< 1085617321 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, a creationist troll in #C < 1085617351 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does #c have to do with religion? < 1085617435 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it has a bible < 1085617480 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, you're right < 1085617502 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have it? you could start quoting "verses" < 1085617510 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1085617511 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :( < 1085618214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have been reading comp.lang.c tonight, seems that they often ask "can we have chapter and verse for that?" when people state facts and non-facts. < 1085618418 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best I could find from amazon.com :) < 1085619540 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1085620783 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lameAFK < 1085623092 0 :calamari-!JeffryJohn@as10-pho-az-205-186-113-109.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1085624011 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1085628575 0 :dbc!ttm@130.94.161.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1085631707 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1085633689 0 :lameAFK!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1085637400 0 :Keymaker!nobody@212-246-180-5.dial.tpo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1085637463 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello everyone; haven't been here ever before, and excuse me my bad English. < 1085637899 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ok, english is a hard language :P < 1085637910 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1085637914 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1085637914 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I expect our Finnish is worse than your English < 1085637922 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish < 1085637923 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1085637927 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm from Finland :) < 1085637935 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I said Finnish < 1085637947 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1085638036 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, too bad I have to go now. I'll come back sometime later, goodbye everyone. < 1085638039 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1085638055 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody left. < 1085638084 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1085644799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1085644800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1085646453 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1085654949 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"you have no chance to survive make your time." < 1085659652 0 :Keymaker!nobody@212-246-180-50.dial.tpo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1085661624 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you 1.) discussing privately or 2.) just idling? :) < 1085661986 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1085662043 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1085662049 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see. < 1085662412 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can also discuss something publicly :) < 1085662503 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, yes < 1085662550 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what language you're interested most about? < 1085662727 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me? mmm, befunge of esoterics, perl. < 1085662799 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1085662829 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just read something about befunge, gotta say i didn't understand anything :O but it seemed interesting < 1085663301 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But well, I think I'll go to do some coding or play Commander Keen, cya. < 1085663302 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1085666201 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1085669646 0 :Keymaker!nobody@212-246-180-77.dial.tpo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1085669747 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized (=read) Befunge code is in 2d table. No wonder the code looked so cryptic before. :) < 1085670137 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fairly simple in fact. < 1085670183 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1085670191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple, yes, but the lack of functions makes it messy. you "can" simulate functions by directing code flow manually, but it's.. not fun. < 1085670202 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is! < 1085670208 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1085670215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok, fun perhaps. < 1085670230 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, where does the code start? < 1085670239 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from some corner or is there some symbol for it? < 1085670248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0, 0), going left-to-right, does it not. < 1085670257 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1085670281 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mooz has that funky qsort example which I think shows that most non-trivial algorithms in befunge are.. messy. < 1085670308 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might take a look at it later :) < 1085670332 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at http://quux.befunge.org/qsort.html if you want. < 1085670337 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1085670337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax-highlighted, even. < 1085670371 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1085670388 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, probably wasn't pretty easy to code that one.. < 1085670709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, since when have I had this '@' character in front of my name and why? it's scary. if I make an U-turn I might hit it and it'd terminate this program. (assuming life works like befunge. would think it does.) < 1085670739 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1085670739 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1085671084 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before I realized not so many mins ago that Befunge consist of single characters like BF and the code is in table, I was pretty confused when I was trying to figure 'is there any logic in this language?'. I was trying to think what syntax and instructions it used and didn't realize the different instructions were in front of my eyes as single characters. :\ (sorry, I just had to say this now because I forgot to say this totally ^ up there) < 1085671164 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably it'll be better to search some info before looking at the code, for now on. :) < 1085671186 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check out first url from the topic < 1085671197 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1085671198 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1085671288 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably mean the cat's eye page about Befunge? < 1085671394 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. Chris is the author of befunge. < 1085671426 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allright :) < 1085671436 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.mine.nu:8080/projects/befunge93/doc/befunge93.html < 1085671481 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is he in this room at the moment? < 1085671500 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, i havn't seen him here. < 1085671518 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1085671535 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, looks like he's not interested in esoteric languages anymore but only in esoteric oses. < 1085671549 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's 'oses'? < 1085671554 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operating systems < 1085671557 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1085671564 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean DragonFlyBSD < 1085671604 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok - though, i don't know (yet) what it is < 1085671604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds more like an esoteric drug than an operating system to me. < 1085671615 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1085671627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if not that, then something from the BBS era. < 1085671696 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll stay with brainf#ck, but this befunge is just something i don't wanna miss :) < 1085671713 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any good interpreters/compilers? < 1085671737 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad i have to confess, i'm still using win :( < 1085671762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my befunge interpreters are on the opposite end of the spectrum from good. < 1085671775 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1085671833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's glfunge98 which had Real Bugs (tm) and died before it even started (although someone apparently had time to make a HPUX-package of it), then there's "ff" which has few minor bugs too, although I've forgotten what they were, and then there's ff2 which I haven't even ever managed to compile. < 1085671851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have, however, managed to make gcc eat ~1GB of memory while trying to compile the beast. < 1085671863 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1085671904 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff's in http://befunge.org/ff/, the rest I'm a bit too ashamed to mention. < 1085671938 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1085671955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually if I have to run befunge(93) code, I'll just use mooz's interpreter. am not sure if it's in the interweb somewhere, though. < 1085671966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's approximately as fast as ff, but lacks the bugs. < 1085671993 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's big plus (lack of bugs) < 1085672010 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've forgotten what the bugs in ff were. < 1085672020 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1085672034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's not pretty c. < 1085672087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff2 tried to take the ff approach a bit further, and also to compile without gcc. < 1085672107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end result was a mess of code that doesn't compile even with gcc. < 1085672113 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1085672147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it seems to be relatively valid C. I tried to compile it with intel's c compiler, and it didn't issue any warnings or errors. it did, however, crash. < 1085672160 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad < 1085672205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried to compile with gcc-3.x, though. might satisfy my curiosity now. < 1085672218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least befunge beats actually working here at work. < 1085672225 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1085672249 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you're doing? code? < 1085672341 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently j2me stuff for stupid multimedia mobile phones. I hates it. this was supposed to be done using the native c++ api symbianOS phones have, but in the middle of the "project", if it can be called that, 'they' decided "hey, we'll do the whole thing on j2me (although it will be ran only on symbian phones)" < 1085672368 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1085672370 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1085672410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who (besides lunatics and madmen) writes dsp-like code in _java_ to run on a _phone_? I don't want to know how slooooow this thing will run, if my guesses on the performance of the java VM are correct. < 1085672444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, gcc-3.1 compiled my ff2, in only 1:30 minutes. < 1085672448 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1085672452 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work? < 1085672498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1085672501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not. < 1085672505 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1085672529 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to fix it? go see http://gehennom.org/~fizban/tmp/ff2.c < 1085672539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely don't want to fix it. < 1085672556 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, but i'm not really good coder :) < 1085672621 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, just wondering, how many here are actually from finland? < 1085672625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither am I. the macros used in ff2 look really really sick, though. < 1085672634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just me and mooz, and you, I think. < 1085672640 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1085672707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, three out of ~10 isn't too bad, I guess. < 1085672713 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1085672717 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all < 1085672802 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, by the way, why c? why not c++? < 1085672820 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's somehow simpler < 1085672829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++ isn't my favourite programming language. < 1085672838 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i see < 1085672839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess I could have made a big enough mess with c++ templates. < 1085672864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll write ff++ next. < 1085672896 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1085672923 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i have time enough ever i think i'll write somekind of brainf#ck interpreter < 1085672948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, when writing C++ I have this strangest urge to write well-structured, oo-like code. < 1085672971 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oo-like? < 1085672977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :object-oriented-like. < 1085672979 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1085672988 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I could've made myself write all those computed gotos in ff if it were c++. < 1085672991 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realized at the same moment i asked :) < 1085673031 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is probably one of those urls that keep circling around irc, but it was very convincing: http://www.j-walk.com/other/wifispray/ < 1085673051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a rumble of thunder I hear? (or am I just hungry?) < 1085673082 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1085673099 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, too bad probably not true :( < 1085673180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, the wifi speed spray thing? how could it not be, there are _equations_ there. < 1085673192 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1085673219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, ted smith, todd smith, tina smith, toraido smith, theresa smith and tim smith all recommend it. < 1085673246 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the agent family :) < 1085673429 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd take me a lot time to read those funge specifications, but what is the biggest difference between befunge 93 and 