> 1760400826 197730 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Erase14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166032&oldid=166031 5* 03BestCoder 5* (+251) 10
> 1760400875 774772 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Erase14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166033&oldid=166032 5* 03BestCoder 5* (-3) 10/* 100 10 1 program */
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> 1760405720 914539 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FP14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=166034 5* 03Corbin 5* (+910) 10Stub. Is it "whence" or "thence" in this mood? English is hard!
< 1760405901 253819 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :TIL that function-level programming is a real thing. I'd thought that the WP page on the topic is original research (and there's an OR banner there since 2018, I'm not alone) because it's not defined in Backus' paper which defines the FP programming system, "Can computing be liberated from the Von Neumann paradigm?" the famous 1978 paper.
< 1760405969 340849 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But it's defined in this paywalled 1981 paper, "Function level programs as mathematical objects" https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/800223.806757 which isn't cited on WP. Based on this, I will suggest that we add a subcategory of [[category:functional paradigm]] just for function-level languages.
> 1760406624 485641 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pointfree programming14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166035&oldid=162715 5* 03Corbin 5* (+350) 10/* Functional languages */ Yoinking and improving a cite. I'm using Dr. Cunha's preferred name from their GitHub [https://alcinocunha.github.io/ here]. I could have sworn that they had another paper from maybe 2007, book-length, on the topic; but I cannot find it. 
> 1760407295 470132 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FP trivia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166036&oldid=164100 5* 03Corbin 5* (-1305) 10Big cleanup: refs, bluelinks, a bit of grammar, infobox, categories.
> 1760408826 449482 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03H1dro0091! 5*  10New user account
> 1760411404 990369 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ab14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=166037 5* 03Akirademenech 5* (+2535) 10Created page with "'''Ab''' (or, alternatively, '''ab''' or even '''aB''', depending on the taste of the writer) is an esolang proposed by [[User:Akirademenech]].  It is directly inspired by [[BitChanger]] (using only binary values and less instructions than [[brainfuck|Brainfuck]]) and 
< 1760411522 273919 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: think of "whence" as an abbreviation of "from where" and "thence" as an abbreviation of "from there", that's the easiest way to tell them apart
< 1760411548 37421 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(likewise, "whither" as "to where" and "thither" as "to there")
< 1760411573 329827 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not that there's much reason to use theses words nowadays, but I'm on #esoteric so there doesn't really need to be a reason
< 1760411647 781562 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :<b_jonas> probably a bit less now that standard C has atomics and fences in it, but still ← the kernel doesn't use the C++ atomics (nor the version of them that got imported into C) but its own version
< 1760411672 248515 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the C++ committee tried for several years to specify atomics that worked like Linux's version and gave up
< 1760411721 475455 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have a suspicion that kernels can get away with concurrency-related things that don't make sense in userspace, because they have more control over pre-emption and the like
< 1760411907 826348 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(some of those fun concurrency-related things are available in userspace nowadays with the kernel's help, like membarrier(2) and rseq(2))
> 1760414185 101337 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166038&oldid=165993 5* 03H1dro0091! 5* (+94) 10
> 1760414193 261875 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H1dro0091!/Sandbox/PolarBF14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=166039 5* 03H1dro0091! 5* (+2085) 10Created page with "PolarBF is a [[brainfuck]]-inspired [[Esoteric programming language|esoteric programming language]] made by [[User:H1dro0091!|H1dro]].  == Language overview == Unlike [[brainfuck]], PolarBF uses a circular(ish?) tape with two pointer position 
> 1760414591 179998 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SECRET PUZZLE!14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166040&oldid=163686 5* 03Mouldyair 5* (+40) 10
< 1760416397 273375 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Secrets from the land of tin! Thanks.
> 1760416674 351008 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166041&oldid=165458 5* 03Corbin 5* (+674) 10/* Function-level programming */ new section
> 1760417420 966383 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pointfree programming14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166042&oldid=166035 5* 03Corbin 5* (+498) 10Started as formatting, ended up adding a paragraph about how BF is concatenative and pointfree.
> 1760418270 300561 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Pointfree programming14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166043&oldid=166016 5* 03Corbin 5* (+819) 10FP is tacit, yes. If you want an example of a more-tacit functional language, consider Cammy.
< 1760419254 668446 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :membarrier and rseq? I hadn't heard of these, let me look them up. are they useful on modern x86_64?
