> 1728865103 692341 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UserScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143382&oldid=68269 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+82) 10Categories < 1728865442 940213 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just came across this BF Joust match, which is a thing of beauty (view on tape length 17, normal polarity): http://zem.fi/bfjoust/game/#joust,Lymia.nyuroki2,quintopia.space_elevator,12b39bb < 1728865482 140231 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :does zem.fi's BF Joust viewer let you permalink to a particular tape length and polarity? I tried to figure it out from the source code but wasn't successful, it looks like there's some leftover code which might or might not be possible to trigger < 1728866498 32901 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement < 1728866733 431586 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname > 1728867332 654096 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07514]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143383&oldid=143224 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+31) 10 > 1728867848 301410 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:'Python' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143384&oldid=136839 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+306) 10 < 1728870147 321482 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 JOIN #esolangs salpynx :[https://web.libera.chat] salpynx < 1728870182 885891 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :!ztest idk-9 >>>--...++<<.-++[(-+)*3.[+](-)*19][-]<++[+][-] < 1728870183 808549 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :salpynx.idk-9: points -9.00, score 6.80, rank 47/47 < 1728870499 240341 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i don't get how the 'points' and 'score' relate to the rankings at http://zem.fi/bfjoust/scores/  -- I was trying to maximise points, and get more than some of the lowest entries, but 'score' is not listed on the page... < 1728870513 201910 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :... unless score = Markov? < 1728870544 111319 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :!zjoust idk-9 >>>--...++<<.-++[(-+)*3.[+](-)*19][-]<++[+][-] < 1728870545 210641 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :salpynx.idk-9: points -9.00, score 6.80, rank 47/47 < 1728870634 920204 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :confirmed, score is labelled as 'Markov' on the leaderboard. < 1728871129 544332 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Where is the current points system explained? Talk:BF_Joust has discussion about multiple alternate points systems. It seems like the Markov score is the value that counts. < 1728872484 402206 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@89.214.122.111 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale < 1728872750 814147 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, 'score' in that is referring to Markov, because it's "the" scoring algorithm for that particular hill. < 1728872823 298159 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Points should be the p_a value from http://zem.fi/bfjoust/internals/ if it's working as intended. < 1728872845 743218 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(And score the s_a value for "Markov scoring".) < 1728872905 624926 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :In retrospect, "internals" is a pretty bad title for that page... but "scores" was already taken for the score table. < 1728873263 431664 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Thank you, those are the details and definitions I was looking for < 1728873637 661585 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Yeah, I don't think that particular functionality works. It's basically the old EgoJSout viewer with minimal patches to make it fetch the zem.fi hill programs. The "old egojsout autorun" expects the program text to be in the URL query parameters, and anyway I could not get it to work out right. < 1728873669 629589 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :For the "native" permalinks, those are using window.location rather than window.query, and parse a Git-based reference to a program. < 1728873822 668658 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess it shouldn't be particularly hard to add an optional thing to it that, when present, causes it to auto-trigger the full run and then open a particular tape-polarity setting. But it's not there right now. < 1728877515 337819 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW < 1728877845 80686 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1728877845 458310 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1728877926 117414 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1728879294 921187 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :!ztest synanceia >(-)*10<...+[[+.-]] < 1728879295 447501 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :salpynx.synanceia: points -6.98, score 13.21, rank 45/47 < 1728879335 859442 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :!zjoust synanceia >(-)*10<...+[[+.-]] < 1728879336 617563 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :salpynx.synanceia: points -6.98, score 13.21, rank 45/47 < 1728879537 476089 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523.stealth2 is now "13.37", which was a stretch goal of my entry, but couldn't make the last 0.16 < 1728881255 688044 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"normal polarity" => I have the feeling that while it's well-known that the polarities are called "sieve" and "kettle', almost nobody knows which one is which, because that's not documented on the wiki. (I don't know either.) < 1728882635 683747 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sieve is the one where the programs are left at their normla polarity, but I don't really like the terminology – it doesn't make any sense and was probably created as a joke < 1728882832 984254 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it may originally have been a forced meme? and those have a tendency to not be funny < 1728883029 17988 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :!ztest 1337 ...>(+--)*13(-+-)*37<-[[-.+]] < 1728883029 553773 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :salpynx.1337: points -6.38, score 13.37, rank 45/47 < 1728883059 185105 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :!zjoust 1337 ...>(+--)*13(-+-)*37<-[[-.+]] < 1728883059 936211 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :salpynx.1337: points -6.38, score 13.37, rank 45/47 < 1728883320 2128 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(-.+.)