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04:09:33 <calamari_> cyas
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05:57:53 <Toreun> Hi WildHalcyon_
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06:07:35 <calamari_> hi
06:07:52 <Toreun> hi calamari_
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06:26:11 <calamari_> bedtime.. bbl :)
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17:44:10 <calamari_> hi
17:48:59 <Toreun> hi
17:52:29 <calamari_> I just had a thought about BF.. it's not quite symmetric.  "[ ] = while (*p) { }", but there is no "{ } = while (p) { }".. with that you could do {<} to set p =0
17:53:34 <Toreun> is that really necessary though?  do you have to keep track of the absolute pointer location?
17:54:01 <lament> calamari_: pointer locations aren't numbered
17:54:09 <lament> there's just "left" and "right"
17:54:10 <Toreun> I would think that it would detract from the "purity"? of BF
17:54:29 <calamari_> it's not necessary, but neither is - (you can just loop around with +'s)
17:54:43 <lament> calamari_: no, that's implementation-dependent
17:54:46 <calamari_> lament: you are missing the point entirely
17:54:48 <Toreun> and by that logic, neither is < or >
17:54:49 <lament> calamari_: your numbers might be infinite
17:57:06 <lament> your memory space might also be infinite
17:57:27 <Toreun> exactly
17:57:38 <calamari_> lament: there's nothing saying that cells in bf are positive only, or finite.. this is true.. but that makes [-] equally as valid as {<}
17:57:55 <calamari_> because with a negative cell, [-] goes off to infinity
17:58:05 <calamari_> (negative infinity that is)
17:58:12 <lament> but the real problem with {} is that it's so completely useless
17:58:18 <lament> for anything but the {-} construct
17:58:24 <lament> er=
17:58:27 <lament> i mean the {<}
17:58:47 <lament> and so easily replaceable with a sentinel in any case
17:59:06 <calamari_> lament: not true.. you can do "add" loops to set big pointers 
18:00:12 <calamari_> but.. like I said, it's not needed... but not as symmetric without it
18:00:41 <lament> meh
18:03:00 <Toreun> just wondering, did anyone ever make brainfuck-native hardware? I read something about it awhile, and I'm just wondering if anything happened with it
18:03:12 <calamari_> hmm.. { } makes it possible to get/set the mp from a cell value during program execution making arrays much less wasteful
18:03:32 <calamari_> toreun: I think they made a chip and showed it at a demo party?
18:03:45 <calamari_> but that could be way off
18:04:23 <Toreun> hmm well I guess that could always be a college engineering design project.
18:04:49 <calamari_> I was reading about a MOVE machine earlier, seems pretty interesting (move is the only "instruction", i/o and jmps are memory mapped)
18:05:47 <Toreun> interesting
18:06:08 <calamari_> http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/arch/risc/
18:10:06 <lament> http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/arch/risc/
18:10:09 <lament> oops
18:11:51 <lament> calamari_: hm, that's a fairly neat one
18:11:58 <lament> i like it more than OISC
18:12:34 <lament> cool page
18:26:00 <lament> aww
18:26:25 <lament> this link is broken: http://www.cs.eku.edu/~styer/oisc.html
18:26:26 <lament> :(
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20:30:55 <calamari_> lament: http://web.archive.org/web/20030425001315/http://www.cs.eku.edu/~styer/oisc.html
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