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02:06:27 <graue_> GregorR: is FukYourBrane really a programming language, rather than a game?
02:07:03 <graue_> it's definitely of interest to the Esoteric World, but i'm thinking maybe it shouldn't go on the language list in the wiki
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03:40:08 <graue_> the wiki doesn't have any programming languages whose names start with X
03:40:15 <graue_> someone make up a language with a name that starts with an X
04:20:42 <GregorR> graue_: I guess the question is, is RedCode a programming language?
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04:31:51 <graue_> RedCode may be but CoreWars isn't
04:33:35 <graue_> FYB/FukYorBrane is associated with your game, not with the language, and you use the page to describe the game, not the language
04:33:43 <graue_> hence, i'd call it a game, and not a language
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04:34:48 <GregorR> I see. So where should I link to it? I'd rather not have it just be a hanging page ...
04:35:10 <graue> add it to [[Category:Brainfuck derivatives]]
04:35:50 <graue> perhaps link it from Brainfuck as a "more interesting variant", too
04:37:15 * GregorR is unsure how to get to the Category: Brainfuck derivatives page ...
04:39:11 <graue> add "[[Category:Brainfuck derivatives]]" at the end of the FYB article
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06:30:23 <GregorR-L> Cool new verbose system implemented.
06:30:36 <GregorR-L> Produces megs of output for a run, but is very helpful.
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07:45:26 <graue> i uploaded a wiki sql backup to http://www.oceanbase.org/graue/junk/sqlbackup.zip
07:45:34 <graue> so pgimeno, you can download that and stop worrying
07:45:46 <graue> it doesn't have the images, but there was only one image anyway, and it sucked, so no great loss
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14:12:36 <kipple> Gregor: are the periods at the end of each line optional in ORK?
14:13:01 <GregorR> It ignores the punctuation, but it's good for clarity *shrugs*
14:13:20 <kipple> I'm writing a polyglot, so it's nice to know these things :)
14:13:34 <GregorR> Good luck with that *head explodes*
14:13:57 <kipple> so far I have brainfuck, befunge and ORK and it was rather trivial
14:14:57 <kipple> I can put the befunge and brainfuck code straight into the file, and ORK just ignores it!
14:15:03 <GregorR> I guess since you would only need to formally comment in ORK, it ought not be too hard *shrugs*
14:15:27 <GregorR> I didn't make an } else { printf("THIS BAD CODE!!!"); }
14:15:33 <kipple> what do you mean with "formally comment"?
14:15:46 <GregorR> Well, by the spec you have to use a # to comment.
14:16:03 <kipple> hehe. same with kipple :)
14:16:22 <jix> cipple support both types of comments
14:16:51 <kipple> what is the other type? (not #)
14:17:39 <jix> 10>o This is ignored because here is no command "Hello">o
14:18:21 <jix> i tried to get as close to your interpreter as possible
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14:38:28 <kipple> Yay! I've got the polyglot working with befunge, brainfuck, kipple and ORK :)
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14:46:39 <kipple> but I intend to add several more languages
14:51:28 <kipple> program that is valid in more than one language
14:51:55 <kipple> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyglot_(computing)
14:59:27 <kipple> still a work in progress...
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15:01:30 <sp3tt> From the eight language polyglot page: "25 Jan 2001Richard StallmanThe proper name is GNU/Polyglot, damn you!"
15:03:13 <sp3tt> I am working on a language with some basic self modification...
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15:38:08 <Keymaker> hey! i wanna write a polyglot too!
15:38:54 <malaprop> Keymaker: Just write 'print "hello world";' and you've got python, perl, and PHP done. :
15:40:34 <malaprop> Now if you really want to have fun, write a polygot quine.
15:41:00 <Keymaker> that sounds really interesting
15:41:14 <jix> malaprop: ruby too
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15:45:35 <jix> but for php you need <?php ?>
15:47:02 <jix> one of my polyglots: http://rafb.net/paste/results/d6Bq0K77.html
15:47:12 <jix> 4 languages
16:17:17 <sp3tt> http://rename.noll8.nu/sp3tt/mathspec.txt Comments?
16:20:21 <jix> are you going to use the 8 bf commands ?
16:27:59 <GregorR> RMS doesn't get the respect he deserves.
16:28:49 <malaprop> Did RMS create an esolang that doesn't have a wiki page?
16:29:14 <GregorR> I guess it's not a language, but it's pretty damn esoteric.
16:29:35 <GregorR> I was just referring to the quip about "GNU/Polyglot"
16:30:11 <GregorR> I'll stop calling "Linux" GNU/Linux the day I decide to release a program I care about under a weak license like BSD instead of GPL.
16:30:29 <GregorR> (Not that those are directly related)
16:32:53 <kipple> sp3tt: do you have some code examples?
16:33:24 <sp3tt> http://rename.noll8.nu/sp3tt/hw.math
16:34:26 <sp3tt> Basically uses a stack to print Hello world, when it can be done without one. Also demonstrates how to use userdefined vars in functions.
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17:02:25 <jix> http://rafb.net/paste/results/MmZgkY86.html
17:02:58 <jix> my 5 lang poly that prints: Just another <Insert Language Here> hacker,\n
17:03:33 <sp3tt> :O I am surprised it is even possible.
17:04:34 <jix> in c i'm using #define:s and /**/ to comment the other code out
17:04:49 <jix> in bf i jump ([-][ code ]) over the code containing ,s
17:05:03 <jix> in ruby i end the code with __END__
17:05:11 <jix> (with is defined as c macro ;) )
17:06:02 <jix> line 13,14 is a comment for bash to line 21 and for perl to 24
17:06:20 <jix> line 23 is a comment for bash to line 26
17:06:33 <jix> now i'm going to add whitespace ;)
17:09:51 <jix> i'm not going to do that
17:22:13 <CXI> [-][code] isn't really safe
17:22:53 <CXI> you were talking about something specific, not in general
17:26:29 <jix> Kipple is included
17:26:38 <jix> 6 langs.. i rule ;)
17:27:36 <jix> uh.. it's working with Cipple but not with the java interpreter
17:28:14 <jix> Cipple is very syntax tolerant =<<- is ignored because neither the first nor the second < have valid arguments
17:45:35 <sp3tt> 3 != 3 according to python...
17:50:01 <jix> 3 != 3 #=> False
17:51:05 <malaprop> sp3tt: that evaluates to False for me
17:54:32 <sp3tt> Not according to python if you don't use int() correctly first <.<
17:56:30 <jix> enough polygloting for today..
17:56:41 <jix> time to write down lazybrain specs
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17:59:13 <jix> moin OliBir
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19:21:34 <kipple> anybody familiar with C-INTERCAL here? Chris?
19:21:54 <kipple> I get an error when trying to compile the included examples
19:21:57 <kipple> ICL999I NO SKELETON IN MY CLOSET, WOE IS ME!
19:21:57 <kipple> CORRECT SOURCE AND RESUBNIT
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20:12:17 <pgimeno> kipple: I don't know about C-INTERCAL but that error sounds as if it depends on a file from the distribution that can't be found
20:19:02 <kipple> it's the same error that comes if I try to compile a file which doesn't exist.
20:19:37 <pgimeno> the "no skeleton" part suggest it but you never know
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21:52:10 <Keymaker> i'm gonna be few days away starting from tomorrow
21:52:39 <Keymaker> a 140km bike trip (and the other 140km back)
21:53:00 <Keymaker> the longest trip i have ever done is ~10km
22:05:53 <Keymaker> it took me about 20 mins to realize a logical error..
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22:07:52 <graue> yeah, C is pretty damn annoying
22:15:10 <jix> but it's fast
22:17:29 * GregorR hugs DirectNet, OBLISK, orkc, 2lc, and FYB.
22:17:41 <GregorR> You're such a wonderful language. What power, what grace.
22:18:15 * GregorR does some pointer manipulation.
22:18:35 <graue> C is easy to learn because it does exactly what you tell it, but like, if you make large projects with it, it sort of becomes an impossible mess
22:19:34 <graue> doesn't it? right?
22:19:56 <GregorR> Any language can become an impossible mess.
22:20:04 <GregorR> Mozilla is an impossible mess because of bad design.
22:20:14 <GregorR> But yes, C doesn't HELP any ;)
22:21:49 <graue> we need an INTERCAL article at the wiki
22:21:52 <graue> anyone feel like writing one?
22:27:21 <graue> INTERCAL is one of those classic esoteric programming languages everyone praises and nobody programs in, i guess
22:32:13 <pgimeno> someone said recently in the GMP mailing list: 'C' gives you enough rope to hang yourself, and will even do the favor of throwing one end of the rope over the tree for you ...
22:32:59 <graue> i made a lame stub for INTERCAL just to have something there
22:33:21 <graue> by the way, pgimeno, did you see the SQL backup i made available?
22:33:35 <pgimeno> yes, it's here, thanks! :)
22:34:03 <pgimeno> but I suspect I'm not the only one who wants to make backups
22:34:21 <GregorR> Most people look at that rope, and go "hey, that's handy!" then kill themselves.
22:34:43 <GregorR> The trick is to use the rope to devise a pully system, and then exert less effort to get your task done.
22:34:57 <GregorR> Also, stretch all metaphores far beyond any real meaning.
22:36:41 <pgimeno> I just read partially the spec of INTERCAL, a few years ago
22:37:19 <pgimeno> some day I want to read it fully
22:37:28 <jix> wasn't INTERCAL designed to be uninterpretable/compilable?
22:37:45 <pgimeno> it was designed just to be different
22:38:10 <pgimeno> there are interpreters and compilers, or that's what I thought
22:38:14 <jix> i have my spec writing setup complete... i can start writing specs fast now!
22:38:51 <jix> pgimeno: yes but afaik they tried to make it as hard as possible to code them
22:39:16 <GregorR> An esoteric language that is neither compilable nor interpretable.
22:39:20 <kipple> I was going to try out INTERCAL today, but I can't even manage to compile the example programs :(
22:39:44 <GregorR> How about a language that acts differently depending on the author's eye color.
22:39:58 <GregorR> Since the computer can't know that, it can neither compile nor interpret it.
22:40:06 <GregorR> Though I guess it could be an input.
22:40:10 <kipple> you would need a web cam
22:40:40 <jix> How about a language that acts differently depending on the author's thoughts
22:41:11 <Keymaker> and uses author's brain cells as memory
22:41:13 <pgimeno> if the author is thinking "Sex" then it prints "Hello, world!"
22:41:32 <kipple> and if it is think "beer" then...
22:41:45 <pgimeno> that's easy in basic: 10 PRINT "Hello, World!" 20 GOTO 10
22:41:46 <Keymaker> 99 booootleeeees oof beeer on thee waaaal
22:42:57 <pgimeno> some day I'll submit my Choon program
22:43:12 <pgimeno> too bad the wav converter crashes
22:47:44 <malaprop> This sounds like the work of David R. Hawkins.
23:31:21 <pgimeno> kipple: I've reproduced the problem; when I do an strace I get this: open("/usr/local/share/intercal-0.24/ick-wrap.c", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
23:34:44 <pgimeno> there's an intercal package available for Debian, apparently (is it the first esoteric language to be in a Linux distribution?)
23:35:32 <pgimeno> two, actually; one in perl and the other seems to be c-intercal
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23:35:44 <jix> my current specs (just lang design no syntax yet): http://www.harderweb.de/jix/langs/lazybrain/specs.rc.txt (redcloth text file) http://www.harderweb.de/jix/langs/lazybrain/specs.html the generated html
23:37:59 <GregorR> pgimeno: I'm pretty sure it's not the first, they've got Java.
23:44:59 <jix> updated my .txt => html script to output strict xhtml (the automatic content list generation is done by me... txt => html is redcloth and html cleanup is tidy)
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23:49:41 <jix> i've done an important part of my specs and no one cares .. ;)
23:53:49 <GregorR> For a basic idea of "be patient," consider that it was several weeks between my writing FYB and your picking it up ;)
23:54:28 <jix> GregorR: but it was 5min between i knew about FYB and my first test program ;)
23:56:04 <GregorR> However, we cannot yet write programs in lazybrain.
23:56:33 <jix> hehe.. yes. but i just want some respond to my ideas..
23:56:36 <jix> With spelling?
23:59:22 <kipple> Yay! the debian intercal package works!