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03:38:42 <lament> befunge and brainfuck are both great.
03:39:06 <lament> they're the treasures of the esoteric world.
03:39:28 <lament> each is utterly disgusting and vile in its own inimitable way.
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12:34:34 <Keymaker> how the lyrics in 99 bottles of beer go? in the very end?
12:36:12 <fizzie> Pick one from www.99-bottles-of-beer.net and run it.
12:36:53 <fizzie> Well, yes. I'm not sure if any of them is "official".
12:36:56 <Keymaker> in some it ends with 0 bottles and in some that there is no more bottles or something..
12:37:42 <Keymaker> yeah. i just tought it'd be nice to know the 'official', i'd like to make on in brainfuck
12:37:52 <Keymaker> yes, it's been made thousands of times but still..
12:38:55 <fizzie> Some googling suggests that it ends either 'no more bottles of beer on the wall' or 'no bottles of beer on the wall'.
12:39:19 <Keymaker> hmmm, i think i'll use 'no more'
12:39:52 <fizzie> It sounds better, I think.
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12:43:58 <Keymaker> there as interesting talk about bf-os in some log
12:48:46 <nooga_> im waiting for calamari
12:50:36 <nooga_> befunge os would be much more funny
12:51:40 <nooga_> boot from diskette, screen dividet to 3 parts
12:52:04 <nooga_> code space, output window and stack listener :)
12:52:50 <fizzie> Mooz was thinking of perhaps doing a befunge processor with verilog or some other hardware description language as a course project or something. :p
12:53:23 <fizzie> Not right now, no, but we'll see.
12:54:01 <nooga_> you can go to the electronics shop and buy some transsistors :)
12:54:05 <fizzie> (Oh, and the operating system for our "hey, I'll write an emulator for a (zilog-z80-based) hardware device that doesn't actually exist" thing was supposed to use befunge in the startup scripts.)
12:54:49 <fizzie> Must go locate food, then it's a long (~570km) train-trip back home from this current Christmas-location I'm in. ->
12:55:49 <Keymaker> hmmm, actually finding some food wouldn't be bad idea.
12:57:18 <Keymaker> well, i think i'll go now :) bye
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13:04:41 <nooga_> my befunge interpreter works different than other
13:17:43 <ZeroOne> Keymaker: I'd enjoy a traing trip of 570 km if I had a laptop. ;) have you got one, fizzie?
13:18:18 <ZeroOne> fizzie: nice. hmm. does it boot Knoppix?
13:18:35 <fizzie> Not sure, but it dualboots OS X and Debian/ppc from the hd.
13:19:28 <fizzie> Has enough battery to last for ~5 hours of irc-over-gprs-over-bluetooth, which is about the time it takes for the train to go Joensuu -> Helsinki, so if I manage the Lieksa-Joensuu interval without irc, I can use it the rest of the trip.
13:23:18 <fizzie> Also, if I calculated correctly, my seats for the Joensuu-Helsinki part are quite close to the "tables" in the middle of the compartment, and those have electricity outlets under them, so I might be able to recharge, too.
13:41:48 <fizzie> Eek, time to go, train doesn't wait. ->
13:55:06 <ZeroOne> nooga_: how does your befunge interpreter work different than others?
13:55:36 <nooga_> because i dont pop from the stack when | or _ are noticed
13:55:56 <nooga_> but i wrote it from my memory and i didnt have a befunge specification
13:58:59 <ZeroOne> I thought it was something more fundamental
13:59:05 <ZeroOne> but then it was just a bug :)
14:00:12 <nooga_> do you have some ideas ?
14:00:37 <ZeroOne> erm, no. I haven't done that much befunge. I wrote a brainfuck interpreter in PHP, though.
14:01:27 <nooga_> bf is cool because you can write interpreter in 3 minutes :)
14:02:20 <ZeroOne> lindi-, who is not here right now, made a befunge interpreter that creates a linked list of the instructions and then abandons the grid. :)
14:03:29 <ZeroOne> that's something I'd call fundamentally different.
