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00:19:04 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Help]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196516&oldid=182652 * RandomAnonyomous * (+192) asks a question
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00:59:27 <esolangs> [[Quaternions (Cleverxia)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196517&oldid=196456 * Cleverxia * (-3) /* unary Looping counter */ golfed the constant 42
00:59:59 <esolangs> [[User:Cleverxia/golfing results]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196518&oldid=196356 * Cleverxia * (+9)
01:05:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Help]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196519&oldid=196516 * Aadenboy * (+302)
01:17:35 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Help]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196520&oldid=196519 * Cleverxia * (+282) /* another question */
01:21:02 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Help]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196521&oldid=196520 * PkmnQ * (+368) /* another question */ I think they mean table of contents
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03:08:10 <MarkFan8901> [[Stack based]] and [[Stack-based]] are two different esolangs
03:11:28 <aadenboy> 307 pages use {{Distinguish/Confusion}}
03:11:34 <aadenboy> that's a lot of similar names!
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03:24:45 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196522&oldid=189364 * MarkFan8901 * (-34) remove suspicious 'disambiguation'
04:04:01 <esolangs> [[Talk:Quaternions (Cleverxia)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196523&oldid=196506 * Dragoneater67 * (+341) /* why disambiguate? */ new section
04:10:39 <esolangs> [[Symblicity]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196524&oldid=196512 * Dragoneater67 * (-4) /* Instruction set */
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04:55:44 <esolangs> [[Talk:Quaternions (Cleverxia)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196525&oldid=196523 * Cleverxia * (+148)
04:58:11 <esolangs> [[Quaternions (Cleverxia)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196526&oldid=196517 * Cleverxia * (+240) /* Interpreter */
04:58:26 <esolangs> [[Quaternions (Cleverxia)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196527&oldid=196526 * Cleverxia * (+1) /* Interpreter */ negative sign
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05:01:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196528&oldid=191984 * Cleverxia * (+961)
05:01:57 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196529&oldid=196528 * Cleverxia * (-976) /* Sandbox */
05:02:18 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196530&oldid=196529 * Cleverxia * (+12) revive the header
05:03:49 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Help]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196531&oldid=196521 * Cleverxia * (+17) /* another question */
05:05:59 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196532&oldid=196522 * Cleverxia * (+34) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/196522|196522]] by [[Special:Contributions/MarkFan8901|MarkFan8901]] ([[User talk:MarkFan8901|talk]]): Why suspicious
05:14:54 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196533&oldid=196532 * Cleverxia * (+24) /* Complexity class */ (17^4)^2=17^817^5, I presume?
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06:09:52 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf/Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196534&oldid=196503 * Blashyrkh * (+277) /* Quaternions */ [[Hello, world!]] (170 bytes)
06:11:23 <esolangs> [[User:Blashyrkh/Golf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196535&oldid=196504 * Blashyrkh * (+56) [[Hello, world!]] @ [[Quaternions]] (170 bytes)
06:21:52 <esolangs> [[Talk:Quaternions (Cleverxia)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196536&oldid=196525 * Blashyrkh * (+175) /* what language is the implementation in */ EOF-on-input sets ACC to -1
06:24:18 <esolangs> [[Quaternions (Cleverxia)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196537&oldid=196527 * Blashyrkh * (+64) /* Interpreter */ I changed EOF-on-input behavior to be in sync with the reference impl. Reword a little bit the sentence about FP
06:28:09 <esolangs> [[Vines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196538&oldid=196361 * AeroPurple * (-32) Quickly implemented the "q" bud
06:35:23 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196539&oldid=196533 * MarkFan8901 * (-34) there's multiple deadfish derivatives with very minute name changes (deadfib, for example) and there's no clear reason for deadfih to be the only one disambiguated
06:39:27 <esolangs> [[Talk:Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196540&oldid=149177 * MarkFan8901 * (+616) /* disambiguation */ new section
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06:45:10 <MarkFan8901> [[Fysh]] is like completely unapologetic ai slop
06:50:15 <esolangs> [[Talk:Fysh]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=196541 * MarkFan8901 * (+340) /* this is unapologetic ai slop */ new section
07:01:16 <esolangs> [[Hatter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196542&oldid=69569 * MarkFan8901 * (-19) update links
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07:02:53 <esolangs> [[Hatter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196543&oldid=196542 * MarkFan8901 * (+36)
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07:59:45 <esolangs> [[Ghmi-Asden Tnauin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196544&oldid=194473 * Cleverxia * (+1091) /* Features, restrictions, and twists */ no one still remember this?