98, or are they even same language? < 1085673458 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 'funge 98', and yes, they are the same language. < 1085673465 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge98 just has a lot of extensions. < 1085673469 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1085673489 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'll use the 93 one when i use this < 1085673492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamically loading extensions (that map on the uppercase characters), multi-threading, n-dimensionality, even time travel. < 1085673530 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'm not sure if any implementations offer n-funge. trefunge interpreters there probably are. < 1085673553 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'trefunge'? < 1085673578 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in/out in addition to left/right/up/down. < 1085673589 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1085673598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most probably don't implement the time travel extension either. < 1085673605 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1085673611 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that all goes too confusing :) < 1085673632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and between '93 and '98 there was that funky funge with multithreading but a shared stack between all threads. (can't remember if it was '96 or '97) < 1085673644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a maybe not so good idea, that. < 1085673650 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1085673684 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder is there any language that anyone hadn't had skills to write an interpreter or a compiler? < 1085673729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the IP delta (direction) doesn't need to be (1, 0), (0, 1), (-1, 0) or (0, -1) any longer, but it can be any vector with integer components. < 1085673748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a pretty lame thing to do, since it lets you jump around. too easy. < 1085673756 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1085673778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the ';' "skip code until next ;" command, which I consider cheating too. < 1085673791 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1085673813 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was that '#' that jumps over one? < 1085673819 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cell < 1085673823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if funge98 included the hex-number-extension though. ('a', 'b', .. 'f' which would push 10, 11, .. 15.) < 1085673832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but that's too useful to remove. < 1085673846 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1085673865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mooz's mostly-befunge-93 interpreter for the ti-86 calculator family (bef86?) included [a-f]. < 1085673884 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1085673925 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those 1-9 (and a-f) kinda like variables in befunge? < 1085673939 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one can save some number into those? < 1085673957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nno. < 1085673961 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1085673964 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just push the corresponding number to stack. < 1085673980 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1085673990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no variables, just the stack. oh, and you can write/read to/from the playfield. < 1085674003 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1085674008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, funge98 also includes the "stack stack" < 1085674018 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1085674025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where instead of a single stack you actually have a stack of stacks, and you can manipulate those. < 1085674040 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda cheating again :) < 1085674078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda. oh, and it includes a "system information" command, which has the side-effect (can't remember if this was in the standard) that you can use it like the PICK word from forth. < 1085674078 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some ways that 98 version makes the whole thing a lot easier, but also a lot more confusing if someone wants to use all the things possible in it < 1085674098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you're not familiar with forth, it just reaches into the stack and pulls out a number from an arbitrary depth.) < 1085674118 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't familiar with that < 1085674131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it indeed was 'pick'. < 1085674136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't been doing forth much lately. < 1085674222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the playfield was redefined from the older "80x25-unit torus-grid" to "infinite lahey-space" < 1085674233 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1085674250 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, in 93 there's 80x25 'cells' to play with? < 1085674269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1085674290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a strictly conforming befunge93 interpreter/compiler/thing, that is. < 1085674323 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1085674401 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some smaller limits in languages is what i've always liked < 1085674404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and another difference: '93 had a defined 8-bit playfield and 32-bit stack. in funge98 the actual amount of bits is implementation-defined, but stack cells and playfield cells will be the same size. < 1085674425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly 32 bits, I guess. < 1085674449 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1085674467 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can put anything from the stack to the playfield without having to worry about it being too big. < 1085674475 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1085674551 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't pretty useful to have 32-bit stack and 8-bit playfield in 93'? < 1085674599 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's the way it is. < 1085674604 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1085674636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorta-makes sense. the playfield is "text", composed of eight-bit octets, and the stack isn't 8-bit to allow you to calculate with larger numbers. < 1085674651 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1085674670 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actully it sounds pretty logical when you said it that way :) < 1085674763 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit off-topic, do you know any language that would have less instructions that bf's 8? < 1085674781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. I'm just bad in remembering these. < 1085674785 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1085674789 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how they work.. < 1085674790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was the one-instruction assembly language. < 1085674801 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1085674889 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now when i think about it probably some language could be made with three instructions probablu < 1085674900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, there. oisc. < 1085674906 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1085674915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one variant being a language with a single "substract and branch if negative" instruction. < 1085674922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.hawaga.org.uk/text/oisc1.html < 1085674926 