01:20:09 -!- Taaus has set topic: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/8/30/175531/763 <--- Obfuscated J-ish interpreter... Or is it? :).
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06:09:47 <lament> welcome back, evil deltab
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23:40:20 <lament> now you can survive anywhere, with Toki Pona
23:40:21 <lament> http://www.geocities.com/tokipona/text/survive.html
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21:34:57 <mtve> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_programming_language
21:39:52 <mtve> core is claimed to be elegant, albeit i see no source code for the system on their official site but only binaries.
21:40:20 <lament> it certanly seems elegant... errrrrr
21:40:46 <mtve> or at least esoteric :)
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02:32:45 <lament> would it be possible to make a radio without any pre-made components?
02:33:01 <lament> seems like the speaker would cause the most troubles
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09:10:59 <dbc> >>,[----------[>>[>>>>]<<<<[[-]<[->>>>+>+>>>+[->+>>>]+>+[<<<<]<]>+<<<<]>++++
09:10:59 <dbc> ++[>------<-]>--[>[->>>>]+>+[<<<<]>>-],----------]>>>>+>>[<<-<+[>++++++++++<
09:10:59 <dbc> [>-<-]++++++++++>[[<->-]+[<<<<]]<[[-]>+>>>+>[-]]<]>>>[>[>>>>]<<<<[[-]<[+[->>
09:10:59 <dbc> >>]>+<]>[<+>[<<<<]]+<<<<]>>>[->>>>]+>+[<<<<]]>[[>+>>[<<<<+>>>>-]>]<<<<[-]>[-
09:10:59 <dbc> <<<<]]>>>>>>>]<<[+++++>>>>]<<<<[[<++++++++>-]<.[-]<[-]<[-]<]++++++++++.[-],]
09:16:07 <fizzie> I wrote one of the homework assignments of this stupid 'basics of imperative programming' course we had in brainf*ck. decided to return the C version, though.
09:16:33 <dbc> Which was shorter?
09:19:23 <fizzie> the C version, because converting numbers to decimal in brainf*ck is iffy.
09:20:08 <fizzie> if brainf*ck had a 'output as number' instruction, it would've been shorter.
09:21:20 <dbc> If they need to be output in decimal, I've usually found it easiest to store them in decimal to begin with...
09:21:23 <fizzie> actually it depends on which C version we're talking about.
09:21:44 <fizzie> the 'readable' C version is 21 lines.
09:22:21 <fizzie> less readable is 66 characters.
09:22:39 <fizzie> (we had a sort of a competition about the shortness.)
09:24:03 <fizzie> and the brainf*ck code is 75+217 (code + kludgy-ugly decimal conversion and printing routine)
09:26:53 <fizzie> [11:29:04] fizban@colin ~/hut/t-106.231-lop> cat hw2-code.bf
09:26:53 <fizzie> +[>,----------[>++++++[<------>-]<-->>[->++<]>[-<+>]<<<[>>+<<[-]]<+>]<-]>>>
09:26:53 <fizzie> >>>++++++++++>+<<<<[>>>>>+[->>+>+<[<<+>>-]<<[>+>+<<-]++++++++++>[<->-]<[[-]>>+++
09:26:57 <fizzie> +++++++>>-<<<<]>>---------->>+]+[-<<[<<+>>-]<<[>+>+<<-]>----------[<+>[+]]<]<-]>
09:27:00 <fizzie> >>>->>>>[>>>>]<<<<[<<++++++[>++++++++<-]>.<<<]++++++++++.
09:27:05 <fizzie> I don't remember what it does, though.
09:27:35 <fizzie> possibly converts a string like "11010" to a number like 26.
09:31:40 <fizzie> probably my very first brainf*ck thing that could be called a program.
09:32:32 <dbc> Ah. That's clear.
09:41:19 <dbc> Hm. Designed to accept "02506" as meaning "01101"?
09:42:55 <fizzie> I thought it did some input validation, but can't be sure.
09:43:53 <fizzie> apparently not. oh well, we had some arguments whether the 'shortest C version' contest entries can assume perfectly valid input. (mine didn't (assume, that is))
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08:19:35 <dbc> >,[[----------[>>>[>>>>]<<<<[[-]+<[->>>>++>>>>+[>>>>]++[->+<<<<<]]<<<]++++++[>
08:19:35 <dbc> ------<-]>--[>>[->>>>]+>+[<<<<]>-],<]>]>>>++>+>>>>+<<[>+[>+++++++++<[>-<-]++++
08:19:35 <dbc> ++++++>[[<->-]+[<<<<]]<[[-]>+>>>+>[-]]+<]>->>[>[>>>>]<<<<[[-]<[+[->>>>]>+<]>[<
08:19:35 <dbc> +>[<<<<]]+<<<<]>>>[->>>>]+>+[<<<<]]>[[>+>>[<<<<+>>>>-]>]<<<<[-]>[-<<<<]]>>>>>>
08:19:35 <dbc> >]>>[+++++>>>>]<<<<[[<++++++++>-]<.[-]<[-]<[-]<]<,]
08:23:40 <dbc> Have you been following the friends-of-brainfuck list?
08:24:12 <lament> No... i don't even know it exists
08:25:12 <dbc> Ah. Mailing list. https://ischtar.koeln.ccc.de/mailman/listinfo/friends-of-brainfuck
08:25:44 <dbc> There was a contest. I was the only person who entered it. :)
08:25:56 <lament> why have a whole list just about brainfuck?
