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00:34:12 <int-e> avih: Right, you can use one space less if you don't want to store result of the != 0 comparison anywhere.
00:35:05 <avih> yeah, my requirement is "if (==0) BODY" not "store (==0) someplace"
00:35:51 <avih> though i think this approach should work for that as well
00:38:23 <avih> as in >+<[>->]<<
00:38:43 <avih> err... not sure..
00:38:44 <int-e> you'd end up with >+<[>->]>[>>]<<<
00:39:10 <int-e> which should look vaguely familar :P
00:39:49 <avih> i think you're right
00:40:05 <int-e> Anyway, this is more of an idea than a fixed code pattern to me; I tend to consider various positions for landing pads and useful data and see what's shortest.
00:40:18 <int-e> All part of having dozens of variations of the code.
00:41:39 <avih> right. i'm more interested in having a catalog of patterns, but it doesn't mean there's no overlap. each case is a puzzle, but once solved, hopefully it's applicable elsewhere too
00:42:23 <int-e> the important thing is to have fun
00:42:33 <avih> i would _think_ that a pattern for "if (==X) BODY" and "while (==X) BODY" should be reusable
00:43:59 <avih> in contrast to, i think, pattern i've seen more often of "if (!=X) BODY", and the same with while, but these are much simpler to code.
00:49:36 <avih> btw, i did look at bfmacro to see if/how if solves it. i don't think it does. its macros are useful but largely trivial. it just composes them together which can save a lot of headache, but not the kind which is needed to implement "if (==X) BODY" (without changing the cell).
00:51:13 <avih> both its "if" and "while" are destructive. if you don't want that, good lock finding a solution on your own.
00:51:56 <avih> (but you do have a macro to make a copy and use that)
00:53:39 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168578&oldid=168447 * None1 * (-707)
00:53:56 <int-e> avih: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Asm2bf is a more serious BF generator
00:54:16 <esolangs> [[ALEFL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=168579 * None1 * (+2652) Created page with " '''ALEFL''' ('''A'''lpha-'''L'''ess '''E'''xception&'''F'''unction '''L'''anguage) is an esolang invented by [[User:None1]]. Just like its name, it uses no letters and control flow is done by exception and functions. ==Features== ===Type system=== There are only 2 types in
00:54:32 <avih> int-e: interesting. thx
00:54:41 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168580&oldid=168578 * None1 * (+8)
00:55:32 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168581&oldid=168574 * None1 * (+12) /* A */
01:01:11 <esolangs> [[Interpret Esolangs Online]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168582&oldid=166988 * None1 * (+39)
01:01:35 <esolangs> [[Interpret Esolangs Online]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168583&oldid=168582 * None1 * (+3) used the correct word
01:05:55 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168584&oldid=165925 * None1 * (+79)
01:10:05 <avih> int-e: actually: >+<[>-]>[>]<< so either the 1st or the 2nd are entered, one of them zeroes the ==0 cell, the other doesn't
01:11:10 <korvo> avih: Well, the standard tools are available, but they look more like `dup X = if BODY then` and `begin BODY dup X = until`; Brainfuck's model is not about preserving the contents of variable locations.
01:11:39 <esolangs> [[ALEFL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168585&oldid=168579 * None1 * (+25)
01:12:04 <avih> korvo: right, but the mental model of the dev is
01:12:34 <avih> so something has to interface it. a copy is indeed a solution in such case
01:12:37 <esolangs> [[SLet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168586&oldid=167151 * None1 * (+300) /* Implementation */
01:13:06 <esolangs> [[SLet]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168587&oldid=168586 * None1 * (+465) /* Implementation */
01:13:30 <esolangs> [[SLet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168588&oldid=168587 * None1 * (-229) /* Implementation */
01:13:53 <avih> well, at lease the general development mental model is non-destructive. but it's possible that "serious bf devs" do think in bf
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01:16:22 <korvo> I'm mostly thinking in Forth-like stack idioms. bfmacro was a non-trivial part of programs like https://github.com/MostAwesomeDude/bb-gauge/blob/main/bfm/laver.bfm which were originally written for stack automata.
01:16:49 <avih> i don't know Forth...
