2005-03-01: 02:12:57 -!- heatsink has joined. 04:10:04 -!- calamari has joined. 07:40:32 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:43:24 -!- calamari has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:48:36 -!- heatsink has quit ("Leaving"). 10:09:16 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 10:51:27 -!- Keymaker has joined. 10:51:34 hi 10:51:54 arke: what's wrong with brainfuck? doing something program or..? 12:40:27 -!- Keymaker has quit. 2005-03-02: 04:19:57 -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:21:42 -!- cpressey has joined. 05:00:41 -!- heatsink has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:18:25 -!- lindi- has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:19:35 -!- lindi- has joined. 09:30:39 -!- heatsink has quit ("Leaving"). 21:16:10 -!- Keymaker has joined. 21:16:35 HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! HI! 21:18:43 teh hies 21:25:28 hi 21:25:44 so.. what's up? 21:31:34 nothing 21:31:35 :) 21:32:09 ok :) 21:33:14 playing a game 21:36:58 what game? 21:56:28 rgh. i is getting tired. must sleep. ZZzzz 21:56:32 bye 21:56:34 -!- Keymaker has quit. 22:14:06 -!- lindi- has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:15:39 -!- lindi- has joined. 2005-03-03: 02:39:47 what 02:40:41 where? 02:40:42 when? 02:40:50 under which circumstances? 02:40:53 who 02:40:54 ? 02:40:55 how? 02:40:57 :D 02:42:37 wtf? 05:26:17 -!- calamari has joined. 07:12:42 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:22:31 I'm selling gmail invites for $5 07:23:20 that's rather low 07:24:48 -!- calamari_ has joined. 07:25:35 buy one :) 07:26:01 by "low" i don't mean the price 07:26:15 oh heh 07:26:21 i mean your personal ethics :) 07:26:24 :) 07:26:33 hey, $5 x 50 = $250 07:26:38 that keeps me alive for a month 07:27:26 :D 07:28:14 you don't need any money to stay alive for a month 07:28:26 well, depending on the month and on your location 07:30:08 :D 07:30:16 I'm living in CA 07:30:28 if i was living back in germany again, i could live in the woods no problem 07:30:31 except the lack of computer 07:30:31 :D 07:41:56 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:41:56 -!- puzzlet has quit (Connection timed out). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:23:34 -!- puzzlet has joined. 09:53:03 -!- calamari_ has quit ("Leaving"). 10:19:56 -!- calamari has joined. 10:42:33 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 11:02:20 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 11:46:40 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:08:09 -!- transmogrify has joined. 12:08:13 hello 12:12:24 -!- fizzie has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:12:28 -!- fizzie_ has joined. 13:05:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:09:29 -!- {^Raven^} has joined. 16:10:20 <{^Raven^}> hi 17:21:52 <{^Raven^}> does anyone know of any games written inbrainfuck 17:32:28 -!- transmogrify has quit ("bye"). 17:59:53 hi 17:59:55 i sure don't 18:00:18 <{^Raven^}> darn 18:00:29 <{^Raven^}> i was hoping to see some examples 18:00:46 <{^Raven^}> guess i'm gonna have to write em myself :( 18:01:31 <{^Raven^}> the supercoder looks like the perfect keyboard for a spoon based machine tho 18:08:26 -!- fizzie_ has changed nick to fizzie. 20:56:55 hehe 20:56:58 games in BF? 20:57:15 You could probably write a console based one by emitting escape codes 20:57:15 :D 20:57:36 wumpus and flip are good candidates. 20:57:52 Or a nice graphical one with bfvga-or-what-was-it-called-again. 20:58:45 <{^Raven^}> yeah, what seems to be most awkward is interpreters geting input a line at a time 20:58:49 <{^Raven^}> instead of a char at a time 20:59:01 <{^Raven^}> would make space-invaders difficult 20:59:04 (bfvga is a DOS-only thing, uses the 320x200x8bit VGA mode with the 64000 bytes of display memory mapped as the brainf*ck array.) 20:59:30 (And if I were to hazard a guess, it probably doesn't do line-buffered input.) 21:01:46 <{^Raven^}> might have to wait until other projects get started 21:02:08 or make your own 21:02:14 takes like 5 minutes to code a BF :) 21:02:58 <{^Raven^}> i'm planning a cgi-aware BF-vm next 21:03:26 <{^Raven^}> when i remember how to program in C again 21:03:56 That's true. Didn't take me very long to write 'befvga' (just like bfvga, except with the display memory mapped as a 320x200-sized befunge93 playfield). Doing graphics with that was a bit too arduous, though. 21:04:19 <{^Raven^}> i'll taka a peek 21:15:01 <{^Raven^}> hey, that's pretty impressive 21:26:30 <{^Raven^}> bfvga does line-buffered input. is there a source release :( 21:32:11 Don't know of one. 2005-03-04: 00:09:07 -!- Keymaker has joined. 00:09:49 arke: who buys gmail accounts anyways..? :p 00:10:21 "23:28:14 you don't need any money to stay alive for a month" 00:10:23 lol 00:10:37 yeah, eating garbage is fun 00:11:28 anyways.. why not living in germany anymore? 00:12:59 {^Raven^}: yeah, even the brainfuck is the game designer's right-hand tool, there aren't many games for it, at least i haven't seen 00:13:24 i should make one, i've planned for long, but never got started on it :) "needs planning" 00:13:40 (i mean never got started on making the game) 00:13:59 <{^Raven^}> i've had a play, need to find a nice 'terp 00:14:31 ? 'terp? 00:14:47 <{^Raven^}> interpreter, virtual machine type thingy 00:14:55 ah, yes.. 00:16:26 <{^Raven^}> got a basic adventure game up and running 00:16:34 <{^Raven^}> just need to figure out a nice parser 00:16:42 neato 00:16:49 hmmm 00:16:55 parser can be a bit hard to do 00:17:07 possible, but hard :) 00:17:58 <{^Raven^}> main concern is speed, i can code in as much flexibility as i want but it'll run like a snail on sleeping tablets 00:18:15 :) 00:18:17 yeah 00:18:52 it can take easily a lot calculation power 00:19:32 we have to wait a few years more to get the cool stuff running in brainfuck :) 00:19:51 nah, just joking.. there's plenty of cool stuff already.. 00:20:05 <{^Raven^}> i've thought about some interesting stuff that be possible but my C coding sucks 00:20:10 Keymaker: parents moved and I was only 13 at the time, so I had to come with. I never wanted to. :/ 00:20:36 arke: ok :\ 00:20:45 and.. 00:21:00 me no good at c either 00:21:06 C sucks :D 00:21:10 yeah 00:21:15 :) 00:21:41 <{^Raven^}> it's about as portable as BF so the seem to be stuck together atm 00:21:56 :) 00:22:41 <{^Raven^}> it would be nice to extend the functionality of BF with an OS abstraction layer without changing the language in any way 00:22:52 indeed 00:23:03 good way to mess up the computer :D 00:23:09 <{^Raven^}> so we could potentially do real file i/o and accept command line options 00:23:14 yeah 00:23:32 eof is a problem today 00:23:54 in 8-bit implementations that i use 00:24:13 <{^Raven^}> i make ppl put an @ at the end of the input file 00:24:57 <{^Raven^}> it makes my life a bit easier and is less implementation dependant 00:25:10 yeah, but what about files that have allkinds of values from 0 to 255? 00:25:24 <{^Raven^}> that's why I reckon we need an abstraction layer 00:25:36 yeah 00:26:09 <{^Raven^}> thus, you want to check for eof so you do something like [-].+++++., 00:26:39 <{^Raven^}> 'terp would recognise that as special command number 5 and write back a byte that gives the EOF 00:26:54 hmm 00:27:08 something like that would be good 00:27:52 not to add any new instructions, but to add more functionality for '.' 00:27:59 <{^Raven^}> you could implement as many special commands as would be useful 00:28:10 yeah 00:28:12 <{^Raven^}> no, I would keep the language itself exactly the same 00:28:14 {^Raven^}: jeffry was working on something like this. 00:28:36 damn, what's his nick again.... caligari, i think? 00:28:43 calamari 00:28:48 :) 00:28:49 that's it, thanks :) 00:29:09 <{^Raven^}> he's a damn fine coder that guy 00:29:13 yah 00:29:24 <{^Raven^}> bfasm is so way above my head... 00:29:39 :) 00:30:13 <{^Raven^}> the beauty of an abstraction layer is that once it is stable, the main interpreter could be written for any esoteric language 00:30:58 <{^Raven^}> do you know if jeffry is still working on his idea for one? 00:31:06 dunno 00:31:55 <{^Raven^}> it's good to know that more than just me might find it useful 00:32:04 :) 00:33:02 brainfuck is optimal for developing some nice software 00:33:07 like.. uhm... 00:33:47 cat :) 00:33:50 {^Raven^}: afaik, he's working on it as a full-fledged operating system. 00:34:03 <{^Raven^}> oh wow! 00:34:17 but the layer is just a protocol, it could be implemented for other os'es... 00:34:31 the useful thing would be to have the same protocol 00:34:50 yeah 00:34:51 dare i say "standardized"...? no, i daren't. :) 00:34:55 :) 00:35:04 btw; anyone knows what this is? 00:35:06 http://martin.egy.nu/BFOS/ 00:35:07 <{^Raven^}> an abstraction layer providing at least similiar functionality to the C library 00:35:53 yeah 00:36:26 and as well, i've never taken any closer look on that bfos, but it's not the calamari's project 00:37:07 <{^Raven^}> it looks like program to write a bootdisk for an esoteric OS 00:37:32 ok 00:38:07 <{^Raven^}> did you like my site Keymaker? this is kindof freaky buy i spotted you in my logs... 00:38:25 hmm.. 00:38:29 what was your site called? 00:38:30 <{^Raven^}> of all the IPs in all the worls and that kind of stuff 00:38:36 <{^Raven^}> jonripley.com 00:38:41 yah 00:38:45 i liked 00:38:55 <{^Raven^}> thx 00:38:57 :) 00:39:46 <{^Raven^}> do you know if Daniel C ever pops on here? 00:39:59 guess have i been waiting... :) 00:40:10 <{^Raven^}> waiting? 00:40:17 yeah 00:40:34 though, not actually 00:40:40 anymore 00:40:49 since there's e-mail :) 00:40:50 <{^Raven^}> ok...now i'm confused 00:41:00 i meant that when i first came to this channel 00:41:14 i because i wanted to chat to dbc "live" :) 00:41:18 but that has never happened 00:41:30 <{^Raven^}> ahh 00:41:37 instead, we've sent plenty of e-mail 00:47:24 as well, according to my luck, if he happens to visit this place sometime, then i'm probably somewhere not here. :\ 00:47:45 <{^Raven^}> cpressey: found the BOS section of his site and it does look interesting, would have never thought of implementing low level disk access and stuff 00:51:01 but.. 00:51:08 i think i'll go to sleep 00:51:15 3 am here 00:51:20 'nite 00:51:21 <{^Raven^}> 1am 00:51:23 <{^Raven^}> nite 00:51:27 -!- Keymaker has left (?). 03:49:46 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:49:29 -!- puzzlet has quit. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:25:54 -!- puzzlet has joined. 10:49:04 -!- dbc has joined. 10:54:04 I just sent you email with a list of comments and suggestions. 10:58:32 -!- sedric has joined. 11:15:33 And now I'm going to sleep, but not before the customary ASCII art fractal. 11:15:45 ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ 11:15:45 ++-++ ++-++ ++-++ ++-++ ++-++ ++-++ ++-++ ++-++ 11:15:45 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 11:15:45 ++-+---+-++ ++-+---+-++ ++-+---+-++ ++-+---+-++ 11:15:55 ++ | | ++ ++ | | ++ ++ | | ++ ++ | | ++ 11:15:55 | | | | | | | | 11:15:55 ++ | | | | ++ ++ | | | | ++ 11:15:55 ++-+---+-------+---+-++ ++-+---+-------+---+-++ 11:16:02 | | | | | | | | | | | | 11:16:03 ++-++ | | ++-++ ++-++ | | ++-++ 11:16:03 ++ ++ | | ++ ++ ++ ++ | | ++ ++ 11:16:03 | | | | 11:16:10 ++ ++ | | | | ++ ++ 11:16:10 ++-++ | | | | ++-++ 11:16:10 | | | | | | | | 11:16:10 ++-+---+-------+---------------+-------+---+-++ 11:16:18 ++ | | | | | | ++ 11:16:18 | | | | | | 11:16:18 ++ | | ++ | | ++ | | ++ 11:16:18 ++-+---+-++ | | ++-+---+-++ 11:16:28 | | | | | | | | | | 11:16:29 ++-++ ++-++ | | ++-++ ++-++ 11:16:29 ++ ++ ++ ++ | | ++ ++ ++ ++ 11:16:29 | | 11:16:38 ++ ++ ++ ++ | | ++ ++ ++ ++ 11:16:38 ++-++ ++-++ | | ++-++ ++-++ 11:16:38 | | | | | | | | | | 11:16:38 ++-+---+-++ | | ++-+---+-++ 11:16:48 ++ | | ++ | | ++ | | ++ 11:16:49 | | | | | | 11:16:49 ++ | | | | | | ++ 11:16:49 ++-+---+-------+---------------+-------+---+-++ 11:16:56 | | | | | | | | 11:16:56 ++-++ | | | | ++-++ 11:16:56 ++ ++ | | | | ++ ++ 11:16:56 | | | | 11:17:03 ++ ++ | | ++ ++ ++ ++ | | ++ ++ 11:17:03 ++-++ | | ++-++ ++-++ | | ++-++ 11:17:03 | | | | | | | | | | | | 11:17:03 ++-+---+-------+---+-++ ++-+---+-------+---+-++ 11:17:10 ++ | | | | ++ ++ | | | | ++ 11:17:10 | | | | | | | | 11:17:10 ++ | | ++ ++ | | ++ ++ | | ++ ++ | | ++ 11:17:10 ++-+---+-++ ++-+---+-++ ++-+---+-++ ++-+---+-++ 11:17:17 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 11:17:18 ++-++ ++-++ ++-++ ++-++ ++-++ ++-++ ++-++ ++-++ 11:17:18 ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ 11:17:34 Good night people. 11:17:44 -!- dbc has quit ("you have no chance to survive make your time."). 11:40:13 -!- puzzlet has quit ("bye"). 13:49:40 -!- fizzie has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:50:26 -!- fizzie has joined. 17:51:54 -!- sedric has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:09:39 -!- lament has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:09:45 -!- lament has joined. 20:09:19 -!- Keymaker has joined. 20:09:33 aaargh.. can't.. be.. true.. 20:10:23 i was away when dbc happened to visit.. 20:10:37 <{^Raven^}> it is almost as if you willed it 20:10:44 ? 20:10:52 <{^Raven^}> to happen 20:10:58 why do you think so? 20:11:36 <{^Raven^}> when you mentioned wanting to see him in here yesterday :) 20:11:41 yeah 20:12:33 i didn't understand your text first, sorry :) 20:14:26 just when i happen to be away the visiting happens.. i could have guessed this 20:15:10 either the way, the ascii art was cool once again :) 20:38:21 hi 20:42:50 hi 20:44:26 <{^Raven^}> hullo 21:10:21 hm.. can't get the idea for a keen 3 mod.. been trying for a month already.. 21:14:13 grrrh 21:14:49 * Keymaker tries to think.. 21:14:57 counterstrike mod for keen 21:14:57 lol 21:15:04 hehe :) 22:12:55 good night.. 22:13:00 -!- Keymaker has quit. 2005-03-05: 00:20:59 -!- fizzie has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 00:22:24 -!- fizzie has joined. 00:27:05 Colorado Springs: A guy walked into a little corner store with a shot gun and demanded all the cash from the cash drawer. After the cashier put the cash in a bag, the robber saw a bottle of scotch that he wanted behind the counter on the shelf. He told the cashier to put it in the bag as well, but he refused and said "Because I don't believe you are over 21." The robber said he was, but the clerk still refused to give it to him because he didn't believe him. At this 00:41:22 -!- heatsink has joined. 03:30:31 <{^Raven^}> nite peeps 03:35:03 nite rave 03:42:18 -!- heatsink has quit ("Leaving"). 04:48:25 -!- cmeme has quit (Ping timeout: 14400 seconds). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 10:23:44 arke: your message is cut at "At this"... 13:25:34 -!- Keymaker has joined. 13:26:10 hi! 13:26:36 good "news", i just rewrote my brainfuck program for calculating digital root 13:27:12 the new version counts the digital root of pi's 10000 first decimals in about 6 seconds, while the old took about 41 seconds 13:27:47 as well, the code's shorter and it uses a lot less memory cells 13:29:06 the code seems to be 69 instructions shorter (401 bytes). almost half of it comes from printing "DIGITAL ROOT: " and new-line 13:30:09 most probably the printing of that text could be made a lot smaller, but i don't really like searching the shortest ways to print text in bf 13:30:53 <{^Raven^}> where does you website live Keymaker? 13:31:17 nonewhere :) 13:31:32 it was at info1.info.tampere.fi/~lhetuhe 13:31:40 but it's not there anymore 13:32:19 i'm planning to buy one cheap hosting, and eventually i do it, once i invent good brainfuck related domain name 13:33:19 (actually there reads on that link that the site is moved, but i just put it there beforehand :)) 13:33:33 the site isn't anywhere, or actaully there even wasn't a brainfuck site yet 13:33:43 (just BFCC site) 13:35:29 anyways: this new version seems to do the job with 2000000000+ executed instructions _less_ than the old version (so you can guess this is a big improvement in the program) 13:35:29 <{^Raven^}> how much server space/bandwidth would you need? 13:35:43 probably 2000kb a month :p 13:36:12 <{^Raven^}> how much file space? 13:36:33 probably not more than 1000kb :) 13:36:46 oops 13:37:12 i meant megabyte 13:38:46 hmmm, or was 1000kb something like megabyte? my brain is ****ed 13:39:03 <{^Raven^}> 1 megabyte is 1024Kb 13:39:08 <{^Raven^}> in real money 13:39:12 ah ok 13:39:34 so the stuff fits easily under one megabyte 13:39:43 but i will buy the site sooner or later 13:39:49 the problem is only the name 13:40:13 can't think of any good domain.. 13:41:25 <{^Raven^}> bracketcommadotbracket.org aka [,.] ? 13:42:02 hehe, that could be fun :) 13:42:20 <{^Raven^}> nice esoteric name and it translates to a typewriter proggy 13:42:32 yeah 13:42:41 although that program would never start :p 13:43:12 plusbracketcommadotbracked.org would do the job 13:43:19 +[,.] 13:44:01 <{^Raven^}> i freely give away that domain name idea 13:44:09 :) 13:45:40 couple of names that i've thought are 13:45:43 nested-loops.org 13:46:24 bf30000.org 13:47:15 <{^Raven^}> i like nested-loops.org 13:47:20 yeah 13:47:29 i like it too, maybe that would be a good choice 13:48:03 <{^Raven^}> or without the dash. nestedloops.org, easier to remember 13:48:15 hmm yeah 13:48:47 also, i can't find that name having any double meanings 13:48:57 (gotta be careful when selecting name..) 13:49:19 it probably doesn't mean anything other than inner/nested loops in a programming language..? 13:50:05 <{^Raven^}> AKAIK that's the only meaning 13:50:15 ah, great :) 13:52:07 hmmm.. can't really decide with or without the dash though.. 13:53:18 and as well, i think the org is better in this than net 13:53:31 <{^Raven^}> both are availiable, go for the one most visually appealing to you 13:53:42 yeah 13:53:52 <{^Raven^}> i'd like to see a for-profit BrainFuck company ;) that would be something 13:54:13 hehe :) 13:59:28 sounds like a plan then, i try to decide with or without the dash.. and then order it. 14:27:45 anyways, i must go now 14:27:51 bye 14:27:53 -!- Keymaker has left (?). 14:44:56 -!- cmeme has joined. 19:45:13 -!- calamari has joined. 19:59:38 -!- Keymaker has joined. 20:03:19 -!- {^Raven^} has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:04:24 -!- {^Raven^} has joined. 20:05:51 hmm 20:08:13 by the way; does anyone know a good mp3 player for linux? like something that's like winamp in windows, like something popular? 20:08:25 or at least very good one 20:28:08 is it just me or is many brainfuck "tutorial" on the net just actually there to try to make its author look "1337 h4x0r" because he can print his alias in this language? :) as well, it seems that many just covers basic things like ++++[>+++++<-] and says "have fun programming!" or limits to only badly made code of brainfuck program that prints out something..? :) 20:29:25 such are the limits of most people's ability to code in brainfuck, i suppose :) 20:29:46 hehe 20:29:57 and i consider myself stupid ;) 20:31:19 heh :) i like to think of it this way: being able to write complex brainfuck programs is not the kind of clever i am :) 20:31:33 :) 20:31:41 ok, that grammar sounded a lot better in my head than it did in text, but you get the idea. 20:31:47 yeah 20:34:14 i can write basic brainfuck stuff like quine, bf interpreter, isbn number validity checker etc.. but i have no idea how to calculate pi ;) so, i'm quite stupid :p 20:34:40 but i hope someday i can get something really awesome done.. ah.. 20:38:30 anyways, this tutorial thing is really disturbing.. i know nobody is that great when starting a new language, but i wouldn't write tutorial if i couldn't do much else than print hello world.. as well, i'm really annoyed many call this language limited or useless :\ 20:40:14 somebody should tell them: "if not interested, go BASIC" :p 20:43:14 i think calculating pi requires more number theory type knowledge than brainfuck programming ability anyway. 20:43:30 hmm, can be true 20:43:54 and number theory i don't have :) 20:44:30 and yeah, a _real_ tutorial would be nice. something that demonstrates that it really is just as computationally powerful as java, or whatever is on most coder's minds these days. 20:44:56 yeah 20:50:26 there should be tutorial to cover more of the cool stuff in brainfuck instead of telling that one can't create something in it (it's just those "tutorial" writers' skills that suck, not the language!) 20:53:59 there should be International Brainfuck Conference :) 21:02:34 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:06:46 idea! i could try thue-morse sequence program next in brainfuck. sounds like a good idea, yet highly possible to code. :) 21:58:13 <{^Raven^}> there are hundreds of BrainFuck tutorials that I have seen on the net. unfortunately it is justthe same 2 tutorials repeated ad nauseum 21:58:58 yeah 22:00:24 <{^Raven^}> theoretically it has been proved that any possible program can be coded in BF. i have a few dozen book here that give examples of how to do lots of interesting things in various machine languages 22:01:04 ah 22:01:10 sounds like a neat books 22:01:15 what they're called? 22:01:20 <{^Raven^}> maybe someone with the coding ability could create something similiar for BF 22:02:02 <{^Raven^}> z80 machine code for humans, arm the dabhand guide, 6502 assembly routines (600pages) 22:02:14 <{^Raven^}> and similiar 22:02:56 ok :) 22:03:24 <{^Raven^}> i wonder if it would be possible to target gcc to cross-compile to bfasm which could then be comiled to BF 22:03:51 uhh.. didn't get it :) 22:04:33 <{^Raven^}> gcc is a C compiler, you can setup different configurations so that it will compile code for whichever system you fancy 22:04:43 ah 22:05:03 so first compiling c to asm and that bfasm changes it to bf code? 22:05:21 <{^Raven^}> yup, preferably calamari's bfasm 22:05:34 that'd be quite neat :) 22:05:51 <{^Raven^}> it would be seriously freaky if someone managed to pull it off 22:05:57 hehe 22:06:13 <{^Raven^}> a nice high-level language that can be compiled to brainfuck 22:06:20 hehe :) 22:06:42 can't see it being impossible :) 22:07:16 <{^Raven^}> kind of defeats the point of programming in pure machine language (aka +-,.[]<>) but IIRC they were using assembly language (aka bfasm) in the fifties 22:07:22 then, naturally, it would be annoying to someone just translate already made c code and tell that he has done md5 program in brainfuck.. :\ 22:07:25 yeah 22:07:49 although even if that kind of program appears, i won't use 22:07:57 the horrific part would be the stack management, i think :) 22:07:59 i want to think at brainfuck level and code on it 22:08:19 and not use any "code-generators" :) 22:08:22 yo 22:08:25 hi all 22:08:28 hi 22:08:30 <{^Raven^}> hey there 22:08:37 hi lament 22:09:18 anyways, as a sidenote: if i ever see another brainfuck-to-c program written in c i just die 22:09:25 i can't stand those 22:09:33 and seen those at least ten today only.. 22:09:51 just wait till calamari finishes his c-to-brainfuck 22:09:58 <{^Raven^}> hehe, everyone writes those, even i have - but at least mine is written in brainfuck 22:10:28 yeah, they should do c-to-brainfuck as calamari (as lament just said :)) 22:10:36 that'll be quite neat 22:10:52 <{^Raven^}> i wouldn't be suprised if he wasn;t already working on it 22:14:16 <{^Raven^}> IMHO we all need to find a way to take esoteric languages to new heights of usefulness 22:14:27 yeah 22:14:37 there is no point in "normal" languages 22:14:51 :) i'll select bf! 22:14:54 {^Raven^}: usefulness? 22:15:19 <{^Raven^}> a project i'm working on 22:15:33 :) 22:16:05 <{^Raven^}> which is designed for all esoteric languages, not just brainfuck 22:16:10 since there isn't a reason why the project should be coded in c++ instead of brainfuck, so.... 22:16:22 what is designed? 22:16:26 {^Raven^}: explain 22:16:32 yea 22:17:06 <{^Raven^}> hmmm, i wonder if i should commit myself, i know it's possible but it's still in the design stage 22:17:24 commit to explaining? 22:17:29 like calamari's eso-os? 22:17:30 :) 22:17:38 i sense something like that 22:17:46 <{^Raven^}> i hope to introduce a paradigm shift in the way esoteric languages can be used 22:17:55 ah 22:18:04 that sounds pretty interesting :) 22:18:32 <{^Raven^}> all my BF programs are already executable on the Unix command line which was the first step 22:19:15 <{^Raven^}> ./HelloWorld.b and I already have pure BrainFuck scripts running in my CGI bin 22:19:23 <{^Raven^}> but IMHO that's not enough 22:19:43 :) 22:20:49 <{^Raven^}> i want to be able to generate a dynamic website in BF without needing mod_bf 22:20:58 hmmm 22:21:07 (what's mod_bf?) 22:21:08 like #!/usr/local/bin/bf ? 22:21:23 except make some wrapper that strips out the first line of text 22:22:03 <{^Raven^}> mod_bf is an apache module which you can use to make dynamic sites, you can pass parameters in the URL which are passed as input to a BF program 22:22:06 <{^Raven^}> i don't use it 22:22:39 mod_bf is kind of lame from what i hear 22:22:42 i see 22:22:50 well, wouldn't some php script work? 22:22:54 <{^Raven^}> it has some severe security implications 22:23:57 <{^Raven^}> PHP would probably work fine, same with perl/java/etc but I'd prefer to use plain BF scripts 22:24:15 <{^Raven^}> with the #!/usr/bin/bf header - of course :) 22:24:21 -!- calamari has joined. 22:25:04 <{^Raven^}> hi calamari 22:25:10 hi 22:25:20 (this channel is strangely active today :)) 22:25:30 yo calamari :) 22:27:11 calamari: we were just talking about you 22:27:14 calamari: how you never do anything :P 22:41:08 hmm.. zzZz.. i'll go to sleep. been fun today here :) keep fillin' the logs! 22:41:18 <{^Raven^}> nite 22:41:19 nite 22:41:21 -!- Keymaker has left (?). 22:45:31 <{^Raven^}> calamari, i like your site, you've got some really interesting stuff there 22:47:49 <{^Raven^}> BFASM is a very impressive piece of software 22:52:36 {^Raven^}: is calamari's EsoAPI like what you had in mind? 22:52:54 <{^Raven^}> similiar but completely different 22:53:35 how so? 22:56:12 <{^Raven^}> the API interface will be almost the same but with a different range of functionality 22:57:01 <{^Raven^}> more suited to day-to-day programming tasks 22:57:36 hmm. well, it could be extended, obviously. 22:57:47 my criticism of it as it stands is that it's not quite general enough. 22:59:11 <{^Raven^}> and I want to make something that can be applied to every esoteric language, including malbolge - but i'll not be writing the demonstration code for that one 22:59:48 right, that's what i meant. 23:00:03 having the return code appear in a memory location isn't general enough, for example. 23:00:13 you might not have memory locations :) 23:00:19 it should appear on the input channel... 23:01:09 <{^Raven^}> both could be available 23:02:51 well, there's an issue of opacity. it would be nice for the layer to be able to work with existing interpreters without modifying them, meaning, you couldn't play with the memory locations directly anyway. 23:03:59 <{^Raven^}> with the free availiability of interpreter source code adding functionality to any interpreter should be trivial 23:07:47 whens the next BF competition? 23:08:39 {^Raven^}: that's still not quite general enough for my taste. 23:17:30 but, until i write something up, my taste is a moot point :) 23:17:35 i'll write something up. 23:18:16 <{^Raven^}> what are you thinking of? 23:24:28 like EsoAPI, but more general. a layer that lives between the i/o and the os, that translates special input/output to/from the program, into system calls. 23:24:54 <{^Raven^}> that is exactly what i am coding 23:30:50 cool. 23:35:38 <{^Raven^}> now i've said it in public i hope no one steals it 23:35:39 <{^Raven^}> :) 23:36:20 <{^Raven^}> although you could say i took the idea from calamari, i found EsoAPI afterwards 23:37:16 hmm, i don't think of it that way. it's essentially a protocol; it _should_ be public. 23:37:54 if the internet didn't have peer-reviewed rfc's, the world would be a mess :) 23:38:07 of course, this is esoteric programming, so you could easily make a counter argument... 23:38:30 that things should be as obscure as possible ;) 23:41:17 <{^Raven^}> I'd like to make the OS abstraction layer as clear as possible. The languages using it are obscure enough already 23:53:03 -!- heatsink has joined. 2005-03-06: 00:01:48 <{^Raven^}> yay...it works :) 00:06:00 what does? 00:35:41 <{^Raven^}> >+>++++++++++<[<[-].+.+.>>.<+] prints hex of numbers 1 to 255 00:36:02 :) 00:37:30 <{^Raven^}> called project easel atm 00:41:12 this isn't branfuck? 00:41:39 looked like bf to me. 00:41:49 <{^Raven^}> it is bf 00:42:03 ok, what's project easel? 00:42:27 <{^Raven^}> OS abstraction layer for esoteric languages 00:44:16 deliciously ironic. 01:05:23 when is the next BF contest, if any? :) 01:05:36 you mean the sourceforge thing? 01:06:25 <{^Raven^}> lament: was that to me or arke? 01:06:34 lament: do you mean me or raven? 01:06:41 you 01:06:42 eh, lol 01:06:45 which one 01:06:45 lol 01:06:47 you 01:06:48 <{^Raven^}> rotflmao 01:06:59 lol 01:07:01 ARKE OR RAVEN 01:07:02 :D 01:07:06 you 01:07:21 the green one 01:07:22 me, arje? 01:07:25 arke*? 01:07:41 NO 01:07:42 yes 01:07:53 * arke slaps lament ;) 01:08:03 * {^Raven^} 's brain turns to mush 01:08:15 lament: please say a name, ARKE or RAVEN 01:08:29 a name, ARKE or RAVEN 01:08:47 <{^Raven^}> ...well this is an esoteric chat room after all... 01:09:07 Your Highness Arke 01:09:22 Doth thou mean the noble Sourceforge site? 01:10:49 lament: I am not sure of which you speak. 01:10:51 *Dost 01:11:05 lament: I saw 2 BF contests on cristofs site 01:11:14 so i figured there'll probably be more 01:11:15 :D 01:25:46 * calamari wakes up 01:27:36 lament: you're right.. I only get the bf urge every once in a while.. but when I do, usually something fun comes of it 01:28:27 and I squeezed every last byte out of that boot sector :) 01:43:41 <{^Raven^}> >.++.--.<.+.-.>[-]>++++++++[<+++++++++++++>-]<.<.++.-.+[->.<].[-]++++++++++. 01:43:56 <{^Raven^}> display 'h' if the -h switch has been passed on the command line :D 01:55:39 ok, i wrote something up. 01:55:43 http://catseye.webhop.net/projects/pesoix/doc/pesoix.html 02:16:22 cool :) 02:19:18 <{^Raven^}> sweet :) 02:19:28 <{^Raven^}> I've knocked up a page for you to link to 02:19:30 <{^Raven^}> http://jonripley.com/easel/ 02:21:33 ok, cool! i've added it. 02:22:35 <{^Raven^}> this is pretty darn cool! :D 02:22:36 <{^Raven^}> thx 02:22:37 how will the overlapping specs be sorted out? 02:23:38 <{^Raven^}> That's an interesting question 02:24:28 yeah 02:24:48 i don't know yet 02:25:32 <{^Raven^}> under Easel there are currently 65280 possible unique API calls 02:27:07 well, EsoAPI has the first few 'non banked' commands. Easel has (so far) banks 01, 02, and 03 (which conflict with EsoAPI). and i threw in bank 10 02:27:10 (all in hex) 02:28:19 there could in theory be an unlimited number of api calls, if one of the banks admits sub-banks (and one of those sub-banks admits sub-sub-banks, etc) 02:29:23 <{^Raven^}> in theory it is possibe, but whatever the final depth is, I would like all API sections to be as deep. 02:30:23 <{^Raven^}> I could allocate EsoAPI a sub-block of calls but I don't know that I can add low level disk access and keep portability 02:30:45 well, i'd like all the 'common' api sections to be only 1 bank deep, and have anything deeper reserved for 'vendor extensions' :) 02:31:35 the low-level disk access doesn't have to be real... it could be emulated. or more simply, those commands could just be reserved for EsoAPI 02:32:06 since the low-level stuff is mostly useful for booting anyway. 02:32:25 <{^Raven^}> yes, ideally I would like to have them as one specification 02:33:23 i worry that calamari's boot block doesn't have enough space left in it to parse a bank number :) 02:33:57 <{^Raven^}> lets say that I if I use banks 1-9, banks 10-19 could be reserved for the main development team and banks 20-255 would be allocated on a block-by-block basis to different vendors 02:35:09 <{^Raven^}> or even make the vendor blocks another level deep, so each vendor had 65536 calls available 02:35:21 <{^Raven^}> that would be easy to cod 02:35:23 <{^Raven^}> e 02:38:17 <{^Raven^}> hmmm, this could work... If the user is boots into BFOS they have calamari's current EsoAPI calls available. If they then issue API call 00h 09h it switches to the easel API (now part of EsoAPI) 02:39:26 <{^Raven^}> and from Easel (which they are now in) they issue 00h 09h 01h and that switches them back to the low-level EsoAPI 02:40:04 <{^Raven^}> but, if a user is running a PESOIX enabled interpreter then they only have the Easel functionality available and all low-level EsoAPI calls are emulated 02:40:10 <{^Raven^}> does that make any sense? 02:41:10 hmmm, a modal api :) actually, that probably makes the most sense. and it's even ugly enough to be kind of esoteric! 02:41:22