< 1757809615 902834 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f91c:d27d:e5a1:1629 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1757809644 513708 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f91c:d27d:e5a1:1629 QUIT :Client Quit < 1757810304 402452 :amby!~ambylastn@host-78-151-28-204.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1757810307 227540 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Game:Esochain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164610&oldid=164584 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+32) 10 > 1757812487 701822 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Collern14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164611&oldid=164486 5* 03Dmiz 5* (+47) 10 < 1757815502 944413 :op_4!~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1757815532 574764 :op_4!~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473 JOIN #esolangs op_4 :op_4 > 1757818763 245040 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create210 02 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* 10created new account User:CollaborativePL: This account is used just for making a new language. > 1757818854 115273 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:CollaborativePL14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164612 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+142) 10Created page with "This user is created for an User-edited language. Everyone are allowed to join! = Category = [[Category:Languages]] [[Category:User Edited]]" > 1757819535 115154 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deep14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164613&oldid=164601 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+198) 10 < 1757821134 210141 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1757830264 740918 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1757830282 118108 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1757832733 582797 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hello, World! < 1757834283 211599 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f91c:d27d:e5a1:1629 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1757835635 730950 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f91c:d27d:e5a1:1629 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1757836231 91401 :Uni!~Uni@2600:1004:b0bd:c3d3:acd8:2939:745c:fd8a JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Uni < 1757836320 534405 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f91c:d27d:e5a1:1629 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1757836390 801043 :Uni!~Uni@2600:1004:b0bd:c3d3:acd8:2939:745c:fd8a QUIT :Client Quit < 1757837118 273358 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION wonders whether the world ever says hello back
< 1757837593 263531 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f91c:d27d:e5a1:1629 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1757837750 343257 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f91c:d27d:e5a1:1629 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1757837807 822694 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1757837842 738868 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1757837946 496520 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`hello U < 1757837947 932430 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hello, World! < 1757838463 264611 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f91c:d27d:e5a1:1629 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1757839961 678032 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if I'm documenting an interface like a file format or network protocol, and I have a field reserved for the future that must be written as zero, what's a good way to distinguish in the documentation whether the reader must verify that the field value is zero and nonzero should give an error that you don't support the file, versus when the reader should ignore the field because it's reserved for a hint < 1757839968 146327 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that you can ignore in a backwards compatible way < 1757841570 315250 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: prose, perhaps? well, or something like "(must be 0)" next to it, but I'd probably still add some prose suggesting it _should_ be checked in that case < 1757841609 4843 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :below the structure that contains it, probably (presuming this is in some kind of header) < 1757843206 224111 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I like the word "essential" as a method of describing the case where the reader has to verify it (although you would need to define what that means in case the implementor doesn't know) < 1757843270 133065 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also worth noting: the problem is not so much zero/nonzero for reserved fields, but known/unknown values for fields in general (and reserved fields are a special case in which the only known value is 0) < 1757843285 790744 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION → Bathtub 😌 🐬
< 1757843450 623393 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess there's also the problem of "what nonzero values could be syntactically legal", which is probably easy to determine for a byte-based protocol where you know how many bytes the field is, but might be much harder for something with a less rigid format < 1757843479 832823 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because even if unknown values are permitted and ignored, you still need to know how to parse them > 1757845385 989493 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Three variable modification language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164614&oldid=127326 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+66) 10/* Computational Class */ > 1757845387 2391 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164615&oldid=163518 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+2263) 10 > 1757845452 989439 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Three variable modification language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164616&oldid=164614 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+39) 10 > 1757845508 412287 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:ChuckEsoteric0814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164617&oldid=164473 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+42) 10/* Turing-completness Proofs */ < 1757846657 871649 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1757846713 835141 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, it could be for something where 0 isn't the only defined value < 1757846758 761129 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and this is mostly for file formats, because in a network protocol you can often make use of interactivity, as in if you add a new feature then you define it such that the initiator can tell from the other party's response whether they support that feature < 1757848121 201787 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean, the description of the field made me think of formats with a "format version" field or similar as well < 1757848283 990524 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess another way to express it would be "the header structure might look different if (the reserved field) is nonzero", which I guess might discourage people