< 1115338006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've made a recursive fibonacci in befunge. It takes (optimized; not completely by me) 13x3, 23x2 or 9x4 characters. < 1115339480 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh. < 1115339483 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just finished cat, too. < 1115339493 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A clean 10 lines. < 1115339574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>~# :#,_@ (with EOF=0 semantics) < 1115339632 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EOF in ORK is EZ :-P < 1115339641 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If StdIn says it's done then I am to quit. < 1115339678 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have an interpreter already, or is it all on "paper"? < 1115339832 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiles to C++ < 1115339843 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the worst parser ever written by mankind. < 1115339843 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1115339863 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow! is it written by Mankind? :) < 1115339875 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on your definition of me :-P < 1115339889 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I wouldn't know... < 1115339913 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes off his human mask. < 1115339917 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a giant insect!!! < 1115339960 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you do that trick to talk about yourself in 3rd person? < 1115339971 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /me in most IRC clients. < 1115339995 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has learned something today < 1115340001 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1115340003 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay. thanks < 1115340008 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N/P < 1115340149 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drives out nonkipple < 1115340158 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1115340212 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :StdOut is to write "Yay!\n" < 1115345670 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00t, loops and conditionals are both working :) < 1115346162 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1115351106 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoi < 1115351492 0 :GregorR-L!~GregorR-L@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1115351607 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1115351973 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORK is done :) < 1115351981 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.befunge.org/fyb/ork/ < 1115351995 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sorry I keep tossing stuff into the FYB web space, I promise that's the last one ;0 < 1115351997 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*;) < 1115353472 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.befunge.org/fyb/ork/fibonacci.ork < Fibonacci sequence ... particularly ugly 8-D < 1115355159 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently I'm incapable of writing a Quine. < 1115355810 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1115365573 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.241.35.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1115366077 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1115366081 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MADE A QUINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 < 1115366182 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That 1 is significant. < 1115366318 0 :Keymaker!~Not@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1115366322 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haohplah < 1115366326 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy language < 1115366329 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quine! < 1115366330 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1115366332 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme! < 1115366347 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In ORK :) < 1115366350 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One sec... < 1115366358 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1115366365 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yeah i knew it was in ORK) < 1115366369 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't laugh at how long and stupid it is, it's my first quine ;) < 1115366371 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.befunge.org/fyb/ork/quine.ork < 1115366386 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't laugh at all < 1115366390 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks really cool < 1115366393 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a language like this < 1115366394 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1115366399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1115366400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1115366435 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't laugh at all < 1115366436 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1115366438 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm crying < 1115366458 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1115366480 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very cool < 1115366505 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have the slightest idea how it works :) the language is too bizarre :p < 1115366530 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't documented it yet, so ... *cough* < 1115366541 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's stupidly, insanely, idiotically object oriented. < 1115366553 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only function you can have outside of an object is "main' < 1115366580 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like java < 1115366595 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, it's stupidly, insanely, idiotically object oriented. :) < 1115366639 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1115366740 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be turing-complete (at least i'd guess so) < 1115366757 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is *shrugs* < 1115366768 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not as easy to prove as things that you can prove are BF-complete. < 1115366839 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually... < 1115366851 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I wrote a BF interpreter in ORK, that would prove it was turing complete, yes? < 1115366859 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1115366888 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1115366896 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll write a spec first. < 1115366907 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better yet, try the universal register machine < 1115366908 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier < 1115366915 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually < 1115366934 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it doesn't get much easier to implement than bf :) < 1115366943 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh < 1115366945 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :universal register machine is easier < 1115366960 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: please do tell < 1115366985 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i think so < 1115366989 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.iwriteiam.nl/Ha_bf_Turing.html < 1115366990 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does universal register machine work? < 1115367030 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1115367031 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actuall it's even more similar to BF than i remembered. < 1115367040 