08:26:23 <dbc> The commented version is at http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/collatz.b
08:26:36 <dbc> Right. The list is 4/5 spam at this point.
08:27:30 <lament> is esolang still around?
08:27:54 <dbc> The old one? Dunno.
08:30:32 <dbc> The esoteric-language community always seems to be bordering on extinction, doesn't it.
08:31:27 <lament> Certainly more so now than two years ago.
08:35:03 <lament> hm, just sent a message to esolang
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22:40:45 <lament> http://mirge.net/~lament/piano1.jpg
22:40:47 <lament> http://mirge.net/~lament/piano2.jpg
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07:29:23 -!- lament has set topic: Esolang is alive! UNLIKE THIS CHANNEL.
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22:34:14 <fizzie> irssi doesn't like it when I paste sfnet (one of the two finnish top-level usenet hierarchies) kookery, apparently.
22:35:53 <fizzie> 1. kook, odd fellow, odd fish, queer bird, queer duck, odd man out -- (someone regarded as eccentric or crazy and standing out from a group)
22:38:48 <fizzie> I would let you people enjoy this too, but sadly you probably wouldn't understand the language.
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21:07:01 * heatsink was thinking about compiling unlambda
21:08:11 <heatsink> I think it's possible, though its creator thinks the d operator makes it impossible
21:11:56 <heatsink> I've got a solution for d, which is to identify all compile-time instances of d and reorder execution appropriately
21:13:09 <heatsink> The only other times 'd' might affect execution order is in an ```sXYZ evaluation, but that's easy enough to check at runtime
21:15:09 <heatsink> There seems to be a lot of brainfuck in the archives
21:39:29 <mtve> compile-time? shouldn't it appear as a result of evaluation?
21:48:32 <heatsink> But when d is applied to an already-evaluated expression, it acts no different from i
21:49:12 <mtve> sorry for get into discussion, i'm far from expert on functional programming :) i even don't understand your compiling concept, compiling to what?
21:49:16 <heatsink> The only time d is applied to an expression that hasn't been evaluated at run-time is when s is being evaluated
21:49:53 <heatsink> mtve: compiling to another programming language, I'm going for scheme because it should be the simplest
21:51:09 <heatsink> The idea is to make functions that have the behavior of the unlambda operators,
21:52:31 <heatsink> Rather than an "interpreter" function that evaluates by reading some unlambda code and performing its behavior
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02:32:38 <heatsink> I have done it! MWA HA HA HA...
02:32:56 <heatsink> I've written a working unlambda to scheme compiler that has no bundled unlambda interpreter
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21:38:40 <andreou> lament this channel is alive. we are just playing dead.
21:50:47 <heatsink> do not give in to the silence! keep the channel alive! :)
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21:53:29 <lament> was that irony or what
21:54:01 <andreou> a bright flash of light right before the submergence into the darkness of the Hole.
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19:34:13 -!- andreou has set topic: Welcoome to the Pit..
19:34:16 -!- andreou has set topic: Welcome to the Pit..
19:36:04 <lament> includings the bots, but still pretty good
19:38:03 <fizzie> "mooz is a scary bot", said a person to me.
19:39:09 <lament> Everybody in here is a scary bot.
19:39:18 <lament> But some are more scary than others.
19:39:47 <fizzie> most seem to be less "bot"-y than is common.
19:40:28 <lament> I'm sure we can all pass the Turing test.
19:40:31 <lament> Isn't that right, clog?
19:40:54 <andreou> lament i have seen real people failing the turing test.
20:16:50 <edwinb> is it because i have seen real people failing the turing test that you came to see me?
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20:28:39 <andreou> elisa^Wedwinb i want to talk about my wife...
20:29:42 <Toreun> wow... there's activity here
20:30:13 <lament> I'm sorry, there isn't any. You are likely hallucinating.
20:30:18 <lament> You should see edwinb about that.
20:31:45 <Toreun> oh, ok, thanks for clearing that up
20:40:43 <andreou> lament, edwinb is the mushroom guy?
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23:43:06 <Toreun> you have a problem with mushrooms? <bad pun>I'm sure he's a fun guy!</bad pun>
23:43:36 <lament> "I used to have a drinking problem. Now I love the stuff!"
23:49:30 <andreou> no, i love the shroom spirits.
23:50:14 <andreou> http://infosecuritymag.techtarget.com/2003/jun/cooltools.shtml
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02:21:26 -!- lament has set topic: Welcome to the Pit. Edwinb is the mushroom guy..
02:45:56 -!- andreou has set topic: Welcome to the Pit. Edwinb is the mushroom guy. Strange attraction to strange attractors: http://www.doxpara.com/pics/index.php?album=phentropy/ ..
02:46:43 <lament> that's... strangely attractive.
02:51:15 <andreou> it must be all that mushroom powder...
02:56:01 <andreou> bre, what's the name for the gcc ada compiler?
02:59:57 <lament> do macro preprocessors qualify as "compiled languages"?
03:00:43 <andreou> ada is not just a macro preprocessor, surely
03:01:22 -!- lament has set topic: Welcome to the Pit. Edwinb is the mushroom guy. Strange attraction to strange attractors: http://www.doxpara.com/pics/index.php?album=phentropy/ . Compilers to the right, hallucinogenics to the left..
03:01:30 <andreou> since compilers transform one form of program to another...
03:07:30 <andreou> hm the stars indicate that today i'll be going to class. damn.