*-1 (which is effectively what your code does – the loop only breaks if the flag is zero for two cycles, and at that point you lose anyway) is a bit strange as a shudder algorithm, It can occasionally lock clear loops but seems much less likely to do that than the alternatives, and it can't vibrate because it can't safely use 0 as a value it changes the flag to < 1728883476 409291 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :on a side note, a fun fact: ash is intentionally designed to not special-case against any program; an earlier version happened to hit a really fortuitous timing matchup against nyuroki2 and beat it, and I intentionally changed it to be something that would work better against general programs but worse against nyuroki2, and that's the reason it loses to it rather than beats it < 1728883565 185593 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(this is partly because I was wondering whether Sookie – which appears to have been generated by a computer search – could work despite the apparent overfitting) < 1728883805 580927 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1728883931 417080 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I hadn't read up on strategies, but I was trying for a chameleon-like "Vibrator" strategy, to be as minimal as possible and avoid detection to let the opponent not detect me. Most of the changes I made to the code seemed to having timing sync / effects. < 1728884077 169284 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :try (++--)*-1 as the final loop rather than [[-.+]] – it's effectively the same idea but works on twice as many relative timings and doesn't lose on a zeroed flag < 1728884122 879580 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is almost always wrong to test your own flag for zeroness – if the test determines it was zero, then you spent the cycle not changing it away from zero and have probably lost < 1728884305 600519 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1728884338 315873 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1728884450 318502 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, that makes sense... there should be a way to optimise that. thx, I'll try your suggestion, is that effectively an unconditional loop? < 1728885361 877681 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :`wisdom terrible < 1728885365 258402 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's not wise. < 1728885461 611668 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :`? Gregor < 1728885463 515480 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible. < 1728885469 916368 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've forgotten how to search wisdom, I guess. < 1728885487 671015 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i got an horrible terrible eoslang idea < 1728885492 262433 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*esolang < 1728885742 121917 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1728885898 182082 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :an esolang where you can redefine the numbers in this: < 1728886265 745787 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :uid=501(gilbert) gid=20(staff) groups=20(staff),12(everyone),61(localaccounts),79(_appserverusr),80(admin),81(_appserveradm),98(_lpadmin),701(com.apple.sharepoint.group.1),33(_appstore),100(_lpoperator),204(_developer),250(_analyticsusers),395(com.apple.access_ftp),398(com.apple.access_screensharing),399(com.apple.access_ssh) < 1728886426 701289 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like on high serria 10.13.6 < 1728886431 356142 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and like it runs something < 1728886438 191131 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it extracts all information generated < 1728886829 297715 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like it runs command /bin/bash -c "$(curl -fsSL https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/HEAD/install.sh)" < 1728887657 360256 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1728889014 526190 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1728889094 897376 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1728893116 430816 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :" I've forgotten how to search wisdom, I guess. / uid=501(gilbert) gid=20(staff) groups=20(staff),12(everyone),61(localaccounts),79(_appserverusr),80(admin),81(_appserveradm)" => hehe, that's a brilliant misleading hint. actually `w does NOT search in wisdom, it only retrieves the wisdom entry by key, while `' searches < 1728893145 208879 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what < 1728893146 742137 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(yes, I know that's the output of id, not w) < 1728893149 811648 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im so confused < 1728893176 378861 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: you should be, because that's probably unintentionally humorous < 1728893196 263731 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :basically HackEso commands override a few well-known unix commands, such as paste, w, whoami < 1728893213 718545 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice < 1728893225 919048 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with unrelated commands I mean < 1728893237 574473 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(ls and sed are overrided with related but worse commands) < 1728893245 961614 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok < 1728893329 608515 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh yeah, ping is shadowed by something unrelated too < 1728893380 53022 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :paste is the one that bothers me because the other shadowed ones wouldn't be too useful on HackEso < 1728893412 355399 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :btw fizzie the HackEso web interfaces are giving an 502 error again < 1728893588 262698 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :should i make the esolang? < 1728893618 983496 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :``` cd /hackenv/bin; for f in *; do type -ap "$f" | grep -qv "^/hackenv/" && echo "$f"; done < 1728893629 647929 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and if i do what should i name it? < 1728893642 448802 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :cc \ dc \ edit \ guile \ hd \ js \ ls \ man \ paste \ sed \ test \ uptime \ w \ wget \ whatis \ whoami > 1728894059 729774 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Emit14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143385 5* 03Iddi01 5* (+4225) 10I did it (lots of categories in a single language) in an honest way, unlike [[Categorial]] < 1728894485 327545 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@89.214.122.111 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1728894572 96371 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Emit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143386&oldid=143385 5* 03Iddi01 5* (+23) 10/* The real impressive part */ I just knew i will forget something > 1728894973 453522 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/PSTF Again1314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143387&oldid=143282 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+31) 10 > 1728895229 998442 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Iddi0114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143388&oldid=142728 5* 03Iddi01 5* (+40) 10[[emit]]; added implementation notice > 1728895877 984479 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143389&oldid=143097 5* 03Iddi01 5* (+11) 10/* E */ [[emit]] > 1728896552 822280 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/Mihai Again1014]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143390 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+2323) 10Created page with "[[Translated ORK/PSTF Again13|Warning: Wrong MS-DOS version, j7`fvG#}oc?cQ\p]/={7`8n)N`FO,CA{?miM"jw]] 1. Take this crappy and shit program that is uG6@.j 2M=lDbA=xoOMOx[Z 
 Do you mind, Carlsbe..."
