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01:03:26 <GregorR> kipple: I forgot to ask - do you mind if I stick your 99-bottles-of-beer in ORK under the ORK examples?
01:03:48 <kipple> of course not. go ahead :)
01:04:45 <GregorR> BTW, I've been formulating plans to make such things as LLLs possible.
01:04:52 <GregorR> I think I'll have a construct like:
01:04:58 <kipple> LLL?
01:05:08 <GregorR> LLL=linear linked list
01:05:17 <GregorR> What I mean is any object that needs a pointer to another object.
01:05:39 <GregorR> Anyway, constructs like this: A linear linked list can have a next which is a linear linked list.
01:05:40 <kipple> ah yes. that would be nice :)
01:05:50 <GregorR> Then you could set it like: My next is {blah}.
01:05:58 <GregorR> Or: I have a next. (to just make a new one)
01:36:45 <kipple> and then perhaps, you could do: Will is to write my next's next's next's next's next's value  :)
01:45:02 <GregorR> Though if any of those were uninstanciated, you would not be very happy ;)
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03:03:17 <calamari> GregorR: unless your program is the universe.. :)
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03:56:06 <GregorR> That video defies all reason.
03:57:25 <lament> yes.
03:58:15 <GregorR> I just don't even get what he's doing ....
03:58:23 <GregorR> Is he hitting the strings with enough force to cause a vibration?
03:58:33 <GregorR> You'd think that would cause two (possibly dissonant) notes...
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06:02:10 <puzzlet> hello world
06:02:27 <lament> GregorR-L: no
06:02:35 <lament> GregorR-L: since pick-ups are only on one end of the string
06:08:56 <puzzlet> eh.. we have "Babel Fish Research Group" in Korea
06:09:16 <puzzlet> what we do is to research Babel Fish's behaviours
06:09:25 <puzzlet> such as http://www.puzzlet.org/puzzlet/BabelFish~Lama
06:09:47 <lament> swim swim hungry
06:09:54 <lament> oh wait, that's dopefish
06:10:16 <GregorR-L> lament: OH, that's right, it's electric.
06:10:23 <GregorR-L> For some reason that didn't occur to me.
06:10:35 <lament> GregorR-L: yes, and you can play any electric guitar like this.
06:10:42 <GregorR-L> Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
06:10:50 <lament> you can play acoustic ones like that too, it'd just be very soft
06:11:31 * GregorR-L is not a guitarist ;)
06:11:46 <lament> i'm not a guitarist, but i can play the guitar a bit
07:18:22 <puzzlet> hm, my best is http://www.puzzlet.org/puzzlet/BabelFish~%EB%AA%A8%EC%A7%81
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08:30:05 <pgimeno> hi
08:30:43 <puzzlet> hi
08:31:50 <pgimeno> what's that page about, puzzlet? I don't get it (and I don't understand Korean)
08:32:42 <puzzlet> some phrases are iteratively fed to Babel Fish
08:33:07 <puzzlet> and we archive interesting results
08:33:25 <pgimeno> oh
08:33:49 <pgimeno> what's the gnuplot/latex section supposed to graph?
08:34:34 <puzzlet> ah, that's supposed to show the words are increasing quadratically.
08:34:43 <puzzlet> O(n^2)
08:35:47 <pgimeno> oh, I see
08:35:49 <puzzlet> and some other collections in http://www.puzzlet.org/puzzlet/BabelFish~BabelFishAutomata
08:36:10 <pgimeno> I don't see what makes them interesting though
08:36:53 <puzzlet> because it wasn't designed to behave that way
08:37:08 <pgimeno> what wasn't? BabelFish itself?
08:37:21 <puzzlet> BabelFish itself
08:37:35 <pgimeno> oh, I think I'm starting to get it
08:37:55 <puzzlet> not at all, as a translation service
08:39:48 <puzzlet> and some of those phenomena have some strict rules, and we call it "Babel Fish automata"
08:40:49 <puzzlet> translating "Pink"(English) into "Pink-color"(Korean) causes another one: http://www.puzzlet.org/puzzlet/BabelFish~Pink
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08:42:29 <puzzlet> hi
08:42:48 -!- tokigun has joined.