being sloppy with checking it < 1757848357 4974 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :in my own notes when looking at file formats I often add things like "(= 0)" next to fields if they have a seemingly constant value (and if I'd be interested in cases where it doesn't hold), but that's more from a reverser's point-of-view rather than a specification's > 1757848815 737116 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Rasa8877 5* 10New user account > 1757849218 769770 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164618&oldid=164589 5* 03Rasa8877 5* (+139) 10/* Introductions */ < 1757849361 184453 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1757849415 300728 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1757849440 542796 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1757849749 641528 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see < 1757851428 643478 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : An octal constant is the same as a decimal constant except that it begins with a zero. It is then interpreted in base 8. Note that 09 (base 8) is legal and equal to 011. < 1757851450 678402 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :…does that carry like Addition Automaton, or count as two digits? < 1757851542 82313 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was considering using "C except that the only type is an int/pointer union" as a compiler backend, which is essentially B, so I thought I might as well try to learn actual B to see if it gave any inspiration < 1757851932 70962 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in general this is very like C, although one oddity is that NUL and end-of-string are different characters (the manual doesn't say how end-of-string is encoded – maybe it was an actual character in the character set of the time) > 1757851970 869831 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ThingLang14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164619 5* 03Rasa8877 5* (+2031) 10Created page with "== ThingLang == '''ThingLang''' is an esoteric programming language created by [[User:Rasa8877]] in 2025. It is designed to be playful and readable, using English-like keywords for variables, printing, functions, loops, and comments. === Overview === ThingLang us < 1757851984 16462 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and of course, not having a char type (and only being able to address at the machine word level) would mean awkward bitshifting to get at the characters of a string < 1757852001 825331 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :apparently B being bad at string handling was one of the main things that motivated the creation of C > 1757852107 232299 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164620&oldid=164581 5* 03Rasa8877 5* (+16) 10 < 1757852192 445045 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh wow, B has assigning versions of basically all the operators, e.g. x === y sets x to 1 if x and y are equal or 0 otherwise > 1757852255 381537 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164621&oldid=164620 5* 03Rasa8877 5* (+16) 10/* T */ < 1757852395 479812 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :…and it has C-style switch with jump-to-case: and fallthrough, *but* does not have a break statement – that's a nasty combination < 1757852412 304954 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think any sufficiently old language looks like an esolang if viewed through modern eyes :-D > 1757852481 153787 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Rasa887714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164622 5* 03Rasa8877 5* (+721) 10Created page with "== User:Rasa8877 == Hi! I'm Rasa8877, a developer and esolang enthusiast. I create esoteric programming languages for fun and experimentation. === About Me === - Interested in programming languages, interpreters, and esoteric languages. - Creator of the es < 1757852566 809 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :presumably you were supposed to leave using goto (in cases where return was inappropriate) < 1757852671 608962 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : (the manual doesn't say how end-of-string is encoded – maybe it was an actual character in the character set of the time) ← it does mention that it was the same character as end-of-file, though < 1757852828 634676 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : oh wow, B has assigning versions of basically all the operators, e.g. x === y sets x to 1 if x and y are equal or 0 otherwise ← "has" in that they're documented – the manual later admits that some of them, including ===, weren't actually implemented > 1757852881 657512 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Rasa887714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=164623 5* 03Rasa8877 5* (+673) 10Created page with "== Welcome to the talk page of Rasa8877! == Hi! This is the talk page for Rasa8877, creator of the esolang ThingLang. Feel free to leave messages, suggestions, questions, or comments about ThingLang or any other esolangs-related topic. === Guidelines == > 1757852993 54885 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Rasa887714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164624&oldid=164622 5* 03Rasa8877 5* (+0) 10/* About Me */ > 1757853041 838978 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Rasa887714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164625&oldid=164624 5* 03Rasa8877 5* (+0) 10/* User:Rasa8877 */ > 1757853068 234860 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Rasa887714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164626&oldid=164625 5* 03Rasa8877 5* (-2) 10/* About Me */ > 1757855230 764411 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Rasa887714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164627&oldid=164623 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+252) 10/* Collaborative programming language */ new section > 1757855257 316986 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Rasa887714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164628&oldid=164627 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+0) 10 < 1757855673 209891 :isabella!izabera@user/meow/izabera NICK :izabera < 1757856259 478925 :amby!~ambylastn@host-78-151-28-204.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1757864079 123225 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs lisbeths :lisbeths < 1757864154 261909 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1757865191 761003 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo and anyone else interested: I finished my blog post about how linear logic's ? can be used to model Rust's shared references (warning: it's very long for a blog post): http://ais523.me.uk/blog/logic-of-shared-references.html < 1757865227 96358 :DOS_User!~DOS_User@user/DOS-User:11249 JOIN #esolangs DOS_User :[https://web.libera.chat] DOS_User < 1757865269 262816 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Put on the pile, thanks. < 1757866199 856401 :DOS_User!