< 1772928179 685248 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I have decided that analog sticks are actually a fairly terrible input method
< 1772928186 420337 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(after a lot of experimentation with an actual game controller)
< 1772928191 537835 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the d-pad and face buttons are promising
< 1772928460 294488 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what about the shoulder buttons?
< 1772928481 209552 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :probably modifier keys
< 1772928579 474186 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :shoulder and bumper buttons*
< 1772929225 12564 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :they're a bit like the shift keys on keyboards
< 1772929232 907412 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can use them but they're awkward to press at the same time as keys near them
< 1772929269 772482 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it's possible but slows you down a bit – professional typists used to be taught to always use the shift key on the hand opposite the one they were pressing the key they were shifting with)
< 1772929281 154901 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :really? I haven't encountered that issue
< 1772929297 853973 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :probably because I always use my left pinky for left shift
< 1772929388 615128 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can also only really use your thumbs to press the d-pad and face buttons so those ones would be left to your index and middle fingers
< 1772929395 248855 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :pretty easy to press at the same time
< 1772929406 93757 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I don't think that applies to the controller, at least the way I imagine you're using it. for keyboard, you have to move your hand position to reach the shift keys with your 5th finger because they're in an awkward position, and that affects the fingers on the same hand. but on a controller, your 1st or 2nd fingers are pressing the shoulder/trigger/bumper buttons, and I think that doesn't 
< 1772929412 99647 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :influence much how you're handling the d-pad and face buttons with your thumbs.
< 1772929435 793891 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: exactly
< 1772929459 840230 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I actually found it affected me more on a controller – I normally use the little finger on my same hand for pressing shift, but on the controller I was having problems pressing the right bumper and right face buttons at the same time
< 1772929463 362772 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the problem is that there are too few combinations. only like 4*5*4 because I assume two shoulder buttons can be in 4 combinations, d-pad can be neutral or one of four directions, and while holding these you press one of the four face buttons.
< 1772929493 63918 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can press the diagonals reliably on a d-pad, and can on most designs press two adjacent face buttons reliably as well
< 1772929512 616437 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although, there will be a glitch on the way to the diagonal where it looks orthogonal, and your program needs to take that into account
< 1772929528 986349 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, that might give you enough combinations then
< 1772929557 838070 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I found two systems that were usable, the second one is actually fairly fast even with only an hour or so of practice
< 1772929561 439632 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I'm still refining it
< 1772929575 946078 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I need to work out how much of the frequency of "g" in English is from "ing" and how much is other uses
< 1772929616 656793 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :are independent button presses (only d-pad/only one face button) counted as a keystroke?
< 1772929646 199327 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or reserved for other uses
< 1772929694 633819 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :based on my experimentation, I think you want to use independent presses as much as possible
< 1772929702 843828 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :they might be slightly slower than pairs but they have much lower cognitive load
< 1772929756 251290 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :let's see, my word frequency data has 9606573871 "ing", 32721311168 "g", so about one third of "g"s come from "ing"
> 1772929798 132513 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177477&oldid=177431 5* 03InLuaIKnow 5* (+579) 10
< 1772929825 575835 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :interesting
> 1772929855 567356 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177478&oldid=177453 5* 03InLuaIKnow 5* (+10) 10/* Non-alphabetic */
< 1772930055 972306 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w*g\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
< 1772930057 766849 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :get got gotten go gone knowingly canning good goodness liking right rightful rightfully rightly rightness seeing thinking thought give gave given giving something telling tellingly thing through wrought again against although though anything begin began begun big bring brought caring change changed changing during government great greatly greatness group high highly highness homing including interesting interestingly large largely lasting long longish lovi
< 1772930217 474720 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/^\w*g\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
< 1772930218 715175 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :get go good right give something thing through again against although anything begin big bring change during government great group high large long might night nothing program age ago along among college design enough everything fight figure game general girl grow guy light morning sign strong suggest together wrong young according agency agree argue average building campaign challenge charge congress daughter degree dog drug eight energy evening feeling f
> 1772930258 536714 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Righght14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177479&oldid=177362 5* 03Cool Bungle 5* (+1) 10
< 1772930607 386307 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: is that a list of the most common words that contain "g"?
< 1772930622 57004 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah no, "although" doesn't
< 1772930631 205474 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh yes it does
< 1772930633 142641 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :just a hidden one
< 1772930676 500148 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the existence of the "gh" digraph was already an obstacle for me earlier, by throwing off phonetics-based reasoning about which letter combinations were likely
< 1772930949 157276 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yes
< 1772930971 664381 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :<b_jonas> `perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w*k\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
< 1772930975 642342 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w*k\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
< 1772930976 671108 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :know knew knowingly known like liking look make take taken took think thinking back lifelike okay OK talk work works ask childlike keep kept thank thankful thankfully thankless thanks week weeks black blackness book booked bookish break broke broken businesslike kid kidding kill killed kind kindly market marketing pick quick quickly quickness speak spoke spoken walk walking warlike attack bank banking block blocked check checked checking dark darkly darkne
< 1772930983 351223 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry for misquoting you
< 1772931046 239308 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, I forgot about leading "kn", it didn't come up in the words I was testing on
< 1772931059 119100 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w*q[^u]\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
< 1772931060 859054 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Iraqi IQ) HQ)
< 1772931071 654190 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :parenthesis?
< 1772931117 695865 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think there are many words starting "nk", I could use that as an alternative
< 1772931161 937713 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :aadenboy: https://wordlist.aspell.net/12dicts-readme/#223frq search for "parenthisized"
< 1772931202 698612 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :they don't follow the normal methodology of how Alan created this list
< 1772931242 993962 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :gotcha
< 1772931278 603040 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though I don't understand how the regex matches the parenthesis part or how it gets printed otherwise
< 1772931293 406930 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, [^u]
< 1772931307 943929 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm
< 1772931358 299150 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w*q[^u]*\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
< 1772931359 371282 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :question quick quickly quickness quite require required cheque quality quiet quietly quietness consequence equal equally equipment frequent frequently quarter request requested square squared squarely technique unique uniquely uniqueness acquire acquired adequate adequately equivalent frequency inquiry enquiry Iraqi) \  qualify qualified qualifying queen quit quote quoted requirement sequence sequencing squeeze squeezing subsequent subsequently acquisition
< 1772931367 959211 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no
< 1772931386 74416 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not what I wanted to do
< 1772931398 353705 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :eh
< 1772931445 720817 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :try /\w*q(?!u)\w*/ig
< 1772931508 454113 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w*q(?!u)\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
< 1772931510 503474 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Iraqi IQ HQ
< 1772931518 273340 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :figured same results
< 1772931521 894128 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :got rid of the parentheses though
< 1772931549 192333 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :silly english orthography rules
< 1772931738 608261 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :uh oh, "pocketknife" (all other "kn" words I've found have it at the start or after [csnlraeiouy])
< 1772931768 586111 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, and "slipknot"/"topknot" have it after a "p"
> 1772931771 418343 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177480&oldid=177477 5* 03InLuaIKnow 5* (+28) 10
< 1772931787 874142 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :all compounds!
< 1772931814 829194 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :looks like neither "tnk" nor "pnk" are in any word in my word list, so I can just allow those to be used to write "tkn"/"pkn"
< 1772931835 658420 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aadenboy: most rare letter combinations only appear in the middle of compound words
< 1772931875 539900 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that makes sense
< 1772931900 350617 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what causes all these problem is that I'm working on a system where the only way to type certain combinations is to insert an extra letter and then backspace over it
< 1772931912 503259 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and trying to ensure that those combinations never come up in actual words
< 1772931949 599392 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :English spelling and pronunciation is, while not regular, regular enough that you can mostly prove combinations impossible based on things like voicing
< 1772931971 988959 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but! normally the voiced version of a voiceable letter is rare than the unvoiced version
< 1772931992 653850 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is true for most letters but "k" is much rarer than "g", even if you add a special case for "-ing" to remove those "g" from the frequencies
< 1772932044 411776 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I have been experimenting with swapping "k" and "g" for ease of typing, but that allows some untypeable combinations to sneak through and thus I need special cases for them
< 1772932213 428655 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in the system I'm working on any letter can appear after [aeiouylr] so those aren't problematic, any letter can appear before a vowel, and "cg", "sg", "mk" basically never appear before consonants so they can be used for "ck", "sk", "nk" respectively
< 1772932250 966370 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/q/79223/ lists a bunch of letter combinations that appear as infix in only one english word, such as "rsd" which only occurs in "thursday"
< 1772932258 802401 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but words like "knickknack" and "pocketknife" break the typing rules
< 1772932268 253495 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: ooh, interesting, I'll see how many fit my rules
< 1772932272 232047 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which I think suggests that you'll run into a lot of such problmes
< 1772932322 32332 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :let's see how many would be problematic
< 1772932412 261840 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"ekb" would be problematic if followed by another consonant (except l or r); everything else is typable regardless of context
< 1772932486 58841 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, "hq" couldn't be typed if not followed by "u", but I'm kind-of assuming there's a u there :-D
< 1772932537 759845 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :on the other hand, I once searched Irregular Webcomics for rare letter pairs at the *start* of words, as a way to find typos. the most common false positives were words like "fhtangn" that appear related to Cthulhu. I also learned that "aj" starts only one english word, "ajar", but there are basically no other letter pairs that start only one word. in theory there's "bdellium" but that's a word I only 
< 1772932543 762850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :encounter when people talk about strange words.