08:44:46 <puzzlet> hi tokigun :)
08:44:54 <tokigun> ;)
08:45:14 <puzzlet> he is a member from Babel Fish Research Group
08:45:23 <pgimeno> oh :)
08:46:31 <pgimeno> aren't there more complex cycles?
08:46:35 <puzzlet> iterative translating manually is so cumbersome, so he and i made an irc bot to do that.
08:47:16 <puzzlet> http://www.puzzlet.org/puzzlet/BabelFish~ItItOfItIt
08:47:18 <puzzlet> 8-cycle
08:47:26 <pgimeno> cool
08:48:38 <puzzlet> we aim for sth like Turing Machine made out of it, but it would be hardly possible ;)
08:49:15 <pgimeno> oh well, Thue works by string substitution, maybe this can do something alike
08:49:28 <puzzlet> Thue?
08:49:32 <pgimeno> yeah
08:49:36 <pgimeno> sec
08:50:05 <pgimeno> see http://catseye.webhop.net/
08:50:40 <pgimeno> Projects: Languages
08:50:47 <puzzlet> ah, so many languages from cat's eye
08:51:01 <tokigun> pgimeno: it's new domain of Cat's Eye Technologies?
08:51:42 <pgimeno> it's a (hopefully permanent) redirector
08:52:12 <tokigun> oh.
08:53:09 <pgimeno> maybe cpressey himself can tell us more precisely
08:53:25 <puzzlet> oh, there he is
08:53:31 <lament> holy crap
08:53:33 <lament> i never noticed
08:53:38 <lament> cpressey indeed
08:53:40 <puzzlet> me neither
08:53:51 <lament> this channel sure has grown
08:54:05 <pgimeno> heh, it's about the first thing I notice when I first entered some days ago
08:54:11 <pgimeno> *noticed
08:54:23 * lament kicks cpressey 
08:54:40 * lament stomps on cpressey's head
08:54:50 <lament> i'm not sure if he's conscious
08:55:02 <pgimeno> if he was, now he isn't ;)
08:55:02 <puzzlet> hey let him go
08:55:43 * puzzlet is reading Thue documentation
08:56:18 <lament> i had written a nice Thue interpreter in javascript
08:56:21 <lament> and then it vanished :(
08:56:29 <lament> so sad
08:56:35 <pgimeno> there's one in the wayback machine, is it yours?
08:56:40 <lament> where where
08:56:47 <pgimeno> hm
08:56:48 <lament> link!
08:56:57 <pgimeno> it's in my bookmarks, hold on
08:57:29 * lament holds on tight
08:57:35 <pgimeno> oh, yeah it's yours
08:57:37 <pgimeno> http://web.archive.org/web/20031210145310/http://cyberspace.org/~lament/thue.html
08:58:08 <lament> oh god
08:58:10 <lament> cyberspace.org
08:58:13 <lament> that was so long ago
08:58:26 <lament> thanks thanks
08:58:35 <pgimeno> np
08:59:06 <puzzlet> wow
08:59:12 <lament> okay, now the official home address is http://z3.ca/~lament/thue.html
08:59:42 <pgimeno> nice, I'll add it to my bookmarks (but I'll keep the wayback machine one just in case)
09:01:06 <lament> i think i wrote it at work :)
09:01:38 <lament> it's nice that wayback machine archives js as well as html
09:01:50 <pgimeno> and in some cases even .zip
09:02:27 <pgimeno> that's how I've managed to recover the True distribution (which is based, quite unsurprisingly, in False)
09:03:14 <puzzlet> Another Game of Text - http://puzzlet.org/tmp/pipe.htm
09:03:27 <puzzlet> Compare with http://puzzlet.org/tmp/braille.htm
09:07:38 <pgimeno> puzzlet, would you mind adding Arial Unicode MS to the list of fallback fonts?
09:08:01 <puzzlet> of course not
09:08:22 <tokigun> it is celluar automaton!
