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17:30:37 <lament> lala: la, lalala [ la lala lalala lalalalala lala la ] la, la, lala. la!
17:32:04 <mtve> or it was factorials, or prime numbers?
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05:47:46 <calamari_> wrote a non-recursive parser from scratch today to handle RL assoc things like = and the unary op's.
05:48:36 <calamari_> I guess the only reason I mention that is that bfcc isn't dead :)
05:48:58 <calamari_> glad I didn't have to use a recursive parser
06:06:10 <calamari_> still trying to figure out how I'm going to actually do assigns and ++/--
06:09:09 <heatsink> you're compiling from C to bf?
06:09:40 <calamari_> basically the situation is that I'm using registers during evaluation.. for example a=b turns into something like r1=a, r2=b, r1=r2.. however that doesn't transfer the value of b to a.. only to r1.
06:10:23 <calamari_> the situation a=b is simple, because the address is known
06:12:08 <calamari_> if it's an lvalue you only want (&a+(b))
06:13:52 <heatsink> I think you want *((a)+(b)) in both cases
06:15:12 <calamari_> heatsink: well lets say &a = 100; b=2 and the value at 102 is 4. *(&a+b) gives 4
06:15:27 <calamari_> you don't want to assign to that memory address
06:15:43 <heatsink> C doesn't allow you to say &a = 100;
06:16:34 <heatsink> Okay, I think I understand. a contains 100 and b contains 2
06:17:56 <heatsink> What if you have something like getAddress() = getOtherAddress()
06:18:43 <calamari_> my parser wouldn't recognize a function as an lvalue, so who knows what would happen
06:19:21 <heatsink> The way I would parse an assignment statement is different from how you're doing it
06:19:50 <heatsink> ...or the way I would convert it to low-level instructions anyway
06:20:31 <calamari_> I might be confusing the issue, because when I think about pointers I tend to revert to assembly language concepts
06:22:27 <heatsink> I would reduce the LHS and RHS of an assignment to an expression the same way
06:22:41 <heatsink> Then take a reference to the LHS
06:22:53 <heatsink> and use that as the address to store the value of the RHS into
06:25:19 <calamari_> okay, that's my problem.. how is &*() possible? Once I do the *, I have a 4, and I can't think of how to gget back to 102
06:25:43 <heatsink> You are manipulating expressions, not evaluating them
06:25:59 <heatsink> there's just a rule that &*x = x
06:26:12 <heatsink> unless x is not a pointer type
06:28:22 <heatsink> I think you need an IR to do it this way
06:28:45 <heatsink> If you convert it to assembly as soon as possible, you lose the information you need
06:30:40 <heatsink> This will work with function calls, pre & post increment, which is nice
06:33:26 <heatsink> *++a = b is ({a = a+1; MEM[&*a] = b;}) ...... *a++ = b is ({temp = a; a = a+1; MEM[&*a] = b;})
06:34:10 <heatsink> I guess my approach implies an IR; no way around it that I can see
06:35:14 <heatsink> Do you begin printing output before you finish reading input?
06:39:25 <heatsink> I see... a lightweight translator then
06:40:15 <calamari_> I don't want to use much memory, because that is slow in BF
06:40:58 <heatsink> Well, here's a question for you. What will the following code do?
