< 1116979207 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mediawiki seems like a heavyweight wiki < 1116979238 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1116979247 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(again) < 1116979282 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavyweight in what way? system requirements, features, lines of code... ? < 1116979300 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system requirements (ram), and database < 1116979358 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: what hardware are you running on? < 1116979410 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wikicities is out? < 1116979411 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not going to have lots of traffic, so I don't think it will be a problem... < 1116979428 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple_: it might < 1116979458 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I think it's scary, because we ultimately lose control and if wikicities goes down, all is lost < 1116979473 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if graue is using BT to download and upload lots of porn, the site will be slow no matter how little traffic it has < 1116979480 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirrors are a way of dealing with network traffic < 1116979506 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get (daily I think) db-dumps from wikicities too < 1116979506 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: you can get the DB dump on wikicities, no? < 1116979516 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't own the server, it's shared, specs are here: http://textdrive.com/specs/ < 1116979533 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: and i trust wikimedia more than any individual with a server < 1116979538 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to keep the thing up < 1116979549 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too. that's why we mirror it < 1116979585 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: who is going to store them? Unless people are actively involved, I foresee the db dumps eventually going to a dead server, then wikicities goes offline, the dumps are attempted to be retrieved , and only then it is discovered that the erson keeping dumps was gone long ago < 1116979598 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I trust 3 mirrors more than wikicities (which is NOT part of wikimedia) < 1116979635 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: anybody involved in anything esoteric is likely to very suddenly stop being involved < 1116979663 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: btw, wikicities is not a wikimedia project < 1116979674 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1116979705 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With full-on mirrors rather than just backups, if the main goes down, you don't have to go begging after somebody for content, it's still there. < 1116979708 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear what will happen if the ads on wikicities isn't enough to pay the hosting expences < 1116979798 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody know if there is a read-only setting in MediaWiki? < 1116979889 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks #mediawiki
< 1116979932 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i have this usermode linux box running and i'm willing to devote it to the site < 1116979943 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just might need help administering it from time to time as i'm about to travel < 1116980110 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple_: yes there is a read only setting < 1116980117 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1116980129 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then read-only mirrors should be easy < 1116980141 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: has edut redirecting been abandoned? < 1116980146 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err edit < 1116980166 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to do it? < 1116980195 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: not without modifying the source code < 1116980207 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should try to avoid that IMHO < 1116980209 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's not an option < 1116980225 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of problems involved < 1116980273 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should at least be an edit way for people on the mirrors to edit, or they will never be used for anything < 1116980280 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err easy < 1116980305 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then nobody will know when the mirrors go down, because they are unused :) < 1116980306 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't have to be used. only be there in case the main goes down < 1116980314 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1116980396 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with calamari - there should at least be a simple header("Location: /edit.php"); < 1116980443 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guest users can't edit anyway < 1116980465 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that's my opinio < 1116980467 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+n < 1116980467 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has an idea
< 1116980529 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each mirror can redirect to the main site, unless the main site is down (pretty sure there's a way to test for that), in which case the read only local copy is shown. The main site would only allow connections that were from the mirrors < 1116980566 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it called, the referrer? < 1116980619 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way people are forced to use the mirrors, rather than accessing the main site directly < 1116980632 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. Would make it more complicated to set up. KISS? < 1116980646 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it really that complicated? < 1116980657 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know < 1116980666 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything involving touching that code is risky < 1116980673 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we wouldn't be < 1116980697 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you prevent connections from non-mirrors? < 1116980706 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the server needs a list of mirrors < 1116980709 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: you'd only prevent them from the main page < 1116980718 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an idea < 1116980724 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make an Esolang:Mirrors page on the wiki < 1116980729 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: yeah it would.. but it'll need that anyways to send out dumps < 1116980729 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listing the URL of the original, and the URLs of the mirrors < 1116980748 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that page will be mirrored along with everything else, any copy can be found from anywhere < 1116980769 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, the main shouldn't send out dumps. Only provide them for download < 1116980777 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: oic < 1116980787 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic?? what's that? < 1116980799 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh, I see" < 1116980812 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. anyway, that's at least my opinion < 1116980848 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes it easier to set up a mirror (i.e. no configuration is needed on the main site) < 1116980910 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see little reason to set up a mirror if nobody is going to use it, though :) < 1116980922 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just for backup. < 1116980934 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what I meant.. but ok < 1116980953 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I more or less agree with calamari, but I don't see why people are not going to use mirrors < 1116980967 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see a reason to use a mirror? < 1116980974 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: because you can't edit < 1116980990 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why use a mirror