< 1760419472 761631 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yeah, I guess the C++ and C atomics aren't really suited because they try to transparently fall back to inter-thread locking when the CPU can't do the atomic operation, and that would be stupid in the kernel. but even so hopefully those atomics may have encouraged the compiler writers to clean up the semantics of what memory access reorder optimizations the compiler is allowed to do when, so the 
< 1760419478 986460 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :kernel would indirectly benefit.
< 1760419504 673016 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(except when modifying the floating-point environment is involved -- compilers still don't know how that works)
< 1760419545 249783 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :<b_jonas> membarrier and rseq? I hadn't heard of these, let me look them up. are they useful on modern x86_64? ← they're both useful, but membarrier is very special-purpose and rseq is theoretically potentially awesome but hard to use
< 1760419565 334826 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also trying to get compilers to understand rseq may be even harder than getting them to understand atomics
< 1760419649 908010 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :uh, there doesn't seem to be an rseq manpage
< 1760419662 915238 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/dir_all_alphabetic.html
< 1760419698 240836 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I also don't have an rseq manpage
< 1760419701 975481 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although it's listed in syscalls(2)
< 1760419728 464380 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :basically what it does is to set up a region of code addresses for which, if you get pre-empted within that range, it longjmps out to a predefined label
< 1760419751 451495 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so each instruction in that range can assume that the process didn't get pre-empted since the start of the range
< 1760419771 180197 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :guess I'll have to look it up in the kernel source code documentations if I want to know, hopefully there's a text file in there
< 1760419799 689044 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is combined with a way to find out which CPU the process is running on (information which you couldn't usefully use without rseq, because it might change at any time as a result of pre-emption)
> 1760419855 902 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Python14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166044&oldid=161233 5* 03Corbin 5* (-3) 10Fix renamed category.
< 1760419883 423079 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, so an alternate take on the old software transactional memory thing?
< 1760419902 764499 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a new take for something that was useful on old CPUs, except now it's useful again
< 1760419934 705235 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's reminiscent of software transactional memory in some ways, but feels quite different in how you use it
< 1760419960 56856 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can do things like have CPU-local variables and know that they aren't being contended on because they're only accessed from a single CPU
< 1760420064 557401 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think this is among those inter-thread synchronization optimizations that I'll probably never want to use, even if I know it's cool and someone else might have fun with it
< 1760420163 60603 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :membarrier too
< 1760420288 878360 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cool in theory, but if you need them then you're probably doing too much inter-thread synchronization and aren't dividing the tasks among CPUs well enough
< 1760420313 608843 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and since these are clearly userspace, they aren't among the cases when you need inter-CPU synchronization to divide hardware inputs well
< 1760420496 598217 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think rseq is more for non-synchronization-heavy cases where you have a lot more threads than CPUs, and so maintaining separate thread-local state for each of the threads would be wasteful
< 1760421020 12349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1760423980 889574 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Smoothbrain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166045&oldid=165354 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (+32) 10/* IO */ Clarify that line feed flattening should be done on STDIN
> 1760424550 972807 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Smoothbrain14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166046&oldid=166045 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (-47) 10/* Program */ More clearly define input text encoding and part of the language spec, and not as a validation thing by compilers
< 1760426932 252589 :tromp!~textual@89-99-43-152.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
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< 1760434648 770401 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Moin
> 1760435974 307226 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Smoothbrain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166047&oldid=166046 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (-1277) 10Rewrite major portions for readability
> 1760436231 514913 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Timwi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166048&oldid=128493 5* 03Timwi 5* (-54) 10
< 1760436716 678124 :strerror!~strerror@user/strerror PRIVMSG #esolangs :It sounds like an optimistic concurrency primitive (which is related to STM)
> 1760436822 845649 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Basic Stack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166049&oldid=165979 5* 03Nguyendinhtung2014 5* (+5247) 10add a fucking 900-line program for 99 bottles of beer
< 1760436911 890105 :strerror!~strerror@user/strerror PRIVMSG #esolangs :Or perhaps pithily, sort of a signal handler for preemption? Except longjmp doesn't push a signal stack.
< 1760441752 636383 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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> 1760446952 853036 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H1dro0091!14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=166050 5* 03H1dro0091! 5* (+27) 10Created page with "[[User:H1dro0091!/Sandbox]]"
> 1760446997 780521 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H1dro0091!/Sandbox14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=166051 5* 03H1dro0091! 5* (+35) 10Created page with "[[User:H1dro0091!/Sandbox/PolarBF]]"
> 1760447161 662909 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H1dro0091!/Sandbox/PolarBF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166052&oldid=166039 5* 03H1dro0091! 5* (+82) 10
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> 1760447827 886639 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166053&oldid=165609 5* 03U 5* (+10) 10
> 1760448585 291785 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H1dro0091!/Sandbox/PolarBF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166054&oldid=166052 5* 03H1dro0091! 5* (+12) 10
< 1760452864 104187 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure whether Basic Stack is actually TC. It has all of the right ingredients but it's not clear that they combine correctly.
< 1760452884 493469 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`' basic
< 1760452887 328195 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :10) <fungot> GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 100) <oerjan> alise: mainly it's the fact it blows so hard i cannot avoid hitting the walls of the thing, which completely goes against my basic public toilet hygiene principles \ 539) <ais523> elliott: so what are the two issues with xfce?  <elliott> they're very unlikely to fuck up Xfce, and it can be made to work basically exactly like gnome two \ 561) (Of Minecraft:
< 1760452953 113566 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I also don't want to be the guy who doubts that an 11yr kid can produce a TC proof, since a faithful embedding *does* give a valid proof. But given how they expanded the 99 bottles program, I'm not sure how they're actually verifying their results; it doesn't seem like they have the grasp of looping required to wield recursion.
< 1760453934 92500 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that reduction *mostly* works, but there's a subtlety in BCT where the program can wrap around immediately after a `1` command, causing the first bit of the program to be interpreted as a data bit to be conditionally appended.
< 1760453971 12939 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And the translation is a bit odd because neither 11 nor 10 can result in an empty string, so the `istop;stop` in those is useless
< 1760454174 312544 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :That subtlety could be avoided by reducing from CT ( https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bitwise_Cyclic_Tag#The_language_CT ) instead.
< 1760454402 498541 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: my main complaint about that page would be that it never explains how the stack is indexed, or goes into the behavior for out-of-bounds access
< 1760454527 795592 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it turns out that 0 is the bottom of the stack)
< 1760454577 993431 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh there's a second thing that the translation doesn't address: The initial string should be translated to a sequence of `push` instructions.
< 1760454589 854872 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, that's confusing to me too. Emulating cyclic tag requires picking/rolling the stack or having a second stack.
< 1760454595 792264 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So... yeah, the proof isn't complete.
< 1760454626 114069 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: The register keeps track of how much of the stack has been deleted.
< 1760454642 432411 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So you get a queue without ever deleting anything from the stack.
< 1760454678 1914 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, okay.
< 1760454692 72790 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The idea definitely works. The execution of the idea is flawed in the details.
< 1760454761 774015 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But it's also obvious how to fix those flaws.
> 1760455291 563637 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166055&oldid=165855 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+69) 10/* ESOLANGS */ add interpreters section
> 1760455309 557759 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166056&oldid=166055 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+28) 10/* interpreters */
> 1760455347 181969 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166057&oldid=166056 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+1) 10/* interpreters */ wrong language
> 1760456947 38419 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Basic Stack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166058&oldid=166049 5* 03Nguyendinhtung2014 5* (-8) 10no swearing anymore
> 1760457751 845275 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H1dro0091!/Sandbox/PolarBF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166059&oldid=166054 5* 03H1dro0091! 5* (+85) 10
> 1760457811 724058 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H1dro0091!/Sandbox/PolarBF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166060&oldid=166059 5* 03H1dro0091! 5* (+11) 10
> 1760459938 422915 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:H1dro0091!/Sandbox/PolarBF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166061&oldid=166060 5* 03H1dro0091! 5* (-96) 10
< 1760461382 7028 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Out of mostly curiosity, does anyone happen to remember where the "iterated" (not the "Markov", the one that's closer to the traditional) scoring scheme for BF Joust tournament results came from?
> 1760461736 666168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EsoChar14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166062&oldid=165991 5* 03SuperSMG5 5* (+118) 10A few small fixes and edits
< 1760462686 928733 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Context is, I'm reimplementing the hill-running code in something I can still understand (unlike Ruby), and having some trouble with the iterative scoring. I'm comparing these against the current report.js data, and the basic version is off by a constant factor of N/(N-1) (where N is the hill size), but I'm not sure which one is "correct".
