheheha ==Esolangs== Beforge (this is the worst thing u will see) = https://esolangs.org/wiki/Beforge"
> 1727974046 929847 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFInfinity14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142154&oldid=140235 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+108) 10/* Commands */
< 1727974148 415937 :trumae!~Thunderbi@170.231.88.214 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1727974336 86797 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142155&oldid=142152 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+165) 10
> 1727974390 163284 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142156&oldid=142155 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+4) 10/* Examples */
< 1727974414 840688 :sam__!~sam@lullcec.org JOIN #esolangs * :sam
< 1727974437 674991 :sam__!~sam@lullcec.org NICK :Guest177
< 1727974790 315214 :Guest177!~sam@lullcec.org QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1727975361 601808 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1727975385 435309 :trumae!~Thunderbi@170.231.88.214 JOIN #esolangs trumae :trumae
> 1727975419 797770 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142157&oldid=142156 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+31) 10
> 1727975440 433031 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142158&oldid=142157 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+17) 10
> 1727975822 332129 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142159&oldid=142158 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-31) 10Why did you have to add /* Contributors */ section?
> 1727975845 419129 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142160&oldid=142159 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-5) 10/* Introduction */
> 1727975991 240572 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142161&oldid=142160 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-24) 10/* Examples */
> 1727976006 994671 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142162&oldid=142161 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-15) 10/* Introduction */
> 1727976020 79282 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142163&oldid=142162 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+0) 10/* Examples */
> 1727976083 53496 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:Two-dimensional languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142164&oldid=7847 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+23) 10
> 1727976156 149938 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142165&oldid=142163 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-5) 10
> 1727976195 837064 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142166&oldid=142165 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+1) 10/* Examples */
> 1727976295 936827 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142167&oldid=142166 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-1) 10/* Examples */
> 1727976444 335690 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142168&oldid=142167 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+25) 10/* Execute some random commands */
< 1727976607 166147 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1727977025 659361 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142169&oldid=142168 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+0) 10lowercase file extenson
> 1727977334 19554 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142170&oldid=142169 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+219) 10
> 1727977503 669311 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142171&oldid=142170 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+57) 10/* Examples */
> 1727977576 677419 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142172&oldid=142171 5* 03Shriansh 5* (+10) 10
< 1727977824 523890 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1727978366 848204 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Curly Fish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142173&oldid=142067 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+95) 10/* Movement */
< 1727978662 422183 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@123.64.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1727979089 396841 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Curly Fish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142174&oldid=142173 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+9) 10/* Syntax */
> 1727979173 131978 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Curly Fish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142175&oldid=142174 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+43) 10/* Examples */
> 1727979236 195752 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Curly Fish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142176&oldid=142175 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+97) 10/* Syntax */
> 1727979472 709610 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142177&oldid=142172 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+0) 10/* Hello World User:none1 */
< 1727980056 466052 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1727980671 208494 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LFSR CPU14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=142178 5* 03SubleqIsTheBestLeq 5* (+2277) 10Initial page
> 1727980855 874580 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142179&oldid=142001 5* 03SubleqIsTheBestLeq 5* (+15) 10/* L */ Added LFSR CPU
> 1727981005 483297 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142180&oldid=139388 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+40) 10/* Interpreter */
< 1727981513 811617 :trumae!~Thunderbi@170.231.88.214 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1727982416 490086 :visilii!~visilii@46.61.242.109 JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in
> 1727984930 457717 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Autoconfirmed users14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142181&oldid=142090 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10Fix time
> 1727985114 481952 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LFSR CPU14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142182&oldid=142178 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+127) 10Formatting, categories
> 1727985451 469323 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beforge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142183&oldid=142177 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+66) 10Categories, misc.
> 1727985570 593268 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:XKCD Random Number14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142184&oldid=142052 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-3) 10Formatting
> 1727985719 587519 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Poetic LOLWICNETP14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142185&oldid=142122 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+101) 10Categories
> 1727985762 478438 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Lol waht i cant edit talk pages14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142186&oldid=142139 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+39) 10See also
> 1727988497 364460 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07C-like language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142187&oldid=141874 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+11) 10/* Name */
> 1727988604 719207 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142188&oldid=139811 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-4) 10/* Syntax */
> 1727988785 435736 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=142189&oldid=142188 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-206) 10/* Syntax */
< 1727989830 426628 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1727990554 184643 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org JOIN #esolangs leah2 :Leah Neukirchen
< 1727991033 816803 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1727991035 444685 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Client Quit
< 1727991096 433998 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1727992297 173298 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Good Night!
< 1727992456 881243 :trumae!~Thunderbi@170.231.88.214 JOIN #esolangs trumae :trumae
< 1727993195 259257 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1727994652 127474 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1727995619 390003 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@123.64.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale