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04:34:49 <freakabcd> hey lament
04:34:58 <freakabcd> hi all..
04:35:06 <Toreun> hi freakabcd
04:36:10 <lament> freakabcd: Welcome to the Evil Channel Of Idle
04:36:27 <freakabcd> oh so people don;t talk here?
04:36:36 <Toreun> lament: Not the Idle Channel of Evil?
04:36:40 <freakabcd> just sit idle?
04:36:44 <lament> Toreun: sorry!
04:36:57 <lament> freakabcd: If you talk, you get banned
04:37:04 <lament> I don't think we have ever discussed intercal here
04:37:11 <lament> But it certainly would be on-topic
04:37:14 <freakabcd> ok, so what happens here in the idle channel of evil other than getting banned?
04:37:16 <Toreun> on occasion we get a few people having conversations, but they quickly learn their lesson
04:37:25 <lament> Toreun: Repeatedly.
04:37:36 <lament> They just keep on learning.
04:38:01 <freakabcd> so people can do mind-reading in this channel! i'm in the right place :)
04:38:29 <lament> Just being in this channel is enough. What else is there to say?
04:38:42 <Toreun> freakabcd: don't confuse programming brainfuck for mind-reading
04:39:49 <freakabcd> woah.. yes. i confuse the verbs brainf*ck and mind-read :)
04:40:19 <Toreun> well, sometimes you have to be a mindreader to understand bf code
04:41:07 <lament> And to program in Brainfuck, you have to be a mindwriter.
04:41:42 <Toreun> indeed
04:42:21 <freakabcd> yes i have learnt a valuable lesson today:: i must become a mindwriter in order to program in bf
04:42:37 <Toreun> whattaya know, you do learn something new every day
04:45:50 <Toreun> so what brings you into #esoteric?
04:46:05 <Toreun> whoops, there I go again, making conversation
04:46:31 <freakabcd> well, lament asked me join #esoteric, i thought i'll check it out. iirc i've been here before (loong time before)
04:47:16 <Toreun> an esoteric programmer? or are you just crazy like the rest of us?
04:47:41 <Toreun> (or both, they usually go hand in hand)
04:48:19 <freakabcd> well, an esoteric progrmmer would be one that writes programs in esoteric programming languages?
04:48:33 <freakabcd> if the answer is yes, maybe i'm the other one
04:49:16 <Toreun> yeah, though even code I write in non-esoteric languages looks esoteric sometimes
04:51:38 <lament> Toreun: I found him in #intercal
04:51:56 <lament> (never knew that channel existed until today)
04:52:42 <freakabcd> ah you guys are discussing where i crept up from?
04:55:43 <Toreun> intercal? I should get around to playing with that a bit
04:55:52 <Toreun> it is the "original" esoteric language, right?
04:56:20 <lament> yeah
04:57:18 <freakabcd> its the original esoteric language? i should start playing with it then
06:08:06 <lament> phew, finally conversation back to normal level
07:19:34 <freakabcd> lol lament
07:27:02 <fizzie> imo intercal was a bit too strange when it came to doing IO. although I faintly recall c-intercal providing an extension that made it a bit less silly.
07:31:03 <freakabcd> well anyway, i'm headed home now after work :)
07:31:14 <freakabcd> i'll catch you guys sometime later
07:31:44 <fizzie> I'm desperately trying to get out of bed to get to work. different timezones maybe.
07:33:07 <freakabcd> ofcourse different timezones fizzie
07:34:55 <fizzie> well, you don't have reverse-dns and I'm a bit too lazy to whois. besides, some people might be getting home from work at 0930.
07:35:24 <freakabcd> lol.. NZST == GMT+1200
07:36:05 <freakabcd> the other side of the world, i guess :)
07:36:09 <freakabcd> anyway, i'm off now
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08:28:22 <dbc> \
08:28:25 <dbc>  \
08:28:26 <dbc>   \
08:28:28 <dbc>    \
08:28:29 <dbc>     \
08:28:31 <dbc>      \
08:28:33 <dbc>       \
08:28:36 <dbc>        \
08:28:44 <dbc>         \
08:28:50 <dbc>          \
08:28:53 <dbc>           \
08:28:56 <dbc>            \
08:28:59 <dbc>             \
08:29:04 <dbc>              \
08:29:08 <dbc>               \
08:29:13 <dbc>                \
08:30:03 <fizzie> that was all?
08:30:17 <dbc> Yes. Do you have suggestions for a continuation?
08:31:16 <fizzie> well, I'm not good at these iq-test-like "what comes next in a sequence" things, but if I had to guess, I'd probably say "                 \"
08:31:58 <dbc> That would be a straightforward next move, but I got bored.
08:36:16 <fizzie> maybe you should do something radically different, like a 180 degree turn. or did you do that already? hard to say.
08:36:31 <dbc> *8)#
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16:23:41 <calamari_> hi
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17:33:22 <lament> hi
17:34:01 <calamari_> hi lament, having fun?
17:36:38 <lament> oh yes
17:36:44 <lament> just got to work
17:36:47 <lament> am drinking coffee
17:36:59 <lament> what can be more fun than that? %)
17:38:14 <calamari_> working on a bf program?
17:38:36 <lament> Worse
17:38:39 <lament> on a Ruby program
17:39:20 <calamari_> use java.. would go better with your coffee ;)
17:40:39 <lament> well, Ruby is a whole lot better than Java
17:42:52 <calamari_> what I'd really like to see is a language like Java (forced error handling, sane strings, nice oo, standard i/o libraries) that compiles native rather than being interpreted
17:44:00 <lament> calamari_: then you're insane.
17:44:07 <calamari_> I'd give up true OO if it could be faked somehow
17:44:09 <lament> calamari_: Firstly, Java sucks
17:44:20 <lament> calamari_: Secondly, Java's OO sucks
17:44:26 <lament> calamari_: thirdly, Java can be natively compiled
17:44:49 <calamari_> I'm pretty sure gcj isn't exactly native
17:46:30 <lament> calamari_: What practical differences does that have?
17:46:40 <calamari_> the thing that I like about Java is how easy it is to get things done.  If I need a linked list it's easy, and I can put anything I want in it.  If I need to do some work with strings, I don't have memory management headaches
17:50:31 <calamari_> c++ has oo and is compiled, so it should be possible
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19:46:13 <fizzie> on a related note, it saddens me to report that the introductionary programming courses for cs students at my so-called university here will from now on no longer use scheme but java.
19:47:59 <calamari-> introductory programming in java?  that's pretty messed up
19:48:08 <lament> Yes
19:48:11 <lament> I went through that
19:48:21 <calamari-> intro programming should be basic, asm and c
19:48:28 <lament> They ignore algorithms and data structures and starts straight with OO.
19:50:04 <calamari-> basic is good to find out if you can actually program, asm lets you understand the details, c is a standard
19:50:14 <fizzie> we used to have three separate courses, T1 that was scheme (functional-programming-like, used sicp as course literature), T2 plain C (as your basic imperative language) and then T3 about OO (in c++/java, don't know, seems I'll never get to do it)
19:50:15 <calamari-> java is something fun you learn later
19:51:11 <fizzie> and then a separate 'data structures and algorithms' course (same time as T2) that was pretty language-agnostic.
19:53:27 <lament> java isn't fun
19:54:08 <fizzie> well, writing a j2me irc client for my phone was pretty fun.
19:55:10 <fizzie> although I wouldn't have written it in java if I had a choice.
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