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1115367056 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC Faase's pages hold a description < 1115367057 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sleepitime for me (right as everybody else is finally becoming active) < 1115367063 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See you all later. < 1115367083 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, nite GregorR-L < 1115367090 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye :=) < 1115367099 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(darn '=') < 1115367189 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is that language is turing-complete if some other, turing-complete, language's interpreter can be written in it? < 1115367204 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for example bf interpreter? < 1115367228 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1115367233 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1115367257 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, if you can compile programs in another turing complete language to your language < 1115367263 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, lament already posted the page... I think I need more coffee < 1115367272 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1115367370 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that to actually prove turing completeness with brainfuck < 1115367371 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I've found a language called OOPS in the old Cat's Eye pages which is allegedly object-oriented (thus the name ;) but there's no link - does anyone know anything else? < 1115367371 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any language that isn't turing-complete but where still has been written some turing-complete language's interpreter? or could that even be possible? < 1115367380 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need either an infitite memory size < 1115367384 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or infinite cell size < 1115367397 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1115367397 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be SOME way to store arbitrary amount of information < 1115367406 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it's just a finite state machine < 1115367433 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keymaker: well i guess < 1115367435 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a language < 1115367447 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which the only instruction is "input a brainfuck program, and interpret it" < 1115367453 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that language isn't really turing-complete :) < 1115367456 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1115367469 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, would be a good joke language < 1115367501 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess writing an interpreter does NOT really prove turing-completeness < 1115367502 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1115367507 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to compile stuff < 1115367511 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that when people are talking about "turing completeness" with respect to programming languages, it really means "x is turing complete within the limitations of the interpreter's memory" < 1115367515 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a turing-complete lanugage to your langugae < 1115367528 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: no < 1115367548 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then no language is turing complete. < 1115367548 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: you don't care about interpreters when judging turing-completeness < 1115367553 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: wrong < 1115367560 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all limited by memory constraints. < 1115367563 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they're not < 1115367564 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHHHHH, I see. < 1115367566 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreters are < 1115367566 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1115367570 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages aren't < 1115367572 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language C is not limited by memory. < 1115367580 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language defines a specification of a virtual machine < 1115367580 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the system your run it on is. < 1115367582 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see now < 1115367588 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this virtual machine may or may not be turing complete < 1115367601 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may or may not require infinite memory < 1115367623 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it does require infinite memory then it's not possible to implement it 100% < 1115367632 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, doesn't "turing complete" mean that, given the proper programming, it could do any mathematical task? < 1115367634 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's turing-complete nonetheless < 1115367640 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: yes < 1115367661 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: unfortunately computers are not turing complete :) < 1115367669 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1115367679 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that sometimes that implies storing the program in the tape < 1115367682 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a LANGUAGE could be if it did not have an implicit memory limit? < 1115367688 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1115367691 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1115367692 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can just say < 1115367701 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1115367702 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"brainfuck provides arbitrarily big memory" < 1115367706 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1115367709 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So C is turing complete because you could do anything, though you might need to malloc(10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000) < 1115367729 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But BF is not because you could never have that many cells. < 1115367741 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1115367743 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1115367748 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to malloc that much :) just think of the pointer type as an arbitrarily long integer < 1115367767 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was for effect :-P < 1115367771 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: there's no agreement on whether BF memory is infinite or not < 1115367780 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the language spec 30000 cells? < 1115367792 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4000 or something, but nobody cares much < 1115367799 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30000 i've heard < 1115367806 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that an ENSI spec? < 1115367810 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1115367817 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if i remember correct it's "at least" < 1115367822 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can be wrong < 1115367826 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So then, if the cell count was built into the language, it could never be turing complete ... but if it wasn't (in BF as an example), it could be? < 1115367829 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think the cell size is ever specified < 1115367845 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could mean that the cells themselves can be infinitely big < 1115367852 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1115367852 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case you don't need too many of them to be turing-complete < 1115367856 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1115367861 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long as there's infinite means for storage. < 1115367871 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In the perfect scenario that can never be attained :-P ) < 1115367872 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how few you need < 1115367884 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually in BF you probably still need infinite number of cells < 1115367894 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not gonna try proving that :| < 1115367898 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1115367913 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did someone read http://esoteric.sange.fi/ENSI/brainfuck-1.0.txt ? < 1115367920 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still confident that both 2L and ORK are turing complete (2L within the bounds of memory of course) < 1115367930 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: that spec is great < 1115367945 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1115367954 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway even if you take BF's memory to be 30000 < 1115367966 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still intuitively turing complete < 1115367972 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any "small enough" problem < 1115367979 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the problem is bigger, you just increase the memory size < 1115367983 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, but doesn't turing complete MEAN for ANY problem? < 1115367986 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since 30000 is clearly just an arbitrary number < 1115367990 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1115367994 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thing is < 1115368003 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANY problem would still need only finite memory < 1115368006 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, BF itself is, if 30000 is not taken to be part of the language, but of the implementation. < 1115368021 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter how big your problem is < 1115368026 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only needs a finite memory < 1115368036 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calculating every digit of pi. < 1115368043 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite time, infinite memory. < 1115368043 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a valid problem < 1115368046 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1115368048 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1115368064 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I've REALLY got to sleep now. < 1115368068 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmh.. pi < 1115368074 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1115368079 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good nite :) < 1115368086 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite GregorR < 1115368114 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculating pi to N digits is a valid problem :) < 1115368170 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, OK: A language is turing complete IF given infinite memory and code space, it could solve any mathematical problem. Is that a good all-inclusive definition? < 1115368185 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Trust me, I'm asleep ;) ) < 1115368189 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1115368205 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it's s/infinite/arbitrary < 1115368208 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrarily big < 1115368210 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but finite < 1115368249 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if it was given infinite, it still certainly could ... and I think that's a bit easier to explain ... < 1115368254 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about "sufficiently large" < 1115368283 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I'm REALLY REALLY sleeping. < 1115368364 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Freedom!" < 1115368370 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exclusion of infinite algorithms is somwehat puzzling to me... this C program: main() {printf("0."); while (1) printf("3");} obviously prints the infinite expansion of 1/3 even if it's not a valid algorithm < 1115368405 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: why use such an obscure definitions? what's a "mathematical problem" anyway? < 1115368432 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: well, the reason is < 1115368440 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: turing machines don't have IO < 1115368450 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't look at IO when deciding it < 1115368453 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a side effect < 1115368470 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it could have < 1115368477 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only at the state of the machine when the program terminates < 1115368535 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it "could have" < 1115368547 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but remember the pioneers were looking from a mathematical perspective < 1115368555 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no IO in math < 1115368558 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1115368601 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well, I suppose it's just a question of historical reasons < 1115368663 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but being limited to analysis of finite programs for historical reasons makes little sense to me < 1115373732 0 :kipple!~kipple@163.80-202-100.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1115380628 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1115384432 0 :Keymaker!~Not@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1115384438 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1115384815 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small challenge: < 1115384830 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or don't know if it's challenging) < 1115384924 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a file that has 32 characters in it: those characters should be the md5 hash of the file < 1115384928 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry about delay) < 1115384955 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the data inside the file should be the md5 hash of the file < 1115385121 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is possible it's probably not easy to find < 1115385136 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Keymaker < 1115385141 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1115385144 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading the backlog < 1115385150 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1115385153 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have checked your quine < 1115385168 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple? befunge? < 1115385175 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge < 1115385179 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1115385204 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(your web page looks awesome, btw) < 1115385217 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, you're first to say that :) < 1115385256 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that the befunge quine is a bit cheatful though, in the sense that