09:08:27 <puzzlet> i just don't know much about unicode fonts
09:08:39 <tokigun> cellular
09:09:02 <lament> the sierpinsky triangle thue program has such a pretty memory state
09:09:21 <pgimeno> and Courier New just in case... the font that gets used here is not proportional :(
09:09:22 <puzzlet> didn't*
09:11:33 <pgimeno> cool!
09:11:40 <pgimeno> it's proportional now
09:12:38 <puzzlet> i gotta be away from my keyboard
09:12:41 <tokigun> lament: links at http://z3.ca/~lament/ascii-art.html seem to be broken
09:13:19 <lament> no shit
09:13:50 <lament> i'll have to recover all that as well
09:13:58 <lament> just look at http://web.archive.org/web/20031218155802/cyberspace.org/~lament/ instead
09:14:13 <tokigun> thanks
09:14:15 <lament> mind you the page is 2 years old
09:14:17 <tokigun> :)
09:28:59 <tokigun> sorry but i'll be back.
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09:29:07 <lament> sorry but i won't
09:29:09 * lament sleeps
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11:41:58 <pgimeno> I think it would be a good idea to write an ORK version of the CSS descrambler; ORK is just so verbose and explanatory that it could serve as a boost to the freedom-of-speech point
11:44:06 <kipple> perhaps
11:44:37 <kipple> are you volunteering?  ;)
11:44:43 <pgimeno> maybe
11:45:00 <pgimeno> an ORK interpreter is higher in my list of priorities
11:45:16 <kipple> initializing those arrays will be quite a lot of code...
11:45:31 <kipple> that would also be nice :)
11:46:34 <pgimeno> ORK is half the way towards an usable teaching language
11:52:26 <kipple> I somehow doubt that is Greg's intention
11:53:27 <pgimeno> well, he agreed that it was halfway usable for object-oriented programming teaching
11:53:42 <pgimeno> just I think that that's not his priority
11:55:38 <kipple> Wow. I just looked at the perl CSS descrambler on the CSS gallery. Perl has to be the most esoteric of the regular languages :)
11:56:14 <pgimeno> haha, I think so
11:56:36 <pgimeno> that's been commented here a few days ago
11:56:47 <kipple> then again, the tiniest C version is almost just as bad
11:57:55 <kipple> or good, depending on your point of view :)
11:59:09 <pgimeno> obfuscated
11:59:17 <kipple> yeah
11:59:48 <pgimeno> btw, the IOCCC has become a tiny coding contest these days... sorta lost some interest
14:00:41 <GregorR> Hoi
14:01:06 <GregorR> It's curious that people have taken an interest in ORK ;)
14:05:00 -!- Keymaker has joined.
14:05:12 <Keymaker> it's weeeeeeeeeeekeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeend!!!
14:05:19 <GregorR> SHUT UP
14:05:21 <GregorR> >_<
14:05:23 <Keymaker> :p
14:05:25 <GregorR> You and your time zones.
14:05:32 <Keymaker> hehe
14:05:34 <GregorR> I haven't even gone to work on Friday yet >_<
14:05:40 <Keymaker> hahaha!!!!!!!!
14:05:55 <Keymaker> but notice when i'm worrying about monday
14:05:58 <Keymaker> you can spend sunday
14:06:07 <fizzie> I just woke up, and it's 16:00.
14:06:12 <Keymaker> lol
14:06:16 <GregorR> fizzie: Awesome :-P
14:06:22 <Keymaker> and we are on same time zone!
14:06:22 <fizzie> I haven't gone to work on Friday yet either. :p
14:06:27 <Keymaker> :)
14:06:45 <Keymaker> may i ask how you managed to sleep so late?
14:06:55 <fizzie> I was pretty tired, what with not sleeping more than ~3 hours/night during the last week.
14:07:05 <GregorR> fizzie pulls out his marijuana - "And this helped too"
14:07:16 <Keymaker> :)
14:07:29 * GregorR has no clue whether that would actually help.
14:07:34 <GregorR> Is it an upper or a downer?  Idonno
14:07:37 <fizzie> Me neither.
14:07:41 <fizzie> I guess it might.
14:07:45 <fizzie> Besides, I slept only 0300 -> 1600, which is just 13 hours.
