< 1086048196 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sk combinators are a way of "encoding" closed untyped lambda calculus expressions < 1086048224 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. every closed expression in lambda calculus can be defined in terms of sk combinators < 1086048237 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can compute the sk combinator expressions from the lc expression < 1086048262 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in untyped lc, you can encode booleans < 1086048310 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true == \t . \f . t < 1086048318 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false == \t . \f . f < 1086048345 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are closed expressions, and can thus be translated into an sk combinator representation < 1086048365 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly, functions like and, or, xor, ... can be translated < 1086049154 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, possible translations are true == K and false == K I < 1086049368 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kosmikus: and what is the application? < 1086049548 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I understand the question. The application is that you can write functions on booleans. < 1086049620 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1086049624 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if true is K < 1086049627 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and false is K I < 1086049633 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what is K (K I) ? < 1086049925 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it cannot be reduced, because K takes two arguments < 1086049950 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :furthermore, it does "not make sense", because you're trying to apply true to false < 1086049956 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1086049968 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole system is untyped, though, and does not prevent you from doing things that do not make sense < 1086050038 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what _i_ was talking about < 1086050063 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a way to map any combinator expression to T or F < 1086050081 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a way which would make at least some amount of sense) < 1086050111 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you want to do that? < 1086050140 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So i can put XOR together with S, K, I :) < 1086050261 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to view it like that, you can choose any mapping from combinator expressions to T or F that you like < 1086050299 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm afraid that this has nothing to do with the encodings of true and false, then < 1086050498 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1086062563 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086062563 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1086076799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1086076800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086084792 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086084792 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1086101573 0 :Keymaker!nobody@212-246-180-39.dial.tpo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086101587 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1086105788 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh, need to go < 1086105791 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1086109430 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as02-pho-az-205-186-105-118.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086109449 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086112226 0 :Keymaker!nobody@212-246-180-15.dial.tpo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086112241 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hay < 1086112293 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086112297 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi lament < 1086112304 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's going? < 1086112317 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowly, painfully < 1086112320 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the wrong direction < 1086112326 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1086112923 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1086116454 0 :Keymaker|sauna!nobody@212-246-180-61.dial.tpo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086116455 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1086116485 0 :Keymaker|sauna!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Keymaker < 1086117166 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you listen any (music)? < 1086117397 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not right now. < 1086117490 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1086117500 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of, when listening? < 1086117598 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1086117617 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bach < 1086117654 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i see < 1086117677 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not very familiar with his works but some what i've heard has been quite good < 1086117776 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'quite good' is a serious understatement wrt Bach :) < 1086117805 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hee < 1086117812 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant 'heh' :) < 1086118019 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aside from being the ultimate music, it also happens to be the ultimate geek music < 1086118048 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know that, well, usefull tip :) < 1086118076 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason for that is that it's so mind-bogglingly hugely complex. < 1086118097 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean structurally. < 1086118107 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not emotionally or something wishy-washy like that. < 1086118127 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1086118141 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that classic music often is -- complex < 1086118198 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bach is by far more complex than most other classical music. < 1086118202 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1086118209 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really by far < 1086118237 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1086118255 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like (almost) allkinds of electronic music < 1086118259 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasonably modern symphonic music is very complex as well < 1086118297 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1086118359 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, arguably, this complexity is less significant in the overall design. < 1086118368 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it's there but you aren't really supposed to pay attention to it. < 1086118390 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1086118417 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :closer listening reveals it :) < 1086118484 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but there's not much meaning to it. < 1086118493 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1086118527 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that's what it seems like. < 1086118532 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm probably wrong, too. < 1086118584 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) well, music can be hard to [some word i can remember here] < 1086118605 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rrg, i meant [some word i can't remem....] < 1086118956 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... :) < 1086119001 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the structural complexity in most music (where it's present at all) is secondary. < 1086119042 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, what is 'firstary'? :) < 1086119158 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other kinds of structural complexity :) < 1086119188 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1086119193 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1086119265 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bach, the complexity is polyphonic. < 1086119341 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1086119353 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most symphonic music the complexity is either development-related ("serial" as opposed to "parallel" in bach) < 1086119407 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or related to the instruments and the arrangement. < 1086119425 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and quality of the sound produced) < 1086119430 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1086119457 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in modern music, probably including electronic music, the emphasis is shifted very strongly towards the quality of the sound < 1086119475 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some modern classical pieces have nothing else :) < 1086119514 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see :) < 1086119543 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. of all these kind of complexity, polyphonic complexity is the most geeky :) < 1086119559 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guessed that :) < 1086119570 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it might be good for me to listen some bach some day < 1086119619 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it's just so hard to understand and because it's fairly mathematical in nature) < 1086119643 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1086119789 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neal stephenson wrote a bit about that in cryptonomicon < 1086119811 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1086119826 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't heard of them :( < 1086119838 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i don't know about neal or cryptonomicon < 1086119850 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some site? < 1086119864 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have the excuse of being finnish. < 1086119873 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1086119895 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :) < 1086122748 0 :Keymaker[-]!nobody@212-246-180-143.dial.tpo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086123812 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1086124974 0 :Keymaker[-]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1086124985 0 :Keymaker[-]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems that it's goodbye for this nite < 1086124992 0 :Keymaker[-]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1086130903 0 :calamari_!~Jeffry@as02-pho-az-205-186-105-135.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086130909 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re's < 1086130997 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way to handle these unary operators is really stumping me < 1086131074 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they are handled.. it just doesn't match c very well :)