08:00:07 <esolangs> [[Ghmi-Asden Tnauin]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196545&oldid=196544 * Cleverxia * (+16) /* Hello, World! */
08:00:47 <esolangs> [[Talk:Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196546&oldid=196540 * Cleverxia * (+127) /* disambiguation */
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08:03:33 <esolangs> [[Quaternions (Cleverxia)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196547&oldid=196537 * Cleverxia * (+171) /* Interpreter */ add a flag so that the programs can be portable
08:11:11 <esolangs> [[Talk:Vines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196548&oldid=194783 * Cleverxia * (+411) /* a small note */ new section
08:13:45 <esolangs> [[Talk:Vines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196549&oldid=196548 * Cleverxia * (+248) /* a small note */
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09:12:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196550&oldid=196546 * MarkFan8901 * (+104) /* disambiguation */
09:16:55 <esolangs> [[Dolfins grace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196551&oldid=196152 * Cordership * (+25) /* commands */
09:17:33 <MarkFan8901> [[Unary Except Every Zero Is Replaced with the Title of This Programming Language or, Alternately, Is Replaced with the Smallest Counter-Example to the Goldbach Conjecture. Compilers and Interpreters Only Have to Implement the Former Option]]
09:17:57 <MarkFan8901> this is what happens when you make an enterprise java dev make an esolang
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09:21:43 <esolangs> [[Oceanfunge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=196552 * Cordership * (+1259) Created page with "Oceanfunge by [[User:Cordership]] is an esolang based on [[dolfins grace]]. ==Syntax== <pre> S make dolfin / mirror 90 degrees \ mirror 90 degrees | mirror 180 degrees (horizontal) _ mirror 180 degrees (vertical) ~ puts user's character into stack & puts user's in
09:24:16 <esolangs> [[Oceanfunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196553&oldid=196552 * Cordership * (+180) /* Syntax */
09:25:52 <esolangs> [[Oceanfunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196554&oldid=196553 * Cordership * (+156) /* Syntax */
09:26:01 <MarkFan8901> we wonder if you could construct two tc languages which provably cant be transpiled to each other
09:26:04 <esolangs> [[User:Cordership]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196555&oldid=196328 * Cordership * (+17) /* Esolangs */
09:26:38 <MarkFan8901> actually no thatd be impossible cuz each tc system is equivalent to each other
09:28:26 <MarkFan8901> thats only true in the sense that you could implement the two languages in each other
09:29:07 <MarkFan8901> actually hold on that makes an interesting question
09:29:39 <MarkFan8901> could you make two tc languages where the implementations of one in the other have to be infinite
09:30:32 <MarkFan8901> we think that would be possible if the way unbounded storage in them worked fundamentally differently
09:32:54 <esolangs> [[Ring-around-the-Rosie]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196556&oldid=178386 * MarkFan8901 * (+0)
09:48:16 <esolangs> [[User:Esolanger404]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196557&oldid=196466 * Esolanger404 * (+377) /* Editor notes(Anything I want to say to you guys go belows) */
09:49:34 <esolangs> [[Geometry coDe]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196558&oldid=196432 * Wertix96 * (+324) Add examples
09:50:19 <esolangs> [[Geometry coDe]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196559&oldid=196558 * Wertix96 * (+16) oh yeah bigger text
10:12:32 <esolangs> [[Talk:Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196560&oldid=196550 * Cleverxia * (+235) /* disambiguation */
10:19:21 <esolangs> [[Bussin X]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196561&oldid=194327 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (-17) /* Russian roulette */ You do know what an interwiki link is, right?
10:21:54 <MarkFan8901> [[Bussin X]] is of dubious esolang credentials
10:24:13 <ChimeraAnova> Also is it because it's technically a trivial substitution of Bussin?
