< 1775263662 647009 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-153-130.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement < 1775266903 164154 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1775271943 855925 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38 < 1775274185 347941 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :In RISC-V specification, in https://docs.riscv.org/reference/isa/unpriv/zihintntl.html table 1 seems to be missing size bounds. What is that table supposed to be saying? This problem is present in both the HTML and PDF versions of the manual. < 1775275010 568141 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Oh, great. This used to be a .tex file: https://github.com/riscv/riscv-isa-manual/blob/cd9764fde9c704fb63e519eb7774e224835ee5f8/src/zihintntl.tex#L68-L84 < 1775275094 800113 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the next commit removes the .tex file; you can see the .adoc version right beside it and it's missing the numbers) < 1775276979 380652 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had thought, if the graphics card that I had described would be made, although 3D graphics is not one of the features I had considered important, I would consider video playback to be one; you might want to play two videos at once for the purpose of comparison but I think not more than two at once would be needed. < 1775277019 144419 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :When doing video playback, I had considered that the low 4-bits of each channel can be used for opacity so that you can overlay translucent captions on the video. < 1775278988 345630 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :goodnight < 1775278991 929426 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 QUIT :Quit: goodbye for now! back another day < 1775281690 627110 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:e1ce:6e3d:131b:e771 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Yayimhere < 1775281698 233237 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:e1ce:6e3d:131b:e771 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi > 1775282015 155249 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:MihaiEso14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178956&oldid=172459 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+24) 10/* My targets */ < 1775282691 623299 :impomatic!~impomatic@lock-04-b2-v4wan-171175-cust377.vm10.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic < 1775283297 146578 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) > 1775283929 146081 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mathlang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178957&oldid=178486 5* 03Esolang lover123 5* (+129) 10fixed some stuff < 1775284774 855374 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1775286028 674230 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:795f:6a6f:7cb5:ecd6 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1775289883 503603 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:795f:6a6f:7cb5:ecd6 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1775290450 522049 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:795f:6a6f:7cb5:ecd6 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1775291214 394117 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere/INFINITIES14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178958 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+405) 10Created page with "this is a notation for infinities, which I think can reach pretty dang high in the hierarchy of infinities: * E[0](x,y) = y * E[1](x,y) = x + y * yJ[z](x) = E[z](x,y) * E[n+1](x,y) = 1775291222 825453 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Eliloulou10 5* 10New user account > 1775291784 782291 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178959&oldid=178953 5* 03Eliloulou10 5* (+240) 10 > 1775292291 162151 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere/INFINITIES14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178960&oldid=178958 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-34) 10 > 1775292436 255244 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere/INFINITIES14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178961&oldid=178960 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+87) 10 > 1775292594 550915 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere/INFINITIES14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178962&oldid=178961 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+39) 10 > 1775293057 598639 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere/INFINITIES14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178963&oldid=178962 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+53) 10 > 1775293215 680504 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mathlang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178964&oldid=178957 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (-14) 10better formatting > 1775293227 373628 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mathlang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178965&oldid=178964 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+5) 10 < 1775293311 771792 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1775293505 362358 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mathlang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178966&oldid=178965 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+54) 10/* Implementations */ > 1775293547 944163 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Super-Easy-Lang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178967&oldid=178401 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+2) 10/* Cat program */ > 1775293687 629427 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Super-Easy-Lang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178968&oldid=178967 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+140) 10 > 1775293851 946905 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RaiseAfloppaFan392514]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178969&oldid=178410 5* 03RaiseAfloppaFan3925 5* (+447) 10forgot one esolang > 1775293869 159822 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Spore14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178970&oldid=178952 5* 03Dragoneater67mobile 5* (+52) 10 < 1775294837 624568 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:e1ce:6e3d:131b:e771 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1775295219 319677 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Super-Easy-Lang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178971&oldid=178968 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+79) 10 < 1775295749 269400 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1775295774 114545 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) > 1775296652 13892 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178972&oldid=178288 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-182) 10/* ppl i like and dont like */ < 1775297006 622407 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Yayimhere < 1775297010 13043 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi! < 1775297013 804581 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(again) < 1775297512 629723 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi < 1775297662 338500 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 QUIT :Quit: dragoneater67 < 1775297679 607441 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 JOIN #esolangs dragoneater67 :dragoneater67 < 1775297685 790807 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i accidentally left lol > 1775297688 191275 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mathlang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178973&oldid=178966 5* 03Esolang lover123 5* (+405) 10 > 1775297732 982177 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mathlang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178974&oldid=178973 5* 03Dragoneater67 5* (+1) 10/* */ grrr where spaces < 1775297946 558705 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi dragoneater67! < 1775297949 822755 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hru? < 1775297993 20564 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :gud < 1775298007 105516 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice. Me too < 1775298020 691612 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, whats that {{User's path|username=User:Yayimhere}} thing on your userpage for? < 1775298036 722343 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh thats kinda a meme of sorts < 1775298044 58728 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cool < 1775298049 136301 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, may I give you a challenge? < 1775298051 586123 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol < 1775298063 810745 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea < 1775298068 644542 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im bored rn < 1775298092 748859 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :solve https://esolangs.org/wiki/Final_Word_Of_The_Day < 1775298104 293604 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and feeel free. to ask any questions while trying) > 1775298183 928463 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mathlang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178975&oldid=178974 5* 03Esolang lover123 5* (+72) 10 < 1775298190 59474 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok < 1775298208 13262 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cool < 1775300905 434636 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs SGautam :Siddharth Gautam > 1775302951 376209 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Dragoneater6714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178976&oldid=178703 5* 03Dragoneater67 5* (+151) 10 > 1775303502 500202 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Dragoneater6714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178977&oldid=178976 5* 03Dragoneater67 5* (+21) 10whynot < 1775303538 162922 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :dragoneatter67 thats not used for user pages, its used for like moderately famous people in our community > 1775304630 111236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Dragoneater6714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178978&oldid=178977 5* 03Dragoneater67 5* (-21) 10 < 1775304638 831623 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok i removed it < 1775304645 648207 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cool < 1775304777 343143 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ive come to conclusion that first 2 properties are trivially cheesed < 1775304793 799696 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cheesed? < 1775304794 389546 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :just have a command called MIAU that prints MIAU < 1775304816 352438 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea, but then MIAUMIAU would also be a quine < 1775304840 105285 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :just make MIAU halt < 1775304852 132873 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :MIAU prints MIAU then halts < 1775304881 867646 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that works! you cant have any other printing though < 1775304899 165921 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ya still have to fix the narcissist thing < 1775304905 242571 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I haven't heard the word "cheesing" applied to esolangs before, but I like it – it fits very well, analogous with the same context in computer games < 1775304918 298341 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi < 1775304933 245776 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the looping counter... < 1775304935 342015 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: true < 1775304984 106811 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my general idea is that since arbitrary i/o is not neccessary, so i can just restrict it enough to fit very specific usecases < 1775304994 995158 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea > 1775305253 19220 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Final Word Of The Day14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178979&oldid=178219 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-31) 10 < 1775305413 468871 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: thank you < 1775305705 430494 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :btw dragoneater67, I think the narrcicist thing cna be done by making the input command always do narrcicist stuff < 1775306114 877451 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:795f:6a6f:7cb5:ecd6 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1775307147 750517 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03 5* 10New user account > 1775307703 407770 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Dragoneater6714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178980&oldid=178978 5* 03Dragoneater67 5* (+19) 10 > 1775307799 188513 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Dragoneater67/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178981&oldid=176044 5* 03Dragoneater67 5* (-7727) 10 this should look like i sent an irc message on some clients! < 1775307881 581494 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok it did NOT work > 1775307914 517061 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178982&oldid=178959 5* 03 5* (+115) 10/* Introductions */ < 1775307997 926691 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1775308672 948756 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1775309024 400924 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[072D-Reversable14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178983&oldid=178846 5* 03Dulph 5* (+80) 10 < 1775309162 567309 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what does "every FWOTD command given as input to another FWOTD command could be replaced by a third FWOTD command" mean? > 1775309191 237784 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[072D-Reversable/Python Implementation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178984&oldid=178818 5* 03Dulph 5* (+128) 10 < 1775309197 16409 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it practically implies commands can be applied like functions to other commands < 1775309227 978702 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and those are always rewritable as another command in the set < 1775309244 157094 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(note that it says this doesnt apply to commands that are created using this process) > 1775309252 666033 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[072D-Reversable 2/Python Implementation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178985&oldid=178825 5* 03Dulph 5* (+128) 10 > 1775309303 702356 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[072D-Reversable 214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178986&oldid=178847 5* 03Dulph 5* (+124) 10 > 1775309332 967807 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[072D-Reversable14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178987&oldid=178983 5* 03Dulph 5* (+44) 10 > 1775309354 555876 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Reversable14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178988&oldid=178815 5* 03Dulph 5* (+124) 10 < 1775309370 110126 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: https://github.com/riscv/riscv-isa-manual/pull/2821 (do you want and credit there?) < 1775309380 544759 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :*any < 1775309856 51944 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes thank you < 1775310007 843614 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: wait, there's a typo in your patch, it now says "greater 1 MiB than" instead of "greater than 1 MiB" < 1775310067 832725 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: so how do I credit you in a github context :P < 1775310078 340745 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :without referring to this place < 1775310171 34157 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://github.com/b-jonas0 < 1775310229 87903 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :progress report: i covered rules 1, 3, 4, 6 < 1775310246 25747 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :damn! < 1775310323 923357 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :great job < 1775310522 376026 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Fixed, thanks. Also mentioned you. < 1775310539 943961 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: However, also decided I can't be arsed to make it more than a draft. < 1775310650 214333 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Also, ridiculously, they want signed commits. But they don't sign their own stuff.) < 1775311006 776510 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :rule 2 is also covered now < 1775311233 302006 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice < 1775311510 859654 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1775311626 181818 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :does rule 5 mean that FWOTD can only execute the input ONLY if it equals its own source code? < 1775311735 567292 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh I guess signing commits is easy enough to do even though I do not see the point. < 1775311772 325968 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :dragoneatter67: no, each self interpret just also does the narcissist check < 1775311819 311387 :amby!~ambylastn@host-81-178-153-130.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1775311881 531661 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Question. Does the following Thue-like string replacement esolang have a name? The program has a starting string state and an infinitely looping sequence of fixed substring search and replaces. The instructions are executed in sequence, they always find the first match in the state string and replace just that one match, and if no match is found you get undefined behavior. This means the length of the < 1775311887 535113 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :state will always grow by a constant in each loop iteration, and you effectively program this by having an instruction that appends trailing junk to the string to ensure that the other instructions always match. > 1775311919 160614 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tetrahedron14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178989&oldid=177700 5* 03Cleverxia 5* (+54) 10yes, children, I'm back < 1775311927 724009 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: there are lots of esolangs that do that sort of thing but I don't think I've ever seen that exact combination < 1775311929 339397 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess that's kind of a boring wasteful subset of 1.1 < 1775311979 715250 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it isn't a refinement of Thupit due to the "every rule must always match at the point where it appears" < 1775311983 707132 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in fact I'm not even sure it's TC < 1775312005 377168 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you already know the search string will be there exactly once, how do you do a conditional? < 1775312044 681026 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: the trailing part of the string state will be junk, so your instructions match there if the conditional should skip < 1775312074 636753 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: oh, first match < 1775312082 882009 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for some reason I thought the requirement was to have exactly one match rather than at least one < 1775312231 84247 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: re https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez2-insane-fini.jpg , how many different shapes is this trying to deliver to the hub at the same time? < 1775312300 452726 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :dragoneater67: no, each self interpret just also does the narcissist check (I resent this since I think I dont think you saw it cuz it didnt tag properly < 1775312301 794856 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: 2 > 1775312314 298543 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Septem Lingua14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178990&oldid=178946 5* 03Cleverxia 5* (+609) 10 < 1775312348 339348 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: the game has 2 randomized shapes, one without crystals and one with crystals. So you get two different MAMs. I have two copies of each. < 1775312407 36489 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also in this particular scenario, shapes have 5 slices instead of 4. < 1775312610 723812 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(so each MAM has 5 stages) < 1775312611 620034 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I thought there were 5 infinite series of randomized shapes, at least in the hardest mode < 1775312639 619035 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I must have misunderstood something > 1775312653 125259 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Yayimhere/INFINITIES14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178991 5* 03Cleverxia 5* (+116) 10Created page with "If i'm not getting it wrong, it gets up to (1,1,1) ~~~" > 1775312750 391322 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Yayimhere/INFINITIES14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178992&oldid=178991 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+248) 10 < 1775312794 742001 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm. No, it has 2 more fixed operator shapes than the other scenarios: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez2-700i.jpg ("insane") vs. https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez2-700.jpg ("regular") and https://shapez2.wiki.gg/wiki/Operator_Level#Requirements for the other two scenarios > 1775313071 601533 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Yayimhere/INFINITIES14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178993&oldid=178992 5* 03Cleverxia 5* (+322) 10 > 1775313123 39507 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Yayimhere/INFINITIES14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178994&oldid=178993 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+176) 10 < 1775313466 286536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: The only use of the number 5 that I can think of is the increased number of slices. < 1775313476 889873 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess it's not really important :) > 1775313667 375756 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Yayimhere/INFINITIES14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178995&oldid=178994 5* 03Cleverxia 5* (+49) 10 > 1775313926 200496 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rizzlang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178996&oldid=165866 5* 03ZachMadeAnAltBecauseHeLostThePassword 5* (-1) 10bro wth was that \ doin  > 1775314050 41730 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Yayimhere/INFINITIES14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178997&oldid=178995 5* 03Dragoneater67 5* (+43) 10sign ur comments cleverxia > 1775314162 195648 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Septem Lingua14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=178998&oldid=178990 5* 03Dragoneater67 5* (-25) 10the esolang no longer exists < 1775314195 683460 :joast!~joast@98.146.165.18 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1775314470 950244 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Oh on the off chance that you're wondering: there's no reason for the train terminals (to the far left and far right) to be flat like that; I could use 3 floors and fit them into 2 rows instead of 5. Which I'd do if I were serious about scaling things up further. < 1775314542 941820 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(There *was* a reason: I used the same layout for an ad-hoc space where I made one-off factories. And it's *much* easier to do routing when you have some extra space. Also easier to remember what shape is delivered where.) > 1775315217 834281 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Here's Some Predefined Stuff. Now Go Invent Everything Else14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=178999 5* 03ZachMadeAnAltBecauseHeLostThePassword 5* (+2055) 10the "i'm getting too lazy" language > 1775315249 845241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Here's Some Predefined Stuff. Now Go Invent Everything Else14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179000&oldid=178999 5* 03ZachMadeAnAltBecauseHeLostThePassword 5* (+4) 10formatting gone wrong > 1775315543 449510 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Here's Some Predefined Stuff. Now Go Invent Everything Else14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179001&oldid=179000 5* 03Cleverxia 5* (+15) 10 < 1775315583 655526 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :dragoneater67, Yayimhere: I think FWoTD can't be defined. In particular, I'm not sure how to restrict the diagonal lemma in a Turing-complete setting so that it only generates one quine. < 1775315667 556589 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo hmmm. i hadn't thought of that. though there is not a restriction of "free output" here, so I dont know < 1775315699 757066 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: Are you familiar with the idea that a program in a TC system can access its own source code? < 1775315720 851380 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: no I had no heard that before < 1775315727 367802 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*not < 1775315733 35267 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :What we actually mean is that, for any program in a TC system, there's an equivalent program which has access to a copy of its source code. It doesn't literally read its own memory. < 1775315752 531561 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea that makes sense < 1775315755 193953 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh < 1775315767 798269 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well FWoTD doesnt remove all Quines, just one NON rotary one < 1775315788 980150 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So if you have the ability to express Python-like lambdas, `lambda x: f(x)`, then there's always going to be the ability to augment that into `lambda x, source: print(source) or f(x)` < 1775315809 429928 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we can just restrict output, right? < 1775315832 645776 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :dragoneater67: But then is it still TC? < 1775315843 495744 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe < 1775315856 346891 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :many languages w/o io are still tc < 1775315864 568398 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like if you can only output a single character < 1775315892 94935 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like, minsky machine, with the command `E` which prints E. and then no other I/O < 1775315900 350271 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or no other O atleast < 1775315901 614966 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, then what are you computing? Systems without I/O can only be TC in the sense that it's not decidable whether they halt; in order to talk about arbitrary effects, we do need to talk about the state of the system, including internal state. < 1775316000 938762 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in the case of `E` here, it could perhaps also replace every instance after it with increment of register 1, ju8st for example < 1775316024 35517 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but again, FWoTD does allow rotary quines < 1775316051 910167 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i dont understand how restricted i/o could hurt turing completeness < 1775316104 626717 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, TC-ness is about being able to emit any computable sequence of symbols. It's inherently about output. < 1775316124 845808 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(It's inherently about not halting, but Turing defined halting in terms of emitting symbols. See [[computable]] for details.) < 1775316222 728900 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm... < 1775316235 498615 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wonder what issues is with my construct above < 1775316266 35282 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if in brainfuck, . and , output into hidden append-only log, and theres an additional command called ? that just prints ?, is it turing-incomplete? < 1775316305 491985 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then you just look in the append only log I assume < 1775316311 409707 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its hidden < 1775316319 9652 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like the hidden accumulator in HQ9+ < 1775316330 535886 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then does it really count as output? < 1775316346 406320 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no it isnt < 1775316360 738082 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it emits symbols! < 1775316367 852977 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :dragoneater67: The inner behavior is still TC when we take that log into account. Your design is almost exactly like Turing's. < 1775316378 10034 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea I was about to say < 1775316392 623036 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so we can have turing completeness with restricted i/o??? < 1775316421 106093 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :dragoneater67: I think that you should pause for a moment. What does TC mean? < 1775316480 855456 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a finite state automaton hooked up to an infinite tape, or anything reducable to a finite state automaton hooked up to an infinite tape < 1775316483 158594 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe I shouldn't be Socratic. A TC system can encode any Turing machine, right? So that means that, for any Turing machine, the TC system has a program which faithfully emulates that machine. < 1775316556 917310 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Don't worry about reducing your system to Turing machines. Either your system is computable, in which case it's reducible, or it's not computable. Computability is more important. < 1775316570 971436 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea < 1775316643 138062 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"faithful" is vague here, isn't it. (The definitions I'm familiar with care about acceptance, rejection, or possibly just about termination vs. non-termination) < 1775316657 510101 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So, for BF that only prints ?, there's still TC questions. The analogue of (Beeping) Busy Beaver is here: for a fixed size of programs, what's the largest program that prints finitely many ? There's also circular Halting: for a fixed program, how many ? does it print? < 1775316752 13582 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I'm using it in the category-theoretic sense of "faithful functor", a categorified embedding. But yeah, we aren't actually putting in the work. Turing showed that acceptance and rejection can encapsulate all other questions of computability, and I guess we've been using that shortcut ever since. < 1775316763 71222 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :("faithful" might imply a much more finely grained correspondance where you have to be able to effectively identify tapes, states, and execution steps) < 1775316826 947127 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think that we can encode the tape into a large unary number, then output it using the ? instruction < 1775316840 208851 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :dragoneater67: I suppose that the insight I'm getting at is: either you're TC, so you can emit any computable sequence including sequences which code for the current program (quines), or you're not TC. < 1775316878 561249 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but then, what about the quineless thing that was talked about on sjmg(I think)'s talk page < 1775316908 418614 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i just realized that this also implies that we can encode the program's source code into a large unary prime and output it < 1775316931 117418 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which would be called a "pseudoquine" < 1775316936 642257 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think < 1775316963 293366 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hofstadter would say that it's still a self-rep. I don't know if he used the word "pseudoquine" but I could check. < 1775316970 241551 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: You realize that saying "in the category-theoretic sense" raises more questions than it answers ;-) (Apart from the extra level of obfuscation (subjective), it really doesn't say wht observables of TMs you care about, which was the point I was trying to make.) > 1775316972 36230 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Final Word Of The Day14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179002&oldid=178979 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+63) 10/* Properties */ < 1775316981 815066 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I would say "encode" rather than "emit" – languages can be TC without having any reasonable form of output < 1775317003 533433 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I changed the definition for it to be a little more precise of the type of quine < 1775317017 384469 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but they have to be able to somehow internally represent any structure, which can be used as an output substitute but might be hard to decode < 1775317039 230065 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: Oh, sorry. In category theory, we can only identify up to isomorphism; if two TMs have isomorphic behavior then they might as well be a single object. I don't really care about which notion of isomorphism we're using though; it can be uncomputable. > 1775317051 597868 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Final Word Of The Day14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179003&oldid=179002 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+27) 10/* Properties */ < 1775317072 635554 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :specifically to standard terminal out, not in program mmemory < 1775317089 472935 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Right, we have to be able to slice open the egg and see what was developing. And the insides cannot be too organized or else they can be interpreted like syntax, defeating Rice's theorem. < 1775317104 983969 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: You're still making the observables implicit! < 1775317121 911739 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, I'll relent. < 1775317145 811064 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this was what I'd call an interesting conversation < 1775317152 405178 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: It's all good. I think that your question's well-motivated. But isn't a TM just a set-theoretic object? Like, isn't it a tuple? < 1775317251 297346 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :...Sorry, I realize that I'm just making you invent the observables that you care about. I think we can care about Turing's observables for now. The issue is then, well, what of I/O? Turing was talking about emitting initial segments of computable binary sequences. < 1775317275 82496 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: What do you think about the diagonal lemma? < 1775317324 791040 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :A TM can be seen through many lenses: 1) A typle of states and symboles and transitions etc. 2) A function from starting configuration to execution traces (streams of configurations) 2) Partial functions from initial configuration (or some import encoding it) to a final configuration (or decoded output) 3) same, but specifically only look at whether the final state is an accepting state or not. < 1775317359 609871 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :This doesn't change just because you're using category theory. < 1775317366 330647 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: i have not heard of it, but I will look it up < 1775317375 717607 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Except that 1) would become very awkard :P < 1775317450 534133 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the idea i always had about TMs is that arbitrary i/o is unneccessary if everything can be encoded in the program's internal state < 1775317451 590495 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yep. We do get another lens, though: 4) a computational universe or Turing category: a category with N where every object can be encoded and decoded into N. It's similar to (2) but arrows are computable rather than partial; instead of getting stuck they can "run" forever. < 1775317512 766356 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/import/input/ < 1775317523 61487 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(in what I wrote) < 1775317658 285726 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: That helps flesh out the picture. < 1775317686 317129 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(My list could never have been exhaustive, of course.) < 1775317710 679674 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: Here's a taste of the power of (4). In a computable universe, for any object C, there's a total isomorphism N → C; this is the coding of C in N. Also the universe is Cartesian closed. So there's a total isomorphism N → [N, N]. < 1775317753 745602 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah I can map that back to what I know about recursive and partial recursive functions. < 1775317754 690989 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but, korvo, do you think my definition of a quine works better now? < 1775317766 398296 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs ::P < 1775317796 335571 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :An object Y has the fixed-point property when for all t : Y → Y there exists y : Y s.t. t(y) = y; that is, all endomorphisms on Y have fixed points. Then, because isomorphisms are surjections, the code N → [N, N] has the fixed-point property. That's Kleene's second recursion theorem, also called Rogers' fixed point, and it is usually way nastier to prove. < 1775317847 565655 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Tangentially... maybe I should configure my client to ask for confirmation whenever I type ":P". I wonder whether it can even do that.) < 1775317884 818914 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: Not really. I think that you haven't quite approached what I mentioned earlier: the diagonal lemma in a TC system makes it so that any program can have a copy of its own source code, so it's hard to imagine a TC system that forbids quines. (If there were no quines then we could add exactly one quine, as you know.) < 1775317932 255485 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: hm < 1775318101 533689 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's okay to not have a solution for this. It's also okay to come up with something extremely clever which I don't accept at first. I do think that this is a good example of why we can't ignore complexity theory when designing languages. < 1775318115 272685 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea true > 1775318141 984297 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Final Word Of The Day14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179004&oldid=179003 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+25) 10 < 1775318150 698070 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(It's also an excellent example of why we should implement languages as we design them. If you had a private Python script implementing a solution then you could at least test the attempts that people make.) < 1775318169 405306 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea < 1775318246 452856 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :at this point I am still a little confused on how, even if it is allowed for the program to be in memory, just not the terminal, it still is impossible > 1775318270 291697 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Final Word Of The Day14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179005&oldid=179004 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-28) 10/* Properties */ > 1775318288 883071 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Final Word Of The Day14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179006&oldid=179005 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+5) 10/* Properties */ < 1775318357 695511 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: I don't want to just quote myself, but I think I put it well on [[self-reproducing object]]. "Specifically, for any legal syntax fragment Q which is open on a single variable, there is a closed fragment Q("Q") which applies that fragment to its own quotation. Applying the diagonal lemma in this fashion is called quining." < 1775318410 7522 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :open on a single variable? < 1775318416 497865 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So you have to attack one of those premises: either it's not legal to have open programs somehow (hard!) or quotation somehow can't quote all programs (harder!) < 1775318440 367284 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Like, the difference between `lambda x: 42` and `(lambda x: 42)(5)`. The former is open and the latter is closed. < 1775318456 15565 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :...No, wait, that's wrong. Sorry. < 1775318466 543454 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thats fine < 1775318469 610302 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The difference between `x` and `lambda x: x`. The former is open and the latter is closed. < 1775318479 111008 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sorry, I'm clearly still asleep. < 1775318491 683748 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :imma leave for a bit, bye! < 1775318504 267422 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :...No, that's wrong too. Fuck. I should eat breakfast. < 1775318540 290184 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh wow you haven't? damn. yea, dont let me be a distraction from eating < 1775318564 585238 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that was correct? < 1775318592 24616 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :x is open (has a free variable). \x. x is closed (has no free variables) < 1775318617 390111 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aaah < 1775318640 510176 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyways, I removed the Turing Complete requirement < 1775318708 459602 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it is hard to ensure while designing anyway) < 1775318780 196463 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had an apple. < 1775318841 346007 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: Yes. What I think you'll eventually find is that TC-ness is a natural barrier which happens to occur in lots of little systems when we apply them to the real world. Design your systems to solve real problems, numerical problems, geometric problems, combinatorial problems, and you'll find TC behavior. < 1775318856 140751 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea > 1775318933 913163 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Final Word Of The Day14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179007&oldid=179006 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+5) 10/* Properties */ > 1775318962 658323 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Final Word Of The Day14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179008&oldid=179007 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+2) 10/* Properties */ > 1775319003 636453 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Final Word Of The Day14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179009&oldid=179008 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (-12) 10/* Properties */ < 1775319066 903489 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: Trust no one, not even me. >:3 < 1775319259 83400 :dragoneater67!~dragoneat@user/dragoneater67 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: you had such a nutricious breakfast < 1775319309 219512 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :dragoneater67: Yes! And the evil witch who brought it to me was so nice. She was cackling the entire time and saying that it would change my life! < 1775319359 972656 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: Eh, I'm no stranger to the compounding effect of confusion. < 1775319397 272533 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Get one thing wrong, doubt everything.) < 1775319404 775201 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: If I'm wrong the first time, I'm probably still wrong the second time. Like, that's a track record of proven performance. < 1775319414 947615 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ie i'e Exactly. < 1775319449 167821 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the gamer term is tilting :) < 1775320489 49270 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 JOIN #esolangs * :11,8aadenboy — it's pronounced [ˈejËŒdÉ›nbÉ < 1775320493 618937 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :morning < 1775320507 690555 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :mornin' aadenboy < 1775320510 63073 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hru? < 1775320518 459130 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm good! < 1775320526 843262 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :showered earlier < 1775320536 304161 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice < 1775320558 300976 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :me myself have set dragon eater upon a task, and have been doing nothing but giving directions(and observing) < 1775320562 632228 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol < 1775320575 217754 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or I guess that is before the little discussion we had above < 1775320607 354420 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol < 1775320618 750320 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in fact < 1775320669 55606 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I saw you Mhm! language, I like it < 1775320675 940807 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :though it still slightly confuses me < 1775320679 552501 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :confuzzles even < 1775320685 572507 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol < 1775320686 873472 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hehe < 1775320703 867188 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I threw it together in one (half) school day < 1775320713 92504 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :coould have a bit of a cleaner definition, but otherwise its good(I assume some of the weirdness is because its an April fools joke) < 1775320714 444596 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice < 1775320755 622284 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was definitely not extremely thought out (because it was originally an april fools joke) > 1775320773 637008 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179010&oldid=178972 5* 03Yayimhere2(school) 5* (+42) 10/* esolangs */ < 1775320778 847474 :joast!~joast@2603:90d8:500:31cf:5e0f:3f4b:1cfe:5060 JOIN #esolangs joast :joast < 1775320806 692633 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you'd be ok with it I'd like to make the article a little clearer. < 1775320817 987363 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :absolutely! < 1775320822 973065 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I know the be bold with editing thing but oh well) < 1775320824 567546 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :great! < 1775320827 415279 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :will do later < 1775321078 381787 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :expanding the comments in the A+B program < 1775321083 847160 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think I can golf it a bit < 1775321087 875640 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice! < 1775321105 12915 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im quite surprised ive caught you for once in a place where our time zones lime up lol < 1775321164 822693 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just haven't been logging on frequently lol < 1775321168 712292 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :too lazyy < 1775321196 955210 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol < 1775321209 689651 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :me neither(but thats because I left the community for a bit and then came back) < 1775321241 572329 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :You're doing fine. There are some folks who take multi-year breaks between editing sessions. < 1775321288 45757 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(i didnt intend it to seem like I was disappointed in myself for it or anything likee that) > 1775321578 839996 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mhm!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=179011&oldid=178891 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+663) 10/* A+B Problem */ < 1775321587 583162 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there we go < 1775321594 495307 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :noice < 1775321641 862412 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Mhm!'s irreversable state reminds me of Countable < 1775321658 117517 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :irreversible* < 1775321770 69391 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you recent languages seem like just a chain from iterate lol < 1775321806 401830 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :they def are hehe < 1775321812 411216 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lul < 1775321836 920156 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its kinda similair to Do Minsky which happened a while ago < 1775321874 523239 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and filled up practically my whole interview with Daniel temkin lol < 1775321908 962891 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :been wanting to ask how that worked < 1775321911 369284 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the interview < 1775321934 110326 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.9.1+deb2+b3 - https://znc.in < 1775321934 231568 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.9.1+deb2+b3 - https://znc.in < 1775321984 440584 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just emailed him, and then he interview over email < 1775321997 136043 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :he gives like he questions in lil' groups < 1775322006 243336 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah < 1775322036 971349 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think you'd be able to get one! < 1775322064 770493 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i was so very surprised when he said yes < 1775322080 962000 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe later..... < 1775322090 601274 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cool < 1775322140 781870 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1775322158 342827 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1775322215 621966 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Yayimhere < 1775322400 545026 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1775322538 617454 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.58 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1775322580 906095 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.200 JOIN #esolangs * :11,8aadenboy — it's pronounced [ˈejËŒdÉ›nbÉ < 1775323024 382296 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :btw aadenboy, do you want to do the same challeneg as dragoneater? < 1775323041 119060 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.200 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm good, I'm working on other stuff atm < 1775323051 104007 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :k cool < 1775323911 88267 :emery!~quassel@217.155.30.169 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1775324191 574850 :emery!~quassel@217.155.30.169 JOIN #esolangs ehmry :Emery < 1775324940 44655 :dragoneater67mob!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz JOIN #esolangs * :dragoneater67mobile < 1775324942 208033 :dragoneater67mob!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi < 1775325237 826065 :dragoneater67mob!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1775325273 144910 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1775325725 630510 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38 < 1775326549 932052 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.36.182 JOIN #esolangs * :sftp < 1775326550 9321 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.36.182 CHGHOST ~sftp :user/sftp < 1775326747 233555 :sftp!