< 1772932618 703938 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :TAOCP talks about starting letter pairs in english language by the way, in volume 3 
< 1772932652 732678 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :believe it or not "fhtangn" doesn't break any of my rules about which letters can appear next to which
< 1772932710 308736 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the basic idea I have is to assign 16 of the most common letters to the 16 possible presses of one thumb (orthogonals and diagonals of the thumbs on each hand)
< 1772932733 410515 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then for the other 8, you keep holding the letter you pressed with one hand while you press the next letter with the other
< 1772932776 413732 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it wasn't just "fhtangn", that's just the most common of those words
< 1772932780 23432 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and that swaps the consonant out for a rarer version, so it works if the rare consonant is either preceded or followed by a vowel (l and r are vowels)
< 1772932816 653419 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to clarify, l and r aren't *always* vowels in English, but they're vowels often enough that I put them on the vowels thumb to avoid conflicts (along with y)
< 1772932833 979567 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I get r, but l?
< 1772932862 961111 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"dazzle" is a good example
< 1772932889 695243 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm
< 1772932896 127409 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can't pronounce that word without holding the "l" vowel-style, because the "e" is silent
< 1772932931 437709 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :of course if you want this for programming then the user will often type things that aren't english words
< 1772932934 692325 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w+l\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
< 1772932935 959129 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :knowingly all could justly rightful rightfully rightly timeless well wellness will willful willfully would also call called evenly firstly lifeless lifelike little manliness manly needless needlessly only overly people real really should still stillness talk tell telling tellingly told useful usefully usefulness useless although always badly believe careful carefully careless carelessly carelessness child childish childless childlike children close closed 
< 1772932968 614669 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't believe "knowingly" is the most common word containing an "l" not at the start, maybe it's in a comment
< 1772932982 883248 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: well, I think programming will mostly be using intellisense-style autocomplete
< 1772932993 162830 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so this would only be necessary for comments and newly introduced variable names
< 1772933034 34145 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w+[^aeiou]e?l\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
< 1772933035 291095 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :knowingly all justly rightfully rightly timeless well wellness will willful willfully call called evenly firstly lifeless lifelike little manliness manly needless needlessly only overly people really still stillness tell telling tellingly usefully useless badly carefully careless carelessly carelessness childless childlike closely differently early endless endlessly faceless fatherless fatherly friendliness friendly greatly headless helpfully helpless help
< 1772933037 662461 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: no, this is a lemmatized word list, so "knowingly" appears under the heading of "know", and "know" is common
< 1772933149 432821 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, out of those words, "all", "could", "people", "should", "talk", "told", "although", "always", "child", "childless", "childlike" are using "l" in a vowel-like way
< 1772933164 233432 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :interestingly, "children" isn't
< 1772933181 893544 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and that changes the pronounciation of the first "i" compared to "child"/"childless"/"childlike"
< 1772933187 132853 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :for keyboard testing you probably want 12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3lem.txt instead to check if the most frequent words work
< 1772933198 676037 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because that lists all the plurals and inflections
< 1772933200 866614 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, I already have a word frequency list on my computer
< 1772933216 228756 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not lemmatized or even case-quotiented
< 1772933230 574519 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3lem.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w+(?<![aeiou])e?l(?![aiou])\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
< 1772933232 565791 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :No output.