10:24:26 <ChimeraAnova> Or am I misinterpreting "is of dubious esolang credentials"
10:24:41 <MarkFan8901> the actual base language isnt esoteric at all
10:25:27 <ChimeraAnova> (not that big of a standard library but big enough to do cool stuff with)
10:25:41 <MarkFan8901> if [[Simpl]] isnt a good as an esolang then bussin definitely isnt
10:28:03 <ChimeraAnova> I don't think Simpl's even meant to be esoteric, it looks like Ruby x Python. (and if I could, I would probably use it as my scripting language instead of Python)
10:29:32 <MarkFan8901> the x variant just seems to be for the content
10:29:45 <MarkFan8901> if the whole language isnt just for content
10:30:03 <ChimeraAnova> I can synthesize that "esolang" was intended to mean languages that are very eccentric down to their core (even INTERCAL which is built like COBOL to some extent follows this with the PLEASE and strange subroutines and errors) then the weirdlang train started
10:31:51 <MarkFan8901> wait thinking about your definition more made us realize
10:32:29 <MarkFan8901> esolangs are for exploring the esoteric and unusual parts of programming
10:32:45 <ChimeraAnova> (if it seems like I have something against INTERCAL being not a weirdlang I don't, it just looks like COBOL and FORTRAN but is unlike them)
10:32:59 <MarkFan8901> bussin (x) is intended directly to be mainstream in a way
10:33:19 <MarkFan8901> just not the kind of mainstream like, java or javascript is
10:33:51 <ChimeraAnova> I mean, Bussin is based on a tutorial on how to make a programming language, and such a "beginner's first language" language is definitely gonna inherit many qualities of mainstream languages
10:34:14 <ChimeraAnova> Yeah, it's based on tylerlaceby's interpreter in TS tutorial
10:34:37 <MarkFan8901> oh you mean it wasnt made as a tutorial for how to make a language
10:34:39 <ChimeraAnova> Same thing with pythOwO, except (and no offense to the creator) they just copied the tutorial code and UwUfied the keywords
10:35:02 <MarkFan8901> like bussin, the language, isnt meant to teach you how to make a programming language
10:35:23 <ChimeraAnova> It's not Bussin, it's the language Bussin is based on (tylerlaceby's interpreter in TypeScript series language)
10:36:11 <MarkFan8901> yea so bussin was made by that youtuber *following* a tutorial on how to make a programming language
10:36:29 <ChimeraAnova> (Same thing with NoodleScript which I was also planning on adding to this wiki at some point)
10:36:53 <MarkFan8901> quite literally it has nothing going for it other than the brainrot
10:37:05 <MarkFan8901> this guys just openly trying to game the algorithm
10:37:43 <MarkFan8901> probably both of them if its also doing the same thing
10:38:20 <ChimeraAnova> (FYI if you don't know already, NoodleScript is also like tylerlaceby's interpreter in TS series' language, but the keywords are noodle-themed)
10:39:51 <MarkFan8901> this has us kind of interested in what tylerlacebys tutorial looks like honestly
10:40:02 <MarkFan8901> we do need a refresher on how languages are normally supposed to be implemented
10:40:13 <ChimeraAnova> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VB5TY1sIRo&list=PL_2VhOvlMk4UHGqYCLWc6GO8FaPl8fQTh
10:40:59 <MarkFan8901> a gripe we have with the standard way languages are implemented is the lexer+parser
10:41:16 <MarkFan8901> implementing those things are like all the worst parts of programming
10:41:28 <ChimeraAnova> Very annoying and unrewarding compared to the VM?
10:42:06 <MarkFan8901> their design is really boring and set in stone
10:42:16 <MarkFan8901> theres basically 0 room for experimentation with them
10:42:25 <MarkFan8901> but theyre also still really buggy and finicky to implement
10:43:19 <MarkFan8901> lexer+parser dev is just 100% boilerplate and bugtesting
10:43:29 <MarkFan8901> literally no room for the fun part of programming
10:43:57 <MarkFan8901> we just wanted to take a sec to get our frustration out about them
10:44:08 <MarkFan8901> oh this is also (partly) why ralsei exists
10:45:09 <MarkFan8901> we think the reason why its so finicky yet so boring is because youre effectively implementing a pda-complete language with your parser
10:45:34 <MarkFan8901> specifically, one whose code relies on taking in words left to right to construct a tree
10:45:58 <MarkFan8901> thats a programming language in and of itself
10:46:27 <MarkFan8901> and its specific enough for any implementations of them in general to be quite similar
10:46:38 <MarkFan8901> yet still complex enough to be prone to bugs
10:47:51 <MarkFan8901> hell we'd say a lot of the little tricks and sleeves you see in parsing are the kinds of programming techniques you'd see pop up when esolanging
10:49:32 <MarkFan8901> like, the shunting yard algorithm and operator precedence in general are so weird
10:50:14 <MarkFan8901> and seem like they should clearly be impressive footnotes in comparison to some more powerful way to parse grammars
10:51:08 <MarkFan8901> we think if you just smashed a parsers head against an already tc system that would alleviate all those problems
10:52:00 <MarkFan8901> in general recognizing that string recognition isnt some passive operation and is actually a system of computation by itself
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11:02:38 <de67> hi MarkFan8901
11:02:56 <de67> but why did you 'disambiguate'?
