00:10:18 -!- heatsink has quit ("Leaving"). 00:40:06 -!- andreou has joined. 00:40:28 andreou, check your memos 00:42:59 hm, the separator lines are too thick, but the title idea is very good. 00:43:07 please dcc over the tarball 00:43:28 I didn't archive it, since you can download it yourself 00:43:34 but I'll do so now if you want 00:43:46 which separator lines? 00:44:07 the orange-gray lines 00:44:32 they should be the same as in your design 00:44:45 they're about five pixels thick or so. 00:44:58 they appear to me to be 10 00:45:13 you set them as height="1", which doesn't have a unit 00:45:15 they should be 1-pixel high :) 00:45:28 you should've used 1px 00:45:33 I like them thicker, personally 00:45:41 but 10 is probably too much 00:46:23 ok, check now, how's that? 00:46:50 yes, now they are subtler 00:48:04 should we use darker colors? you know, for the site to be more, eh, sinister :) 00:48:42 I like it how it is. Sinister will scare people away. We don't want the site to do that, we want the languages to :-P 00:49:39 heh luring them in with candy and sweet talk and then sodomizing their minds. that's so, eh, esoteric... >8-)# 00:49:46 besides, the way I have it done, the colors are all customizable, except for the title bar and subtitle, which I didn't feel like making classes for individual letters 00:50:18 that's one reason I hate table-based sites so much 00:50:27 to change appearance you have to mess with html 00:50:43 by the way, the wikied code is stacked on my todo que (as #1), since i have to learn latex right now, i'll restart work on it tomorrow or the day after. 00:51:15 would you happen to be able to make it in PHP? 00:51:26 the wiki? 00:51:33 because that way whatever I do will integrate better 00:51:39 yeah 00:52:04 if you don't know PHP, it's no big deal... but I probably should learn perl anyway 00:52:05 probably. there are about 100 lines of C left, so I'll finish that first and then i'll rewrite it in php 00:52:28 why are you using C? 00:52:33 oh, it's not in perl; perl is evil and at the same time sucks like a hoover. 00:52:52 (plus, i would have to break the chroot or create a local tree with perl+libs) 00:52:59 watch where you say that... this is a programming channel 00:53:25 this is an esoteric programming channel, so i can hate and bash every and all languages :) 00:53:33 touche 00:54:43 I know! if you're using that argument, let's make the site in Brainfuck! 00:55:16 (I did see a webserver somewhere that had a brainfuck mod) 00:55:58 apache has a mod_bf and i considered using it. 00:56:08 oh, I didn't know that 00:56:23 however, i value what is left of my mental stability :) 00:57:39 whatever mental stability I had is now gone since I created my own esoteric lang 00:57:55 bah, it's far too overrated anyway 01:00:08 think we should have a user system? 01:00:19 (I'm working on php-ing it now) 01:00:51 not sure about a user system 01:02:26 not a required sign-up system, an optional one, so credit /can/ be given if wanted 01:02:53 oh, *that*. well, that is already in the works. 01:02:57 oh, ok 01:03:29 should I screw over the IE users and make a cool bottom bar like I have on my homepage, http://www.toreun.org? 01:04:01 or would we just cram everything into the contents section of the left? 01:04:48 I'm thinking for organizing wiki link trees and other random stuff? 01:05:00 the bottom bar seems to work ok in ie6... 01:05:06 oh really? 01:05:19 well, i think so :) 01:05:34 it didn't even show up for me 01:05:43 and last time I tried it, it didn't mouseover well 01:05:54 oh here we go, I refreshed 01:06:00 the bottom bar is the thingie with the buttons? 01:06:00 the mouseover doesn't work 01:06:14 no, it's the thing with the links 01:06:19 that on IE appears at the top 01:06:26 but good browsers it should be fixed always at the bottom of the page 01:06:45 hm, yes, at the top. what should the mouseover do? 01:06:57 bring up submenus 01:07:07 try it in another browser 01:07:17 it's horribly useless, but incredibly cool 01:07:19 i don't have/use any other browsers 01:07:47 oh, then my new site design will most likely look quite different on your browser than intended 01:08:06 it should look nearly EXACTLY the same as yours, with only a few pixels off in a few places 01:08:47 better have a site that will be viewable from any browser 01:09:17 oh yeah - we're going for the "poison candy" philosophy *g* 01:09:50 no, not poison, hallucinogenic (we have edwin working on that department) 01:09:57 need... a... smoke... 01:10:23 unfortunately, mushrooms don't necessarily attract people like candy 01:11:34 i was thinking along the lines of soaking the candy with strong amanita muscaria extract. 01:11:48 hm, coding under the influence of entheogens will probably be *something* 01:12:34 yeah, brainfuck 01:12:44 literally 01:12:52 exactly 01:13:13 hmm, do you know the rewrite rule for .htaccess files? 01:14:24 (I've been meaning to learn it, but never got around to it) 01:15:38 rewrite rules? eh since i don't know what it means, i guess i don't know them :) 01:16:09 they're used by apache to determine what information is being requested and what information is being given 01:16:13 based on URLs 01:16:26 and it's exceedingly complex and not exactly sensible 01:16:46 s/exceedingly/unnecessarily 01:17:00 you don't mean plain .htaccess, right? heh 01:17:41 well, some stuff in .htaccess is pretty easy, since it's just basically a .conf 01:19:21 I want to make /pagename refer to /index.php?action=pagename 01:19:55 hm dunno how to do it 01:21:39 oh well 01:23:10 I guess linking to ?something is gonna have to suffice 01:23:32 you mean, like literally ln -s'ing? 01:24:03 no, I mean href'ing 01:24:20 ah 01:28:10 hey, i *found* it! 01:28:12 http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/ffcc/ 01:28:43 impressive 01:35:55 should be, it came highly recommended... 01:51:12 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o andreou. 01:51:16 -!- andreou has set channel mode: +ooo edwinb fizzie kosmikus|away. 01:51:19 -!- andreou has set channel mode: +ooo mooz- mtve Taaus. 01:51:22 -!- andreou has set channel mode: +o Toreun. 01:55:25 i'm out 01:55:27 -!- andreou has quit ("z."). 02:54:46 -!- andreou has joined. 02:55:23 how's http://www.toreun.org/esoteric/index2.php? 02:55:54 (that's my modification) 02:56:44 what does the bf program do? 02:56:55 that mod has a lot of blank space :) 02:57:53 well, I made it a fixed size 02:57:58 It's part of a quine 03:00:19 go to about 03:01:34 ``Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer'' that reminds me of something. 03:01:50 it's the standard spacefilling text 03:01:52 lipsum.com 03:02:03 ah heh 03:02:27 just to show you what happens when there's more to a page than normally fits 03:03:28 there's never more than normally fits, we esotericists can handle anything and everything! 03:03:42 *sinister laughing* 03:03:44 you should get mozilla or firefox, just so you can see how my site is supposed to look :-P 03:04:13 i'll do so if i go to the tei today ;p 03:04:23 esotericists? how bout "esoterians"? 03:04:45 that's more cult-like... i like it :) 03:08:00 tei? 03:08:45 teiath.gr :) 03:09:45 ah 03:17:34 wow, in IE 6 my site looks so... esoteric 03:18:07 it's all wrong. 03:18:17 we should have written it in either befunge or lojban. 03:19:02 lojban as a programming language? now there's an interesting idea 03:19:16 no, it's a human language 03:19:19 as is loglan 03:19:21 I know 03:19:23 'logical language' 03:19:39 I'm a conlang fan(atic?) too 03:19:49 no i got it: we'll write it in greek. 03:19:51 ancient greek. 03:20:22 latin, we already have the about page done! 03:20:33 no - ancient egyptian hieroglyphs! 03:20:39 latin can be easilly deciphered 03:20:44 oh, there's an idea 03:20:55 and since there are no fonts 03:21:08 we'll write them by hand, then scan them and save them in an obscure format 03:21:27 for which the documentation is produced by a program in malbolge 03:21:40 and we will introduce a bug or two in the program. 03:21:58 an obscure format /generated/ by a malbolge program! 03:22:18 won't work 03:22:37 but translated into .png by a bug-ridden malbolge program... that's something. 03:24:02 why png? how bout one of those weird macintosh formats 03:24:38 xpm 03:25:00 isn't that for the gimp, too? 03:25:05 so most people will have to try and read a 1024x768 C structure 03:25:11 iirc there's no support 03:25:55 well, I think any mental stability I had now has completely gone. 03:26:16 any mental what? 03:26:23 something like that 03:26:53 like what? 03:27:01 ok, i'll go make an icecream now. 03:27:32 ooh - instead of sticking *just* to malbolge - we make it a polyglot for every language in our wiki 03:28:52 though I suppose that'd make it too easy to compile 03:29:55 maybe i should skip the icecream and go directly to heavy liquor 03:30:42 have edwin give you some mushrooms 03:31:02 no, i don't want to hallucinate about malbolge, mon! 03:31:04 heh 03:31:47 oh, good point... usage of hallucinogens prevents psychological defense mechanisms 03:32:08 indeed! 03:41:18 does your wiki have a separate discussion board? 03:41:47 hm, no, just one wiki per language 03:42:37 you can't make more wiki pages? 03:42:49 unless you submit a new language? 03:43:10 you can make as many as you want 03:43:29 (I was thinking each page, or each language, at least, have it's own forum-type thing, where users can discuss the language) 03:43:33 i just thought that the wikis would be an easy way to have pages about the languages, i didn't use them as fora 03:44:04 yeah, which is why I was thinking each wiki page would have its own forum, to have discussions 03:44:20 rather than have users discuss directly on the wiki, crowding everything 03:45:04 no, the wiki will be used just for the definitions of languages etc 03:45:17 i really hate web fora, i prefer mailing lists :) 03:46:05 -!- lament has joined. 03:46:34 well, my mail server is blacklisted on the esoteric mailing list, last time I checked 03:46:50 how come? 03:46:53 ah 03:46:58 it's probably an open relay 03:47:11 something about not having whois information 03:47:24 ident? 03:47:28 not my domain, I'm assuming, but some other domain on the same server 03:47:32 not sure 03:47:35 are you the admin of the mail server? 03:47:41 no 03:47:51 whois and ident are different stuff 03:47:59 -!- heatsink has joined. 03:48:04 well, the whole of .gr doesn't have whois (thanks, hostmaster.gr), however i can post 03:48:10 it's probably something else 03:48:22 oh, ok 03:48:23 hm 03:48:47 I'm blacklisted on many servers, because of bad administration on the part of my server, so a lot of mailing lists I can't access 03:49:35 the problem is, with a wiki, people may be inclined to post discussions anyway 03:50:16 well, the exelixis of the wiki will drive discussions out :) 03:50:27 however, if we need another forum, i will put one up 03:50:44 i was, however, thinking of a reference site for the available esolangs 03:50:45 Why not do what wikipedia did, give every page a discussion section? 03:51:09 well it's doable i think 03:51:18 it's not provisioned in the code, but How Hard Could It Be TM 03:51:19 heatsink: that's what I'm thinking, but instead of just making the discussion section just be another wiki, make it be a messageboard 03:51:20 heh 03:51:39 and I could implement it into the code fairly easily 03:51:54 Just get the wikipedia.org wiki 03:52:17 On c2.com/wiki there're no separate discussion pages, but people discuss things anyway 03:52:30 hm i need something that won't need a whole libc+perl tree 03:52:43 suck 03:53:42 I would offer my server as webspace, but I'm afraid it's so unreliable it wouldn't be much good 03:54:05 due to downtime or due to security issues? 03:54:06 it has perl support already 03:54:19 downtime due to security issues, I'm assuming 03:54:25 DoS attacks 03:54:31 ah 03:54:32 anyway 03:54:36 i'm out to get some work done 03:54:45 ok 03:54:51 bye 03:54:56 -!- andreou has quit ("werk."). 