< 1086048196 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sk combinators are a way of "encoding" closed untyped lambda calculus expressions < 1086048224 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. every closed expression in lambda calculus can be defined in terms of sk combinators < 1086048237 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can compute the sk combinator expressions from the lc expression < 1086048262 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in untyped lc, you can encode booleans < 1086048310 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true == \t . \f . t < 1086048318 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false == \t . \f . f < 1086048345 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are closed expressions, and can thus be translated into an sk combinator representation < 1086048365 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly, functions like and, or, xor, ... can be translated < 1086049154 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, possible translations are true == K and false == K I < 1086049368 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kosmikus: and what is the application? < 1086049548 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I understand the question. The application is that you can write functions on booleans. < 1086049620 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1086049624 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if true is K < 1086049627 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and false is K I < 1086049633 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what is K (K I) ? < 1086049925 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it cannot be reduced, because K takes two arguments < 1086049950 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :furthermore, it does "not make sense", because you're trying to apply true to false < 1086049956 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1086049968 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole system is untyped, though, and does not prevent you from doing things that do not make sense < 1086050038 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what _i_ was talking about < 1086050063 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a way to map any combinator expression to T or F < 1086050081 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a way which would make at least some amount of sense) < 1086050111 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you want to do that? < 1086050140 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So i can put XOR together with S, K, I :) < 1086050261 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to view it like that, you can choose any mapping from combinator expressions to T or F that you like < 1086050299 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm afraid that this has nothing to do with the encodings of true and false, then < 1086050498 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1086062563 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086062563 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1086076799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1086076800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086084792 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086084792 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1086101573 0 :Keymaker!nobody@212-246-180-39.dial.tpo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086101587 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1086105788 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh, need to go < 1086105791 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1086109430 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as02-pho-az-205-186-105-118.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086109449 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086112226 0 :Keymaker!nobody@212-246-180-15.dial.tpo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086112241 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hay < 1086112293 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086112297 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi lament < 1086112304 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's going? < 1086112317 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowly, painfully < 1086112320 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the wrong direction < 1086112326 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1086112923 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1086116454 0 :Keymaker|sauna!nobody@212-246-180-61.dial.tpo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086116455 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1086116485 0 :Keymaker|sauna!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Keymaker < 1086117166 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you listen any (music)? < 1086117397 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not right now. < 1086117490 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1086117500 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of, when listening? < 1086117598 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1086117617 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bach < 1086117654 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i see < 1086117677 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not very familiar with his works but some what i've heard has been quite good < 1086117776 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'quite good' is a serious understatement wrt Bach :) < 1086117805 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hee < 1086117812 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant 'heh' :) < 1086118019 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aside from being the ultimate music, it also happens to be the ultimate geek music < 1086118048 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know that, well, usefull tip :) < 1086118076 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason for that is that it's so mind-bogglingly hugely complex. < 1086118097 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean structurally. < 1086118107 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not emotionally or something wishy-washy like that. < 1086118127 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1086118141 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that classic music often is -- complex < 1086118198 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bach is by far more complex than most other classical music. < 1086118202 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1086118209 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really by far < 1086118237 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1086118255 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like (almost) allkinds of electronic music < 1086118259 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasonably modern symphonic music is very complex as well < 1086118297 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1086118359 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, arguably, this complexity is less significant in the overall design. < 1086118368 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it's there but you aren't really supposed to pay attention to it. < 1086118390 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1086118417 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :closer listening reveals it :) < 1086118484 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but there's not much meaning to it. < 1086118493 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1086118527 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that's what it seems like. < 1086118532 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm probably wrong, too. < 1086118584 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) well, music can be hard to [some word i can remember here] < 1086118605 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rrg, i meant [some word i can't remem....] < 1086118956 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... :) < 1086119001 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the structural complexity in most music (where it's present at all) is secondary. < 1086119042 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, what is 'firstary'? :) < 1086119158 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other kinds of structural complexity :) < 1086119188 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1086119193 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1086119265 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bach, the complexity is polyphonic. < 1086119341 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1086119353 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most symphonic music the complexity is either development-related ("serial" as opposed to "parallel" in bach) < 1086119407 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or related to the instruments and the arrangement. < 1086119425 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and quality of the sound produced) < 1086119430 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1086119457 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in modern music, probably including electronic music, the emphasis is shifted very strongly towards the quality of the sound < 1086119475 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some modern classical pieces have nothing else :) < 1086119514 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see :) < 1086119543 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. of all these kind of complexity, polyphonic complexity is the most geeky :) < 1086119559 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guessed that :) < 1086119570 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it might be good for me to listen some bach some day < 1086119619 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it's just so hard to understand and because it's fairly mathematical in nature) < 1086119643 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1086119789 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neal stephenson wrote a bit about that in cryptonomicon < 1086119811 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1086119826 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't heard of them :( < 1086119838 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i don't know about neal or cryptonomicon < 1086119850 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some site? < 1086119864 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have the excuse of being finnish. < 1086119873 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1086119895 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :) < 1086122748 0 :Keymaker[-]!nobody@212-246-180-143.dial.tpo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086123812 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1086124974 0 :Keymaker[-]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1086124985 0 :Keymaker[-]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems that it's goodbye for this nite < 1086124992 0 :Keymaker[-]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1086130903 0 :calamari_!~Jeffry@as02-pho-az-205-186-105-135.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086130909 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re's < 1086130997 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way to handle these unary operators is really stumping me < 1086131074 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they are handled.. it just doesn't match c very well :) < 1086138134 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay,. found the bug :) < 1086138575 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1086138580 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it? < 1086138611 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad peek function < 1086138664 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unique unary works great.. need to put in some lookahead for +/- (to decide whether it is minus or negation, etC) < 1086138710 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1086139514 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1086139528 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you're writing it in sed? < 1086139568 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, not that skilled hehe < 1086139615 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :postfix ++ has higher precedence than prefix --.. can you guys think of an expression where that matters? < 1086139763 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random - a quote I just saw: < 1086139763 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yow! I've just lost the SOURCE CODE for all my QUINE PROGRAMS! What < 1086139763 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will I DO NOW with just the BINARIES?" < 1086139763 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-David Madore < 1086146453 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1086147181 0 :echo!~echo@h203.136.40.162.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086162799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't, because there are no equivalent-precedence non-unary operators and you can't apply postfix-++ and prefix-'--' to a same object. < 1086162806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, he left already. < 1086163199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1086163200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086163979 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1086163979 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1086167179 0 :echo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1086176754 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1086191577 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as02-pho-az-205-186-105-121.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086191721 0 :Keymaker!nobody@212-246-180-213.dial.tpo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086191730 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086193359 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Keymaker < 1086193385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari; 09:49:04 < fizzie> I can't, because there are no equivalent-precedence non-unary operators and you can't apply postfix-++ and prefix-'--' to a same object. < 1086193394 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiya < 1086193543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with other postfix/prefix operator combinations it obviously matters. < 1086193575 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's postfix/prefix operator? < 1086193619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"combinations of postfix and prefix operators", I mean. < 1086193640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keymaker; you missed the original question, too, I think: < 1086193641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:22:41 < calamari_> postfix ++ has higher precedence than prefix --.. can you guys think of an expression where that matters? < 1086193705 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i missed, well, can't understand anyways... < 1086193723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's writing that C compiler. < 1086193729 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ! < 1086193770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has funky precedence rules anyway. < 1086193854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do bitwise shift operators have higher precedence than the comparison operators (<, >, ==, !=) while the bitwise ands, ors and xors don't? < 1086193907 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I asked in C and was forcefully enlightened :) < 1086193909 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err #c < 1086193927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhmm? < 1086193945 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a++ vs *++a < 1086193985 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or actually, even a++ vs ++a.. they return different values < 1086194016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, their only difference is in the value they return. < 1086194129 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe I understand the reasoning with the postincrement thing, it'd be funny to have *++a behave like "*(++a)" and *a++ behave like "(*a)++". < 1086194198 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I don't understand is the lowness of the bitwise operators. I'd think "if(a & b == c)" would more often mean "if((a & b) == c)" (when using bitmasks for example) than what it currently means, "if(a & (b == c))" < 1086194217 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, iirc, that is. < 1086194223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should test just in case. < 1086194314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 & 2 == 2: 1 < 1086194314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 & 2) == 2: 0 < 1086194314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 & (2 == 2): 1 < 1086194323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid it is. < 1086194371 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need a good bf way of doing bitwise operators < 1086194399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like asking a good intercal way of doing arithmetic operations, only worse. < 1086194405 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1086194430 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "best" way I know of right now is expanding to binary then going back.. horribly slow and memory wasting < 1086194512 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for now I'll just leave 'em out < 1086194554 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I needs to go work->home now. away for a while. < 1086194570 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya.. thanks for the fresh insight :) < 1086194828 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok bye < 1086195971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back. < 1086195982 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome :) < 1086197079 0 :edwinb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1086197256 0 :edwinb!dcs3ecb@cs-186.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1086197704 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..i'm away for a while.. < 1086197708 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1086202107 0 :calamari-!JeffryJohn@as01-pho-az-205-186-104-152.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086202997 0 :x0r4n0nzx!~wowlifesu@adsl-209-30-34-93.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086203073 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1086203096 0 :x0r4n0nzx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1086214670 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086214773 0 :calamari-!JeffryJohn@as01-pho-az-205-186-104-152.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086215340 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1086223651 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1086224917 0 :Toreun!tvie@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086229737 0 :dbc!ttm@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086229756 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know why the bitwise operators have such low precedence? < 1086229835 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were originally used in many places where the logical operators are now. And so after they introduced the logical operators, they still didn't want anything else to have higher precedence than the logical operators but lower precedence than the bitwise operators, so as to avoid breaking that old code. < 1086229913 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a good reason--at least, not given that C turned into the most widely-used programming language. I think i read Ritchie acknowledging it was a mistake. < 1086230317 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In K&R2, introduction, page 3, there's a vague reference to it: "C, like any other language, has its blemishes. Some of the operators have the wrong precedence;..." < 1086231381 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly. < 1086231388 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C just sucks :) < 1086233803 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1086233823 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086246793 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament_ < 1086249599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1086249600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086271673 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086271681 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello all! < 1086271690 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good to be back.. < 1086271714 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello. < 1086271717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you missed dbc again. :p < 1086271720 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1086271723 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'oh! < 1086271736 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, i see his name there but.. < 1086271740 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..he's gone? < 1086271969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idle: 11 hours. < 1086271976 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1086271994 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but well, is that idling time so special on this channel? :) < 1086272417 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, just changed some colours, looks nice. < 1086273578 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I just love j2me, an applet can not write to a file in the phone filesystem. < 1086273645 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1086273650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I have a chunk of binary data I have to a) send it over gprs to a remote host, which costs muchly b) send it as a multimedia message to myself with the straaange^2 wireless messaging api c) send it to a computer with the bluetooth api that's not supported by the standard build tools d) write a viewer to examine the data using the device. < 1086273716 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1086274084 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Keymaker|eat < 1086274564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the audio data I get from a Manager.getPlayer("capture://audio?rate=8000"); is completely bonkers. that's it. I've done enough of this crap for today - time to stop. < 1086274750 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1086274799 0 :Keymaker|eat!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Keymaker < 1086274824 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I've done enough of this crap for today - time to stop." what now? :) < 1086274853 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.. dunno. I guess I should try getting home or something. < 1086274858 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hhm < 1086274861 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good plan < 1086274879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel weak. haven't eaten since I don't-remember-when. < 1086274895 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know the feeling < 1086274938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so eating would be another good idea. < 1086274948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad there's probably nothing here except maybe cookies. < 1086274956 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another good reason for getting home. < 1086274958 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, those good :) < 1086274978 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm always too lazy to cook - that's why noodles are my best friend < 1086274989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll take this 3com bluetooth stick with me home to play with. < 1086275028 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1086275207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :committed my stupid java test thing to the cvs since "well, everything should be in cvs". feels bad to commit broken stuff though. < 1086279017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I plugged an usb bluetooth stick to one of my linux boxen and now I have bluetooth in here. now if I could only figure out what to do with it.. < 1086279088 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory I could use the phone as a small bluetooth-based remote control thing, but with a 18m^2 apartment (and six computers usable as terminals) the need for a remote control device isn't that great. < 1086279554 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :) < 1086279569 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, pretty nice sounding flat -- six computers! < 1086279643 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOO!!!! i just converted cd to mp3 (for my own use of course), and accidentally deleted the files.. :( < 1086279805 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, now. I just said "usable as terminals". < 1086279849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them for example is a macintosh performa 5260, a rather silly powerpc thing. < 1086279898 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1086279923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another is a SGI indy (commonly described as "indigo without the go"), which achieves impressive levels of uselessness too. especially since it has irix 6.5.something installed and using it is "a bit" sluggish. < 1086279951 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1086279968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the sparcstation 5 (this I didn't even include in the count because:) doesn't even have a monitor or a keyboard attached. < 1086280004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a habit of gathering junk, if you didn't notice. :p < 1086280009 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1086280021 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just going to ask have you bought them all :) < 1086280050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I got the indy for free when the computer science department was getting rid of them. < 1086280061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I bought the sparc and performa from huuto.net. :p < 1086280066 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i se < 1086280070 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*see < 1086280088 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huuto.net has been useful source for me too getting some stuff < 1086280307 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, today i probably finally have time to work on my keen site :) < 1086283224 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086283283 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086283663 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1086284146 0 :lament_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1086284154 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1086284157 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086284171 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing anything? < 1086284191 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drinking water. < 1086284204 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1086284214 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to eat some fruit < 1086285258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wheee. I convinced my phone to open a ppp connection to my linux box, over a bluetooth serial line. < 1086285275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and managed to access local web pages using opera on the phone. < 1086285828 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1086285834 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what it looked like? < 1086285844 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sites? < 1086286748 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /j lua < 1086286750 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1086286903 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1086286923 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways -- too bad i'll go for a little walk now.. :( fresh air :( :( < 1086286928 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1086287661 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1086301201 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1086302865 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086304875 0 :dbc!ttm@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086335999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1086336000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086360222 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"you have no chance to survive make your time." < 1086365598 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086365603 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086365609 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi. < 1086365617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you missed dbc, by the way. < 1086365623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:39:21 -!- dbc [ttm@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com] has quit ["you have no chance to survive make your time."] < 1086365623 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no :( < 1086365629 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:08:57 -!