it reads its own source < 1115385270 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1115385298 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but quine still ;) and valid program < 1115385342 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite compact and easy to understand (even for me who still didn't know anything about the Befunge instructions) < 1115385352 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1115385357 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1115385446 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quine works the way that first it reads it own instructions to stack (stuff inside " ") < 1115385457 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the it executes the instructions < 1115385473 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the instructions tell it to print out '"'s and the stuff there is in stack < 1115385502 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and print '#' as well < 1115385509 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'#' jumps over one command < 1115385542 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so at the end of 80 char line it jumps to place 2 to the beginning of the program and not to place 1 which is '"' < 1115385625 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep I understood it < 1115385638 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1115385645 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1115385651 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you read that my challenge? < 1115385666 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that i wrote some minutes ago?) < 1115385670 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on this channel) < 1115385685 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was on it right now < 1115385704 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool! :) < 1115385706 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure MD5 has a "fixed point" < 1115385720 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds likely < 1115385725 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't know if that's the right name in English; in spanish it's "punto fijo") < 1115385742 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea either but i assume i see what you mean < 1115385745 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a value such that f(a) = a < 1115385753 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1115385771 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that that's too big a challenge < 1115385780 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most probably < 1115385791 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes at least lot of calculations < 1115385798 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding an MD5 collision has taken many years since MD5 was invented < 1115385810 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's about as much challenging as an MD5 collision < 1115385822 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's md5 collision? < 1115385834 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding two files with the same hash < 1115385837 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1115385842 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that has been done < 1115385858 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two *different* files, that is :) < 1115385868 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is done < 1115385883 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, of course, I think it's been done early this year < 1115385920 0 :KnX!~KnX@juv34-2-82-226-155-84.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1115385932 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea when, but i cna't remember where i found the fact < 1115385939 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1115385939 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was somewhere in wikipedia < 1115385941 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1115385984 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MD4 has been cracked; perhaps it's feasible (for us anyway) to find fixed points (or whatever it is called) with it < 1115386080 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm don't feel much like taking a challenge right now, though - I prefer to try to end my current projects in my scarce spare time < 1115386089 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1115386120 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I've seen GregorR's Ork and I've liked it very much! < 1115386126 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1115386130 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty strange < 1115386136 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and awesome that he made a quine in it < 1115386142 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it can be converted to an educational language even < 1115386147 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1115386171 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and about the challenge: it was mostly for laughs, i didn't even think that anyone would try to solve it!) < 1115386176 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although feel free) < 1115386188 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hehe :) < 1115386194 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1115386198 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm searching peoples who wrote funge-98 interpreters , is there anyone here ? ( i'm trying to write mine, and have some questions ) < 1115386218 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting project, but i haven't seen any < 1115386273 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, /me goes home, bbl < 1115386285 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1115386287 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1115388342 0 :Keymakere!~Not@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1115388389 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made a new befunge quine that's nicely 42 instructions < 1115388393 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> #"25*6*:,2+:,2+2/:,3+:,1-,>:#,_57*1-,@" < 1115388792 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ORK Quine is 102 lines :-P < 1115388803 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think yours is cleaner :-P < 1115388916 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1115388948 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whe does "Keymaker" leave this channel? < 1115388951 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*when < 1115388966 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to change my name already.. < 1115389071 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just gotta wait.. < 1115389149 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll watch the Matrix now. bbl < 1115389152 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Freedom!" < 1115389446 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1115392786 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1115393909 0 :Keymaker!