~DOS_User@user/DOS-User:11249 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1757867739 217916 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: "C except that the only type is an int/pointer union" => isn't that the original IOCCC form of Bellard's self-hosting tiny C compiler? < 1757867851 668412 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: IIUC tcc has three different dereferencing operators: *(int *), *(char *), and *(int (*)()) < 1757867859 797003 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it can read/write characters as a built-in < 1757867880 571665 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :whereas W just has some very small library functions to read or write characters < 1757867915 927930 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it makes sense to have three separate dereferencing operators, because there's just one type, so the type can't encode what sort of pointer you want < 1757867978 556027 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :http://www.ioccc.org/2001/bellard/index.html > 1757868880 49275 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07R + S14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164629&oldid=163855 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+2) 10 > 1757868912 511529 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07R + S14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164630&oldid=164629 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+16) 10 < 1757869314 262240 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : it makes sense to have three separate dereferencing operators, because there's just one type, so the type can't encode what sort of pointer you want ← right < 1757869334 212757 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but B avoids that problem because it has just one type, so any pointer must be a pointer to that type < 1757869366 998176 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the language implicitly assumes function pointers and data pointers are the same size (and functions are always called via function pointer, which removes that ambiguity) < 1757870264 136025 :efrain!~efrain@user/efrainhj JOIN #esolangs efrainhj :efrain < 1757870800 359250 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: TCC only compiles for one architecture as target, x866_32, where int, data pointer, and function pointer are the same size < 1757870805 831283 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry, I mean OTCC < 1757870816 923902 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the full TCC might do more, this is about OTCC, the IOCCC entry < 1757870838 636985 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the full TCC supports different types, including pointers to different structures0 < 1757870841 639395 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :) < 1757870983 294239 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh yeah, there's Forth. Forth also has just one type. < 1757870995 474665 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(there's of course an IOCCC version of that too) < 1757871830 495384 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've written C for a DSP where basically all the types were the same < 1757871843 595755 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it had 32 bit char, short, int and pointer, probably long too < 1757871853 265374 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and I'm not sure the compiler supported C99 so it may not have supported long long) < 1757871870 111050 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the compiler was a modified gcc but possibly a very old one < 1757872139 509936 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, didn't the first C compiler port for Magic-1 do that? > 1757872148 282043 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164631&oldid=164455 5* 03Rasa8877 5* (+194) 10 < 1757872185 474193 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was an existing compiler ported to a new system, since Magic-1 has a unique CPU (though now there are two hardware copies so it's not entirely unique) < 1757872418 823067 :rheaplex!~Rhea@2605:8d80:482:a692:647f:2a16:64dd:bc3 JOIN #esolangs rheaplex :* > 1757872742 454764 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03EsotericLanguagesBituf 5* 10New user account < 1757874187 451343 :rheaplex!~Rhea@2605:8d80:482:a692:647f:2a16:64dd:bc3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1757874465 3646 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Aadenboy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164632&oldid=161188 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+127) 10 > 1757875907 375051 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Alwaqad 5* 10New user account < 1757876461 520269 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :10 PRINT "Good Night, World!" < 1757877043 886290 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :night < 1757877045 577344 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1757877337 938107 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f91c:d27d:e5a1:1629 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1757877601 435250 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname > 1757878186 669586 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164633&oldid=164428 5* 03 5* (+51) 10 > 1757880012 989358 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Iloveunicorns 5* 10New user account > 1757885280 977738 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164634&oldid=164618 5* 03Wasabi134 5* (+188) 10/* Introductions */ > 1757885846 279703 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07R + S14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164635&oldid=164630 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+12) 10 < 1757886072 788697 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Would a tutorial on group theory from 1979 still be useful? < 1757886133 647680 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wonder what educational material from the 70s is still worthwhile. < 1757886405 570125 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The basics haven't changed since then. It might be incommensurate with modern language, depending on whether it follows Bourbaki. (Or am I thinking of rings?) < 1757886658 659531 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Some stuff might be out of date; for example, it might list the Classification of finite simple groups as an open problem. < 1757886673 509988 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's currently going over stuff like what cyclic subgroups are < 1757886677 217348 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But the basics really haven't changed, at all. < 1757886694 357379 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Not even didactically, I'd think. < 1757886859 396298 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe some students get to play with tools like GAP early these days, depending on the preferences of the lecturer. < 1757886875 165087 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Its definition of isomorphism between groups is that there's a one-to-one correspondence, AB implies A'B', and A'B' implies AB. I guess.. for some reason I was thinking just one to one correspondence, but this makes sense < 1757886905 725242 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's the main thing that I think has changed... we have much better tools to work with concrete groups using computers. < 1757886979 747336 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm, it accepted a lowercase c for one question but rejected it in the next < 1757887120 339507 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"implies" is the wrong word < 1757887158 870725 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm? < 1757887204 816836 