03:08:11 <andreou> strange garbage i find in the bag.
03:08:19 <andreou> if only the stars indicated what classes i have for today...
03:10:44 <andreou> ah cool, i found my notebook.
03:29:12 <andreou> heh never expected to say that again,
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22:00:04 <fizzie> sounds like an illegal drug!
22:00:53 <andreou> nothing is illegal; and it's a hallucinogen
22:01:05 <andreou> ok, no slanted characters. can live with that.
22:02:59 <fizzie> besides, the pictures behind the urls even look like they were done by drug-eating commie hippies.
22:03:39 <andreou> fizzie this sentence was full of stereotypes. please retract it, redesign it and rerelease it.
22:04:00 <fizzie> right, uh. how do I retract stuff in irc again? post a cancel?
22:04:14 <andreou> no, kill the users and delete all their logfiles.
22:04:23 <fizzie> ahh. this might take some time.
22:04:26 <andreou> wait, i think i just had a short amnesia seizure.
22:05:27 <fizzie> oh, that's good, one less to worry about killing. am not an expert in these things.
22:06:10 <andreou> i can help you make it look like a suicide: read the alt.suicide.holiday faq. (it's a really fun read)
22:06:43 <fizzie> I've read the faq, but I don't have the patience to read ash itself, I usually just mark the group read whenever I look at it (and see the 100+ new messages)
22:07:44 <andreou> the ng itself is useless; "pinging kathy; kathy, are you alive or have you committed suicide by dildoing yourself with a high-voltage powercord?"
22:08:19 <fizzie> I used to idle on dalnet's #alt.suicide.bus-stop or what-was-it-again but it wasn't much fun either.
22:09:28 <andreou> no, the suicide and depression channels are usually full of people that think they can be helped through irc.
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03:28:40 <heatsink> got any interesting new programming languages?
03:29:13 <Toreun> I have yet to name mine... but I suppose that's interesting. not all that new.
03:30:51 <Toreun> I talked about it awhile back here... it's a two dimensional programming language with a stack and a queue
03:30:55 <Toreun> and some source editing features
03:31:40 <Toreun> it's an interesting way of self modifying
03:31:56 <andreou> well, have any specs and/or compilers/interpreters available?
03:32:11 <Toreun> the source code has "mice" with a location and a direction... they follow the code the way the normal instruction pointer does, and they can edit specific characters
03:32:16 <Toreun> yeah, let me find it on my server
03:34:02 <Toreun> http://www.toreun.org/esolang.txt
03:35:26 <Toreun> and I think www.toreun.org/eso.zip is the latest version of the interpreter
03:35:27 <heatsink> What's a good sample algorithm to implement in an esolang?
03:35:56 <Toreun> in general, or mine specific?
03:36:24 <andreou> heatsink an interpreter of the language in the language itself is good enough. usually, fib will do :) .
03:36:46 <heatsink> Fibonacci... yeah, that's an okay one
03:36:56 <Toreun> floating point operations?
03:37:36 <Toreun> printing out purdy ascii triangles?
03:37:54 <andreou> my head hurts. i go lie down a bit, now.
03:37:58 <heatsink> Toreun: Can you see the mice work?
03:38:10 <Toreun> in my debugging method?
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04:53:42 <dbc> /\/\ /\/\ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ /\/\ /\/\/\/
04:53:43 <dbc> \/\/ \/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ \/\/ \/\/\/\ /\
04:53:43 <dbc> /\/\ /\/\ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ /\/\ /\/\/ \/
04:53:44 <dbc> \/\/ \/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ \/\/ \/\/\/\/\
04:53:53 <dbc> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
04:53:54 <dbc> \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ /\ /\/\/\/\/\ /\ /\/\/\/\/\ /\ /\
04:53:54 <dbc> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ \/ \/\/\/\/\/ \/ \/\/\/\/\/ \/ \/
04:53:54 <dbc> \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/\/\ /\/\/\/\
04:54:03 <dbc> /\/\ /\/\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/
04:54:03 <dbc> \/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\ /\ /\ /\/\ /\ /\ /\/\ /\
04:54:03 <dbc> /\/\ /\/\/\/\/ \/ \/ \/\/ \/ \/ \/\/ \/
04:54:03 <dbc> \/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/\/\ /\/\/\/\
04:54:11 <dbc> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/
04:54:11 <dbc> \/\/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\
04:54:11 <dbc> /\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/
04:54:19 <dbc> \/\/\/\ /\
04:54:26 <dbc> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
04:54:26 <dbc> \/\/\/\/\/\/\
04:54:26 <dbc> /\/\/\/\/\/
04:54:34 <dbc> /\/\ /\/ /\/\
04:54:34 <dbc> \/\/ \/\ /\ \ /
04:54:34 <dbc> /\/\ / \/ \/\
04:54:34 <dbc> \/\/ \/\/\ /\/
04:54:43 <dbc> \/\/\/\ /\ /\/
04:54:43 <dbc> /\/\/ \/ \/\/\
04:54:43 <dbc> \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
04:57:25 <dbc> Yeah, sorry. I know it makes it hard for other people to be heard.
04:58:02 <andreou> 05:37:39 <Toreun> printing out purdy ascii triangles?