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheers < 1085675002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably heard about them first in the retrocomputing museum site linked from that page. < 1085675025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has disappeared, it seems. < 1085675031 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad :( < 1085675053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, just a broken link. google finds it easily enough. < 1085675075 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good :) < 1085675174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would recommend you to see the 'pilot' link there, but it seems to be broken. < 1085675188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :severe link rot in the internet nowadays. < 1085675204 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1085675371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AUTHOR'S DISCLAIMER < 1085675371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't blame me for the language design; I think it's wretched, too, < 1085675371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I only did this implementation for the hack value. Finally, a < 1085675371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*real* language that's as perverse and limiting as INTERCAL... < 1085675382 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writes esr in his pilot interpreter READ.ME file. < 1085675403 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1085675416 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds nice < 1085675487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd recommend reading the standard and the comments.mm from the same pilot distribution, it was loads of fun, but I'm not sure finding those online would be very easy. it's IEEE standard 1154-1991. < 1085675519 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1085675533 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try to see if i find something someday < 1085675539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esr's implementation is for example in gehennom.org/~fizban/tmp/pilot-1.7.tar.gz (since I found it in my ~/tmp/ still.) < 1085675557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the standard too, but I'm not sure where I put it. < 1085675580 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not in ~/txt/ for some reason. < 1085675664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that standard number seems bogus. < 1085675680 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1154-1991.pdf archived [Bus Architecture/Microprocessor/Microcomputer]" < 1085675839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, no. < 1085675842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct it was. < 1085675844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1154-1991 IEEE Standard for Programmed Inquiry, Learning, or Teaching (PILOT)" < 1085675898 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1085676015 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, i think i'll go now :( < 1085676030 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been nice chatting, see you some other time :) < 1085676069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll abuse hut's IEEE account to re-fetch the standard since I seem to have terminally misplaced it. < 1085676072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye. < 1085676076 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1085676079 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1085679400 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys have talked for pages and pages. < 1085679448 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1085680490 0 :edwinb!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1085681355 0 :edwinb!dcs3ecb@cs-186.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1085682652 0 :Toreu1!qhmww@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1085682662 0 :Toreu1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1085682674 0 :Toreu1!dxgqs@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1085682686 0 :Toreu1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1085687980 0 :Keymaker!nobody@212-246-180-215.dial.tpo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1085688083 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, does Daniel C., that brainf#ck coder, visit this place sometimes? < 1085688332 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes an apparition with the nickname 'dbc' indeed appears. usually it creates some sort of piece of ascii art. < 1085688350 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1085688358 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, thanks for info < 1085688377 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just thought it would be nice to talk him a bit sometime :) < 1085688421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, see what happens in the beginning of http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/04.05.25 < 1085688521 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha interesting :D < 1085688557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another example is http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/04.04.29 < 1085688577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and .28 too. < 1085688784 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh strange stuff, but well made < 1085688806 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if it's some brainfuck program that did those fractals? < 1085688880 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1085688898 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1085690661 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just curiously asking; how old is this channel? I mean how many year you've been here? < 1085690714 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's been very long. < 1085690734 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1085690736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one sets of my irc logs #esoteric.log was first opened Mon Dec 09 07:24:10 2002 < 1085690752 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1085690758 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not long time ago < 1085690884 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, my lists/lang-eso email folder has 840 messages. wouldn't have thought it that active. < 1085690895 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1085690910 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any way to read those in web? < 1085690952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 06:08:17 +0000 (GMT) < 1085690957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subject: [chat] Re: Esolang IRC channel < 1085690962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so now we can be found at OPN, #esoteric (it's ours!). < 1085691005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.sange.fi/archive/ should have the list archives. < 1085691019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's been pretty silent lately. < 1085691039 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok - thanks a lot! :) < 1085692115 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting material., < 1085692281 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quux.befunge.org/jsbef for all your online computation needs :) < 1085692339 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly it's the only useful debugger I know that works in linux < 1085692351 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1085692362 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks very nice < 1085692724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the glfunge98 debugger, which exists in approximately .2% of the parallel universes. not in this one, unfortunately. < 1085692794 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for wumpus cave generation, jsbef is a lot slower than bef86 < 1085692828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the de-facto befunge93 benchmark" < 1085692834 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that javascript optimisation and still a 10000x speed difference compared to simple assembly < 1085692840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've always used fibre when comparing interpreters. < 1085692859 