< 1763252888 745419 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1763252968 961739 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168380&oldid=168378 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (-29) 10 < 1763253011 633879 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan JOIN #esolangs PoolloverNathan :nathan > 1763253051 318861 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168381&oldid=168380 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (-98) 10 > 1763253395 986635 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SletScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168382&oldid=168270 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+121) 10 > 1763253663 380988 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168383&oldid=168381 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+29) 10re-add category > 1763254004 920876 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168384&oldid=168357 5* 03Ais523 5* (+683) 10asking for opinions on whether pages like this are appropriate for the wiki < 1763254216 127445 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1763255987 645693 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan JOIN #esolangs PoolloverNathan :nathan < 1763256880 467160 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:4c1:1ab1:3da5:a5d5 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1763256916 632159 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:4c1:1ab1:3da5:a5d5 QUIT :Client Quit > 1763256919 866793 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fingerfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168385&oldid=165021 5* 03EvilRodentOfEVil 5* (-2) 10/* Commands */ < 1763257076 100169 :somefan!~somefan@208.58.192.69 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] somefan > 1763257085 86294 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168386&oldid=168383 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (-112) 10 > 1763257189 460430 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fingerfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168387&oldid=168385 5* 03EvilRodentOfEVil 5* (-303) 10/* Commands */ < 1763257399 358572 :somefan!~somefan@208.58.192.69 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1763257459 869941 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fingerfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168388&oldid=168387 5* 03EvilRodentOfEVil 5* (-43) 10/* Commands */ > 1763258338 211810 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tskastic/Command Table14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168389&oldid=166658 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+274) 10 < 1763258376 917973 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-154-63.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement > 1763259031 578842 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168390&oldid=168386 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (+6893) 10 > 1763259353 931793 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168391&oldid=168390 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (+2338) 10 > 1763259550 562420 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:Turing Complete14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168392 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (+59) 10Created page with "Yes, you can create anything in these languages, like GTA6." > 1763259671 135543 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168393&oldid=168313 5* 03NTMDev 5* (-4) 10/* Edit a List */ > 1763259709 371704 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168394&oldid=168393 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+2) 10/* Edit a List */ > 1763259861 938139 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168395&oldid=168391 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (+18) 10 > 1763259943 118349 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02Category:Turing Complete10]]": unapproved category, redundant to [[Category:Turing complete]] < 1763260577 110456 :somefan!~somefan@208.58.192.69 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] somefan > 1763260712 564403 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:NTMDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168396&oldid=167963 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+8) 10 > 1763261981 784475 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fingerfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168397&oldid=168388 5* 03EvilRodentOfEVil 5* (+709) 10/* Examples */ < 1763262018 354854 :somefan!~somefan@208.58.192.69 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1763262031 984825 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fingerfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168398&oldid=168397 5* 03EvilRodentOfEVil 5* (-4) 10/* 3 Character Password */ < 1763262304 482433 :op_4!~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1763262340 548319 :op_4!~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473 JOIN #esolangs op_4 :op_4 > 1763262774 72994 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brafuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168399&oldid=165567 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+264) 10 < 1763262995 100989 :impomatic!~impomatic@82.132.184.105 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1763265260 402603 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Mysonandadthatnosense 5* 10New user account < 1763265684 101119 :Guest41!~Guest41@69.110.139.250 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest41 < 1763265719 471170 :Guest41!~Guest41@69.110.139.250 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Omg let's goooo, I'm accessing this from a Scratch project (technically Turbowarp) < 1763265746 100563 :Guest86!~Guest86@69.110.139.250 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest86 < 1763265800 405655 :Guest86!~Guest86@69.110.139.250 QUIT :Client Quit > 1763266010 93352 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168400&oldid=168394 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+460) 10/* Enumeration */ < 1763266104 286726 :Guest41!~Guest41@69.110.139.250 QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1763266775 263879 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1763266900 637946 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan JOIN #esolangs PoolloverNathan :nathan > 1763266938 521761 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168401&oldid=168324 5* 03Mysonandadthatnosense 5* (+218) 10/* Introductions */ > 1763267363 470840 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Apraxia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168402&oldid=168284 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-20) 10/* Semantics */ > 1763267377 395205 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Apraxia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168403&oldid=168402 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-178) 10/* Examples */ > 1763267438 790618 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Apraxia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168404&oldid=168403 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-20) 10/* Semantics */ > 1763267655 691698 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Apraxia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168405&oldid=168404 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+61) 10/* Examples */ > 1763268570 976890 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168406&oldid=168287 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-251) 10/* esolangs */ > 1763268651 347110 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07()()(())14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168407&oldid=136415 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+25) 10/* definitions */ > 1763268709 661352 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168408&oldid=168395 5* 03Corbin 5* (+6) 10Fix categories yet again. > 1763268733 219473 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:()NEST()14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168409&oldid=168088 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-269) 10deleted some dumb talks I did a while ago > 1763268836 865764 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:()NEST()14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168410&oldid=168409 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+446) 10 > 1763269493 160840 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07()NEST()14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168411&oldid=136382 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-920) 10/* how it works */ < 1763269699 64143 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1763269868 832383 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:()NEST()14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168412&oldid=168410 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+666) 10 < 1763270385 940512 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1763270509 409369 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan JOIN #esolangs PoolloverNathan :nathan < 1763271635 116654 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1763271841 29435 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38 < 1763271846 347247 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Why does X.690 says that the canonical form of a floating point number in decimal format must have a plus sign for the exponent iff the exponent is zero? > 1763272039 556927 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Atamagaokashii14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168413&oldid=168345 5* 03RaiseAfloppaFan3925 5* (+497) 10/* Factorial operator example */ Silly me was too sleepy to complete the factorial program > 1763272306 650857 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Atamagaokashii14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168414&oldid=168413 5* 03RaiseAfloppaFan3925 5* (+1) 10/* Factorial operator example */ operator, not literal < 1763272338 161393 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1763273009 200565 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1763273996 667448 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1763274022 639635 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan JOIN #esolangs PoolloverNathan :nathan > 1763274034 3010 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SletScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168415&oldid=168382 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+470) 10/* single-time lambda runner */ > 1763274586 263712 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dynamic CE14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168416 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+405) 10Created page with "{{WIP}} '''Dynamic CE''' is an esolang created by [[User:Yayimhere]], as a more dynamic, and "usable"(to some extent) version of [[Contains everything]]. It is currently a WIP. == Description == === Builtins === Below are some Dynamic CE built in variables, > 1763274902 51218 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Distressed14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168417&oldid=168232 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+4) 10/* Computational class */ > 1763275048 746183 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Homunculus fallacy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168418&oldid=168334 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+65) 10/* Commands */ > 1763275056 856436 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Homunculus fallacy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168419&oldid=168418 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+1) 10/* Tricks and tips */ > 1763275219 632526 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Homunculus fallacy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168420&oldid=168419 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+69) 10/* Commands */ > 1763275256 622098 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RaiseAfloppaFan392514]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168421&oldid=168343 5* 03RaiseAfloppaFan3925 5* (+501) 10/* Languages I like */ Add Atamagaokashii < 1763275386 101962 :impomatic!