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05:55:59 <dbc> \/ / /\/ /
05:55:59 <dbc> \/\ /\ \/\
05:56:03 <dbc> \/ / \/ /\/
05:56:13 <dbc> \/ / / /\/ / /
05:56:15 <dbc> \/\ /\ /\ \/\ /\
05:56:17 <dbc> \ \/\ \/\ \ \/\
05:56:19 <dbc> /\/ /\ / /\ /\/ /\
05:56:21 <dbc> \/ \/ /\/ \/
05:56:25 <dbc> \/\ \/ \/\ \/\
05:56:27 <dbc> / /\/ / /\ / /\
05:56:29 <dbc> \/ / / \/ / /\/ /
05:56:31 <dbc> \/\ /\ \/\ /\ \/\
05:56:33 <dbc> \ \/\ \ \/\ \
05:56:35 <dbc> /\/ /\ /\/ /\ /\
05:56:37 <dbc> \/ / \/ / \/ /\/
05:56:39 <dbc> \/\ \/\ \/\ \
05:56:41 <dbc> \/ \/ \/ \/\
05:56:43 <dbc> / / / / /\
05:56:45 <dbc> \/ / / / /\/ / / /
05:56:46 -!- dbc has quit (Excess Flood).
05:57:06 -!- dbc has joined.
05:57:15 <dbc> \/ / / \/ / / \/ / /\/ /
05:57:17 <dbc> \/\ /\ \/\ /\ \/\ /\ \/\
05:57:19 <dbc> \ \/\ \ \/\ \ \/\ \
05:57:21 <dbc> /\/ /\ /\/ /\ /\/ /\ /\
05:57:23 <dbc> \/ / \/ / \/ / \/ /\/
05:57:25 <dbc> \/\ \/\ \/\ \/\ \
05:57:27 <dbc> \/ \/ \/ \/ \/\
05:57:29 <dbc> / / / / / /\
05:58:47 <dbc> Well, let's try again, only more slowly.
05:59:26 <dbc> \/ / /\/ /
05:59:26 <dbc> \/\ /\ \/\
05:59:34 <dbc> \/ / \/ /\/
05:59:46 <dbc> \/ / / /\/ / /
05:59:46 <dbc> \/\ /\ /\ \/\ /\
05:59:46 <dbc> \ \/\ \/\ \ \/\
05:59:46 <dbc> /\/ /\ / /\ /\/ /\
05:59:58 <dbc> \/ \/ /\/ \/
05:59:58 <dbc> \/\ \/ \/\ \/\
05:59:58 <dbc> / /\/ / /\ / /\
06:00:11 <dbc> \/ / / \/ / /\/ /
06:00:12 <dbc> \/\ /\ \/\ /\ \/\
06:00:12 <dbc> \ \/\ \ \/\ \
06:00:12 <dbc> /\/ /\ /\/ /\ /\
06:00:27 <dbc> \/ / \/ / \/ /\/
06:00:27 <dbc> \/\ \/\ \/\ \
06:00:27 <dbc> \/ \/ \/ \/\
06:00:27 <dbc> / / / / /\
06:00:45 <dbc> \/ / / / /\/ / / /
06:00:45 <dbc> \/\ /\ /\ /\ \/\ /\ /\
06:00:45 <dbc> \ \/\ \/\ \/\ \ \/\ \/\
06:00:45 <dbc> /\/ /\ / /\ / /\ /\/ /\ / /\
06:01:06 <dbc> \/ \/ /\/ \/ /\/ \/ \/ /\/
06:01:06 <dbc> \ \/\ \ \/\ \ \ \/\ \
06:01:06 <dbc> \/\ \/ \/\ \/ \/\ \/\ \/ \/\
06:01:06 <dbc> / /\/ / /\ / / /\ / /\/ / /\
06:01:20 <dbc> \/ / \/ / /\/ / \/ /
06:01:20 <dbc> \/\ \/\ /\ \/\ \/\
06:01:20 <dbc> \ \ \/\ \ \
06:01:20 <dbc> /\ /\/ /\ /\ /\
06:01:34 <dbc> \/ /\/ \/ / \/ /\/ \/ /\/
06:01:35 <dbc> \/\ \ \/\ \/\ \ \/\ \
06:01:35 <dbc> \/ \/\ \/ \/ \/\ \/ \/\
06:01:35 <dbc> / / /\/ / / /\ / / /\
06:01:50 <dbc> \/ / / / \/ / / /\/ / /
06:01:51 <dbc> \/\ /\ /\ \/\ /\ /\ \/\ /\
06:01:51 <dbc> \ \/\ \/\ \ \/\ \/\ \ \/\
06:01:51 <dbc> /\/ /\ / /\ /\/ /\ / /\ /\/ /\
06:02:04 <dbc> \/ \/ /\/ \/ \/ /\/ \/
06:02:05 <dbc> \ \/\ \ \ \/\ \ \
06:02:05 <dbc> \/\ \/ \/\ \/\ \/ \/\ \/\
06:02:05 <dbc> / /\/ / /\ / /\/ / /\ / /\
06:02:18 <dbc> \/ / / \/ / / \/ / /\/ /
06:02:18 <dbc> \/\ /\ \/\ /\ \/\ /\ \/\
06:02:18 <dbc> \ \/\ \ \/\ \ \/\ \
06:02:18 <dbc> /\/ /\ /\/ /\ /\/ /\ /\
06:02:27 <dbc> \/ / \/ / \/ / \/ /\/
06:02:27 <dbc> \/\ \/\ \/\ \/\ \
06:02:27 <dbc> \/ \/ \/ \/ \/\
06:02:27 <dbc> / / / / / /\
06:03:12 <dbc> I don't know if it has a name. I call it the vicious fish fractal.