~a@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1115393930 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1115393995 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this time i've been trying to find a f*cking dvd player for ******* Windows.. i just can't find any < 1115394047 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even some trial version is ok, but some that doesn't stop after three minutes (man some are stupid) < 1115394078 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to play 15 minutes breakout to get more calm < 1115394092 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so annoying < 1115394146 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the dvd player here in linux complains something that "error reading NAV packet" < 1115394149 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing else < 1115394155 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate computers!? < 1115394159 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*!! < 1115394165 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1115394172 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGH < 1115394185 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon i'll smash the keyboard through window < 1115394225 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rgh i have to read some linux books. i can't use this. i'm too afraid to try how stuff works. < 1115394249 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can't install any new program here probably, not to mention finding some stuff from web if i need to get something < 1115394265 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i go searching...... i'm so annoyed......... < 1115394270 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1115395425 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re < 1115395437 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: did I already mention that ORK ROKs? :) < 1115398145 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh, yes you did pgimeno, but I have no problem with being showered with praise *shrugs* < 1115398177 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, actually, I was thinking when I was done that it would make a good quick-intro to object oriented programming that doesn't involve concurrently learning C++ syntax. < 1115398208 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still in the middle of writing a howto for it, however. < 1115398333 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keymaker: Win...dows? Isn't that some archaic operating system that nobody uses anymore? (In the happy universe in my head :'( ) < 1115398427 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like these constructs very much and I'm eager to read the specs < 1115398468 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I see no Keymaker around btw, though he usually reads the logs) < 1115399080 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was under the impression that he did. < 1115399102 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My current revision of the specs (which I can't upload from work >_<) are done, but worthless :-P < 1115399413 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any technical writers hang out on #esoteric? :-P < 1115399660 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly remembers pgimeno's article site. < 1115402656 0 :Keymakere!~Not@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1115402660 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1115402671 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate windows < 1115402685 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i throw my dvds away soon grrg < 1115402695 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Keymaker < 1115402711 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well < 1115402731 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read the logs :) < 1115402793 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i wish i wouldn't need to use windows never again < 1115402805 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe later i don't have to < 1115402808 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used Windows in .... < 1115402812 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whew* ... < 1115402821 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1115402823 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even remember the last time I actively used Windows. < 1115402829 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good for you < 1115402844 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I work purely in a UNIX and GNU/Linux environment at work, I run GNU/Linux and the occasional BSD on my home systems.. < 1115402909 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. i wonder has there ever been any medical research about "how $/m windows affects one's health" < 1115402930 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the results would have been that active use of microsoft products causes < 1115402960 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[insert some medical stuff here] < 1115402972 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has there ever been any medical research into the effects of BrainFuck on the human ... err ... brain? < 1115402985 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1115403017 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably be filled with positive stuff how that wonderful language increases brain capacity and keeps brain in good condition < 1115403020 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, time to go to the store >>>>>>>>>> I'll take one of these - and one of these >- and two of those >>>-- < 1115403026 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1115403030 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1115403118 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must go yet again. hopefully i can get to see the dvd.. < 1115403128 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be back lamer < 1115403135 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*later :p < 1115403137 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Freedom!" < 1115403252 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, whoever reads this log in the future, my "lol" up there was in response to Keymaker, not myself, I'm not so lame as to lol to my own joke. < 1115403397 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly realizes the implications of somebody reading the log in the future. < 1115403419 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If somebody reads this log in 2015, when I am inevitably world-famous, what will they think of me? < 1115403438 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :millions of people read #esoteric log every day < 1115403444 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with their morning coffee < 1115403464 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't so much care about current reading ... it's how it reflects on my future. < 1115403479 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will ORK get me hoisted from my position as supreme overlord of Earth? I don't like that thought. < 1115403540 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1115403541 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1115403548 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread. < 1115403558 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason i read that "from" as "to" < 1115403563 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes more sense that way < 1115405358 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: sorry for the delay... about the spec, could I take a look at it somehow? < 1115406426 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not until at least this evening - I can't connect to my work's WLAN on my laptop, and have no other way of transferring off the files, so they languish there until I go home. At that point, of course. < 1115406482 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, this evening in my timezone... < 1115406488 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm GMT-8 < 1115406505 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 11:00AM here < 1115406545 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, tomorrow morning for you I guess. < 1115406575 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, no problem < 1115406602 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even DCC? < 1115406618 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually on my laptop, I'm on my work comp. < 1115406624 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My laptop has no network connection whatsoever. < 1115406638 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you IRCing? < 1115406648 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1115406653 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand now < 1115406918 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always type in the file ;) < 1115406951 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's too much work, you can gzip | uuencode