14:08:04 <GregorR> I woke up at 5:30AM
14:08:28 <Keymaker> i woke up at 6:30
14:08:29 <GregorR> *brain melts*
14:08:33 <Keymaker> :)
14:08:51 <fizzie> You people are weird.
14:09:02 <GregorR> fizzie: I wouldn't if I didn't have to go to work.
14:09:44 <Keymaker> :D
14:11:02 <Keymaker> anyways;
14:11:07 <Keymaker> about the stuff on logs
14:11:15 <Keymaker> interesting stuff as there has been lately
14:11:33 <Keymaker> ORK version of decss would be worth of seeing
14:12:40 <Keymaker> lament: you know dopefish too?!
14:12:45 <Keymaker> highly cool!
14:13:07 <GregorR> Hmm
14:13:11 <GregorR> -ChanServ-    Alternate: lament, last seen: 4 days (10h 4m 1s) ago
14:13:17 * GregorR looks at lament.
14:13:19 <GregorR> -ChanServ-    Alternate: lament, last seen: 4 days (10h 4m 1s) ago
14:13:22 <GregorR> Hmm
14:13:35 <Keymaker> lol
14:14:08 <Keymaker> as well, that cpressey stuff was fun
14:14:37 <Keymaker> anyways;
14:15:01 <Keymaker> puzzlet (and tokigun): that Babel Fish Research Group is really cool idea i think
14:15:07 <Keymaker> good luck with the project
14:15:20 <Keymaker> as well, publish some results in english ;)
14:20:21 <Keymaker> on a sidenote; has anyone seen a film called the Audition?
14:20:33 <Keymaker> it seems to be some horror movie
14:20:40 <Keymaker> they show here on tv tonight
14:21:12 <Keymaker> i usually don't watch movies from tv, but just thought this one might be worth seeing
14:21:16 <Keymaker> anyone seen it?
14:22:39 <GregorR> Never heard of it *shrugs*
14:22:55 <GregorR> How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? -> BABEL FISH -> How much wood is arctomys possible because arctomys it can the wood tap strike slightly?
14:23:13 <Keymaker> :)
14:23:51 <GregorR> Well, off to work.
14:24:16 <Keymaker> bye!
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14:25:49 <Keymaker> "The last section of the film is one of the most brutal torture scenes ever put on celluloid, and it is definitely not for the faint of heart. But even in its gore-filled shockingness, the film is beautiful to look at, a monumental achievement by a director willing to take chances and challenge his audience."
14:25:54 <Keymaker> http://www.moviesonline.ca/movie_details.php?id=105
14:26:51 <Keymaker> we'll see.. :)
14:32:30 <fizzie> I'm trying to find a fixed point of the ps2pdf/pdf2ps conversion pair.
14:34:02 <fizzie> It is being difficult. Apparently each successive iteration adds 13 bytes to the postscript.
14:34:49 <Keymaker> is it somekind of task?
14:34:51 <fizzie> Hmm. The 13 bytes consist of the lines "0 0 0 0 re" and "f".
14:34:57 <fizzie> No, no, was just curious.
14:34:59 <Keymaker> ok
14:36:22 <fizzie> Interesting, though. The original postscript was 92603 bytes, after the first iteration it had increased to 99447 bytes, but after the second it suddenly jumped to 1714687 bytes.
14:36:36 <fizzie> (That's ~100k -> 1.7M.)
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17:45:34 <pgimeno> y0
17:45:48 <kipple> ho
17:46:11 <pgimeno> fizzie: have you managed to ever get a decreasing number?
17:46:57 <lindi-> fizzie: what version of ghostscript btw?
17:48:00 <pgimeno> I'm not the postscript-oriented kind of guy
17:50:55 <pgimeno> anyway I'm curious about what the results are with the conversion
17:51:17 <fizzie> ESP Ghostscript 7.07.1 (2003-07-12)
18:08:00 -!- Keymaker has joined.