~impomatic@82.132.184.148 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic > 1763275484 187300 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Homunculus fallacy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168422&oldid=168420 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-4) 10/* Commands */ > 1763275792 902247 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Homunculus fallacy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168423&oldid=168422 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-36) 10/* Commands */ < 1763275924 114740 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Yayimhere < 1763276017 715734 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hello. I have a question. Is the command set Increment, multiply by 10, add a cell and point to it, delete current cell, go back N commands, goto command N(only forwards), goto current cell value(may wrap around the program). > 1763276488 688408 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SletScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168424&oldid=168415 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+33) 10 > 1763276518 319823 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SletScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168425&oldid=168424 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-11) 10/* External Resources */ < 1763278469 579415 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Is the before mentioned command set turing complete < 1763278470 733560 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol < 1763278476 33723 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i had not realized it was incomplete < 1763280103 101552 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1763280535 100795 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Yayimhere < 1763280850 349543 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:c8e1:d9e5:9bcb:51af JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1763281712 858504 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1763281730 823056 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1763283114 239376 :impomatic!~impomatic@82.132.184.148 QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1763285758 295175 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ikiwekiwow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168426&oldid=166009 5* 03Saumus Paskevi 5* (+7) 10 > 1763285807 432081 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ikiwekiwow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168427&oldid=168426 5* 03Saumus Paskevi 5* (+7) 10 > 1763285862 641254 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ikiwekiwow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168428&oldid=168427 5* 03Saumus Paskevi 5* (-51) 10 > 1763285914 887420 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RaiseAfloppaFan392514]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168429&oldid=168421 5* 03RaiseAfloppaFan3925 5* (+2592) 10Tier lists < 1763285968 699708 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:c8e1:d9e5:9bcb:51af QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1763286080 853177 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ikiwekiwow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168430&oldid=168428 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+0) 10/* Operations */ correct the number of instructions > 1763286105 932060 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Confusion14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168431&oldid=90799 5* 03Saumus Paskevi 5* (+11) 10marked dead link > 1763286711 500545 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SletScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168432&oldid=168425 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+29) 10fix typo and format < 1763286972 562356 :sorear!sid184231@id-184231.uxbridge.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :moderately tempted to throw in a version of Henkin's theorem to prove that there are no surprises connected to the logical axioms < 1763287181 281153 :sorear!sid184231@id-184231.uxbridge.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :as it is the logic is only developed enough to prove that 0 and 1 have the expected nature > 1763289308 113170 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Contains everything14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168433&oldid=168364 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+171) 10 < 1763289537 79467 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi * < 1763289547 91216 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hello APIC < 1763289552 307950 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yo Yayimhere < 1763289562 441445 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :How are you? < 1763289568 558418 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And are you working on anything? > 1763289571 314868 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Samski 5* 10New user account > 1763289889 974350 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168434&oldid=168401 5* 03Samski 5* (+378) 10 > 1763289905 334450 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168435&oldid=168434 5* 03Samski 5* (+81) 10 > 1763290030 900376 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Contains everything14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168436&oldid=168366 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+244) 10 > 1763290048 917548 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Contains everything14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168437&oldid=168436 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+63) 10 > 1763290222 178669 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Contains everything14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168438&oldid=168433 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+0) 10 > 1763290279 342333 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dynamic CE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168439&oldid=168416 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-405) 10Blanked the page > 1763290377 465178 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Testing Facility14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168440&oldid=168267 5* 03RaiseAfloppaFan3925 5* (+709) 10Syntax highlighting < 1763290410 217080 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:c8e1:d9e5:9bcb:51af JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1763291486 738553 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RaiseAfloppaFan392514]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168441&oldid=168429 5* 03RaiseAfloppaFan3925 5* (+164) 10/* Tier List of Languages */ > 1763291813 187111 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925/Interpreters14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168442&oldid=168111 5* 03RaiseAfloppaFan3925 5* (+316) 10/* Nope. */ Add the Atamagaokashii interpreter of Nope. < 1763291961 114766 :DOS_User!~DOS_User@user/DOS-User:11249 JOIN #esolangs DOS_User :[https://web.libera.chat] DOS_User < 1763291976 339702 :DOS_User!~DOS_User@user/DOS-User:11249 QUIT :Client Quit < 1763291995 112004 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 JOIN #esolangs DOS_User :[https://web.libera.chat] DOS_User_webchat < 1763292091 29683 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 QUIT :Client Quit < 1763292106 154546 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 JOIN #esolangs DOS_User :[https://web.libera.chat] DOS_User_webchat < 1763292128 522677 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 QUIT :Client Quit < 1763292144 112584 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 JOIN #esolangs DOS_User :[https://web.libera.chat] DOS_User_webchat < 1763292153 183446 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :damn < 1763292165 225748 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ehat? < 1763292173 663028 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Chat? < 1763292226 86918 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :No < 1763292228 512982 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :What < 1763292235 601210 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I hate typnhg on phone < 1763292273 823442 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol' < 1763292300 642571 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anywayds sup < 1763292344 183404 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Working on an extension of contains everything < 1763292346 358391 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :WBU? < 1763292385 386709 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Bored < 1763292393 443457 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol < 1763292400 656602 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Have you ever made an esolang? < 1763292403 817658 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :just wondering < 1763292415 692157 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Granmas hpuse, dad is rambling about mushros < 1763292419 962590 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Musrooms < 1763292429 188495 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh yea i have < 1763292437 671006 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :User:juanp32 < 1763292450 878260 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cool! < 1763292454 4186 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ill check im our < 1763292456 762284 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :One ofvthem is turing complete < 1763292458 305327 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :would love to collab < 1763292470 924155 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Actually 2 but one is a bf derivatibe so yea < 1763292478 882334 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lul < 1763292501 889182 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Because a rite of passage for esolangers is bf dericative apparently < 1763292517 640834 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I havent actually < 1763292519 702661 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think > 1763293123 845827 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Contains everything14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168443&oldid=168438 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+246) 10 > 1763294305 706422 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Yayimhere2(school)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168444&oldid=167857 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+219) 10 > 1763294373 445728 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Yayimhere2(school)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168445&oldid=168444 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+159) 10 > 1763294382 988387 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Contains everything14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168446&oldid=168443 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (-4) 10 > 1763294595 11310 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168447&oldid=166161 5* 03None1 5* (+721) 10 < 1763294741 100354 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.142.241 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1763294782 577803 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1763294892 622915 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Contains everything14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168448&oldid=168446 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+141) 10 > 1763294917 9736 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Contains everything14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168449&oldid=168448 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+2) 10 > 1763295328 254237 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Yayimhere2(school)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168450&oldid=168445 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+315) 10 < 1763295615 955900 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1763295683 252339 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Contains everything14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168451&oldid=168449 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+321) 10 < 1763295684 100611 :impomatic!