06:05:00 <andreou> it's nice when viewed with an antialiased font
06:05:38 <andreou> did a program produce it, or was it, eh, hand-drawn?
06:06:27 <andreou> is it just this one drawing it can produce, or is it just one out of an infinite number of peculiar fish-bone fractals?
06:07:49 <dbc> It can produce rotated or mirrored versions in various sizes, for a total of...hm...56 versions.
06:08:26 <andreou> and what do you have to say to our readers?
06:09:17 <andreou> do me a favour: create a signature (in red) .bmp file and send it over, i want to have it signed by the artist.
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06:21:01 <dbc> :) That's the signature I use for dubious artworks :)
06:21:22 <andretwo> now i have to integrate it in the printout
06:21:50 <andretwo> hm where should i position it... top-left on the blank space, or merge it with the fishbone bottom-right?
06:22:21 <andretwo> life's full of difficult choices.
06:22:23 <dbc> Top-left, or middle-right between the jaws :)
06:25:30 <andretwo> as the french would say, parfait.
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06:53:44 * andreou is experiencing the effects of a mild nicotine overdose
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07:21:56 <andreou> lament check out dbc's fractwork in the logs
07:26:30 <lament> i'm not sure if the prettifier kills it or not
07:28:08 <andreou> it displays quite nicely on ie6
07:28:58 <andreou> hey, that's cool, today we highscored! http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?S=D
07:31:30 <andreou> new entrymsg (changed over to cmeme): Welcome to the esoteric programming channel! Logs of previous discussions are available at http://meme.b9.com/clog/esoteric/?M=D
07:32:16 <lament> oh, i know the first fractal he pasted
07:33:08 <lament> but i have no idea how to generate it in ascii
07:33:19 <lament> that's julia? That's not what I thought
07:33:34 <andreou> it reminds me of julia, let me check ultrafractal...
07:34:34 <andreou> hm indeed, it looks like half a barnsley 2 (julia) though
07:35:05 <lament> the Dragon has a very neat property: four of them at 90-degree angles completely cover an infinite plane without overlaps
07:35:24 <lament> i think i can generate an ascii picture of a section of that :)
07:35:28 <andreou> i think there was a quantum article about it...
07:35:48 <andreou> xm, no, i'm sure there was one.
07:36:13 <lament> doesn't look very fractally :(
07:36:43 <andreou> well it does on non-antialiased displays :)
07:38:57 <andreou> i wish edwin would distribute some of his hallucinogenic joy
07:43:52 <lament> hm, if edwinb is the mushroom guy, who's dbc?
07:44:38 <andreou> obviously, the guy who ate all the mushrooms.
07:47:45 <andreou> 30m and then i'm released to purgatory.
07:49:31 <lament> one isn't normally released _to_ purgatory.
07:50:40 <andreou> well i guess i slept my way through prepositions :)
07:51:43 <andreou> i learnt english through irc
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18:30:38 * edwinb throws mushrooms at andreou
18:30:56 * andreou receives the god-sent gifts with an open moouth
18:31:22 <edwinb> I don't even like mushrooms...
18:33:52 <andreou> you're missing the joys of godhood.
18:38:15 <edwinb> you didn't see where I got them from...
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20:03:20 -!- andreou has set topic: Welcome to the Pit, talk to edwinb to get some free mushroom samples. -- http://www.doxpara.com/pics/index.php?album=phentropy/ -- http://www.electricsheep.org/.
20:04:05 -!- andreou has set topic: Welcome to the Pit, talk to edwinb to get some free mushroom samples. -- http://electricsheep.org/.
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03:33:27 <dbc> 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
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03:33:27 <dbc> 000 0 0 0000 0000 0 0 000
03:33:29 <dbc> 00 00000 000000000 00000 00
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03:33:39 <dbc> 000000000 0 0000000 0 000000000
03:33:39 <dbc> 00 0000 0 0 0 000 000 0 0 0 0000 00
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03:33:39 <dbc> 000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 000
03:33:41 <dbc> 00 00000 0 0 0 0 00000 00
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03:33:50 <dbc> 000 0 00 0 0 0 0 0 0 00 0 000
03:33:50 <dbc> 00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 00
03:33:51 <dbc> 000 0 00 00 0 0 00 00 0 000
03:33:53 <dbc> 00 000 00000 0 00000 000 00
03:34:06 <dbc> 00 00 0 0 0 0 0 0 00 00
03:34:06 <dbc> 00 00000 0 0 0 0 00000 00
03:34:06 <dbc> 000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 000
03:34:06 <dbc> 00 000 000000000 000 00
03:34:06 <dbc> 00 0 00 0 0 00 0 00
03:34:07 <dbc> 000 000 0 0 000 000
03:34:09 <dbc> 00 00 0 0 00 00
03:34:27 <dbc> There's a nice mushroom.
04:03:01 <andreou> the hallucinations just stopped.
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07:32:50 <lament> heatsink: compiled unlambda to c yet? :)
07:33:22 <andreou> hello, world. just got back from a shower and i'm a bit sleepy and smooth. peaceful and tranquil...
07:33:48 <lament> heatsink: via scheme or for real?
07:33:54 <andreou> lament :-) try harder, i'm *really* tranquil.
07:34:01 <andreou> heatsink yeah go down on me.
07:34:03 * lament steals andreou's coffee
07:34:09 <lament> now you shall be tranquil forever!