it first so it's smaller < 1115406976 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and type in the uuencoded version < 1115407196 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow! That is brilliant! < 1115407201 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why didn't I think of that?! < 1115407245 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M9&9A:75S:&]D9G5I9&AAs < 1115414238 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write the entire page in SPL 8-D < 1115414259 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I'm currently using PHP but I guess I could port it to something else < 1115414261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't I write a web server in funge98, or was that just a dream? < 1115414269 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thue comes to mind < 1115414274 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1115414279 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1115414307 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see a BF web server ... obviously you would need to run it as " nc -e bfi httpd.bf -l -p 80 " < 1115414361 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid of nc after looking at the code, now I use tcpserver < 1115414470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I added an SCKE extension (with a 'peek for incoming data' command) to augment the SOCK extension, for the web server, but I'm not sure I ever got around to writing the server itself. < 1115414489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually I've been wanting to do some dynamic web-stuff with Scheme, but that's not esoteric either.) < 1115414570 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen some Debian package which was actually a Scheme script somewhere... I don't remember what it was right now < 1115414572 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: Original nc or GNU netcat? < 1115414585 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu netcat? probably not < 1115414593 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one shipped with Debian < 1115414600 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe GNU netcat was a total rewrite. < 1115414602 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be better. < 1115414618 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder, it was a mess < 1115414656 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION files that info somewhere in the queue for later processing < 1115415585 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: I just figured out what you meant so many messages ago about "currently in PHP but I could port it to something else" < 1115415603 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually meant in the design of the page, have little bits of esoteric programming snuck in, not in the language the page is written in. < 1115415656 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean as a background or something? < 1115415722 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I have just reread your sentence < 1115415732 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I understand it better < 1115416228 0 :KnX!~KnX@juv34-2-82-226-155-84.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1115416238 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo < 1115416270 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re KnX < 1115416288 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And behold! < 1115416408 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm searching an efficient implementation for an arbitrary-dimentional funge-space in C, if someone has a good idea ... < 1115417743 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there someone alive for a fingeprint-related question ? < 1115417747 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+r < 1115418482 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1115418521 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingerprint? < 1115418542 0 :GregorR!~GregorR@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1115418596 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's funge-related then I'm not funge-oriented < 1115418631 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funge-related < 1115418659 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry then, I can't help with that < 1115418785 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i remember well my maths , "if ( if it's funge-related then I'm not funge-oriented ) is true , then ( if i'm funge-oriented then it's not funge-related ) is true" , sounds like murphy's law < 1115418854 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe, you're pretty much right I'm afraid < 1115419080 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could get into Befunge ... but I've always found it to be not quite esoteric enough ;) < 1115419083 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just kidding of course. < 1115419133 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to other esoteric , he is very easy to learn and usable , making it less esoteric i think < 1115419166 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FYI, I have a project dedicated to a Malbolge program < 1115419217 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also very easy to learn and usable, ya know < 1115419220 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know malbolge very well, if you have an URL with specs ... < 1115419225 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, now, Malbolge is just TOO esoteric for me. < 1115419231 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1115419250 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbolge_programming_language < 1115419283 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, BF is the PERFECT esoteric language, because it's just minimalist. It's not that it's necessarily designed to hinder you, it's just designed with the minimum number of features to function. < 1115419304 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION raises hand < 1115419317 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that Thue meets these characteristics too < 1115419384 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also love Thue) < 1115419489 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my non-deterministic language of choice < 1115419541 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're very Thue-oriented you can hand-compile Thue programs in most current languages < 1115419596 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C has just such stupid string handling philosophy that doesn't fit well in that cathegory) < 1115419645 0 :Keymakere!~Not@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1115419654 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, brainfuck is perfect < 1115419700 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as well, finally found a working dvd player; VLC media player. had to quit the movie because i started to fall asleep :)) < 1115419705 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As per usual, Gregor is the only person who actually LIKES pointer manipulation. < 1115419718 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not boring but that always happens) < 1115419724 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh < 1115419725 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good! < 1115419739 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, could someone tell me how thue works? < 1115419744 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same 'ere < 1115419747 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a spec < 1115419748 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been trying to understand it couple of times < 1115419754 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't understand it < 1115419757 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'm not saying it's bad, it's just too low-level for certain things < 1115419763 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the official manula doesn't tell almost anything < 1115419763 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhh < 1115419764 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed < 1115419777 0 :Keymakere!