~impomatic@host81-138-18-19.in-addr.btopenworld.com JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic < 1763295742 636259 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan JOIN #esolangs PoolloverNathan :nathan > 1763296013 407178 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Yayimhere2(school)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168452&oldid=168450 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+383) 10/* ? */ < 1763296089 100139 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.178.226 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Yayimhere < 1763296847 257744 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@197.185.178.226 QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1763297078 33988 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Atamagaokashii14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168453&oldid=168414 5* 03Hammy 5* (+150) 10/* Member/Method Access */ < 1763297621 195074 :impomatic!~impomatic@host81-138-18-19.in-addr.btopenworld.com QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1763298027 851781 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Atamagaokashii14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168454&oldid=168453 5* 03Hammy 5* (+690) 10/* User:Esolangist */ > 1763298088 571939 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168455 5* 03Hammy 5* (+28) 10Redirected page to [[Atamagaokashii]] > 1763298820 183211 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:INTERCAL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168456&oldid=167964 5* 03Jasper 5* (+53) 10/* Useful functions made using INTERCAL's unary / binary operators */ < 1763299228 584027 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1763299349 650361 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan JOIN #esolangs PoolloverNathan :nathan > 1763299418 852884 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Atamagaokashii14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168457&oldid=168454 5* 03RaiseAfloppaFan3925 5* (+144) 10/* Extensions */ This < 1763299955 531065 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> logBase 2 3 * 23 < 1763299957 126687 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : 36.45413751658659 > 1763300449 79753 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Just a bit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168458&oldid=168271 5* 03Esolangist alt 5* (+169) 10 > 1763301030 223809 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168459&oldid=168384 5* 03Int-e 5* (+363) 10I think either delete them or mark pages like this with a big "AI slop" banner... < 1763301485 101232 :impomatic!~impomatic@host81-138-18-19.in-addr.btopenworld.com JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic > 1763301934 895012 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-814]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168460 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (+21282) 10Created page with "{{proglang | name = Abyssal-8 | year = 2025 | designer = Sawyer Macia | file extension = .aby8 | paradigm = Esoteric language deterministic, massively obfuscated, self-modifying VM | influences = Malbolge, Brainfuck (conceptual), cryptographic permutations }} < 1763302201 819812 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :...gah < 1763302245 81965 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh we're also inventing nonexistant templates? "Template:Proglang" < 1763302253 17504 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"we" < 1763302832 583599 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1763302956 642801 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan JOIN #esolangs PoolloverNathan :nathan < 1763303749 108528 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-154-63.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname > 1763304152 71057 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168461&oldid=168408 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (-281) 10 > 1763305176 70392 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168462 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (+6020) 10Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Abyssal-7 |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:YourUsernameHere]] |year=[[:Category:2025|2025]] |influence=[[Abyssal-8]], [[Abyssal-9]], [[Malbolge]] |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing < 1763305461 814367 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm I can feel a wiki user ban coming. > 1763305668 322548 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168463&oldid=168400 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+89) 10/* Floor, Ceiling */ > 1763305703 223432 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168464&oldid=168463 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+16) 10/* LogicalOperation */ < 1763305798 631615 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Aside from these pages being pure slop, they haven't reacted on their talk page either.) > 1763306014 644617 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168465&oldid=168464 5* 03NTMDev 5* (-31) 10/* Floor, Ceiling */ > 1763306043 650922 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168466&oldid=168465 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+90) 10/* Advanced Math Operations */ > 1763306974 203545 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168467&oldid=168466 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+474) 10/* Square root, Logarithm */ > 1763307728 689525 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168468&oldid=168467 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+77) 10/* Square root, Logarithm */ > 1763307852 581181 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168469&oldid=168468 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+306) 10/* Trig Functions */ > 1763308187 563626 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Contains everything14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168470&oldid=168437 5* 03Corbin 5* (+911) 10 > 1763308313 431581 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168471&oldid=168461 5* 03Corbin 5* (+2) 10Fix categories. > 1763308343 990755 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168472&oldid=168460 5* 03Corbin 5* (+6) 10Fix categories. This was clearly generated. > 1763308372 638661 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168473&oldid=168462 5* 03Corbin 5* (+7) 10Fix categories. This was clearly generated. > 1763308666 875586 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168474&oldid=168469 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+197) 10/* Gcd, Lcm */ > 1763308732 954057 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168475&oldid=168474 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+125) 10/* Mod, MathConstants */ > 1763308736 637191 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Mysonandadthatnosense 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Hello World!.png10]]" > 1763308989 973094 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Sawyer.go092314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168477&oldid=168312 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1556) 10/* Tagging & Slop */ new section > 1763309206 279225 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I RAGED ON CSHARP SO HARD I BROKE MY FUCKING PC14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168478&oldid=168216 5* 03Corbin 5* (+6) 10Fix categories. This smells generated. > 1763309228 383004 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!frjnrehrbwgyrigbyieurgbyfaerkhbvrwgtr.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168479&oldid=168217 5* 03Corbin 5* (+6) 10Fix categories. This smells generated. > 1763309242 127228 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz.now.i.know.my.abcs.next.time.wont.you.sing.with.me14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168480&oldid=168219 5* 03Corbin 5* (+6) 10Fix categories. This smells generated. > 1763309316 892888 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GTA614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168481&oldid=168316 5* 03Corbin 5* (+30) 10Fix categories. This smells generated. The repeated Gs put the model into a pseudo-stationary distribution and it forgot which language it was supposed to speak when it came back out. < 1763309363 138190 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Okay, I think I've tagged all of it. > 1763309691 570127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Classic?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168482&oldid=168239 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+3) 10/* Semantics */ > 1763310095 858016 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07M@trix14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168483 5* 03Mysonandadthatnosense 5* (+1416) 10Uhh M@trix! < 1763310443 693411 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:c8e1:d9e5:9bcb:51af QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1763310492 292554 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07M@trix14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168484&oldid=168483 5* 03Mysonandadthatnosense 5* (+1) 10/* M@trix */ < 1763310503 866724 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1763310587 600061 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1763310587 899604 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1763310593 468718 :impomatic!~impomatic@host81-138-18-19.in-addr.btopenworld.com QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1763310597 66132 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Classic?