07:34:24 <andreou> lament i don't drink coffee. yeah, i know, that's weird, but i don't.
07:34:32 <lament> what are you, a freak?
07:34:43 <andreou> no. don't you know? RHDNC.
07:34:55 <andreou> yes, earl grey, lipton and a green chinese brand.
07:35:10 <andreou> but rarely, only when i'm smoking
07:35:17 <lament> Google gives one hit for rhdnc
07:35:17 <heatsink> Of course, scheme can be compiled to assembly, but it's already been done
07:35:26 <heatsink> I haven't had coffee in a long time either
07:35:34 <lament> heatsink: The compiler itself is Scheme too?
07:35:35 <heatsink> Earl Grey, Rooibos, and Jasmine
07:35:47 <lament> Are you going to publish it?
07:35:58 <heatsink> I can put it on the web if you'd like
07:36:15 <andreou> lament "real hackers don't need coffee" heh
07:36:30 <lament> it's the first ever, isn't it
07:36:44 <lament> andreou: yeah, they produce their own caffeine
07:37:17 <lament> heatsink: i think it's rather neat that it can be done at all :)
07:37:34 <lament> Oh, and tea in teabags is the devil. It's even worse than instant coffee.
07:37:40 <heatsink> Have you played with unlambda much?
07:37:52 <lament> It's basically wood shavings, painted brown, with added artificial flavours.
07:38:04 <andreou> lament i am a sinister creation, what can i say...
07:38:09 <lament> heatsink: no, not really
07:38:12 <heatsink> Why would anyone need to paint wood shavings brown?
07:38:40 <heatsink> The funny thing about unlambda is that it's more fun to write an implementation of unlambda than it is to write a program :)
07:38:46 <andreou> hm let's give titles to the lurkers of this channel.
07:38:46 <lament> I don't think I ever wrote a single non-trivial program in unlambda
07:39:27 <andreou> Taaus -- power to the people
07:40:04 <lament> clog -- talent misplaced
07:40:04 <andreou> lament care to self-characterize?
07:40:24 <andreou> cmeme -- sinister meme infection device
07:40:49 <lament> <-- in it for the girls
07:40:53 <andreou> dbc -- cute-fishbone-fractal guy
07:41:05 <lament> no, dbc is just the fractal guy
07:41:06 <andreou> the cute goes to the fishbone fractals, ok? :)
07:41:11 <heatsink> Um... the majority of girls in this profession are computer-generated
07:41:34 <lament> heatsink: that's what makes them so appealing
07:41:55 <heatsink> I suit you fine? aw, how sweet ^_^
07:42:11 <andreou> hm this channel does not have a homepage.
07:42:12 <lament> heatsink: he can't forget you feeling him earlier
07:42:20 <andreou> i'll hack together one when i wake up :-)
07:42:21 <lament> this channel has a whole mailing list
07:42:33 <andreou> lament no, the mailing list has this channel. eh, right?
07:42:56 <lament> A homepage with a wiki would be damn nice.
07:43:07 <lament> It could serve as a repository for esoteric stuff as well
07:43:09 <andreou> wiki? hm, i'll see to it, although i've never administered a wiki before.
07:43:20 * andreou hates web-based communities
07:43:22 <lament> what with catseye dead
07:43:25 <andreou> they should all be sent to dis
07:43:47 <lament> it's been dead for years
07:43:52 <lament> and there's that other place (tm)
07:43:57 <andreou> anyone good with webdesign? i can provide the space and scripts, but i really can't put two and two bits together when it comes to gfx :)
07:44:13 <lament> which uses "stupid" instead of "esoteric"
07:44:17 <andreou> i thought it was just forgotten (by me); i remember it going down for "just a while"...
07:44:19 <lament> and "brainfork" instead of "brainfuck"
07:44:29 <andreou> ... i never saw it came back up...
07:45:12 <lament> the esoteric community isn't just small, it's horribly fractured.
07:45:16 <lament> Mostly into chunks of one person each
07:45:28 <andreou> hm this fractal i have on the background... it's weird... it has angels, a huge demon-like pig trying to eat me, many horns and strange colors...
07:45:37 <heatsink> I saw this great mention of brainfuck in one of the class lecture notes
07:45:41 <lament> Are the angels trying to eat you?
07:45:56 <andreou> heatsink a reference similar to the 'f - not funny' in that intercal paper?
07:46:04 <andreou> lament no, they're going for the pig.
07:46:13 <andreou> xm and some ghosts as well...
07:46:17 <heatsink> It was a parenthetical comment about the language
07:46:46 <lament> In the kids' programming channels (#c, #python), esoteric languages do get mentioned from time to time
07:46:48 <andreou> you guys find the worse times to unlurk...
07:47:16 <heatsink> I think it was something like, the text listed programming languages (C, Scheme, Haskell, Brainfudge[1])
07:47:22 <andreou> in on minute, my misery will be over.
07:47:38 <andreou> [1] Don't use that language, kids!
07:47:41 <lament> andreou: don't do it! the world needs you!
07:47:48 <andreou> [1] Out of reach of children.
07:48:11 <andreou> lament ay) i don't need the world; i need sleep bee) the only person in the world that needs me is heatsink and his fingers.
07:48:16 <andreou> by the way, do we have any women in here?
07:48:36 <lament> cmeme. But she's already married to clog
07:48:51 <andreou> i'm all for polyamorous relationships.