18:08:07 <Keymaker> ahh
18:08:09 <Keymaker> back home
18:08:16 <puzzlet> good
18:08:21 <puzzlet> hello
18:08:36 <Keymaker> hi
18:09:31 <puzzlet> surprisingly Wikipedia had launched hieroglyph support
18:09:39 <puzzlet> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:WikiHiero_syntax
18:09:55 <puzzlet> what it has to do with esoteric languages
18:11:28 <puzzlet> programming in hieroglyph seems classic, though :)
18:13:57 <Keymaker> hehe
18:24:00 <Keymaker> grh.. must go
18:24:01 <pgimeno> re Keymaker 
18:24:04 <pgimeno> doh
18:24:05 <Keymaker> bbl
18:24:06 <pgimeno> bye Keymaker 
18:24:09 <Keymaker> :)
18:24:11 <Keymaker> hi and bye
18:24:14 -!- Keymaker has quit ("Freedom!").
18:24:20 <pgimeno> fizzie: about the size reduction, did you manage to get any?
18:36:48 <fizzie> No, the ps size is always monotonically increasing, and the pdf is quite constant.
18:36:51 <fizzie> See http://gehennom.org/~fis/ps2pdf.txt
18:49:20 <GregorR> Because I have waay to much free time, I've actually studied Hieroglyphs and the Ancient Egyptian language and grammar.
18:49:29 <GregorR> Aaaaand ... back to work :P
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21:01:27 <Keymaker> hi
21:01:29 <Keymaker> good news
21:01:43 <Keymaker> bf-hacks.org should be ready in 48
21:01:54 <pgimeno> secs?
21:01:55 <pgimeno> 47
21:01:56 <pgimeno> 46
21:01:57 <pgimeno> 45
21:01:58 <pgimeno> ...
21:02:02 <Keymaker> seems i've received e-mail that told me that it should be functional in 48 hours :)
21:02:05 <Keymaker> hehe
21:02:23 <pgimeno> neat!
21:02:28 <Keymaker> yah
21:02:39 <Keymaker> better make some programs fast :)
21:04:22 <Keymaker> it's kinda neat how easy it is to do stuff via web.. like i just ordered the domain and paid it in web :)
21:06:35 <pgimeno> do you have any plans apart from the design?
21:06:48 <Keymaker> plans?
21:06:50 <Keymaker> :)
21:06:55 <pgimeno> about the contents
21:06:55 <Keymaker> well, there's link section
21:07:01 <Keymaker> yeah
21:07:10 <Keymaker> i have thought about making some section called "Study"
21:07:12 <Keymaker> or something
21:07:19 <Keymaker> which would have interesting stuff about brainfuck
21:07:32 <Keymaker> (the problem is to write this interesting stuff.. ;))
21:08:12 <pgimeno> oh well, it's easy, you know, just write it
21:08:13 <pgimeno> :)
21:08:25 <Keymaker> heh
21:08:38 <Keymaker> i guess i can get something done
21:08:51 <Keymaker> although that might appear long after the site is in web :)
21:09:01 <pgimeno> (that's true also for the Great Unification Theorem of Quantum Mechanics and Relativity, of course)
21:16:14 <Keymaker> mmh.. pepsi..
21:16:38 <pgimeno> is that spam or something? :P
21:16:49 <pgimeno> j/k
21:18:12 <Keymaker> :)
21:18:17 <Keymaker> DRINK PEPSI!
21:18:38 <Keymaker> (just earned my 0.005$ :))
21:18:55 <pgimeno> hehe
21:18:59 <Keymaker> :)
21:21:12 <Keymaker> hmmm.. seems the audition (movie) starts in 15 minutes
21:22:08 <pgimeno> k
21:22:20 <Keymaker> well, there's still time..
21:22:30 <Keymaker> btw
21:22:38 <Keymaker> what you're doing pgimeno?
21:22:44 <Keymaker> that website of yours?
21:23:27 <pgimeno> yes, I'm working in deep changes
21:23:33 <Keymaker> ok
21:24:12 <pgimeno> I wanted to write about my Malbolge adventure but there was no room for it, so I thought it was about time of updating it
21:24:21 <Keymaker> :)
21:24:29 <Keymaker> sounds like a good reading material
21:26:37 <Keymaker> hmm
21:26:49 <Keymaker> seems i haven't managed to do almost anything in few weeks
21:26:52 <Keymaker> or possible more
21:27:07 <Keymaker> i wonder what i have been doing.. probably just chatting on this channel
21:27:19 <Keymaker> or surfing random websites
21:27:22 <Keymaker> :\
21:27:36 <pgimeno> oh, surfing random websites is my source for inspiration
21:27:42 <Keymaker> heh
21:27:44 <pgimeno> did you read my Minesweeper article?