> 1728896642 679038 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143391&oldid=143287 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+67) 10/* Horribly translated variants */
> 1728897095 663467 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Main Page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143392&oldid=142799 5* 03Iddi01 5* (+621) 10/* Someone should change the featured language. */ I know how to fix it
< 1728898440 614321 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown
< 1728898442 448747 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1728898946 728759 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Let's see, it's complaining about the /var/run vs. /run thing in the journal for the socket activation thing.
< 1728898957 393042 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@89.214.122.111 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
< 1728899606 862027 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Okay, now the socket activation thing got it started, hopefully this time it stays up too.
< 1728899891 327581 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@89.214.122.111 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
> 1728901503 529244 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ironlang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143393&oldid=138773 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+25) 10
> 1728901658 347637 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Froginstarch 5*  10moved [[02Ironlang10]] to [[Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)]]: Rename
< 1728901875 580435 :tetsuo-cpp!uid672509@id-672509.hampstead.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs tetsuo-cpp :tetsuo-cpp
> 1728904199 189804 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143396&oldid=140220 5* 03None1 5* (+404) 10/* Help me interpret this */
> 1728904253 812721 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143397&oldid=143394 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (-1076) 10/* Instructions */
> 1728905920 562627 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143398&oldid=143397 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (-13) 10
> 1728905944 120480 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143399&oldid=143398 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+2) 10
< 1728905961 403099 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1728905964 811486 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143400&oldid=143399 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+13) 10
> 1728906132 452174 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143401&oldid=143400 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (-3) 10/* Instructions */
> 1728906495 588903 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143402&oldid=143401 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (-6) 10/* Instructions */
> 1728907043 154738 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143403&oldid=143402 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+50) 10/* Instructions */
> 1728907148 866877 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143404&oldid=143403 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+83) 10/* Instructions */
> 1728907238 827252 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143405&oldid=143404 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+69) 10
> 1728907345 488444 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143406&oldid=143405 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+41) 10
> 1728907380 343238 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated FLOLCODE14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143407 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+1226) 10Created page with "'''Translated FLOLCODE''' is [[FLOLCODE]] but horribly translated with the weirdest language Baidu can translate.  1. Take this example: 
 HI, VERSION 1.3 COMMENT since FLOLCODE doesn't have input, we just use this variable as input I HAVE A input IT'S 
> 1728907409 785995 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143408&oldid=143406 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+30) 10
> 1728907413 145553 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143409&oldid=143391 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+72) 10/* Horribly translated variants */
> 1728907580 688942 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143410&oldid=143408 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+64) 10
> 1728907629 517432 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143411&oldid=143410 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+21) 10/* Hello, world! */
> 1728907644 263894 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143412&oldid=143411 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+1) 10/* Hello, world! */
> 1728907661 389746 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143413&oldid=143412 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+13) 10/* Hello, world! */
> 1728907788 766608 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143414&oldid=143413 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+49) 10/* Instructions */
> 1728907809 606155 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Froginstarch 5*  10moved [[02Stack Manipulation Lang (SML)10]] to [[SML]]: Another rename
> 1728907854 758851 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SML14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143417&oldid=143415 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+12) 10/* Instructions */
> 1728908310 734165 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SML14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143418&oldid=143417 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+30) 10
> 1728909361 9905 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143419&oldid=143396 5* 03None1 5* (+50) 10/* Help me interpret this */  add unsigned template, time adjusted from CST to UTC
> 1728909422 501950 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143420&oldid=143419 5* 03None1 5* (+0) 10/* Help me interpret this */  OMG, 17-8=11? I'm bad at arithmetic!