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Keymaker < 1115419778 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thue is just pure and mere string substitution < 1115419785 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Keymaker btw < 1115419792 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi :) < 1115419803 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what does that mean? < 1115419806 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thue_programming_language < 1115419832 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, follow the link to the spec, please < 1115419835 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( understanding how thue work is a thing, but understanding how to work with thue .... :/ ) < 1115419839 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, doesn't explain much :) < 1115419848 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1115419885 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.mine.nu:8080/projects/thue/doc/thue.txt < 1115419887 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1115419905 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the manual i meant < 1115419917 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't explain almost anything (at least to me) < 1115419928 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold a sec < 1115419941 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keymaker: Have you taken a logic programming class? < 1115419949 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1115419961 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't had any chance < 1115419970 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that goes well into the deep pit of logic programming :-P < 1115419983 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooh PROLOG, right on the edge of esotiridom. < 1115419986 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1115420014 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like there isn't even mentioned any 0 or 1 in thue.txt yet those example programs are filled with them etc.. < 1115420038 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the manual sucks :p < 1115420041 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20031210145310/http://cyberspace.org/~lament/thue.html < 1115420050 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try the examples < 1115420052 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Archive.org eh :( < 1115420067 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, just another one < 1115420078 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1115420114 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a couple find-and-replace rules and a starting string, that's all < 1115420119 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, is the esolangs page going to have something like an editor's choice of languages? < 1115420121 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are special rules for I/O < 1115420157 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not meant to be a generic page, just the stuff I've dedicated to and perhaps a bit of preservation effort < 1115420163 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh < 1115420175 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as well there's @ and * and . and stuff like that not mentioned in the manual. well, maybe i should try harder to understand it. but someone should make a thue tutorial! < 1115420186 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or at least explain the language to me so i could make one :p) < 1115420186 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nice if it had a "preservation wiki" where people could just copy in stuff that was in threat of doom. < 1115420191 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are just strings, not instructions < 1115420206 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, GregorR < 1115420214 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a wonderful idea < 1115420221 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1115420240 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is thue turing-complete? < 1115420257 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1115420259 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari set up a wiki yesterday or so... < 1115420270 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1115420283 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1115420291 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really would like to learn it < 1115420306 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is drowning in Mozilla tabs and windows < 1115420310 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1115420328 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1115420344 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thue definitely looks like you'd need to take logic programming first ... at least learn prolog from some site online ... it's a fundamentally different programming theory. < 1115420354 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants tree-oriented Mozilla tabs < 1115420361 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1115420371 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be great! :) < 1115420380 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. pretty nice idea! < 1115420383 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the tab-maintanence time would overwhelm the usefulness of such a setup, unless the tabs organized themselves somehow... < 1115420402 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe by site? (google tabs, esoteric.sange.fi tabs...) < 1115420406 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they have to self-organize in some way < 1115420423 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, GregorR, it's a different paradigm but not so hard to try < 1115420449 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe replace the "open in tabs" by "open as new root" , "open as child" , "open as sibling" < 1115420470 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm exaggerating it's strangeness to the average functional/OO programmer. < 1115420511 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody run a third conversation, I want to make sure that the people who read this log have no idea what anybody's talking about. < 1115420537 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1115420562 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll start a third conversation with self-indulgance: http://directnet.sourceforge.net/ 8-D < 1115420577 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, about Mozilla tabs, don't you think that the several open options might make simple actions more confusing? < 1115420596 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have you ever heard of Caves of Gorlop? It's written in Prolog and it's rouge-like. < 1115420632 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is htat some game? < 1115420673 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. But it's written in Prolog so it's really weird. < 1115420680 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1115420697 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merely because logic programming is probably not the best for rouge-like games :-P < 1115420718 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is logic programming? < 1115420729 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmm, brief example ... < 1115420742 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T(X) :- X < 3. < 1115420746 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T(5). < 1115420752 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a stupid example... < 1115420769 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that would say that the predicate T is true where X (its parameter) is less than 3, or equal to 5. < 1115420771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think (after a quick look) that Thue is _that_ much like logic