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168485&oldid=168482 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+2) 10/* Semantics */ > 1763310886 460786 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07M@trix14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168486&oldid=168484 5* 03Mysonandadthatnosense 5* (+153) 10/* External Links */ > 1763310938 182787 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07M@trix14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168487&oldid=168486 5* 03Mysonandadthatnosense 5* (+0) 10/* M@trix */ > 1763311033 684048 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Mysonandadthatnosense14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168488 5* 03Mysonandadthatnosense 5* (+169) 10Created page with "Hi guys! Im the guy who made [[M@trix]] :D--~~~~" > 1763311095 887068 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Samski14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168489 5* 03Mysonandadthatnosense 5* (+3) 10Created page with "uhm" < 1763311246 157946 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) > 1763311260 801297 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07M@trix14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168490&oldid=168487 5* 03Mysonandadthatnosense 5* (+79) 10/* M@trix */ > 1763311325 474752 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Atamagaokashii14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168491&oldid=168457 5* 03Esolangist alt 5* (+20) 10Esolangist alt < 1763311987 25604 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't want to ban Sawyer.go0923 without giving them more of a chance to respond to the warnings, but I'm also thinking that the behaviour is getting increasingly banworthy < 1763312068 713520 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :really I or someone else needs to work on a topicality policy which gives something to point to as a reason to delete this (which I don't think should be "was created by AI" unless there were copyright concerns, but rather "a page should document a language, you can't just write something that looks like language documentation unless there is an actual language to document" < 1763312117 782311 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the AI that's generating the pages seems to have fallen into the common issue of mixing up actual useful output and plans for the future / todo lists (which, admittedly, I sometimes do myself on a smaller scale, but not to that extent) < 1763312224 844679 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to clarify: I think "ask an AI for ideas, try to create a language around the ideas it comes up with, document the language" is clearly acceptable even if I'm not particularly a fan of the process; but "ask an AI for language documentation and post it" is not acceptable because at no point has the language actually been created < 1763312316 441405 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Understood. I will propose some policy wording in a bit. I hope I didn't overstep in my warning; I wanted them to understand *why* their behavior is an issue and *how* to improve. < 1763312362 312335 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's a wiki, warning people is something that anyone can do (although if the warnings are in bad faith it would be a problem, and if they're in good faith but very off the mark it would need correction) < 1763312373 670550 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"articles should document languages" seems like a good maxim for sure. < 1763312391 440270 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(or document something else, if the article is not intended to be about a language) < 1763312444 453172 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am generally extremely forgiving as moderators go (which might have caused problems in the past) – this incident is annoying even me, so it must be even worse for everyone else < 1763312535 240736 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Yeah technically AI isn't the issue. Nor, in a way, is slop; we have plenty of barely specified language stubs... not great, but easy to sort out at a glance. The combination though... AI enables slop that looks substantial, produced at a prodigious rate. < 1763312582 982285 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with human-produced slop there's generally *a* language idea, just the human may not fully understand it and may have trouble articulating it properly < 1763312592 228597 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in my case, I normally just don't post those languages, but some people do < 1763312611 745585 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and when I do post languages that I haven't fully thought through they are often not very interesting) < 1763312623 502733 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i don't think it matters much whether it's ai or not, though it's much more likely with ai, but without knowing how to formulate it, i think it's not a place for "silly stupid half baked stuff with zero interesting value" < 1763312685 110378 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(all subjective obviously, hence "not sure how to formulate it") < 1763312687 888405 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I can potentially see going as far as "a page must contain either an interpreter, sufficient information that it would be possible for someone else to create an interpreter, or a link to a page containing one of these things" although that would be a really major change and I wouldn't want to make it without extensive discussion < 1763312701 847018 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it'd need to be adapted a bit for hypothetical languages < 1763312706 894163 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, for uncomputable languages < 1763312706 975647 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm just not a fan of vanity. I think this this community is much more lenient than e.g. nLab, where "remove yourself" is a community value, but in general I think that wikis should not just be guestbooks where people write grand signatures. < 1763312754 654025 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :something like https://esolangs.org/wiki/Banana_Scheme would be sufficiently well-specified to implement if not for the fact that it's theoretically impossible < 1763312762 246561 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but you can imagine writing an implementation in another uncomputable language < 1763312808 772762 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, except that it doesn't specify syntax for the transfinite ordinales < 1763312809 566426 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :[[Sammy]] would be my example of an edge case. It's an interesting open research question whether a Turing machine can simulate it! < 1763312815 50366 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*ordinals < 1763312820 699901 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Sammy < 1763312847 763685 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: ooh, unknown between TC and uncomputable? I don't see that very often < 1763312858 577022 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :This is intangible, but Banana Scheme is clean: It adds just enough to Scheme to embody the idea of having access to a tower of halting oracles. < 1763312917 612781 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes < 1763312942 106928 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Yeah. The main issue is that it's not known how to compute Kan extensions in Cat other than via diagram chasing. I think that there might be an algebraic way to simulate it, so that we could compute an approximation; but the details were difficult to work out and I gave up after a week. < 1763312990 110061 :impomatic!~impomatic@82.132.184.43 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic < 1763313020 391698 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: ais523: just wanted to put it out there. thanks again for the discussion and ideas. i only ended up using ais523's "if (0 or near enough) BODY" code https://gist.github.com/avih/3c7733e251e7edaf161f7f71c840ce69 < 1763313056 773418 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: I think you have int-e's name backwards < 1763313059 240446 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( who's e-int ) < 1763313068 284150 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol duh > 1763313089 365031 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Iterate14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168492&oldid=168319 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+10) 10/* Completeness */ I think it'd be obvious to say that Iterate without any way to reset counters is not Turing-completeironically, it would probably be equivalent to [[ITERATE]] instead < 1763313098 100360 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 JOIN #esolangs DOS_User :[https://web.libera.chat] DOS_User_webchat < 1763313125 185159 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fixed! :) < 1763313147 647198 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:c8e1:d9e5:9bcb:51af JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1763313251 840701 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i wanted to find a way to document it in really small chunks without having to use a debugger to see how it looks. i think it ended up ok < 1763313402 707525 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i'm not entirely convinced my "while" construct is minimal, because the condition part has to be duplicated and my gut feeling is that it might be possible to use only once, but so far i didn't find out how < 1763313450 674294 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(i'm sure it can be minimized with tailored code, but i'm more interested in generally applicable constructs) < 1763313480 40408 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.9.1+deb2+b3 - https://znc.in < 1763313480 67894 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.9.1+deb2+b3 - https://znc.in < 1763313538 849662 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(that refers to the first while. obviously "while (not 0)" is fine) < 1763313607 115353 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: maybe something like +[ -> COND [-<+> ...]<] < 1763313632 196244 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(instead of COND [- ... COND]) < 1763313651 527955 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(digesting. also brb) < 1763313651 751612 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1763313668 538106 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I have not checked whether that's nciely applicable to the actual code) < 1763313674 14863 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :*nicely < 1763313771 636110 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan JOIN #esolangs PoolloverNathan :nathan < 1763313853 165831 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, no worries. i will :) but general constructs are useful even if not directly applicable in this case. < 1763314007 101891 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1763314022 102789 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 JOIN #esolangs DOS_User :[https://web.libera.chat] DOS_User_webchat < 1763314309 443111 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :DOS_User_webchat: Folks don't have to make a BF derivative to contribute to the Brainfuck story. They could also write an interpreter, write a notable or interesting program, demonstrate a new compilation technique, etc. < 1763314341 708100 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I want to avoid folks thinking that community membership involves tagging a specific graffiti wall with a signature. < 1763314342 444820 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: ik it was a joke < 1763314349 503158 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :DOS_User_webchat: Ah, okay. No worries. < 1763314358 261392 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :on how almosteveryone did a derivative < 1763314533 948375 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(back) > 1763314636 887461 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168493&oldid=168471 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (+39) 10 < 1763314683 101470 :impomatic!