> 1728909535 460024 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143421&oldid=143420 5* 03None1 5* (+24) 10/* Help me interpret this */
> 1728909557 161204 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143422&oldid=143421 5* 03None1 5* (+1) 10/* Help me interpret this */
> 1728909613 939828 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143423&oldid=143117 5* 03None1 5* (+249) 10/* A shorter Quine program code in  */
> 1728910091 386064 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143424&oldid=143423 5* 03None1 5* (-31645) 10Archive the talk page, about 80000 bytes before archiving
> 1728910225 739076 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None1/Archive14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143425 5* 03None1 5* (+31644) 10Archive talk page
< 1728910251 74648 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1728910440 516509 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None1/Archive14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143426&oldid=143425 5* 03None1 5* (+101) 10
> 1728910756 770933 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143427&oldid=143424 5* 03None1 5* (+461) 10/* Timezone */
> 1728910894 535011 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143428&oldid=143427 5* 03None1 5* (+55) 10/* Timezone */
> 1728911007 186347 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RaiseAfloppaFan392514]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143429 5* 03RaiseAfloppaFan3925 5* (+132) 10Created page with "Hi I am RaiseAfloppaFan3925, I am a hobbyist programmer and I like esoteric languages.  anyways how do i make a page for an esolang?"
> 1728911338 78591 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RaiseAfloppaFan392514]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143430&oldid=143429 5* 03RaiseAfloppaFan3925 5* (+154) 10
> 1728911685 875078 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143431&oldid=143428 5* 03None1 5* (+106) 10/* Timezone */
> 1728911985 986730 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143432&oldid=143431 5* 03None1 5* (-40556) 10Archive talk page
> 1728912003 767933 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143433&oldid=143432 5* 03None1 5* (+40556) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/143432|143432]] by [[Special:Contributions/None1|None1]] ([[User talk:None1|talk]])
> 1728912067 162489 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143434&oldid=143433 5* 03None1 5* (-29036) 10/* Can brainfuck output the Chinese Character? */  Archive talk page
> 1728912662 672200 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143435&oldid=143434 5* 03None1 5* (+29036) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/143434|143434]] by [[Special:Contributions/None1|None1]] ([[User talk:None1|talk]]) Exceeds my mobile phone's fking copying character count limit, archiving little by little then
< 1728912674 322033 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
> 1728912696 659028 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143436&oldid=143435 5* 03None1 5* (-8781) 10/* Can brainfuck output the Chinese Character? */
> 1728912739 564822 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None1/Archive214]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143437 5* 03None1 5* (+8781) 10Created page with "== Can brainfuck output the Chinese Character? ==  Will this script work?  
 ++++++++[>++++>++++++>++++++++>++++++++++>++++++++++++<<<<<-]> >>>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 1728912779 893968 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143438&oldid=143249 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+527) 10
> 1728912819 79078 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None1/Archive214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143439&oldid=143437 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+7) 10
< 1728912822 487764 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1728912833 976574 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143440&oldid=143436 5* 03None1 5* (-20255) 10Archive
> 1728912900 274894 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None1/Archive214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143441&oldid=143439 5* 03None1 5* (+20247) 10Archive finished
> 1728913068 299024 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None1/Archive214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143442&oldid=143441 5* 03None1 5* (+136) 10
> 1728913261 180551 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SML14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143443&oldid=143418 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+7) 10
> 1728913368 540299 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143444&oldid=143440 5* 03None1 5* (+204) 10
> 1728913484 370570 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143445&oldid=143444 5* 03None1 5* (+206) 10/* Archiving talk page */
> 1728913583 14069 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143446&oldid=143445 5* 03None1 5* (-1) 10/* Archiving talk page */
> 1728913969 552284 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07RiLOLCODE14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143447 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+11274) 10Created page with "RiLOLCODE is designed by PSTF. It is [[LOLCODE]] but even more formal than [[FLOLCODE]] by mihai Popa.  == Keywords == These are the main keywords. All LOLCODE keywords are written in uppercase.  {| class="wikitable plainpres" width="80%" ! Code ! Comment |- | 
> 1728914030 451351 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143448&oldid=142134 5* 03None1 5* (+500) 10/* Delete an image */ new section
< 1728914227 767001 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1728914591 587113 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/PSTF Again1414]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143449 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+2253) 10Created page with "[[Translated ORK/Mihai Again10|Warning: Wrong MS-DOS version, ??'?mmL?k?f`3#p(}q??I??AS?ZGA#?+5fb0.O[gX{x]]  1. Take..."