- Keymaker [~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi] has joined #esoteric < 1086365639 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1086365645 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your timing is, as always, quite impressive. < 1086365651 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've noticed < 1086365663 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but well, this time it wasn't totally my own fault < 1086365730 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today i've had problems with the net, here's some new connection and dunno, maybe some people somehow roam all the bandwidth or whatever (i really dunno these terms) :( < 1086365794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't adsl connections supposed to have a fixed amount of bandwidth allocated for every user? or is that some kind of shared-by-lots-of-people connection thing? < 1086365811 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shared-by-lots-people < 1086365831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. hard to determine from the hostname in this case. < 1086365837 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1086365855 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still very happy with my current internet connectivity :) :) <3 :) < 1086365862 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1086365874 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe that < 1086365958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the thrill did wear off after the first few months, and now when I have to download something from the Real Internet (as opposed to the local network here or funet) it feels _really really slow._ (usually ~100-500kB/s) < 1086365979 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only... < 1086365981 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1086366003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm becoming bandwidth-spoiled or something. < 1086366008 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1086366044 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm probably never be one, since there are those bandwidth-monsters.. < 1086366053 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i'll < 1086366118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, well, as you can see in http://gehennom.org/mrtg/vr0.php I don't really use this much. < 1086366174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in the 'yearly' graph one can clearly see when I moved in. (beginning of september.) < 1086366188 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1086366369 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, know any good, lite, ASCII text editor? < 1086366396 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, vim, but it's not too light any more. < 1086366416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on your definition of 'light' of course. < 1086366426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's no emacs, if you catch my drift. :p < 1086366438 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see :) < 1086366441 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard of that < 1086366469 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed < 1086366494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed's a bit.. too minimalistic for my tastes. < 1086366521 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nano < 1086366539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nano might be good, but it's not a vi-clone. < 1086366592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know the name EMACS comes from 'Eventually malloc()s All Computer Storage'? < 1086366621 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1086366654 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, lang's been surprisingly active lately. < 1086366682 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lang? < 1086366723 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Computer" seems rather redundant there; I suggest "Connected" < 1086366736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esoteric.sange.fi email list. < 1086366753 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah email list.. < 1086366762 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad i'm not on any.. < 1086366764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another version I've heard was 'Eight Megs And Continuously Swapping', but these days 8M of memory is ~nothing. < 1086366788 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :( < 1086366856 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, there's some brainfuck archive on that site *drool* < 1086366865 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't noticed it before :) < 1086366877 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or at least can't remember) < 1086366971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gotten >50 "undeliverable mail; returning to sender" spam emails during the last couple of hours. < 1086366993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this the national "let's forge fizzie's email address as the sender of spam" day or what? < 1086367013 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm too bad :( < 1086367018 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam's really annoying < 1086367101 0 :tav!~tavino@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086367314 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow! how this: http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/bf-source/prog/PI16.BF can be even possible? *confused* < 1086367337 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some really good bf codes out there.. < 1086367579 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoaly .. :O < 1086367634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to see a brainf*ck pi calculator that worked the same way as the one ioccc entry. < 1086367721 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'oh, i'll be away some minutes, there's icecream available < 1086367751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this http://www.ioccc.org/1988/westley.c one < 1086367760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if you want more digits, write a bigger program." < 1086368467 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1086368472 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very confusing :) < 1086368546 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1086368547 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1086372287 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086372294 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew.. < 1086372469 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, i have something wrong in my bf code.. < 1086372776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something in your bf code made you do 'Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)' and stay away from irc an hour? < 1086372786 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1086372793 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my lousy internet connection < 1086372800 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i told, this is really annoying < 1086372815 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or ok, i didn't say "it's annoying" but..) < 1086372829 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every 5 min i tried to come back, but no success < 1086372869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a terminal in my bathroom, I think. < 1086372889 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1086372970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the bluetooth thing has enough range. I could use my phone as a terminal if it does. < 1086372979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just thinking." < 1086373007 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good plan :) < 1086373040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also wonder if the psion-linux kernel loader could be made to work on said phone. < 1086373060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, though. < 1086374636 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, how or can i contribute some bf files to that 'http://esoteric.sange.fi/' archive, sometime (or is it possible)? < 1086374674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To submit new programs, email pkalliok@helsinki.fi." < 1086374687 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1086374696 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must be blind.. < 1086374809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the archivist used to visit ircnet, too, but he either stopped or changed nicks. < 1086374844 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1086375074 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phones suck. < 1086375115 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1086375313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another good reason to try running linux on it - I doubt it'd much work as a phone then. < 1086375566 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh.. i should rewrite some php code.. :( < 1086375803 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't. < 1086375894 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but... :( < 1086375919 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really should, because there's serious error with mysql database :) < 1086375956 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, serious means in this case that the script overwrites data it shouldn't and so on.. < 1086376005 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all caused by the fact i didn't know new entries go "up" in the table and not under older ones (or that's what i think is problem) < 1086384847 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, goodbye for this nite :) < 1086384850 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1086384928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"night." < 1086414303 0 :Dabomber!~witheld@S010600055dff44ae.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086414367 0 :Dabomber!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1086414485 0 :Dabomber!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1086422399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1086422400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086433329 0 :tav!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tav|offline < 1086449037 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086449051 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiya < 1086449087 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my legs hurt, i've been standing and walking all the day.. < 1086449719 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Keymaker|eat < 1086451421 0 :Keymaker|eat!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Keymaker < 1086454046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m'hi. < 1086454224 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086454241 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc been around? < 1086454278 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1086454282 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1086454312 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if I'm still actively ircing by the time you manage to catch him. < 1086454373 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1086454380 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'actively' < 1086454422 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, it can be he reads the logs and checks the times carefully; so that he can idle safely many hours and get out just before i join channel.. < 1086454490 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, well.. I fail to see how anyone can deduce from the logs when you will appear. the other way it'd work; maybe _you_ are reading the logs and only join after he has left. < 1086454521 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right < 1086454653 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just small opinion: do you think program should ask 'are you sure you want to ..' things or just do something, or should there be something where user can set it to ask or deactive the feature? < 1086454818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, generally speaking everything should be configurable. < 1086454822 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1086455005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt the 'are you sure you want to' dialogs even help much, if you're decided enough to screw up you'll manage to do that even if you have to click through dozens of warnings. < 1086455047 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've noticed that pretty well :) < 1086455098 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*delete all the files?* *ok* *still want to delete them?* *yes* darn! :( < 1086456168 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaargh, it's sauna, bye for a while.. < 1086457664 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1086463016 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Keymaker|movie < 1086467392 0 :Keymaker[-]!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086467419 0 :Keymaker[-]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Keymaker < 1086467904 0 :Keymaker|movie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1086473750 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, byes < 1086473750 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1086474053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye. < 1086508799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1086508800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086525317 0 :dbc!ttm@ts04-ip71.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086581756 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dbc < 1086581759 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where're the fractals? < 1086594024 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594024 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594026 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594026 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594028 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594029 0 :edwinb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594030 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594030 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594030 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594030 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594031 0 :grumpy_old_one!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594031 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594170 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594170 0 :dbc!ttm@ts04-ip71.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594170 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594170 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594170 0 :grumpy_old_one!~user@bohica.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594170 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594170 0 :kosmikus|away!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594170 0 :mooz-!~root@cs182082.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594170 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594170 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594170 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594170 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594170 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1086594198 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594198 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594198 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594198 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594252 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594252 0 :grumpy_old_one!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594253 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086594476 0 :mooz-!~root@cs182082.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594476 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594477 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594477 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594485 0 :edwinb!dcs3ecb@cs-186.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594488 0 :dbc!ttm@ts04-ip71.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594488 0 :grumpy_old_one!~user@bohica.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1086594488 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086595199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1086595200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086599580 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1086630488 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1086630493 0 :kosmikus|away!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1086631927 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086631936 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086631967 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc was here again < 1086631986 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-huh. < 1086631986 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive timing indeed. < 1086632010 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrrr.. < 1086632013 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1086632024 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, well better luck next time < 1086632075 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:15:58 it's dbc < 1086632076 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:16:01 where're the fractals? < 1086632077 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1086637400 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek, gotta switch channel quickly! < 1086637402 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1086637403 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1086637494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, he left. I wonder if dbc's coming. < 1086637522 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same person < 1086642589 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086643422 0 :tav|offline!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tav < 1086644842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keymaker; hey, you didn't manage to miss dbc. < 1086645018 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :) < 1086645022 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, not this time < 1086645066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you had a feeling he might be coming and quitted because of that. < 1086645098 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1086645099 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1086645116 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i visited a commander keen channel where i use different name < 1086645209 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, er, okay. < 1086645222 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1086645262 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that game? < 1086645276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1086645293 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have a "Keen1-6.zip" somewhere on my hd. < 1086645298 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't played them lately though. < 1086645327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think I could read the galactic alphabet now. < 1086645374 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1086645387 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should try again :) < 1086645416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've forgotten all funny secrets. I vaguely remember that in that one place in keen4 you needed to gather all the silly worms to one place to get to the secret pyramid. < 1086645519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in was-it-keen1-or-what there were all those semi-invisible tiles. < 1086645523 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe "11 inch makes a foot" and your way to the Pyramid of Forbidden < 1086645531 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1086645537 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in keen 1 for example < 1086645570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't illegally-copy keen 2, 3 and 5 until much later than I played 1 and 4. < 1086645640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keen dreams wasn't really much fun. < 1086645654 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, many don't like keen dreams that much < 1086645662 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's many annoying bugs < 1086645675 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(meaning programming errors) < 1086645721 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to quote a userfriendly comic but you can't grep for the stuff in those unfortunately. < 1086645757 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad :( < 1086645936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't feel like reading through the userfriendly archives. :p < 1086646072 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1086646094 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, you can grep those. < 1086646106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20000316 < 1086646116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know what reminded me of that. < 1086646189 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1086646362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if I should just sleep, I don't think I'll be getting anything done today. < 1086646598 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you have more than 23 hours to sleep :) < 1086646636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean 'logical today'. < 1086646690 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see :) < 1086646707 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i suggest sleeping, i don't have even tried to do anything useful this nite < 1086646723 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today is my birthday, by the way :) < 1086646735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logical or physical today? < 1086646745 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8th june < 1086646805 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'd say "happy birthday", if I hadn't just declared this to be 7th still. < 1086646819 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1086647026 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1086647027 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1086647048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. < 1086649871 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1086651379 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1086655156 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086655156 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086655652 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1086655652 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086655652 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1086658276 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1086662984 0 :tav!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1086663042 0 :andreou!~captor@ppp5.ee.teiath.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1086664690 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"If it doesn't have 36 bits, you're not playing with a full DEC." < 1086670332 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1086670355 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be a good instruction set for a 4-bit computer? (with 16 memory addresses) < 1086681599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1086681600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086683063 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"substract and branch if negative" < 1086683073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all. < 1086683125 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know. 16 memory addresses sounds awfully limited, so maybe you should add a "DWIM" instruction to make it possible to actually do stuff. < 1086690530 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1086690906 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086690906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086690906 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086690906 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086691078 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086691078 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086691081 0 :grumpy_old_one!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086691081 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086691083 0 :edwinb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086691084 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086691084 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086691120 0 :mooz-!~root@cs182082.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691120 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691120 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691120 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691398 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691398 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691398 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1086691501 0 :kosmikus!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691501 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691501 0 :grumpy_old_one!~user@bohica.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691501 0 :edwinb!dcs3ecb@cs-186.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691501 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691694 0 :grumpy_old_one!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086691694 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086691695 0 :edwinb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086691697 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086691697 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086691827 0 :grumpy_old_one!~user@bohica.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691827 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691831 0 :edwinb!dcs3ecb@cs-186.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691877 0 :kosmikus!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1086691877 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086718200 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as07-pho-az-205-186-110-128.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086718209 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086722248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi. < 1086723424 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1086729222 0 :calamari-!JeffryJohn@as10-pho-az-205-186-113-134.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086729320 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1086730053 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1086745290 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086745290 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086749798 0 :kosmikus|away!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1086749798 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086767999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1086768000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086772914 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1086800576 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as02-pho-az-205-186-105-160.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086800581 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1086800903 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello. how goes the brainf*ck-c? < 1086804655 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't worked on it much.. been job hunting :( < 1086804672 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had a chance to mess around this morning < 1086804711 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pondering whether I should really do c, or just a c-type language so that I don't have to worry about ansi < 1086805275 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta clear the phone line..bbl < 1086805278 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1086810273 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1086821061 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is brainfuck so damn cool. < 1086821109 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's beautifully symmetrical < 1086821144 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a regular crystal structure < 1086821146 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1086821173 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of this "subtract and jump if negative" < 1086821213 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a language with two instructions. < 1086821222 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"subtract and jump if negative" and "add and jump if positive" < 1086821254 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to remember a one-instruction one < 1086821264 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if I succeeded < 1086821270 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have. < 1086821287 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see what you meant < 1086821295 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What brainfuck needs is a better macro system. < 1086821312 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there're several, but everybody insists on writing their own. < 1086821318 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's what programmers need < 1086821377 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. < 1086821396 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you subscribed to friends-of-brainfuck? < 1086821423 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1086821432 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mainly get spam, though < 1086821457 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they ever discuss anything worthwile? < 1086821586 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's become more relevant recently < 1086821610 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm especially interested in optimizing compilation. < 1086821665 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (Personally I've made a < 1086821665 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> practice of not using negative numbers at all. They're never < 1086821665 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> necessary.) < 1086821665 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well, I'd wish you to write the next version of the accounting < 1086821665 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :software my bank uses for my giro account :-) < 1086821738 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what the current state of the art is wrt optimizing bf compilers :( < 1086821939 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :215723Z #esp http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~sdh300/stuffage/bf.net/ < 1086821939 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :215725Z #esp Title: BrainFuck.Net (at www.ecs.soton.ac.uk) < 1086821939 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :215733Z #esp best bit: [[[ < 1086821939 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :215733Z #esp # Does BrainFuck.Net use the controversial Microsoft Passport system for authentication? < 1086821939 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :215733Z #esp No. The Brainfuck language has only 8 commands, and none of them are related to authentica < 1086821940 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ting remote network users. < 1086821942 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :215734Z #esp ]]] < 1086822043 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :220014Z #esp hello #esoteric < 1086822194 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the guy who wrote that. < 1086822218 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not IRL but in another, totally unrelated online community. < 1086822260 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's #esp? < 1086824980 0 :Toreun!upaml@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086854399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1086854400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086855598 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1086856683 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086856683 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086856823 0 :kosmikus!