03:55:33 lament and heatsink, what do you think of my modifications to andreou's design? (http://www.toreun.org/esoteric) 03:56:40 The "best viewed with mozilla" graphic is misaligned in konqueror 03:57:21 well, it is designed for mozilla 03:57:25 but what do you mean, misaligned? 03:57:55 It's behind the bottom of the main div 03:58:17 what's your screen resolution? 03:58:45 1200 by 900 or something like that 03:58:54 that should be fine 03:58:59 unless your text size is larger 03:59:03 and that might be affecting it 03:59:03 I like the brainfuck background, though 03:59:16 thanks... I figured there should be something there 04:00:27 The "about" text is very unoriginal 04:00:35 it's just to fill space 04:00:38 to show the overflow 04:00:46 * heatsink disapproves of plagiarism 04:00:59 ;p 04:01:15 :-P 04:02:00 Actually, I really liked andreou's formatting of the box background and border 04:02:22 I meant it to be nearly exactly the same 04:02:24 This one only has orange on the top, and a homogeneous background 04:02:43 a homogeneous background? 04:02:45 it shouldn't... 04:02:53 or just orange on top 04:02:54 * heatsink looks at default.css 04:03:09 * Toreun points to little graphic at bottom right of page 04:03:35 There's no border-bottom field for #left in default.css 04:03:41 I know 04:03:53 it's in #container 04:04:10 Oh, I see 04:04:12 and then there's a bottom-border for #main, that overrides it 04:04:47 (originally I didn't keep it a fixed size, so I needed the left bar to extend with the main section) 04:04:52 (or at least look like it did) 04:06:20 I think that #main is filling the entire width of #container 04:06:38 could you take a screenshot? 04:07:35 * heatsink forgot how to do that 04:07:53 in the gimp you can do it 04:08:05 or maybe kde supports the print-screen key 04:08:19 There was a shell program that would do it 04:08:25 I've done it before 04:08:38 hmm 04:10:44 I should just make an alternate CSS 04:11:22 for people who don't use Mozilla or Lynx 04:13:48 okay, I got it 04:16:06 okay, the first 13 rows of pixels are white 04:16:40 then 596 white pixels 04:17:01 the next pixel is 152,114,255 04:17:08 are you writing this down? 04:17:42 heh 04:18:04 13 rows of what, left? 04:18:49 could you send the screenshot? 04:20:04 whither? 04:20:30 toreun@toreun.org works for email 04:20:48 but you could try dcc, though I don't think it works that well with GAIM 04:22:19 I've never dcced before 04:22:42 me neither 04:22:45 dcc send Toreun ~/tmp/screenshot.jpg 04:23:04 try dcc get me 04:23:07 ack, try that again? I was typing and must've hit c 04:23:40 /dcc 04:23:47 /dcc get heatsink 04:24:15 it's not working? 04:25:09 do you see a message if I do this? 04:25:19 oh, I guess not 04:25:26 did you type /dcc get heatsink? 04:25:58 yeah, it doesn't work with gaim 04:26:39 use xchat? 04:27:34 hold on, switching... 04:27:55 -!- Toreun has quit ("gaim irc support is limited..."). 04:28:13 -!- Toreun has joined. 04:29:11 connected failed 04:29:17 hmm 04:29:31 does DCC go over a different port than irc? 04:29:36 it might be the firewall 04:29:51 I'm DMZ host, right now, the firewall shouldn't be a problem, at least on my side 04:30:09 yeah, but I have a firewall that blocks some porta 04:31:02 else: print "unknown comand!!111 AHR AHR U SUX0R" 04:31:13 that's a line from my script 04:31:36 I'll e-mail you then 04:31:42 ok, that works 04:36:09 that shoudl do it 04:36:54 oh, that looks like it does on Internet Explorer 04:38:27 * heatsink is going to bed 04:38:38 actually... now it seems that IE renders it more correctly 04:38:40 ok, g'night 04:38:55 night 04:39:06 -!- heatsink has quit ("Leaving"). 05:04:00 -!- Toreun has quit. 05:04:25 -!- Toreun has joined. 05:41:10 -!- cmeme has quit (Dead socket). 05:41:36 -!- cmeme has joined. 07:42:56 -!- lament has quit ("Leaving"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:27:27 -!- andreou has joined. 12:01:02 -!- andreou has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 16:46:04 -!- cmeme has quit (Operation timed out). 17:52:06 -!- cmeme has joined.