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01:38:59 <korvo> No worries. It's rare today. Used to be rare too. Still is.
01:45:58 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168589&oldid=168561 * NTMDev * (-23)
01:49:04 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168590&oldid=168589 * NTMDev * (+399) /* Formatting strings */
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02:06:12 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168591&oldid=168590 * NTMDev * (+1754) /* Max and Min */
02:06:43 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168592&oldid=168591 * NTMDev * (-3) /* = */
02:07:28 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168593&oldid=168592 * NTMDev * (+12) /* Getting Started */
02:09:16 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168594&oldid=168593 * NTMDev * (+266) /* Formatting strings */
02:10:19 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168595&oldid=168594 * NTMDev * (-4) /* Slicing = */
02:15:31 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168596&oldid=168595 * NTMDev * (+556) /* Filtering (based on Condition) */
02:15:56 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168597&oldid=168596 * NTMDev * (+4) /* Filtering (based on Function) */
02:19:34 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168598&oldid=168597 * NTMDev * (+438) /* Splitting a String */
02:20:05 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168599&oldid=168598 * NTMDev * (+10) /* Print */
02:20:25 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168600&oldid=168599 * NTMDev * (-160) /* Print */
02:23:27 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168601&oldid=168600 * NTMDev * (+518) /* Bugs */
02:24:25 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168602&oldid=168601 * NTMDev * (+152) /* Bugs */
02:24:50 <esolangs> [[ASTLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168603&oldid=168602 * NTMDev * (+12) /* Bugs */
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02:35:58 <esolangs> [[Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168604&oldid=168526 * NTMDev * (+197)
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02:41:06 <esolangs> [[Main Page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168605&oldid=168604 * Corbin * (-197) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/168604|168604]] by [[Special:Contributions/NTMDev|NTMDev]] ([[User talk:NTMDev|talk]]): Wikis are foundationally oriented around the principle that user edits are quick (Hawaiian: "wiki wiki") to appear for everybody. Like most wikis, we rely on co
03:11:43 <zzo38> The Minsky (nearly) circle algorithm can be made as a Matrix as [1,-epsilon;epsilon,1-epsilon^2]. If you set epsilon=i then you can make Fibonacci numbers.
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05:44:19 <esolangs> [[110010000100110110010]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168606&oldid=168577 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-9) not a stub
05:50:50 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168607&oldid=134565 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+9)
05:51:43 <esolangs> [[Brainyay]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168608&oldid=167950 * PhiPhiPHIpHi * (-61)
05:52:44 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168609&oldid=168607 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-12) /* syntax */
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06:40:44 <esolangs> [[Readable]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168610&oldid=167918 * None1 * (+179) Explain why it isn't ambiguous
06:54:31 <esolangs> [[Readable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168611&oldid=168610 * None1 * (+252) /* Commands */
06:55:55 <esolangs> [[Readable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168612&oldid=168611 * None1 * (+223) Added Python interpreter and implemented category tag
06:57:16 <esolangs> [[Deadfish/Implementations (M-Z)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168613&oldid=162603 * None1 * (+2289) /* Raku */ Add Readable implementation of deadfish
07:00:13 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-S)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168614&oldid=166421 * None1 * (+346) /* RASEL */ Add Readable implementation
07:01:37 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168615&oldid=168584 * None1 * (+0) /* My Esolangs */
07:49:28 <esolangs> [[Brainyay]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168616&oldid=168608 * PhiPhiPHIpHi * (+2122)
07:50:22 <esolangs> [[Brainyay]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168617&oldid=168616 * PhiPhiPHIpHi * (+1)
07:55:16 <esolangs> [[Brainyay]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168618&oldid=168617 * PhiPhiPHIpHi * (+404)
08:01:43 <esolangs> [[Brainyay]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168619&oldid=168618 * PhiPhiPHIpHi * (+174)
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09:56:34 <APic> Moin ais523 βΊ
10:24:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: that seems correct, but it gives only every other Fibonacci number, so you might want to use the matrix [1,1;1,0] instead, as suggested by Concrete Mathematics
10:26:55 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168620&oldid=168609 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+32) /* overview */
10:28:40 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=168621&oldid=168620 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+1) /* syntax */
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