> 1728914620 825729 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/Mihai Again1014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143450&oldid=143390 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+30) 10
> 1728914749 821955 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143451&oldid=143409 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+500) 10
> 1728914882 259361 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0725 bytes o:14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143452&oldid=136738 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (-68) 10Fixed interpreter
< 1728915026 665186 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1728915416 476946 :fowl!~fowl@user/fowl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1728915473 73447 :fowl!~fowl@user/fowl JOIN #esolangs fowl :fowl
> 1728915569 900996 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143453 5* 03None1 5* (+5626) 10Created page with " or LLOLCODE is an esolang invented by [[User:None1]] and inspired by [[RiLOLCODE]] which is inspired by [[FLOLCODE]] which is inspired by [[LOLCODE]], but...in Classical Chinese.  == Keywords == WIP  These are the main keywords. All LOLCODE keywords are written in uppercase.  {
> 1728915613 714560 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143454&oldid=143453 5* 03None1 5* (-18) 10
> 1728915854 14412 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143455&oldid=143454 5* 03None1 5* (-81) 10/* Keywords */
> 1728916063 299494 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143456&oldid=143455 5* 03None1 5* (-15) 10
> 1728916315 932004 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143457&oldid=143456 5* 03None1 5* (+88) 10/* Keywords */
> 1728916375 891475 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143458&oldid=143457 5* 03None1 5* (+1) 10/* Keywords */
> 1728916666 419345 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:MihaiEso14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143459&oldid=143181 5* 03None1 5* (+349) 10/* My all Esolangs are designed by ONLY myself until now. */
> 1728916794 85676 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143460&oldid=143458 5* 03None1 5* (+0) 10
> 1728916860 117750 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143461&oldid=143460 5* 03None1 5* (-4) 10/* Keywords */
> 1728917017 998126 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/PSTF Again1414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143462&oldid=143449 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+31) 10
> 1728917115 271634 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143463&oldid=143461 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (-74) 10
> 1728917221 786099 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143464&oldid=143463 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+5) 10
< 1728917347 434481 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname
> 1728917718 470801 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143465&oldid=143464 5* 03None1 5* (-3) 10/* Keywords */
> 1728917802 341510 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143466&oldid=143465 5* 03None1 5* (-8) 10/* Keywords */
> 1728917846 51340 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143467&oldid=143466 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+5164) 10
> 1728917893 511494 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/Mihai Again1114]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143468 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+2320) 10Created page with "[[Translated ORK/PSTF Again14|Warning: Linux system is corrupted!!p%x\lLg6OI3eL<(2?JE;~nxSWDYgw]]  1. Take this already *o2[i6Y9G>YaAefD^SVzi program 
 no Not inspecting the border, _Continuing with it 
> 1728917899 233991 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143469&oldid=143467 5* 03None1 5* (+3) 10
> 1728917942 263906 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143470&oldid=143469 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+16) 10
> 1728917942 692394 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143471&oldid=143451 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+69) 10/* Horribly translated variants */
> 1728917962 725597 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143472&oldid=143470 5* 03None1 5* (+1) 10/* Keywords */
< 1728918028 21041 :fowl!~fowl@user/fowl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1728918086 630663 :fowl!~fowl@user/fowl JOIN #esolangs fowl :fowl
> 1728918752 798518 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143473&oldid=143189 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (-46) 10
< 1728919504 75434 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: But `' searches quotes, not wisdom.
> 1728920703 376677 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:RaiseAfloppaFan392514]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143474 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+306) 10Created page with "Simple. Just search up your esolangs name in the search bar and click the red link (or a link to a page that doesn't exist) bellow the search bar~~~"
> 1728922011 825732 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02File:Help me interpret this.png10]]": Copyright violation: apparently not created by the uploader, thus copyrighted by default by whoever made it
> 1728922027 48944 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143475&oldid=143448 5* 03Ais523 5* (+159) 10/* Delete an image */ deleted
< 1728922271 321367 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
> 1728922314 857006 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:RaiseAfloppaFan392514]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143476&oldid=143474 5* 03Ais523 5* (+411) 10maybe the rules for creating an esolang page should be more obvious
< 1728922514 380615 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: There are only three UNIX languages: shell, sed, and awk. Supposedly C is a languag too, but I'm skeptical~
< 1728922537 433448 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :shell is the GOAT
< 1728922537 611602 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I suppose I'd ask why languages are supposed to be the way to get things done. Normally, to get things done, we need a *program*, not a *language*.
< 1728922616 770641 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :shell is awful, but it's UNIX's way of composing multiple programs into a single pipeline-program.
< 1728922839 498043 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Like, check out this famous awk program: https://gist.github.com/trauber/4955706 It turns any document-oriented language into a literate-programming language.
< 1728922856 796675 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am curious as to what it looks like in shell, but I bet it's not short.
< 1728923546 127792 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :HOW CAN I DO THAT
< 1728923547 441228 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :WTF
< 1728923649 732514 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, first, it helps to know how awk works. awk is best when operating as a line-oriented stream editor: it edits a stream, not a document, and it edits each line individually.