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"AB implies A'B'" makes no sense < 1757887214 875136 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :It defines a homomorphic groups as being a many-to-one. Does that mean homomorphism itself is directional? < 1757887235 419946 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :I assume it's the same as "If AB then A'B'" < 1757887310 779922 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Given two groups G and H a homomorphism from G to H is usually defined as a function h: G -> H that satisfies h(xy) = h(x)h(y) for all x,y in G. You can write h(x) as x' and it becomes (AB)' = A'B' < 1757887312 549959 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's now talking about faithful and unfaithful matrix representations < 1757887333 576587 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But those are group elements, not propositions, so "implies" makes no sense. < 1757887365 76191 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Not also that xy is using G's group operation while h(x)h(y) is using that of H. < 1757887400 304424 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oops, I miswrote what the lesson said < 1757887406 658052 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs : | write established between their elements such that < 1757887406 833336 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs : | < 1757887406 833378 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs : | AB = C implies that A'B' = C', and ALSO < 1757887406 833385 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs : | < 1757887406 833391 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs : | A'B'= C' implies that AB = C. < 1757887421 195905 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Okay, that is fine. < 1757887494 438149 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The differene between "AB = C implies A'B' = C'" and (AB)' = A'B' is that it's giving AB a name. > 1757887635 829064 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=164636&oldid=164634 5* 03Iloveunicorns 5* (+178) 10 < 1757887700 614441 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION might want to try 0ibmcur in a bit. Retrocomputing to learn retrocomputting
< 1757887782 718214 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Not allowed to inspect it (on Cyber1. I'm sure I could inspect it on a local CYBIS) < 1757888426 305191 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's also a BASIC simulator, and the help makes it seem like it's simulating a specific BASIC, but I can't figure out which one. There's a USING statement that runs one different line, but people keep getting confused with PRINT USING when I describe it < 1757888437 216322 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://github.com/Sgeo/0basim < 1757888565 604853 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the biggest thing in group theory since the 70s is Abelian and additive categories; there's structure to group homomorphisms and exact sequences which was only known then for specific situations ((co)homology mostly) which gets its own treatment today. < 1757888630 205232 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :The lesson defines Abelian categories (as meaning that the operation is commutative) < 1757888634 377201 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Last I checked, the classification of finite simple groups was still not complete. The folks involved all believe that the core lemmas are proven, but there's no rack of books that one can put on their shelf and say "and this shelf holds the complete classification." It's certainly not fully formalized in e.g. Lean yet. < 1757888639 323709 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :*Alebian groups < 1757888683 781280 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah. An Abelian category is a category like the category Ab of Abelian groups; it generalizes Abelian-group theory to other contexts. < 1757888686 981368 :molson!~molson@24-124-54-137-dynamic.midco.net JOIN #esolangs molson :realname < 1757888797 305817 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh hey, there's a Chess variant on this thing < 1757888798 328060 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :In this learning activity the student works with algebraic < 1757888798 503262 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :chess notation and with elementary checkmates. The student < 1757888798 518520 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :may also play a chess variant, "Alice in Wonderland Chess," < 1757888798 518557 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :which has two boards. < 1757889051 539956 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:f91c:d27d:e5a1:1629 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1757889080 476697 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://gist.github.com/Sgeo/db3d720455e651bb3323f4a22e58d368 < 1757890978 980185 :FreeFull!~freefull@79.186.72.243.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl QUIT : < 1757891476 537342 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Can't believe I have to wait four more hours before I can give feedback on this blog post. Maybe tamales will help. < 1757891709 856434 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sgeo: initially, will one of the boards be empty? < 1757891749 302255 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e, yes, botttom board is empty < 1757891766 957501 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the one fun thing is that a queen by itself can capture a king < 1757891793 718522 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :All I figured out is that a typical chess opening is probably a really bad idea. Leaves king or queen exposed < 1757891805 496202 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, or does this only work in one parity, hmm < 1757891838 896998 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Eh I won't think about it much. < 1757891910 397608 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if queen and king are on opposite planes then the queen can chase down the king and move on top of it, and capture it on the next move < 1757891935 56506 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so that's kind of cute. also completely unlike chess < 1757891970 271983 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I'm looking at this on the queen's move) < 1757892036 728341 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I'm assuming that the usual rules about moving into check are not in effect and replaced by capturing the king) < 1757893140 614298 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :I can certainly try it out. Or read the source. I don't think this one supports remote multiplayer though < 1757893255 44459 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oops tried to check black but forgot my queen would fall < 1757893286 732806 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :It let me move the king into check < 1757893350 535736 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Uh. I tried to capture with black king with the white queen. The black king survived, the white queen didn't. Unless I typoed < 1757893418 631216 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's not enforcing which player can move which pieces < 1757893473 247551 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's stuff in the help about some rules not being enforced