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1085693157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which maybe isn't the most balanced befunge program ever written. < 1085693166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't measure stringmode speed at all, for example. :p < 1085693208 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, put/get may have "unnecessary" penalties < 1085693217 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like checking for illegal memory accesses :P < 1085693356 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a JIT style intepreter would have to do a lot of processing to deal with self-modification < 1085693486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm. < 1085693505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how lindi's x86 compiler thing is doing. < 1085693943 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1085693959 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _almost_ wrote a befunge debugger < 1085693971 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not quite < 1085693972 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost? :) < 1085693987 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i wanted to write one. < 1085693987 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote one with single stepping in C and got bored :) < 1085694147 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that qualifies as almost, then all the almosts over the world should qualify as several quite functionals :) < 1085694207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wrote the ti-86 debugger thing, and a ti-86 befunge interpreter. combine these two and you have a befunge debugger. < 1085694219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not the easiest one, but still. < 1085694230 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mooz-: you wrote the ti86 interpreter? < 1085694233 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1085694254 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds pretty impressive < 1085694255 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've sort of looked at it < 1085694269 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it crashed :) < 1085694280 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wah :) < 1085694281 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was very impressive :) < 1085694305 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think it crashes if there are no befunge programs on the calculator :> < 1085694316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played hunt-the-wumpus with it during boring math lectures in was-it-now-high-school-or-what-oh-the-school-systems-are-so-different-everywhere. < 1085694332 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1085694347 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i deleted it because actually _editing_ befunge programs was such a pain < 1085694356 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've done anything else that would be considered useful with it. < 1085694378 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote a bf interpreter in ti-basic, but my physics substitute teacher deleted it :| < 1085694385 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1085694391 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never did revenge him < 1085694393 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1085694397 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really bad luck :( < 1085694403 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's horrible :/ < 1085694405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a 'furth' interpreter in ti-basic. a forth-clone/forth-based-language. < 1085694408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was.. pretty slow? < 1085694410 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless writing a combinatory logic interpreter qualifies as revenge < 1085694416 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it probably does < 1085694445 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it understood s,k,i and * for output :) < 1085694465 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i nearly went mad designing it. < 1085694493 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine < 1085694506 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ti-basic is one of the worst flavors ever < 1085694542 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't had a good change to test the language :( always too busy < 1085694551 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ti-basic i mean < 1085694555 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sufficiently broken to be considered esoteric < 1085694606 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you use the calculator to input the code < 1085694625 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1085694639 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's any way to input characters like _ \ ` < 1085694667 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one has to make a string or basic program on the computer to do that :P < 1085694683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one way to do that is with the befunge interpreter and put, right? < 1085694701 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :P < 1085694710 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then freeze the state < 1085694772 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the frozen program contains the altered playfield < 1085694849 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disgusting < 1085694862 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the assembly wasn't exactly better :) < 1085694886 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z80 is nice < 1085694962 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the supplied coding method of typing hex values might not be optimal < 1085694974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but after you've managed to input them once, you can put them to custom menu and then you at least _can_ write befunge with the normal editor. < 1085694993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although programs with >=20-character lines were problematic. < 1085695006 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno about z80 being nice < 1085695017 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is < 1085695025 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i just don't appreciate assembly < 1085695037 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like to learn it.. < 1085695048 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would certainly be cool to hack together some custom hardware using a z80 as the brain < 1085695083 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would require learning so much stuff it's not even funny. < 1085695083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z80 felt definitely nicer to write for than for example 6502. not that I'd have done much with either. < 1085695128 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament; thought about that at some point, but abandoned the idea due to massively sucking in electronics :P < 1085695129 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seven z80 cpus somewhere here, in case I ever felt like that. 