< 1728923676 829062 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :okok
< 1728923678 93052 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The entire program is two clauses. awk will evaluate both clauses for each line.
< 1728923684 80108 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1728923724 198884 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :My quote marks are ''. The first clause is 'if (/^```/) { i++; next }'. This says that, if a line starts with '```' then increment the variable i and go to the next line.
< 1728923755 268819 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The second clause is 'if ( i % 2 == 1) { print }'. This says that, if the variable i is odd (as opposed to even), then print the current line.
< 1728923773 959804 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1728923776 106805 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how does that
< 1728923777 534125 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :make it
< 1728923780 419132 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So the effect is to repeatedly switch i between odd and even every time we see a '```', and to only print when we're outside of them.
< 1728923783 436702 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :literate
< 1728923858 660380 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Good question. When we build a project, we can name all of our source files something like .ext.md instead of the original .ext, and use this script to generate .ext files for the compiler.
< 1728923889 232142 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Here's some literate [[Monte]]: https://github.com/monte-language/typhon/blob/master/mast/lib/egg.mt.md GitHub renders it in a reasonably pretty way, and it can be read by the Monte compiler too.
< 1728923990 465080 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: You could also think of this awk program as like a tiny compiler. It compiles from literate Monte to Monte, or literate C to C, or etc. Sometimes folks will insist that this is a "translator" or "transpiler" instead; same thing.
< 1728924004 677147 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1728924040 612994 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Or are you asking what literate programming is? You might not have seen it before.
< 1728924054 268123 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i havent
< 1728924063 804139 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but also i was confused how it was possible
< 1728924074 877480 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
< 1728924079 984027 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cant you reverse the process?
< 1728924088 933226 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :No worries. The idea behind literate programming is to make a book that can also be compiled and run on a computer.
< 1728924112 487863 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It was invented by a guy named Knuth who has spent his life writing that sort of book.
< 1728924121 391712 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's not really reversible, no. The Markdown is all thrown away.
< 1728924128 387973 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1728924310 941090 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Maybe this helps give some perspective for how big/deep a language can get. For popular languages that people use at work, there are hundreds of books each explaining people's opinions on how to use the language. A language will have dialects.
< 1728924324 423657 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And even a small language might need one book just to explain what the language is and how it could be used.
< 1728924324 916467 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1728924755 196304 :spiderella!izabera@user/meow/izabera JOIN #esolangs izabera :izabera
< 1728926300 554020 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1728926430 648172 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :The book also has index and cross-references, so that if you read the book you can find where a name or something else is referenced and is defined. (Index entries can be generated automatically but can also be specified manually in the program, e.g. for error messages and other stuff that are not directly parts of the program code.)
< 1728926485 556252 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1728926871 858333 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: Great point. And Knuth's style of literate programming also included *tangling*, which allows a program to be defined out-of-order by reordering blocks of code and text.
< 1728926956 328322 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes
< 1728927737 342926 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1728929180 395242 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@89.214.112.14 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
> 1728929441 315531 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143477&oldid=143475 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+193) 10/* Delete an image */
< 1728929508 690029 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: oh… 
< 1728929523 179663 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess only grwp searches in wisdom then?
< 1728929885 375352 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: tangentially related, do we have any plans on how to honor the memory of Ken Iverson? the tenth anniversary of his death is coming up.
< 1728929953 496946 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, I'm stupid. the *twentieth* anniversary of his death is coming up
< 1728929956 27232 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I'm not very plugged into the community. Maybe moonchild knows?
< 1728929962 482059 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how has it been so long?
< 1728930205 329178 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1728931969 793947 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1728932399 535365 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@89.214.112.14 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1728932887 624451 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Snakel (Ractangle)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143478&oldid=143371 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+21) 10/* Syntax */
> 1728932953 393540 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Snakel (Ractangle)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143479&oldid=143478 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+48) 10/* Syntax */
> 1728932963 357506 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Snakel (Ractangle)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143480&oldid=143479 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+0) 10/* Syntax */
< 1728935521 476529 :trumae!~Thunderbi@170.231.88.147 JOIN #esolangs trumae :trumae
< 1728935915 448909 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had heard of "Iverson bracket"
< 1728936776 279120 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 JOIN #esolangs salpynx :realname
< 1728936965 610054 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523 (bfjoust) I can't remove the inner loop without hurting the performance against the current hill. [[-.+]] _is_ equivalent to (.[-.+])*-1 , but
< 1728937018 937049 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :delay is important. The outer loop is meant to be unconditional and endless. The inner loop apparently needs to be conditional to perform as well as it does.