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14:06:50 <nooga_> im thinking about own eso lang
14:07:10 <nooga_> but im polluted with befunge and brainfuck
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14:11:29 <nooga_> it would be funny to build electronic brainfuck
14:12:12 <ZeroOne> nooga_: a fungeoid with a variable size instruction pointer would be fun
14:12:19 <ZeroOne> like, in befunge it is fixed to being 1x1
14:12:32 <ZeroOne> but 2x2 or 3x1 instructions could also be possible
14:12:52 <nooga_> that wold be paifull :)
14:13:07 <lindi-> you mean variable length instruction pointer or variable length instructions?
14:13:23 <ZeroOne> lindi-: hmm. maybe both. ;)
14:13:53 <ZeroOne> but I thought about variable length instructions.
14:14:49 <ZeroOne> it might need some instructions to work with wildcards
14:15:27 <nooga_> i will make brainfuck processor
14:15:37 <ZeroOne> hasn't that already been done?
14:16:12 <ZeroOne> http://www.clifford.at/bfcpu/bfcpu.html
14:16:25 <ZeroOne> and another: http://martin.egy.nu/index.php?page=bfcomp
14:17:18 <ZeroOne> yet another: http://robos.org/bfcomp/index.html
14:18:14 <nooga_> then mine will be yet yet another :P
14:20:20 <nooga_> there are using ready programmable devices
14:20:36 <nooga_> i plan to make one from the simpliest transsistors -.-
14:25:18 <ZeroOne> that will take, like, quite a few transistor...
14:26:05 <nooga_> but its enough masochistic task to complete it
14:27:28 <ZeroOne> I'd say something like 300 transistors
14:28:45 <lindi-> hmm, i might just try that CW6670 one
14:30:19 <lindi-> it's just that XILINX tools are all windows-only
14:30:37 <ZeroOne> you have to build your own XILINX tool first :)
14:32:25 <lindi-> ZeroOne: afaik it's not trivial at all. i'd need to know everything from voltage levels to internal timing issues of the chip
14:33:18 <ZeroOne> well, you can also choose to write a windows emulator with which you can run those existing tools ;)
14:38:18 <ZeroOne> if there aren't any GNU emulators that you could use
14:39:10 <ZeroOne> I guess WINE is open source
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15:44:12 <Keymaker> "06:06:50 <nooga_> im thinking about own eso lang"
15:44:26 <Keymaker> but i can't write interpreter in c
15:44:41 <Keymaker> since i can't do stuff with the files :\
15:45:47 <Keymaker> and writing the interpreters in bf would be really hard
15:46:01 <Keymaker> (and "impossible" at some level)
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16:12:25 <Keymaker> anyways; what i forgot to say was that: i'd like to see more interesting language (and interpreters for them), but more than that i'd like to see all new programs, not interpreters for existing languages :)
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20:53:06 <lament> what's with people not talking
20:53:13 <lament> they should stop not talking and start talking
20:53:20 <lament> and "hah" doesn't qualify
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21:13:04 <nooga> im trying to invent own eso language
21:13:41 <nooga> i thought about something like lisp but more minimal
21:17:48 <ZeroOne> nooga: I think that has already been done several times. do Unlambda, Lazy K and Iota and Jot say anything to you?
21:18:48 <mtve> the area of esoteric languages is quite good explored already. it's hard it invent something interesting.
21:19:05 <ZeroOne> nooga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlambda
21:22:29 <ZeroOne> well, you can make an easier functional language then
21:53:53 <lament> nooga: there're several basic concepts that you have to learn
21:53:57 <lament> before trying to create something "new"
21:54:20 <lament> basically, look at Brainfuck, Befunge, Lazy K
21:54:32 <lament> Wired or whatever i mean
21:54:53 <lament> lambda calculus in general
21:54:57 <lament> turing machines of course
21:55:27 <lament> then just try to come up with something that's like neither one of those :)
22:01:02 <nooga> 5{--} = +++++ in brainfuck; 2{5{--}.} = +++++.+++++.
22:05:38 <lament> anything with a brainfuck-like memory model is likely to be useless
22:05:43 <lament> i.e. not original enough
22:11:17 <nooga> nah... stupid again
22:16:37 <ZeroOne> hmm, I found a new esoteric programming language: Nietzsche: http://www.autistici.org/bakunin/
22:21:19 <ZeroOne> reminds me of that another one, whatsitsname...
22:22:27 <ZeroOne> http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/compilers/numberix/numberix.html
22:22:35 <nooga> befunge-like language but diagonal
22:23:39 <lament> oh, Game of Life is another one of those basic concepts
22:32:02 <ZeroOne> nooga: Conway's Game of Life
22:32:41 <ZeroOne> isn't that a familiar concept to you? fizzie said earlier that a befunge interpreter is often the first thing he does with a new language. Game of Life is mine. :)
22:36:15 <nooga> +++>++++++++++++<[>.<-]
22:36:15 <nooga> nooog gop noooooooooooog pog pop gop non pog gon gog
22:37:05 <nooga> may i paste several lines?
22:38:54 <nooga> o - counter (used where _)
22:38:54 <nooga> n_g +; g_n -; g_p >; p_g <; non .; ooo ,; pop [; gog ]
22:44:39 <nooga> simple enough to be my first eso lang
22:44:51 <nooga> and then i will think about something more complicated
22:51:25 <nooga> what do you think?
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23:01:48 <nooga> wanna see my useless version of brainfuck? :P
23:02:56 <nooga> +++>++++++++++++<[>.<-] in brainfuck is equal to:
23:02:56 <nooga> nooog gop noooooooooooog pog pop gop non pog gon gog (in #boob)
23:04:11 <nooga> o - counter (used where _)
23:04:11 <nooga> n_g +; g_n -; g_p >; p_g <; non .; ooo ,; pop [; gog ]
23:05:49 <Keymaker> i made nice idea today, though not telling it yet.. one thing is sure; writing a program will be time consuming.. :)
23:09:04 <Keymaker> "14:51:25 <nooga> what do you think?"
23:09:19 <Keymaker> what i've learned, on this channel that won't produce any replies :)
23:09:31 <nooga> like many others -.-
23:11:00 <nooga> this one is more intelligent than ook :)
23:11:33 <nooga> i,'ll add 'i' it will be equal to 'oo'
23:12:06 <nooga> and 'l' = 'ooooo', and 'u'='oooooooooo'
23:12:19 <nooga> that's it, my first eso lang
23:13:50 <nooga> niog gop nuig pog pop gop non pog gon gog
23:14:58 <Keymaker> here's sample of one (similar to brainfuck) i've been planning .;;;; .:; :; .;;;; ,:; ,.; ,.:;
23:15:32 <Keymaker> if i remember correctly (i didn't look at my notes about the instructions), that should get '16' to cell (1)
23:16:15 <Keymaker> basically, this is brainfuck, but with some extra instructions and instructions represented non-easier way
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23:21:13 <nooga> after writing #boob interpreter i'll try to write C2bf
23:21:27 <nooga> featuring 16 bit variables!
23:21:42 <Keymaker> (and someone here is tryin' it already :))
23:21:43 <nooga> but not whole C :P
23:21:56 <nooga> only basic functionality
23:22:35 <nooga> fear not! i have dragon's book and idea ;]
23:22:47 <Keymaker> uh.. no idea what those are :P
23:23:43 <Keymaker> (to note; with that "(and someone here is ..." i didn't mean myself, since i really am NOT trying it)
23:25:10 <nooga> maybe someone can put bf bot here
23:25:24 <Keymaker> i've thought the exact same thing
23:25:29 <Keymaker> although i have no idea how bots work
23:26:12 <Keymaker> but some bot that could execute bf code (and kick us all out because of a dangerous program)
23:26:43 <nooga> ill write one tommorow and put on my shell
23:26:58 <nooga> hah -.- perl again
23:27:45 <Keymaker> i'll suggest the "standardish" EOF=0 to make everyone's life easier
23:29:01 <nooga> must go to bed -.-
23:29:39 <Keymaker> i think i'll go as well -- i think i realized how to write a quine. <heart attack> ghafhwiu wiageoihgewiho nnngghhhh
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