'yleiselektroniikka' sold those for something like 0.50e/piece. < 1085695137 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most i have done in z80 was a program that converted a (hardcoded) number into a string like "three thousand eleven hundred fity one" < 1085695151 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: not connected to anything? < 1085695172 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an fpga platform from xilinx might be fun for practising with an fpga though < 1085695172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside a plastic tube-like cover. not connected, no. < 1085695181 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vhdl isn't that bad < 1085695183 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my biggest z80 program is the md5 algo and OTP-key-calculator. < 1085695245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, building custom stuff with a z80 is significantly harder than with pic-like chips. z80 cpu needs external memory and a set of supportive chips. < 1085695250 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was playing around with the idea of a chip for interpreting intercal < 1085695264 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select and butterfly are ridiculously expensive < 1085695274 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while a hardware butterfly is just some wires crossed < 1085695283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were supposed to build us befunge processor, not intercal-optimized ones. < 1085695295 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select is no more complex than a multiply < 1085695312 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie; yeah, but then thought it'd be slower than an interpreter running on a modern pc < 1085695313 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you know hardware/electronics stuff? < 1085695349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament; no, but I have the z80 book from zilog somewhere, and after looking at it I indefinitely postponed any z80-based electronic-building-projects. < 1085695361 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :( < 1085695374 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you gave the book to me I think :P < 1085695374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, I hate soldering stuff together, mainly because I so much suck at it. < 1085695389 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's definitely one book here that wasn't before < 1085695396 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly. < 1085695398 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :electronics stuff sounds so cool and exciting. < 1085695410 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vhdl would be a sane way to do it < 1085695424 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds cool and exciting, but in the end you've left with a lump of solder and the smell of burning plastic. < 1085695431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ve/re/ < 1085695432 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to mess with any hardware, just write code and synthesize the logic :) < 1085695461 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the existing test platforms have serial, parallel and vga ports < 1085695507 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the very least i want one of those small LCDs that one could hack to connect to the serial port and display uptime < 1085695522 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even that requires much more skills, knowledge and equipment than i posess :( < 1085695557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a 20x4 alphanumeric lcd here. < 1085695565 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just waiting for someone to solder the connections. :p < 1085695585 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soldering is a huge pain :/ < 1085695605 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get a breadboard < 1085695638 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a pain just to solder some wires to a normal socket < 1085695649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't really need any _knowledge_ for that, though, the thing is directly interfaceable to a normal parallel port. 8 data lines into the chip, few status/output lines that can be tied into the parallel port control lines (out of paper, on/offline and stuff). < 1085695684 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you have to solder then? < 1085695706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 12+ wires onto the lcd display, and the same wires into a d25 connector. < 1085695746 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think our attempt to solder 5 wires into one DIN resulted in 3 being connected at one point < 1085695753 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it went downwards again < 1085695754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes. < 1085695764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a 5-din connector is relatively big. < 1085695799 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1085695809 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what equipment would i need to start with electronics stuff? < 1085695826 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A soldering iron, a breadboard, a multimeter - is that all? < 1085695833 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1085695838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heaps of patience. < 1085695841 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some components, obviously < 1085695843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-shaky hands. < 1085695882 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1085695908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some 10+ years ago I built few of those "kit contains a pcb, the required components and assembly instructions" kits with a friend. < 1085695970 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then what happened? < 1085695974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course soldering stuff into a pre-made pcb with ~1cm empty spaces between stuff I could accidentally mess up I managed to do. < 1085696058 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the easiest way is to get a breadboard with pre-made connectors going in one direction < 1085696071 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a small drill for severing them as necessary < 1085696089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have few pieces of that. < 1085696148 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some thin wire for doing connections in the perpendicular direction < 1085696182 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way soldering points can be as far apart as one wants < 1085696189 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have never even seen a breadboard, but they sure sound sexy < 1085696267 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps to have a simple but important project < 1085696287 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as interfacing to a 1570 floppy drive :P < 1085696338 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a floppy drive made in 1570? < 1085696347 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost < 1085696354 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for the C64/C128 < 1085696364 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1085696369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gehennom.org/~fizban/tmp/lcd.jpg < 1085696394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a 20x4-character lcd screen. < 1085696410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing under it is a normal-sized cd so you could see the size. < 1085696437 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem to fit in a 5.25" drive bay < 1085696448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit too high, yes. < 1085696474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a row of 16 contacts, and I should attach and solder a wire into all of them, without any pieces of metal touching each other. < 1085696509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the main reason the display's not connected to anything and spends its time in a vaguely pink plastic bag under (other) heaps of junk here. < 1085696510 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll go, good nite < 1085696511 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1085696512 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where would all those wires lead to? < 1085696558 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parallel port connector? < 1085696597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 would go to the output lines of a pc parallel port, "a few" (4? 