< 1728937034 984412 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :mostly .-.+ , but occasionally just . (the failed test delay). It must be relying on the opponent to increment its flag at that point.
< 1728937063 21671 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :My 2 entries seem to do well because they happen to be decently competitive in the lower half of the hill, but somehow manage to _always_ win against 2nd and 3rd place (ais523_impatience and Lymia.nyuroki2), which boosts its score.
< 1728937106 938303 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :When creating it, it did feel like I was playing the current hill, rather than the game itself.
< 1728937137 683170 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am surprised that there aren't other defense-only strategies on the hill, which would necessarily draw with mine every time.
< 1728937149 529429 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :quintopia.space_elevator draws, but that seems to be a coinicidence, with 2 clear wins each, and the rest drawn matches.
< 1728937339 923841 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just confirmed my code doesn't loose against noops (had to check)
< 1728937756 372572 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :correction, mine doesn't _always_ win against 2 and 3, nyuroki2 is especially weak against mine (only wins once), _impatience wins 4, draws 4 out of 21 (polarity makes no diff)
< 1728937951 943700 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :uh, nyuroki2 only ever _draws_ against mine, once or twice, depending on the version
> 1728938945 127732 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SML14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143481&oldid=143443 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+6) 10/* Instructions */ Formatting
< 1728939659 982812 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1728942057 547397 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Oh, grwp, that sounds right.
< 1728943333 148556 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1728943349 126036 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :salpynx: so nyuroki2's anti-shudder code is slightly broken, which I discovered while testing ash
< 1728943363 98348 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you probably happen to have hit the exact timing at which it breaks
< 1728943442 975308 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :impatience losing to it is not that surprising, it gains extra speed by assuming that the opponent is not a shudder program unless it happens to notice it adjust the cell it's clearing away from 0
< 1728943540 595525 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, there are quite a few "primary defence" programs on the hill, but almost all of them have a timer to switch to a different strategy if the opponent seems to be doing nothing – it is a good way to improve your matchup against other primary defence programs, because if the opponents' timer expires first, they will be coming at you with the most hateful anti-defensive clear their author could imagine
< 1728944299 738591 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(where by "hateful" I mean "tuned specifically to beat a particular strategy grouping")
< 1728944502 996909 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :margins3 against synanceia is a good example : it spends a lot of time passively defending, and then when it realises your program is entirely passive (a little after halfway through the match), sets a size-128 decoy on every tape cell and then does a clear designed to beat defensive locks
< 1728944977 99245 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is there a match viewer animation to see that in action, or are you describing how you know margins3 works?
< 1728944987 597498 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I linked the match viewer
< 1728945008 162164 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but I used my knowledge of margins3 to pick the right program to show)
< 1728945013 50499 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :choose any tape length other than the really short ones
< 1728945023 21119 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and you'll see it in action
< 1728945035 812599 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1728945042 627380 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I picked 23 but don't think it matters much
< 1728945089 613210 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :haha, I've been looking at those match pages a lot lately and had no idea I could click on one of the symbols to see the match!
< 1728945118 757286 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess the only clue is that they are blue, which is a common link color
< 1728945124 599061 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :... the rabbit hole just got a _lot_ deeper
< 1728945155 627733 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :clicking on ties is usually not recommended, today's computers can handle them just about, but it uses a lot of CPU and memory
< 1728945216 368434 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so how does BFJoust hill ethics work? is it fair to submit a program that you specifically tuned against the current hill members, and ais523 is trying not to do that only for an extra challenge?