~sftp@user/sftp QUIT :Client Quit < 1775327648 556080 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i find it interesting how sometimes IRC will show the quit message but not the join message < 1775327839 622741 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] dragoneater68 < 1775327841 308494 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi im back < 1775327857 765889 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi! hru now? < 1775327859 277021 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :im not on my main dragoneater67 acc bc its taken by my laptop < 1775327865 680881 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :still gud < 1775327868 996107 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :noice < 1775327870 553246 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: depends on the client.. both get sent by server (join & quit I mean) < 1775327885 167365 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :i also can see all the join & quit messages < 1775327888 530182 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :FireFly: huh. < 1775327895 569510 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz QUIT :Client Quit < 1775327909 621878 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] dragoneater68 < 1775327929 770157 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :the joins and quits can get noisy in some channels, so some clients have (more or less smart) filters and settings to filter them out < 1775327944 358563 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh huh. cool < 1775327945 567411 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure what the current webchat does really < 1775327969 916980 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :which client do you use btw? < 1775327982 977677 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :libera < 1775327987 683061 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lul < 1775327989 519576 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :i use catgirl < 1775328004 875735 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i srsly dont know that much 'bout IRC whatsoever < 1775328022 220706 :somefan!~somefan@208.58.192.69 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i used libera, when users join and quit with no say, the join/quit messages cancel out i think < 1775328023 572691 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :its for chatting < 1775328035 705079 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz QUIT :Client Quit < 1775328048 643708 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] dragoneater68 < 1775328049 73621 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I know, but I mean, I know nothing about clients, the inner workings, ect. < 1775328087 34866 :somefan!~somefan@208.58.192.69 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i'm currently reading the irc client protocol (rfc 2812) < 1775328092 5568 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cool < 1775328098 173785 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are many clients < 1775328101 97055 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :like pidgin < 1775328103 967672 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :hexchat < 1775328111 1015 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :catgirl (my fav) < 1775328112 474474 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :irssi < 1775328128 876285 :somefan!~somefan@208.58.192.69 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i'm using it to build my own client, it's exhaustive, but it may help with learning the internals < 1775328136 389724 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :cool < 1775328140 791727 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :I use weechat, works well enough for me < 1775328146 432907 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :very much so < 1775328155 621712 :dragoneater81!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] dragoneater68 < 1775328164 759080 :dragoneater81!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :i hate libera client < 1775328175 571136 :dragoneater81!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :it disconnects on every occasion < 1775328176 455137 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :why? < 1775328179 683234 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah < 1775328186 389727 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its good enough for me < 1775328199 991076 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its just the same as having to reload discord every other second for some reason < 1775328201 276011 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sooo < 1775328345 647457 :dragoneater81!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :i had this idea < 1775328366 331617 :dragoneater81!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :what if we make a turing incomplete esolang < 1775328375 274146 :dragoneater81!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :that is capable of running collatz conjecture < 1775328387 621225 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1775328393 8721 :dragoneater81!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :so that the halting problem is undecidable < 1775328394 343855 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that seems quite simple < 1775328400 4981 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :dragoneater81: that's tricky to do in a generalised way because the Collatz conjecture is very close to being Turing-complete on its own < 1775328401 998284 :dragoneater81!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :but its turing incomolete < 1775328408 910270 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aahh < 1775328410 455086 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait < 1775328418 993552 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idk if we are talking 'bout the same ting < 1775328420 701237 :dragoneater81!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :very close indeed < 1775328455 732294 :dragoneater81!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :i had a design for such a language < 1775328466 825706 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ooooh < 1775328469 622442 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] dragoneater68 < 1775328471 168286 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :but i lost it < 1775328477 745007 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sad < 1775328480 254169 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: the original collatz function halves even numbers and calculates 3n+1 for odd numbers < 1775328481 40442 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, the username is back! < 1775328493 645383 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yea I know < 1775328509 287119 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the conjecture is that if you iterate it, it reaches 1 from any positive integer < 1775328519 763502 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i know < 1775328527 426831 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is it undecidable if it will? < 1775328558 727869 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :lets say that we have an unbounded nonnegative integer accumulator A < 1775328565 788388 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm < 1775328575 512503 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you replace "odd" and "even" by values modulo a number other than 2, and allow arbitrary scale factors (the original Collatz function uses ½ and 3 as the scale factors), it's Turing-complete < 1775328594 121191 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :the program runs in an implicit infinite loop (e.g. when end is reached, it loops back to start) < 1775328595 367076 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the specific choie of numbers ½n+0 and 3n+1 aren't known to be Turing-complete, though < 1775328601 181003 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea I know that as well < 1775328620 575676 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the addition isn't needed for TCness, either, https://esolangs.org/wiki/Tip is TC using just the multiplication < 1775328634 230668 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :das nice < 1775328635 438690 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :% halves A < 1775328647 230561 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :+ increments A < 1775328656 310408 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :3 triples A < 1775328678 584691 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and another interesting special case is when all the scale factors are the same (and only the additive factor changes), this one isn't known to be TC but appears in multiple unsolved problems < 1775328700 952686 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :( jumps to matching ) if A is even < 1775328712 621943 :dragoneater81!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1775328721 622390 :dragoneater31!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] dragoneater68 < 1775328723 196853 :dragoneater31!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :) jumps back to start < 1775328739 920341 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait what? < 1775328742 339334 :dragoneater31!