if you can use the main? < 1116980993 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only editors can edit, that's not a problem < 1116981008 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple_: "Please use a server near to you" < 1116981065 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to what one gets when downloading a file from sourceforge < 1116981091 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think traffic will reach the point were that is necessary < 1116981126 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't either.. it's not really a traffic problem.. I'm just concerned that the mirrors will evaporate without anyone knowing it < 1116981154 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a rotating DNS could perhaps also help < 1116981160 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's harder to set up < 1116981171 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(similar to irc.freenode.net) < 1116981188 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's too much trouble I think < 1116981209 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's how I see it: if you are afraid of something disappearing, take a backup yourself. All we should do is make sure the main site facilitates that < 1116981216 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people aren't going to want to change their config, well unless it can be automated < 1116981232 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: that' < 1116981247 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s the whole point tho.. otherwise, what's wrong with graue's site? < 1116981290 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't follow you. Have I said there's something wrong with graue's site? < 1116981308 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as there are enough alternative modes of communication (DirectNet and IRC and DirectNet and email and ... DirectNet :P )and enough auto-downloaders, I think just having one active main isn't a problem. < 1116981345 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing they taught us in first aid training is never to say "someone call for help", because then no one does (someone else must already have done it) the better alternative is to pick someone (or in our case multiple people) to do it < 1116981387 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence auto-downloaders rather than humans. < 1116981390 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Damn humans) < 1116981397 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: ?? not trying to imply anything wrong with his site < 1116981407 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying "someone call for help". I'm saying "YOU call for help" ;) < 1116981437 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, of course, you have a point.... < 1116981452 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can we be 100% sure a backup is taken..... < 1116981453 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: I didn't realize you were speaking directly to me individually < 1116981478 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't really < 1116981491 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then my point is valid < 1116981502 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dang, it's hard sometimes to communicate by IRC :) < 1116981506 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1116981536 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad graue has his site up.. it looks really nice < 1116981547 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple_: by checking the mirror site ;P < 1116981552 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best way to guarantee it would be to upload from the main rather than trusting the mirrors to download. < 1116981578 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1116981592 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the mirrors go down, upload fails as much as download < 1116981611 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the main would know it, and could put a big red banner on the page saying "THIS MIRROR IS DOWN!!!!!!!!" < 1116981632 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could still do that, without uploading < 1116981648 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I suppose you could check whether a mirror has downloaded... < 1116981666 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to be able to take a backup of the site WITHOUT being dependent on the current admin to give it to you < 1116981706 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with the download model is that you can't trust people to download - if the main goes down, it's possible that nobody would have backed it up. (cont. next line) < 1116981732 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with the upload model is that the (possibly non-existant) administrator of the main site needs to make changes for a new mirror to spring up. < 1116981751 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it can be automated < 1116981756 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So make the process of adding oneself to the upload list automated. < 1116981758 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn. < 1116981761 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You win the typing contest. < 1116981761 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloads can be motnitored < 1116981774 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monitored < 1116981776 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: That would be significantly more difficult I think ... < 1116981793 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if it's via HTTP or whatnot... < 1116981836 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? "Last downloads: 80.35.19.122 2005-05-25 17:20" < 1116981849 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :php can monitor that < 1116981899 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so the download would be through a PHP script? < 1116981909 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1116981911 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there would just be a file floating on a server somewhere that got updated now and then X-D < 1116981946 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so, that file could be gotten through a PHP script < 1116981952 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm php in a nutshell, to be published July 2005.. I'll have to ask for that one for Christmas :) < 1116981982 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gotten"? is that correct? < 1116981982 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, then there's another problem. 1) You'd need a daemon to actually do anything with that info, 2) there would still need to be a main-site mirror list for that to be useful. < 1116982005 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, "gotten" ... I think so? Me not talk English. < 1116982019 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retrieved? < 1116982030 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHH! LONG WORDS HURT GREGOR! < 1116982036 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1116982050 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d/led? ;) < 1116982063 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grabbed < 1116982070 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leeched < 1116982075 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :purloined < 1116982087 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloaderized < 1116982092 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, just a special page with the last downloads seems sensible < 1116982139 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it falls back to trusting humans - who's going to check that page to make sure everything is in order? < 1116982157 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be in the same page as mirrors < 1116982203 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Last update: <,blah>" < 1116982219 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last backup < 1116982230 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether people would react when they saw "Last update/backup: <2002>" < 1116982231 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then have a link on how to because a mirror site < 1116982239 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :become rather < 1116982254 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, didn't we decide that they wouldn't be mirrors proper, just backup sites? < 1116982273 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize that was decided < 1116982282 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okidoke 8-D < 1116982286 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rewinds.
< 1116982304 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, you can do whatever you want with your own backup/mirror < 1116982321 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me a backup is sufficient < 1116982350 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to download sithout downloading the entire database each time? < 1116982372 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with rsync it seems so < 1116982388 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1116982393 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? cool.. didn't realize rsync could work with databases < 1116982400 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dump is a plain text file < 1116982405 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it works on MySQL dumps as well :) (unless they are zipped) < 1116982412 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1116982435 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it might get big if not zipped < 1116982442 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not a problem for us < 1116982477 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hopefully not, since rsync only sends the files that changed, right? or does it even do better than that and send a patch? < 1116982489 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sends a patch. < 1116982495 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dump is a single file < 1116982515 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a forum with lots of daily traffic has a 50 Mb database < 1116982537 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I don't think we'll get close to that < 1116982554 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :database dump, that is < 1116982576 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're in the ballpark of some weekly traffic < 1116982579 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a 50 Mb dump is reasonable < 1116982603 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that before or after zipping it? (the forum example) < 1116982614 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before < 1116982618 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 6 megs zipped < 1116982717 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the "Last backup" idea, but put it on the main page where everyone sees it < 1116982877 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it'd be possible to determine the last time anything was edited on the wiki.. then after a week it could say "Backup out of date, please help to preserve this wiki" or something like that :) < 1116982923 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There could be a list of backups last week. then people could be encouraged to take weekly backups, and picking days when few others do < 1116982945 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably possible < 1116982984 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too sleepy to go on discussing < 1116982987 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "recent changes" page shows the last time something was edited < 1116982995 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so good night all < 1116982998 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd also be good to require some kind of contact information, like an e-mail address < 1116983004 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: night < 1116983056 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, that might raise privacy concerns < 1116983072 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the only way it would be useful is if it was also in the dump :) < 1116983087 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the dump contains every user's email address < 1116983118 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see that as a problem. WikiPedia does the same. if < 1116983119 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1116983143 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, then < 1116983209 0 :GregorR!~GregorR@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1116983225 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was a pointless quit :P < 1116983227 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the email should be optional anyway < 1116983315 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, if the database was sent compressed, rsync would be pointless, since the diffs would be irrelevent. < 1116983339 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. that's why it shouldn't be compressed < 1116983357 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, rsync's traffic can be compressed, rather than the DB itself. < 1116983359 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is how much bandwidth would it take to prepare the patch vs just sending the zipped file? < 1116983409 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the whole point of rsync seems to be to conserve bandwith, so I think it is worth it < 1116983416 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1116983454 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The very first download would be significantly higher-bandwidth. < 1116983459 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After that it would be far far less. < 1116983466 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think a couple megabytes a week matters to anyone in the first place < 1116983514 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1116983515 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in the happy world where the esowiki is about 1.6GB and there's more data there than anybody could swim through in a lifetime :P < 1116983532 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't count on it :) < 1116983552 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that post pgimeno made is the first in how many months? :) < 1116983605 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FYI, the zipped dump for current pages of the english wikipedia is 900MB, so 1.6GB is perhaps a bit optimistic... < 1116983628 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: too many < 1116983821 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! GIKI PROJECT APPROVED!!! :) < 1116983865 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dances.
< 1116983900 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. you used that name :D < 1116983915 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google says: Ghulam Ishaq Khan Institute of Engineering Sciences and Technology.. GIKI is a center of excellence in Pakistan for the natural sciences and Computing. < 1116983934 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds geeky...... < 1116984358 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple_: It was you who suggested the name, right? < 1116984372 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1116984381 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is a rawx0r name :) < 1116984390 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor's Wiki = Giki = Geeky = yeeeeh haw :P < 1116984488 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had experience with bad project names, and this isn't one < 1116984504 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just made a user on graue's wiki and got user ID 2 :) I take it not many has registered.... < 1116984505 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OBLISK's original name was SupaRun ... it's embarassing just to say that ... what a stupid name. < 1116984624 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, I'm now ID 3 <=K < 1116984680 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a couple of years, maybe I can sell that user on ebay for lots of $$$$$ ;) < 1116984718 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard people have actually sold slashdot users with low IDs on ebay < 1116985491 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I despise anybody stupid enough to actually buy those, and idolize anybody with the marketing genius to be able to sell them :P < 1116985695 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! I've finished zeroing the harddrive on my web server. and it only took 13 hours.... :D < 1116985727 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There may be people who would suggest that that's a bit extreme ;) < 1116985748 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was suggested as a way to get rid of the bad sectors < 1116985797 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I didn't get any r/w errors, like I got with various HD utilities < 1116985859 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bit extreme" it is though! more than a trillion bits is definately extremely many :) < 1116985872 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION digs up the debian CD
< 1116988809 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1116989462 0 :pgimeno!pgimeno@124.Red-80-59-211.pooles.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1116989477 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1116990246 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: up already? :) < 1116990410 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1116990411 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1116990605 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1116993433 0 :wooby!~wooby@66.57.219.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1116993550 0 :GregorR-L!~GregorR-L@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1116993564 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hio < 1116993572 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hullo < 1116993578 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is just getting the Giki page up :)
< 1116993599 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1116994281 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Are you a Schweinpenis? If so, type "I am not a Schweinpenis."" < 1116994300 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://giki.sf.net/ < 1116994674 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1116994686 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been tinkering with moinmoin myself < 1116994692 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikis are so awesome :) < 1116994862 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1116999549 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what semi-common Wiki features should I adapt as Giki plugins next :P < 1117003416 0 :puzzlet!~puzzlet@61.247.148.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1117003605 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoi < 1117003609 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1117003617 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How goes? < 1117003653 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm making a new esolang < 1117003659 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first ever written in Hangul < 1117003681 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://puzzlet.org/puzzlet/%EC%95%84%ED%9D%AC~Ahui < 1117003710 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1117003839 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will probably fail to write anything in this language :P < 1117003846 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing as that I don't even have the keyboard :P < 1117003894 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the "Hello World" program print "Hello World," or "Hello World" in Korean? < 1117003937 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello, world!\n" < 1117003981 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that it can produce Hangul output? < 1117003990 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1117004014 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it receives Unicode code point and prints < 1117004061 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So where's the "??, ???!"program? (If Babelfish is smart ;) ) < 1117004125 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://puzzlet.org/puzzlet/%EC%95%84%ED%9D%AC~%EC%95%88%EB%85%95%ED%95%98%EC%84%B8%EC%9A%94 < 1117004132 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is the similar one. < 1117004146 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only assume "w00t" :) < 1117004147 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since "Hello, world!" literally is an ackward expression. < 1117004159 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awkward* < 1117004165 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1117004529 0 :tokigun!tokigun@sparcs.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1117004606 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hullo < 1117004680 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello :) < 1117004689 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How goes? < 1117004700 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1117004711 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wrote Ahui interpreter in Python < 1117004733 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh < 1117004798 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzlet: i have to update interpreter for new spec < 1117004819 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me either < 1117005105 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: hmm. i'm still holding the opinion that "provide wiki for esolangs" and "preserve esolangs" are two different tasks, and it just feels like this problem is being shoehorned into a solution that doesn't fit it. < 1117005136 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp sites preserve content just fine. < 1117005170 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what could be more KISS than that? < 1117005177 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, just my two cents. < 1117005179 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION out
< 1117005196 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does MediaWiki allow HTML? < 1117005270 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partially, afaik < 1117005301 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have seen
, , so far < 1117005301 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does MoinMoin support plugins? < 1117005397 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/CategoryMarket?action=fullsearch&value=linkto%3A%22CategoryMarket%22&context=180 < 1117006434 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1117006437 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was cpressey < 1117006442 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the deity talked < 1117006456 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzlet: ahui sounds incredibly dirty in russian < 1117006493 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incredibly? < 1117006520 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like? < 1117006621 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1117006631 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL HAIL CPRESSEY!!!!!!!!!!! < 1117006633 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bows down.
< 1117006640 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bows down.
< 1117006826 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody want to add any more wikis to Giki's "other wiki software" list? < 1117006832 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://giki.sourceforge.net/index.php?title=other%20wiki%20software < 1117006860 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MoniWiki! < 1117006868 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, add it :P < 1117006873 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://moniwiki.sourceforge.net/wiki.php < 1117006954 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does enabling html codes with like [[HTML()]] count? < 1117006973 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any means of injecting HTML into the wiki *shrugs* < 1117006996 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes, long story short. < 1117007040 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cikiwiki, tokigun's ioccc entry - http://page.tokigun.net/obfuscation/cikiwiki.php < 1117007072 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1117007076 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's awesome XD < 1117007080 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in judgement < 1117007097 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :judgement in progress < 1117007555 0 :puzlet!~puzzlet@61.247.148.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1117007607 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello puzzlet - z :P < 1117007622 0 :puzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1117007625 0 :puzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzlet must die < 1117007629 0 :puzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1117007631 0 :puzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1117007651 0 :puzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wondering why i have been disconnected < 1117007999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1117008000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1117008011 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1117008149 0 :puzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :puzzlet < 1117008407 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1117008434 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :La-Ti-Do < 1117008436 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1117008555 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boredom 8-D < 1117008599 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :musician's extinction, maybe < 1117009019 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1117009019 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1117009020 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1117009020 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1117009020 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1117009020 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1117009021 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1117009021 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1117009035 0 :puzzlet!~puzzlet@61.247.148.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1117009035 0 :tokigun!tokigun@sparcs.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1117009035 0 :GregorR-L!~GregorR-L@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117009035 0 :wooby!~wooby@66.57.219.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1117009035 0 :lindi-!~lindi@81.17.193.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1117009035 0 :cpressey!nobody@d154-20-76-195.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117009035 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1117009035 0 :lament!~lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117009156 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY! < 1117009156 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netsplit! < 1117009564 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1117016159 0 :comet_11!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1117016934 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot" < 1117022016 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1117022602 0 :puzzlet!~puzzlet@61.247.148.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1117024210 0 :kipple!~kipple@163.80-202-100.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1117025966 0 :CXI!~Sanity@dialup-136.89.221.203.acc50-kent-syd.comindico.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1117026146 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I agree that ftp hosting can perfectly cope with mere preservation; however the wiki is also a means to publish additional information about the language(s) which would otherwise require downloading files. In that sense, graue's idea about separating the wiki and the files deals with both preservation and additional information (in a too disconnected way for my taste, but it does) < 1117028020 0 :kipple_!~kipple@163.80-202-100.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1117028959 0 :malaprop!~ph@adsl-68-73-230-100.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117029131 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1117031634 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay. my website is finally up again! :D < 1117031640 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://rune.krokodille.com/lang/) < 1117032191 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheers, kipple_! < 1117032453 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems you finally managed to teach the HD which sectors to skip < 1117032467 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1117032474 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could crash again < 1117032501 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, if some rebel sectors appear < 1117032504 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left the last 30 gigs of the drive unpartitioned this time (that is where the problems were) < 1117032563 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, it might be a problem of underventilation < 1117032587 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be. < 1117032607 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've changed the IDE cable, which was suggested on seagates web site < 1117032622 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was an old one < 1117032672 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had temperature problems with disks < 1117032702 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should put a thermometer inside the box to check < 1117032768 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and with cpu's; check http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/dsc02325.jpg ) < 1117032797 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1117032831 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cpu is not the problem. It has never crashed that way (even though it doesn't have a CPU-fan) < 1117033071 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you noticed the placement of the disk in the shot? there were two disks together before, but it seems that the lack of ventilation caused the temperature to raise to a point where touching the disk was even prone to causing injury < 1117033092 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(plus the fact that each disk raised the other's temperature) < 1117033114 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have only one disk < 1117033128 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the others made too much noise, so I removed them) < 1117033145 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum, my theory is not very acceptable for your case then < 1117033186 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could still be too warm in the cabinet. the lack of a cpu fan could be a problem < 1117033274 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of doubt it but of course if you check it you'll be more confident < 1117033343 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. the disk is mounted in a bracket in a 5.25" bay, so it has room on all sides as well. < 1117035186 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1117037603 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday (more than 12 hours ago anyway) someone said that Martijn van der Heide's work grabbing permissions from authors for distribution on WoS was hardly a huge work... that hit my sensible fiber < 1117037628 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.worldofspectrum.org/permits/publishers.html < 1117037696 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a huge work < 1117040934 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i was tinkering yesterday with moin moin, and got it working if anyone wants to check it out < 1117040982 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.esolangs.org/ < 1117041273 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1117041721 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice wooby < 1117041768 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1117041785 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know there are other ones, and i don't want to further divide effort... so i may or may not keep it up < 1117041794 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case moinmoin is nice < 1117041808 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait until the final decision is taken < 1117041850 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1117041850 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1117041858 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that about the GFDL being restrictive? < 1117041919 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CXI: GFDL can have the 'invariant sections' < 1117041922 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CXI: it has hassles about immutable portions. < 1117041957 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sure, but the GFDL as used by wikipedia specifies no invariant sections < 1117042017 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has anti-DRM requirements. < 1117042066 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.html < 1117042095 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, I remember that article < 1117042136 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason I mention it is that wikipedia compatibility would be nice < 1117042143 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dual-license, maybe? < 1117042172 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, hmm, that would only work in one direction < 1117042209 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gragh, licensing is a pain :( < 1117042376 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pity Wikipedia has such a bad license, ya. < 1117042391 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*goes to bed instead* < 1117042599 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malaprop: they have "or later" clause there < 1117043704 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooby: are you around? < 1117045095 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION drives home
< 1117046990 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey. has anybody seen the BF mandelbrot program by Eric Bosman? It's really cool! < 1117047023 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.microlyrix.com/software/bfdev/output.jpg < 1117047345 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1117047370 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs awfully slow in my java interpreter though... should have compiled it.... < 1117047689 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1117047699 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice :) < 1117047722 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple_: could you try if my optimizing interpreter makes it run faster? < 1117047826 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could it not.... my interpreter doesn't optimize < 1117047883 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have GCC on my win box. Will it comile with Visual Studio? < 1117047902 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know, maybe it does with a bit of makefile tweaking < 1117047940 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just curious anyway < 1117047976 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malaprop: I've just seen your message in lang < 1117047999 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. I can run it on my linux box. pedro's optimizing compiler on a 187 MHz box vs. kipple's lousy java interpreter on a 1.4GHz box < 1117048049 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1117048060 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it just tokenizes (no compiling) < 1117048083 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1117048085 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad < 1117048136 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway... I'm also curious about the BF compiler written in BF :) < 1117048150 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the BF code doing the output? < 1117048165 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Mandelbrot output I mean < 1117048202 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find a dot < 1117048213 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1117048248 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the java interpreter runs it about 3 times faster than brfd < 1117048265 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering the difference in hardware that's quite good for brfd < 1117048338 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, not bad but not as good as I expected < 1117048362 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like a 3X speedup < 1117048371 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to say < 1117048383 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's more than MHz that counts < 1117048389 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I didn't explain myself, sorry < 1117048405 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean where to find the program < 1117048411 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1117048413 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a sec < 1117048472 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: did you write Smallfuck? < 1117048472 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://brainfuck.kicks-ass.net/files/mandelbrot.bf < 1117048483 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1117048488 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: yes < 1117048506 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an awesome idea :) < 1117048532 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interested in whether Smetana can be done Turing-complete < 1117048538 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1117048543 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's exactly what i made smallfuck for < 1117048546 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to show that < 1117048551 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1117048576 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read about that and apparently the conclusion was that it wasn't < 1117048582 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1117048593 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1117048599 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smetana programs can only have limited "memory" since the size of memory is limited by the size of the code < 1117048615 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1117048619 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but within that constraint a smetana program can emulate a BF machine of arbitrary size < 1117048622 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I showed < 1117048653 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it's as "turing-complete" as any physical computer :) < 1117048674 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I read the whole story somewhere? what I read in the voxelperfect wiki is not accurate it seems < 1117048692 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it say there? < 1117048713 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, want to check yourself? < 1117048718 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1117048720 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1117048723 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically that some programs don't stop or something < 1117048732 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that it's shown to not be Turing-complete < 1117048776 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Smallfuck < 1117048842 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1117048868 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries that
< 1117048879 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just looks like an error in my compiler :) < 1117048939 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1117048973 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: I've started a test running both interpreters on the same machine :) < 1117048986 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, cool < 1117049011 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to figure out how to operate the smallfuck compiler
< 1117049015 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking in the backlog for that link with an optimizing compiler for Linux < 1117049020 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, when i wrote this i was still in high school :) < 1117049029 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hehe < 1117049047 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean this one: http://www.nada.kth.se/~matslina/awib/ < 1117049070 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah! thanks < 1117049080 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bookmarks the link this time
< 1117049249 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1117049252 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that program < 1117049253 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nice aspect of that compiler is its ability to compile self < 1117049257 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*[>*] < 1117049266 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works perfectly in my compiler < 1117049273 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminates once it reaches the end of memory < 1117049283 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the info on wiki is simply wrong < 1117049300 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, do you mean an smetana version? < 1117049306 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1117049327 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers taking out smetana from the non-Turing-complete category
< 1117049331 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sets all elements of memory to * and terminates < 1117049353 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's still not turing-complete :) < 1117049362 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a word for this particular type of ability < 1117049370 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing-complete with a memory constraint < 1117049374 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there even is a word < 1117049380 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing-bounded? < 1117049383 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a very common situation < 1117049389 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.241.122.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1117049390 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1117049392 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi calamari < 1117049395 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1117049413 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-infinite turing-complete < 1117049418 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finitely turing-complete < 1117049475 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1117049477 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1117049486 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll edit the wiki < 1117049493 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, actually bound is not a proper term < 1117049546 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And binding already has a definition in languages, so... potential confusion. < 1117049579 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, wrong choice on my side < 1117049630 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want i can give you the smetana/smallfuck files < 1117049662 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Which of the wikis are you editing? < 1117049698 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, that requires immediate attention < 1117049748 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was writing another message to the list on the evolution of the proposals but was having a break < 1117049771 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malaprop: voxelperfect < 1117049876 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may I paste some timings? < 1117049929 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's 4 lines total, I don't think it will be annoying < 1117049933 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time ../brfd-1.0/brfd awib-1.0rc4.b < awib-1.0rc4.b > awib1 < 1117049933 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m27.503s < 1117049940 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time ./awib < awib-1.0rc4.b > awib2 < 1117049940 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m2.001s < 1117049968 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1117050029 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's computing the mandelbrot now < 1117050069 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here too... < 1117050152 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.77 secs... but it seems it doesn't like my terminal < 1117050165 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language is that ".b"? befunge? < 1117050165 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need about 130 cols < 1117050172 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck < 1117050175 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1117050181 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually < 1117050194 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should write fast brainfuck interpreter then < 1117050223 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, I'm really dumb... the output was the compiled code rather than the executed one < 1117050235 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: mandelbrot in 6.77 secs?? impressive < 1117050248 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was compiling time O:) < 1117050254 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1117050289 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 secs will surely make more sense :) < 1117050335 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the output is a beautiful Mandelbrot set < 1117050337 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1117050346 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mandelbrot or something else? < 1117050363 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mandelbrot < 1117050370 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m10.381s < 1117050370 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 0m9.557s < 1117050370 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m0.028s < 1117050378 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive < 1117050397 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't htink brfd will do i in 11 minutes here :) < 1117050419 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelling schmelling < 1117050420 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying it right now < 1117050449 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it < 1117050467 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s obvoius that it isn't cheating, at least :) < 1117050484 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, that's crystal clear < 1117050494 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can see it noticably slowing down when it gets to the edges < 1117050529 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edges? < 1117050530 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the set itself is the slowest < 1117050538 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edges of the set < 1117050540 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1117050551 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the code is not exactly readable, it could have been nothing more than an advanced Hello WOrld < 1117050553 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the set itself has to be the slowest < 1117050590 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually such thing as a bf compiler in bf is dangerous < 1117050610 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out to be honest but it could have generated a virus < 1117050612 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if it compiles to bf :) < 1117050621 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a trojan, rather < 1117050670 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 4m16.412s < 1117050670 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 4m8.624s < 1117050698 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the comiled was 11 secs? wow < 1117050710 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup :) < 1117050738 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brfd is still running here. I estimate it will take about 25 mins... < 1117050763 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch :) < 1117050785 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how long the unoptimizing java interpreter will take.... < 1117050835 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well er... longer < 1117050845 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think? < 1117050860 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should compile it to binary to get a more fair comparison < 1117050863 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm wondering is how long would it take for a non-optimizing compiler < 1117051053 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: have you tried how hard is a MediaWiki to set up? < 1117051078 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MediaWiki is not hard to set up. < 1117051585 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, phone < 1117051604 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried it, malaprop < 1117051606 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1117051996 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MediaWiki? Yes, I run a couple. None public ATM, tho. < 1117052015 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1117052189 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: nope.. no time. We will just be taking dumps, anyways, though.. right? :) < 1117052206 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems so < 1117052219 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how easy is to rebuild the database? < 1117052225 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1117052233 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that question is for you, malaprop < 1117052235 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql -u user -p -h host db_name < dump.sql < 1117052258 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like MoinMoin better, so I'll be sticking with it (won't be using it for esowiki though) < 1117052286 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy to download the mediawiki dumps tho < 1117052288 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given an empty database that's ok, but what if all you want is to update the database with the last changes? < 1117052307 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to get going.. cya all < 1117052310 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later < 1117052312 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1117052416 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A partial update is probably possible, but a drop & reload would be simpler and saner. W'ere unlikely to ever have a db that is so large it takes more than a few minutes to do this. < 1117052433 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1117052536 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For an extreme example, the English Wikipedia (http://download.wikimedia.org/) is currently ~36G and can usually run in under 12h. So it's really really unlikely we'll have any kind of painful downtime. < 1117052562 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do you think that this scheme is feasible? < 1117052608 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Entirely, yes. One of the advantages of MediaWiki is that it's immensly popular and featureful -- so we'll get nearly any feature we want without having to do it ourselves, and there's no worries that the maintiners will disappear. < 1117052645 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that graue cares a bit about the look tho < 1117052675 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I want a feature to include java applets in the wiki. I think we might have to do that one ourselves... < 1117052686 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I the only one who sees the left bar disturbing? < 1117052768 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple_: I don't think that the wiki is the best place to host java apps; a regular server seems to make more sense < 1117052789 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's probably already done < 1117052806 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left bar disturbing? < 1117052827 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari's moinmoin server does not have it and I find it cleaner < 1117052835 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it could do with some chaning of it's elements, but otherwise it's nice < 1117052849 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language List should be in it for instance < 1117052869 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1117052870 0 :GregorR-L!~GregorR-L@host-203-248.pubnet.pdx.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1117052879 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi GregorR-L < 1117053032 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: brfd is done: < 1117053033 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 48m20.233s < 1117053034 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 48m9.140s < 1117053034 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m1.210s < 1117053038 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1117053085 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1117053114 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. does that mean that my unoptimizing interpreter will take hours? < 1117053140 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can try to make an estimation < 1117053163 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah. I'll just run it. < 1117053173 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably yes < 1117053248 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think that most votes here favor MediaWiki, right? < 1117053260 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sigh) < 1117053269 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks that way < 1117053276 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still a bit unsure < 1117053303 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooby went the moinmoin way also with success < 1117053346 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, most people agree on mediawiki < 1117053358 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I'll follow the trend in the message < 1117053405 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whew* < 1117053448 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were you reading the log or something, Gregor? < 1117053458 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1117053461 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain melted. < 1117053463 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1117053875 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malaprop: so are you offering to make backups? < 1117054083 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, you offered that in the list; do you want to set up a mirror? < 1117055219 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the status of file uploading? < 1117055233 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in voxelperfect, I mean < 1117055256 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know? < 1117056345 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue < 1117056414 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: I'm happy to do hosting, mirror, or backup as needed. So if we have a host and want mirrors, I'll be a mirror. < 1117056449 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1117056467 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also have this domain, esolangs.org... which i'd point at where we eventually decide the main site should go < 1117056511 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dern, this fopen-ing of a web site in PHP is not working right for me >_< < 1117056535 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Does the local install permit fopen_wrapper? < 1117056558 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep fopen /path/to/php.ini < 1117056579 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malaprop: the problem is that so far there's no mirror < 1117056579 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, is allow_url_fopen, not fopen_wrapper, pardon < 1117056602 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooby: would you try MediaWiki? < 1117056618 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: sure i'll have some time to set it up later tonight < 1117056627 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: Of voxelperfect? Shall I contact graue and work it out with him? < 1117056673 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malaprop: Yeah, I use it elsewhere, I just don't know what's causing it to fail in this one situation. < 1117056704 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Were you venting or looking for help? :) < 1117056706 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malaprop: I guess so < 1117056715 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: ok < 1117056722 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1117056727 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a bit confused
< 1117056754 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment I need to complete the message reporting the current status < 1117056837 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just to complain 8-D < 1117056858 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't still need to do that < 1117057076 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: about the left menu in MediaWiki. You can disable it if you're logged in < 1117057196 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1117057222 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would also suggest changing the default skin. < 1117057225 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also possible to add skins with very different appearances. < 1117057242 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 5 so far < 1117057253 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the one WikiPedia uses looks best of the 5 < 1117057260 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monobook or something < 1117057268 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple_: Yes, that's Monobook. < 1117057324 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks very much like WikiPedia then, but at least then it's very familiar to most < 1117057380 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This [Quickbar settings] preference only works in the 'Standard' and the 'CologneBlue' skin." < 1117057386 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1117057393 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I like CologneBlue < 1117057410 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then what's the rpoblem? < 1117057427 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem really < 1117057701 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it only had a bit of a margin... :) < 1117057717 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: Yeesh, install GreaseMonkey already. :P < 1117058128 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nostalgia seems to be Good enough(tm) < 1117058470 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr. I'm trying to make an InterWiki Content system, but I can't seem to fopen URLs, even though I know SF lets you >_< < 1117058508 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC that's a php setting < 1117058522 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repeat: "even though I know SF lets you" < 1117058531 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, ok < 1117058534 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1117060275 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone aware of a language based on the idea of data redirection, like piping? < 1117060289 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall seeing a BF derivative that did something similar < 1117062425 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1117062897 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1117064205 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: I finished running mandelbrot.b in the java interpreter: < 1117064205 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 179m45.762s < 1117064205 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 179m31.570s < 1117064205 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m1.880s < 1117064227 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means your interpreter is about 3.7 times faster < 1117064850 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1117064895 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried my interpreter with the -s option and the speed difference is not significant < 1117064911 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the -s option do? < 1117064923 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disable optimization (the s stands for slow) < 1117064948 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of optimization do you do? < 1117064971 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember that very well :) < 1117064999 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that it optimizes copy operations and things like that < 1117065024 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addition to multiple cells, zero out cells... < 1117065088 0 :GregorR-L!~GregorR-L@host-225-125.dhcp.pdx.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1117065097 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1117065106 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any uber-javascript-hax0rs here? < 1117065127 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple_: it's embarrasing not being able to answer your question :) < 1117065138 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slash anybody else who knows if it's possible to open a web page to get its content in Javascript? < 1117065201 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: what do you mean by "get its content in JavaScript"? do you mean get the JS code which it has embedded? < 1117065237 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean something like read the HTML from http://www.google.com/ < 1117065264 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, wget http://www.google.com/ ; less index.html < 1117065278 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In JavaScript ... < 1117065289 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean from another web page? < 1117065292 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1117065298 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1117065298 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not good at explaining this obviously :P < 1117065318 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, do you mean the JS code to *connect* to another page to grab the text? < 1117065325 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically. < 1117065342 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than, say, opening it up in an iframe and loading that (which may or may not work) < 1117065404 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me it sounds like it would be a security risk, say the page is in file://... < 1117065422 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, 'tis a good point.