06:41:54 <calamari_> you can only do int a; or int a[number]
06:42:51 <calamari_> If you need memory you could do something like a=malloc(1000)
06:44:09 <heatsink> so the language is strictly typed
06:47:02 <calamari_> I'm not sure what that means, I guess :)
06:48:08 <calamari_> I wanted to avoid messed up situations like int ******* a;
06:49:26 <calamari_> anyhow.. I'll keep thinking on it and see if I can come up with something
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21:54:07 <calamari_> got around the = and ++ -- problems by keeping track of whether the register is an address or a value. But, since I'm doing that, I might as well implement pointers all the way, since it should be trivial :P
21:56:32 <calamari_> only problem right now is that it accepts things like *(a+5)
21:59:33 <fizzie> in comp.lang.c one of the old-timers remarked that early C:s allowed you to dereference an integer constant, like:
21:59:36 <fizzie> struct rkreg { int csr; int dar; int wc; };
21:59:41 <fizzie> 0777440->wc = 256; /* one sector */
21:59:44 <fizzie> 0777440->csr = RK_READ | RK_GO; /* read the sector */
22:03:28 <calamari_> I'm figuring right now it's okay as long as valid c works as expected
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04:41:43 <JoeyP> WHAT THE FUCK REALTIME LOGGIN OMG LOL
04:45:24 <JoeyP> WE'RE THE SPHERE PARADE HORSES CLIQUE!
04:45:37 <lament> That's interesting. Tell me more.
04:45:39 <JoeyP> Also behold the saucage of power.
04:45:51 <JoeyP> We come from a far nation from esper.net.
04:46:00 <JoeyP> Our race calls it's self the spherical.
04:46:05 <lament> What the fuck is esper.net?
04:46:15 <JoeyP> A distant galaxy beyong your comprehension.
04:46:25 <lament> it says something about ragnarok online.
04:46:35 <JoeyP> Yes, ragnarok online is a plague to our people.
04:47:01 <LinkMasterSab> I came here 'cause esoteric languages are my new hobby. And I think this is related.
04:47:03 <lament> it's always a good idea to disallow RO channels.
04:47:17 <lament> no, this is actually a channel about esoteric cheese.
04:47:33 <JoeyP> Wait, from some theory of mind, cheese it the same as a programming language.
04:47:33 <lament> Today we're discussing Cheddar.
04:47:43 <JoeyP> You just have to be open minded about it ok.
04:47:58 <JoeyP> Look, the analogy is perfect.
04:48:05 <JoeyP> Programming languages often smell.
04:48:09 <JoeyP> They have holes in them.
04:48:15 <JoeyP> And tend to be yellow.
04:48:16 <lament> no, it's programmers that smell
04:48:36 <JoeyP> No the user just consumes it like if it were bratwurst.
04:48:39 <lament> some languages overcome yellowness
04:48:56 <JoeyP> green cheese is an instrument of SATAN.
04:49:27 <lament> anyway, don't choose esoteric languages as a hobby. it will ruin your life.
04:49:36 <JoeyP> green and yellow are also the two only colours in the universe.
04:49:41 <lament> this guy, he learned brainfuck, then his wife left him.
04:49:48 <JoeyP> I don't see how it can be a hobby.
04:49:53 <JoeyP> It's actually a way of life.
04:49:58 <lament> this other guy, he wrote a brainfuck interpreter, and then got raped by a bunch of thugs.
04:50:19 <JoeyP> Did he wear protection whole programming the interpreter?
04:50:27 <lament> another guy, he wrote a brainfuck compiler, and terrorists tortured him for a week before killing him
04:50:42 <lament> and i'd really rather not say what happened to the guy who invented brainfuck.
04:50:59 <JoeyP> he make america independant?
04:51:18 <JoeyP> Hmm, I should really get some sleep.
04:52:07 * JoeyP is thinking about an esotoric language, which you type like: zzZzZzzZ....
04:53:00 <JoeyP> Actually, an esotoric programming language called 'female' would be way more complex and interesting.
04:53:05 <JoeyP> However, not functional.
04:53:28 <JoeyP> Bits turn into bytes!
04:53:49 <Taaus> Uh... Why are you people talking about programming languages and not cheese?
04:54:00 <JoeyP> Because they're practicly the same.
04:54:10 <JoeyP> Turning bits into bites, etc.
04:54:49 <lament> put it on that shelf over there
04:54:51 <JoeyP> No, even I don't want it.