07:49:01 <heatsink> Well, brainfork is not actually known to be turing-complete; besides which brainfooey is not something any sane programmer would want to program in. For more info on brainfufu, look at the website (...). Of course, it's not actually called Brainflock, but we don't want to mention bad words and all that shit.
07:49:02 <andreou> hm, and she's french, right? she'll have that cute fwench acc'ent...
07:49:32 <andreou> heatsink 'not turing complete'?
07:49:39 <andreou> it's a freaking turing *machine* fgs.
07:49:54 <lament> Larry Wall mentioned Brainfuck in one of his lectures on parrot.
07:50:07 <lament> There was a long list of languages on the slide, and the last was "Brainfuck"
07:50:08 <andreou> lament they have a bf interpreter in parrot, check parrotcode.org.
07:50:11 <lament> and he was reading the list alound
07:50:22 <lament> and when he got to the end he said
07:50:24 <andreou> "we're famous, we're famous!"
07:50:35 <andreou> <silent>oh, and brain, eh, fork.</silent>
07:50:45 <lament> "And I can't quite make out that last one... And even if I could, i wouldn't say it. Because there're kids present, and I wouldn't want to fuck with their brains"
07:50:59 <lament> Larry Wall might be evil, but he's great :)
07:51:38 <andreou> :) (:never forget to close a comment, kiddo!:)
07:51:54 <lament> hm, is there a smiley programming language?
07:52:04 <andreou> (that would be my addition to pascal, (: ... :)-style comments)
07:52:20 <lament> Just what Pascal needs. ANOTHER type of comments.
07:52:23 <andreou> lament with just :) or with :-) :-* #8-)# etc?
07:52:31 <lament> andreou: I guess the latter
07:52:36 <heatsink> You make pascal a happier language
07:52:39 <andreou> lament three is the charm or however they say that in american.
07:52:54 <lament> heatsink: pascal is already ecstatic
07:53:00 <andreou> heatsink yeah, and pascal programmers really *need* as many smiley faces in their lives as they can have
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07:54:27 <heatsink> I still need to work on that esolang that's made entirely of nested parentheses, brackets, and braces sometime
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07:55:02 <lament> heatsink: isn't there one already?
07:55:33 <lament> i think it was called []
07:55:46 <heatsink> What, they didn't want search engines linking it?
07:55:55 <lament> and invented to be used at the subjects of esolang postings
07:56:54 <lament> if people can name their language "C" and get away with it, why not "[]"?
07:58:13 <heatsink> I don't think there's an esolang that has a non-ascii name still
07:59:19 <heatsink> Well, I liked my other idea better anyway
07:59:20 <lament> i can think of a few good non-ascii names
07:59:38 <lament> 'lambda' is a good one
07:59:46 <lament> and so is 'wu' (the chinese character)
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08:00:18 <lament> it's more commonly known by its japanese pronunciation, mu
08:01:15 <lament> 'pi' - perhaps for a language with a transcendental data type?
08:01:41 <lament> a C7 chord would be a nice name for a language
08:02:47 <lament> well, a chord based on C and consisting of C, E, G and Bb
08:02:55 <lament> but really, any chord based on C would be fun
08:03:01 <lament> "Screw C#! That's just one note!"
08:03:27 <lament> good name for a threads-only language
08:06:44 <heatsink> I'm looking at the ones almost an octave apart
08:07:14 <lament> what do you mean by that?
08:07:47 <lament> A cute name for a language would be the symbol of the Zodiac sign that happens to be in effect at the time the language is talked about
08:08:15 <heatsink> by harmonic I mean the ratio of the notes is very close to a rational fraction with small integer numerator and denominator
08:08:46 <heatsink> Nah, that language would be a pain because people would always be getting its name wrong
08:09:03 <heatsink> You go through all the trouble of scripting your website to always display the correct name
08:09:17 <heatsink> And then people make static copies of it and leave it around for months
08:09:23 <lament> first of all, with modern tunic the ratio of notes a third apart is nothing at all like a nice rational fraction
08:09:41 <heatsink> Yes, that's why I say close to and not exactly
08:09:45 <lament> And nobody seems to mind very much
08:10:14 <heatsink> For example, a third is very close to 5/4
08:10:15 <lament> Second, while the ratio of C to Bb might not be nice, Bb is a very close overtone of C anyway
08:10:54 <lament> Finally though, nobody really cares if it's close or not
08:11:13 <lament> what matters is how it sounds.
08:11:22 <heatsink> It sounds discordant if they aren't harmonic
08:11:41 <lament> Do minor chords sound discordant?
08:12:04 <lament> What about minor ones? Is a minor third harmonic?
08:12:13 <heatsink> Music's brain effects are rather interesting; the brain tends to interpret chords and sequences of notes as a single sound
08:12:40 <heatsink> It looks like a minor third has a ratio of 5.946/5
08:12:46 <lament> But when you're high on weed, that doesn't happen :)
08:12:57 <lament> or at least doesn't happen as often
08:13:09 <lament> This is why everybody should smoke weed when listening to music.
08:13:29 <heatsink> But then music would no longer aid in studying
08:13:36 <heatsink> And they would ban music at universities
08:14:12 <lament> wow, you're right. A minor third is ideally 6:5
08:15:25 <lament> whether an interval sounds nice depends mostly on the speaker
08:15:33 <lament> on the culture of the speaker
08:15:49 <lament> sorry. The listener. :)
08:16:08 <lament> It's true that intervals based on simple ratios sound "more euphonic" by nature.