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1086863939 0 :trman!~tony@199.224.33.65.cfl.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086864062 0 :trman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1086881337 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086889064 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as02-pho-az-205-186-105-99.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086889067 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086889080 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086898519 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know what's cool? < 1086898531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ice! < 1086898534 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1086898559 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the non-turing-completeness of systems with finite memory makes it possible to prove whether a program halts in that system. < 1086898572 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's cool? < 1086898590 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cool because at least Brainfuck does prescribe limited memory. < 1086898626 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taaus: I can play the C# minor fugue from WTC book I! < 1086898636 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so have you made a program that tests/proves halting/non-halting for an arbitrary BF program? < 1086898648 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1086898653 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a naive one would be trivial to implement < 1086898668 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, c# is a lot of fun. How many voices is it? < 1086898671 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would also require a fucking big computer < 1086898672 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :five < 1086898679 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's what I thought. < 1086898682 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :five voices and three subjects < 1086898694 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/subjects/themes < 1086898706 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty unique in that respect. Like the two-voice e-minor fugue. < 1086898709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that really on-topic? I didn't think c# was an especially esoteric language. < 1086898710 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't say i understand it, but at least i can play it. < 1086898724 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taaus: the Bb-minor one is also five-part < 1086898729 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can play it as well < 1086898735 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only has one subject though. < 1086898763 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and there's another triple fugue in book II) < 1086898783 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know c# isn't the only 5-part fugue, but the vast majority in WTC I+II are 3- and 4-parters :) < 1086898796 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTC II is boring. It only has 3 and 4. < 1086898819 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# minor is probably the most complex one in the entire WTC, structurally. < 1086898886 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for brainfuck < 1086898901 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just execute the program < 1086898911 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keeping track of all memory states that occured. < 1086898924 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a memory states repeats, you're done - the program won't halt. < 1086898928 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*state < 1086898944 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there's only a finite number of memory states, you'll be done eventually. < 1086898946 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... In theory, it's trivial... :P < 1086898962 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just 64000^256. Lovely. < 1086898972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the pointer position. < 1086898972 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64000? not really < 1086898982 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't mueller specify 4000? < 1086898995 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that. < 1086898996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64k is pretty popular though. < 1086899002 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He did? My bad. < 1086899003 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, it's still a big number. < 1086899020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfvga is a funny toy. too bad it's awfully hard to do anything pretty with it. < 1086899047 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it would be interesting to try to prove haltingness of at least some programs that halt. < 1086899057 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can compile them into a singe statement. < 1086899119 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(naturally this doesn't apply to programs which use ,) < 1086899166 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a reasonable, if not always valid, assumption for a compiler to make, that a program containing a ',' will not halt. < 1086899195 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, you could figure out how long (runtime-wise) the longest running halting program runs, then run all programs for that long. < 1086899212 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes... "," is bothersome. < 1086899228 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the longest running halting program... < 1086899232 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have to visit all states < 1086899261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie needs to depart for an evening walk out there. is away. < 1086899305 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe, true... So actually, you can just run the program for memory * cell_size^memory, and see if it's halted. < 1086899313 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1086899335 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long would that take? :) < 1086899341 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you don't need a computer with heaps of memory, just lots of patienec. < 1086899350 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. It's a better approach. < 1086899354 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Constant time! :D < 1086899427 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this "halt"? +[++] < 1086899429 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just 1e768 different states for 4000-byte memory < 1086899457 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: depends on the semantics of our machine. Those would of course have to be agreed upon. < 1086899463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is brainf*ck's cell-size defined? < 1086899503 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's usually taken to be either 8 bit, or infinite. Of course, 'infinite' won't work here. < 1086899503 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make a version that alternates between say, 1 and 2 that still wouldn't exit < 1086899524 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: yes, but then it would be immediately seen that it repeats the memory state < 1086899532 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic < 1086899575 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the naive halting proofer will prove that in reasonable time < 1086899580 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. almost instantly) < 1086899762 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: where is the bfvga that you spoke of earlier? < 1086900000 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have once written a graphics extension for befunge. < 1086900008 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but never wrote a single program for it :( < 1086900237 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What techniques could be used to prove the haltingness of at least some programs that halt? < 1086900240 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was able to use ansi to extend bf a little, but that still managed to be standard bf < 1086900245 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly a program without loops will halt. < 1086900280 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :halt = exit? < 1086900284 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1086900285 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1086900305 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a program that only has balanced loops will probably halt as well. < 1086900367 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er. < 1086900374 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balanced loops? < 1086900375 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1086900379 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just balanced. < 1086900393 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm talking about loops that move numbers from one cell to another. < 1086900426 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the loop has to decrement the starting cell and always end on the same cell it started on. < 1086900432 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. [->+>+<<] < 1086900452 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[->+<+] clearly won't terminate. < 1086900460 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sucks. < 1086900524 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: *[ ... *-] or *[- ... *] < 1086900532 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(* = same memory cell) < 1086900546 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not counting nested loops at the ... of course < 1086900549 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: [->+<+] is a [- ...] < 1086900566 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is [->+] < 1086900573 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes, specific case of it < 1086900584 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: those loops don't halt. < 1086900614 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: wait a sec, I thought you repeated yourself < 1086900632 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: those don't fit the description of * = same memory cell < 1086900646 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: [->+<+] does. < 1086900678 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, wrapping notwithstanding, can a [...+] loop terminate? Surely the cell is always non-zero due to the "+". < 1086900684 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. good point.. however -+ really isn't - < 1086900700 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taaus: correct. < 1086900713 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are negative numbers allowed? < 1086900746 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... That depends on what semantics we choose :) < 1086900750 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so [->+<+] is [>+<] and that doesn't fitthe pattern < 1086900751 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deltab: not usually. < 1086900777 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favourite semantics is < 1086900785 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-bit unsigned cells < 1086900792 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite memory space < 1086900800 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going left of the origin crashes < 1086900812 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :overflow and underflow crashes < 1086900841 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: if you have infinit memory space what do you do about something like +[>+] ? < 1086900880 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: what do you mean "what do you do"? < 1086900891 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: as taaus said, it's a loop that ends with a +. < 1086900902 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't halt. < 1086900940 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: what about [-]- < 1086900954 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind < 1086900993 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to subscribe to my favourite semantics, though. < 1086901003 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people prefer to have wraparound instead of overflow/underflow < 1086901008 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so it seems. < 1086901009 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, ending with a plus doesn't matter, it's the combined effect of the cell, right? .. for example +[>++-] < 1086901015 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, [->++-] matches [...-] < 1086901021 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, heh. :) < 1086901023 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GMTA. < 1086901039 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because matching [...-] is silly. < 1086901055 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: right, I just wanted to emphasize that :) < 1086901063 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any sequence of <>+- can be converted to a "normal form" < 1086901075 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is trivial to do and should be done prior to examining the program. < 1086901182 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(existing optimizing compilers do it) < 1086901189 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hopefully) < 1086901195 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1086901280 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they don't :( < 1086901298 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they do to an extent < 1086901303 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[[>]<] < 1086901321 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, nested loops. We haven't even begun to worry about those yet! < 1086901330 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor about unbalanced loops < 1086901396 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1086901414 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler bfc by Panu does it.- < 1086901420 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of. < 1086901433 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At which point do we realise the futility of this endeavour? < 1086901462 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taaus: when we read that it's impossible to solve the halting problem? < 1086901488 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfc optimizes this [+>-<-] to this: < 1086901501 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(;a[p];p+=0){a[p+0]+=0;a[p+1]+=-1;} < 1086901510 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... It depends on the semantics... We proved earlier that Urban's original BF is halting-decidable. < 1086901531 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taaus: that was with a finite memory space < 1086901537 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1086901546 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: obviously you can't do it with infinite memory space. < 1086901549 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, semantics :) < 1086901564 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: " infinite memory space" < 1086901575 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: that's just my favourite semantics. < 1086901593 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What we're looking at now is better heuristics to check for halting-ness. Even though complete decidability is impossible :) < 1086901603 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with finite space +[>+] this eventually exits < 1086901616 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming cell wraparound) < 1086901640 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and the halting prover would happily prove it. < 1086901652 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about better ways to optimize bf code -> bf code < 1086901674 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot harder than optimizing compilation to c < 1086901728 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the aforementioned "converting -+<> sequences to their normal form" would be the first step. < 1086901739 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but thats simple stuff < 1086901772 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never heard of optimizing a language in that same language. < 1086901775 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has it ever been doen? < 1086901779 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*done < 1086901793 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatic refactoring or something?.. < 1086902084 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps going to a higher level language and back again to bf? < 1086902106 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Converting -+<> sequences to normal form (preferrably to shortest form) isn't trivial either < 1086902110 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so it seems < 1086902118 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try doing it in BF: P < 1086902134 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, that doesn't seem very promising either, because higher level languages have other baggage problems < 1086902188 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: aren't you talking about figuring out that +--++ is the same as + ? < 1086902208 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's part of it. < 1086902386 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the higher level form above, I get [+>-<-] => [>-<].. however if there were nested loops, that might not work right < 1086902448 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested loops clearly aren't parts of -+<> sequences. < 1086902452 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lunch. < 1086906059 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm. < 1086906072 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding the 'normal form' isn't all that trivial. < 1086906081 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's annoyingly annoying < 1086906284 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me 53 lines of Python code! < 1086906290 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> normal('+>+<-') < 1086906291 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'>+<' < 1086906293 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woohoo < 1086906373 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it give for >>+>>++<-<-<-<- < 1086906402 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'>>>>++<-<<-<-' < 1086906446 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try >>+>>++<-<-<-<->>>> < 1086906456 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'->->>->++' :) < 1086906490 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it returns the provably shortest path, although i'm certainly not going to prove that. < 1086906491 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1086906821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfvga is a proggie which maps the vga 320x200x256 mode display memory as a 64k brainf*ck array. I think it was in scene.org somewhere. < 1086906887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=5060 I think. < 1086907711 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like the comments in that thread. < 1086907744 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they are sceners. < 1086907749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not esoteric-language-people. < 1086907915 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes them wrong! < 1086907919 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my program doesn't quite work :( < 1086907961 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i applied it to the BF mandelbrot generator and it didn't change anything at all. < 1086908494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re bfvga, I tried the analogous befvga, the befunge version of that, with a 320x200 playfield and the playfield positions mapped to the screen. < 1086908506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't any more fun than bfvga though. < 1086908760 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh actually < 1086908783 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my program does make the mandelbrot generator 30 characters shorter :) < 1086908798 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11421 vs. 11451 < 1086908888 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also does a lot of funky rearrangement of questionable quality < 1086908894 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, it converts this: < 1086908900 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[->++>>>+++++>++>+<<<<<<] < 1086908902 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into this: < 1086908908 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[>>>>>>+<++<+++++<<<++<-] < 1086908928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should make it not apply the modifications if they are not shorter. < 1086908982 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this: < 1086908989 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[->+<] < 1086908990 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into this: < 1086908993 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[>+<-] < 1086909017 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1086909058 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then the original idea was to convert everything to a "normal form" that would make it easier to process by other tools. < 1086909100 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that task is probably not compatible with that of always writing the _shortest_ version. < 1086909629 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1086913343 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god. < 1086913378 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Normalizer decreases the size of wib from 6287 to 6097 instructions. < 1086913407 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 3%! < 1086913419 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if it still works afterwards... :) < 1086913636 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly people don't bother about optimizing their Brainfuck code at all! < 1086913708 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and there has to be a way to normalize things containing ., and not just +-<> < 1086913733 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not... < 1086913793 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>>>.<<<<<+>+>+>+>+> clearly should be +>+>+>+>+>. < 1086913813 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my normalizer would not touch it. < 1086913854 0 :andreou!~captor@195.130.98.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1086914030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, isn't it enough to gather all the +s and -s affecting the cell you're .ing or ,ing from/to and make sure those happen in order. not sure how your "normal form" is specified though. < 1086914053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-oh, it's already past 02:30 here, I think I'll sleep some. < 1086917883 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one hour later, same situation < 1086917884 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"If it doesn't have 36 bits, you're not playing with a full DEC." < 1086921771 0 :andreou!~captor@ppp5.ee.teiath.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1086926093 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as11-pho-az-205-186-114-224.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086926096 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086927296 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'evening < 1086927414 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086927416 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about the c compiler.. a valid way to do it is c -> asm, then asm -> binary (bf). That would actually be pretty neat, because then the c compiler doesn't have to worry about many details < 1086927445 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1086927449 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even asm->basic? :) < 1086927452 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basic->brainfuck < 1086927459 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's disgustingly complex < 1086927460 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it < 1086927481 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1086927542 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfbasic could be rewritten to support the asm, removing a lot of the limitations < 1086927579 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will certainly be quite neat. < 1086927714 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about 32-bit cells.. it would take a lot of work and bloat the code if 32-bit cells had to be emulated with four 8-bit cells. < 1086927795 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the bf interpreter/compiler will probably need to be 32-bit < 1086927886 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine. < 1086927996 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaict signed and unsigned math is pretty much the same (except when reporting overflow situations), but comparisons don't work the same way < 1086928205 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any suggestions on how to do a signed compare of > or -3 is the same as 6>5 in a 3-bit mode) < 1086934716 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1086940799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1086940800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1086946502 0 :andreou!~captor@195.130.98.222 JOIN :#esoteric < 1086946850 0 :captor!~captor@ppp7.ee.teiath.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1086948042 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1086948555 0 :captor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1086963481 0 :grumpy_old_one!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086963481 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086963483 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086963486 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086963486 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086963487 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086963488 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086963488 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086963489 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086963489 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086963489 0 :edwinb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086963527 0 :grumpy_old_one!~user@bohica.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1086963527 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086963535 0 :edwinb!dcs3ecb@cs-186.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1086963554 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1086963554 0 :kosmikus!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1086963554 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086963554 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1086963584 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086963584 0 :mooz-!~root@cs182082.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086963584 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1086963584 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086963584 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086972606 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as08-pho-az-205-186-111-53.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086972617 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086976085 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1086976930 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimizing BF .,<>+- sequences is tough. < 1086976940 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to figure out a nice way to do it. < 1086976984 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, >+<.>,<- should be optimized to .->, < 1086977067 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally, the optimizer should be written in brainfuck. < 1086977269 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1086977288 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just convert it to bf when you're done :) < 1086977303 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, you've already written your c->BF compiler? :) < 1086977325 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope.. working on the assembler. it's going slow, though, because I' < 1086977337 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m only using if's, labels, and gotos < 1086977351 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for easy translation of the assembler to bfasm :) < 1086977354 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you do IO? < 1086977362 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assembly programs call the kernel for that. < 1086977366 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll be emulating the kernel? < 1086977389 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? there are two asm instructions in_ and out, for that < 1086977423 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1086977431 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these instructions are actually produced by GCC? < 1086977436 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1086977436 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when compiling a printf? < 1086977439 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there :) < 1086977446 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not using gcc < 1086977449 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1086977451 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you using? < 1086977464 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the asm compiler would be not very interesting if you wouldn't be able to use it to compile C to BF < 1086977505 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc isn't the only way to compile c to asm.. I was writing my own c compiler < 1086977520 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1086977531 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized that if I wrote an assembler, the c compiler would be a lot easier to do < 1086977615 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, gcc doesn't really put much code at all for a printf.. it pushes the operands and calls printf < 1086977638 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf can do whatever you want.. that's handled during linking < 1086977758 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, I gave up trying to figure out the gcc backend. I'm sure there is documentation somewhere on how to do it, but I couldn't find any that I understood < 1086979697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, was writing my own '.,<>+-'-sequence-optimizer but managed to forget that ">,<." cannot be optimized to ".," really. < 1086979784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, I obviously mean ".>," < 1086979841 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no! let me write it!! :) < 1086979927 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm not entirely sure how to do it. < 1086980005 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it has to be able to optimize ++++++, to , < 1086980069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than the IO-in-order problem I think a relatively clean way is to gather the strings of operations applied to every cell to an array, then optimize those and recreate a suitable >[ops]>[ops]-like thing. but that would happily transform >,<. to .>, < 1086980107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"optimize those" would mean at least "remove all +-s before a ," and "combine all series of +-s" < 1086980177 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you writing it in? < 1086980250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I wrote few lines (80) in C but I'm not sure whether I want to think about the IO ordering. maybe I'll indeed let you write it. < 1086980331 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1086980362 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my 72-line python program optimizes +-<> sequences. < 1086980377 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll probably have to rewrite it from scratch though :| < 1086980444 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, it should be written in Brainfuck. < 1086980450 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The trick is to find a good algorithm. < 1086980708 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, bfasm parses the instructions and operands.. now to do the hard work of generating bf code < 1086981017 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, i think i came up with an algorithm. < 1086981051 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementing should be trivial now. < 1086981095 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost easier than my original implementation. < 1086983061 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is stumped < 1086983064 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<+>>+< < 1086983110 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correction < 1086983114 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<+>>>+<< < 1086983129 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>+<<<+> < 1086983130 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1086983132 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wicked. < 1086985012 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woohoo! < 1086985014 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i wrote it < 1086985025 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show us the source! < 1086985027 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1086985031 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i haven't :) < 1086985147 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i think i have now. < 1086985164 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you give me some +-,.<> sequences to optimize? :) < 1086985202 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah more bugs < 1086985255 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1086985277 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it optimise ">>>>,<<"? < 1086985299 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't optimize that. < 1086985312 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,+[-.,+] < 1086985405 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm cool, if eof=0 then it's ,[.,] < 1086985441 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never thought of that before.. dunno why :) < 1086985445 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now it's definitely done < 1086985524 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me sequences! :) < 1086985541 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck. < 1086985554 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<++++++++++++ < 1086985555 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. < 1086985560 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1086985579 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. < 1086985593 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be able to do anything with that < 1086985895 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me better sequences < 1086985900 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1086985907 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it stay the same? < 1086985975 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,,,,, < 1086985985 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1086985991 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually < 1086986017 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. blah. < 1086986023 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of them got any shorter. < 1086986030 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1086986046 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1086986053 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just accidentally deleted the source. < 1086986059 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) < 1086986112 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1086986126 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope you're using fat/fat32 .. undelete :) < 1086986160 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext2 < 1086986200 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1086986205 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had vim open in another window < 1086986214 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that file < 1086986247 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's safe. < 1086986543 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++.--- < 1086986582 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-+.-+- < 1086986599 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more bugs though :| < 1086986701 0 :calamari-!JeffryJohn@as12-pho-az-205-186-115-156.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1086987253 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this needs a rewrite anyway. < 1086987784 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1086987787 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think _now_ i did it. < 1086987829 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much simpler now too. < 1086987885 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also broken. < 1086987887 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1086987925 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap. < 1086987946 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap, crap. < 1086988095 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap. < 1086988537 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1086988543 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it better work now!!! < 1086988568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a nice ook-like bf "variant": crap! "crap. crap. crap? crap! crap! crap?" < 1086988642 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1086988658 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm _sure_ i got it working now. < 1086988659 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : :) < 1086988734 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and i'm still wrong :( < 1086988793 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate programming. < 1086988809 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: do you have bfbasic? I'd be curious to know what your program does with some of the compiled examples < 1086988818 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I can dcc < 1086988836 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, nm.. it can't do [] yet < 1086988972 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl.. work < 1086988973 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1086991085 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::[ < 1086991667 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graah < 1086991673 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought i have a bug < 1086991678 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually i don't < 1086991692 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the humiliation. < 1086991696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bug for you, lament! < 1086991706 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, now i'm _damn sure_ i'm done :) < 1086991717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like the last N times? < 1086991729 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1086991732 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those times, the bugs were real. < 1086991743 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me a sequence! :) < 1086991817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well uh I haven't written much befunge, and this hw2.bf (t-106.231 course homework) doesn't seem to have any long sequences to optimize. < 1086991837 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a brainfuck, not befunge, optimizer < 1086991856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hw2.bf is brainf*ck. < 1086991860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use .bef for befunge. < 1086991869 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:10 well uh I haven't written much befunge, < 1086991881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that just means my brain is misfired. < 1086991884 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does hw2.bf do? < 1086991891 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miswired. gah. < 1086991912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :converts ascii-binary to ascii-decimal, I think. something like that anyway. < 1086991933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it converts ascii-binary to "real binary" (single brainf*ck cell) and then prints that as decimal. < 1086991938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a short four-line ditty. < 1086991962 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste it! < 1086991996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very nice brainf*ck, I think. < 1086992001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[>,----------[>++++++[<------>-]<-->>[->++<]>[-<+>]<<<[>>+<<[-]]<+>]<-]>>> < 1086992002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>++++++++++>+<<<<[>>>>>+[->>+>+<[<<+>>-]<<[>+>+<<-]++++++++++>[<->-]<[[-]>>+++ < 1086992006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++++++>>-<<<<]>>---------->>+]+[-<<[<<+>>-]<<[>+>+<<-]>----------[<+>[+]]<]<-]> < 1086992009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>->>>>[>>>>]<<<<[<<++++++[>++++++++<-]>.<<<]++++++++++. < 1086992010 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus that might be the buggy version too. < 1086992023 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the printer didn't like '0's. < 1086992049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a non-buggy version too, but I'm not quite sure where. < 1086992114 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first line is the 'read ascii binary' line, last three are an ugly "print as decimal" routine. < 1086992155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses lots of cells too, something like 3*decimal-digits or 4*decimal-digits of the number. < 1086992214 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, you're right. < 1086992228 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the optimizer does nothing of interest. < 1086992248 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from rearranging the code to its liking. < 1086992275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, I see no reason to write unoptimized ><+-,. sequences when writing code manually. :p < 1086992388 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it accidentally. < 1086992408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no reason to make mistakes. < 1086992478 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1086992489 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1086992501 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compared to my +-<> optimizer, this thing is almost useless. < 1086992535 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib.b (the brainfuck->c compiler) is 6288 instructions. < 1086992555 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimized +-<> it's 6098 instructions. < 1086992566 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimized +-<>,. it's 6092. < 1086992622 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be interesting to try it on calamari's generated code, though. < 1086993141 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1086993145 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's surprisingly efficient. < 1086993150 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(calamari's bfbasic) < 1086993236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next optimize .,<>+-[] strings. < 1086993266 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1086993267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to provably shortest possible equivalent code. < 1086993279 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::))) < 1086993280 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1086993292 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, there's just the simple matter of that being impossible. < 1086993300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuses. < 1086993307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just write some python code to do it. < 1086993317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear python makes the impossible possible. < 1086993406 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1086993656 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1086993665 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimizing -+,.<>[] is of course impossible. < 1086993671 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about -+,.<>[ ? :) < 1086993978 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1086994034 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the optimized version of 99 bottles produces _longer_ binary when compiled with bfc < 1086994096 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although the C code is of equal size for both) < 1086995231 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086995231 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086995231 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086995231 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086995233 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086995234 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086995235 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086995235 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086995260 0 :edwinb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1086995265 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1086995265 0 :edwinb!dcs3ecb@cs-186.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1086995265 0 :kosmikus|away!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1086995265 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086995265 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086995265 0 :mooz-!~root@cs182082.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086995265 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1086995265 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1086995265 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1086995265 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1086996956 0 :Toreun!cskqsz@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087002170 0 :grumpy_old_one!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ERC Version 4.0 $Revision: 1.600 $ (IRC client for Emacs)" < 1087009395 0 :sanxiyn!tinuviel@dor22235.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1087009449 0 :sanxiyn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, my friend implemented rule 30 random number generator in Befunge. < 1087009450 0 :sanxiyn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dev.tokigun.net/funge/rule30.bf < 1087012048 0 :sanxiyn!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1087027199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1087027200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1087031673 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1087031680 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1087031718 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long time no see(?) < 1087031878 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morn. < 1087031938 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1087032194 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egh, still sleepy. < 1087032519 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1087032539 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, there's breakfast >:( < 1087033270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho-hum. I was trying to download windows drivers for this bluetooth adapter and now it requires me to confirm that "Neither I or the intended user of this product is involved, directly or indirectly, in any of the following, nor will this product be used directly or indirectly in any of these applications: < 1087033275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) Research, design, development, construction, fabrication, testing or operation of nuclear facilities or nuclear weapons. < 1087033278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) Research, design, development, production or use of rocket systems, space launch vehicles, sounding rockets, missles, drones, or unmanned air vehicle systems. < 1087033281 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3) Research, design, development, production, use or stockpiling of chemical or biological weapons or precursor chemicals or agents." < 1087033292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yes, I will construct nuclear weapons with your bluetooth adapter MWAH MWAH MWAH HAA!" < 1087033451 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL :D < 1087033470 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that true? < 1087033488 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I will construct nuclear weapons with it? not really. < 1087033496 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant that text < 1087033505 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really had to confirm that? :) < 1087033590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy-pasted straight from the device download page. go see for yourself, select 'support / download drivers' or somesuch from the web page, then write "3CREB96B" to the quick search box there and try to download bub1_2_10en.exe, the first thing it will ask is that confirmation. < 1087033822 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, very strange :) < 1087034198 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a lot of stuff here at hut would fall under those categories. we probably do rocket system research, and there's that small research nuclear reactor here. < 1087034198 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1087035966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, perl 'map' and single-line-foreach both use '$_' so I can't combine them well. < 1087035977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted a more unreadable version of this. < 1087036138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :($n = $_, print "entry: " . join(", ", map { "$_ -> " . $n->{$_} } keys %{$n}) . "\n") foreach @entries; < 1087036142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty perl. < 1087036529 0 :grumpy_old_one!~user@bohica.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1087042741 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1087042920 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, time to read some logs.. < 1087042996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much has happened though. < 1087043102 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i see < 1087043189 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on this log http://meme.b9.com/clog/esoteric/04.06.11 < 1087043207 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around ~14 everyone leaves and joins? < 1087043260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode had a split? < 1087043276 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no idea < 1087043296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2004-06-11 16:13:27] -!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: clog, Toreun, lament, @ChanServ, kosmikus, mtve, grumpy_old_one, edwinb < 1087043299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2004-06-11 16:13:49] -!- Netsplit over, joins: edwinb < 1087043302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2004-06-11 16:14:01] -!- Netsplit over, joins: @ChanServ, kosmikus, mtve < 1087043304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2004-06-11 16:14:25] -!- Netsplit over, joins: grumpy_old_one, lament, Toreun, clog < 1087043335 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1087043630 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been doing anything useful today fizzie? < 1087043786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh-ehehe. < 1087043792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sure, lots." < 1087043856 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1087043872 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should soon try doing something.. < 1087043881 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"or die trying" < 1087046060 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll visit some local market, bye for a while < 1087046070 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Keymaker|store < 1087046298 0 :Keymaker|store!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Keymaker < 1087046300 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh now < 1087046317 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pouring rain! i'll have to wait.. < 1087047486 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i'll check one other channel.. < 1087047488 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1087047684 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1087049087 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now there's my change, to store!bye < 1087051363 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm back < 1087055042 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to go :( < 1087055043 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1087057677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rainy. < 1087069281 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1087069331 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi. optimized any brainf*ck lately? < 1087069337 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1087069361 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's gotta be some content-inference scheme for brainfuck. < 1087069381 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. being able to prove that at a certain point during execution, the value in this cell will be X. < 1087069389 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, perhaps, not X. < 1087069413 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also being able to prove that a loop like [...>] will stop after reaching at most cell Y. < 1087069434 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing that will certainly allow nice optimizations. < 1087069446 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not brainfuck->brainfuck optimizations, but brainfuck->C) < 1087070401 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1087070597 0 :Toreun!mpzca@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087076298 0 :grumpy_old_one!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1087078245 0 :Toreu1!ozdg@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087078245 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1087078251 0 :Toreu1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Toreun < 1087108316 0 :heatsink!cirodrig@adsl-63-204-135-14.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087109152 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087113599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1087113600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1087124027 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1087124506 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087129173 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1087129194 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087134446 0 :grumpy_old_one!~user@bohica.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1087153835 0 :grumpy_old_one!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ERC Version 4.0 $Revision: 1.600 $ (IRC client for Emacs)" < 1087185771 0 :nop0x90!~nop@c-24-12-67-126.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087185801 0 :nop0x90!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1087199999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1087200000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1087235729 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087235731 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087235731 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087235957 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1087235957 0 :kosmikus|away!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1087235957 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1087235957 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1087246780 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as02-pho-az-205-186-105-54.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087248953 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087250761 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087250762 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087250762 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087250766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087250766 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087250766 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087250766 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087250766 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087250767 0 :edwinb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087250861 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1087250861 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1087250861 0 :kosmikus|away!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1087250861 0 :edwinb!dcs3ecb@cs-186.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1087250861 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1087250861 0 :mooz-!~root@cs182082.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1087250861 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1087250861 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1087250861 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1087250861 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1087283813 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graaar. < 1087286399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1087286400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1087287721 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1087289063 0 :edwin2!dcs3ecb@cs-186.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1087289116 0 :edwinb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1087290681 0 :edwin2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1087292721 0 :sanxiyn!~tinuviel@dor22235.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1087292732 0 :sanxiyn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://puzzlet.org/puzzlet/Funge~Interpreter < 1087292781 0 :sanxiyn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Table of Funge interpreters, from Korean Fungists wiki.) < 1087293471 0 :sanxiyn!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087293671 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as07-pho-az-205-186-110-177.