> 1760462868 611691 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Elliktronic 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Syzygy.png10]]": Syzygy logo
< 1760463414 509232 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(It also contains values larger than 100 for the current top 3, despite the code declaring a maximum score of 100, but that's the case for both old and new implementations, and I don't think there was any actual justification for assuming it's ≤ 100; that's just something the traditional scoring guarantees.)
> 1760463982 88599 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Elliktronic/Syzygy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=166064 5* 03Elliktronic 5* (+10032) 10Created page with "[[File:Syzygy.png|thumb|alt=Syzygy Logo|Algebraic constellation]]{{infobox proglang |name=Syzygy |paradigms=algebraic, functional, constraint-based |author=[[User:Elliktronic]]  |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |typesys=static, strong, algebraic |memsy
> 1760465039 140700 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Elliktronic 5*  10moved [[02User:Elliktronic/Syzygy10]] to [[User:Syzygy]]
> 1760465064 401645 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Elliktronic 5*  10moved [[02User:Syzygy10]] to [[Esolang:Syzygy]]
> 1760465084 709191 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Elliktronic 5*  10moved [[02User:Syzygy10]] to [[Syzygy]]
< 1760465186 457 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh so close. I'll fix it if they don't figure it out in a few minutes.
< 1760465283 391837 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :they... moved the redirect
< 1760465379 750139 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Honestly, this increases my belief that they could be a category theorist. Mixing up source and target is our speciality.
< 1760465430 872074 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :is it opposite day again
< 1760465504 943892 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:cdf:654a:2a7f:261 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1760465514 964824 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe it's my fault. I decided to start learning jj (Jujutsu) today. The cosmic balance could have been disturbed.
< 1760466092 297439 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: can't help noticing that the iterated scoring divides by 0 eventually if you have a perfect ladder (program a always beats program b if a < b), because then D is upper triangular with zero diagonal. or maybe lower triangular; either way the N-th power of that will be 0.
> 1760467073 100375 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Elliktronic/Syzygy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166071&oldid=166066 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (-5) 10fix double redirect
< 1760467435 765155 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, I don't have permissions to remove the redirect in the main namespace. I guess that I will *not* be able to fix that, sorry.
< 1760467787 821664 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: Achieving that state on the hill left as an exercise for the reader. :) But yeah, that sounds right. (Or maybe "right" is not the right word.)
< 1760467858 622221 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: Oh yeah I wasn't suggesting that this would ever actually happen. But it does indicate that the computation is an ad-hoc thing without a strong underlying theory :)
< 1760468034 213605 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess I could just proclaim the new implementation correct, it's not like anyone's going to check. Although looking at the code both sure seem like they should be implementing the same thing, so that's a little weird.
< 1760468062 444975 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Being off by a constant factor seems to indicate it should have something to do with the normalization (or eventual scaling) of `s`, but it's not a lot of code for either.
< 1760468123 193582 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Only the final normalization step matters though, and surely you've checked that the N is the same?
< 1760468194 434219 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, assuming the https://zem.fi/bfjoust/internals/ page is correct; I haven't looked at code
< 1760468209 219655 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It *should* be. Though I can't actually conveniently run the Ruby code (locally, I mean -- it somehow barely works where it's running).
< 1760468282 492818 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The lens I'm viewing this through is, s^(i) is D^i s^(0), normalized.
< 1760468405 200927 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually being off by a factor of N/(N-1) does point towards the N-s being different
< 1760468438 654488 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah. It's just -- it's the same `n` that appears in the implementations of the other scoring methods, and those do produce equal results.
< 1760468459 420858 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm probably just missing something, though.
< 1760468544 25362 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :If I can be bothered to make the Ruby code runnable locally I'll just look at some intermediate values, surely it has to go awry at some specific point.
< 1760468725 557187 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I seem to recall in the Ruby implementation I've had a few "accidentally mutated something that was supposed to be immutable" issues over the years, so I guess it could be something boring like that.
< 1760468763 39244 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Although it's the same `n` that's used to size all the matrices and vectors, and it's at least generating the same amount of numbers. Eh, I'll worry about it later.
