< 1116722329 0 :calamari_!~calamari@dialup-4.240.244.194.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1116722357 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1116723012 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: there is a problem with a site that is hosted by one person (like yourself) < 1116723037 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get run over by a bus, or stops updating for some reason, the site is lost < 1116723066 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where wikipedia and wikicities are (hopefully) more safe < 1116723116 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia is bad, because we're breaking the rules there (no original research) < 1116723130 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. hence wikicities may be a good alternative < 1116723221 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless advertising runs out, then *poof* it's gone :) < 1116723224 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1116723228 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing is 100% < 1116723249 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't look like those independent wiki's manage to get much content < 1116723314 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly offered because it seemed like there was a lot of talk but no actiob < 1116723327 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. and it is a good offer < 1116723386 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should go with what most people prefer (if we can get people to say that) < 1116723418 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about esoeric.sange.fi? That'd get my vote.. I wish I could remember the guys name < 1116723430 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's been running the bf archive for ages < 1116723455 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's his own machine.. so it's not likely to be taken down < 1116723477 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless Esoteric programming is deemed illegal and army troopers storm his home and destroy it. < 1116723483 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as with yours: dependent on one person < 1116723494 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd trust him over wikicities, to be honest < 1116723499 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1116723507 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never even heard of wikicities before < 1116723510 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even older than wikipedia, yes? < 1116723517 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we could come up with a mirroring system of our own wiki < 1116723549 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirroring sounds good.. there has to be a way,.. there are hundreds of wikipedia ripoff sites out there < 1116723589 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably some Java program that crawls the wiki and grabs the sources < 1116723600 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we could have two or three mirrors of the same wiki we should be safe < 1116723660 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally, they should be synchronized so that you could update in any one, at it would get propagated... not sure if such software exist < 1116723691 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the best we could hope for are daily or maybe hourly automated updates < 1116723700 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subversion + cron job < 1116723734 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the discussion earlier about the ø character, yes it is norwegian/danish. < 1116723735 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if everyone used the same software setup, it could be a fairly simple job of archiving a directory and sending it out < 1116723752 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a vowel pronounced as in duh or burn < 1116723753 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no Java crawling required :) < 1116723753 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1116723763 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers writing something.
< 1116723802 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: I think the mirroring idea is the best yet < 1116723803 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What wiki software is it based on? < 1116723819 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: MoinMoin seems like a winner, to me < 1116723821 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no reason who an edit couldn't prompt a cascade with the proper modifications. < 1116723822 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer the one wikipedia uses < 1116723838 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What formats to they store in? < 1116723843 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1116723853 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MoinMoin doesn't require a database.. which is nice < 1116723854 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flat file would be handy. < 1116723870 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION begins leaning toward MoinMoin ;)
< 1116723894 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there was just an ssh server on the required boxes, files could be scp'd in on edit. < 1116723903 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updates would cascade instantly. < 1116723907 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike the wikis that can't have spaces in the links. but maybe that's just me < 1116723938 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does MoinMoin allow HTML? < 1116724006 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to make some modifications to MoinMoin and see what I come up with. < 1116724074 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION balks.
< 1116724077 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MoinMoin is Python. < 1116724082 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor doesn't do Python. < 1116724122 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do Python < 1116724132 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use spaces, actually < 1116724144 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just use quotation marks < 1116724177 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. that's nice. < 1116724185 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you're right.. the link dont have spaces, but the user doesn't know < 1116724220 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally like "Wiki!" < 1116724225 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very simple. < 1116724252 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if MoinMoin is just flat files, it should be easy to sync, I think < 1116724261 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I tried one of those simple ones and it performed very badly.. php wiki or something.. remember that one? < 1116724280 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiki! is flat-file, simple, nice in my opinion. < 1116724284 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.sf.net/ < 1116724288 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a very good home page :P < 1116724297 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: link to a Wiki! wiki ? < 1116724305 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codu.org/odikeh/ < 1116724312 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very non-intrusive, there's a list of links at the bottom. < 1116724338 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one requires logins, actually. < 1116724343 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That example that is. < 1116724346 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeew! < 1116724348 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it can be set either way. < 1116724380 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not crazy about that look.. sorry < 1116724386 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1116724456 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could apply their own template. < 1116724476 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: just looked because I was curious about MoinMoin.. it stores the pages in a directory tree < 1116724477 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By modifying the code to their liking. < 1116724502 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd be a simple tar and send operation < 1116724557 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't thats what rsync is for? < 1116724563 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't be good to tar the enti---I was about to say that X-D < 1116724566 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple wins :P < 1116724596 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of it :) checks man rsync < 1116724699 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is if the two wikis are both updated differently. Then you would lose the changes in one when you sync. Is there an easy way to fix that? < 1116724732 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one solution is, of course to just have one that can be edited, and use the rest as pure backups < 1116724828 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid question time.. how does rysn connect without a password? < 1116724834 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rsync rather < 1116724888 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the "I'm-being-edited" cookie was stored in a file. < 1116724893 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: SSH keys < 1116724898 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: Rsync can go via SSH < 1116724927 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha.. (looking at man pages) < 1116724945 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "Wiki!" is even more templatable than I thought. < 1116724946 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is rsync -u .. update only.. do not overwirte newer files < 1116724961 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a template.html page that has $title, $node and $bar. Just put those in and it works with any template. < 1116724967 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would leave the two different < 1116724984 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: if it were one-way yes < 1116724997 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm actually, that'll never work.. clocks are always different < 1116725170 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: what if when on a mirror they click edit, it actually redirects to the "main" site and edits there instead? < 1116725182 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1116725196 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, why not redirect to the main site the moment you enter the mirror < 1116725208 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if the main site goes down you lose the content < 1116725224 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way, you'd just lose the ability to edit < 1116725225 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari_: I like your idea - edit redirecting that is. < 1116725229 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if it is mirrored every hours or so < 1116725237 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need to update instantly. < 1116725292 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about htis: if you edit a mirror, it is also submitted immediately to the main site < 1116725304 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Locking was the problem. < 1116725311 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't it? < 1116725317 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it? < 1116725323 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not X-D < 1116725351 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so, remote sites have cron jobs to download every hour, and when a page is edited it is always uploaded to the main site, yes? < 1116725367 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that could work < 1116725391 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are of course some locking issues < 1116725399 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most wikis don't lock anyway *shrugs* < 1116725423 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we saved a revision history, things could be restored. < 1116725427 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On request) < 1116725460 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta grab some food. brb < 1116725732 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, here's my thoughts ... < 1116725748 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main wiki has a list of subwikis, < 1116725754 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The subwikis know what the main wiki is... < 1116725759 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the subwikis all have a cron job, < 1116725780 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus a setuid-whoever program that sends a file UP to the main wiki. < 1116725790 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wiki software just acts like normal, < 1116725801 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But upon an edit, calls that setuid-whoever program. < 1116725828 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, everybody would have to know the main wiki's SSH public key < 1116725852 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vice-versa rather ... < 1116725859 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a problem.. we could have an information wiki page on how to add a new node to the wiki < 1116725859 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main wiki would have to know everybody's public keys. < 1116725865 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic < 1116725876 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even that could be automated, really. < 1116725886 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seems unsafe. < 1116725892 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess since it's a wiki, it's irrelevant. < 1116725897 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1116725928 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody mind giving me an account somewhere so I can set something up as a test? < 1116725952 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my web server is nor functional currently :( < 1116725969 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a problem? X-D < 1116725977 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'm using a shell provider.. sorry < 1116725985 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could set you up on my local box < 1116725985 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want an account it is.... < 1116725985 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, btw, I have another retort on Python: While most web servers support PHP, most do not support Python ;) < 1116726006 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need an ssh account somewhere. < 1116726006 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1116726016 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even really need web access. < 1116726024 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't have a spare box lying around. < 1116726057 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers his laptop.
< 1116726061 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, me-su stupid. < 1116726120 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: that's good, because my connection cuts out every 4 hours :) < 1116726291 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1116726302 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1116727075 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1116727095 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just read the backlog < 1116727162 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what's your take on this wiki business? < 1116727168 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally like the MoinMoin idea < 1116727192 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sits in his corner, alone as the only supporter of "Wiki!"
< 1116727209 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1116727355 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the idea of sending an edit to another server < 1116727373 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer a main server and non-editable mirrors < 1116727386 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I think I do as well < 1116727395 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's agreed, then I'm done X-D < 1116727403 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An rsync every hour and that's it. < 1116727410 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1116727414 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps not that often < 1116727417 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes perfect sense < 1116727424 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I've got to go eat home-made chicken soup. It's a terrible life. Bye 8-D < 1116727431 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once or twice a day would be enough < 1116727438 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later, GregorR < 1116727448 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be left to each mirrorer to decide < 1116727454 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bon apetit, greg < 1116727477 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say once a day is more than enough < 1116727503 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mirror should be able to be switched to a main server, just for the case the main one fails < 1116727611 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a notification in the ML may be enough for the mirrors to start mirroring another server < 1116727634 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be done manually. it's not something that should happen often < 1116727651 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ML = mailing list < 1116727657 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. manually :) < 1116727658 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1116727869 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the list has been pretty dead recently though < 1116727889 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lack of traffic does not imply lack of people (I hope) < 1116727914 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IRC was apparently also quite dead until GregorR and I joined < 1116727938 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly. I pretty new here myself < 1116727994 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the impression I got from Keymaker's words < 1116728038 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it does look like the four of us do most of the talking here nowadays... < 1116728086 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think that just because i don't talk much, that i'm not actively lurking :) < 1116728102 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe. good to know < 1116728106 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi cpressey < 1116728110 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1116728119 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to ask you about two things < 1116728127 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1116728142 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is OOPS, any reference apart from the mention in your old page? Google didn't help < 1116728191 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? ... hmm. no. i think it was briefly sketched in a message to the (old) mailing list. but iirc it was not a fully formed idea < 1116728202 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember whose idea it was, either < 1116728208 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok, thanks < 1116728224 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc the objective was an object-oriented tarpit... < 1116728231 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other is rube2; the wayback machine doesn't hold the archive and all I was able to get was a version for Atari ST < 1116728238 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1116728259 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rube is an idea of yours, right? < 1116728264 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting... i still have it somewhere, i guess i didn't put it back on my site after i recovered it from that disk crash < 1116728286 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original RUBE was mine, yes.... RUBE II was john c's slight change + implementation < 1116728300 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my impression, thanks < 1116728311 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are you going to put it back online? < 1116728311 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the original had a really _awful_ implementation... rube ii's code is much better) < 1116728320 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see if i can dig it out, but it might take a while < 1116728329 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you so much < 1116728333 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np < 1116728339 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should also maybe put illgol back up :) < 1116728351 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thank you for initiating me in this esoteric world! :) < 1116728374 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! < 1116728398 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, to reach the next level, you must stay locked in a mailbox overnight while we all sing sea shanties at you. < 1116728427 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1116728431 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you get a nifty apron and... oh, no! i've already said too much! < 1116728434 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1116728462 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the subject of wikis... < 1116728489 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1116728503 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pretty much agree that wikipedia shouldn't be playing host to each and every esolang. < 1116728513 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know where to draw the line either. < 1116728530 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for having a "satellite"... i'm not convinced that a wiki is the best tool for the job... < 1116728539 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there used to be something called the Esoteric Language Database < 1116728550 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was renamed to the Stupid Languages Database < 1116728558 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is (afaik) now gone < 1116728560 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but why not use a wiki for it? < 1116728564 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encyclopedia of stipid languages? yes it's gone < 1116728570 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stipid -> stupid < 1116728580 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is important that it is easy for several people to edit < 1116728581 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, why not use a "forge" for it, like luaforge or rubyforge? < 1116728593 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki aspect is useful, yes < 1116728595 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know about that < 1116728601 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but these are also (generally speaking) projects < 1116728613 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code/document development < 1116728621 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be sweet if there was a tool that combined both < 1116728629 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i think there is, but i forget what it's called < 1116728654 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i don't really know < 1116728657 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also considering Subversion; the problem is that the editor has to modify the HTML code directly, no quick-and-easy markup < 1116728667 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if i'd use it, but i thought i'd toss the idea out there < 1116728679 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1116728693 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if that "forge" thing is similar to a version control system < 1116728722 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, the problem (i guess) if you have publically changeable code, is that it's very easy to slip in exploits unnoticed < 1116728746 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the "forge" software, whatever it is, is like sourceforge's site. i think it can use cvs or svn for version control < 1116728768 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is more project-oriented than reference-oriented. < 1116728771 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I understand < 1116728785 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, it is the reference part I'm most interested in < 1116728923 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get what you mean by reference here < 1116728951 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "looking things up" is what i meant by it :) < 1116728964 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh k < 1116729039 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is not like cooperative project development; it's more like hosting each personal project's description and files, pretty much like what cat's eye is currently hosting < 1116729117 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as a wiki is able to host files, I think it's good enough < 1116729154 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1116729196 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, apparently this is what i was thinking of --> http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/ < 1116729344 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at any rate, i'm not pushing the idea. any sort of resource would be great, obviously. < 1116729364 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem is long-term reliability :) < 1116729372 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty interesting for community development, indeed < 1116729416 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, so maybe the mirroring is an important feature... < 1116729446 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's the whole point of mirroring < 1116729855 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: is rune.krokodille.com yours? < 1116729860 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1116729876 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's down < 1116729901 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, thanks < 1116730071 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your welcome. Why, btw? < 1116730146 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I followed the link from the wikipedia and it failed, I just wanted to be sure it was your site to get an idea on how it would work again (about a week, you said a few days ago) < 1116730162 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how -> when < 1116730164 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well. not so sure now. < 1116730181 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1116730193 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the root partition seems to have lost some files. can't boot. < 1116730204 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know how much else is lost < 1116730215 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll have time to look into it next week < 1116730235 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a linux expert, so it may take some time < 1116730312 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a brief googling, it doesn't look like there is any ready-made solution for a synchronized multi-host wiki. there's some discussion of mirroring wiki content (one-way), but that's not nearly as useful... < 1116730388 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sorry kipple < 1116730426 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: regular non-editable mirrors sound OK to me < 1116730446 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. the mirrors doesn't have to be editable < 1116730472 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's 4am here. Good night :) < 1116730481 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite kipple < 1116730614 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnight kipple < 1116730643 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"See you later" < 1116730681 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, if the person running the editable wiki decides to stop (for whatever reason)... well, as long as there's a way to choose which of the mirrors gets to be the "next" editable one, i suppose that works < 1116730700 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the other mirrors update to mirror from it < 1116730712 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the idea < 1116730718 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool. < 1116730785 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i have to eat now :) ttyl (and i'll try to get rube ii up this evening) < 1116730836 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bon appetit and thank you very much < 1116730863 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to sleep as well (I'm on the same time zone as kipple) < 1116731492 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LADEEDADA 8-D < 1116733718 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i put both rube & rube ii back online --> http://catseye.webhop.net/projects/rube/ < 1116734202 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, Rube = awesome < 1116734310 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to play "The Incredible Machine" :P
< 1116734317 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx :) < 1116734330 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should probably work in curses support.... someday......
< 1116736436 0 :comet_11!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CXI < 1116736750 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1116736791 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin moin's a bit icky to work with - one of my uni courses uses it for notes < 1116737317 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, see http://www.wikicities.com/wiki/Database_download for info about backups (it'd be about as complicated as wget and a cron job) < 1116739585 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using wget would cause a massive redownload every backup, no? < 1116739866 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not terribly massive - just the curr table < 1116739876 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, current versions of every page, not the whole history) < 1116739892 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not incremental, if that's what you mean < 1116739976 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though a diff-based update would be kinda nice < 1116740004 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence rsync < 1116740035 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But lemme take a look at that page. < 1116740088 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got it all set up for "Wiki!" < 1116740092 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, nobody likes "Wiki!" so :P < 1116747813 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we go :) < 1116747835 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor's customized version of "Wiki!" supports guest posting and file uploads, and titles with spaces in them (which was supported anyway) < 1116748799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1116748800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1116749022 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1116749033 0 :lindi-!~lindi@kulho150.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1116749198 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1116749202 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's the big explosion? < 1116749335 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1116749442 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1116749442 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1116749474 0 :lament!~lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1116749489 0 :mickoko!~mickoko@203-173-34-63.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1116749497 0 :GregorR!~GregorR@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1116749515 0 :mickoko!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1116757317 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1116757317 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1116757451 0 :mtve!mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1116761561 0 :KnX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1116763161 0 :stefan60!~opera@p549998E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1116763254 0 :stefan60!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1116766646 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1116766675 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But, nobody likes "Wiki!" so :P < 1116766846 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: from my point of view, the question is not to like or not to like; just MoinMoin is already set up and running in calamari's server, and if there's a compelling reason to make the effort of changing I'm for it < 1116766882 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ok, i put both rube & rube ii back online --> http://catseye.webhop.net/projects/rube/ < 1116766912 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you very much, cpressey! < 1116766936 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rube is sooooo coooool :) < 1116767381 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I thought that the name came instead from Sierra's Space Quest II adventure where there's a toy called Cubix Rube < 1116769352 0 :kipple!~kipple@163.80-202-100.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1116770515 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, this rube2 thing is much harder to get working than rube < 1116775147 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does MoinMoin only save the last two revisions? When I click show changes in the EsoWiki, only the last two are available... < 1116776606 0 :comet_11!Sanity@dialup-108.88.221.203.acc50-kent-syd.comindico.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1116776877 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1116776921 0 :comet_11!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CXI < 1116778673 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Pope_CXI < 1116778795 0 :Pope_CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CXI < 1116779708 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: click on "Get Info" < 1116779754 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. thanks < 1116788081 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how much information are we supposed to put on the Wiki? I suppose the full spec and everything, so that if eso.codu.org (as an example) fell out of existance, it would be there? < 1116788951 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm ... how do you make MoinMoin show 2L code without trying to be all wiki-i with it... < 1116789208 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know. I assume it has some tags for such things < 1116789349 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried {{{ }}} ? < 1116789387 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured that out after a bit. < 1116789389 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That worked. < 1116796743 0 :andreou!~peace@195.130.98.225 JOIN :#esoteric < 1116796791 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Another brainfuck site (http://www.bf-hacks.org/) is open! ~ http://chriscoyne.com/cfdg/ < 1116797894 0 :GregorR-L!~GregorR-L@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1116797925 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION eats babies.
< 1116797941 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. < 1116798094 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1116798803 0 :ngtr!~peace@athe530-e150.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1116799031 0 :GregorR!~GregorR@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1116799046 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is my alter ego joining magically? :P < 1116800295 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1116800421 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1116800447 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creepy... :) < 1116800448 0 :GregorR!~GregorR@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1116800513 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty strange. < 1116800542 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have another machine that's logged in? < 1116800564 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1116800568 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And off ... and in ... < 1116803030 0 :ngtr!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :andreou < 1116804544 0 :kipple_!~kipple@163.80-202-100.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1116804544 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1116805326 0 :andreou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"~"