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087293675 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1087293956 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for those wondering.. I have bfasm working with simple programs. Next I need to do arrays, then the stack, and finally put in text -> memory storage < 1087293975 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tired.. bbl < 1087293980 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087315118 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1087315123 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1087315127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello. < 1087315136 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi.. < 1087315192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been an exciting day. our cs department just closed all services and they'll stay offline to ~midnight. (no electricity.) < 1087315588 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo! < 1087315796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1087315845 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1087315928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go home. < 1087316041 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1087316058 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better hurry, it'll be dark in seven hours < 1087316143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm. < 1087316698 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm feeling really hungry, i'll go now for a while and get some noodles. < 1087320009 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1087320018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm-hmm. < 1087320026 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) home yet? < 1087320029 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1087320033 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1087320046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am thinking about replacing the linux distro in colin (my main linux box here) with gentoo. < 1087320079 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is 'distro in colin' and 'gentoo'? < 1087320089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colin is the name of the box. < 1087320094 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gentoo's www.gentoo.org. < 1087320137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to have enough disk space to backup my previous /etc, /usr and /var directories I probably need to burn random stuff on dvds. < 1087320170 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i see < 1087320365 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, log reading time again.. < 1087320500 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, haven't missed anything really important., < 1087320543 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1087320551 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of funge interpreters. < 1087320583 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do koreans have a funge wiki? < 1087320593 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't ask :) < 1087320617 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just did. < 1087320624 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1087321507 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, i think i'll leave < 1087321513 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simpsons-time :) < 1087321515 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1087322342 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as12-pho-az-205-186-115-73.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087323170 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087324576 0 :edwin2!dcs3ecb@cs-186.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1087325504 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1087333747 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as01-pho-az-205-186-104-248.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087334242 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1087335976 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unhi < 1087336766 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ununhi < 1087336872 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reunhi < 1087336873 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1087336877 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087349663 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1087352455 0 :Toreu1!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087352469 0 :Toreu1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Toreun < 1087371845 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1087372799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1087372800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1087397130 0 :edwin2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1087397158 0 :edwin2!dcs3ecb@cs-186.dur.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1087400907 0 :deltab_!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1087401149 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1087401156 0 :deltab_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :deltab < 1087407479 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1087409105 0 :edwin2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"[x]chat" < 1087416922 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[MULTICS] was designed to support hundreds of users on a machine only slightly more powerful than an intel 386, although it had much more I/O capacity. This is not quite as crazy as it sounds, since peolpe knew how to write small, efficient programs in those days, a skill that has subsequently been lost" < 1087420752 0 :psi!~psi@c-887e71d5.028-127-6c756c1.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1087423347 0 :psi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1087425777 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1087425784 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://catseye.mine.nu:8080/ -- http://fasd.ethz.ch/qsf/ || http://www.randelshofer.ch/fhw/gri/holzi.html < 1087451402 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"BitchX-1.0c19 -- just do it." < 1087451927 0 :deltab!~deltab@82-36-27-104.cable.ubr02.smal.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1087459199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1087459200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1087460652 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1087493959 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1087501864 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah. < 1087501929 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking at http://esoteric.sange.fi/essie2/ < 1087501933 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so completely amazing. < 1087501939 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great languages. < 1087501950 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to the golden age of esoteric programming?... < 1087502550 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries < 1087512439 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1087512999 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1087512999 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1087514857 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087545599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1087545600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1087552588 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"[about to lose electricicicity soon]" < 1087559336 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087559336 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087559451 0 :mooz-!~root@cs182082.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1087559451 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1087559456 0 :sanxiyn!~tinuviel@dor22235.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1087560133 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087560134 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087560224 0 :mooz-!~root@cs182082.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1087560224 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1087561307 0 :sanxiyn!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087569883 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1087576594 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :deltab|x < 1087576663 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1087579558 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1087589737 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1087590751 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1087594598 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087603835 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1087606051 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087609141 0 :Toreu1!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087609141 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1087609151 0 :Toreu1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Toreun < 1087612791 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as07-pho-az-205-186-110-46.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087612795 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1087612812 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as07-pho-az-205-186-110-46.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087612822 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1087616248 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087618422 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as08-pho-az-205-186-111-88.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087622279 0 :deltab|x!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1087623244 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087631999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1087632000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1087680416 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1087705318 0 :heatsink!cirodrig@adsl-67-125-224-138.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087708423 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1087709008 0 :heatsink!cirodrig@adsl-63-203-76-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087711095 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087718399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1087718400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1087752010 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1087752716 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as07-pho-az-205-186-110-152.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087752722 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1087752765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'vening. < 1087753036 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning :) < 1087753245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must do a physical relocation; away 30 minutes. < 1087753360 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ran into a small hiccup with call(gosub) & return.. it needs a place to return to (the next instruction). I've thought of 3 schemes to handle it. 1) start temp labels at -1 (problem: big number when 32-bit) 2) labels 2x, temp labels 2x+1 (problem: on-gosub,goto get messed up), 3) have user specify and create return label (problem: annoying) < 1087753522 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm leaning toward 3, because it is the easiest to implement, but it doesn't remove the main problem: there is no IP (instuction pointer) < 1087753992 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm.. I think I'm going with 3.. seems like it gives the most power (don't have to return to where you came from) and least problems < 1087754428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :returned. < 1087754471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still doing the assembly language? < 1087754655 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1087754686 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized I don't really need a call/gosub if I'm going to do it this way.. return is nice tho < 1087754696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do call/cc. < 1087754699 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(call = push, jmp) < 1087754767 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: call would have been jsr.. return is ret < 1087754779 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misunderstood what you were saying < 1087754841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean I want a "call/cc" instruction in your assembly language, the call-with-current-continuation from scheme. < 1087754863 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that is < 1087754880 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(never used scheme) < 1087754890 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably doesn't make much sense in a language without closures. < 1087754921 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the major stuff done, just a few things remain now < 1087754927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit like setjmp/longjmp in C. < 1087754985 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jmp's are all register based, so an ongoto is simple < 1087755029 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you "just" need a c compiler which creates code for your assembler. < 1087755037 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1087755087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does your assembly language look like a 'normal' computer? I mean registers, labels you can use as storage and such? < 1087755088 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't finished implementing the STK command (to set the stack size).. also need to understand/use a few of dbc's compare and divide/mod routines < 1087755099 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes & no.. < 1087755114 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 4 registers < 1087755132 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack (accessible via push & pop only) < 1087755152 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory (random access) < 1087755187 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :labels are made with code < 1087755235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm-well, it doesn't sound too strange. < 1087755273 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jmp's are made up an "endless" loop and of a bunch of tests, i.e.: this is line 4, you wanted 13, keep going, etc, until a match is found < 1087755296 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same way as bfbasic) < 1087755336 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I tried to make it as nmormal as possible, except this gosub thing was being a pain < 1087755336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds that any non-trivial C programs will compile to rather big blobs of brainfuck. < 1087755343 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1087755362 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code will be huge < 1087755392 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to write a new bf interpreter that can handle large code and data < 1087755399 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you know of one) < 1087755512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnope. but you can write a brainf*ck->befunge translator, probably some funge98 interpreters handle pretty big source files since the spec defines an infinite playfield. < 1087755516 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. also need to put in some kind of automated text -> bf at the beginning, because I use a lot of strings for bfasm < 1087755527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus that would get you a nice constant-ish "times n" increase to the "binary" size. < 1087755566 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1087756109 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087756570 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1087756572 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087772170 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1087779040 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1087779908 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as12-pho-az-205-186-115-94.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087780193 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1087780764 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087780903 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as12-pho-az-205-186-115-94.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087780986 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087793949 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1087793949 0 :clog_!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1087794860 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1087794860 0 :clog_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :clog < 1087796455 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087804799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1087804800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1087816158 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1087820142 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1087820150 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! < 1087820155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehlo. < 1087820162 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1087820182 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't been for a while, but that isn't completely my own fault < 1087820481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting muchly tired of this java crap. < 1087820488 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1087820557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a function foo() that works when run in the main thread of the midlet, then there's the near-identical function bar() which doesn't-really-work-but-almost when run in a separate thread, and manages to hang up the phone completely when run in the main thread. < 1087822138 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrhh.. selecting right colours is hard. :( < 1087822250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :black, black and black. :p < 1087822258 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1087822450 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, that wasn't so hard. < 1087824843 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i think i'll go, i probably come back later if i can < 1087824846 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1087824847 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1087826033 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087826033 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087826038 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087826044 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087826659 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087826660 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1087826674 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1087826674 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1087826674 0 :kosmikus!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1087826674 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1087826674 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1087826819 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1087826819 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087838796 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil. just evil. < 1087839007 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is? < 1087839114 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe. < 1087839137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did it do now? < 1087839448 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as10-pho-az-205-186-113-39.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087839454 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1087839560 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. bfasm is fully working < 1087839625 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this morning I made a new ansi c bfi.. can handle big programs and allocates more memory as needed < 1087839682 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ansi C you say! want to submit to comp.lang.c so they can tear it apart when it doesn't completely conform to some really obscure bit of the Standard? < 1087839717 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thanks :P < 1087839747 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about gcc -W -Wall -ansi -pedantic C then? :) < 1087839767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you return EXIT_SUCCESS; from main() on a successful termination? < 1087839793 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to write it because the program I assemblewd last night was over 100k (lots of string data) < 1087839798 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes < 1087839803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, good. < 1087839814 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta go < 1087839818 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiafm < 1087839835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"be back in a f* manual", I read. < 1087840344 0 :calamari-!JeffryJohn@as08-pho-az-205-186-111-236.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087840361 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re's < 1087841028 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1087841219 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk.. rewriting bfasm in asm < 1087841303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bfasm? < 1087841329 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1087841483 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1087841523 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to write the c compiler in C and then make it compile itself? < 1087841542 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually < 1087841562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funky. < 1087842492 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087848988 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087851612 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as07-pho-az-205-186-110-109.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087852219 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ran into a speed problem < 1087852249 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-]'ing a negative 32-bit int takes a long time < 1087853565 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made a temp workaround.. if the interp sees [-] it clears the cell < 1087859912 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1087863651 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1087891199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1087891200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1087893355 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1087917256 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1087921176 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1087926453 0 :Toreun!sakt@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087927653 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1087927653 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1087927664 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1087927678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n'hi. < 1087927702 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiya < 1087927708 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :working on that java? >:) < 1087927737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, just got home. < 1087927757 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if I have any luck I'll get to do something !java tomorrow. < 1087927809 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm really knowledgeless about java, is that some other java? < 1087927964 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"!java" as in "anything else except java". < 1087928057 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i see! :) i should've thought it that way, well, for some reason i didn't < 1087928070 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's good < 1087931214 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, i think i'll do some work with bf.. < 1087931232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go for a walk. < 1087931232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in an hour or so. < 1087931237 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1087931243 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beware bears < 1087931337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I've heard in finland there are ice bears all over the place. < 1087931346 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true :) < 1087931430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess otaniemi/tapiola-region is full of them too. < 1087931442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :away now. I'll try not to get eaten. < 1087932854 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otaniemi/tapiola is the most dangerous territory < 1087933915 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll go to eat something < 1087937084 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1087938824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :managed to avoid being eaten by a grue. < 1087938824 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1087938835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because it was so un-dark out there. < 1087950650 0 :Toreu1!jvdf@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1087950660 0 :Toreu1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Toreun < 1087977599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1087977600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1087989354 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1088005105 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1088005457 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088005457 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088005458 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088005458 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088005458 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088005873 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088005873 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088005874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088005874 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088005874 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088006156 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1088006156 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088006156 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088006156 0 :kosmikus|away!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1088006156 0 :Toreun!jvdf@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088006156 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088006156 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088006156 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1088006156 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1088006156 0 :mooz-!~root@cs182082.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1088006156 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1088006505 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088006505 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088006505 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088006505 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088006925 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1088006925 0 :Toreun!jvdf@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088006925 0 :kosmikus|away!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1088006925 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088006925 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1088015162 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1088015780 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088021481 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as07-pho-az-205-186-110-17.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088021488 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088021518 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aloha. < 1088021587 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still working on the bfasm rewrite in bfasm.. some of it is working, but some not, probably due to typos < 1088021593 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should i double major in math and computer science < 1088021596 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just major in math? < 1088021624 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That really depends on the math courses. < 1088021632 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :major in cs then get masters in math < 1088021658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big is your partially-working bfasm when brainf*cked? < 1088021676 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's about 190k atm < 1088021719 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: why major in CS at all? < 1088021726 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taaus: they seem interesting. < 1088021748 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Any statistics? < 1088021757 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: to get a job < 1088021760 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stats courses, that is. < 1088021950 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: most of the 190k is because of the string data (bf code for each instruction) < 1088021986 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't implement anything to optimize +'s.. it just puts as many as it needs < 1088022389 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm. < 1088022551 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taaus: very little < 1088022562 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stats is a separate specialization from math < 1088022672 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. In that case, I'd say go for pure maths. < 1088022689 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1088022691 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1088022705 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason to take CS would be so I have some kind of job afterwards. < 1088022716 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I really don't want to be is a high-school math teacher. < 1088022748 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a degree in mathematics isn't enough? Strange. < 1088022769 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bachelor's degree in math won't help that much. go with CS. < 1088022813 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both sounds like a good compromise :) < 1088022821 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm certainly not taking pure CS. < 1088022842 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't do a double major. But that's just me and my lack of work ethic. < 1088022852 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not really a double major. < 1088022855 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a combined major. < 1088022859 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1088022886 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i lied. < 1088023096 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you're gonna be going for a graduate program, do something in undergrad that won't be too hard or time consuming, and will be able to get you a job when you're through < 1088023214 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that I'm not talking from experience, being still stuck in high school. so don't take what I said that seriously. < 1088023249 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1088023736 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. I'll just ignore you, then :) < 1088024278 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good < 1088024283 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1088024366 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles < 1088030405 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1088032133 0 :sexygirl153!~bees@h69-cpe104.insinc.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088032167 0 :sexygirl153!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :iamcal < 1088032244 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow someone new here < 1088032269 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly new < 1088032274 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not been around for a while < 1088032291 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a member of the mailing list for the last x years (where x>5 i think) < 1088032291 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1088032319 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Milo from the list on here? < 1088032321 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, yes, the infamous mailing list that has my server blacklisted < 1088032331 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1088032684 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toreun: It's only just, you understand. < 1088032710 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1088034263 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1088034264 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1088035597 0 :Breadman!~breadman@209.151.52.103 JOIN :#esoteric < 1088036712 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo-hoo i got a bank account < 1088037224 0 :Breadman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1088042911 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need one of those < 1088042911 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1088048690 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"buh bye" < 1088052226 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088052226 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088052226 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088052226 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088052228 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088052228 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088052228 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088052229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088052229 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088052468 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1088052468 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088052468 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088052468 0 :kosmikus!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1088052468 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088052468 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088052468 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1088052468 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1088052468 0 :mooz-!~root@cs182082.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1088052468 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1088054365 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as02-pho-az-205-186-105-7.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088054373 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088054428 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfasm seems to be working.. testing it against its own source to see if it generates the same program < 1088054466 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's taking a long time, though.. probably won't be done for more than a hour :P < 1088054517 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess my bf interpreter is partially to blame for that, tho < 1088054876 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088054876 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088054876 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088054876 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088054876 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088054877 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088054877 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088055075 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1088055075 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as02-pho-az-205-186-105-7.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088055075 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088055075 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088055075 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088055075 0 :kosmikus!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1088055075 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088055075 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1088055262 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088055615 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088055630 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088055633 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088056191 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088056383 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088056948 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088057541 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088057541 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088057541 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088057542 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088057929 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1088057929 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088057929 0 :kosmikus!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1088057929 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088057929 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1088058124 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088058125 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088058125 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088058125 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088058125 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088058125 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088058126 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088058126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088058126 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088058735 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1088058735 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as03-pho-az-205-186-106-226.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088058735 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088058735 0 :kosmikus!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1088058735 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088058735 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088058735 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088058735 0 :fizzie!fis@sesefras.tky.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1088058735 0 :Taaus!~T@cpe.atm0-0-0-196156.0x3ef21ebe.boanxx5.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1088058735 0 :mooz-!~root@cs182082.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1088058735 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1088058749 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1088058749 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1088059757 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's still running, lol < 1088060008 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far everything is matching up great < 1088060308 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you using an optimizing brainfuck compile? < 1088060311 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*compiler < 1088060331 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you certainly should. < 1088060557 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: know of any that handle 16-bit numbers and large programs? < 1088060571 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably all of them < 1088060593 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about 0=eof < 1088060622 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow.. gotta go < 1088060631 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tired < 1088060635 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1088062692 0 :WildHalcyon!~1c34f3b3@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088062711 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, whats going on? < 1088063644 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leafChat IRC client: http://www.leafdigital.com/Software/leafChat/" < 1088063999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1088064000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1088071057 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1088075685 0 :lament_!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088076070 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088082143 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088082143 0 :lament_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088082145 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088082145 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088082146 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088082146 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088082303 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1088082303 0 :lament_!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088082303 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088082303 0 :kosmikus|away!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1088082303 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088082303 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088082303 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1088082327 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088082328 0 :lament_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088082328 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088082329 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088082329 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088082329 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088082347 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1088082347 0 :lament_!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088082347 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088082347 0 :kosmikus|away!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1088082347 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088082347 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088082347 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1088086775 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1088086784 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088089037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi. < 1088089557 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088089569 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. you're alive < 1088089616 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'oh, i think i'll have to go, bye. < 1088089617 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1088090026 0 :Breadman!~breadman@209.151.52.103 JOIN :#esoteric < 1088093346 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as07-pho-az-205-186-110-130.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088093403 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1088094449 0 :Breadman!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088096984 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, goog idea.. ha_bf2c makes things much more bearable < 1088097105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you write a c-to-brainf*ck compiler in c, compile it with itself to get a c-to-brainf*ck compiler in brainf*ck, then compile the resulting brainf*ck back to c to get a c compiler in c? < 1088097370 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet.. still just working on the asm part < 1088097382 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted a native assembler first < 1088097388 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still testing it < 1088097446 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick c question.. I have a getchar().. if it's negative (error) I want it to set to zero.. can I do something like getchar()?:0 < 1088097475 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really do getchar()?getchar():0 < 1088097520 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't messed with ? very much < 1088097531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do something like (c=getchar())>0?c:0 < 1088097587 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just '(c=getchar())?c:0' would be rather pointless, it'd return what getchar returns if it's true (non-zero) and 0 if getchar returned zero. < 1088097663 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd still need the c= ? < 1088097687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. a?b:c can't return the value of 'a' if you don't assign it somewhere. < 1088098530 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to adjust ha_bf2c to have EOF return 0 (my assembler expects that) < 1088098640 0 :lament_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088098661 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi lament.. thanks for the optimizing compiler idea < 1088098810 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! they are exactly the same < 1088098828 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess that means I need to write up some documentation < 1088098983 0 :lament_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1088104211 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1088104219 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1088108169 0 :WildHalcyon!~1c34f3b3@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088112842 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1088113477 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088113477 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088113478 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088113478 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088113478 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088113662 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1088113662 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088113662 0 :kosmikus|away!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1088113662 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088113662 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1088113692 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088119378 0 :iamcal!~bees@h69-cpe104.insinc.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088125954 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as07-pho-az-205-186-110-131.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088126024 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088126169 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088126227 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello iamcal < 1088126250 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 'cal' is fine ;) < 1088126281 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be very confusing, almost like I'm talking to myself.. I guess here that would be perfect :) < 1088126306 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1088126675 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 people! < 1088126678 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing. < 1088126701 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/people/agent < 1088126704 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1088126907 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi lament < 1088128333 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1088150399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1088150400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1088151408 0 :WildHalcyon!~1c34f3b3@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088151510 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"buh bye" < 1088152268 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leafChat IRC client: http://www.leafdigital.com/Software/leafChat/" < 1088154082 0 :andreou!~sam@athe530-l021.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1088154192 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened to cmeme? < 1088154940 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"A tree excells at being a tree." < 1088161012 0 :andreou!~sam@212.205.234.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1088162443 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"A tree excells at being a tree." < 1088163247 0 :andreou!~sam@212.205.247.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1088163973 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"A tree excells at being a tree." < 1088178349 0 :andreou!~sam@212.205.246.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1088179028 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"A tree excells at being a tree." < 1088182551 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as01-pho-az-205-186-104-14.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088182569 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088182843 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suggests: Welcome to the esoteric programming channel! Logs of previous discussions are available at http://tunes.org/~coreyr/date.php?chan=esoteric < 1088184846 0 :andreou!~sam@212.205.255.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1088186036 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088187226 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1088191221 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as10-pho-az-205-186-113-221.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088191273 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about bf optimizations... < 1088191342 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a program takes no input, and produces no output then it can be replaced by either a program that immediately exits or freezes (depending on if the original exits) < 1088191391 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it takes no input, and exits, any output produced could be captured and reproduced < 1088191424 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, given a particular set of inputs, it is the same as having no inputs < 1088191502 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if input is not predetermined and there is no output, it still can't be optimized, because the act of exiting the program provides information (could return a binary answer that way, say 1=exit, 0=didn't exit) < 1088191549 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow.. that was my random thought on optimizations :) < 1088191569 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, the only you should know will it exits or not :) < 1088191694 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve: it could be assumed that all programs will eventually exit, by loss of power, malfunction, etc < 1088191800 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then, I guess we should say with no i/o commands, an empty program is the best optimization? < 1088191917 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should the malfunction be considered an input that is not predetermined? that would mess up the whole idea < 1088191919 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++++++++++++ (ord 'n' times) .++++++++ (ord 'o' times). [] < 1088192369 0 :andreou!~sam@212.205.234.59 JOIN :#esoteric < 1088193058 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1088194077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no such thing as a malfunction. current probabilistic primality testing algorithms are less likely to err than a "correct" primality tester is to give a wrong answer thanks to a flipped bit due to some random electromagnetic radiation (at least so 'they' tell me), but we still think the second algorithm is always correct. < 1088195761 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"A tree excells at being a tree." < 1088203863 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1088203881 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088203881 0 :cmeme2!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088203997 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1088203997 0 :cmeme2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1088204036 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088204947 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1088205621 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088205662 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1088205908 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088212415 0 :iamcal!~bees@h69-cpe104.insinc.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088221521 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088228727 0 :Tril!tril@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1088231899 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"buh bye" < 1088236799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1088236800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1088237077 0 :WildHalcyon!~1c34f3b3@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088237589 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Goin' away now!" < 1088276569 0 :bbls!~bbls@80.97.121.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1088276580 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1088276624 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088276636 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Toreun < 1088276654 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you, bbls? < 1088276658 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1088276669 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking to create a new language :) < 1088276680 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[yes.. yet another one :)] < 1088276716 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1088276730 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many have you made < 1088276731 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1088276750 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have no ideea :) < 1088276757 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's the same language < 1088276771 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :improved, name changed several times, etc < 1088276781 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I know how that is < 1088276784 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it work? < 1088276784 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1088276787 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1088276791 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have certain problems < 1088276847 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially with floating point stuff < 1088276862 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because using floats < 1088276866 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floating point? an esolang with floats? < 1088276876 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not many of those, iirc < 1088276878 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a+b-a is not necesarly b < 1088276919 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true < 1088276928 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the problem arising? comparisons? < 1088276937 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just comparisons < 1088276944 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my plan is to create a language < 1088276963 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is designed in a such way so that the compiler can easly prove that it can't generate exceptions for any input value < 1088277048 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. hmm < 1088277057 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1088277063 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x)=1/x < 1088277078 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compilation should fail because division is not defined for x=0 < 1088277087 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have then to define < 1088277098 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NonZeroReal:= [x | x in Real and x<>0]; < 1088277108 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(NonZeroReal x):=1/x; < 1088277108 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088277117 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is ok now < 1088277135 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :althrought the function < 1088277138 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x):=switch < 1088277139 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1088277148 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x= 0 : 0; < 1088277158 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x<>0 : 1/x; < 1088277158 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1088277167 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is always defined, so it's ok < 1088277191 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088277207 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more complex situations arise from < 1088277222 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x):=1/(3*x^2-2*x+1); < 1088277241 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler needs a builtin symbolic algebra engine < 1088277256 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it can solve that equation and find that it has no real solutions < 1088277261 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the function is always defined < 1088277303 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088277321 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any symbolic algebra libraries out there? < 1088277329 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know < 1088277335 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i want to code that too < 1088277346 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just use some out of the box lib < 1088277352 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it need some other stuff < 1088277386 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like patterns of recursivity that can be proven to be finite by induction, etc < 1088277401 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1088277413 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to prove that the recusrivity is finite < 1088277417 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1088277427 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do that in general < 1088277442 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for particular algorithms/particular patterns you can < 1088277506 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to build some kind of database < 1088277519 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this database will contain basic identities such a+b=b+a < 1088277534 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or basic inferences such a>b -> a+c>b+c < 1088277550 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088277601 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... the TI-89 calculator I *think* uses logic to do most basic inferences, but I have no idea how, rather than a database < 1088277642 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a database and smart algorithms for searching in the database < 1088277657 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a database? < 1088277683 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the database of proof tips (identities, etc) just what i told you before < 1088277694 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088277705 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1088277714 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you would need basics, thinking about it < 1088277729 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously there are lot of papers on the net about that < 1088277733 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers can't exactly handle Number Theory, etc. < 1088277744 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there? I haven't looked < 1088277756 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can't find papers that deal with the problem of limited precision < 1088277763 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from Turing's thesis with deals with computational theory < 1088277765 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that result in problems like a+b-a<>b < 1088277982 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088278038 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no problem for a symbolic math package < 1088278058 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since the program is supposed to run on a real machine < 1088278063 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that results in big trouble < 1088278072 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a really huge problem < 1088278077 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two ways: 1) symbolic computations, 2) keeping miscalculation, i.e. keeping two numbers - result and precision < 1088278099 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or keeping 2 numbers, lower limit and higher limit or result < 1088278113 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, same thing. < 1088278201 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the problem is how you do symbolic computation with that < 1088278254 0 :tonsofpcs!~mirx@ool-4351f382.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088278317 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi there tons < 1088278538 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1088278548 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be possible to write a number < 1088278555 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as [minlin:maxlim] < 1088278573 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still do symbolic computations < 1088278635 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to provide minlim and maxlim for all primitive operations < 1088278651 0 :Tril!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1088281300 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow we had Tril in here < 1088281387 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbls: Somehow I don't think precision is your biggest problem < 1088281403 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament what you think then that's my biggest problem? < 1088282339 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1088282343 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1088282344 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would this compile? < 1088282353 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(;;); < 1088282356 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return 1/0; < 1088282356 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1088282363 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the language is a pure functional language < 1088282371 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an iterative one < 1088282377 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UM < 1088282384 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see my point. Hopefully. < 1088282407 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's why is purely functional :) < 1088282418 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also recursion is limited to specific cases < 1088282422 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1088282427 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are known from database to be finite < 1088282454 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 1/0 would be catched < 1088282465 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because division is not defined for 0 < 1088282507 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What database? < 1088282524 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a database < 1088282524 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So your language will be incapable of running a program that doesn't halt? < 1088282529 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1088282538 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be impossible to compile a such program < 1088282550 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's not Turing-complete < 1088282557 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it would be impossible to compile a program that generates exceptions < 1088282562 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence not very fun < 1088282564 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not it is not turing-complete < 1088282620 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that does not means that ppl really neet turing-complete languages < 1088282625 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*need < 1088282687 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1088282695 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you manage to create a language like that, it will be the first. < 1088282703 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1088282708 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that < 1088282713 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are many problems < 1088282715 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not aware of any languages in which non-halting programs are impossible which is of any use. < 1088282739 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how will you construct this database? < 1088282745 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a database < 1088282750 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that contains all basic identities < 1088282762 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such "a>b -> a+c>b+c" < 1088282763 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1088282771 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like a normal symbolic algebra package < 1088282798 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what does that have to do with recursion? < 1088282813 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1088282824 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also have to prove that all recursions in the program are finite < 1088282839 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for that you need to specify in the database < 1088282845 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some particular cases < 1088282850 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the recusion is finite < 1088282854 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as? < 1088282866 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x):=switch < 1088282867 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1088282876 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x=0 : 0; < 1088282894 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x>0 : f(x)-1; < 1088282895 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}; < 1088282911 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually functions that respect that pattern < 1088282916 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be proven to be finite < 1088282920 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using induction < 1088282941 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually, but certainly not always. < 1088282971 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said < 1088282972 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x):=switch < 1088282972 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1088282972 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x=1 : 1; < 1088282977 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will always be a program that can't be compiled < 1088282981 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a specific version < 1088282995 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x%2 == 0: f(x/2); < 1088282996 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you you can add support for it in next version < 1088283006 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else: f(x*3 + 1); < 1088283007 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1088283025 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"else" is banned < 1088283032 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant < 1088283038 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/else/x%2!=0 < 1088283045 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1088283047 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since < 1088283053 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x%2=0 < 1088283057 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conflicts with first < 1088283058 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one < 1088283060 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x=1) < 1088283066 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have overlapping conditions < 1088283073 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor you can have missing cases < 1088283090 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pure nazism :) < 1088283104 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this is irrelevant < 1088283111 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is relevant < 1088283115 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not < 1088283118 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of those restrictions < 1088283123 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not < 1088283127 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler will be able to actually do some work < 1088283132 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewriting my function to fit your restrictions is trivial < 1088283141 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a(x):=switch < 1088283149 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1088283154 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1088283156 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks < 1088283160 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first you mix < 1088283167 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reals with naturals < 1088283258 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a(x):=switch < 1088283262 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1088283262 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x%2==0: b(x/2); < 1088283262 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x%2!=0: b(x*3+1); < 1088283262 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1088283262 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b(x):=switch < 1088283265 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1088283268 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x==1: 1; < 1088283270 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x> 1: a(x); < 1088283273 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1088283275 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with it now? :) < 1088283294 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1088283306 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b(x) does not catch x<1 < 1088283318 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's pretend there's a clause for that there. < 1088283326 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What now? < 1088283369 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a output is always real < 1088283392 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you see my point or do you not? < 1088283395 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not ok < 1088283400 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since x is not decreasing < 1088283402 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if you don't, there's little sense in talking to you. < 1088283419 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So your language doesn't really support recursion. < 1088283431 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a(11) for example < 1088283439 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get infinite loop < 1088283444 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks a bit like recursion, but actually it's just loops with a decreasing counter. < 1088283490 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct? < 1088283542 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it now < 1088283550 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you transform x into a multiply of 2 < 1088283556 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you keep dividing it < 1088283858 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that does not means that's impossible < 1088283867 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just means that it's hard < 1088283876 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is? < 1088283892 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to write the compiler < 1088283904 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it can recognize such patterns < 1088283919 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is something that can be done by a human brain < 1088283926 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a computer can do it too < 1088283927 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it won't be able to compile this program? < 1088283939 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it is clearly defined < 1088283952 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the program is finite it will compile < 1088283965 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the compiler proves that it is not finite won't compile < 1088283987 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case that it won't be able to either prove either disprove < 1088283996 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will refuse to compile too < 1088284006 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds very, very useless. < 1088284017 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't even write hunt the wumpus in it. < 1088284049 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what algorithm is that? < 1088284057 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a game. < 1088284080 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an infinite game? < 1088284088 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most games are. < 1088284112 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there has to be a solution to that too < 1088284123 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there hasn't. < 1088284147 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When a language isn't Turing-complete, it doesn't "have" to have anything. < 1088284175 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1088284181 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is one thing i've missed < 1088284192 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get an infinite game < 1088284194 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1088284205 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every program that implements a game is finite < 1088284227 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just imagine an automata < 1088284242 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :althrought the number of states the system passes thru < 1088284254 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual pass from one state to another is finite < 1088284263 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always, for any game < 1088284340 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't get it < 1088284352 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1088284358 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a function < 1088284366 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that receives a number of moves < 1088284372 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one from every player) < 1088284379 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then outputs the state of the game < 1088284402 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(eg: a bitmap) < 1088284418 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :althrought the size of the list of moves < 1088284420 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is indefinite < 1088284423 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual process < 1088284427 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of computing the state < 1088284428 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is finite < 1088284436 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since the number of moves is always finite) < 1088284446 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number of moves is finite? Why? < 1088284454 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the number of POSSIBLE move < 1088284462 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number of moves realised by the players < 1088284486 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say you want a game < 1088284494 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where one person things about one number < 1088284503 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other person tries to guess it < 1088284526 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for simplicity then game ends at first guess < 1088284539 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously there is an indefinite number of moves < 1088284545 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the actual number of moves < 1088284548 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is always finite < 1088284571 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look here: < 1088284588 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :State function(move_list list1, list2) < 1088284590 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1088284627 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return state < 1088284628 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}; < 1088284644 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the length of list1 and list2 is indefinite < 1088284645 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but always finite < 1088284648 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you get it? < 1088284678 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because it's not < 1088284716 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number of moves 2 playes can make is indefinite but ALWAYS finite at a moment of time after they started the game (when you compute the new state) < 1088284747 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you get it now? < 1088284760 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1088284767 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, the state is finite. < 1088284770 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say we have a game every 10 seconds < 1088284771 0 :tonsofpcs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1088284772 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is, the program doesn't halt. < 1088284779 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And therefore isn't allowed by your compiler. < 1088284799 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is since the actual computation of the state uses a finite number of elements (since the lists are finite) < 1088284807 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so therefore the program is finite < 1088284812 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so therefore it can be compiled < 1088284849 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply put, f(x):=combine_state(f(x-1), last_move); < 1088284850 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't halt < 1088284856 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(;;) is "finite" < 1088284862 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1088284863 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have any state at all < 1088284867 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(;;) is not finite < 1088284873 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don;t have a such construct in my language < 1088284888 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er i meant for(;;) but anyway < 1088284922 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a specific list of moves the function is always finite < 1088284936 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that list is taken as players make their moves < 1088284943 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so therefore it is always finite < 1088284972 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(althrought it tends to grow towards +infinite, it will never reach that) < 1088285008 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is infinite is the number of all possible game end starting with a specific number of moves already done < 1088285036 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trying to write a program that finds all thos solutions is invalid in any language you write it < 1088285064 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you get it now? < 1088285136 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're crazy. < 1088285153 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1088285192 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just becaues. < 1088285194 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because. < 1088285210 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think your idea can't possibly work, but i don't know enough about it to prove that. < 1088285771 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least until you can do that i have innocence asumption :) < 1088286367 0 :tonsbot!~mirx@ool-4351f382.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088286461 0 :tonsbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088286712 0 :tonsbot!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tonsofpcs < 1088288868 0 :tonsofpcs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1088288879 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tonsofpcs < 1088289115 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtg < 1088289117 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye ppl < 1088289117 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1088296715 0 :tonsofpcs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1088296956 0 :tonsofpcs!~mirx@ool-4351f382.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088296958 0 :tonsofpcs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088297015 0 :tonsofpcs!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1088304901 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as01-pho-az-205-186-104-94.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088305007 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088305396 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hd < 1088307537 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space hd .. space hard drive.. hard drive space? are you worried about your hard drive space? < 1088308080 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1088308101 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088309200 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye,s i am. < 1088310167 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you might need a new drive if you compile linux to bf :P < 1088312230 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1088323199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1088323200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1088323728 0 :WildHalcyon!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088323824 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone still up? < 1088324096 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1088325021 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly impatient people. < 1088325030 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of _course_ there're people still up. < 1088334048 0 :bbls!~bbls@80.97.121.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1088358164 0 :babygeek!~wilde@xdsle217.osnanet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1088359020 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088359020 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088359052 0 :bbls!~bbls@80.97.121.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1088359052 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088360717 0 :bbls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1088361731 0 :babygeek!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"[BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.0c20cvs for the Nintendo GameCube today!" < 1088384880 0 :WildHalcyon_!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088384936 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry about my lack of patience yesterday, I was tired, and Im still really sick < 1088384967 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd been reading the logs, and I was hoping to run across bbls, so I could comment on some of the ideas he'd put forth regarding his new language < 1088384996 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1088386475 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back! < 1088387109 0 :WildHalcyon__!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088387118 0 :lament_!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088387451 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1088388161 0 :WildHalcyon!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088388219 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088388501 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088388997 0 :WildHalcyon_!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088389044 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid computer... < 1088389071 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay redundantly redundant < 1088389107 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, sorry < 1088389125 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have said "deathly ill computer" < 1088389138 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with it? < 1088389176 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it goes through these bouts of freezing < 1088389203 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im not sure exactly when or why it happens, but the only solution I've found so far has been a clean reinstall of XP < 1088389318 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... well, maybe it's not a software problem. could be the motherboard. check with support forums for your computer, see if it happens to other people. < 1088389334 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it happens after you reinstall the OS < 1088389348 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, once I reinstall the OS, its okay for a while... < 1088389352 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I KNOW its a hardware problem < 1088389357 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I dont have the bling-bling to fix it < 1088389378 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it's a bug in the hardware, call up the company < 1088389394 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should replace it if it's a common problem, no matter what < 1088389409 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im not sure which company to call... motherboard? graphics card? memory? < 1088389421 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might even be my DVD drive < 1088389424 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im not sure < 1088389430 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DVD drive? < 1088389435 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try disconnecting parts? < 1088389459 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's prolly not the gfx card < 1088389467 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be memory < 1088389468 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a flaky gfx card actually < 1088389481 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to freeze the computer entirely? < 1088389486 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freezes the comp and every reboot I have to boot several times until a pic comes up < 1088389492 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1088389496 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1088389502 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check if others have problems with the hardware you have < 1088389516 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got this from work, being a matrox I still like it more than my old voodoo3 despite the oddities :) < 1088389518 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ive checked and I havent found anything, I posted the problem in several forums < 1088389524 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1088389562 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I know is - its only an XP problem, I had windows 2K server, and it didnt freeze up < 1088389576 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088389656 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first thought would be to run without one of the memory boards < 1088389666 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if that helps < 1088389669 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried switching them out < 1088389672 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing yet < 1088389701 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now, I think I might just deal until my student loans come in, then I can buy a new one < 1088389786 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1088389797 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until then, I'll just bask in the glory of esoteric programming languages < 1088389884 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go ponder about how much taking care of an iguana would cost, and try to sleep also < 1088389893 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the same time? < 1088389905 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleeping and pondering about iguanas... < 1088389908 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1088389939 0 :mooz-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the temperature here fits them better than me so I can't sleep < 1088390026 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you'll have freaky iguana dreams < 1088390115 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Godzilla < 1088390130 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was one freaky iguana < 1088390254 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like most estranged youths, I've been trying to create an esoteric language, iguana wouldn't be a bad name for it... < 1088390281 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iguana is a pretty good name for an esoteric language < 1088390294 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you'd just have to make a recursive acronym out of it < 1088390317 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your esolang like? < 1088390318 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's always the fun part < 1088390327 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its sadly a little on the boring side.. < 1088390339 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1088390341 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ive always liked befunge, but I thought it was a little too... I dont know... too much like a toy < 1088390360 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I thought I would be horrible and make a useful version, one that had some added abilities < 1088390367 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im debating about lambda calculus < 1088390408 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1088390444 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or functions/procedures < 1088390459 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but regardless... the part that Im having trouble with is that, since befunge is a 2D language, I want the functions to be 2D as well < 1088390484 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I want to be able to mark how tall/wide the function is in the definition < 1088390488 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could define functions as being a set of locations in a plane < 1088390517 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of having a function definition defined by a vector - a point and an x and y coordinate for a rectangle < 1088390538 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088390551 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :within the rectangle, the function IP behaves exactly like a regular fungish pointer - on a torus < 1088390604 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have functions uncreatively in my esolang. you can just define characters as including a file < 1088390622 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont understand? < 1088390653 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could define a character, let's say 'q', as doing whatever is in a file "foobar" < 1088390662 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh! < 1088390663 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1088390666 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088390668 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's not too bad < 1088390680 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually very good < 1088390684 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not really a function as it is more like a symlink < 1088390693 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't have scope or anything < 1088390711 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah.. but it certainly has modularity - every function is immediately a modular file < 1088390717 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088390728 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My crazy comp sci 101 prof. would be thrilled - he LOVED modularity < 1088390730 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made my life easy when proving turing-completeness for my language < 1088390761 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My language isn't special enough to require a very well-thought-out proof for TC < 1088390778 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mine was pretty obviously turing complete < 1088390783 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wanted to prove it nonethesame < 1088390789 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wrote a brainfuck interpreter for it < 1088390790 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in it** < 1088390797 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that'll prove it then < 1088390800 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088390810 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's extremely slow, but that's to be expected < 1088390831 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Ive been working on my language for a few months (3.... I think), because I'm having a big issue deciding how to call the functions < 1088390842 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, I wrote my interpreter in PHP, an interpreted language. so I had my brainfuck interpreter being interpreted by my language interpreter being interpreted by a php interpreter being interpreted by the processor < 1088390850 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One option is just to push the function name onto the stack and have an 'execute' command < 1088390862 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must not have been very fast... < 1088390871 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1088390891 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of these days I'll rewrite it in C < 1088390901 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... you handle strings? < 1088390908 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's like befunge < 1088390909 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly < 1088390909 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088390915 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im actually debating that < 1088390926 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might just handle chars and 8-bit ints < 1088390947 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then support a library of functions to deal with strings and 32/64/9999-bit ints, and floating point numbers < 1088391000 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of have string support... I have a buffer that concatenates digits to represent a decimal number < 1088391012 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another option I was considering was using unicode for the programming and having function names be japanese kanji characters - but I thought that might be too hard to program in < 1088391019 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... evil < 1088391021 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it < 1088391027 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1088391031 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might make it a derivative language ;-) < 1088391547 0 :WildHalcyon!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088391552 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah! < 1088391562 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer slightly mad < 1088392456 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1088392650 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your computer must not like that you're suggesting esoteric programming languages < 1088392652 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's getting scared < 1088392653 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088392655 0 :WildHalcyon__!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088392679 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computer fears me < 1088392682 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :muahahahaha! < 1088392703 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... not so scared as it is frantic. < 1088392716 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computer's afraid of me - it listens to me < 1088392720 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... every attempt to subvert me only deepens my resolve < 1088392752 0 :iamcal!~bees@h69-cpe104.insinc.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088392855 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the evening is nigh... project 'iguana' shall be completed before its death < 1088392865 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1088392878 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :project iguana? < 1088392900 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1088392910 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, its the temporary name of my esolang < 1088392921 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toreun and I were discussing it earlier < 1088392928 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fleshing out some bloody annoying details < 1088392977 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088392992 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm whatever your computer's got must be contagious, WildHalcyon < 1088392993 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computer, in its infinite hatred of everything that I was, am, or ever will be, is trying to thwart my creative efforts < 1088393017 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, yeah... its infected with RAGE... stupid 28 days later < 1088393220 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its alright though, Im beginning with the good old-fashioned pencil-and-paper technique, I visualize stuff better when I write it down < 1088393250 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never visualize things on the computer < 1088393292 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never really be creative on a computer... especially a desktop < 1088393299 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I have trouble with that too < 1088393326 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to get my typewriter fixed. I actually prefer writing, like narratives, etc, on a typewriter. < 1088393348 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think programming in befunge on a typewriter would be a little more than just difficult < 1088393357 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088393361 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get that feeling too < 1088393507 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I still need a method for calling methods < 1088393524 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the execute-string method isn't necessarily BAD, its just not very esoteric < 1088393549 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088393551 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1088393569 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088393617 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at one point I was debating about 2D function names, but I dont think I can do it with just the 127 ascii characters < 1088393638 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about: get rid of methods all together - just have the equivalent of a goto in 2D < 1088393691 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another possibility. < 1088393708 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you can define "sections" of your code to be about one thing < 1088393708 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of having 2 types of gotos - a regular one, and a 'function' one that kept track of where it came from < 1088393717 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, like gosub < 1088393735 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I meant < 1088393742 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I'm speaking basic here, it seems < 1088393754 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"stuff to do" < 1088393791 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its okay < 1088393802 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked the term, and I understood it, even if Ive never learned basic < 1088393825 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. that's what basic's about, I guess < 1088393844 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC's my roots, though, and it's the only language I can think of with gosub < 1088393863 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I might just have to get myself a BASIC education < 1088393866 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... sorry for the pun < 1088393889 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay. I appreciate bad puns. < 1088393906 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I realized that would have been the perfect opportunity for INCLUDING a bad pun within that statement < 1088393910 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unfortunately, I could not think of any < 1088393928 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, its what Im here for < 1088394003 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1088394020 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1088394103 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever heard of the language java2k? < 1088394109 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1088394119 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would gather from the name that it's like a new version of Java < 1088394131 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a language which I cannot stand, btw) < 1088394152 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially because it's overused WAY TOO MUCH) < 1088394156 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah, I'll stop ranting now) < 1088394178 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, thats perfectly fine, no.. its more of a joke language < 1088394187 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1088394194 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles it < 1088394209 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has random undefined behavior < 1088394215 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, perfect time for my internet to crap out on me < 1088394236 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes, so it's a lot like java < 1088394237 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something works alright only 90% of the time, including the 90% < 1088394264 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1088394268 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that statistic? < 1088394302 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then that statistic? < 1088394328 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Java2K is not a deterministic programming language, but a probabilistic one. Even for built-in functions, there is only a certain probability the function will do whatever you intend it to do. All Functions have two different implementations. At runtime, based on a pseudo-RNG, the actual implementation is choosen. This is in line with common physicalist assumptions about the nature of the universe - there is never absolute securi < 1088394342 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ays only probability" < 1088394343 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. so I'll stop with the probability theory. < 1088394435 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, its crzy < 1088394441 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088394459 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I guess if EVERYTHING holds true to the 90% of the time thing, we'd have a paradox < 1088394471 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it would become 0% eventually < 1088394490 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, theres one instruction which would operate 100%... Im trying to remember what it is, I think its an if statement < 1088394582 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1088394584 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's no fun < 1088394593 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a 90% chance of the if being an ifnot < 1088394619 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one of those too, but this instruction is set up so that you can make it 99.9, or 99.99% < 1088394627 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1088394639 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im sorry, Im not explaining it right < 1088394646 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p-nand-q.com/humor/programming_languages/java2k.html < 1088394659 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think I'm on that site < 1088394662 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I am < 1088394746 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the manual is 404, you can get it cached one google though < 1088394758 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088395093 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, phone conversation distracting me < 1088395095 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1088395252 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phew... finally! < 1088395268 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1088395278 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've been looking at other langs (especially esolangs) to see what ideas I can 'borrow' (I prefer steal) to include < 1088395302 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm writing up formal specs for my lang right now, actually < 1088395307 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a 2D language < 1088395314 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was inspired by befunge < 1088395330 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it very similar to befunge, or is it more like argh or enema? < 1088395339 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not familiar with those two < 1088395344 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, it's not similar to befunge < 1088395354 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's two dimensional < 1088395357 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about it, I guess < 1088395385 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that I really like about two dimensional languages is that there's no need for for- and while- loop syntax, because you can just write your own < 1088395403 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088395434 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else is special about it? < 1088395441 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a stack and a queue < 1088395453 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's self-modifying techniques I consider pretty original < 1088395544 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the instruction list: http://www.toreun.org/quast/esolang.txt < 1088395549 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a specification, though < 1088395557 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a lot might be unexplained and confusing < 1088395591 0 :WildHalcyon!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088395672 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its looks okay < 1088395751 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's a stack and a queue? < 1088395763 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1088395804 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an a section called the "void" which is basically temp memory for operations < 1088395808 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a buffer < 1088395813 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for numbers < 1088395862 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh, ok < 1088395885 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.toreun.org/quast < 1088395899 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's my interpreter, and my brainfuck interpreter < 1088395912 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm off to bed, I'll finalize my specification tomorrow < 1088395921 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'night < 1088395921 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night then < 1088395954 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im out of here too < 1088395957 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1088396561 0 :WildHalcyon__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088401106 0 :WildHalcyon!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088402252 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1088409599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1088409600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1088421110 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088423138 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1088431713 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088432439 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088435421 0 :Toreun!auozr@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088441178 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as03-pho-az-205-186-106-221.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088441180 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088441206 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088441490 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's new, calamari_? < 1088441792 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too much.. haven't worked on anything since I released bfasm 0.10 < 1088441812 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, can I take a look at that? < 1088441851 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure :) http://www.kidsquid.com/compilers/bfasm/bfasm.html < 1088441925 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what syntax does it use? nasm? < 1088441975 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up my own syntax for it based on what would be easiest to parse < 1088442047 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 letter instruction.. operands (spaces or tabs are ignored) < 1088442083 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks pretty normal, though.. for example: mov r1, r2 < 1088442086 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I see < 1088446200 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1088447753 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1088447917 0 :lament_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: so are you going to compile C to it? < 1088447991 0 :kosmikus|away!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1088448787 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yeah, I still want to do that < 1088448808 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be ANSI C, tho < 1088448829 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that might upset some purists < 1088448840 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. C is so boring. Implement B instead! < 1088448861 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCPL ? < 1088448907 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, B. I believe it came somewhere in-between BCPL and C. < 1088448915 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1088448944 0 :Taaus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I've seen, it's something like a typeless C. < 1088449419 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat, B looks a lot closer to what I'll be doing: http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/btut.html < 1088452297 0 :lament_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1088455577 0 :calamari-!JeffryJohn@as11-pho-az-205-186-114-200.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088456780 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088460863 0 :iamcal!~bees@h69-cpe104.insinc.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088471114 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1088472351 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088472365 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as01-pho-az-205-186-104-183.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088475765 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1088475835 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088482173 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyas < 1088482174 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1088485676 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"stuff to do" < 1088486667 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088488597 0 :WildHalcyon_!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088488673 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi WildHalcyon_ < 1088489225 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as08-pho-az-205-186-111-173.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088489255 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088489272 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi calamari_ < 1088489776 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088490371 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bedtime.. bbl :) < 1088490373 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1088495999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1088496000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1088511387 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1088511984 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1088523769 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088526922 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088526923 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088526923 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088526988 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1088526988 0 :kosmikus!~andres@kosmikus.developer.gentoo JOIN :#esoteric < 1088526988 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088526988 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1088531047 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as01-pho-az-205-186-104-163.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088531050 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088531339 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1088531549 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had a thought about BF.. it's not quite symmetric. "[ ] = while (*p) { }", but there is no "{ } = while (p) { }".. with that you could do {<} to set p =0 < 1088531614 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that really necessary though? do you have to keep track of the absolute pointer location? < 1088531641 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: pointer locations aren't numbered < 1088531649 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's just "left" and "right" < 1088531650 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think that it would detract from the "purity"? of BF < 1088531669 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not necessary, but neither is - (you can just loop around with +'s) < 1088531683 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: no, that's implementation-dependent < 1088531686 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: you are missing the point entirely < 1088531688 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by that logic, neither is < or > < 1088531689 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: your numbers might be infinite < 1088531826 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your memory space might also be infinite < 1088531847 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1088531858 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: there's nothing saying that cells in bf are positive only, or finite.. this is true.. but that makes [-] equally as valid as {<} < 1088531875 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because with a negative cell, [-] goes off to infinity < 1088531885 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(negative infinity that is) < 1088531892 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the real problem with {} is that it's so completely useless < 1088531898 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for anything but the {-} construct < 1088531904 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er= < 1088531907 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the {<} < 1088531927 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so easily replaceable with a sentinel in any case < 1088531946 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: not true.. you can do "add" loops to set big pointers < 1088532012 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. like I said, it's not needed... but not as symmetric without it < 1088532041 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1088532180 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering, did anyone ever make brainfuck-native hardware? I read something about it awhile, and I'm just wondering if anything happened with it < 1088532192 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. { } makes it possible to get/set the mp from a cell value during program execution making arrays much less wasteful < 1088532212 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toreun: I think they made a chip and showed it at a demo party? < 1088532225 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that could be way off < 1088532263 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm well I guess that could always be a college engineering design project. < 1088532289 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading about a MOVE machine earlier, seems pretty interesting (move is the only "instruction", i/o and jmps are memory mapped) < 1088532347 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1088532368 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/arch/risc/ < 1088532606 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/arch/risc/ < 1088532609 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1088532711 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: hm, that's a fairly neat one < 1088532718 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like it more than OISC < 1088532754 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool page < 1088533560 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1088533585 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this link is broken: http://www.cs.eku.edu/~styer/oisc.html < 1088533586 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1088535586 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1088536317 0 :calamari-!JeffryJohn@as02-pho-az-205-186-105-45.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088537331 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1088538500 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1088541048 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as01-pho-az-205-186-104-71.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088541055 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: http://web.archive.org/web/20030425001315/http://www.cs.eku.edu/~styer/oisc.html < 1088541159 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :calamari < 1088543992 0 :WildHalcyon!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088547065 0 :rapidly_constant!~Guest071@202.141.243.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1088547684 0 :rapidly_constant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"{Linux|Pakistan} Rocks! - http://www.linuxpakistan.net/chat/" < 1088548110 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088549586 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1088552084 0 :iamcal!~bees@h69-cpe104.insinc.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088554205 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1088555709 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1088564679 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088564679 0 :deltab!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088564680 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088564680 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088564680 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1088564881 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088565126 0 :iamcal!~bees@h69-cpe104.insinc.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088565126 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088565641 0 :deltab!~deltab@espians.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1088565641 0 :lament!~lament@S01060050baab2c59.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088568750 0 :WildHalcyon!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088572953 0 :WildHalcyon_!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088574002 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088579739 0 :WildHalcyon!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088580788 0 :WildHalcyon_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1088582399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1088582400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1088585045 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1088591728 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1088603482 0 :Keymaker!~Keymaker@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1088603492 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evening < 1088604247 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, 'dinner' time.. < 1088607960 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, bye < 1088607963 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1088614402 0 :calamari_!JeffryJohn@as02-pho-az-205-186-105-119.rasserver.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088617098 0 :kosmikus!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus|away < 1088619619 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1088620247 0 :WildHalcyon!~wildhal@c-24-18-250-7.client.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088620739 0 :kosmikus|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kosmikus < 1088628970 0 :WildHalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1088634120 0 :Toreu1!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088634120 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1088634129 0 :Toreu1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1088634130 0 :Toreu1!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088634135 0 :Toreu1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Toreun < 1088634534 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/" < 1088635107 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1088637539 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Shutting Down < 1088637540 0 :Toreun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1088637646 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. JOIN :#esoteric < 1088637646 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o ChanServ < 1088639436 0 :Toreun!~Toreun@ool-45738c44.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric