00:08:40 YES! I win! I can't directly access the source, but I can access the DOM, which is good enough for what I need :) 00:20:43 http://www.rgagnon.com/jsdetails/js-0034.html 00:21:43 by the way 00:22:09 my "brfd" debugger does not optimize at all :( 00:22:21 I don't know what happened 00:22:47 well it beats the crap out of mine anyway :) 00:23:31 just because of having no java, I suppose 00:23:38 I don't think so 00:23:48 I compiled it to binary with gcj 00:24:05 I'm sure I wrote an optimizer, and spent some time debugging it 00:24:57 well, probably because Java programs are intrinsicly slower 00:25:11 I don't think that is true 00:25:23 at least not for a factor of nearly 4! 00:26:25 it's probably superior coding :) 00:26:26 my interpreter deals with chars, but Java AFAIK does not have a char type, everything is strings, right? 00:26:28 YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 00:26:37 INTERWIKI CONTENT! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOH! 00:26:47 no, Java has char 00:29:12 congrats GregorR-L 00:29:28 oh it does? hm... I have confused it with JS then 00:29:35 I don't know Java, sorry 00:30:54 OTOH I've found the optimizing RUN module; I'm starting to remember that I decided to change it to avoid confusing people 00:32:25 it's frustrating and embarrassing to find out that you've been unconsciously lying to people 00:34:18 * pgimeno tries replacing run.c 00:38:01 (confusing people because it was supposed to show how the interpreter algorithm described in my article worked) 00:40:37 hmm. your code looks pretty close to mine. maybe gcj is not as good at optimizing as the C compiler 00:41:38 might be 00:42:37 I'm putting brfd under svn control before making any further changes 00:46:42 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 00:48:56 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 00:54:41 hmm. Sun's java seems to be about twice as fast as compiled gcj.... 01:28:41 -!- calamari has joined. 01:29:13 hi 01:29:54 hi 01:34:13 -!- That_Guy has joined. 01:36:14 Hello ? 01:36:39 hi there 01:37:12 oh good, a real person 01:38:02 why thank you ;) 01:39:37 Furthermore, two real people. 01:39:44 hi 01:39:48 Four! 01:39:59 2 + 1 = 4 01:40:05 did my message get trhough to the list? I got a bounce and I'm not sure it's OK 01:40:14 I'm looking for any sites for the beatnik language other than the authors site. 01:40:17 which message is that 01:40:37 that_guy: don't know any 01:40:37 "Evolution of the proposal" 01:40:49 That_Guy: Sorry, haven't heard of any. 01:40:51 ah. that list. sorry, I'm a bit slow 01:40:57 Test1::Test2::Test1::Test2::Index 01:40:57 This is test wiki 2. 01:40:57 Test1::Index 01:41:03 8-D 01:41:07 yes, I got it 01:41:25 oh, okay, thanks kipple_ 01:41:52 I'm off to sleep, bye 01:42:11 Bummer but thanks anyway. 01:42:36 If you make one, feel free to tell us :) 01:43:39 I just might... if i can find some time 01:44:29 * GregorR-L gives That_Guy a bucket of time :P 01:45:31 thanks i'll need it, i'm moving soon. I never thought I had this much stuff. 01:49:47 -!- That_Guy has quit. 01:59:18 kipple_: before I leave... try this run.c: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/run.c 01:59:47 it made a difference for me at least 02:01:35 I'll test it later. can't right now 02:01:41 real 1m14.653s 02:01:41 user 1m12.166s 02:01:41 sys 0m0.054s 02:01:48 later meaning tomorrow.... 02:02:12 k 02:02:18 g'nite all 02:02:24 nite 02:14:18 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 02:25:19 -!- comet_11 has joined. 02:48:55 -!- CXI has quit (Connection timed out). 03:11:28 -!- pgimeno has quit (Connection reset by peer). 03:12:01 -!- pgimeno has joined. 04:23:23 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 04:25:37 -!- graue has joined. 04:25:49 yello 04:27:42 Hullo graue 04:27:50 Which wiki software is on your page? 04:28:46 MediaWiki 04:29:06 What I'd like to know is why there's a separate files dir instead of sticking it all in the wiki. :) 04:30:54 flat files are easier to browse and back up, and everything in the wiki is public domain, while stuff in the files directory may have other or ambiguous copyright 04:32:01 ok 04:37:57 PHPWiki doesn't seem to support plugins >_> 04:39:02 -!- malaprop has quit ("sleep"). 04:39:51 I am deeply saddened by PHPWiki's lack of plugins. 04:41:49 -!- kipple_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:02:05 phpwiki isn't the greatest ;) 05:02:49 Any MoinMoin experts want to implement IWC (InterWiki Content) in it? 05:03:12 huh? 05:03:32 I thought we were going with MediaWiki.. it makes sense I think 05:03:44 This is totally unrelated to esowiki ;) 05:03:49 oh, okay :) 05:03:51 Plus, I'm writing the plugin for MediaWiki (I speak PHP) 05:04:04 I'm writing plugins for PHP wikis to support a simple InterWiki Content "standard", but I don't speak Python. 05:04:08 I've been playing around a bit with Java applets.. having fun with that 05:05:00 making a simple shell wannabe thing, with fake filesystem and editor 05:05:06 Heheh, nice. 05:10:12 hmm.. how do I make a blinking cursor.. hadn't considered that :) 05:26:07 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 05:32:00 Woooh ^_^ 05:32:05 Got IWC working with PHPWiki :) 05:36:09 you will become very famous if your standard catches on 05:36:47 maybe you can even charge people $33 to download a copy 05:39:54 -!- calamari has joined. 05:48:16 I wouldn't do that. 05:48:20 I'm a FOSS nut. 06:25:20 i think all software should be under this license: 06:25:21 Use of the works is permitted provided that 06:25:21 this instrument is retained with the works. 06:25:21 DISCLAIMER: THE WORKS ARE WITHOUT WARRANTY. 06:29:46 That's the shortest version of the MIT/X Consortium license I've ever seen ;) 06:31:22 it comes from http://svn.jwp.name/law/license/experimental/ideal 07:29:33 Is it just me, or has SourceForge been slow today? 07:37:51 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:38:51 Hullo 07:42:17 Hello 07:49:04 I'm making an InterWiki Content "standard" 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:18 GregorR-L: I forgot to ask what you meant by that 08:09:22 You can link to a page on another wiki, and it will display in your wiki, so the contents can be merged seamlessly. There's no obvious seam of templates. 08:13:53 For an example, compare http://giki.sourceforge.net and http://giki.sourceforge.net/iwclist/index.php?title=TheGikiWiki::Index 08:56:51 back later 08:56:51 -!- graue has quit ("Are you a Schweinpenis? If so, type "I am not a Schweinpenis.""). 09:02:08 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 09:17:13 test 09:21:07 quiz 09:21:28 exam 09:21:35 assessment 09:23:08 evaluation 09:31:20 -!- calamari_ has joined. 09:31:50 -!- graue has joined. 09:32:07 hey GregorR, you should add the article about your 2L language to the esolang wiki 09:32:23 it is obviously original research, you know 09:46:32 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:54:09 -!- comet_11 has changed nick to CXI. 10:40:46 hi 10:42:46 * CXI waves 10:45:17 graue: there? 11:18:36 work in progress: http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/EsoShell/ 11:21:19 so far it has extremely primitive command line parsing (spaces only, no quotes or escapes).. but it does load and run each program.. they have their own main method 11:25:36 nice, calamari_ 11:26:20 what's the objective? 11:26:54 pgimeno: thanks.. I'd like to contribute to the wiki demo effort :) 11:28:23 this should make it easier, since it presents a comfortable interface (stdin/stdout .. you can use println), single directory filesystem.. not implemented yet, but will allow basic file operations) 11:29:10 I'd like to automate the help command.. but haven't found a way to do so yet (Java gets uptight about security violations when I try to get a list of the class files) 11:29:43 of course the file operations will be memory only.. once you leave the page, it's all gone 11:32:01 sorry for my dumbness but what does the "wiki demo effort" mean? 11:32:33 and, is there something that one can try apart from "help" and "ls"? 11:33:00 I'm implementing "echo" right now.. one min and I'll upload it :) 11:33:08 k 11:33:25 there was interest expressed in being able to try out esoteric languages right from the wiki 11:33:39 oh got it 11:34:09 this seems less cumbersome than the usual input/output boxes and run button :) 11:36:00 hehe, indeed 11:36:11 okay echo should be up.. haven't tested iut yet :) 11:37:31 yay it works :) .. don't even need to reload the applet! 11:37:56 heh, I did (I didn't know it wasn't needed) 13:14:51 -!- kipple has joined. 13:24:45 -!- malaprop has joined. 13:47:52 pgimeno: results with the optimizing run.c: 13:47:52 real 9m2.971s 13:47:52 user 8m55.830s 13:47:52 sys 0m0.770s 13:51:17 that is about 5 times faster than without optimization 13:54:23 calamari: there are ways to get around the security limitations regarding file listings from Java applets. 14:06:02 -!- calamari_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:33:06 kipple: that's better huh? :) 14:36:50 yes 14:37:32 and Sun's java runtime was twice as fast as gcj on my java interpreter 14:39:31 yeah, I read that... it seems that gcj is still too preliminary as to compete with Sun's java 14:39:41 btw, I also got a Mail delivery failure when posting to lang 14:39:51 but I think it went through 14:39:56 yes, I got it 14:39:59 I've just seen your message in there, btw 14:40:36 Subversion copes with the issues you state 14:40:45 great 14:40:48 have you ever used cvs? 14:40:53 barely 14:41:42 you may at least know that when the repository is updated, the local copies synchronize by receiving only the changes 14:42:49 are the files stored in a manner that lets them be accessed independently via HTTP? 14:42:56 yes, absolutely 14:43:47 well, then it sounds like we're set :) 14:43:56 see e.g. http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/ 14:44:37 that's the svn Apache module in action, that seems to be what graue has in the server 14:45:18 svn is strict wrt users; I think the maintainance is done by hand 14:46:58 that's a potential problem: if graue and most or all of the initial editors lose interest, how are users going to be added? 14:47:12 that's a very pessimistic point of view though 14:47:20 brb. phone 14:47:45 k 14:49:03 I suppose that even if that happens there's always the option of switching to a different host 14:54:58 hmm. yes. that's kind of the whole point of this project... :) 14:59:34 yup 15:06:07 BTW, an svn repository can't be mirrored directly by clients; you need the svn admin to dump the repos. 15:12:28 -!- bajbak has joined. 15:16:45 malaprop: yeah, but keeping the whole history is not the goal, just the files. A working copy is good enough. 15:17:18 Then under the 'fewer moving parts' ideal, files in the wiki would be better. 15:18:00 a dump similar to the mysql one could also be done anyway 15:18:12 keeping the whole history would be nice though 15:18:12 Ya, is just added hassle. 15:18:14 that's just two files to transfer 15:18:25 instead of one plus a tree 15:18:38 but a dump of the files could potentially be quite big 15:19:11 and you could put the db-dumps in the file tree, and do it in one op 15:22:07 not if it is svn 15:22:22 well, actually yes, but I doubt it makes sense 15:23:10 that would mean committing the dump into the repository each week 15:23:32 pgimeno: I think he was saying the svn dump should be copied into the wiki tree. 15:23:51 hmm. not sure how to do it best 15:24:56 wont the wiki have to have a files section anyway? At least to store images 15:25:08 kipple: Yes. 15:25:29 then that has to be backed up as well! 15:25:41 -!- bajbak has left (?). 15:25:47 That will be in the wiki tree, we've already planned for it. 15:27:35 how about having a folder which contains the following: the current files from the svn, the files section of the wiki, and the current db-dump 15:27:54 then you just sync that one folder, and get everything 15:28:28 I think that a "svn up" is a very easy way to be in sync with the files section 15:28:40 no need to download individual files et al 15:29:19 but would require the user to have svn, right? 