< 1772933246 149505 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w+(?<![aeiou])e?l(?![aiou])\w*/gi){ print "$& " }}
< 1772933247 998838 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :knowingly all justly rightfully rightly timeless well wellness will willful willfully call called evenly firstly lifeless little manly needless needlessly only overly people really still stillness tell telling tellingly usefully useless badly carefully careless carelessly carelessness childless closely differently early endless endlessly faceless fatherless fatherly felt friendly greatly headless help helped helpful helpfully helpless helplessly helplessne
< 1772933257 574558 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :forgot to include y
< 1772933260 96533 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :aadenboy: it's not in HackEso, sorry. I didn't upload the whole 12dicts
< 1772933272 473971 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The with a capital T is the tenth most common word when you don't case-quotient, apparently
< 1772933288 634394 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the of and to in a is that for The
< 1772933294 548217 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :aadenboy: you can download them from https://wordlist.aspell.net/12dicts/ and even upload any of it to HackEso if you want
< 1772933298 345768 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(based on google ngrams data)
< 1772933321 315626 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`cat /hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/readme.hackeso
< 1772933323 19117 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :http://wordlist.aspell.net/12dicts/
< 1772933365 294012 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3lem.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w+(?<![aeiou])e?l(?![aeiouy])\w+|\w+(?<![aeiou])e?les?\b/gi){ print "$& " }}
< 1772933366 187714 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :No output.
< 1772933375 953787 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :whoops
< 1772933384 438949 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`perl -eopen$R,"/hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/Lemmatized/2+2+3frq.txt"; while(<$R>){while(/\w+(?<![aeiou])e?l(?![aeiouy])\w+|\w+(?<![aeiou])e?les?\b/gi){ print "$& " }}
< 1772933386 559288 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :well wellness willful willfully little people stillness tell telling tellingly felt help helped helpful helpfully helpless helplessly helplessness held smallness world worldly able fell fullness himself modelling possible probable sell selling simple table article available cell couple example handle hell hellish herself itself middle myself single skillful skillfully style themselves trouble welcome welcoming yourself yourselves battle bottle circle comfo
< 1772933432 134890 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuts off comfortable
< 1772934033 954226 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wrote a regex to find words that have conflicts under my system
< 1772934043 279976 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :most of them end -ms, I think I need a special case for that
< 1772934139 197947 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, -sms specifically
< 1772934161 700648 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's easy enough to add a special case for
< 1772934247 566034 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :m versus n in English is a complicated topic, they're almost allophones and act like that in a lot of contexts, but in some words the difference is important
< 1772934265 932110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I don't think I completely understood what you said earlier, but (1) it sounds like you're making a system where one hand presses the vowels and the other hand the consonants. I think that's a good idea of which the dvorak keyboard is a bad execution. (2) it sounds like you're making a system where most of the common letters are typed by single keys (or combinations of two adjacent keys pressed 
< 1772934271 939500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :with one digit). that sounds dangerous, because that can result in a system where it's easy to type fast but if you try to speed up then presses from different hands or digits will start to overlap in time, and if you assign those overlapping combinations new meanings that can break your typing.
< 1772934298 958540 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I originally tried it the other way, where overlapping was the default
< 1772934315 276357 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but half the time you're pressing two keys in a row with the same hand anyway, so it sets a speed limit
< 1772934355 496945 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it turns out that to avoid conflicts the letters that require overlaps mostly need to be rare anyway ("d" is common and typed by overlapping, but that's the only one)
< 1772934372 857398 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I think the normal idea is that some buttons are (almost) always shifts that don't do anything by themselves, while the rest of the keys are triggers that emit an output, possibly a different output depending on what other keys you're holding. you can relax this a little, but you have to be careful how.
< 1772934402 959592 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I know, I tried several systems that worked like that first
< 1772934445 346425 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I didn't like them, I was very slow with them and frequently I would freeze up trying to work out how to input the next character
< 1772934519 405051 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I never tried to design to your goals, and I probably never will, for two reasons: (1) I don't like game controllers, I think that they're mostly controlled by thumb is uncomfortable, and (2) I don't want to type things on the bus/tram, I'm already spending too much of the time at home and at work at a computer, I don't want to do it even during travel time, and that's part of the reason why I don't 
< 1772934525 412038 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :have a smartphone.
< 1772934621 765878 :amby!~ambylastn@host-78-151-24-174.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement
< 1772934686 220667 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm… "diaphragms", "paradigm", "mnemonic(s)", "xterm", and a lot of words starting "dw"
< 1772934691 754108 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :everything else is a loanword
< 1772934754 186290 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* "paradigms"
< 1772934792 845464 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :what's that word list?
< 1772934800 54167 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :/usr/share/dict/words
< 1772934806 350513 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not comprehensive but probably good enough for this
< 1772934811 621602 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, I mean the one starting with diaphragms
< 1772934820 506450 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for "diaphragms"/"paradigms" I guess I have to type the ending as "kms"? "gns" would be easier to type but some words actually end like that
< 1772934829 700490 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: the only remaining words with conflicts
< 1772934999 806320 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :leading mn could be spelled as nn or nm, neither of those appears at the start of a word
< 1772935020 600535 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I hope when you get a stable system from this you document it somewhere
< 1772935028 629077 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :will need to implement it
< 1772935040 482033 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so far I've just been holding the controller and pressing the buttons, without anything reading it
< 1772935049 859814 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah
< 1772935181 491808 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :leading dw is awkward, it's only two letters so everything you might type instead conflicts, maybe "duu" would work?
< 1772935195 943899 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :OK, yes, no words contain duu
< 1772935261 898778 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or maybe I can add it as a special case like j and qu are – those special cases require the next letter to always be a vowel, but it is in those cases
< 1772935343 946327 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and is for "dw" too
< 1772935382 72801 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :heh, three of these special cases contain w: wh, dw, and qu which is kw
< 1772936020 844232 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1772936104 326258 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan JOIN #esolangs dbohdan :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1772937096 419431 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1772937128 148185 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan JOIN #esolangs dbohdan :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1772937507 599722 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://cellua.miraheze.org/wiki/Force_notation I think this could be a good foundation for an esolang
< 1772937546 969022 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for its intended purpose it's rather verbose and hard to interpret (and just isn't used on the wiki anyways) but it could be augmented for programming in general
< 1772937587 326536 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idk what that would look like though
< 1772939043 164495 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1772939103 951080 :op_4!~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1772939144 419134 :op_4!~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473 JOIN #esolangs op_4 :op_4
< 1772939173 327686 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan JOIN #esolangs dbohdan :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1772939616 138902 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1772947285 349470 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Septem Lingua14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177481&oldid=177366 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+114) 10
> 1772947332 803409 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Septem Lingua14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177482&oldid=177481 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+1) 10
> 1772947365 74345 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Septem Lingua14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177483&oldid=177482 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+15) 10
> 1772947407 829677 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ima gte. Ima dana14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177484 5* 03BODOKE2801e 5* (+2164) 10Created page with "'''Ima gte. Ima dana''' is a [[Joke language list|Joke language]] made by [[User:BODOKE2801e]], it just doesn't make sense  ==Syntax==  {| class="wikitable" |+ |- ! Syntax !! Action |- | Say "Hello" to [x]! || Creates new variable x |- | BEGONE [x]!!!! || 
> 1772947457 685568 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ima gte. Ima dana14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177485&oldid=177484 5* 03BODOKE2801e 5* (+0) 10
< 1772948694 617526 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1772949770 893940 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :goodnight
< 1772949774 534452 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 QUIT :Quit: goodbye for now! back another day
> 1772952857 931740 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177486&oldid=177476 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+273) 10/* why */
< 1772954196 483317 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
> 1772954304 829478 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07No.pe.14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177487&oldid=176541 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+16) 10
> 1772955044 129647 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ConstantLanguage()14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177488&oldid=169079 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+178) 10
< 1772955235 791503 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan JOIN #esolangs dbohdan :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1772956797 818003 :msv!~msv@user/msv JOIN #esolangs msv :msv
> 1772958239 798801 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Dragoneater6714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177489&oldid=177470 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+50) 10
< 1772960267 978386 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had a realization about the syntax of conditionals in Columnar. So previously I had the idea that the question mark and exclamation mark should be operands on their own that take an integer input from their column and make the following operator run conditionally only if that input is nonzero or zero respectively. But no, the question mark and exclamation mark shouldn't be infections, they should be 
< 1772960273 988952 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :prefixes for other infections. If you put a question mark before one of the infection marks ~ ` ' ^ - then that should turn that from a normal input operand into a condition input, and similarly an exclamation mark to a negated condition. And if you put the question mark or exclamation mark directly before the operator, that should mean that it's conditional on the implicit input from the column where 
< 1772960279 996968 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that operator is (in which case that column can't also be a normal input to the operator). 