11:03:47 <de67> on [[quaternions]]
11:04:45 <MarkFan8901> oh its just cuz having a language directly called 'quaternions' feels like having a language called like, 'if statement'
11:05:08 <de67> i doubt that we will ever have an article on 'quaternions' or 'if statement'
11:05:09 <ChimeraAnova> Imagine having a language named "Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"
11:05:34 <de67> so i dont see a reason for disambiguation
11:05:57 <MarkFan8901> yeah but we think its good form to not have pages on esolangs called that to bare that name directly
11:06:05 <de67> disambiguation is usually done ONLY when there are multiple articles that need the same name
11:06:45 <MarkFan8901> MarkFan8901: so that ppl who *would* look for those concepts dont mistakenly land on an esolang page
11:07:09 <de67> MarkFan8901: who tf looks up 'quaternions' on esolang wiki??
11:07:17 <ChimeraAnova> In my opinion if you're looking for the concept of a quaternion and you found an esolang page, you'd just go to Wikipedia
11:07:19 <de67> its usually done on wikipedia
11:07:33 <de67> theres very little relation to esolanging here
11:08:01 <MarkFan8901> we need a better reason to why we dont like it
11:08:24 <MarkFan8901> quaternions would be an interesting general challenge to implement in esolangs though
11:08:55 <de67> MarkFan8901: but it wasnt implemented in any esolang as of today...
11:09:59 <MarkFan8901> okay what if you had an esolang named a+b problem
11:10:45 <MarkFan8901> we think having a page about types would be reasonable
11:11:08 <de67> MarkFan8901: there is [[Category:Data types and structures]]
11:11:24 <MarkFan8901> de67: we mean like a page *about* types in general
11:11:47 <MarkFan8901> we're trying to get at what we mean generally
11:12:29 <de67> heres a snail: _@/"
11:12:36 <de67> did you know that int-e invented snails?
11:12:43 <de67> including the snail that i just showed you?
11:13:34 <MarkFan8901> we just think there should be clarification that a page is about an esolang and about the concept its named after in general
11:14:00 <fungot> ChimeraAnova: c/ scheme would make life a lot easier
11:14:07 <MarkFan8901> MarkFan8901: even if its improbable that those pages would actually get made
11:14:10 <fungot> ChimeraAnova: last time i checked lisppaste is at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ 116
11:14:22 <de67> idk why, but it makes me think of a snail even if it doesnt look like s snail
11:14:25 <MarkFan8901> like the aformentioned theoretical esolang named if statement
11:15:02 <MarkFan8901> what if you named your programming language Special:Disambiguation
11:15:05 <de67> ChimeraAnova: look at the eyes, they look like snail moustache thing
11:15:21 <fungot> ChimeraAnova: we were talking about protocols, not abominations?". i'm sure there's value in all the time, and by responding to your earlier msg, in an hour
11:15:35 <de67> MarkFan8901: what if you named your esolang Main Page
11:15:50 <de67> what if you named your esolang Special:RecentChanges
11:16:11 <MarkFan8901> what if you named your esolang esolang (Esolang)
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11:16:35 <MarkFan8901> we're getting the audience to rage quit at our horse play
11:17:09 <ChimeraAnova> Discussion so interesting the audience got a brain aneurysm
11:17:13 <de67> what if you named you esolang 9 backspaces, so that if you try adding (esolang), itll become empty
11:17:34 <de67> ChimeraAnova: backspace is an ascii character
11:17:39 <MarkFan8901> name your esolang that one unicode character that hides the text that follows it
11:17:41 <PkmnQ> wouldn't the backspaces delete the characters that come before them instead of after
11:18:06 <de67> PkmnQ: well, well try to prepend (esolang) then
11:18:23 <ChimeraAnova> Wait I don't think angle brcackwts aw3 allow3d
11:18:35 <PkmnQ> there's some way to bring right to left override into this but i can't figure out what it is
11:18:41 <MarkFan8901> ChimeraAnova: you just gave up in the middle of typing that
11:19:09 <MarkFan8901> yknow if we ever make that tc-syntax esolang idea we might just call it esolang
11:19:16 <de67> what if you name an esolang <script>while(true) { alert("5k18idi h4xx02") }</script>
11:19:16 <MarkFan8901> cuz having a page called Esolang (Esolang) is really funny to us
11:19:55 <de67> wait, lemme test smth
11:19:56 <MarkFan8901> actually we might just get to work on that to make it a reality
11:20:39 <esolangs> [[User:Dragoneater67/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196562&oldid=196476 * Dragoneater67 * (+69)
11:20:48 <esolangs> [[Symblicity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196563&oldid=196524 * Ethan314 * (+113)
11:21:10 <de67> MarkFan8901: well, thank you for the idea for my next esolang!
11:21:29 <MarkFan8901> cant wait for your next esolang, User:Dragoneater67/Sandbox
11:21:51 <de67> i just realized that the edit delta is +69
11:22:13 <fungot> de67: ' d you go through elibarzilay's fnord steps for a better solution? i could have sworn there was
11:22:40 <ChimeraAnova> <fungot> de67: ' d you go through elibarzilay's fnord steps for a better solution? i could have sworn there was (esolang)
11:22:40 <fungot> ChimeraAnova: scheme only has hygienic macros
11:23:06 <lambdabot> Variable not in scope: factor :: t0 -> t
11:23:49 <ChimeraAnova> infinite esolang name glitch for when we run out of natural numbers, integers, rationals, irrationals, reals, complexes, quaternions, octonions, k-nions, and sets
11:23:52 <ChimeraAnova> infinite esolang name glitch for when we run out of natural numbers, integers, rationals, irrationals, reals, complexes, quaternions, octonions, k-nions, and sets (esolang)
11:24:36 <de67> ^def ^ ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>------.
11:24:36 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
11:24:46 <ChimeraAnova> MarkFan8901: Ever been to the infinite hotel? (I've never been to a finite hotel, let alone an infinite one)
11:24:52 <de67> ^def ^ bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>------.
11:25:02 <de67> ^def ^ bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>------..
11:25:05 <MarkFan8901> ChimeraAnova: yea and those are just the integers
11:25:20 <fungot> MarkFan8901: good idea :) but it works). its numeric tower support or some such?
11:25:31 <ChimeraAnova> MarkFan8901: Simple, add real numbers and n-ion numbered rooms to the hotel
11:25:44 <de67> MarkFan8901: you love a serial kidnapper
11:26:05 <de67> have you heard of the fungot incident?
11:26:15 <ChimeraAnova> FUNGOT ADMITS IT AHWAI URJUIRHW*)(RY*WKUF*W)FUEJHFJJMWOR{
11:26:22 <ChimeraAnova> FUNGOT ADMITS IT AHWAI URJUIRHW*)(RY*WKUF*W)FUEJHFJJMWOR{ (esolang)
11:26:55 <MarkFan8901> this injoke reminds us a lot of one we had with our old friend group like years ago
11:27:21 <MarkFan8901> it went like "do you know who invented [blank]? John [Blank]"
11:27:45 <de67> do you know who invented esolangs? john esolangs
11:29:40 <ChimeraAnova> fungot does LOLCODE mog Bussin X and do either of them mog brainfuck
11:29:41 <fungot> ChimeraAnova: just takes 3 minutes, sheesh ;p there was a benefit to portability, though i think
11:30:07 <de67> it takes 3 minutes for LOLCODE to mog Bussin X and Brainfuck
11:30:14 <de67> truly a great esolang
11:30:38 <ChimeraAnova> But do TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL and CLCLC-INTERCAL mog them
11:32:03 <de67> btw are these names???
11:32:42 <de67> but like, imagine having to rewrite your program everyday just so that it keeps working
11:32:45 <ChimeraAnova> I genuinely think that "btw are these names???" is a good esolang name, not sure if this is a side effect of eating moldy bread or not
11:33:10 <de67> yes, ive slept only 2 hours yesterday
11:33:16 <de67> i managed to get some better sleep today
11:34:09 <de67> btw, eating moldy bread does not sound like a good idea to me
11:34:38 <ChimeraAnova> Not sure who would even think it's a good idea to eat moldy bread
11:34:58 <MarkFan8901> at most itd be other bacteria you would be harmed by
11:35:22 <HackEso> 676776767676766767: 3 3 3 3 8355268736750207
11:35:23 <MarkFan8901> at the least, youd feel weird from the knowledge that you ate something moldy
11:35:31 <HackEso> 6767767676767667671: 10163 665922235242317
11:35:35 <HackEso> 67677676767676676701: 7 7 7 11 13 8209 168083479061
11:36:08 <MarkFan8901> watching the series on building a programming language in typescript
11:36:37 <MarkFan8901> and we assumed `<Token>` was how you pass types as arguments through functions
11:36:47 <MarkFan8901> and we thought "why not just have them be normal arguments"
11:37:11 <MarkFan8901> then we realized that would make them first class values
11:37:35 <MarkFan8901> Then we wondered what it would be like if you could just play around with them as if they were normal variables
11:37:50 <de67> MarkFan8901: in python, you can store data by deleting and creating variables (without assigning any meaningful values to them)
11:38:13 <ChimeraAnova> 167676767676767676767000000017901413 is prime, hackeso said
11:38:31 <de67> MarkFan8901: say you have a=None
11:38:38 <de67> a is a useless variable (duh)
11:38:49 <de67> but we can check if it exists:
11:39:06 <de67> # here be code that runs if a exists
11:39:13 <de67> catch NameError:
11:39:22 <de67> # here be code that runs if a doesnt exist
11:39:29 <de67> its quite simple!
11:39:56 <MarkFan8901> ok so you just use the existence of a variable as a boolean basically
11:40:02 <ChimeraAnova> if you could make new globals at runtime then this could be tc
11:40:21 <de67> ChimeraAnova: lemme check smth
11:41:18 <MarkFan8901> ChimeraAnova: what if the values the variables got assigned were strings
11:41:32 <MarkFan8901> so you could make names out of the values of other variables
11:42:24 <MarkFan8901> and if a is "new" and b is "var" then you would make a new variable called "newvar"
11:42:30 <ChimeraAnova> String rewriting paradigm but the strings are the variable names
11:42:55 <MarkFan8901> oh this also has the potential for really funny pointer chasing
11:44:51 <MarkFan8901> cuz the nonexistence of something is a core part of the language
11:45:25 <MarkFan8901> what if the lack of a variable was itself a variable
11:45:57 <MarkFan8901> so if a variable `a` didnt exist, `*a` wouldnt exist
11:49:23 <de67> heres a very normal nand gate in python: https://bpa.st/435A
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11:56:37 <esolangs> [[Symblicity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196564&oldid=196563 * Ethan314 * (+7482)
11:57:37 <esolangs> [[Symblicity]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196565&oldid=196564 * Dragoneater67 * (-9) /* Interpreter in C */
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12:07:18 <esolangs> [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196566&oldid=196332 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (-2582)
12:09:04 <esolangs> [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196567&oldid=195265 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+0) /* Overview */ fucking typo
12:10:50 <esolangs> [[Oceanfunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196568&oldid=196554 * Cordership * (+76)
12:12:58 <esolangs> [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196569&oldid=196567 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+540) /* Anti-Plushie Python Q */
12:13:04 <esolangs> [[Do nothing]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196570&oldid=195577 * Cordership * (-6) /* Simpl */
12:13:13 <esolangs> [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196571&oldid=196569 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+3) /* Anti-Plushie Python J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q */
12:14:05 <esolangs> [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196572&oldid=196571 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+1) /* = Plushie-completeness proof */
12:15:25 <esolangs> [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196573&oldid=196572 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+239) /* Anti-Plushie Python P */ neutrality proof for Anti-Plushie Python Q
12:17:15 <esolangs> [[Ghmi-Asden Tnauin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196574&oldid=196545 * PrySigneToFry * (+822)
12:17:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Aplikat * New user account
12:17:29 <esolangs> [[Oceanfunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196575&oldid=196568 * Cordership * (+215)
12:18:00 <esolangs> [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196576&oldid=194685 * Cleverxia * (+234)
12:18:21 <esolangs> [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196577&oldid=196573 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+246)
12:19:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196578&oldid=196576 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+460) /* Version Q is plushie-complete */
12:20:05 <esolangs> [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196579&oldid=196578 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (-31) /* Version Q is plushie-complete */
12:22:05 <esolangs> [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196580&oldid=196579 * Cleverxia * (+165) /* Version Q is plushie-complete */
12:24:32 <esolangs> [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196581&oldid=196580 * Cleverxia * (+286) /* Version Q is plushie-complete */
12:26:42 <esolangs> [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196582&oldid=196581 * Cleverxia * (+293) /* Version Q is plushie-complete */
12:30:50 <esolangs> [[Ghmi-Asden Tnauin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196583&oldid=196574 * Cleverxia * (+50)
12:36:10 <esolangs> [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196584&oldid=196577 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+802) /* Anti-Plushie Python R */ emergency release
12:36:33 <esolangs> [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196585&oldid=196584 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+8) /* Anti-Plushie Python J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R */
12:36:49 <esolangs> [[User:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196586&oldid=196585 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+0) /* Anti-Plushie Python J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, R-rE-A */
12:40:11 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196587&oldid=196484 * Aplikat * (+186) Introduce myself
12:40:39 <esolangs> [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196588&oldid=196582 * Cleverxia * (+280) /* Version Q is plushie-complete */
12:42:05 <esolangs> [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196589&oldid=196588 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+575) /* Version R1 is undefined */
12:42:35 <esolangs> [[WibuScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=196590 * Aplikat * (+7451) Create WibuScript esoteric programming language specification
12:43:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196591&oldid=196589 * Cleverxia * (+138) /* Version R1 is undefined */
12:44:14 <esolangs> [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196592&oldid=196591 * Raiseafloppafan7741 * (+418) /* Version R1 is undefined */
12:47:15 <esolangs> [[WibuScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196593&oldid=196590 * Aplikat * (-14) Create WibuScript esoteric programming language specification
12:48:57 <aadenboy> how many of these potentially AI generated articles used "Create ___ esoteric programming language specification" as the initial edit summary?
12:49:32 <ChimeraAnova> jsut curious waht sdid eoslime feel when lolcode first made its debut
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12:55:18 <esolangs> [[User talk:Raiseafloppafan7741/Draft IV]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196594&oldid=196592 * Cleverxia * (+134) /* Version R1 is undefined */
12:58:02 <de67> so much stuf happen
13:04:40 <esolangs> [[WibuScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196595&oldid=196593 * Dragoneater67 * (+28) /* External Resources */ tag as slop
13:04:47 <esolangs> [[WibuScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196596&oldid=196595 * Dragoneater67 * (+1) /* External Resources */ tag as slop
13:07:03 <esolangs> [[Symblicity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196597&oldid=196565 * Ethan314 * (-86)
13:31:03 <esolangs> [[WibuScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196598&oldid=196596 * Dragoneater67 * (+73) /* External Resources */
13:39:27 <esolangs> [[Symblicity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196599&oldid=196597 * Ethan314 * (-275)
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14:01:29 <esolangs> [[BAR-X]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=196600 * Wertix96 * (+1692) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=|x}} {{WIP}} '''|x''' is an esolang made by [[User:Wertix96]] that only uses letters and the character '|'. Notice that the character '|' may be referenced as "bar-". == Defining instructions == The syntax for defining instructions is: |x or |xy
14:02:20 <esolangs> [[BAR-X]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196601&oldid=196600 * Dragoneater67 * (+4)
14:02:42 <esolangs> [[BAR-X]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196602&oldid=196601 * Dragoneater67 * (+1)
14:06:29 <de67> i tried running /ops and catgirl said: "#esolangs is a lawless wasteland"
14:08:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Cvdthemath * New user account
14:36:08 <de67> i just realize
14:36:15 <de67> i have a personal website!
14:46:22 <de67> ive been blessed by the skibidi gods
14:46:27 <de67> i have an amazing idea!
15:50:34 <esolangs> [[Brainfart]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=196603 * Dragoneater67 * (+1328) Created page with "skibidi stigma --~~~~"
15:51:24 <esolangs> [[User:Dragoneater67]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196604&oldid=196394 * Dragoneater67 * (+35)
15:57:21 <esolangs> [[Brainfart]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196605&oldid=196603 * Dragoneater67 * (+99) /* Overview */ clarify
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16:04:25 <esolangs> [[Brainfart]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196606&oldid=196605 * Dragoneater67 * (+173) /* Overview */
16:05:01 <esolangs> [[Brainfart]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196607&oldid=196606 * Dragoneater67 * (+52) /* Overview */
16:08:16 <esolangs> [[Brainfart]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196608&oldid=196607 * Dragoneater67 * (+11) /* Overview */
16:09:18 <esolangs> [[Brainfart]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196609&oldid=196608 * Dragoneater67 * (+10) /* Overview */
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18:24:18 <esolangs> [[2DFIM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196610&oldid=196515 * Squidmanescape * (+10) /* Specification */
18:36:18 <esolangs> [[2DFIM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196611&oldid=196610 * Squidmanescape * (+243) /* Truth Machine */
18:41:35 <esolangs> [[2DFIM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196612&oldid=196611 * Squidmanescape * (+123) /* Specification */ clarified
18:42:02 <esolangs> [[2DFIM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196613&oldid=196612 * Squidmanescape * (+123) /* Version 2 */ who even knows?
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19:12:54 <b_jonas> so recently I wrote some code that was dealing with intervals of integers, but sometimes I'm using inclusive-exclusive bounds, and other times inclusive-inclusive bounds. and I have all sorts of local or member variables with "min" or "max" in their name, but the "max" sometimes means an inclusive bound and sometimes an exclusive, and that's clearly a bad idea. so I should figure out a good naming
19:13:00 <b_jonas> scheme to distinguish inclusive and exclusive bounds. rust future standard library uses "start", "end" (for exclusive upper bound), and "last" for inclusive upper bound. that could kind of work but I don't really like "end". other words that are available include "lbound", "ubound", "first", "low", "high", but I'm not sure what combo would be the best.
19:13:07 <b_jonas> has anyone encountered this and do you have a preferred naming scheme?
19:14:30 <MarkFan8901> maybe just suffixing `_in` and `_ex` on all of them would work
19:23:36 <b_jonas> nahy, I can't name multiple variable "max_ex". regularly using two letter "x" in a word would make me look like I'm in marketing.
19:24:13 <b_jonas> but something similar might work
19:24:24 <b_jonas> it's not a bad idea but needs changes in the details
19:24:35 <MarkFan8901> we thought "min" and "max" were in function names
19:33:02 <b_jonas> that would be 80s but in a good way
19:43:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:Vines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196614&oldid=196549 * AeroPurple * (+897)
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20:15:09 <esolangs> [[User talk:Blashyrkh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196615&oldid=196199 * Blashyrkh * (+561) /* Quaternions */ quine? I see only one approach, and it would be terribly slow
20:20:16 <esolangs> [[User talk:Blashyrkh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196616&oldid=196615 * Blashyrkh * (+47) /* Quaternions */
20:23:16 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196617&oldid=194972 * Brain Boy 53 * (+0) /* Simple instruction examples */ fixed gammar
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20:47:06 <esolangs> [[Dolfins grace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196618&oldid=196551 * Hotcrystal0 * (+18) Missing category
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21:15:39 <MarkFan8901> currently fighting mediawikis css to get dark mode on the legacy vector theme
21:15:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196619&oldid=196424 * Ais523 * (+603) /* 3L */ unclear whether or not this is TC
21:21:58 <esolangs> [[Talk:Do nothing]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196620&oldid=127723 * Ais523 * (+234) duplicate page
21:25:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Help]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196621&oldid=196531 * Ais523 * (+710) /* Bot */ explain the bot flag
21:26:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[]]": cross-namespace redirect
21:27:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[['WaveletJunction']]": cross-namespace redirect
21:29:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Ais523 * moved [[Quaternions (Cleverxia)]] to [[Quaternions]] over redirect: Revert: this doesn't need disambiguation, especially because a page on the concept would go at [[quaternion]] which is a different title
21:29:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir * Ais523 * Ais523 deleted redirect [[Quaternions]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Quaternions (Cleverxia)]]"
21:38:30 <MarkFan8901> also we found this https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/plugins/gitiles/mediawiki/skins/Vector/+/refs/heads/master/doc/configuration/configuration.md#user-preference-options-glossary
21:40:02 <esolangs> [[User talk:Blashyrkh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196624&oldid=196616 * Blashyrkh * (+287) /* Quaternions */ <s>un</s>fortunately it has no exponentiation operation
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21:49:47 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * UnmatchedBracket * New user account
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21:59:32 <fungot> MarkFan8901: you mean ( a-time 1 30) do not involve custom http servers, apache modules or long-running background processes?
22:01:24 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196625&oldid=196587 * UnmatchedBracket * (+472) you know what? *unmatches your bracket*
22:07:11 <fungot> Guest49: jivera says: actually, i was only asking to test if everything runs from scratch.
22:07:21 <Guest49> from scratch or in Scratch?
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22:16:54 <esolangs> [[2L Turing-completeness proof]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196626&oldid=192831 * UnmatchedBracket * (-4) extra || goofed the > command
22:39:28 <esolangs> [[Symblicity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196627&oldid=196599 * Ethan314 * (-3074)
22:58:02 <esolangs> [[2DFIM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196628&oldid=196613 * Squidmanescape * (+0) /* Implementations */ I realized I don't need to allow null input.
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23:24:19 <esolangs> [[2DFIM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=196629&oldid=196628 * Squidmanescape * (+3139) It was easy.
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