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20:13:09 <Keymaker> hëllo
20:21:31 <Keymaker> grhh.. something's wrong with this connection today.. i'd rather have one of those power outages than this, afterall i could look at the screen in candle light just as easily..
20:21:49 <kipple> :)
20:22:12 <Keymaker> :)
20:22:48 <kipple> hello, btw.. :)
20:23:31 <Keymaker> yeah. hi!
20:23:42 <kipple> it's been quiet here lately
20:23:46 <Keymaker> yeah
20:23:57 <Keymaker> i've been annoyingly busy
20:24:05 <Keymaker> (and will be the next week and bit more)
20:24:15 <Keymaker> and then i can spend here more time.. i hope..
20:25:03 <kipple> I've started putting together an esoteric web page
20:25:10 <Keymaker> that's cool!
20:25:10 <kipple> but not much stuff yet
20:25:15 <Keymaker> ok
20:25:18 <fizzie> My exam period is over! 
20:25:23 <Keymaker> nice
20:25:25 <kipple> good for you
20:25:33 <Keymaker> mine is about to start next week..
20:25:35 <fizzie> Now if I could just get rid of tiredness..
20:25:42 <Keymaker> sleep?
20:25:58 <fizzie> That's what I've been trying.
20:25:59 <kipple> yeah, you might try that
20:26:04 <Keymaker> :)
20:26:28 <Keymaker> hmm.. try to watch tv. everything's so (#/)(¤#321! boring there thesedays
20:26:41 <kipple> I'm off to see Lost in 10 mins...
20:26:56 <Keymaker> ok (whatever it is)
20:26:59 <pgimeno>  (#/)(¤#321! - is that a new esolang?
20:27:15 <kipple> it could be
20:27:37 <fizzie> I was also going to teach/promote Befunge to my girlfriend, so that she'd appreciate esolangs more. I'm currently trying to decide if that's a good idea or not.
20:27:55 <kipple> ummm
20:28:01 <kipple> sounds risky... :)
20:28:17 <Keymaker> :)
20:28:41 <Keymaker> pgimeno: you wish.. just random keys
20:28:51 <fizzie> I think I recall her mentioning she liked Scheme more than C, so...
20:29:29 <pgimeno> oh well, maybe she's lambda-oriented
20:29:30 <Keymaker> :)
20:29:44 <kipple> unlambda you mean
20:29:51 <Keymaker> probably
20:29:55 <pgimeno> I meant lambda calculus in general
20:29:59 <kipple> ah
20:30:05 <kipple> not my cup of tea
20:30:07 <pgimeno> unlambda may fit well
20:30:18 <Keymaker> i'd like to learn unlambda sometime
20:30:21 <pgimeno> or jot
20:30:23 <fizzie> Befunge isn't very functional, though. But I don't speak unlambda at all myself.
20:30:26 <Keymaker> although it's not my cup of tea either
20:30:30 <pgimeno> me too, Keymaker 
20:30:46 <Keymaker> it's too strange :}
20:30:54 <pgimeno> I'm not very comfortable with Scheme, I use it as any other imperative language
20:31:01 <Keymaker> never tried that
20:31:07 <Keymaker> didn't like its look
20:31:11 <kipple> isn't that the Lisp-like lang?
20:31:15 <pgimeno> yes
20:31:22 <kipple> I've tried Lisp
20:31:23 <fizzie> Most people do call it a lisp dialect.
20:31:28 <kipple> ok
20:31:35 <fizzie> It's a lot cleaner than common lisp, though.
20:31:47 <pgimeno> agree
20:31:50 <kipple> Lisp is extremely cool, but I wouldn't use it normally
20:31:56 <pgimeno> I needed it to write GIMP scripts, that's why I learned it
20:32:54 <fizzie> Our "introduction to programming" course I went to a ~year ago has traditionally used Scheme. (Although they moved to Java now.)
20:33:11 <pgimeno> eek
20:33:51 <pgimeno> they'll be teaching ork when there's a virtual machine compiler ready
20:34:09 <fizzie> We've been quite unhappy about the switch, actually. Java courses tend to teach Java, not programming.
20:34:18 <kipple> there's an old joke which is something like: "We've stolen the  Lisp source code to [insert some famous software], and to prove it we will give you the last page". 
20:34:26 <pgimeno> yeah, too idiosyncratic
20:34:31 <kipple> then they give you a page full of ))))))))))))))))))
20:34:39 <pgimeno> hehehehe
20:34:50 <pgimeno> oh well, Derive (the math package) is written in Lisp
20:35:15 <fizzie> I don't think I've had more than 14 consecutive )s, but I haven't written anything very big in scheme. A corewars interpreter/environment/thing once.
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20:35:18 <pgimeno> as is Maxima (the math package)
20:35:21 <pgimeno> hi GregorR 
20:35:24 <pgimeno> hi GregorR-L 
20:35:27 <GregorR-L> Hoi
20:36:01 <GregorR-L> Gregor needs to be entertained for an hour of free time in the middle of his day :-P
20:36:08 <pgimeno> corewars interpreter? uhm, too big a prog for me to write in that thing, I'm no so masochists
20:36:23 <pgimeno> -s
20:36:30 * kipple is gone to watch TV
20:36:33 <pgimeno> that's why I'm using malbolge :)
20:36:37 <lament> hi all
20:36:42 <pgimeno> hi lament
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20:39:29 <lament> you know what's boring?
20:39:31 <fizzie> Well, it was for the course, not a voluntary thing. The list of possible topics mostly included various small games, corewars sounded most interesting of them. (Compared to a spreadsheet application or graph algorithm visualization.)
20:39:32 <lament> this CS lab is boring.
20:39:45 <fizzie> Besides, the "gui toolkit" (if you can call it that) we were supposed to use was... horrible.
20:40:17 <fizzie> http://www.cs.hut.fi/Studies/T-93.210/xdraw-doc/
20:40:26 <fizzie> It can draw lines and fill rectangles, and that's about it.
20:40:44 <fizzie> A "do your own widgets" thing.
20:41:48 <pgimeno> argh
20:42:22 <pgimeno> only marginally better than plain DOS
20:43:18 <fizzie> I guess they wanted all applications to have different-looking buttons, otherwise inspecting the results would've been too boring.
20:45:02 <GregorR-L> I'm sooooooooo close to a working Kipple interpreter :-P
20:45:02 <GregorR-L> On line 585
20:45:04 <pgimeno> that's only an excuse if the only available GUI was Athena widgets
20:45:27 <pgimeno> s/GUI/widget set/
20:46:16 <pgimeno> GregorR-L: on line 585 what?
20:46:33 <Keymaker> w000000000000000000000t!
20:46:42 <Keymaker> keep working gregorr!
20:46:48 <Keymaker> sounds impressive
20:47:12 <Keymaker> (on a sidenote, i was away for a while because i was eating evening-breakfast)
20:49:30 <fizzie> Well, xdraw is admittedly quite portable... although a significant minority (if not majority) of the submitted programs had issues with text placement on the IRIX boxen the demo sessions were on. (Default fonts on those things are _huge_.)
20:49:58 <fizzie> Not many had sophisticated layout managers to cope with different font sizes. :p
20:50:12 <GregorR-L> Of OrKipple
20:50:12 <GregorR-L> It pushes now :P
20:50:59 <Keymaker> good!
20:51:23 <pgimeno> GregorR-L: what's the status of arrays in Ork?
20:51:38 <pgimeno> inexistent?
20:51:46 <pgimeno> complete?
20:52:05 <fizzie> And what about non-string/number-arrays? 
20:52:38 <pgimeno> an OOL needs O arrays
20:52:47 <Keymaker> OOL?
20:52:52 <pgimeno> object-oriented language
20:52:57 <Keymaker> ah.
20:56:13 <fizzie> Ooh, and generics/templates. Then someone can implement rest of the collection classes in ORK. "There is such a thing as a hashmap of K, V. A hashmap of K, V has a key which is a K. --- I have a hashmap of number, string called map."
20:59:01 <GregorR-L> Oh, hi.
20:59:14 <GregorR-L> For other arrays you'd need to use something like linear linked lists.
20:59:20 <GregorR-L> For the moment *shrugs*
20:59:53 <GregorR-L> And templates would just be a matter of writing them - anybody want to volunteer?
21:00:45 <fizzie> Well, linked lists aren't that bad.
21:01:43 <fizzie> But a generic 'void *'-style type could help. It's a bit silly to have a separate linked list class for oranges and apples.
21:01:54 <fizzie> Or the templates. :p
21:02:49 <fizzie> I probably won't have time to consider volunteering or anything before next week, though.
21:12:00 <Keymaker> anyways. good luck with the kipple interpreter gergor
21:12:04 <Keymaker> *grrog
21:12:08 <Keymaker> *gregorr
21:12:19 <pgimeno> too much grog?
21:12:24 <Keymaker> :)
21:13:24 <Keymaker> rhh.. me start to be reading-ready. me goes to bed to read something.
21:14:26 * Keymaker says: "Goodnite! Aaarrrgh."
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21:14:47 <fizzie> Arrr.
21:16:42 <pgimeno> any python expert around?
21:17:47 <pgimeno> -lilo/Wallops- Hi all. Just a reminder. We're still looking for help with coding the next generation replacement for services. The project is at its very early stages; have spec, need coder help.
21:18:45 <pgimeno> http://dunnage.blogspot.com/2005/05/reprise-seeking-volunteer-coding-help.html
21:19:18 <lament> i'm sort of expert
21:19:32 <pgimeno> -lilo/Wallops- Right now, I think the python help would be the priority. If you're interested in talking about it, feel free to message me. Thanks.