21:27:51 <Keymaker> i should reread it
21:27:56 <Keymaker> it seemed good
21:28:02 <Keymaker> but i didn't concentrate much
21:28:05 <Keymaker> i'll read it again
21:28:12 <Keymaker> interesting idea
21:28:17 <pgimeno> it needs a bit of knowledge of logic gates
21:28:33 <Keymaker> yeah, i have some knowledge of those
21:28:41 <pgimeno> I just asked to show how I include lots of references of what I've visited
21:28:58 <Keymaker> hm?
21:29:01 <Keymaker> asked who?
21:29:08 <pgimeno> asked if you've read it
21:29:12 <Keymaker> oh
21:29:36 <pgimeno> just to prove my point that it's my source of inspiration :)
21:29:43 <Keymaker> :)
21:31:24 <Keymaker> but gotta go!
21:31:26 <Keymaker> bye
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21:32:18 <pgimeno> hope you enjoy the movie
23:45:07 <kipple> GregorR: which version of your page is the "official" one (i.e. which should I bookmark). befunge.org or formauri.es?
23:49:57 -!- Keymaker has joined.
23:50:01 <Keymaker> hi
23:50:13 <GregorR> kipple: http://eso.codu.org/  For the moment it points to befunge.org, but I'll change it if it becomes necessary to.
23:50:20 <GregorR> Hi and bye (back to work ;) )
23:50:24 <kipple> ah. niceĻ
23:50:27 <Keymaker> :)
23:50:28 <kipple> and bye :)
23:50:36 <pgimeno> hi Keymaker
23:50:45 <Keymaker> hi
23:50:48 <kipple> hi
23:50:54 <Keymaker> i hadn't guts to watch the movie :)
23:50:59 <Keymaker> it was getting too bizarre
23:51:06 <pgimeno> uh
23:51:12 <Keymaker> strange
23:51:29 <pgimeno> I was about to ask :)
23:51:33 <Keymaker> :)
23:51:35 <pgimeno> I'm not a gore genre fan
23:51:44 <Keymaker> not me either
23:52:06 <Keymaker> really scary
23:52:12 <kipple> speaking of which: Have you seen Braindead :)
23:52:16 <Keymaker> hmm
23:52:19 <Keymaker> no :)
23:52:24 <Keymaker> (except in mirror)
23:52:27 * pgimeno prefers fuck rather than dead
23:52:33 <Keymaker> :)
23:52:34 <pgimeno> (sorry for the strong words)
23:52:38 <kipple> np
23:52:56 <Keymaker> it has good point
23:54:17 <Keymaker> btw
23:54:27 <Keymaker> where was that minesweeper stuff again?
23:54:30 <Keymaker> i would reread it now
23:54:42 <GregorR> By the way, I got pointer support working in ORK, but as per usual I'm at work and can't upload it :-P
23:54:51 <Keymaker> :)
23:54:54 <Keymaker> well, get home then!
23:55:04 <kipple> call in sick!
23:55:05 <pgimeno> http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/compurec/Minesweeper.php
23:55:10 <Keymaker> cheers
23:55:15 <kipple> ;)
23:55:15 <GregorR> I'm on a timecard, so if I leave, I get less 444
23:55:21 <GregorR> With dollar signs.
23:55:26 <GregorR> That I apparently can't type over VNC.
23:55:42 <Keymaker> :)
23:56:02 <pgimeno> GregorR: I have a few aspects to discuss with you about hosting, when you have the time
23:58:00 <GregorR> If you don't mind a slow, broken discussion, ask away ;)
23:58:44 <pgimeno> the main problem is that the server doesn't allow publishing directories
23:58:51 <pgimeno> http://www.formauri.es/personal/GregorR/
23:59:34 <pgimeno> pointing a link to a directory causes a 403