< 1772960283 1136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :This is definitely more verbose, but I think more suitable for the language.
< 1772960335 469088 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :These conditionals can then be used on a goto operator (which I think will be spelled as a left parenthesis) for ordinary flow control, or on any normal function call. 
< 1772960432 439925 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also if you put them before a dot or comma, which are inflections for output operands, then a conditional doesn't make sense, so that case can be overloaded for some other meaning in the future if necessary, although I already have other prefix/suffix characters that I can use that way.
< 1772960916 710659 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi
> 1772961565 693670 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177490&oldid=177478 5* 03C0ffee 5* (+15) 10
> 1772961681 182924 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177491&oldid=173727 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+383) 10
> 1772962308 653127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MikuLang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177492&oldid=176957 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+111) 10Small fix
< 1772962461 114138 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1772975957 975732 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dotfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177493&oldid=137536 5* 03None1 5* (+1) 10/* Execution */
< 1772976839 838321 :amby!~ambylastn@host-78-151-24-174.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
> 1772977104 594719 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07NS!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177494&oldid=153900 5* 03Zopium 5* (+85) 10
> 1772980671 617384 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box/14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=177495 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+646) 10Created page with "Some useless code written when going crazy  = C++ = <pre> int main() {     return 0; } </pre> <pre> int main() {     main(); } </pre> <pre> int main() {     cout; } </pre> <pre> int main() {     while(0) {}; return
< 1772985430 571116 :impomatic!~impomatic@lock-04-b2-v4wan-171175-cust377.vm10.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
> 1772988911 988291 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Ualkc 5*  10New user account
< 1772988925 875294 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina JOIN #esolangs Lykaina :Lykaina Wolfe
> 1772989262 968431 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth6414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177496&oldid=177469 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+17) 10Adding notice that page describes a certain version of the code (v0.7). Need to update page to current version (v0.8.1).
> 1772989506 750796 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177497&oldid=177408 5* 03Ualkc 5* (+229) 10/* Introductions */
> 1772989946 705846 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177498&oldid=174470 5* 03Ualkc 5* (+57) 10
> 1772991429 752571 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth6414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177499&oldid=177496 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+469) 10/* Words */ Adding info on multiple definition words.
> 1772991497 832586 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth6414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177500&oldid=177499 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+2) 10Updating to version 0.8.1 (current version).
< 1772994194 443176 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 JOIN #esolangs * :11,8aadenboy — it's pronounced [ˈejˌdɛnb�
< 1772994203 921709 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :good morning!
> 1772994492 823919 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ima gte. Ima dana14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177501&oldid=177485 5* 03BODOKE2801e 5* (+355) 10/* Complex */
< 1772994947 325842 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :G'Night
< 1772995081 89184 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 PRIVMSG #esolangs :goodnight APic
< 1772995307 787607 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1772997059 548567 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi sgeo
> 1772998445 918184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth6414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177502&oldid=177500 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+25) 10/* Words */ Noticed I forgot something.
> 1772998894 39801 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth6414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177503&oldid=177502 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+0) 10/* Dictionary Code */ Giving word JUMP a clearer equivalent definition.
> 1772999153 873159 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Voiced dental fricative14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177504&oldid=98194 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+770) 10Added a hyperlink to my implementation on GitHub, changed the Unimplemented page category tag to Implemented, and improved the grammar and formatting.
< 1772999376 148954 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1772999511 125042 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1773003186 994661 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.107.12 QUIT :Quit: goodbye for now! back another day
< 1773004300 494581 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1773005758 563035 :impomatic!~impomatic@lock-04-b2-v4wan-171175-cust377.vm10.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1773009186 20625 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ima gte. Ima dana14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177505&oldid=177501 5* 03BODOKE2801e 5* (+96) 10/* Syntax */
> 1773009361 170345 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ima gte. Ima dana14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177506&oldid=177505 5* 03BODOKE2801e 5* (+73) 10/* Syntax */
> 1773009377 868020 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ima gte. Ima dana14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=177507&oldid=177506 5* 03BODOKE2801e 5* (+3) 10/* Syntax */
< 1773012590 462820 :chloetax!~chloe@user/chloetax QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1773013048 748964 :chloetax!~chloe@user/chloetax JOIN #esolangs chloetax :chloe