21:19:43 <lament> oh, not that kind of expert :)
21:19:51 <pgimeno> oh
21:20:02 <pgimeno> I'm too new to Python
21:27:11 <kipple> Gregor: great news about the interpreter! can't wait :)
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23:14:18 <GregorR-L> OK, I have everything working except input, output, @ and the string preprocessor :-P
23:14:36 <kipple> the preprocessor is optional 
23:14:39 <pgimeno> good work!
23:14:42 <GregorR-L> w00t!
23:14:53 * GregorR-L tosses the preprocessor out the window
23:15:35 <GregorR-L> So, kipple, quick question, if the input was "Hello World!" the ! would pop first, right?
23:16:49 <GregorR-L> And if you produced output by pushing H-e-l-l-o, it would output "olleH", yes?
23:16:52 <kipple> yes
23:16:59 <kipple> and yes
23:17:04 <GregorR-L> Okiday.
23:20:59 <kipple> btw, the @ stack will probably be gone in the next version... :D
23:23:06 <GregorR-L> That'll help :-P
23:23:16 <GregorR-L> Making wussy users use atoi is infinitely better anyway.
23:23:25 <kipple> heh
23:24:06 <kipple> but I don't think you'll want to implement the next version in ORK ;)
23:24:31 <kipple> it has the ability to load code modules
23:25:05 <GregorR-L> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
23:25:11 <GregorR-L> IE from seperate files?
23:25:21 <kipple> yes. or inline
23:25:45 <kipple> or kipple files, java classes or C libraries
23:26:49 <GregorR-L> X-D
23:26:59 <GregorR-L> Both Java and C eh?
23:27:13 <kipple> or anything else that can produce a .so or .dll
23:27:28 <GregorR-L> So you'd need gcj?
23:27:35 <kipple> uh, no
23:27:38 <kipple> what do you mean?
23:27:44 <GregorR-L> To turn java into a .so
23:27:59 <GregorR-L> Or would it actually read .class files?
23:28:04 <kipple> yes
23:28:09 <GregorR-L> Ouch.
23:28:12 <GregorR-L> Good luck with that >_>
23:28:12 <kipple> it is written in java, so that is trivial
23:28:23 <GregorR-L> OOOOOOOOOOOOOH
23:28:25 <GregorR-L> *whew*
23:28:29 <GregorR-L> Line 1153 btw :-P
23:28:38 <kipple> ai
23:28:59 <kipple> did you have to add more features to ORK to make it?
23:29:05 <GregorR-L> Nope
23:29:13 <GregorR-L> No cheating for me ;)
23:29:20 <kipple> so it's pretty final now?
23:29:26 <GregorR-L> Very nearly.
23:29:30 <GregorR-L> Hopefully I just have to get o working.
23:31:09 <GregorR-L> 1161 lines, and maybe working now 8-D
23:33:20 <GregorR-L> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
23:33:22 <GregorR-L> IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
23:33:24 <GregorR-L> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
23:33:25 <kipple> yay!
23:33:29 <GregorR-L> *dies*
23:33:56 <pgimeno> whee
23:34:15 <pgimeno> ~praise GregorR-L
23:34:26 <kipple> R.I.P.
23:37:23 <GregorR-L> :-P
23:37:35 <GregorR-L> Apparently either i or o isn't quite working properly :'(
23:37:42 <GregorR-L> Actually, it must be i.
23:37:45 <GregorR-L> Since o works fine.
23:41:10 <GregorR-L> Nope, it's loops :-P
23:49:36 <GregorR-L> YESSSSSSSS!
23:49:39 <GregorR-L> AHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHA again
23:49:43 <GregorR-L> Now it really works ;)
23:50:08 <GregorR-L> No @ yet >_<
23:50:11 <GregorR-L> @ = annoying :-P
23:50:26 <kipple> hehe
23:51:10 <GregorR-L> If you push ASCII 113 onto @, does it pop 1-1-3 or 3-1-1?
23:51:19 <kipple> hmm
23:51:24 <GregorR-L> lol
23:51:26 <kipple> let me see
23:51:40 <GregorR-L> I think it pops 3-1-1
23:52:03 <kipple> it pushes 1-1-3, so yes, you're right
23:52:09 <GregorR-L> Okiday
23:52:16 <GregorR-L> *brain melts*
23:53:04 <kipple> that's the most practial way to pop. Otherwise you would have to reverse it before output
23:56:44 <GregorR-L> Right
23:57:52 <GregorR-L> Blah
23:58:08 <GregorR-L> The Fibonacci'r isn't working.
23:58:22 <GregorR-L> Or more correctly, my interpreter isn't working for the Fibonacci'r.
23:58:40 <kipple> is it the @?
23:59:14 <GregorR-L> I don't think so.
23:59:18 <GregorR-L> I got that working (sort of)
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23:59:37 <GregorR-L> Yeah, that works fine.