~impomatic@82.132.184.43 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1763314863 308627 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User:11249 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1763314976 293204 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: so COND sets the curr cell to exactly 0/1, and body is "..." ? why the very 1st "+" ? does it assume that it's never -1? < 1763315049 565445 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: that's supposed to be on a temporary < 1763315075 528636 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the assumption is that it starts on a temp cell which is 0? < 1763315080 524832 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah < 1763315153 535321 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the idea is that instead of duplicating COND, have the outer loop return to before COND whenever the conditions was true > 1763315166 369496 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Sawyer.go092314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168494&oldid=168477 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (+266) 10Reply < 1763315170 112519 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is using a separate condition that is easier to manage < 1763315352 94950 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yeah, i get the idea, just not yet whether it's applicable. so the startup state expects to be on the 1st of two consecutive tmp cells, where the 1st is 0 and the 2nd is cond which is exactly 1 or 0, yes? < 1763315475 858919 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, no. COND represents code to generate 1/0 for this iteration, right? < 1763315483 95257 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :right < 1763315494 503437 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :COND is the thing that you duplicated, more or less < 1763315503 311208 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea < 1763315525 278254 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(with all these code templates, the exact number and direction of < and > may need adjustments) < 1763315555 829238 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, but this is specific example, so i'm applying it to its own requirement < 1763315571 410013 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(i..e your example uses specific places) > 1763315582 167848 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168495&oldid=168473 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (-48) 10 < 1763315582 423477 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Right, but what I wrote didn't take your constraints into account, so you're on your own. < 1763315603 937177 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :mine doesn't matter. i can apply it once i get it < 1763315649 210152 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(if applicable, my main concern is that it's an unbalanced loop, so need to ensure the bookkeeping happens correctly, but i _think_ it should be ok) < 1763315697 666863 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(because the cleanup happens right after it's used, before BODY) > 1763315746 288370 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168496&oldid=168472 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (-437) 10 > 1763315807 334066 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Sawyer.go092314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168497&oldid=168494 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (+6) 10 < 1763315908 844749 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: i think i get it. the 1st tmp cell is used both to "get in" unconditionally initially, and also to loop unconditionally, where on each iteration cond is the actual decider about whether body should be executed, yes? > 1763315956 619925 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07M@trix14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168498&oldid=168490 5* 03Mysonandadthatnosense 5* (+713) 10 < 1763315969 445323 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and if COND is false, then the body loop is not entered and the outer look exits right away < 1763316029 6885 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i _think_ it should be applicable, but not entirely sue yet. mainly due to the unbalanced nature < 1763316043 118280 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(of my BODY) < 1763316520 228794 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :b_jonas > 1763316627 329988 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Burn14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168499&oldid=167764 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+188) 10/* Thoughts on burn */ > 1763316743 917458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Iterate/Math14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168500&oldid=168175 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+590) 10extra logic < 1763316805 752612 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:c8e1:d9e5:9bcb:51af QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1763316989 787000 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:c8e1:d9e5:9bcb:51af JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1763317060 343407 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, they're still using chatbots to write their replies, but at least they replied. > 1763317123 931752 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07M@trix14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168501&oldid=168498 5* 03Mysonandadthatnosense 5* (+47) 10/* External Resources */ > 1763317175 825858 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07M@trix14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168502&oldid=168501 5* 03Mysonandadthatnosense 5* (-144) 10/* M@trix */ < 1763318184 299357 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1763318326 663270 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: that's your suggestion in a bit more formal notation, yes? < 1763318328 61205 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(start @base) tmp1+[- (tmp2=COND) tmp2[- tmp1+ base BODY tmp2] tmp1] < 1763318425 674138 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and what i'm thinking about is what happens when BODY inherently moves head, as in unbalanced. < 1763318428 575152 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: you're using names to indicate movement, I guess; in that case, yes < 1763318456 591291 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the name X means "move to X", and it uses the names base, tmp1, tmp2 < 1763318467 72917 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, got it < 1763318488 505922 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1763318595 788875 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i'm also wondering whether tmp2 can reuse the tmp1 cell, and end up requiring only 1 tmp < 1763318651 168517 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: well you need a known-0 place to exit the inner loop < 1763318662 146439 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :indeed < 1763318663 733989 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"loop"; it's more of a conditional branch < 1763318693 196487 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :basically, the inner loop must be an "if", yes? < 1763318710 82777 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah > 1763318712 703092 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Sawyer.go092314]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168503 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (+1) 10Created page with "a" < 1763318791 38608 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then, if tmp1 is reused, then it could end in "BODY tmp1[-]] +]" while reusing tmp1? < 1763318894 254839 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: but a non-zero tmp1 is how the outer loop knows to continue < 1763318903 550561 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :as in: (start @base) tmp+[- (tmp=COND) tmp[- base BODY tmp[-]] +] < 1763318947 36212 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's redundancy there of the tmp[- and the [-] < 1763318966 100832 :impomatic!~impomatic@82.132.184.43 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic < 1763318980 595466 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it the end of the inner loop, one cell is known to be 0 (because the loop exits) and another cell is supposed to track whether to continue or not; that's two cells used for flow control at that point. < 1763318985 818666 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm.. no < 1763318996 308227 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah < 1763319004 458342 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the "no" was for my suggestion) < 1763319062 799021 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it? at. < 1763319084 922686 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, got it :) < 1763319100 312722 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you got "at", eh... < 1763319136 891574 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you were correcting your "it the end of the inner loop" yes? < 1763319169 15167 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure < 1763319230 821205 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, yeah, when COND is true it should set tmp1 to re-enter the loop, and also use something to ensure exit of the inner loop. so two tmps indeed. < 1763319269 645145 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :re-enter the outer* loop < 1763319385 797684 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but you can use the two tmps for other purposes in `BODY` and also in `COND`, as long as you reset them properly < 1763319397 580105 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah < 1763319516 167375 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think that in my case where BODY moves head, it should set tmp1+ after body rather than before, which would ensure entrance at the new position, but with a non-moving BODY the tmp1+ can be either before or after BODY < 1763319672 287541 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :re reuse, specifically COND can reuse tmp1 as long as it restores it to 0 before entering the inner loop, and same for BODY < 1763319687 748507 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-154-63.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1763319741 539010 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-154-63.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname < 1763319743 725111 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, you mentioned reuse in COND too. i stopped reading at "BODY" :) > 1763320090 852515 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168504&oldid=168493 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (+364) 10 > 1763320112 220122 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168505&oldid=168504 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (-62) 10 > 1763320127 154197 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168506&oldid=168505 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (-69) 10 > 1763320328 241535 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168507&oldid=168506 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (-39) 10 < 1763320377 100015 :impomatic!~impomatic@82.132.184.43 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1763320864 440171 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1763320992 638027 :pool!~nathan@user/PoolloverNathan JOIN #esolangs PoolloverNathan :nathan < 1763321383 787055 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: you know how this community is, if you set an inclusion policy for the wiki, I'll both find bad articles to get rid of and try to find loopholes for how the policy implies we should get rid of good articles. < 1763321408 345319 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: what are you intending to do with the loopholes if you find them? :-D < 1763321420 898636 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :^style agora < 1763321420 968349 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical) < 1763321431 505091 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: we should get a team of Agorans to go over our new policy and find all the loopholes < 1763321431 723629 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: there shall be retired from that gambler's hand. for each contest that awarded < 1763321630 596362 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: presumably use them to convince you (as in the wiki admins collectively) to change the policy, but possibly only after I use the policy to get rid of some bad articles < 1763321758 296450 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, how The Man With No Name did it. Or Mad Max, or Aloy. Walk into town, use overwhelming force to topple local despot, insist that overwhelming force is dangerous and should be retired, walk out of town. < 1763321821 759225 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if the policy were that the page should link to an interpreter or there should be enough information to create one then I'd ask how we apply that to efghij or BancStar < 1763322011 348666 :int-e_!