5?) would go to the out/in/both status-lines of a pc parallel port, two would connect to a +5v dc power supply, and one would hold a potentiometer-thing controlling the brightness of the backlight. < 1085696756 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can check out http://www.powertip.com.tw/product/PC%20SERIES/PC%201602F.PDF if you really want to know. < 1085696821 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1085696823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also had the programming instructions somewhere. < 1085696833 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from that pdf you're supposed to understand how to wire it? < 1085696860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, from that and all the other documentation in the interweb about interfacing lcd displays with a pc parallel port. < 1085696898 0 :Toreun!fcajv@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1085696978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, uh, the stuff in http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ih/doc/par/ < 1085697014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the "what wire goes where" aspect of this thing that causes trouble, it's the physical act of getting the damn things connected the way I'd want them to be. < 1085697096 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'd just want to write the code to control that thing. < 1085697106 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Tech Support: "Sir...the 286 chip is soldered on the motherboard!" < 1085697107 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Customer: "I know, I took out my handy soldering iron and took it out and put the 486 on myself." < 1085697107 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Tech Support: "Sir, the 486 is bigger than the 286." < 1085697107 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Customer: "I know, I had to use quite a bit of solder to solder the extra pins together." < 1085697114 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish it worked like that < 1085697173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. back in your pink plastic back you go, little lcd, to wait for better times. < 1085697188 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you get married < 1085697193 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your wife will do it for you < 1085697209 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking more about the time when I have my very own robotic servant I can tell to do the soldering. < 1085697215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's a far more likely outcome. < 1085697252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there's the problem that robots always turn against humans. < 1085697273 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe I could persuade it to solder my lcd display before it kills me. < 1085697276 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do wives < 1085697289 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably 50/50 with those < 1085697318 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as robots, really < 1085697477 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you'll wait until you get a bald, green head, learn telekinesis, start wearing a skin-colored human mask and worship a large atomic bomb < 1085697482 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bound to happen < 1085697498 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the telekinesis may then help) < 1085697593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can learn telekinesis already. < 1085697615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to buy a $30 CD, with superliminal hypnotic programming. < 1085697615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned this from the internet. < 1085697981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt.folklore.computers tells of their variant of hexadecimal notation, where the digits were 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, K, S, N, J, F, L. < 1085697999 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0xK7NL1JSS" < 1085698041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er s/their/a system called ORDVAC's/ < 1085698224 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonedrful < 1085698236 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do those letters stand for? < 1085698447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea. selected presumedly for legibility reasons instead of the usual [a-f] set. < 1085698468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Through arrangements made by Dean L. N. Ridenour, the University of Illinois began construction of ORDVAC about 15 April 1949" < 1085698489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my birthday, only 34 years earlier. < 1085698527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the arithmetic unit in it can do a multiply in 700 microseconds. impressive! < 1085698614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" When ORDVAC was delivered to the Ballistic Research Laboratory its input device was a standard-speed five hole teletype tape reader and its output a teletype page printer. With this equipment, the time necessary to load the entire memory of 1,024 addresses was 38 minutes. The time required to print the contents of the entire memory was the same." < 1085698623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things have definitely changed since then. < 1085698840 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an 'address'? < 1085698843 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a byte? < 1085698850 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5-bit? < 1085698858 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 bit? < 1085698908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure. it seems to use "electrostatic memory" built with cathode-ray tubes. < 1085698928 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but if the teletype reader had 5 holes < 1085698934 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5-bit seems logical < 1085698946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's "1024 words" < 1085698967 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1085698975 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's logical that words would be 10-bit < 1085698983 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40-bit words, actually. < 1085698991 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, fuck logic then :) < 1085699017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words sizes usually haven't had that much to do with logic. < 1085699022 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the total memory of 40960 bit? < 1085699038 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, but you need 10 bits to address a space of 1024 addresses < 1085699044 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 40 bits < 1085699050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they later added an 10032-word magnetic drum. < 1085699074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you'd want to calculate with quantities >10 bits. < 1085699091 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1085699108 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never < 1085699127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even later replaced the electrostatic memory with a 4096--word 'magnetic core memory'. < 1085699145 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high-tech < 1085699151 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1085699163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have somewhere here an orange book that tells how to convert algol-60 programs to fortran-2/4 programs. < 1085699206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't try to teach any of the languages, only what kind of fortran structures to convert algol structures to, and vice versa. < 1085699214 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, http://www.norvig.com/palindrome.html < 1085699220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the book includes a few dozen pages filled with machine word sizes. < 1085700470 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament; I think there's finnish palindromes with several hundred words at least, which make up a semi-coherent story < 1085700527 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more like a comma-separated list < 1085700597 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probabyl because all finnish words are palindromes < 1085700601 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1085700619 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have the same general structure < 1085700620 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english isn't very suitable for them and finnish is the best suited language I know, that is true < 1085700623 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VCCV < 1085700634 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where V and V is the same vowel < 1085700639 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C and C is the same consonant :) < 1085700648 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saippuakauppias is a word someone might seriously use < 1085700657 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soap salesman < 1085700684 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a not-so-coherent english palidrome story that was about 2000 bytes long awhile ago < 1085700684 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some language the word 'palindrome' is a palindrome. < 1085700704 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1085700720 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the word meaning the same as 'palindrome', rather :) < 1085700728 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the word designating the concept of palindrome < 1085700732 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, semantics < 1085700802 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the word that means palindrome" < 1085700861 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>In any case, does anyone remember any other variant forms of < 1085700861 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> hexadecimal inflicted on the long-suffering computer programmer? < 1085700861 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0123456789STUVWX < 1085700862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the first machine I ever programmed (or used), the mighty Monrobot XI < 1085700882 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1085700896 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP would be neat < 1085700910 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wazzoobar < 1085700922 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better yet, the 16 most common letters of the englihs alphabet < 1085700956 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i have implemented that as a "string encoding" once, for storing two characters in one byte) < 1085700979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mooz; wouldn't that be WizzooBar. < 1085700986 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1085701007 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone with the nick juuichiketajin posted a way to convert any number into a metasyntactic variable name < 1085701027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a sed script which does that for relatively big numbers. < 1085701112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrr. did my brain just misfire? seems the sed script was about turning numbers to english text-representation. < 1085701131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have a C shared library (libfoo) to do it. :p < 1085701140 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never run out of good variable names when 1234567890 can be converted into FizzooBarDazzleBuzzazWazzooHizzooSpooRazzleKuzzinkKazzankKizzonk. < 1085701229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9aqupt%24hd4%241%40bob.news.rcn.net has the original post. < 1085701251 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.hut.fi/~jjarvi1/foo2.scm shows them in action < 1085701276 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with all the Zs < 1085701298 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the "foo.scm" next to that foo2.scm printed out with my dot matrix printer and on my wall. < 1085701304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the output it produces. < 1085701326 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo bar baz woo hoo spoo kink kank konk fizzoo fizzoofoo fizzoobar... < 1085701340 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the izz/azz/uzz designate 10, 100, 1000 < 1085701363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char * foo_val[9][2] = { < 1085701363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"F", "oo"}, {"B", "ar"}, {"B", "az"}, < 1085701363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"W", "oo"}, {"H", "oo"}, {"Sp", "oo"}, < 1085701363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"K", "ink"}, {"K", "ank"}, {"K", "onk"} < 1085701363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}; < 1085701365 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char * foo_add[4] = {"", "izz", "azz", "uzz"}; < 1085701368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char * foo_div[4] = {"Razzle", "Dazzle", "Giggle", "Wiggle"}; < 1085701374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what my libfoo used. < 1085701404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure where the Giggle and Wiggle came from. < 1085701412 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily you get quite a few names before having to resort to giggling < 1085701418 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid I came up with those < 1085701460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a random metasyntactic variable: FizzooWooGiggleKuzzinkBazzazBizzarKonkDazzleKuzzankWazzooKizzinkBarRazzleKuzzonkBazzazKizzankWoo < 1085701542 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose they could be used as jump targets and the assembler could turn them into a memory address < 1085701568 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful for jumping into a preset location somewhere, and pretending there's a label < 1085701594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next time I write a disassembler or a decompiler or something that needs to generate lost labels, I'll just foo-convert the values of the labels. < 1085701615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto WuzzooBazzazKizzonkKankDazzleKuzzinkWazzooKizzonkKankRazzleBuzzarBazzazKizzinkHoo; < 1085701652 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbolic==good < 1085701658 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1085701662 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :witness the power of DNS < 1085701673 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this metasyntactic system makes DNS obsolete, though < 1085701677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1085701680 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need for resolvers. < 1085701682 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's google.com in metasyntactic? < 1085701697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google has a lot of addresses. < 1085701712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BuzzarFazzooSpizzooBarDazzleBuzzazKazzonkBazRazzleKuzzinkKizzonkKonk would be one. < 1085701724 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy to remember. < 1085701732 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Requires no overhead. < 1085701737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(using the three-digit decimal way to convert the address. could use a 32-bit value.) < 1085701783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously BizzazHooDazzleKuzzinkBazzarWizzooWooRazzleBuzzarWazzooSpizzooKink is another way to say the same thing. < 1085701835 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they even look similar. < 1085702111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you see, (i=BizzazHooDazzleKuzzinkBazzarWizzooWooRazzleBuzzarWazzooSpizzooKink, ((i>>BizzarWoo)&BazzarHizzooHoo)*FizzooDazzle + ((i>>FizzooSpoo)&BazzarHizzooHoo)*FazzooRazzle + ((i>>Kank)&BazzarHizzooHoo)*Fuzzoo) would evaluate to BuzzarFazzooSpizzooBarDazzleBuzzazKazzonkBazRazzleKuzzinkKizzonkKonk. < 1085702157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nngh. obviously I mean: ((i>>BizzarWoo)&BazzarHizzooHoo)*FizzooDazzle + ((i>>FizzooSpoo)&BazzarHizzooHoo)*FazzooRazzle + ((i>>Kank)&BazzarHizzooHoo)*Fuzzoo + (i&BazzarHizzooHoo) < 1085702213 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1085702222 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curiously, also the japanese use 10000 as the point where a new unit name is used < 1085702240 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, could be related to the inventor's origins < 1085702300 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just as logical and a lot more compact