programming. Sure, there's the non-determinism, but Thue seems simply to be an "algorithm" for applying unrestricted grammars, whereas I associate logic programming with a set of structured facts, predicates and a unification system for answering queries about it. < 1115420791 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, grammars and logic programming are sort of related. < 1115420804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything's sort of related. :p < 1115420811 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way back when I was referring to logic programming classes, which is where one would generally first learn about grammars. < 1115420813 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: i see < 1115420897 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Merely because grammars are easier to implement in logic programming than in functional/OO programming) < 1115421076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think here (hut.fi) people usually learn about grammars on "T-79.148 introduction to theoretical computer science", which (for most people) comes before "T-93.540 logic programming". Parsing grammars is another thing, though. (Although intro-to-tcs did have some lecture slides and assignments about using CYK to parse context-free grammars.) < 1115421213 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. I have never seen class numbers look so foreign to me ... < 1115421370 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that Thue is the missing link between Goedel's theorem and Turing's halting problem < 1115421449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The numbers are of the form -<"section">.. 'T' is for computer science ('tietotekniikka'), and 79 is the theoretical computer science lab, whereas 93 would be 'information processing science'.) < 1115421617 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ought to do some work ... < 1115421623 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with my sitting in a cube ... < 1115421625 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not doing work ... < 1115421641 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1115421658 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing/should do? < 1115421707 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a "Software Build Engineer" < 1115421717 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1115421739 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep software up to date across UNIX and GNU/Linux systems. < 1115421748 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open source software, specifically. < 1115421755 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1115421799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But isn't that just apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade?" :p < 1115421877 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are SOOO many stupid issues. < 1115421891 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm using Perl 5.004 and I want PerlQt but not with the latest Qt, I need Qt 3.0" < 1115421918 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was just about keeping everything at the latest, and it was just GNU/Linux, I wouldn't have this job :-P < 1115422413 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rgh.. i'm tired. or well, i don't feel very tired but brain doesn't work, so it's time to get some sleep. it's annoying when you can't concentrate thinking some stuff. like for example i would like to program in brainfuck now but can't even get program idea (or well, i have some but can't get those started with this brain). < 1115422427 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, see you today later/earlier :) < 1115422430 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'nite < 1115422441 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Freedom!" < 1115422568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's 01:30am localtime already. < 1115422595 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn time zones :-P < 1115422598 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0:30 here < 1115422606 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3:30 PM here < 1115422615 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm clearly on the wrong side of the planet ;) < 1115422641 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: If you go to sleep now and wake up early, you can be up in time to get specs on ORK ;) < 1115422648 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like google-translator can't help me , how do you name in english the parts of a finger ( in french it's phallanges FYI ) ? < 1115422670 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a phalanx? < 1115422673 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( yes it's befunge-related ) < 1115422684 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being a native English speaker, I ought to be able to answer that. < 1115422695 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to vote knuckle, but I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for. < 1115422714 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wordreference.com/ < 1115422724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being a non-native speaker, wordnet has "1. (3) phalanx -- (any of the bones (or phalanges) of the fingers or toes)" but I wouldn't have recognized that. < 1115422765 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the plural of phalanx? < 1115422781 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wordreferences doesn't find anything for phallanges < 1115422785 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any native speaker would recognize that word, seems pretty, oh, esoteric to me. < 1115422806 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm, strange < 1115422815 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try with a single "l" < 1115422832 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and singular < 1115422832 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English->French with phalanx gives me phallange , but French->English with phallange doesn't give me anything < 1115422861 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel curious about they searching algorithm / database < 1115422870 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me insist in the single "l" < 1115422881 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1115422884 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the letter L not the number 1) < 1115422902 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phalange. < 1115422916 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the word you want. < 1115422920 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1115422926 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spelled like that, that is. < 1115422941 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than phalanx, which I don't think anybody would recognize. < 1115422948 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1115422964 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1115423015 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just because i have always some difficulties to find names for my variables and structs , and for something a part of a fingerprint, i thought about a phalanxprint, but i think it won't help anybody to understand with a name like this ... < 1115423061 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, shows the hand's bones in the second page < 1115423141 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not use your native tongue? < 1115423231 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer english for C, kind of a standard < 1115423283 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can see the logic behind that - if your code falls into the hands of somebody else, they'll likely at least speak some English. < 1115423293 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because English is taking over the planet >_> < 1115423300 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is both a good thing and a bad thing.