15:29:37 only the people who are making backups 15:29:45 yes, that is what I meant 15:30:09 one more software requirement... 15:30:57 I'm using svn regularly, it's pretty easy to use 15:31:05 anyway you have a point 15:31:11 PS: I don't mean to sound overly negative here. I'm just thinking aloud... 15:31:38 is rsync two-way? 15:32:03 what do you mean? 15:32:24 I mean, could it be used to upload files as well as to downoad them? 15:32:24 * kipple has never actually _used_ rsync.... 15:32:40 me neither... well, I've used rsync-backup but that's not the same 15:32:47 rsync command means 'make my local dir like that remote one'. Is one-way. 15:33:11 hm, ok 15:33:53 ftp + rsync is the only simple alternative to svn I can figure out 15:34:57 well, to me it seems obvious that either you want incremental updates, in which case you need other software, or you use full updates, in which case it can work with just about anything 15:35:10 I don't mean to be rude, but I think you guys are way overthinking the setup. 15:36:40 you're probably right, malaprop... what do you suggest? 15:38:02 A MediaWiki installed somewhere doing daily SQL/image dumps. Let everyone who wants to grab the dumps for mirror/backup/making of birdcage liner. Done. 15:39:26 I must be missing something... what about the files dir? 15:39:31 -!- CXI has changed nick to CXI-Fu. 15:39:51 I think the files in MediaWiki goes the same place as the images 15:39:53 MediaWiki internally treats all files as images. Is a legacy of how it developed, but they're all in one place. 15:40:26 but it has restrictions on what file type can be uploaded, right? 15:41:00 Yes, and trivial to modify or remove. 15:41:24 ok. do you have to allow each type, or can you just allow everything? 15:41:31 are the files in the database too? 15:41:34 You can use either strategy. 15:41:35 no 15:41:38 ok 15:41:49 No, keeping large binary blobs in dbs is generally a bad idea. 15:42:20 so that's anyway a separate download 15:43:00 wget example.com/sqldump.today.sql example.com/filedump.today.tar.bz2 15:43:51 that is indeed a simple solution 15:43:56 how is that different to holding the files separately? 15:44:04 there are the license issues 15:44:16 You automatically get all the MediaWiki interface niceties for dealing with files. 15:45:00 And the license issues are solved entirely by putting "This file is copyright by so-and-so" in the image/file caption. WikiPedia does this to pull in images under CreativeCommons licenses. 15:45:05 wikipedia has files with different licences, so I don't think it is a problem, 15:45:37 let's see if graue comments on this 15:46:46 I'm not opposed to keeping the files in the wiki 15:46:55 me neither 15:47:28 I'm just concerned about potential issues that may arise in future 15:47:50 changing later is usually far more work than planning before 15:59:17 that is true. But this approach doesn't require ANY particular software for taking a backup. Which I think is very nice 16:09:13 that depends on the point of view actually 16:09:28 you can download the subversion tree with wget via web, for example 16:10:50 what makes it different is the upload interface 16:11:57 in the case of ftp, everybody is already used to it, I think 16:15:21 graue: I added 2L to calamari's esowiki, so I guess now I add it to yet another :P 16:17:18 -!- CXI-Fu has changed nick to CXI. 16:18:15 bbl 16:59:55 back 17:06:27 on file uploads: what's nice with the mediawiki approach, is that there is only one set of user accounts to administer. And they are part of the mysql-dump too 17:51:05 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 18:22:28 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:16:43 Time now for review. 19:16:47 And by that I mean sleep. 19:16:51 *zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* 19:36:55 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 20:31:12 -!- cpressey has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:31:13 -!- cmeme has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:31:28 -!- cpressey has joined. 20:31:28 -!- cmeme has joined. 21:22:53 -!- calamari has joined. 21:23:57 hi 21:25:20 'lo 21:25:34 file system is ready.. can create file, but can't edit them yet (next step) http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/EsoShell/ 21:25:38 hi pgimeno 21:26:47 hm, my mozilla crashes 21:27:05 fortunately I opened it under a different profile 21:27:15 :( 21:27:35 at work (windows + mozilla) it worked 21:27:39 wonder why it's not crashing here 21:28:10 I have Java 1.5, but I'm pretty sure the latest I'm using is 1.4 21:28:20 there can be many reasons... jre version... mozilla version... 21:29:41 does this page crash? http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/components/applet.html 21:30:11 yes 21:30:21 hmm, okay I feel better then :) 21:30:35 :) 21:30:50 maybe it's because we're using Swing 21:31:24 what jre and mozilla are you running? 21:32:11 mozilla 1.7.7-2; I don't remember where to look to see the java version 21:32:39 windows? 21:32:47 nope, debian 21:32:47 calamari: nice shell :) 21:32:55 kipple: thanks :) 21:32:57 1.4.2 it seems 21:33:29 so, what do you have planned for it? 21:34:33 kipple: still need to implement file i/o. I'd like better parsing (escape sequences, quoted strings), simple i/o redirection with files, an editor 21:35:08 the editor I'm wondering about. right now I jave a line editor planned, but maybe a full screen editor is better? 21:36:10 one problem with applets is that there is no copy/paste because of the security system.. unless you run linux, middle mouse button ;) 21:37:05 hmm, never mind.. paste seems to work. Maybe it's just copy that is disallowed 21:37:10 didn't know that. how is that a security issue? 21:37:31 kipple: no clue 21:37:45 umm. I am able to copy 21:37:52 well, cool then 21:37:58 but only from the prompt 21:38:06 calamari: hmm, i don't seem to be able to type anything to that textarea with gcjappletviewer 21:39:11 calamari: I think the problem is that you can't select properly because you move the cursor as soon you click any where else than the prompt 21:39:20 lindi-: I'm overriding some of the methods, maybe it doesn't understand DocumentHandler's yet 21:39:56 calamari: can you put the source somewhere so i can report bugs to gnu classpath? 21:40:03 needed to prevent free scrolling, otherwise the terminal effect is lost 21:40:26 lindi-: sure, but there are 0 comments, so it's somewhat ugly atm 21:40:39 no problem at all 21:40:58 calamari: i'll just strip it and try to create reduced testcases for individual bugs 21:42:19 lindi-: http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/EsoShell/EsoShell.tar.gz 21:43:12 calamari: 404 21:43:31 aha.. it didn't go where I thought it did 21:43:39 http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/EsoShell.tar.gz 21:45:24 hmm, doesn't work in IE either.. need to work out these bugs :) 21:47:37 what doesn't work in IE? here it works in IE, Mozilla and Opera 21:48:36 hmm, cool. It tells me, Main.EsoShell class not found... running it under QEmu, but that shouldn't matter 21:50:39 maybe you should make the textarea read only, and then use key-events for input. That way you could let the user select anything regardless of the cursor 21:50:46 calamari: keyTyped does not seem to be called at all.. 21:51:18 kipple: will I still have a blinking cursor that way? 21:51:46 No. but I think you could make your own... 21:53:21 either painting it directly, or inserting/removing a rectangular character every half a sec or something 21:54:16 seems slow 21:54:25 how so? 21:54:53 and also I don't know how to do that stuff 21:55:19 hmm. 21:55:24 I've painted images to make a screen.. but that'd require a lot of downloading 21:55:44 (of the charset) 21:56:07 since they are individual PNGs 21:58:44 how about this: textarea.setText(textarea.getText(0, textarea.getText().length()-1) + "_"); 21:59:03 alternate with: textarea.setText(textarea.getText(0, textarea.getText().length()-1) + " "); 21:59:19 why, though? is there something wrong with the way I have it? :) 22:00:09 only that you can't select properly. and it was you who brought it up :) 22:00:32 oh, that 22:02:07 not a big deal, but nice if you're going to have an editor 22:02:41 the editor itself will be okay, because it'll be past the prompt 22:02:50 ah. okay 22:03:20 I think I have to go with a full screen editor.. it's what people are used to 22:05:37 the problem is, you're not going to be able to save anything... 22:05:46 why not? 22:05:58 security restrictions in applets 22:06:10 I'm not using real files 22:06:17 meaning? 22:06:26 it's a fake filesystem I'm writing for the applet 22:06:43 the files are saved in memory 22:06:44 in other words: you're not going to be able to save anything ;) 22:07:02 I mean for the next time you load the console 22:07:05 that's unavoidable, really 22:07:26 can applets create cookies? 22:07:33 well, not totally, actually 22:07:37 hmm., don't know 22:08:14 you *could* have some CGI store the files.... 22:08:28 now we're getting complicated :) 22:09:03 yes 22:10:37 or pass them to a file upload form through HTTP.... 22:11:28 remember that the files are on the local machine already 22:11:33 anyway. not sure if it is important. depends on what it's going to be used for... 22:12:01 yes, but the applet will never be allowed to store them there 22:16:02 I think that applets can communicate with javascript somehow and javascript can store cookies 22:16:15 not sure though 22:16:28 seems likely 22:16:52 I think applets can communicate with a browser directly to some extent as well 22:16:57 pgimeno: yes, that's what I'm seeing too :) 22:17:13 for example: https://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/lists/advanced-java/2000-August/012042.html 22:18:09 hm, yeah 22:18:23 I've never written an applet though, I can't be of much help here 22:19:12 I think cookies have size limit restrictions 22:19:27 very likely 22:23:52 std. max size for cookies is 4k 22:24:05 about that example: where does this JSObject class come from? can't find it in the API 22:26:01 dunno, I saw this page, though: http://java.sun.com/products/plugin/1.3/docs/jsobject.html 22:26:53 ah. it's a third party package 22:30:01 cookies can be 4k, including the site name storage :) 22:30:10 up to 20 cookies per site 22:30:36 well, then you have 80k storage :D 22:31:11 hehe 22:31:30 I think I'm going to push the priority on this down a little 22:31:35 yeah 23:13:54 graue: around? 23:14:20 yes 23:15:19 we've discussed previously about why not allowing uploading the files via MediaWiki 23:16:30 the main objection is that svn is just another piece of software to have to make the mirroring 23:17:26 so there will be no files? 23:17:31 it's a good way to allow multiple editors to add/update files 23:17:35 what am I writing this applet for, then? :) 23:23:47 calamari: no files? 23:23:47 I personally think not allowing files is a terrible decision 23:23:47 either i, or anyone else who wants to bother using subversion, can always make a .tar.bz2 for others to use for backups 23:23:47 calamari, the files directory will be separate from the wiki, but it will exist 23:23:47 in fact it already does :) 23:23:47 I remember one of the reasons we chose MediaWiki was that it allowed file uploading 23:23:47 graue: I actually expected that there would be more files in zip/tarball form than in text form 23:23:47 why not use it? 23:23:47 I don't expect the files in there to change at all 23:23:47 calamari, wiki is not good for organizing files into hierarchies 23:23:47 the file repository is like /language, /language/impl, /language/doc, /language/src, etc 23:23:47 if anything needs to be visually illustrated on the wiki, images can be uploaded 23:23:47 also, everything in the wiki should be PD just to avoid confusion, even files 23:23:47 yeah 23:24:01 graue: I don't see the problem 23:24:34 just allow ppl to upload files where they think it's appropriate.. if they upload in the bf page, it's probably going to be a bf related file 23:25:26 uploads are not in a page; they just wind up in a global namespace 23:25:29 uploads can be restricted to certain users, right? 23:26:35 graue: that sounds like a limitatiuon of MediaWiki then.. MoinMoin allowed attachments on any page 23:26:41 graue: that's not bad for tarball distributions; it's bad for tree structures à la Cat's Eye 23:27:05 calamari: I think he means that there's one single files dir, no subdirs 23:27:25 why would we have tarball distributions? most programs in brainfuck, intercal, wierd, snusp, etc are single files 23:27:55 pgimeno: okay.. but I don't see why that causes a problem either, really 23:27:59 maybe for certain more sophisticated implementations, but not for programs written in most esoteric languages 23:28:20 hum, I was thinking more about the languages themselves than about the programs written with them 23:28:28 graue: oh yeah.. don't forget to turn on Java, unless it's already on :) 23:28:53 hm, turn on java? 23:29:00 java support I mean 23:29:20 in what, my browser? 23:29:21 so that I can embed my applet 23:29:29 in the wiki page 23:30:03 don't embed it, you'll freeze everyone's computer for 10 seconds loading it even if they aren't interested 23:30:10 link to an external page that has it embedded 23:30:13 graue: no 23:30:18 that's not acceptable 23:30:33 it can be on a separate wiki page 23:30:36 that's fine.. 23:30:50 calamari: about namespace collision: say, hello.bf - is it a befunge program or a brainfuck program? 23:31:13 pgimeno: I wonder if it'll tell you when you upload that the file already exists? 23:31:30 I suppose it will 23:31:43 .b is brainfuck, .bf is befunge 23:31:52 but that's a problem of lack of a directory hierarchy 23:32:22 graue: it was just an example of namespace collision :) 23:32:24 graue: so, how about having the applet on it's own wiki page.. that way it's not loaded unless the person wants it.. is that cool? 23:32:57 it's fine, but why does it need to be on a wiki page? 23:33:17 the point is to be able to have enerything in one place... 23:33:38 why not have it on a wiki page? 23:35:06 I don't know how are special pages handled... if they can be special in that they support any html, a special page can probably do it 23:35:10 i'm thinking wiki = information, files = code 23:36:48 as long as where the files are kept can be easily linked to from the wiki, and easily uploaded to I'm happy 23:37:00 and easily backed up, of course 23:37:12 I still don't see why the normal user can't upload files 23:38:03 there are potential security risks: what if someone uploads a php file.... 23:39:05 how would it become executable? 23:39:21 it'd just be an attachment 23:39:26 would it? 23:39:38 the way it's usually set up files with a php extension are automatically executed 23:39:42 if it's on the web server, wouldn't it be executed? 23:39:47 yeah.. the only exception that I know of at the moment would be for the java applets 23:40:24 exception to what? I'm not sure what you are referring to there... 23:43:19 oh.. I meant that attachments should just be downloadable files unless its an applet 23:44:03 I don't understand. applets are not single files. they have at least two... (HTML and class/jar) 23:45:56 well I assumed it would be a jar.. someone in here sid that mediawiki supported running java applets.. that's what I'm basing this on :) 23:46:11 if that's wrong.. then sorry :) 23:46:56 as I see it, you should both be able to download the applet's jar, or run it on the wiki. 23:47:10 that sounds reasonable to me 23:49:44 I wonder what happened to my java interpreter :( 23:50:06 interpreter for what? 23:50:16 for java 23:50:33 it worked some days ago 23:50:50 now it crashes my mozilla 23:50:50 interpreting java? or an interpreter written in java? 23:50:56 ah 23:51:00 runtime 23:56:18 graue: did you see my last entry on Talk: Language list? 23:56:35 not yet 23:56:38 I think I found the way to put the list in the navigation menu 23:57:00 but I didn't have permissions to test it 23:59:36 yay! I've run the java applet in the original profile (after saving my tabs) and it worked... it's like java does not like multiple instances