< 1760468896 452329 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: is n odd, resulting in n/2 being truncated to (n-1)/2?
< 1760468914 357083 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, that's a great point.
< 1760468945 766070 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Go code does convert it to float64 first, but the Ruby one is more implicit about typing.
< 1760468957 55210 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Yes, it's odd: there's 47 programs on the hill.)
< 1760469017 720247 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Specifically, Go code does `s.Scale(float64(rs.N)/(2*s.Norm(1)), s)` while Ruby does `s = s / s.sum.to_f * (n/2)`, and while I've forgotten all about Ruby typing, it's at least plausible that n/2 does integer division there.
< 1760469033 13293 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :In that case, the new numbers are probably the right numbers after all. :)
< 1760469066 836832 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I guess a constant factor doesn't *really* matter one way or the other though.)
< 1760469072 332277 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: I tested that Ruby prints 1 for print(3/2);
< 1760469096 292799 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which may be the first line of ruby code I've ever written? Hehehe.
< 1760470185 954568 :Everything!~Everythin@46.96.48.125 JOIN #esolangs Everything :Everything
< 1760472184 554629 :Everything!~Everythin@46.96.48.125 QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1760475213 359035 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Good Night
< 1760475870 900334 :V!~v@ircpuzzles/2022/april/winner/V JOIN #esolangs V :Wie?
< 1760476150 291561 :V!~v@ircpuzzles/2022/april/winner/V QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1760476363 298434 :V!~v@ircpuzzles/2022/april/winner/V JOIN #esolangs V :Wie?
< 1760476454 549818 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:cdf:654a:2a7f:261 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1760478683 86490 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Why is the ASN.1 Printable string type use the specific subset of ASCII that it does use? (I sometimes find this useful for some things which use a subset of this subset, such as domain names, though)
< 1760479220 744045 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: it's partly to exclude characters that are replaced in some ISO-646 variant
< 1760479227 527309 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but there might be other reasons
< 1760479299 289834 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe some characters are excluded because certain printers or terminals or card readers don't handle it well
< 1760479485 824290 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :It does not seem to match exactly excluding only the characters that are replaced in ISO-646, although it seems close.
< 1760479691 612374 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe you are right about the terminals and card readers too; I don't know
> 1760480796 75288 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Important lesbian virtual machine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=166072 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+15375) 10important lesbian virtual machine
< 1760480869 547307 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
> 1760480973 646365 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Important lesbian virtual machine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=166073 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+237) 10Created page with "As instructed, I am giving feedback here in the talk page. I don't think the language is all that interesting, aside from the Python DSL gimmick. ~~~~"
< 1760481015 705517 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN #esolangs lambdabot :Lambda_Robots:_100%_Loyal
> 1760481085 24894 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Important lesbian virtual machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166074&oldid=166072 5* 03RocketRace 5* (-7) 10
> 1760481126 640940 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RocketRace14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166075&oldid=153663 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+103) 10
> 1760481177 305065 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RocketRace14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166076&oldid=166075 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+45) 10
> 1760482679 402746 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Important lesbian virtual machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166077&oldid=166074 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+23) 10/* Some comments on syntax: */
> 1760482794 551479 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Important lesbian virtual machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166078&oldid=166077 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+45) 10/* Below are long nested lists relating to semantics: */
> 1760482808 933686 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Important lesbian virtual machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166079&oldid=166078 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+2) 10/* Below are long nested lists relating to semantics: */
> 1760483967 652832 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07?brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166080&oldid=165819 5* 03HyperbolicireworksPen 5* (-4) 10found a better 5/6,1;1/6,2 randomizer
< 1760484370 299038 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
> 1760484983 332701 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07?brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166081&oldid=166080 5* 03HyperbolicireworksPen 5* (+122) 10added (x,2) to some and changed 2/5,1;2/5,2;1/5,3
> 1760485699 236698 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07?brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166082&oldid=166081 5* 03HyperbolicireworksPen 5* (+57) 10more of the last and changed 3/5,1;2/5,2 and 4/5,1;1/5,2
> 1760485841 761795 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07?brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166083&oldid=166082 5* 03HyperbolicireworksPen 5* (-70) 10changed 3/5,1;1/5,2;1/5,3
> 1760485896 98468 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07?brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=166084&oldid=166083 5* 03HyperbolicireworksPen 5* (+0) 10got something wrong