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20:21:31 <Keymaker> grhh.. something's wrong with this connection today.. i'd rather have one of those power outages than this, afterall i could look at the screen in candle light just as easily..
20:23:42 <kipple> it's been quiet here lately
20:24:05 <Keymaker> (and will be the next week and bit more)
20:24:15 <Keymaker> and then i can spend here more time.. i hope..
20:25:03 <kipple> I've started putting together an esoteric web page
20:25:10 <kipple> but not much stuff yet
20:25:18 <fizzie> My exam period is over!
20:25:33 <Keymaker> mine is about to start next week..
20:25:35 <fizzie> Now if I could just get rid of tiredness..
20:25:58 <fizzie> That's what I've been trying.
20:25:59 <kipple> yeah, you might try that
20:26:28 <Keymaker> hmm.. try to watch tv. everything's so (#/)(#321! boring there thesedays
20:26:41 <kipple> I'm off to see Lost in 10 mins...
20:26:59 <pgimeno> (#/)(#321! - is that a new esolang?
20:27:37 <fizzie> I was also going to teach/promote Befunge to my girlfriend, so that she'd appreciate esolangs more. I'm currently trying to decide if that's a good idea or not.
20:28:41 <Keymaker> pgimeno: you wish.. just random keys
20:28:51 <fizzie> I think I recall her mentioning she liked Scheme more than C, so...
20:29:29 <pgimeno> oh well, maybe she's lambda-oriented
20:29:55 <pgimeno> I meant lambda calculus in general
20:30:18 <Keymaker> i'd like to learn unlambda sometime
20:30:23 <fizzie> Befunge isn't very functional, though. But I don't speak unlambda at all myself.
20:30:26 <Keymaker> although it's not my cup of tea either
20:30:54 <pgimeno> I'm not very comfortable with Scheme, I use it as any other imperative language
20:31:11 <kipple> isn't that the Lisp-like lang?
20:31:23 <fizzie> Most people do call it a lisp dialect.
20:31:35 <fizzie> It's a lot cleaner than common lisp, though.
20:31:50 <kipple> Lisp is extremely cool, but I wouldn't use it normally
20:31:56 <pgimeno> I needed it to write GIMP scripts, that's why I learned it
20:32:54 <fizzie> Our "introduction to programming" course I went to a ~year ago has traditionally used Scheme. (Although they moved to Java now.)
20:33:51 <pgimeno> they'll be teaching ork when there's a virtual machine compiler ready
20:34:09 <fizzie> We've been quite unhappy about the switch, actually. Java courses tend to teach Java, not programming.
20:34:18 <kipple> there's an old joke which is something like: "We've stolen the Lisp source code to [insert some famous software], and to prove it we will give you the last page".
20:34:31 <kipple> then they give you a page full of ))))))))))))))))))
20:34:50 <pgimeno> oh well, Derive (the math package) is written in Lisp
20:35:15 <fizzie> I don't think I've had more than 14 consecutive )s, but I haven't written anything very big in scheme. A corewars interpreter/environment/thing once.
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20:35:18 <pgimeno> as is Maxima (the math package)
20:36:01 <GregorR-L> Gregor needs to be entertained for an hour of free time in the middle of his day :-P
20:36:08 <pgimeno> corewars interpreter? uhm, too big a prog for me to write in that thing, I'm no so masochists
20:36:33 <pgimeno> that's why I'm using malbolge :)
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20:39:29 <lament> you know what's boring?
20:39:31 <fizzie> Well, it was for the course, not a voluntary thing. The list of possible topics mostly included various small games, corewars sounded most interesting of them. (Compared to a spreadsheet application or graph algorithm visualization.)
20:39:32 <lament> this CS lab is boring.
20:39:45 <fizzie> Besides, the "gui toolkit" (if you can call it that) we were supposed to use was... horrible.
20:40:17 <fizzie> http://www.cs.hut.fi/Studies/T-93.210/xdraw-doc/
20:40:26 <fizzie> It can draw lines and fill rectangles, and that's about it.
20:40:44 <fizzie> A "do your own widgets" thing.
20:42:22 <pgimeno> only marginally better than plain DOS
20:43:18 <fizzie> I guess they wanted all applications to have different-looking buttons, otherwise inspecting the results would've been too boring.
20:45:02 <GregorR-L> I'm sooooooooo close to a working Kipple interpreter :-P
20:45:04 <pgimeno> that's only an excuse if the only available GUI was Athena widgets
20:46:16 <pgimeno> GregorR-L: on line 585 what?
20:47:12 <Keymaker> (on a sidenote, i was away for a while because i was eating evening-breakfast)
20:49:30 <fizzie> Well, xdraw is admittedly quite portable... although a significant minority (if not majority) of the submitted programs had issues with text placement on the IRIX boxen the demo sessions were on. (Default fonts on those things are _huge_.)
20:49:58 <fizzie> Not many had sophisticated layout managers to cope with different font sizes. :p
20:51:23 <pgimeno> GregorR-L: what's the status of arrays in Ork?
20:52:05 <fizzie> And what about non-string/number-arrays?
20:56:13 <fizzie> Ooh, and generics/templates. Then someone can implement rest of the collection classes in ORK. "There is such a thing as a hashmap of K, V. A hashmap of K, V has a key which is a K. --- I have a hashmap of number, string called map."
20:59:14 <GregorR-L> For other arrays you'd need to use something like linear linked lists.
20:59:53 <GregorR-L> And templates would just be a matter of writing them - anybody want to volunteer?
21:00:45 <fizzie> Well, linked lists aren't that bad.
21:01:43 <fizzie> But a generic 'void *'-style type could help. It's a bit silly to have a separate linked list class for oranges and apples.
21:02:49 <fizzie> I probably won't have time to consider volunteering or anything before next week, though.
21:12:00 <Keymaker> anyways. good luck with the kipple interpreter gergor
21:13:24 <Keymaker> rhh.. me start to be reading-ready. me goes to bed to read something.
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21:17:47 <pgimeno> -lilo/Wallops- Hi all. Just a reminder. We're still looking for help with coding the next generation replacement for services. The project is at its very early stages; have spec, need coder help.
21:18:45 <pgimeno> http://dunnage.blogspot.com/2005/05/reprise-seeking-volunteer-coding-help.html
21:19:32 <pgimeno> -lilo/Wallops- Right now, I think the python help would be the priority. If you're interested in talking about it, feel free to message me. Thanks.
21:19:43 <lament> oh, not that kind of expert :)
21:27:11 <kipple> Gregor: great news about the interpreter! can't wait :)
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23:14:18 <GregorR-L> OK, I have everything working except input, output, @ and the string preprocessor :-P
23:14:36 <kipple> the preprocessor is optional
23:14:53 * GregorR-L tosses the preprocessor out the window
23:15:35 <GregorR-L> So, kipple, quick question, if the input was "Hello World!" the ! would pop first, right?
23:16:49 <GregorR-L> And if you produced output by pushing H-e-l-l-o, it would output "olleH", yes?
23:20:59 <kipple> btw, the @ stack will probably be gone in the next version... :D
23:23:16 <GregorR-L> Making wussy users use atoi is infinitely better anyway.
23:24:06 <kipple> but I don't think you'll want to implement the next version in ORK ;)
23:24:31 <kipple> it has the ability to load code modules
23:25:45 <kipple> or kipple files, java classes or C libraries
23:27:13 <kipple> or anything else that can produce a .so or .dll
23:27:59 <GregorR-L> Or would it actually read .class files?
23:28:12 <kipple> it is written in java, so that is trivial
23:28:59 <kipple> did you have to add more features to ORK to make it?
23:29:20 <kipple> so it's pretty final now?
23:29:30 <GregorR-L> Hopefully I just have to get o working.
23:31:09 <GregorR-L> 1161 lines, and maybe working now 8-D
23:37:35 <GregorR-L> Apparently either i or o isn't quite working properly :'(
23:51:10 <GregorR-L> If you push ASCII 113 onto @, does it pop 1-1-3 or 3-1-1?
23:52:03 <kipple> it pushes 1-1-3, so yes, you're right
23:53:04 <kipple> that's the most practial way to pop. Otherwise you would have to reverse it before output
23:58:22 <GregorR-L> Or more correctly, my interpreter isn't working for the Fibonacci'r.
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