~noone@213162080120.public.telering.at JOIN #esolangs int-e :Bertram < 1763322078 639949 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1763322163 765942 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Esolangist/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168508&oldid=167675 5* 03Esolangist alt 5* (+123) 10Esolangist alt < 1763322170 178319 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: :) < 1763322183 96749 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if necessary I might even propose articles that don't exist yet and should exist but couldn't with the policy < 1763322209 280688 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: Not a bad thing, just a pattern. (I love speedrunning Horizon, BTW. I should do that more often.) < 1763322243 166348 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah. good pattern, and i get why b_jonas suggested it. fun nevertheless :) < 1763322285 267594 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it comes down to what i suggested just seemingly more formally: apply subjective judgment... < 1763322328 464666 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but i liked your examples :) < 1763322412 986403 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :basically what everyone does in politics and also elsewhere: define rules which enforce the ruller's subjective point of view. the rest of us can only hope the ruller has fair point of view. > 1763322570 125754 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abyssal-914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168509&oldid=168507 5* 03Sawyer.go0923 5* (-233) 10 < 1763322634 944179 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(i like to speedrun farcry 3) < 1763322640 616920 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(also been a while) < 1763322699 535993 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I think efghij has sufficient *information* to write an interpreter, but actually writing the interpreter would be difficult < 1763322702 857203 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(not the actual main game. only reset the outputs and win all of them, which takes me just less than an hour) < 1763322711 12737 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :outposts* < 1763322730 771596 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's rad. All Outposts sounds like it should be a category. < 1763322732 284928 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, in the early days of the wiki, BANCStar was considered offtopic < 1763322757 1741 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is, after all, basically just a bytecode format < 1763322789 767156 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: it might be. was never interested in the "scene". i just find it fun and relaxing. < 1763322794 29938 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and challenging :) < 1763322799 706741 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is x86-64 machine code an esolang? it's certainly weird enough < 1763322862 605978 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :heh < 1763322907 890309 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I think for including in the wiki, we needn't judge whether a language is esoteric enough, we can keep articles about non-esoteric languages too. but obviously I'm biased, I like to write those kinds of articles. < 1763322921 819017 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :TIL about BANCStar. Almost sounds like a joke. But I know MUMPS is real and this is only slightly more cursed. < 1763322933 720233 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's enough if the article says something that's of interest to the esoteric language community in general < 1763322941 981855 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would say probably not, but if you have something remarkable to write about it which would be suitable for esolangs, write it anyways. < 1763322950 104400 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've actually never looked at MUMPS in detail, even though it's apparently a major enough language that I *should* know it < 1763323041 435004 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: it's hard to be sure if BancSTAR was real or a very elaborate joke. there seems to be more apparently original artifacts about it than for Kvikkalkul, but the person who tried to get a copy of the interpreter vanished. maybe the floppies were just cursed, wouldn't be strange, but maybe they vanished because there's no interpreter and they didn't want to admit that < 1763323088 540876 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :WP's got some examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUMPS#Features It is not bad when written out longhand, but it supports so many one-character tricks for abbreviating. < 1763323235 55653 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :BANCSTAR seems legitimate to me (for a few reasons including examining existing parts of programs, including the small part that was originally published with no explanation; I think (if I remember correctly) that that small piece of code was asking a yes/no question), but of course I cannot know for sure. < 1763323258 508000 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :BANCStar is the sort of thing that, if fake, would only have been generated by AI < 1763323271 377358 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :nobody puts in the effort to make that much legitimate-looking content by hand < 1763323288 928637 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it's old enough that being an AI fabrication is unlikely < 1763323345 844403 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, as more details about it were discovered over time, it appeared to become more rather than less self-consistent, which is rare with fabrications < 1763323351 645291 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Considering my analysis of https://geocities.restorativland.org/ResearchTriangle/Station/2266/tarpit/bancstar.html as well as how old it is (like you mention), I think it is not generated by AI (unless the AI was specifically designed for this purpose, which seems unlikely) < 1763323749 590529 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN #esolangs int-e :Bertram < 1763323779 859001 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, so in MUMPS, global variables are *truly* global – they can be read from other programs, or from a later invocation of the same program < 1763323802 714855 :int-e_!~noone@213162080120.public.telering.at QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1763323810 388019 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and Wikipedia suggests this is the etymology of the modern "global variable" concept which is more limited < 1763323946 353330 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that is also true in TI-92, although in TI-92 you can separate global variables into multiple areas. < 1763323971 609403 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: without analyzing the actual listing, the story sounds (entirely twisted but) legitimate to me too. < 1763324032 256731 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :BANCStar likely arose by starting with a simple "draw this text field at this location with a label at that location" form displayer, and features being gradually retrofitted onto it over time < 1763324062 568885 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, some kind of piggyback evolution < 1763324066 650326 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Yes, that might be what it was. < 1763324143 828398 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in x86-64 machine code, most commands are 32 bits by default, you prefix with 0x48 to make them 64 bits, with 0x66 to make them 16 bits, and add 1 to the opcode to make them 8 bits < 1763324178 245196 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is oddly asymmetrical and somewhat wasteful because 8 and 32 are not the most common widths, but it makes more sense when you consider its history as having grown from a machine code where there were only two relevant bitwidths < 1763324179 622082 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but i imagine it should be relatively simply to write a compiler for it which allows comments and indentations etc < 1763324184 987649 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :simple* < 1763324232 732871 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it would be batshit crazy imo that the "machine code" was the actual source < 1763324244 281019 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, it wasn't, to start with < 1763324249 827846 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but apparently the source language wasn't very powerful < 1763324260 640627 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so people started coding in the machine code directly < 1763324265 335018 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(for BANCStar, that is) < 1763324306 841757 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, but then the machine code became actual source. i meant it should be relatively simple to improve the higher level language which compiles to the same machine < 1763324366 349608 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :even if just a sed script which replaces "if" "goto" etc with the respective numbers, and allow indentation and comments < 1763324368 78507 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it would have been very unlikely to be open source, so you would have had to persuade its original authors to improve it (or give you access) in order to do so lehally < 1763324369 601198 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* legally < 1763324388 67449 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I get the impression that the higher-level language didn't use traditional textual source code but was instead some sort of visual editor < 1763324422 4347 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :It seems that someone did write a invent a higher level language (called BANCNova), although it seems that the original implementation was a visual editor like ais523 says < 1763324425 407179 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the way it's described at that page, it's simple enough that downsteram devs could do that on their own < 1763324435 180940 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i would do that if i had to target this machine < 1763324474 958075 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, just write an entirely unrelated language that compiles into BANCStar, that makes more sense < 1763324501 292682 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not entirely. even directly, but at least be manageable < 1763324533 101769 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :as i said, even some tiny sed thingy < 1763324611 165986 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :remove all whitespaces, remove all lines which begin with '#' translate if/goto/whatever to the numbers, etc < 1763324668 899768 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: what would happen if there was an interpreter, but it disappeared from the internet since and it's hard to find a copy? what if there is an interpreter but you have to pay money for a license? < 1763324711 48447 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: fwiw I thought the interpreter policy would probably be a bad idea but also thought it's a good thought experiment < 1763324726 656340 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: https://github.com/vijithassar/lit might be inspiring. In Monte, files with .md extensions are preprocessed with a lit-like pass, so that one can have .mt.md literate source or .asdl.md literate ASTs. < 1763324728 471051 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah < 1763324736 635919 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(before correcting it, I typoed "probably" as "prnobbly" – that's an extreme enough typo to possibly make the next Befunge) < 1763324800 695009 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I suppose that the original inspiration https://gist.github.com/trauber/4955706 is more ontopic for this channel. < 1763324832 96423 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :an interesting case is https://esolangs.org/wiki/SKOAL . it's not a language, but I don't think that's the relevant problem here. the problem is that to recreate it, you either have to find an existing copy, presumably used, and dump its ROM, or the harder version is to reverse engineer the ROM of the calculator and implement it yourself. < 1763324904 953704 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1763324952 5663 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I guess SKOAL is easy enough to imagine and implement as a (not actually a language) *family* but the data needed to produce that specific board isn't and shouldn't be available < 1763324988 88282 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this reminds me of when people try to create esolangs with a command saying "prints this text: really long text" as a method of trying to make the text ontopic so that it can be posted on the wiki < 1763325013 10386 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think that's legitimate either, the language should be parameterized on the text and the text should be offsite if anywhere < 1763325034 22475 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: was not familiar with literate programming, but i only glimpsed at the wikipedia page, and it's not obvious to me how it's different from a source code file which is interleaved with extensive chunks of comments < 1763325077 397634 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or to use a more legitimate example, in Jelly, there's a command that parses a sequence of bytes as token numbers, and outputs a string formed by concatenating the tokens < 1763325078 10914 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :languages typically already have facilities to separate actual source from free text - comments < 1763325085 299861 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the map from token numbers to tokens is just a really big hardcoded map < 1763325088 669200 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Beecode doesn't even print a text that's releavnt < 1763325117 950631 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but that being a knuth thing, i'm sure it has more substance than my initial impression) < 1763325119 577863 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it doesn't seem right (and would be copyright infringing) to post the entire hardcoded map on the wiki, so it makes more sense to link to it < 1763325190 238146 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: so my understanding of literate programming is that it is a combination of a) a programming language in which comments can be made particularly easy to read compared to the executed source code, and b) a programming style in which the program is ordered such that you can get an understanding of how it works by reading the comments and source in order from top to bottom < 1763325211 168772 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but b) doesn't really show up in the languages because it isn't enforced, and a) is an almost trivial matter of syntax < 1763325258 847910 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: oh yeah, good thing you mention it, https://esolangs.org/wiki/PL/MIX is one where we expect we'll never have enough information to create an interpreter < 1763325358 222545 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: i think both can be applied in most (normal) languages? < 1763325408 158922 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: yes, although it mostly depends on how awkward the comment syntax is < 1763325408 757178 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :each language caters to a different sensibility of "readability", but overall it's just syntax, which one ultimately has to master in order to follow the code. < 1763325421 728570 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to do it in C, you can imagine */…/* as being an "anticomment" symbol < 1763325429 348357 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this works in most languages with C-style comments < 1763325433 973609 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :unless it's high level enough that it's the same language as PL/MMIX, which will be defined in TAOCP volume 5, as in something like C with implementation-defined word size < 1763325453 3976 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it has MIX in its name so that doesn't sound likely < 1763325463 341129 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: doesn't C also have implementation-defined word size? < 1763325482 281052 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yes, that's why I'm giving C as an example for high-level language < 1763325500 544415 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, I see, you're using C as an example rather than the word size as an exception < 1763325515 641612 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is an ambiguity in English that I don't think I've consciously noticed before < 1763325538 416205 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(i'll read a bit more about lit programming later, because i'm guessing it should have some substance other than style) < 1763325562 947142 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's a precedence ambiguity, "(something like C) with implementation-defined word size" (the intended meaning) versus "something like (C with implementation-defined word size)" (how I interpreted it) < 1763325646 295049 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: aww, now I'm disappointed that MMIX wasn't created in 2009, it seems like the sort of pun that programmers like Knuth would enjoy < 1763325688 92754 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: MMIX was created in 2009 for some value of created. it took multiple years to create. < 1763325782 450094 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok no, 2004 is probably the most relevant year when it was released < 1763325825 820534 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so probably not created in 2009 < 1763326280 758212 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: that lit inspiration awk thingy could also be written as (untested): awk '/^```/{x=!x;next}; x' < 1763326390 104052 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: The original literate-programming idea included a *tangling* phase that allows for programs to be written in arbitrary order. One tangling could lead to an executable version of the program and another tangling could produce a book; the book's chapters don't have to correspond to text sections in the executable. < 1763326418 527467 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But yeah, if you've seen modules and docstrings then literate programming might seem like a dated concept. < 1763326438 101526 :impomatic!~impomatic@82.132.184.43 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic < 1763326448 571705 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, what i thought as well < 1763326499 566924 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-154-63.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1763326515 253003 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-154-63.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname < 1763326643 842036 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: Here's a motivating example: https://github.com/monte-language/typhon/blob/master/mast/lib/prom.mt.md This is a Prometheus metrics server. The literate level contains two levels of quotation; the upper level is block-quoting hunks of the Prometheus upstream guide for server authors. The overall effect is that one can read three different levels of quotation all at the same time. < 1763326651 953159 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: very few languages have a reason to write in order nowadays, apart from languages where declaration needs to precede use < 1763326730 28592 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Or inside expressions, e.g. ordering of pattern-matching clauses. < 1763326753 845493 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: hmm, now I'm imagining a pattern match split up all over the program < 1763326774 659198 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Thue? < 1763326792 658571 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in a way, that's what implementing an interface does (with the Java-ish OO meaning of "interface") < 1763326815 312033 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, no, Thue's explicitly non-deterministic in ordering. < 1763326844 19708 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there is some debate about what sort of nondeterminism is used < 1763326857 409401 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I consider it to be angelic nondeterminism, like is used in, e.g., context-free grammars < 1763326860 810960 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but some people think it's randomization < 1763326991 752541 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are weirder versions of nondeterminism too, e.g. Prolog attempts to simulate angelic nondeterminism but it has a defined evaluation order and ways to screw with the evaluation from inside < 1763327000 746224 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :meaning that the purity breaks down somewhat < 1763327010 328439 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :!, fail. < 1763327038 775350 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(that said, Prolog's evaluation order is fun to think about in an esoteric sort of way) < 1763327110 262378 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wonder whether ! started out as an optimisation primitive that was meant to be used only when it wouldn't change the semantics of the program and then got weirder over time as people started exploiting the undefined cases, or whether the weirdness was intended from the start < 1763327143 775328 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the optimisation-only cuts are apparently called "green cuts" by Prolog programmers, the ones that have an effect on control flow are "red cuts") > 1763327546 834597 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Iterate/Compilation14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168510 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+4635) 10Created page with "{{Back|Iterate}} For convenience, this page defines a more programmer-friendly version of Iterate that can be compiled into syntactically correct code. The compiled code should optimally be devoid of whitespace, since such isn't necessary to properly parse > 1763327587 43523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Iterate14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168511&oldid=168492 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+151) 10/* Syntax */ note compiler < 1763327722 804987 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-154-63.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1763327730 899509 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-154-63.