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03:38:22 <lament> um.
03:38:42 <lament> befunge and brainfuck are both great.
03:39:06 <lament> they're the treasures of the esoteric world.
03:39:28 <lament> each is utterly disgusting and vile in its own inimitable way.
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12:31:48 <Keymaker> mornin'
12:32:46 <fizzie> Mornin'.
12:32:51 <Keymaker> hi
12:33:13 <Keymaker> hmmm..
12:34:34 <Keymaker> how the lyrics in 99 bottles of beer go? in the very end?
12:36:12 <fizzie> Pick one from www.99-bottles-of-beer.net and run it.
12:36:23 <Keymaker> that's the problem
12:36:27 <Keymaker> there are different versions
12:36:53 <fizzie> Well, yes. I'm not sure if any of them is "official".
12:36:56 <Keymaker> in some it ends with 0 bottles and in some that there is no more bottles or something..
12:37:42 <Keymaker> yeah. i just tought it'd be nice to know the 'official', i'd like to make on in brainfuck
12:37:52 <Keymaker> yes, it's been made thousands of times but still..
12:38:55 <fizzie> Some googling suggests that it ends either 'no more bottles of beer on the wall' or 'no bottles of beer on the wall'.
12:39:09 <Keymaker> cheers
12:39:19 <Keymaker> hmmm, i think i'll use 'no more'
12:39:52 <fizzie> It sounds better, I think.
12:39:56 <Keymaker> yes
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12:40:28 <Keymaker> welcome
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12:40:35 <Keymaker> d'oh
12:40:43 <nooga_> hi
12:40:47 <Keymaker> a hi
12:43:58 <Keymaker> there as interesting talk about bf-os in some log
12:44:20 <Keymaker> *as --> was
12:48:36 <nooga_> ehe
12:48:38 <nooga_> i remember
12:48:46 <nooga_> im waiting for calamari
12:49:38 <Keymaker> i see
12:49:45 <Keymaker> interesting idea
12:50:25 <nooga_> hmm
12:50:36 <nooga_> befunge os would be much more funny
12:51:02 <Keymaker> hmmm, maybe
12:51:14 <Keymaker> hmm, or then not :)
12:51:40 <nooga_> boot from diskette, screen dividet to 3 parts
12:51:45 <nooga_> divided*
12:51:58 <Keymaker> ok
12:52:04 <nooga_> code space, output window and stack listener :)
12:52:16 <Keymaker> :)
12:52:50 <fizzie> Mooz was thinking of perhaps doing a befunge processor with verilog or some other hardware description language as a course project or something. :p
12:53:07 <Keymaker> heh :)
12:53:14 <Keymaker> is he going to?
12:53:23 <nooga_> lololz
12:53:23 <fizzie> Not right now, no, but we'll see.
12:53:32 <Keymaker> ok
12:54:01 <nooga_> you can go to the electronics shop and buy some transsistors :)
12:54:05 <fizzie> (Oh, and the operating system for our "hey, I'll write an emulator for a (zilog-z80-based) hardware device that doesn't actually exist" thing was supposed to use befunge in the startup scripts.)
12:54:49 <fizzie> Must go locate food, then it's a long (~570km) train-trip back home from this current Christmas-location I'm in. ->
12:54:56 <Keymaker> eeek
12:55:05 <Keymaker> train's fun
12:55:16 <Keymaker> but that long trips, not :\
12:55:49 <Keymaker> hmmm, actually finding some food wouldn't be bad idea.
12:57:18 <Keymaker> well, i think i'll go now :) bye
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13:04:09 <nooga_> -.-
13:04:41 <nooga_> my befunge interpreter works different than other
13:17:43 <ZeroOne> Keymaker: I'd enjoy a traing trip of 570 km if I had a laptop. ;) have you got one, fizzie?
13:17:57 <ZeroOne> nooga_: how's that?
13:17:57 <fizzie> Sure, this iBook.
13:18:18 <ZeroOne> fizzie: nice. hmm. does it boot Knoppix?
13:18:35 <fizzie> Not sure, but it dualboots OS X and Debian/ppc from the hd.
13:19:01 <ZeroOne> ok
13:19:28 <fizzie> Has enough battery to last for ~5 hours of irc-over-gprs-over-bluetooth, which is about the time it takes for the train to go Joensuu -> Helsinki, so if I manage the Lieksa-Joensuu interval without irc, I can use it the rest of the trip.
13:23:18 <fizzie> Also, if I calculated correctly, my seats for the Joensuu-Helsinki part are quite close to the "tables" in the middle of the compartment, and those have electricity outlets under them, so I might be able to recharge, too.
13:38:36 <nooga_> hmm
13:38:40 <nooga_> youre finnish
13:41:48 <fizzie> Eek, time to go, train doesn't wait. ->
13:41:56 <fizzie> But "yes".
13:55:06 <ZeroOne> nooga_: how does your befunge interpreter work different than others?
13:55:13 <nooga_> ah
13:55:36 <nooga_> because i dont pop from the stack when | or _ are noticed
13:55:56 <nooga_> but i wrote it from my memory and i didnt have a befunge specification
13:56:00 <nooga_> ill fix it
13:56:38 <ZeroOne> ok
13:58:59 <ZeroOne> I thought it was something more fundamental
13:59:05 <ZeroOne> but then it was just a bug :)
13:59:51 <nooga_> yes
13:59:54 <nooga_> -.-
13:59:58 <nooga_> just a bug
14:00:12 <nooga_> do you have some ideas ?
14:00:37 <ZeroOne> erm, no. I haven't done that much befunge. I wrote a brainfuck interpreter in PHP, though.
14:01:00 <nooga_> hehe
14:01:27 <nooga_> bf is cool because you can write interpreter in 3 minutes :)
14:02:20 <ZeroOne> lindi-, who is not here right now, made a befunge interpreter that creates a linked list of the instructions and then abandons the grid. :)
14:03:24 <nooga_> oh
14:03:29 <ZeroOne> that's something I'd call fundamentally different.
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14:06:38 <nooga_> hm
14:06:50 <nooga_> im thinking about own eso lang
14:06:57 <nooga_> different than other
14:07:10 <nooga_> but im polluted with befunge and brainfuck
14:08:28 <ZeroOne> hmm
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14:11:29 <nooga_> it would be funny to build electronic brainfuck
14:11:47 <nooga_> hi lindi-
14:12:11 <lindi-> hi
14:12:12 <ZeroOne> nooga_: a fungeoid with a variable size instruction pointer would be fun
14:12:19 <ZeroOne> like, in befunge it is fixed to being 1x1
14:12:32 <ZeroOne> but 2x2 or 3x1 instructions could also be possible
14:12:41 <nooga_> lol
14:12:44 <nooga_> yup
14:12:52 <nooga_> that wold be paifull :)
14:13:07 <lindi-> you mean variable length instruction pointer or variable length instructions?
14:13:23 <ZeroOne> lindi-: hmm. maybe both. ;)
14:13:53 <ZeroOne> but I thought about variable length instructions.
14:14:49 <ZeroOne> it might need some instructions to work with wildcards
14:15:20 <nooga_> ha
14:15:27 <nooga_> i will make brainfuck processor
14:15:37 <ZeroOne> hasn't that already been done?
14:15:43 <nooga_> dunno
14:15:47 <nooga_> i will make my own
14:15:55 <nooga_> to code everywhere!
14:16:12 <ZeroOne> http://www.clifford.at/bfcpu/bfcpu.html
14:16:25 <ZeroOne> and another: http://martin.egy.nu/index.php?page=bfcomp
14:17:18 <ZeroOne> yet another: http://robos.org/bfcomp/index.html
14:18:03 <nooga_> ah
14:18:14 <nooga_> then mine will be yet yet another :P
14:18:26 <ZeroOne> :)
14:20:05 <nooga_> nah
14:20:20 <nooga_> there are using ready programmable devices
14:20:36 <nooga_> i plan to make one from the simpliest transsistors -.-
14:25:18 <ZeroOne> that will take, like, quite a few transistor...
14:25:44 <nooga_> yeah
14:26:05 <nooga_> but its enough masochistic task to complete it
14:27:28 <ZeroOne> I'd say something like 300 transistors
14:28:34 <nooga_> hm
14:28:40 <nooga_> not too much
14:28:45 <lindi-> hmm, i might just try that CW6670 one
14:30:19 <lindi-> it's just that XILINX tools are all windows-only
14:30:37 <ZeroOne> you have to build your own XILINX tool first :)
14:31:10 <nooga_> hm?
14:32:25 <lindi-> ZeroOne: afaik it's not trivial at all. i'd need to know everything from voltage levels to internal timing issues of the chip
14:33:18 <ZeroOne> well, you can also choose to write a windows emulator with which you can run those existing tools ;)
14:38:18 <ZeroOne> if there aren't any GNU emulators that you could use
14:39:10 <ZeroOne> I guess WINE is open source
14:39:11 <ZeroOne> but
14:39:16 <ZeroOne> I'll be back later. ->
14:39:18 <lindi-> :P
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15:40:38 <Keymaker> hey
15:44:12 <Keymaker> "06:06:50 <nooga_> im thinking about own eso lang"
15:44:19 <Keymaker> i've had some ideas as well,
15:44:26 <Keymaker> but i can't write interpreter in c
15:44:41 <Keymaker> since i can't do stuff with the files :\
15:45:47 <Keymaker> and writing the interpreters in bf would be really hard
15:46:01 <Keymaker> (and "impossible" at some level)
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16:11:16 <Keymaker> hi
16:12:25 <Keymaker> anyways; what i forgot to say was that: i'd like to see more interesting language (and interpreters for them), but more than that i'd like to see all new programs, not interpreters for existing languages :)
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18:22:42 <nooga> hi once again
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20:06:08 <nooga_> hahh
20:34:26 <lament> hah?!
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20:47:06 <ZeroOne> hah.
20:53:06 <lament> what's with people not talking
20:53:13 <lament> they should stop not talking and start talking
20:53:20 <lament> and "hah" doesn't qualify
20:53:33 <mtve> HAH
20:55:02 <lament> heh
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21:12:52 <nooga> hehe
21:13:04 <nooga> im trying to invent own eso language
21:13:07 <nooga> but i cant
21:13:10 <nooga> im too stupid
21:13:41 <nooga> i thought about something like lisp but more minimal
21:17:25 <nooga> i dun know x_x
21:17:48 <ZeroOne> nooga: I think that has already been done several times. do Unlambda, Lazy K and Iota and Jot say anything to you?
21:18:31 <nooga> i dont know them
21:18:48 <mtve> the area of esoteric languages is quite good explored already.  it's hard it invent something interesting.
21:18:56 <nooga> i know
21:19:05 <ZeroOne> nooga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlambda
21:20:39 <nooga> mph
21:20:44 <nooga> too wisted
21:20:49 <nooga> twisted*
21:21:47 <ZeroOne> heh :)
21:22:29 <ZeroOne> well, you can make an easier functional language then
21:26:33 <nooga> aah
21:26:37 <nooga> im too lame -.-
21:47:58 <nooga> damn
21:53:53 <lament> nooga: there're several basic concepts that you have to learn
21:53:57 <lament> before trying to create something "new"
21:54:14 <nooga> turing ;)
21:54:20 <lament> basically, look at Brainfuck, Befunge, Lazy K
21:54:25 <lament> uhh what else
21:54:27 <lament> Weird
21:54:32 <lament> Wired or whatever i mean
21:54:39 <lament> Unlambda
21:54:53 <lament> lambda calculus in general
21:54:57 <lament> turing machines of course
21:55:27 <lament> then just try to come up with something that's like neither one of those :)
21:56:41 <nooga> heh
22:01:02 <nooga> 5{--} = +++++ in brainfuck; 2{5{--}.} = +++++.+++++. 
22:01:05 <nooga> hmm
22:01:08 <nooga> nah
22:01:09 <nooga> useless
22:05:38 <lament> anything with a brainfuck-like memory model is likely to be useless
22:05:43 <lament> i.e. not original enough
22:05:51 <nooga> yeah
22:10:55 <nooga> huh
22:11:17 <nooga> nah... stupid again
22:16:37 <ZeroOne> hmm, I found a new esoteric programming language: Nietzsche: http://www.autistici.org/bakunin/
22:18:18 <nooga> heh
22:21:19 <ZeroOne> reminds me of that another one, whatsitsname...
22:22:01 <ZeroOne> not BDAMD
22:22:12 <nooga> ha
22:22:14 <nooga> i know!
22:22:21 <ZeroOne> but Numberix! yes!
22:22:27 <ZeroOne> http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/compilers/numberix/numberix.html
22:22:35 <nooga> befunge-like language but diagonal
22:23:15 <nooga> nah
22:23:18 <nooga> stupid
22:23:39 <lament> oh, Game of Life is another one of those basic concepts
22:23:52 <nooga> ?
22:24:25 <nooga> what do you mean?
22:25:55 <nooga> brb
22:32:02 <ZeroOne> nooga: Conway's Game of Life
22:32:41 <ZeroOne> isn't that a familiar concept to you? fizzie said earlier that a befunge interpreter is often the first thing he does with a new language. Game of Life is mine. :)
22:34:57 <nooga> hmmm
22:34:59 <nooga> yeah
22:35:09 <nooga> ive got an idea
22:35:15 <nooga> brainfuck based
22:35:20 <nooga> funny and useless
22:36:15 <nooga> +++>++++++++++++<[>.<-]
22:36:15 <nooga> nooog gop noooooooooooog pog pop gop non pog gon gog
22:37:05 <nooga> may i paste several lines?
22:38:54 <nooga> o - counter (used where _)
22:38:54 <nooga> n_g +; g_n -; g_p >; p_g <; non .; ooo ,; pop [; gog ]
22:39:01 <nooga> whole
22:44:20 <nooga> ha!
22:44:22 <nooga> goood
22:44:28 <nooga> veryyy good!
22:44:39 <nooga> simple enough to be my first eso lang
22:44:51 <nooga> and then i will think about something more complicated
22:51:25 <nooga> what do you think?
22:53:34 <nooga> hmmmmmmm :(
22:59:50 <nooga> i see
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23:01:24 <nooga> hi Keymaker
23:01:30 <Keymaker> hiya
23:01:48 <nooga> wanna see my useless version of brainfuck? :P
23:02:02 <Keymaker> ok
23:02:07 <Keymaker> go ahead
23:02:56 <nooga> +++>++++++++++++<[>.<-] in brainfuck is equal to:
23:02:56 <nooga> nooog gop noooooooooooog pog pop gop non pog gon gog (in #boob)
23:03:10 <nooga> sharp boob :)
23:03:47 <nooga> stupid, eh?
23:03:54 <Keymaker> hehe :D
23:04:11 <nooga> o - counter (used where _)
23:04:11 <nooga> n_g +; g_n -; g_p >; p_g <; non .; ooo ,; pop [; gog ]
23:05:49 <Keymaker> i made nice idea today, though not telling it yet.. one thing is sure; writing a program will be time consuming.. :)
23:06:10 <nooga> yea
23:09:04 <Keymaker> "14:51:25 <nooga> what do you think?"
23:09:19 <Keymaker> what i've learned, on this channel that won't produce any replies :)
23:09:31 <nooga> like many others -.-
23:09:31 <Keymaker> (though, this was exception)
23:10:16 <fizzie> Reminds me of Ook.
23:10:23 <Keymaker> aaaaaaaaaaaargh
23:10:26 <Keymaker> i hate Ook
23:10:34 <Keymaker> i can't stand it :x
23:11:00 <nooga> this one is more intelligent than ook :)
23:11:10 <nooga> oh
23:11:12 <nooga> i know
23:11:33 <nooga> i,'ll add 'i' it will be equal to 'oo'
23:12:06 <nooga> and 'l' = 'ooooo', and 'u'='oooooooooo'
23:12:09 <nooga> YES
23:12:09 <nooga> !
23:12:19 <nooga> that's it, my first eso lang
23:12:22 <Keymaker> :)
23:13:50 <nooga> niog gop nuig pog pop gop non pog gon gog
23:13:52 <nooga> ha!
23:14:58 <Keymaker> here's sample of one (similar to brainfuck) i've been planning    .;;;; .:; :; .;;;; ,:; ,.; ,.:;
23:15:32 <Keymaker> if i remember correctly (i didn't look at my notes about the instructions), that should get '16' to cell (1)
23:16:08 <nooga> o.0
23:16:15 <Keymaker> basically, this is brainfuck, but with some extra instructions and instructions represented non-easier way
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23:20:42 <nooga> hm
23:21:13 <nooga> after writing #boob interpreter i'll try to write C2bf
23:21:24 <Keymaker> uh oh
23:21:27 <nooga> featuring 16 bit variables!
23:21:29 <Keymaker> gonna be hard task
23:21:33 <Keymaker> really hard
23:21:42 <Keymaker> (and someone here is tryin' it already :))
23:21:43 <nooga> but not whole C :P
23:21:50 <Keymaker> yes
23:21:56 <nooga> only basic functionality
23:22:35 <nooga> fear not! i have dragon's book and idea ;]
23:22:47 <Keymaker> uh.. no idea what those are :P
23:23:43 <Keymaker> (to note; with that "(and someone here is ..." i didn't mean myself, since i really am NOT trying it)
23:25:00 <nooga> hm
23:25:10 <nooga> maybe someone can put bf bot here
23:25:16 <Keymaker> hehe
23:25:19 <Keymaker> guess what?
23:25:24 <Keymaker> i've thought the exact same thing
23:25:27 <nooga> ;)
23:25:29 <Keymaker> although i have no idea how bots work
23:26:11 <nooga> but i have
23:26:12 <Keymaker> but some bot that could execute bf code (and kick us all out because of a dangerous program)
23:26:26 <Keymaker> ..would be cool 
23:26:32 <nooga> ok
23:26:43 <nooga> ill write one tommorow and put on my shell
23:26:57 <Keymaker> hmm, sounds interesting
23:26:58 <nooga> hah -.- perl again
23:27:45 <Keymaker> i'll suggest the "standardish" EOF=0 to make everyone's life easier
23:28:49 <nooga> okay
23:28:56 <nooga> bye now
23:29:00 <Keymaker> bye
23:29:01 <nooga> must go to bed -.-
23:29:06 <Keymaker> good idea
23:29:39 <Keymaker> i think i'll go as well -- i think i realized how to write a quine. <heart attack> ghafhwiu wiageoihgewiho nnngghhhh
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