< 1728945228 144352 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I mean the specific programs, not just against the general strategies
< 1728945283 445833 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: tuning specifically for the current hill is generally accepted, and fairly easy to do by accident due to overfitting during your testing
< 1728945315 748573 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but, programs that don't do it tend to survive longer, because they are more likely to work against future programs if they don't overfit to the current programs
< 1728945331 315210 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that makes sense
< 1728945389 911846 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :very interesting, you can see both margin3 and synanceia using the ~10 minimum length to change their behaviour, I 'found' 10, but was aware that it's the minimum tape length. Spending more time than that before getting into the main shudder loop generally hurt the score
< 1728945486 481173 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the whole idea of margins is to win on short tapes and draw the rest, there is a lot of special-casing for short tapes and for particular short-tape lengths
> 1728945540 547421 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BF Joust strategies14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143482&oldid=143322 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1437) 10/* Defense */ mention breaking out of a passive defence if the opponent is also passive
< 1728945607 412647 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I understand now why even though I intended a Vibrator at first, spending time zeroing my own flag wasted time better spent on setting up some kind of nearby decoy (generally a net +ve while the opponent might be traveling) The main successful tactic is its Shudder loop, presumably synanceia is as tight as it can get
< 1728945689 828114 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am not sure anyone really understands what the best way to do decoys is – it seems to depend a lot on the other details of your program
< 1728945727 89868 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :originally I thought I could zero fast with wrapping, but it doesn't work like that (probably a good thing), there are only two states of interest, 0 and non-zero, and it takes to long to determine anything more about non-zero states
< 1728945770 187638 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, that's the entire point of the game
< 1728945796 38053 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for impatience, I started by copying the decoy setup of monolith because their clear loops have similar goals, and only modified it slightly
< 1728945798 281209 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :experimentally I found adding something within one or two cells was likely to have a net positive effect, but travelling further always did worse (for my simple defense strategy) 
< 1728945825 258625 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have also discovered that helps
< 1728945857 97648 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am confused the most when it comes to omnipotence, which specifically wants the opponent on its flag early, and yet setting a single small decoy helped and I am not sure why
< 1728945883 995468 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :... I was base-lining my performance on noops and active self-destruction to get something very minimal and simple that did ok against the hill
< 1728946005 970510 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess omnipotence doesn't actively *need* the opponent to clear its flag
< 1728946046 610606 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it may help against opponents that start by clearing the first nonzero cell they see, then do something else
< 1728946322 939652 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, the omnipotence vs. synanceia is weird, it alternately attacks itself, and its eventual losing seems like it could have gone either way
< 1728947027 942823 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :watching the match animations I now understand that a lot of behaviour loops are hard coded -- I was trying to figure out how nyuroki2 knew to "give up" on its unsuccessful attack... it must just repeat a hardcoded n times
< 1728947064 824424 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I thought more complex progams might be using cells for data storgage, but that seems impossible / too risky
< 1728947092 225560 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :only a very few programs do that
< 1728947097 358592 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although ash does
< 1728947133 116002 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you normally need to lock the opponent first to stop them disturbing the cells, and generally only use cells behind where you think the opponent is
< 1728947149 888463 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's much more common to use run-length-encoded hardcoded code
> 1728947169 531753 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143483&oldid=143477 5* 03None1 5* (+245) 10/* Delete an image */
< 1728947172 846177 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you need, say, 1000 nested loops, there's an abbreviation for that
< 1728947180 380667 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :... which explains the new ()* notation
> 1728947202 13317 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143484&oldid=143483 5* 03None1 5* (+3) 10/* Delete an image */
< 1728947254 97978 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have been recently considering writing a BF-Joust-like language that doesn't need the abbreviations and can use short programs, but is still limited enough to make it possible to exploit the opponent's control flow
< 1728947265 851213 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it also explains how some things can clearly misfire if expectations are met, like probably why margins3 spends half its time attacking itself :)
< 1728947274 873655 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :are _not_ met
< 1728947319 980094 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it isn't really attacking itself, it is trying to lock the opponent's clear loop
< 1728947333 394251 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I remember playing core wars and IIRC that was fun because you could inject and alter the opposing players code
< 1728947337 181474 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i.e. it is assuming the opponent is attacking and trying to make it hard for them to move on to the next cell
< 1728947492 413491 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :re ethics and exploits, I notice there are 2 copies of mroman.cupnoodle on the hill, I'm sure it's not meant to be an exploit, but it takes up 2 slots on the hill. Identical variations on a winning program could fill the hill, if one were unscrupulous...
> 1728947598 210582 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143485&oldid=143484 5* 03None1 5* (+390) 10/*  */
< 1728947662 790487 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aha, "lock the opponent's clear loop" yes, that is probably a decent assumption in the game: that your opponent is at your flag trying to destroy it. I'm thinking like a plant lol
< 1728947817 915952 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1728947874 835500 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I could probably arrange for one of the cupnoodles to go away, I don't think that was intentional, just a side effect of not being able to remove a program without being able to get a particular nickname.
< 1728947902 786047 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(The traditional way of "removing" a program is to submit a `<`, but that requires having the same nickname.)
> 1728948535 190345 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03She.the.people 5*  10New user account
> 1728948818 977374 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143486&oldid=143376 5* 03She.the.people 5* (+151) 10me >v<
< 1728949338 358816 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1728950133 738242 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: I think removing one cupnoodle would be good. It's hard getting on the hill at all, freeing up a slot would help. I think there wil lalways be a bit of rotation at the lower ranks based on happening to do ok against the current hill, but ais532 is right that genuinely good strategies will rise to the top
< 1728950192 541520 :salpynx!~salpynx@161.29.22.222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or genuinely good players with a range of general purpose strategies will rise