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname < 1763328261 406716 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.9.1+deb2+b3 - https://znc.in < 1763328261 476080 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.9.1+deb2+b3 - https://znc.in < 1763328321 621902 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1763328335 956321 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse > 1763330150 340486 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168512&oldid=168363 5* 03Buckets 5* (+11) 10 > 1763330214 764450 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168513&oldid=168361 5* 03Buckets 5* (+12) 10 > 1763330259 465434 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Input Text Feild ,(comma) Please14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168514 5* 03Buckets 5* (+19) 10Redirected page to [[ITF,P]] > 1763330268 224122 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ITF,P14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168515 5* 03Buckets 5* (+1996) 10Created page with "ITF,P Is An Esoteric programming language created By [[User:Buckets]] in 2024 and Stands for "Input Text Feild ,(comma) Please". The Pseudo-Commands Are Exactly The same as [[brainfuck]]'s command set. {| class="wikitable" |+ The actual Commands |- ! Input Text-Dependen > 1763331525 865625 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07QuantaScript14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168516 5* 03Cyclic Tag 5* (+3468) 10Created page with "'''QuantaScript''' is an esolang made by Google Gemini prompted by Cyclic Tag. The language operates exclusively on a single stack that can hold values in one of three states: '''0''' (False/Down), '''1''' (True/Up), or '''?''' (Superposition). ==Concepts and D > 1763331846 872714 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Iterate14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168517&oldid=168511 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+23) 10[[Category:Low-level]] > 1763332945 619722 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168518&oldid=168475 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+4) 10/* Mod, MathConstants */ > 1763333471 332353 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168519&oldid=168518 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+1050) 10/* Enumeration */ < 1763333559 100417 :impomatic!~impomatic@82.132.184.43 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds > 1763333727 168854 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168520&oldid=168519 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+468) 10/* Mod, MathConstants */ > 1763333761 326812 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168521&oldid=168520 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+26) 10/* String Operations 1 */ > 1763334090 901069 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168522&oldid=168521 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+91) 10 < 1763334098 564992 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: it works, it's shorter (71 -> 60), but not sure how i feel about it. what do you think? https://0.vern.cc/S.txt > 1763334144 460112 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168523&oldid=168522 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+37) 10 < 1763334164 536521 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: looks fine to me > 1763334169 731039 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168524&oldid=168523 5* 03NTMDev 5* (-14) 10 > 1763334230 614932 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Main Page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168525&oldid=167820 5* 03NTMDev 5* (-3810) 10Blanked the page > 1763334236 60360 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Main Page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168526&oldid=168525 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+3810) 10 < 1763334273 656758 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it does use COND once, and it can be applied generically, and it's not even meaningfully slower, so that's definitely a plus, but... dunno... feels... yet even more complex. not in a bad way, but still... < 1763334307 166555 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but maybe that's just life with bf code...) < 1763334334 153613 :impomatic!~impomatic@82.132.185.149 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic < 1763334347 83787 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it took me a while to actually get it to work...) < 1763334605 324593 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the fact that COND is (==1) and the way it's constructed, it also means "-1" has to appear twice and same for "+1", so this doesn't help construction or readability either... < 1763334668 897418 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:c8e1:d9e5:9bcb:51af QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1763334834 245040 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASTLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168527&oldid=168524 5* 03NTMDev 5* (+865) 10/* Uppercase, Lowercase */ < 1763335106 477449 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :avih: not duplicating the conditional code that can be arbitrarily complex sounds like a win to me < 1763335150 405646 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it definitely is, it's the cost i'm not sure how i feel about < 1763335244 263226 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no complaint about your suggestion at all. i quite like it. and yet the result is still way more complex than i'd hoped for "while (==1) {+9; >>>}" < 1763335360 207222 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but again, this is only gut feeling. i don't have enough experience in bf to tell whether this should really be much smaller < 1763335389 978052 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :some short BF programs (like hello worlds) have been produced by computer search and they don't look much like human-written programs at all < 1763335419 957758 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so even if the program could be much smaller by using some obscure technique, it's unlikely that a human would be able to figure it out < 1763335421 84315 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i know, that's the kind of code which int-e produces manually :) < 1763335470 367280 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i know. not looking for obscure stuff which just fits this specific task. < 1763335516 337965 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but as a general thing for what i consider a relatively simple task, i would have expected less code. it's entirely possible my expectations are wrong in bf. < 1763335566 368488 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the way I think about it is that BF has commonly seen groups of commands that might act much like a single command in a higher-level language < 1763335576 251377 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but they generally take up much more space, so the program gets longer < 1763335611 851037 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm it does appear that way, yeah < 1763336574 729832 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think i might look at that bfmacro thing, to check what it produces for this kind of task. though the more general the language is (i presume the macros - i didn't really look into it so far), the more overhead the resulting code would have. still, would be interesting to see what it produces here. < 1763336654 356637 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I believe avih wants to strike a balance between preserving high-level structure and size, which is hard and inherently subjective. < 1763336708 825995 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because in my head, i think i try to do what bfmacro does. i.e. i'm hoping not to treat mini task as its own kind of puzzle to solve. that feels seriously unrealistic to use that approach, except when minimum size counts above everything else. > 1763336726 493935 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Burn14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168528&oldid=168499 5* 03Ais523 5* (+640) 10/* Thoughts on burn */ thoughts on thoughts on Burn < 1763336747 956228 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: why do you think it's subjective? < 1763336794 402933 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because you can trade size for clarity so it's a matter of which one you value more < 1763336822 785145 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, what matters more is subjective. on that i agree. < 1763336858 297975 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and did agree before too - it's a viable approach if size carries more weight than other things) < 1763337083 683854 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i'm also looking at it from a point of view of practically using bf to write something meaningful. as in, the general challenge to to form the solution approach, and typically the implementation is the relatively easy part if the approach is solid. but here it seems that the implementation itself is its own challenge too. < 1763337112 473235 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is* to form the approach < 1763337175 851356 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(i don't actually intend to write meaningful bf programs, but it's still the perspective i use even with simple things) < 1763337187 144398 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :unoptimising BF interpreters are normally really easy and boring unless you write them in an esolang, optimising BF interpreters is a really itneresting challenge though < 1763337199 894510 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :at least if you take the optimisations far enough < 1763337299 635097 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah. mine only does balanced loops so far. that's relatively trivial, but it already beats almost all the "optimizing" interpreters out there, with the exceptions of bffsree in some cases, and, more meaningfully, https://github.com/rdebath/Brainfuck < 1763337349 309156 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the next step in optimizing definitely involves graphs or some other higher level view at dependencies. < 1763337387 97433 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think if you go far enough your optimiser starts thinking in terms of counters and stacks, rather than the BF tape < 1763337400 892845 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :especially that link above is really amazing. not perfect, but really damn good. i judge by the c code it produces, which really handles multiple levels of nesting < 1763337430 948633 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's also ratiofall, my interpreter for The Waterfall Model, which is an interpreter for a counter machine but the problem of optimising that is basically equivalent to the problem of optimising balanced bignum BF < 1763337444 651460 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and of course tracking available knowledge at any point in time is a must as well < 1763337448 616835 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but the bignum is important, some of the optimisations don't really make sense except on programs that are using bignums to store data) < 1763337455 848500 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/tracking/maintaining/ < 1763337532 833728 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm.. i never considered bignum bf. i don't have a sense of where it differs from normal (wrapping cells) bf < 1763337554 801325 :avih!~quassel@23.94.231.119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(i get the diff, but not the sense of where it affects optimizations)