04:54:56 <lament> labeled "brainfuck interpreters in Python"
04:55:01 <JoeyP> Haha, your life is a failure :(
04:55:18 <Taaus> lament: I'm not sure there's room for one more...
04:55:33 <lament> Taaus: we'll just throw out some old ones
04:55:47 <lament> i think two or three of mine are in there
04:56:05 <JoeyP> Why make more brainfuck interpreters than needed?
04:56:23 <JoeyP> This somehow makes me think of politiceans. Or whatever you spell them.
04:56:49 <JoeyP> It's for convenience.
04:56:58 <JoeyP> What did you expect?
04:57:10 <JoeyP> A heterosexual brainfuck interpreter?
04:57:29 <Taaus> That would be... Straightfuck.
04:57:53 <lament> Cheesefuck (stay on topic dammit!)
04:58:47 <JoeyP> It's superiour, since it already had the cheesefuck.
04:58:55 <JoeyP> Plus, a chef made it.
04:59:22 <JoeyP> Oh, they make cheese in Sweden btw.
05:00:32 <JoeyP> It's incremental wit.
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05:04:17 <lament> one down, one more to go
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14:54:32 <JoeyP> Go play beachball.
14:55:56 <JoeyP> Isn't there a portal with all esoteric languages?
15:00:38 <JoeyP> I'll take that as a "NO BITCH, NOW FUCK OFF YOU FUCKING CUNT"
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15:01:14 <Joey[code]> anyway, time for my own esoteric language~
15:03:57 <fizzie> actually when you said 'portal' I thought you meant some real-world, dimensional-portal like thing.
15:04:56 <fizzie> well, intterweb portals seem even less so.
15:07:57 <Joey[code]> And they put us up with it just to experiment 'what people would think about it'.
15:10:05 <Joey[code]> I'm a great supporter of "You are as dumb as the world is"
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18:00:35 <calamari_> looks like you've been having a nice chat.. hehe :)
18:05:08 <calamari_> afk to convert this quickbasic mess into c code
18:42:00 <calamari_> not a quickbasic fan? I've been using it for years, and can get a lot don in a short amount of time (proof of concept, etc)
18:42:38 <calamari_> other languages seem to get in the way.. java doesn't as much
18:43:47 <fizzie> I write proof-of-concept-like things in C too, but I'm perhaps a masochists. (well, been using scheme and perl a bit more lately.)
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19:06:12 <fizzie> python has a silly indentation-sensitive syntax.
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19:42:03 <fizzie> well, maybe not silly. but it feels.. uncomfortable. maybe it just needs some getting used to.
19:42:18 <fizzie> 'silly' is such a funny word, wanted to use it I.
19:42:32 <lament> yes, it needs some getting used to. Like a day
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20:47:52 <fizzie> wait a minute.. are you an evil pythonista?
20:50:18 <fizzie> but #scheme said never to trust a pythonista.
20:51:44 <JoeyP> There's too many people there to... terrorise with success :(
20:53:03 <lament> fizzie: Never trust a schemer.
20:53:30 <fizzie> arr! now I don't know who to trust.
21:39:29 <fizzie> I don't think I trust that.
21:40:28 <Taaus> Trust me, you can trust that.
21:40:45 <lament> trust me, you can trust that.
22:43:53 <JoeyP> For trust is the devil.
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03:46:49 <LinkMasterSab> I'm making a Python script that applys HTML snippets into HTT's. It's stupid.
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00:58:01 <ro> Discord in my nippleverse... seems like the left one emigrated
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19:21:40 <calamari_> made a bf "computer" yesterday out of cardboard. has 4 memory cells with values on rings to flip forward and back and a pointer at the bottom that slides left and right :)
19:22:52 <JoeyP> haha, i once put an old system in a carton shoebox with a friend.
19:23:04 <JoeyP> it almost cought fire :(
19:23:05 <calamari_> hehe, okay. I'll get the digital camera out and take a couple
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19:51:21 <calamari-> okay.. http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/images/misc/bfcomp.jpg
19:55:20 <lament> for an obsessive compulsive homicidal maniac!
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02:06:04 <JoeyP> dutch football club
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20:10:12 <lament> hey diddle diddle the cat and the fiddle the cow jumped over the moon!
20:17:53 <fizzie> With a ping and a pong the fiddle-strings broke! the cow jumped over the Moon, And the little dog laughed to see such fun, And the Saturday dish went off at a run with the silver Sunday spoon.
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01:22:22 <JoeyP> I made my own esoteric language :P
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01:22:39 <JoeyP> www.nidhogg.com/romance/Romance.exe www.nidhogg.com/romance/Readme.txt
01:23:50 <JoeyP> i wonder how to make [ ] though
01:24:22 <JoeyP> no, if you're at ], you need to go back to the [
01:24:27 <JoeyP> this requires you to buffer all of the code.
01:24:41 <JoeyP> but i don't know how
01:24:45 <JoeyP> i should do that...
01:24:56 <LinkMasterSab> Buffering is okay for esoteric languages though :/
01:26:06 <LinkMasterSab> You can set up arrays with callbacks, add a new one for each [, and on ], return to the top on.
01:26:14 <JoeyP> some debugging messages are still in it
01:26:22 <JoeyP> i know, just a stack
01:26:25 <JoeyP> that's not the problem
01:26:49 <JoeyP> anyway, if anyone knows a cool thing to add
01:26:57 <JoeyP> it needs to be more romantic
01:27:01 <LinkMasterSab> You can cause it to buffer only when it reaches a "["
01:29:58 <LinkMasterSab> I tried to write a Brainfuck optimizer, didn't work too well.
01:29:58 <JoeyP> I think I found a way with istream
01:30:01 <JoeyP> it will be shitty though
01:30:27 <LinkMasterSab> Optimizing with large numbers causes it to use stacks you might not want it to :/
01:30:51 <LinkMasterSab> Plus I couldn't figure out how the fuck to make it work with the stacks to being with.
01:31:40 <JoeyP> Make another class out of an istream, and add functions to set the seeker
01:31:49 <JoeyP> if you have a file which has "abcde"
01:32:00 <JoeyP> and i could tell that if it reaches e
01:32:03 <JoeyP> that it would go back to a
01:32:11 <JoeyP> making abcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabc. etc
01:32:24 <JoeyP> but first i'll make file input
01:33:30 <JoeyP> already programming
01:35:06 <deltab> Joey from Dawson's Creek?
01:35:43 <JoeyP> Heh, yeah, Gay Romance.
01:35:47 <JoeyP> that will be version 2.
01:38:09 <JoeyP> hmm, i need to ignore new lines
01:39:31 <JoeyP> it's outputing newlines too much
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03:26:25 <Dn7> anyone wants to check it out? ;_;!
03:26:32 <Dn7> i worked long on this
03:26:36 <Dn7> a whole... 3 hours!
03:33:02 <Dn7> i'll make a new one when we get another contest though
03:34:55 <Dn7> RIGHT NOW?
03:38:41 <Dn7> they should make a language that makes sense
03:39:28 <Dn7> or 'german'
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22:19:31 <lament> Taaus: do you know any recordings of the WTC arranged for multiple instruments?
22:28:26 <lament> a violin isn't multiple instruments.
22:28:33 <lament> I mean an individual instrument for each voice.
22:29:40 <JoeyP> Does wtc stand for world trade center?
22:30:04 <lament> only among the unwashed masses.
22:30:28 <JoeyP> I actually just took a shower.
22:30:43 <lament> then wtc doesn't stand for world trade center among you.
22:32:37 <JoeyP> But for... Wielder of The Coconut.
22:44:44 <Taaus> lament: Hmm... Not off-hand, no. I know Jaques Loussier has made some arrangements for piano, acoustic bass, and drums, but somehow I don't think that's what you're looking for ;)
22:45:50 <lament> yeah, that's not quite what i meant :)
22:46:58 <Taaus> Somehow, the notion of each instrument playing a single voice doesn't strike me as very... Interesting.
22:49:21 <Taaus> Nope. Sorry. :) I also think it would be pretty damn boring for the musicians involved.
22:49:37 <Taaus> Now, vocal arrangements, on the other hand...
22:49:54 <lament> vocal arrangements DO exist
22:50:10 <lament> although they often had to use two people for one voice
22:50:56 <lament> anyway, i think such a recording would be way cool.
22:51:17 <Taaus> Well... Make one! :)
22:51:26 <Taaus> You can do... Piano and guitar. Hehe :)
22:51:28 <lament> that's hwat they all say
22:51:39 <lament> i can do many things (by virtue of having an electronic keyboard)
22:51:51 <lament> i'd need a good recording machine though
22:52:07 <Taaus> Oh, bah. There's no fun in doing it electronically.
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23:10:54 <lament> which is why i'd rather get a recording than record one myself.
23:33:14 <lament> still, why do you think it woudln't be interesting?
23:33:17 <lament> counterpoint is important.
23:33:28 <lament> and pianists inevitably muddle it.
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21:58:50 <sixforty> How do I leave the esolang email list?
22:55:53 <lament> you can check out, but you can never leave
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22:36:58 <calamari_> dunno why, but I got distracted into working on self extracting bf programs
22:37:14 <calamari_> probably because bfasm is so large
22:38:37 <calamari_> the compressor works well & uses chars 33-126.. I have a fairly simple decompressor, just need to translate it into bf
22:40:17 <calamari_> do you know of strcpy/strcat routines for bf?
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22:37:41 <fizzie> I made a key. (I use it for ssh authentication when using wincvs from the windows boxen at work.)
22:38:51 <Keymaker> hmmm... interesting toy in the logs: http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/images/misc/bfcomp.jpg
22:39:06 <fizzie> http://peili.hut.fi/tfy0201/cat.gif
22:39:10 <fizzie> see, a pretty picture.
22:39:52 <fizzie> it's aliveness is indeterminate.
22:40:11 <fizzie> nope. but I'll probably be taking the tfy-0.201 course this autumn.
22:40:36 <fizzie> they use the picture in the course description web-page to distract people from noticing that it isn't really that much fun.
22:41:34 <fizzie> this is in finnish, but the picture label is "Schrdingerin kissa. Oliko Schrdinger kissanvihaaja vai ei?
22:41:37 <fizzie> Miten kissalle oikein kvi? Vastaus ehk selvi kurssin aikana..."
22:43:30 <fizzie> maybe I'll try to translate. "Schrdinger's cat. Was Schrdinger a cat-hater or not? Whatever happened to the cat? We might find out during the course..."
22:53:17 <Keymaker> hmmm.. time to go.. ZzZZzzzz...
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00:42:47 <Toreun> That... hmm... are good
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17:46:01 <andreou> anyone here knows chinese?
17:46:07 <mtve> and it is esoteric how?
17:46:41 <andreou> it is esoteric? i didn't think of it as esoteric, although they may be from a certain perspective.
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03:08:13 <lament> http://www.radioshack.ca/estore/Product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=RadioShack&category=Educational+Toys&product=2808002&MSCSProfile=D2A27242FE5C7054CA02D1C573F248CF12B815197E3828D7521380E11DC45F89B3F57FA45C46A57C4D9B15888F9A369E0666C0438B9B833E59811BE5CBC04235444B2332FC5ED878FF9ABF1C8DCC95E74D1C189D60BF2F46E2221AA1B3E0AE67BAB0566985FC99F52768B5B435578DB0BAB231E0F452E586BFD3567D2B75C32BDFCC16D93074984A
03:08:46 <lament> the geekiest thing i ever bought, by far. It's awesome.
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