08:16:39 <lament> In the middle ages, there were exactly two really euphonic intervals.
08:16:44 <lament> The fifth and the octave.
08:16:52 <lament> Even the major third was considered dissonant.
08:17:18 <lament> To accept the major third as consonant was a major breakthrough
08:17:32 <lament> that happened in the renaissance
08:18:15 <lament> Now, thanks to things like jazz and modern classical, pretty much anything is consonant, when given proper context
08:18:54 <lament> 7th chords were good enough for Bach, although he wouldn't end a piece on one.
08:19:18 <heatsink> Anything can be part of a piece, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it consonance
08:19:50 <heatsink> I would say that there is less emphasis on consonance in contemporary music than in classical european music
08:20:06 <lament> Does all jazz sound dissonant to you?
08:21:08 <lament> Pretty much all of jazz uses 7th chords (at the very least), whether major or minor
08:21:16 <lament> from C to Bb, by the way, is 16:9
08:22:21 <heatsink> I made a mistake -- I was doing C to B
08:22:34 <lament> and that's 15:8, apparently
08:22:50 <lament> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_seventh
08:22:53 <heatsink> Although I would have missed C to Bb because I was using 60 as the denominator
08:24:16 <heatsink> Hmm, the dom 7th is closer to 17:9, but I'm sure the shared harmonics aren't audible in that case
08:24:39 <lament> it shouldn't be closer to 17:9
08:24:55 <lament> it should be 16:9 because that's what wikipedia says...
08:24:55 <heatsink> C and B are 11 half-notes apart, right?
08:25:18 <lament> C and B isn't a dominant seventh. And that's 15:8
08:25:30 <lament> C and Bb is a dominant seventh.
08:26:04 <lament> it would be a dominant to F-major
08:26:15 <lament> and Bb is a note in the F major scale
08:26:27 <lament> unlike the C major scale, where it stands out
08:27:38 <lament> wow, this is really weird: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepard_tone
08:30:16 <heatsink> The picture is a big help to understanding that, I didn't know how it worked before
08:30:42 <heatsink> This is a nice bit of music: "Glass Onion" at http://www-math.cudenver.edu/~jstarret/listenmp3.html
08:33:36 <heatsink> can't find an alternate source
08:34:38 <lament> this shepard tone demonstration is scaring me
08:34:58 <lament> http://www.noah.org/science/audio_paradox/endless.mp3
08:35:19 <lament> listen to it once, then again
08:37:20 <heatsink> It doesn't quite work for me though
08:37:26 <heatsink> May be because these speakers suck
08:37:51 <lament> this might depend on the person
08:37:57 <lament> the other examples did'nt work for me at all
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18:27:35 <andreou> given the nature of the website, the mental stability of its creator and the overhead of php/*sql installation in openbsd, i will write the software in some obscure language/db combo.
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21:27:46 <toreun> yay for internet cafes that also serve fudge
21:28:05 <andreou> what is fudge? fud about gigabit ethernet?
21:28:18 <fizzie> un-yay for the noisy people that have decided to have a party just under my window.
21:28:49 <toreun> not quite, but that sounds even more better
21:29:00 <andreou> checking if building in the top-level or dist directories... yes
21:29:00 <andreou> configure: error: Berkeley DB should not be built in the top-level or dist directories.
21:31:43 <fizzie> iirc gcc wants to be built in a separate directory from the sources too.
21:32:36 <andreou> cd docs && ../dist/configure worked
21:33:21 <andreou> can anyone comment on the performance of c/gdbm apps?
21:34:59 <toreun> oh, btw, andreou, you are interested in making an #esoteric webpage?
21:35:29 <andreou> and lament told me that cat's eye is definately down, so i'll try to make it a bit more generic
21:35:42 <toreun> yeah... been down for quite awhile
21:35:55 <andreou> heh i was "out" for quite a while as well :-)
21:37:39 <andreou> thank eris for oswd.org; now i can steal designs and have a clear consciousness
21:38:46 <toreun> I like making my own desigsn
21:38:59 <toreun> I'm not very good at it, but I like doing it all the same
21:39:29 <andreou> i hate web-designing; i can't hack together something more than a minimalistic spit
21:39:38 <andreou> (like my homepage, for example :-) )
21:40:27 <fizzie> my html is always just the logical structure of the document with <hN> and <p> tags, no fancy things like "layout" or stuff.
21:40:55 <toreun> my site's current under-construction design is, IMO, not that bad - it just isn't compatible with browsers that aren't completely standard
21:41:13 <toreun> well, I split up layout and design, so my html is like that too
21:41:16 <andreou> that's exactly what i'm talking about... and it's not good enough for an esolang site
21:41:32 <fizzie> I get the feeling mplayer _has_ to cheat somehow, there's no way it can do all the things I tell it to.
21:42:02 <fizzie> I'm decompressing a 768x576-sized 25fps mpeg2 file (recorded some pal-rated tv), running a horizontal deblocking, vertical deblocking, deringing, linear-blend-deinterlacing and temporal noise reduction filters on the image, then bicubic-resampling the image to 640x480 and compressing it to a 1000kbps mpeg4, while simultaneously mp3-encoding the pcm audio in the video.
21:42:20 <fizzie> and then it says it can do this for 22 frames in a second.
21:43:33 <fizzie> the analog tv picture quality here is quite horrible though.
21:48:07 <andreou> ok time to put together some code and create a sucky engine.
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