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :! decrements A and halts if 0 < 1775328743 254331 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. the Hydra/Antihydra problem maps even n to 1½n and odd n to 1½n-½, and asks whether you ever end up with an extreme bias in odd versus even results (twice as many of one as the other) < 1775328752 777002 :dragoneater31!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think that was the entire design < 1775328755 871633 :dragoneater31!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz QUIT :Client Quit < 1775328757 634477 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it really seems like it shouldn't but it is extremely hard to prove this < 1775328759 575829 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so ( jumps back to start if even? < 1775328902 358089 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, so in that set of Collatz functions, you allow the program to give as many different scaling factors as your modulus? < 1775328941 440224 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: in traditional generalized Collatz and Tip, you can have a different scale factor for every value of the modulus, yes < 1775328955 561579 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. ½ and 3 in the original Collatz function < 1775328962 621468 :dragoneater68!~dragoneat@95.57.175.228.dynamic.telecom.kz QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1775328970 715532 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok good < 1775329001 528250 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I use "consistent Collatz" as a name for the version where all the scale factors are the same (this is the version that https://esolangs.org/wiki/Feed_the_Chaos implements) < 1775329027 586984 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wbu collatz where its always a value under one for the first value? < 1775329040 185208 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in other words it always divides(by an integer) < 1775329041 854646 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :consistent Collatz can be simulated in quasilinear time despite the size of the numbers growing exponentially < 1775329079 245474 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: I have to be careful talking about this, because I studied it for languages like https://esolangs.org/wiki/Conedy but I think I screwed up / got confused, so my memories about how this works are based on incorrect data < 1775329165 706087 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in general I am surprisingly bad at reasoning about this sort of "inverted Collatz" where you are using values between 0 and 1 and scaling based on the interval, rather than using integers and scaling based on the modulus < 1775329196 605331 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh < 1775329227 188872 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( arithmetic coding vs range coding ) < 1775329244 67615 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: huh, that does seem very related < 1775329285 651919 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is there a "branchless" way to define generalized collatz btw? or atleast is one known < 1775329315 941689 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had heard that some generalizations of Collatz are computationally hard, but without explanation, and this generalization is a nice explanation for thiat < 1775329334 338289 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yayimhere: you need something conditional-like but it can be a branchless conditional < 1775329343 670268 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea I guess that makes sense < 1775329353 817316 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. a Tip interpreter usually isn't branchy at all, it just takes the modulus, indexes into an array, and multiplies < 1775329359 490187 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :something somerginf BCT < 1775329364 907421 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but array indexing is basically a form of branchless conditional < 1775329365 632972 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: oh there is a connection there at a conceptual level; I just don't see that it's useful if your goal is to tackle the Collatz type conjectures < 1775329370 350868 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :specifically I heard this as explanation for why eg. Turing-machines with very few states and symbols can have hard to predict behavior < 1775329380 377653 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: my goal is more to work out Conedy's computational class < 1775329454 824658 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would describe what the language does as follows: you have a working number which is a bounded rational (going out of bounds = halt), you can jump based on whether it is greater than or less than a fixed rational, you can also add, subtract, multiply by or divide by a constant < 1775329473 195649 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I originally assumed this was analogous to generalized Collatz and then realised that it wasn't < 1775329477 694552 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because you can't do a modulo test < 1775329578 190914 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :dragoneater67: I found catgirl to be quite nice too. < 1775329689 342445 :b_jonas!~x@catv-80-98-84-202.catv.fixed.one.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's a nice natural-sounding description < 1775329712 754696 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: ah you made the nets closed. awkward < 1775329735 752506 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but eh, several things are awkward compared to Trajedy) < 1775329826 925994 :aadenboy!~aadenboy@172.56.104.200 PRIVMSG #esolangs :dragoneater67: I'm using an older KVIrc client < 1775330443 610393 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1775330463 223916 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I don't even think closedness versus openness matters here? if hitting a net is closed, missing it is open < 1775330529 598353 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:795f:6a6f:7cb5:ecd6 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1775330583 499536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Hmm, maybe. But this prevents you from making a closed diagonal line of nets, for example, the way you can with mirrors in Trajedy. But yeah maybe you don't have to. < 1775330985 863284 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see that closedness makes defining things easier; to make open nets work, you'd have to do the ray intersection test with the open net, but then still use the closed one for finding the point of collision and determining the new trajectory. < 1775331269 779777 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmmm < 1775331277 770262 :somefan!~somefan@208.58.192.69 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i meant gamja, not libera, the irc server itself. libera also has kiwi as a web client, but i'm not sure how that differs < 1775331297 40705 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think ive made an interesting idea for a lang < 1775331370 227649 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in which every cell holds a reference to a subsection of the whole tape(which ofcourse itself nests, and so on) < 1775331384 312295 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then you'd be able to change which section, making very non local changes < 1775331393 163572 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and you'd be able to nest into the cell ofc < 1775332362 631030 :Yayimhere!~Yayimhere@2a02:aa7:4106:29df:1424:82b2:f396:6f05 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1775332526 131062 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1775332531 187879 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1775332692 20059 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1775332848 168300 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1775333152 676351 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38 > 1775334839 177292 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Nightcat47853456759 5* 10New user account < 1775337638 68295 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs lisbeths :lisbeths < 1775339739 690328 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:340e:2700:795f:6a6f:7cb5:ecd6 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1775341719 112842 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1775341798 310525 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Some time ago someone here wrote some Burroughs E101 code. I should probably figure out where, since I've resumed writing my E101 emulator < 1775344712 350 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38 < 1775344773 342810 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.36.182 JOIN #esolangs * :sftp < 1775344773 421589 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.36.182 CHGHOST ~sftp :user/sftp < 1775345235 284844 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-46-238.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1775345380 892053 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity