2005-04-01:

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03:51:14 <lament> what the hell is going on with freenode
04:16:41 <Tefad> lilo is being a dumbass, as usual
04:16:44 <Tefad> hi lilo!
05:28:00 <lament> haha
05:31:08 <Tefad> i dislike the presence of chanserv btw
05:31:12 <Tefad> there's no point
05:31:28 <Tefad> and it just gives them means to peak at our conversation if they so choose
05:31:52 <Tefad> unless clog is a logger to a webpage
05:31:53 <Tefad> then uh
05:31:55 <Tefad> yeah..
05:31:59 * Tefad stabs violently
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09:01:45 <matricks> yo cpressey, the funge-98 specification doesn't say how wrapping is done if you got a ip delta like (10, 3)
09:02:53 <matricks> when |dx| or |dy| becomes bigger then 1, wrapping becomes weird
09:04:25 <matricks> erh.. nevermind
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10:44:47 <DMM> evening.. anyone awake?
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10:47:12 <Keymaker> DMM: evenin'. i'm still awake, and it's 13:50 here!
10:47:13 <DMM> hey
10:47:18 <Keymaker> hi
10:47:26 <DMM> heh
10:47:37 <DMM> I just uploaded two brand new esoteric languages to my web site
10:47:40 <Keymaker> although i have slept the night between that :p
10:47:41 <Keymaker> ah
10:47:43 <Keymaker> hey
10:47:50 <Keymaker> your name sounds familiar!
10:48:00 <Keymaker> you're the one that had that site?
10:48:02 <DMM> it does?
10:48:04 <DMM> http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/
10:48:06 <Keymaker> with that artistic language?
10:48:09 <DMM> yeah
10:48:12 <Keymaker> ah yes
10:48:16 <Keymaker> this is it. :)
10:48:19 <DMM> the new ones are Petrovich and ZOMBIE
10:48:29 <Keymaker> i'll check them out
10:48:49 <DMM> the first is a joke, really, but the second could be used to write real programs
10:49:03 <Keymaker> :) interesting description..
10:51:15 <Keymaker> "The user asked Petrovich to do something with a soft porn file, and Petrovich responded by deleting the file. The user did not want this to happen, so punishes Petrovich." :p
10:51:33 <DMM> :-)
10:58:18 <Keymaker> strange language, that zombie
10:58:19 <Keymaker> :)
11:00:32 <DMM> yes :-)
11:00:38 <DMM> that's the point :-0
11:00:44 * matricks is awake
11:01:08 <Keymaker> yeah
11:01:12 <DMM> aha, another victim for my new weirdness
11:01:48 <matricks> http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/zombie.html
11:01:48 <matricks> wtf
11:01:54 <DMM> heh
11:03:03 <matricks> http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/lenpeg.html
11:03:08 <matricks> soooooo bad :)
11:04:18 <DMM> thank you, thank you
11:05:14 <Keymaker> :) anyways, gentlemen, i'm afraid i have to go, i'm going to get new speakers for this computer
11:05:36 <Keymaker> since the current ones suck
11:05:45 <Keymaker> :)
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11:08:24 <matricks> DMM: btw, I've started to move to Befunge-98 in Fungus
11:11:50 <DMM> is that the 7-dimensional one?
11:12:04 <DMM> I'd like to see you debug that :-)
11:12:36 <matricks> what?
11:12:37 <matricks> no
11:12:43 <matricks> Befunge-98 is 2D
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15:48:57 <Keymaker> hi
15:49:15 <Keymaker> the buy-new-speakers mission was succesful :)
15:49:20 <Keymaker> ah..
15:59:36 <matricks> goodie! :)
15:59:44 <Keymaker> yah
16:02:01 <matricks> and I'm home form work.. yay \o/
16:02:06 * matricks is tired
16:04:38 <Keymaker> :\
16:04:47 <Keymaker> where do you work, btw?
16:05:15 <matricks> Avalanche Studios
16:05:41 <Keymaker> what does it do?
16:05:49 <matricks> games
16:05:51 <Keymaker> ah
16:05:54 <Keymaker> i guessed :)
16:06:01 <Keymaker> (in my mind..)
16:06:13 <Keymaker> seems like a fun job
16:06:19 <matricks> ye
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16:32:23 <Keymaker> hmmm
16:32:50 <Keymaker> hm
16:32:52 <Keymaker> :\
16:33:05 <Keymaker> yikes
16:33:06 <Keymaker> gota!
16:33:07 <Keymaker> go
16:33:07 <Keymaker> !
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20:24:12 <Keymaker> rrgh
20:31:36 <Keymaker> nobody's here..
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2005-04-02:

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10:14:50 <bNk6i6l3lBeZrT72> hi!
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2005-04-03:

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2005-04-04:

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06:10:51 <calamari> hi graue
06:17:34 <graue> hello
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11:09:12 <graue> hello, kipple
11:09:26 <kipple> hey
11:09:55 <graue> are you named after the kipple programming language, or is it named after you?
11:10:07 <kipple> both I guess ;)
11:10:18 <graue> great
11:10:55 <kipple> have you tried it?
11:11:59 <graue> sort of
11:26:18 <graue> i am writing an interpreter for it
11:26:42 <graue> should using ? on an empty stack be an error, or just a nop?
11:47:44 <kipple> nop
11:48:12 <kipple> popping a value of an empty should return 0
12:06:09 <graue> so far my interpreter seems to be able to run the hello world examples correctly
12:06:15 <graue> i'll be back later
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12:07:08 <matricks> kipple seams.. easy
12:07:35 <matricks> kipple: I guess you have tried befunge
12:07:52 <kipple> yeah, it's much easier than brainfuck or befunge
12:08:03 <matricks> I'm a heavy fan of befunge
12:08:06 <matricks> like the concept
12:08:18 <matricks> kipple: http://www.teepop.net/fungus/
12:08:40 <matricks> my Befunge-93 (moving to 98) intepreter, editor and debugger :)
12:09:05 <kipple> wow. looks great
12:09:29 <matricks> a weekend of insperation lead to that program :)
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20:11:46 <Keymaker> hi
20:12:33 <Keymaker> graue: welcome to channel and your work with the kipple interpreter sounds cool!
20:12:41 <Keymaker> can't wait to get testin' it someday
20:14:36 <Keymaker> kipple: kipple's a lot harder than brainfuck or befunge! :p
20:16:37 <Keymaker> although fun too
20:16:56 <Keymaker> although i haven't got much of chance trying it
20:17:16 <Keymaker> the idea of non-realtime input and output is good
20:20:39 <Keymaker> i have kipple fever now.. hurry with the interpreter graue! :)
20:36:34 <kipple> can't you use the java interpreter?
20:36:54 <Keymaker> it crashes sometimes
20:37:03 <kipple> it does?
20:37:09 <Keymaker> on browser (as mentioned by someone)
20:37:10 <kipple> you mean the applet?
20:37:13 <Keymaker> yes
20:37:14 <kipple> ah, yes
20:37:30 <kipple> if it enters an infinite loop it stops working...
20:37:39 <Keymaker> yeah
20:37:49 <kipple> I recommend the command line version
20:38:21 <Keymaker> yes
20:38:32 <Keymaker> but couldn't get it working after all
20:38:34 <Keymaker> :\
20:38:39 <kipple> that's strange
20:38:45 <Keymaker> not at all
20:38:46 <Keymaker> i suck
20:38:56 <kipple> what went wrong?
20:39:08 <Keymaker> i just don't understand stuff, sorry
20:39:18 <Keymaker> i mean that i hadn't some java stuff or somethging
20:39:22 <Keymaker> can't remember
20:39:38 <Keymaker> that's why i'm waiting for this new interpreter ;)
20:41:57 <Keymaker> now i remember what i was about to ask:
20:42:13 <Keymaker> is the " " string stuff a language feature or only interpreter stuff?
20:42:20 <Keymaker> so, should it be used on codes?
20:42:35 <kipple> it's not really part of the languange, no
20:42:41 <Keymaker> ok
20:42:47 <kipple> just for convenience
20:42:57 <Keymaker> ok
20:43:13 <Keymaker> then i won't use it, never
20:43:18 <Keymaker> :)
20:43:55 <Keymaker> but.. i think i'll be going. good night
20:44:01 <kipple> good night
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2005-04-05:

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09:47:13 -!- Keymaker has set topic: Logical Brainfuck Competition; http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1249789&forum_id=201037.
09:47:32 <Keymaker> i changed the topic to point to the topic with the confirmed rules
09:47:52 <Keymaker> must go :\
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15:25:06 <Keymaker> hi
15:25:31 <Keymaker> kipple: is comment '#' in kipple interpreter feature or language feature?
15:28:18 <kipple> umm. I guess it's a language feature... is that important?
15:28:27 <Keymaker> well yes :)
15:28:48 <Keymaker> you should say it clearer somewhere, that people are allowed to add comments to their codes ;)
15:29:38 <kipple> good point. It isn't in the spec at all.... :(
15:30:08 <kipple> guess I forgot
15:30:16 <Keymaker> ok
15:31:21 <kipple> no I didn't :)
15:31:37 <kipple> " the proper way to add comments is by using the # character. Anything between a # and an End-of-line character is removed before execution"
15:31:51 <Keymaker> yes
15:31:59 <kipple> could have been clearer I guess
15:32:04 <Keymaker> yes
15:32:08 <Keymaker> i was just about to say that
15:32:20 <Keymaker> that i wasn't sure if it meant it was interpreter-feature or language
15:32:41 <kipple> yes, I can see that
15:33:33 <kipple> I'll fix it some time....
15:33:39 <Keymaker> ok
15:34:01 <kipple> nice that someone actually cares :)
15:34:07 <Keymaker> :)
15:34:56 <Keymaker> i try to get ready for it when graue releases the interpreter :)
15:35:40 <kipple> maybe it's time to sit down and finish the next version of kipple........
15:35:49 <Keymaker> hm?
15:35:52 <Keymaker> next version?
15:36:21 <Keymaker> it's turing complete and minimal already!
15:36:27 <kipple> I have a half-finished update which adds support for loading code modules
15:37:09 <kipple> but of course, that makes it less minimal
15:37:13 <kipple> :(
15:37:18 <Keymaker> noooooooo!
15:37:29 <Keymaker> what does that do?
15:37:34 <Keymaker> that loading code modules
15:37:51 <kipple> you can define custom stacks
15:37:55 <Keymaker> noo!
15:38:00 <Keymaker> i don't suggest adding
15:38:01 <Keymaker> it
15:38:11 <kipple> like this: r:"customstack"
15:38:13 <Keymaker> or at least make it kipple2 then
15:38:17 <Keymaker> yeah
15:38:17 <kipple> yeah
15:38:28 <Keymaker> but not add it to original kipple, please!!
15:38:53 <Keymaker> for once there is minimal and strange language (kipple) with not too many instructions.. don't stuff it
15:38:58 <Keymaker> :)
15:38:59 <kipple> on the positive side, it will remove the need for the @ stack (which is an abomination) as a language feature
15:39:39 <Keymaker> how that works, by the way..
15:39:50 <Keymaker> will the output be read from @ stack before o stack?
15:39:57 <Keymaker> that isn't very clear..
15:40:08 <Keymaker> aarg
15:40:10 <Keymaker> nevermind
15:40:15 <Keymaker> i didn't read it properly
15:40:36 <kipple> it's handy, but doesn't really fit in
15:40:46 <Keymaker> yeah
15:41:28 <kipple> so the next version will add one operator and remove the special stack @
15:41:30 <kipple> not too bad
15:41:37 <Keymaker> ok
15:41:43 <kipple> but I'll probably call it bloated kipple or something :)
15:41:49 <Keymaker> and the one operator is that custom stack?
15:41:57 <kipple> the : operator
15:42:06 <Keymaker> ok
15:42:25 <Keymaker> it's kinda like naming variables, then..
15:42:37 <kipple> which lets you load custom stacks from a dll/so, a java class or a kipple file
15:42:54 <Keymaker> :)
15:43:08 <kipple> and then you can do ANYTHING with kipple :)
15:43:14 <Keymaker> :)
15:44:53 <Keymaker> by the way, question about the + operator; so, if there are values [8 4 3] in stack b, will the code b+2 cause it to have values [8 4 5] or [8 4 3 5]?
15:45:50 <kipple> the last one
15:45:57 <Keymaker> ok
15:47:04 <Keymaker> and this would be a way to clear that stack: 0>b?  , right?
15:47:09 <kipple> this might make things clearer (the operator handling code):
15:47:17 <kipple> switch(operator) { 
15:47:17 <kipple>       case '<': operand1.push(operand2.pop());                 
15:47:17 <kipple>                 break; 
15:47:17 <kipple>       case '>': operand2.push(operand1.pop());                 
15:47:17 <kipple>                 break; 
15:47:17 <kipple>       case '-': operand1.push(operand1.peek() - operand2.pop()); 
15:47:19 <kipple>                 break; 
15:47:21 <kipple>       case '+': operand1.push(operand1.peek() + operand2.pop()); 
15:47:23 <kipple>                 break; 
15:47:25 <kipple>       case '?': if (operand1.peek()==0) operand1.clear();                   
15:47:27 <kipple>                 break; 
15:47:29 <kipple>       case '(': jump = operand2.empty();  
15:47:31 <kipple>                 break; 
15:47:33 <kipple>       case ')': jump = !loopOperator.operand2.empty();       
15:47:35 <kipple>                 break; 
15:47:37 <kipple>     }
15:47:41 <kipple> yes, that is correct
15:47:46 <Keymaker> ok
15:48:49 <Keymaker> so the only way to basically delete one value from stack is to move it to some other stack (and clear that stack where moved if one likes to)
15:48:59 <Keymaker> smart!
15:49:06 <kipple> yes.
15:49:54 <kipple> I usually use one of the stacks for this purpose only
15:50:00 <Keymaker> yeah
15:50:14 <Keymaker> how big are the stacks?
15:50:30 <kipple> not sure
15:50:33 <Keymaker> ok
15:50:36 <kipple> they are standard java stacks
15:50:40 <Keymaker> ok
15:50:41 <kipple> which means BIG
15:50:44 <Keymaker> ok
15:50:46 <Keymaker> :)
15:51:41 <Keymaker> and in empty stack this code a+a would cause the stack have value [ 0 ] ?
15:52:50 <kipple> yes
15:52:50 <Keymaker> and a+b have the same [ 0 ] in a stack and nothing in b
15:53:28 <kipple> if both are empty at first you mean? if so, yes
15:53:36 <Keymaker> yes
15:53:42 <Keymaker> ok cheers
15:53:47 <Keymaker> there were questions i had in mind
15:54:04 <Keymaker> i'll annoy you later if i think of some others :)
15:54:22 <kipple> please do :)
15:55:18 <Keymaker> by the way, could the web applet perhaps have some counter for every loop, that if something loop is executed, let's say more than 2000000 times it would quit and assume the program got stuck in infinite loop?
15:55:37 <Keymaker> that could be one way to solve the problem, 
15:55:47 <Keymaker> and probably wouldn't slow too much
15:55:49 <kipple> the best way to handle it is to run it in a separate thread.
15:56:00 <kipple> I'll do that next time I update it
15:56:06 <Keymaker> ok :)
15:56:10 <Keymaker> do that soon!
15:57:17 <kipple> kipple is something I work on when I get inspiration. and inspiration is closely related to feedback :)
15:57:33 <Keymaker> i see
15:57:40 <Keymaker> have you got much feedback?
15:57:45 <kipple> so something will probably happen soon :)
15:57:50 <Keymaker> ok :)
15:58:03 <kipple> not much until lately. I guess it helped join this irc-channel.....
15:58:16 <Keymaker> yeah
16:18:08 <Keymaker> ah, i just realized that way to dublicate a value in stack is to add zero to it
16:18:09 <Keymaker> o<65 o+0
16:24:46 <kipple> yes. adding zero is (unlike in most other languages) quite useful :)
16:24:53 <Keymaker> :)
17:01:50 <Keymaker> ahhh
17:01:56 <Keymaker> i made a quine in kipple
17:02:02 <Keymaker> i sent it for you kipple
17:02:09 <Keymaker> you can put it on your site if you want to
17:02:20 <Keymaker> (credit 'Keymaker' if you want to ;))
17:02:48 <Keymaker> i know it's ugly, and i could make a better but i'm too lazy to think so i just programmed
17:02:59 <Keymaker> i'll make some shorter later, but not today
17:03:18 <Keymaker> i sent it to that address you have on kipple page..
17:03:54 <kipple> nice :)
17:04:00 <Keymaker> cheers
17:04:18 <Keymaker> it was actually my first kipple program
17:04:31 <Keymaker> hehe
17:08:50 <Keymaker> did you try it?
17:09:14 <kipple> yeah. It's great. I'll just have to update the web site now :)
17:09:20 <Keymaker> :) ok
17:26:27 <Keymaker> when you update the page you could also strip hello world program by one instruction by using "108>o<108" instead. :) anyways, i must go now, good luck
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17:34:43 <graue> is the misspelling in the name of the language wierd, intentional?
17:35:05 <graue> i thought it was supposed to be a fusing of 'weird' and 'wired,' but someone at http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TheWierdLanguage disagrees
17:38:15 <graue> oh, i'm right (according to http://web.archive.org/web/20030121083523/www.catseye.mb.ca/esoteric/wierd/doc/wierdspec.txt)
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19:34:23 <Keymaker> hi
19:40:38 <graue> hello
19:40:43 <Keymaker> hi
19:40:50 <graue> you said that already
19:40:56 <Keymaker> yes
19:41:02 <Keymaker> i'm sorry :p
19:41:10 <graue> it's awkward for me to respond to 'hi,' only for you to say it again
19:41:15 <graue> apology accepted, though
19:41:19 <Keymaker> :)
19:41:36 <Keymaker> how's going?
19:41:45 <graue> all right
19:41:50 <Keymaker> that's good
19:41:55 <graue> i haven't worked on the kipple interpreter since yesterday
19:42:01 <Keymaker> ok
19:42:16 <Keymaker> what language you're using, by the way?
19:42:21 <graue> C++
19:42:26 <Keymaker> ok
19:42:32 <graue> i've never done anything in C++ before
19:42:40 <Keymaker> ah
19:42:44 <graue> the main idea was to learn C++ by making an interpreter for some stack-based language
19:42:57 <Keymaker> this sounds like a good project then
19:43:02 <Keymaker> hope it's not too hard
19:43:07 <Keymaker> (would be for me!)
19:43:33 <Keymaker> have you programmed other than C++ before?
19:44:10 <DoutorJivago> eww C++
19:44:14 <graue> yeah, C
19:44:18 <Keymaker> ok
19:44:33 <graue> that's what i think of it too, DoutorJivago
19:44:56 <graue> but it's necessary to use a certain GUI library i want to use
19:45:00 <DoutorJivago> it's the evil language of doom
19:45:15 <graue> i thought that language was Malbolge
19:45:17 <Keymaker> mh. i thought that was malbolge's definition :)
19:45:19 <Keymaker> lol
19:45:22 <Keymaker> too slow fingers
19:46:29 <graue> i sort of got distracted and now i'm trying to figure out iag, a small undocumented language at http://sange.fi/~atehwa/small-esoteric/
19:47:13 <Keymaker> hmm
19:49:04 <graue> so far i have this: http://illegal.coffeestops.net:3703/iag.txt
19:49:18 <graue> from scanning the interpreter's source
19:50:20 <Keymaker> hmmm
19:51:04 <Keymaker> seems quite non-easy
19:51:10 <graue> yeah
20:02:57 <Keymaker> i'll go out from irc now. bye. good luck with the interpreter and iag
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20:25:16 <graue> input.i reads eight characters from stdin and stores them in the first 8 memory cells in reverse order

2005-04-06:

00:02:35 -!- graue has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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00:47:00 <graue> i'm stuck on loop.i
00:47:51 <graue> even after tracing it by hand three times, i can't understand why it does what it does when actually interpreted (prints characters 0-255 in a loop)
00:48:10 <graue> starting at 1
00:49:07 <graue> seems i always make some kind of mistake while trying to follow it
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01:55:43 <graue> hello, heatsink
01:55:54 <heatsink> hello, graue
02:08:17 <graue> have you played with the esoteric language 'iag' any?
02:13:23 <heatsink> nope
02:18:52 <heatsink> heh, overloaded operator performs 3 unrelated functions.
02:22:36 <graue> yes
02:22:48 <graue> i've been trying in vain to figure out how loop.i works
02:23:24 <graue> tracing it by hand, but it seems i keep messing up, because i end up with illegal stuff like memory underflows, when what the program actually does, is print characters 0-255 repeatedly, starting with character 1
02:23:25 <heatsink> good luck on that.
02:23:29 <graue> thank you
02:23:37 <graue> what will you be doing while i continue to trace loop.i?
02:24:28 <heatsink> writing a program to parse and error-check a text representation of a control flow graph.
02:26:03 <graue> sounds like fun
02:28:32 <heatsink> It's a novel experience.
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06:53:42 <graue> hello, calamari
07:39:09 <calamari> hi graue
07:39:16 <calamari> whatcha up to?
07:43:37 <graue> trying to make a new subdomain at freedns
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07:55:05 <calamari> any luck?
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08:02:43 <graue> finally, yes
08:03:22 <graue> the list of domains is incredibly long and froze firefox for 2 minutes trying to load the page before i gave up and stopped it (it was still at the letter 'a')
08:03:55 <graue> then i spent about a half hour trying to do it in lynx, which failed to load pages most of the time for no reason
08:04:05 <graue> then i realized i can make it show only my domains and did that
08:06:32 <graue> you played with the 'iag' language at all?
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08:22:37 <calamari_> nope, is it cool?
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08:29:46 <graue> yes, it is very difficult and cool
08:30:06 <graue> it has three basic instructions, one of which does three unrelated things
08:30:29 <graue> i found it at http://sange.fi/~atehwa/small-esoteric/ and my discoveries so far are at http://illegal.coffeestops.net:3703/iag.txt
10:38:48 <graue> i'm going to do something really cool now :)
10:40:20 <graue> go on, ask me what it is
10:42:29 <fizzie> I would, but have to go eat lunch. ->
10:42:59 <graue> have fun then
10:43:12 <fizzie> Have fun with the really cool thing, whatever it is.
10:44:10 <graue> well, i noticed there's a huge amount of esoteric language information at wikipedia, but a lot of it is not really of general interest enough to properly be there
10:44:18 <graue> so i set up a new esolang wiki and i'm going to copy everything
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11:48:15 <Keymaker> hehe, good luck with esowiki graue :)
11:48:19 <Keymaker> that's actually quite neat idea
11:48:33 <Keymaker> like some place where would be detailed info from those languages
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12:04:10 <Keymaker> hiya
12:05:25 <calamari> yeah.. someone else was going to put up an esowiki, but they never finished the job :)
12:05:47 <Keymaker> kipple: what program a-500 should do. let's assume there is for example value [1] in the stack.
12:05:59 <calamari> that'll be really cool
12:06:09 <Keymaker> iirc the interpreter hadn't any underflow stuff
12:06:11 <Keymaker> yeah
12:18:38 <calamari> bbl
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12:19:16 <kipple> then the stack should be [1  -499]
12:19:29 <Keymaker> so
12:19:36 <Keymaker> there can be negative values as well?
12:19:40 <kipple> yes
12:19:43 <Keymaker> ah
12:38:09 <Keymaker> must go
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17:26:33 <Keymaker> yo
17:28:03 <Keymaker> why does google get me different results if i'm using firefox in windows and opera in linux when searching "#esoteric logs"?
17:32:21 <kipple> no idea
17:46:42 <Keymaker> yeah
19:00:31 <Keymaker> yes, my new quine record!
19:00:40 <Keymaker> (in brainfuck)
19:00:49 <Keymaker> 1251 instructions
19:09:28 <cpressey> Keymaker: i've noticed if i reload google's result pages, i get different results.  i think it randomizes them slightly
19:11:49 <Keymaker> ok
19:12:02 <Keymaker> oh, and it is 1184 instructions!
19:12:22 <Keymaker> i looked at wrong number
19:12:33 <Keymaker> i'm getting nearer 1000 limit that is my objective :)
19:15:57 <Keymaker> ah.
19:16:05 <Keymaker> i got a new idea how to make a shorter one
19:16:14 <Keymaker> probably i'll get under 1000 this time :)
19:16:16 <Keymaker> later.
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2005-04-07:

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22:26:25 <Keymaker> hi
22:26:53 <Keymaker> anyone know any good thue tutorial?
22:28:25 <queixada> huhhh
22:28:30 <queixada> the language is trivial
22:29:01 <Keymaker> :)
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23:20:40 <Keymaker> 'nite
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2005-04-08:

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21:30:05 <Keymaker> evenin'
21:31:01 <arke> HI
21:31:09 <Keymaker> hi
21:43:03 <Keymaker> kipple
21:43:20 <Keymaker> is 0+a possible?
21:43:26 <Keymaker> (i'm too lazy to try)
21:43:41 <Keymaker> or does it always need to be a+0  ?
21:56:39 <Keymaker> aaarrgh
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2005-04-09:

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05:23:37 <graue> hello, heatsink
05:26:39 <heatsink> hi graue
05:27:14 <heatsink> figured out that program yet?
05:28:59 <graue> the loop program in iag? i haven't tried anymore yet
05:29:22 <graue> at present, i'm trying to learn C programming using ncurses, which is pretty non-esoteric
05:29:29 <graue> but tell me this
05:29:34 <heatsink> ncurses is kinda esoteric...
05:29:40 <graue> would you contribute to an esoteric language wiki, if one existed?
05:29:47 <heatsink> It's the only library I know that uses (y,x) instead of (x,y) coordinates
05:29:54 <graue> QuickBASIC does it that way
05:30:00 <graue> LOCATE y, x
05:30:04 <graue> so that's not esoteric for me
05:30:11 <heatsink> ok
05:30:25 <graue> is that ok to the wiki?
05:31:06 <graue> or what?
05:31:07 <heatsink> I think I'd have little to contribute.  I haven't been much active with the esolangs.
05:31:17 <graue> did you invent the Heat Sink programming language?
05:31:34 <heatsink> no. Is there such a thing?
05:31:43 <graue> i remember, while skimming the list archives, seeing something about one
05:31:54 <graue> i think it was some other programming language, and someone suggested it might be renamed Heat Sink
05:31:58 <graue> Kayak, i think it was
05:32:03 <graue> i guess they didn't rename it
05:32:27 <heatsink> I don't remember about that...
05:33:39 <graue> it was sometime in 2002
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20:59:26 <Keymaker> greetings
22:22:28 <Keymaker> hey -- would yiap.org be good? "Yes, it's a program."
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23:04:09 <Keymaker> "I hope I didn't brain my damage." --simpsons
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23:35:14 <mtve> hehe

2005-04-10:

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2005-04-11:

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04:51:20 <calamari> hi
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20:55:57 <arke> http://bash.org/?487298

2005-04-12:

00:45:47 -!- lament_ has changed nick to lament.
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05:56:16 <calamari> hi
05:56:30 <lament> hi
05:57:00 <calamari> how's it going?
05:58:01 <lament> slowly
06:11:08 <calamari> your life must be running in bf then :)
06:22:46 <lament> no
06:22:56 <lament> my life is very object-oriented at the moment
06:23:09 <calamari> malbolge
06:23:14 <calamari> hahaha
06:23:41 <calamari> are there any oo-esolangs?
06:24:44 <lament> many
06:24:53 <lament> though i can't think of any at the moment
06:25:14 <lament> they don't normally have all the bells and whistles like inheritance or even methods
06:25:43 <calamari> is it still oo without inheritance?
06:25:45 <lament> cellular automata are OO in a sense :)
06:26:13 <lament> i thought you just needed objects
06:26:17 <calamari> so the game of life
06:26:31 <lament> is it still procedural programming without procedures? :)
06:26:38 <lament> is it still programming without IO? :)
06:26:40 <calamari> you need polymorphism 
06:26:46 <calamari> (for oo)
06:27:10 <calamari> lament: I'm not sure it's possible to turn off i/o
06:27:31 <calamari> can listen to the computer with a radio
06:27:45 <calamari> or measure its electricity usage
06:27:48 <lament> lazy k, iota, jot, don't have IO
06:27:54 <lament> well i guess they actually do.
06:28:00 <lament> turing machines kind of don't
06:28:27 <lament> just because you can look inside your computer, doesn't mean your _language_ has IO
06:28:32 <lament> you can cheat of course
06:29:37 <calamari> length of program execution can be considered output
06:29:56 <lament> in C, dereferencing a pointer to some random location could possibly make your computer explode
06:29:56 <lament> but you can cheat by using an implementation that just gives you the value at that address in the memory
06:30:35 <lament> that's also cheating
06:31:03 <lament> unless the language specifies how much time all the steps take
06:31:12 <lament> and most don't
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11:23:01 <Keymaker> hey
11:24:40 <Keymaker> finally some spare time.. to do school work x(
12:07:12 <Keymaker> grrh.
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2005-04-13:

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18:34:13 <Keymaker> to remind everyone; logical brainfuck competition ends when the first seconds on 16th day tick.. that's soon, btw. so, be sure to work on your entry program. ;)
18:36:31 <graue> how many entries do you have?
18:46:44 <Keymaker> hmm
18:47:25 <Keymaker> as there is none returned, as shouldn't, no idea
18:47:31 <Keymaker> but, i hope i will get at least couple of
18:47:40 <Keymaker> the task might be a bit harder than bfcc #1
18:47:51 <Keymaker> or well, it's a lot harder
18:48:06 <Keymaker> so i'm not surprised if i don't get many entries
18:48:10 <Keymaker> but surprise me ;)
19:23:14 <Keymaker> must go.
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20:56:47 <Keymaker> rgrh
21:16:14 <Keymaker> nothing is more annoying than a bug in a program
21:43:45 <kipple> how about two bugs ;)
21:43:52 <Keymaker> weell
21:43:57 <Keymaker> that's worse! aargh
21:44:02 <Keymaker> and very possible
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22:08:09 <Keymaker> well
22:08:15 <Keymaker> must hit the bed.
22:08:20 <Keymaker> aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
22:08:32 <Keymaker> stupid bugs..
22:08:52 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
23:43:40 <andreou> check
23:43:43 <andreou> good, still alive.

2005-04-14:

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02:03:24 <fizzie> Did some befunge syntax-highlighting to my universal turing machine thing: http://gehennom.org/~fis/utm.bef  -- the code is still very much unoptimized. :/
02:03:31 <fizzie> Egh.
02:03:45 <fizzie> That's not syntax-highlighted at all.
02:04:02 <fizzie> http://gehennom.org/~fis/utm.html was the URL I was aiming for. I'm not sure if the fancier things work at all with a non-firefox browser.
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02:14:53 <graue> that makes me happy, fizzie
02:38:01 <graue> a non-gecko browser, you mean
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16:14:55 <Keymaker> eveninä
16:15:02 <Keymaker> d'oh
16:15:09 <Keymaker> replace ä with '
16:15:50 <Keymaker> looks like interesting stuff fizzie, although i haven't tried :)
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16:42:37 <graue> would you contribute content to an esoteric language wiki, Keymaker?
16:54:49 <Keymaker> perhaps somethin'
16:55:00 <Keymaker> (sorry about delay, i was getting ice cream from store)
17:50:12 <Keymaker> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
17:50:15 <Keymaker> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
17:50:18 <Keymaker> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhh
17:50:20 <Keymaker> fckklllllllllllllll
17:50:23 <Keymaker> :(
17:50:25 <Keymaker> :X
17:50:33 <Keymaker> >:{}
17:50:38 <Keymaker> #/?&#?&(#()"#?"&%!%&#!"
17:50:39 <Keymaker> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
17:50:45 <Keymaker> nooooooooooo no no no non ono no non on onon
17:50:49 * Keymaker dies
17:51:14 <kipple> R.I.P.
17:51:25 <mtve> whatsup?
17:51:30 <Keymaker> rgh
17:51:39 <Keymaker> who?
17:51:41 <Keymaker> me?
17:52:11 <Keymaker> second time i wrote
17:52:20 <Keymaker> the "core" for my lbfc solution today
17:52:32 <Keymaker> and this one..
17:52:37 <Keymaker> DOESN*T WORK
17:52:55 <Keymaker> and i realized the error just after completing it..
17:53:09 <Keymaker> time to rewrite the s**t again
17:53:26 <Keymaker> (and no, i don't have the first working version anymore)
17:53:35 <Keymaker> that's why one always should take backups
17:53:44 <Keymaker> i never do, and i've pretty often regretted that
17:53:50 <Keymaker> this is one of those cases
17:53:56 <Keymaker> unfair!!!!
17:53:58 <Keymaker> aaaaaargh
17:54:37 * Keymaker redies
17:56:05 <Keymaker> hey..
17:56:09 <Keymaker> this might work..
17:56:17 <Keymaker> maybe there isn't logical error afterall
17:56:19 <Keymaker> gotta try
17:59:23 <Keymaker> NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
17:59:30 <Keymaker> it doesn't
17:59:52 <Keymaker> gr
17:59:53 <Keymaker> hh
18:00:10 <Keymaker> but now it thing it's just because coding error
18:00:14 <Keymaker> not because of logical error
18:01:34 <Keymaker> but it is REALLY ANNOYING when you have A LOT brainfuck instructions in front of your face and you gotta find some ERROR that causes F***ING OVERFLOW somewhere....
18:01:40 <Keymaker> i'll go to calming down
18:01:44 <Keymaker> better try again later
18:01:46 <Keymaker> grr
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18:38:57 * andreou is away: booze
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18:52:56 <lament> booze!
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20:04:38 <Keymaker> hmmm
20:04:49 <Keymaker> *panic*
20:08:15 <Keymaker> "Good shit, huh? Dozer makes it. It's good for two things: degreasing engines and killing brain cells."
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20:23:41 <graue> anyway, if anyone wants to contribute to the wiki, it's at http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/
20:23:45 <graue> i wrote some shit there to start it off
20:45:47 <kipple> looks good :)
20:49:14 <kipple> The wikipedia is already a good esolang wiki, though...
20:57:00 <Keymaker> yeah
20:57:06 <Keymaker> but this looks nice too
21:21:22 <graue> wikipedia doesn't like esolang stuff and wants to delete all of it for nonnotability
21:21:43 <Keymaker> :(
21:21:52 <Keymaker> your wiki is good idea
21:22:05 <Keymaker> i try to contribute something sometime
21:23:53 <Keymaker> on a sidenote, that is entirely unrelated to this matter, my third version of the input system doesn't work.............
21:24:19 <Keymaker> i start to be slightly annoyed
21:36:17 <graue> say, C isn't turing-complete, is it?
21:36:39 <graue> because according to the spec, sizeof(void*) must be finite
21:38:09 <Keymaker> don't ask me
21:38:23 <Keymaker> but naturally i hope it is not turing-complete :)
21:38:44 <Keymaker> that's feature of more elegant languages.. (brainfuck)
21:45:44 <Keymaker> well.
21:45:50 <Keymaker> time to go.
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22:16:24 <kipple> interesting :) do you have a link to a formal specification of C?
22:17:17 <fizzie> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n843.htm has the latest C99 draft that's legally freely available.
22:17:27 <fizzie> It's quite close to the actual standard.
22:17:35 <fizzie> Probably "close enough" for most uses.
22:19:26 <fizzie> The actual standard could possibly be found in the interweb, too, but officially it costs few $s.
22:20:04 <kipple> ok. thanks.
22:20:50 <kipple> anyway, I don't see why it can't be turing-complete because of sizeof.
22:21:36 <fizzie> If sizeof(void *) is finite, there's (possibly; haven't thinked this through) no (standard) way to access infinite amounts of memory.
22:22:22 <kipple> wouldn't a linked list do the trick?
22:23:00 <fizzie> A linked list still needs pointers to the elements, and there are only 2^(sizeof(void *) * CHAR_BITS) unique memory addresses those can be in.
22:25:24 <fizzie> "Each such allocation shall yield a pointer to an object disjoint from any other object." says the spec about malloc and other dynamic memory allocation functions. That means there's at the very least an upper bound of possible malloc()-allocated objects, and those have finite size too.
22:25:46 <kipple> yes but that only deals with RAM
22:26:26 <kipple> the memory demanded by turing-completeness could be harddrives or tape
22:27:30 <kipple> it shouldn't be a problem having a C program read from an infinite tape stream, just like a turing machine. Or am I missing something here??
22:28:07 <fizzie> Depends on how the standard specifies "fsetpos()/fgetpos()". If those are required to work for all files, it imposes an upper limit for random-access-files.
22:28:40 <kipple> hmm. yes.
22:29:46 <kipple> anyway, this is pretty academic, as there doesn't exist, and never will, an implementation of ANY language that is turing complete :)
22:30:01 <fizzie> Not sure if an implementation with infinite-size files (that could be used with fseek(..., SEEK_CUR) commands) would be C-standards-conforming.
22:30:42 <kipple> but all input doesn't have to come from random access files
22:31:02 <kipple> user input, for instance is theoretically infinite
22:31:32 <fizzie> Input, yes, but a Turing machine needs a seekable and rewritable "something" for the tape.
22:31:44 <kipple> true
22:31:55 <kipple> but it doesn't need setpos/getpos
22:32:09 <kipple> only next/prev
22:32:44 <fizzie> Yes, but C standard doesn't have that kind of streams. There's fseek(), though.
22:33:00 <fizzie> ... hmm, I wonder if outputting "Dear User, please remember the following values" would be considered cheating.
22:36:58 <fizzie> Aw, dang. For a FILE object (which is the only seekable thing in standard C except memory) the standard defines: "-- fpos_t which is an object type other than an array type capable of recording all the information needed to specify uniquely every position within a file." (And fpos_t has finite size - all objects do.)
22:38:24 <fizzie> Oh well. C is a low-level language anyway.
22:40:55 <lindi-> nothing stops you from writing libinfinitetape that offers moveleft(), moveright(), writebyte() and readbyte() :)
22:41:06 <fizzie> That's not standard C, though.
22:41:20 <lindi-> true
22:41:38 <kipple> if you can write it with standard C it is, but apparently you can't...
22:42:04 <fizzie> It should be noted that Java has the same _crippling_ problem.
22:42:22 <kipple> how is that crippling?
22:42:35 <fizzie> It's not, that's why it was underlined.
22:43:01 <kipple> ah. I interpret underlines differently than you then :)
22:43:53 <kipple> to me that would mean emphasis on the word, as in REALLY crippling...
22:43:55 <fizzie> (Streams aren't seekable, and RandomAccessFiles have a file pointer of only 64 bytes. I'm not sure if a standard Java implementation could provide an infinite amout of objects, though.)
22:44:20 <kipple> no implementation of anything can do that
23:09:31 <graue> couldn't you use new an infinite number of times?
23:14:24 <kipple> you mean in Java?
23:21:09 <fizzie> In Java, perhaps.
23:21:34 <kipple> how would you make an infinite "tape" what way?
23:24:30 <fizzie> As far as I see, a (doubly-)linked list would work in Java-language (when looking at the Java language specification book), but an infinite tape in Java-VM (as specified by the Java Virtual Machine Specification) wouldn't be possible.
23:25:24 <kipple> but the Java VM is not the language. you could implement java without it. 
23:25:39 <kipple> or does the spec require a VM?
23:26:04 <fizzie> The language probably doesn't. I'm not awake enough to read all the details.
23:26:39 <fizzie> I'm not even sure if the VM spec goes low-level enough that it would limit things. It seems to only speak of a dynamic-sized heap.

2005-04-15:

01:55:19 <cpressey> fizzie: at first glance I don't see anything that says CHAR_BIT must be finite...
01:56:12 <cpressey> well, uh... "The value  UCHAR_MAX+1  shall  equal  2  raised  to  the   power CHAR_BIT"... ok, that either presents a small problem, or is just infinite too
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19:31:12 <Keymaker> yeaaa
19:31:18 <Keymaker> one problem solved
19:31:22 <Keymaker> one left :)
19:31:32 <Keymaker> there's still some hours
19:42:43 <Keymaker> yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
19:42:46 <Keymaker> solved it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
19:42:49 <Keymaker> hahahahhahahahahahah
19:42:52 <Keymaker> heeeheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
19:42:55 <Keymaker> yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
19:43:26 <Keymaker> the code should've taken copy of three values in memory,
19:43:29 <Keymaker> and as i forgot that
19:43:33 <Keymaker> it didn't work
19:43:40 <Keymaker> (no matter how many times i rewrote that part)
19:43:52 <Keymaker> i always had the same "logical" error..
19:43:55 <Keymaker> ah
20:00:54 <Keymaker> grrrrrrrr although seems there still is some bug.. there's something wrong with memory movement although it now loads the numbers correctly
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21:46:53 <Keymaker> :(
21:47:03 <Keymaker> time's almost up, i didn't make it
21:47:13 <Keymaker> hopefully you others had better luck
21:48:12 <Keymaker> this is embarrassing
21:56:49 <andreou> time's up for what?
22:02:55 <arke> brainfuck competition
22:02:58 <arke> I ddnt have time either
22:02:59 <arke> :(
22:03:02 <arke> I will next time
22:04:54 <andreou> ah?
22:04:55 <andreou> eh.
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22:40:52 <Keymaker> andreau: see topic of the channel :)
22:41:02 <Keymaker> and.. too bad arke :(
22:55:36 -!- Keymaker has set topic: Return your LBFC MD5(s) at http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1267769&forum_id=201037.
23:45:21 <graue> will brainfuck programming get me a high-paying job in today's economy?
23:46:10 <arke> graue: yes, as an intel assembler programmer
23:46:20 <arke> :)
23:49:59 <Keymaker> yes
23:50:01 <Keymaker> ;)
23:50:39 <Keymaker> and who cares about the money anyways
23:50:57 <Keymaker> worth of trying, at least :)
23:51:02 <Keymaker> well, must go.
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2005-04-16:

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02:44:02 <arke> somebody say somethinh im bored
03:08:46 <graue> esoteric languages suck ass
03:10:17 <arke> esoteric languages r0x0r
03:11:12 <graue> oh yeah? well, i think they suck and you're a moron for liking them
03:11:27 <graue> (not really, i'm just trying to start a flamewar to cure your boredom)
03:19:27 <arke> OMG
03:19:28 <arke> LIEK#
03:19:32 <arke> you cant hate brainfuck
03:19:33 <arke> its so simple
03:19:42 <arke> it fcks with your brain that its so simple that you could not have come up with it
03:19:45 <arke> brainfuck
03:19:47 <arke> heresy
03:19:47 <arke> :)
03:19:50 <arke> omg
03:20:05 <graue> i tried programming in brainfuck, and it, like, it FUCKED UP MY BRAIN!
03:20:09 <graue> man, i couldn't believe it
03:23:43 <arke> thats the point
03:23:47 <arke> so you think simpler
03:23:51 <arke> and you approach life like that
03:24:01 <graue> is it zen-like?
03:24:04 <arke> usually ends with you being arrested for promiting the lack of government
03:24:09 <arke> :P
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03:27:38 <graue> anarchy ROCKS!
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04:17:00 <graue> i'm glad someone wrote DeCSS in brainfuck so i don't have to
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04:36:28 <graue> ·¤Øؤ· ·¤Øؤ· ·¤Øؤ·  BRAINFUCK! ·¤Øؤ· ·¤Øؤ· ·¤Øؤ·
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17:04:28 <graue> dircproxy, eh?
17:07:05 <mtve> wassup?
17:08:32 <graue> i must lnow about this dircproxy
17:08:37 <graue> it sounds great
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18:41:30 <Keymaker> eeeeeeerg
19:12:54 <Keymaker> yiiihaaaaaaaaaa
19:13:02 <Keymaker> i got a new brainfuck program idea!
19:13:11 <Keymaker> this'll be pretty cool i assume
19:13:24 <Keymaker> i won't tell more yet..
19:17:48 <Keymaker> ah.
19:18:00 <Keymaker> annoying school work done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
19:18:51 <Keymaker> (there was about two months time to do the stuff, so naturally it took time until this last day before i got them made)
19:20:49 <Keymaker> must go. bye
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16:31:09 -!- Keymaker has set topic: Laurent won again; http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1269322&forum_id=201037.
16:31:31 <Keymaker> congrats to laurent for winning the logical brainfuck competition!
16:31:43 <Keymaker> (we got at least one entry ;))
16:32:18 <Keymaker> it's pretty cool brainfuck program, gotta say.. wow.
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18:01:58 <graue> Laurent who?
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18:18:43 <Keymaker> graue: laurent who?! laurent vogel, one of the best brainfuck programmers around!
18:18:46 <Keymaker> (i guess)
18:19:07 <Keymaker> and by the way, have you worked on the kipple interpreter? i wanna program in kipple!!!!!!
18:25:39 <graue> no, i have not worked on it at all :(
18:25:52 <Keymaker> aargh :(
18:26:22 <Keymaker> hopefully you do sometime.. it's one interpreter i'm definitely waiting for..
18:42:46 <Keymaker> and for everyone; the kipple quine i made back then can be found here:
18:42:46 <Keymaker> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/kipple/quine.k
18:42:56 <Keymaker> i would've put it up sooner but i had no host
19:12:52 <Keymaker> well.
19:12:58 <Keymaker> must go
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20:28:54 <mtve> nice quine.
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02:48:56 <dilbert42> hello ...
02:49:42 <dilbert42> anyone here knows something about a dinosaur named 'stenonychosaure' ????
02:55:36 <arke> nope
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16:52:25 <Keymaker> grrrrrrr
16:52:53 <Keymaker> two days till weekend...
16:53:10 <Keymaker> anyways;
16:53:24 <Keymaker> just thought of interesting challence
16:53:58 <Keymaker> if anyone succeeds in this
16:53:58 <Keymaker> i will eat my hat
16:53:58 <Keymaker> and send you 100 euros
16:56:08 <Keymaker> here's the task: write a brainfuck program that designs (intelligent, purposeful and working) brainfuck programs, trying to make their code as small as possible
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17:18:44 <Keymaker> yo
17:21:17 <Keymaker> why does nothing cool happen?
17:32:01 <fizzie> I've been idly writing a befunge compiler thing, but it still generates buggy code and has issues with self-modification. Trying to fix it enough that it'd run my utm.bef.
17:32:18 <Keymaker> hmm
17:32:18 <lindi-> hmm
17:32:31 <Keymaker> what makes it hard to write a befunge compiler?
17:32:39 <Keymaker> (writing a compiler would be way too hard for me!)
17:32:51 <Keymaker> but is there something different with befunge?
17:33:52 <fizzie> There's the amount of self-modification in the language, so you basically have to include a compiler with the compiled program to recompile affected parts on the 'put' instruction.
17:34:14 <Keymaker> hmm
17:34:16 <lindi-> indeed
17:34:58 <fizzie> This is written in Java, I was going to target Java-bytecode so I could include the same compiler classes with the "executable". Currently I just have (for testing) a _really_ simple C-generating backend, which doesn't handle self-modification at all.
17:36:22 <fizzie> And, as said, creates buggey code. Probably one of my optimization passes. I do some stack-content-analysis to avoid writing conditional jumps that never get taken, and to do constant-folding.
17:37:34 <Keymaker> hmmmm.. sounds confuseing
17:39:03 <lindi-> fizzie: hmm, can you please try to develop it with gcc so that there's a better chance that the final version will also work with gcc? ;)
17:40:07 <fizzie> Ergh. It uses Java-1.5 generics, you know.
17:41:51 <lindi-> fizzie: rright, and that's not even merged to gcc cvs HEAD yet...
17:45:25 <fizzie> Hmmmmn. My befunge source is buggy, too.
17:48:05 <fizzie> fis@colin:~$ ./out
17:48:05 <fizzie> abA!6!0!a!1!A!R!0!b!5!b!R!1!a!1!a!R!1!b!2!b!R!2!a!2!a!R!2!A!3!A!L!2!!!3!!!L!3!a!4!A!L!4!a!4!a!L!4!b!4!b!L!4!A!0!A!R!5!A!7!A!L!5!!!7!!!L!6!aabaa!
17:48:08 <fizzie> accept.
17:48:11 <fizzie> fis@colin:~$ ./out
17:48:13 <fizzie> abA!6!0!a!1!A!R!0!b!5!b!R!1!a!1!a!R!1!b!2!b!R!2!a!2!a!R!2!A!3!A!L!2!!!3!!!L!3!a!4!A!L!4!a!4!a!L!4!b!4!b!L!4!A!0!A!R!5!A!7!A!L!5!!!7!!!L!6!aabaaa!
17:48:16 <fizzie> reject.
17:48:19 <fizzie> Yay. :)
17:48:32 <Keymaker> ??
17:49:27 <fizzie> See http://gehennom.org/~fis/utm.html for the program I was running, and http://gehennom.org/~fis/out.c.txt for the generated code. :p
17:50:19 <Keymaker> ah, this -- although i have no idea how it works
17:50:25 <Keymaker> :)
17:50:54 <Keymaker> must go to eat, will be back soon, at least for a while
18:59:45 <puzzlet> Is that Universal Turing Machine?
19:00:48 <puzzlet> And, what a viewer
19:09:01 <Keymaker> well, couldn't come back earlier
19:09:26 <Keymaker> could someone point me a link that would describe what is universal turing machine and how does it work?
19:12:07 <fizzie> Well, in befunge-93 it has a maximum tape length of ~52, maximum alphabet size of 17 and maximum state limit of 8, so it's not much of an universal turing machine. With an unlimited playfield it would be, though.
19:14:01 <Keymaker> link..?
19:14:45 <fizzie> Well, wikipedia's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine page has a description.
19:15:23 <fizzie> Actually I'm not sure that could be called an universal turing machine, since it's not a turing machine, it's a befunge program. It can still simulate any given Turing machine, though.
19:18:37 <Keymaker> thanks
19:18:44 <Keymaker> i try to understand some bits
19:18:45 <Keymaker> :)
19:52:42 <Keymaker> too confusing..
19:52:56 <Keymaker> probably should read something Turing Machines for Dummies
19:52:59 <Keymaker> or something
20:05:40 <Keymaker> rggh.
20:29:45 <fizzie> Take an 'introduction to computer science' course. :) (I probably wouldn't have chosen a universal turing machine as a befunge test-program if I weren't going to t-79.148 now.)
20:30:19 <Keymaker> well, can't do that for a year..
20:30:22 <Keymaker> or something
20:30:36 <Keymaker> i'm not at university yet, too bad
20:31:06 <Keymaker> but thanks for the tip
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06:17:56 <Keymaker> ghrhhh
06:33:33 <Keymaker> ++++++++[!+++++++++!-]!.!+++++[!++++++!-]!-.+++++++..+++ .!
06:33:33 <Keymaker> ++++++++[!----------!-]!+.!+++++[!+++++++++++!-]!.!
06:33:33 <Keymaker> +++++[!+++++!-]!-.+++.------.--------.++++++++[!--------!-]
06:33:36 <Keymaker> !---.!++++++++++.
06:33:49 <Keymaker> if the stuff got copied right
06:33:56 <Keymaker> there should be hello world
06:34:04 <Keymaker> in brainfuck variation
06:34:17 <Keymaker> that uses two memory cells and switches the cell with '!'
06:34:29 <Keymaker> i don't have interpreter for that so don't know if it works
06:36:11 <Keymaker> here:
06:36:11 <Keymaker> ,[------------------------------------------------[!+!-]![!+!-[!+!-[!+!-[!+!-[!+!-[!
06:36:13 <Keymaker> +!-[!+!-[!+!-[!+!-[!--------![-]]]]]]]]]]]![!+!-],]++++++[!++++++++!-]!.!++++++++++.
06:36:15 <Keymaker> should be
06:36:23 <Keymaker> that digital root program
06:36:29 <Keymaker> (this needs EOF=0)
06:36:48 <Keymaker> haven't tested it with interpreter
06:37:08 <Keymaker> but it's pretty much close to my brainfuck version that is a bit shorter, and uses eof = no change
06:37:42 <Keymaker> the program above uses only two memory cells
06:38:09 <Keymaker> i try to make more programs that use only two memory cells or less
06:38:29 <Keymaker> be free to contribute ;)
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06:48:49 <Keymaker> hey
07:03:19 <Keymaker> hmh. must go.
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