< 1118275596 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi GregorR < 1118275618 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.. autocomplete gave away my laziness :) < 1118278303 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1118278303 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1118278306 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1118278315 0 :cmeme!~cmeme@216.184.11.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1118278566 0 :cpressey!nobody@d154-20-76-195.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118278811 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.241.88.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118281647 0 :heatsink!~heatsink@c-24-61-94-111.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118284690 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1118285796 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1118293083 0 :heatsink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1118294950 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.69.102.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118295179 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1118295377 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION eats calamari. < 1118295381 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, squid. < 1118295394 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"sleep" < 1118295650 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1118296160 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1118297300 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.114.76.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118297308 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re < 1118297331 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1118297367 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pgimeno, how's it going? :) < 1118297393 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine, except that a mosquito woke me up earlier than I wish < 1118297408 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you been away or something? < 1118297418 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you live? no mosquitos in Tucson, AZ right now :) < 1118297425 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spain < 1118297451 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: yeah, I walked into the kitchen and the room was full of gas.. had to get off to call maintenance < 1118297473 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck, sounds dangerous < 1118297507 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. I'm not very familiar with gas stoves yet.. I've had electric all my life < 1118297554 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried esoshell but even 'help' fails to work... I don't know what happens < 1118297570 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1118298076 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: yeah, that's weird.. < 1118298106 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can write a Java 1.1 version of the applet... I should try it < 1118299229 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, got a test button working in AWT.. now on the rest of the application :) < 1118299253 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, good ooooooooooooooool' AWT < 1118299330 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the ooooooooool' part ;) < 1118299339 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence the preponderance of 'o's ;) < 1118299430 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is java 1.4, for the record < 1118299466 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm running Java pre-alpha 0.1, will it work for me? < 1118299638 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1118299661 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO, who wants to form the #esoteric chat room on DirectNet? 8-D < 1118300054 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: are we moving? :) < 1118300068 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm just trying to get users :'( < 1118300091 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes freenode < 1118300101 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DirectNet isn't IRC :P < 1118300113 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh really? what is it? < 1118300122 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's DirectNet 8-D < 1118300125 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1118300137 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's my instant messaging and chat system (shameless plug points +1) < 1118300834 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to work < 1118301769 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm it works.. kinda :) < 1118301821 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to remove a duplicate set of unwanted scrollbars < 1118302435 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: btw, a tricky keyevent bug has been fixed in gnu classpath and now esoshell can be used with it < 1118302456 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's still some repaint problem though, but it does not render it unusable < 1118302597 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: cool! :) < 1118302622 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure that I < 1118302635 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'ll be able to restrict the cursor w/ AWT.. but I'm trying < 1118302991 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: why AWT? < 1118303019 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: the applet does not seem to work at all with IE.. I'm hoping now it will < 1118303030 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try it :) < 1118303068 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I want to try to get it working for pgimeno < 1118303091 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno? < 1118303109 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1118303620 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't get it.. still doesn't work in IE < 1118303999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1118304000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1118304794 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's running in IE, kinda < 1118305266 0 :sp3tt!~chatzilla@lite-148-133.umenet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118305349 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what pgimeno is < 1118305482 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: pgimeno is a guy that hangs out in here :) < 1118305491 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me, concretely ;) < 1118305493 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re < 1118305502 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: hi :) < 1118305510 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: ah :) < 1118305514 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the effort, calamari < 1118305538 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: try this (I'm very curious) http://lilly.csoft.net/~jeffryj/EsoShell-AWT/ < 1118305560 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks terrible and doesn't work right.. but maybe it'll load? < 1118305630 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does load indeed and it looks terrible indeed ;) < 1118305681 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool.. it's "working" in IE < 1118305691 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to click where the cursor should be :) < 1118305890 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :StringBuffer didn't have a delete method until Java 1.2.. lol < 1118305928 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet there are plenty of these little 1.2+ bugs hiding everywhere < 1118305976 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I repeat that this is 1.4 < 1118306064 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: IE doesn't seem to like it unless it's 1.1 or below < 1118306076 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries < 1118306099 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the Java methods < 1118306109 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe iut's the way I'm compiling it < 1118306155 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I see, IE does not load anything < 1118306175 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? works here (ie 6) < 1118306250 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, now they work in reverse: EsoShell/ works in IE while EsoShell-AWT does not (IE 6.0.2600.0000.whatever, Java 1.4.2_06) < 1118306514 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snapshot: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoshell.png < 1118306551 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the truncation is there in the original < 1118306816 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah thats the awt version.. I didn't bother fixing the size yet < 1118306837 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1118306904 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm trying to find out is whether I can actually run 1.2+ functions in IE.. I have Java1.4 installed so the answer should be yes < 1118306951 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, then I can probably use the original Swing stuff < 1118307108 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is bf supposed to work? < 1118307149 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the Swing version, yes < 1118307188 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lots of awt bugs right now < 1118307232 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"write once, run everywhere"... ha < 1118307649 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: sure, just use gnu classpath :) < 1118307907 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I found my problem, at least.. it may be using Microsoft Java and not Sun < 1118307915 0 :sp3tt_!~chatzilla@lite-148-133.umenet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118307951 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay for qemu < 1118308207 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lindi-: gcj must have come a long way since the last time I used it if it can run Swing apps now < 1118308407 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1118310450 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool.. my Java install was broken.. even http://kidsquid.com/EsoShell works in IE6 now.. boy is Sun Java slow compared to the Microsoft JIT.. took about 10 minutes to load the applet in qemu < 1118310624 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess MS preloads stuff to create the illusion that it loads faster < 1118310679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This box has Sun's jdk-1.5/5.0/whatever, and it loads in a ~second. < 1118310701 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, google maps is so awesome < 1118310707 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: or it's so old that it only can use java 1.1 ;) < 1118310732 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, same with my linux machine.. it's only slow in the emulator < 1118310822 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: any idea how to add the applet to the wiki? < 1118310834 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament; it seems to lack this thing called Europe. < 1118310870 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm not sure that's possible directly < 1118310878 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but i'm in america < 1118310888 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: it has < 1118310895 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just so completely amazing < 1118310919 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can switch to satellite view and get from anywhere to anywhere by scrolling the thing < 1118310950 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quality gets very shitty outside populated areas though :( < 1118310995 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: try asking graue < 1118311078 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mt. St. Helens < 1118311079 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=46.197510,-122.187195&spn=0.212173,0.276031&t=k&hl=en < 1118311091 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for spain we have http://sigpac.mapa.es/fega/visor/ < 1118311188 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man los angeles is fucking HUGE < 1118311225 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: oh that's right.. hafta beg to upload files, don't I? hehe < 1118311268 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can get svn write permissions but that's not a wiki page by itself < 1118311298 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=46.197510,-122.187195&spn=0.212173,0.276031&t=k&hl=en < 1118311342 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1118311343 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.208649,-73.164825&spn=0.848694,1.104126&t=k&hl=en < 1118311515 0 :DMM!DMM@203-206-252-109.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1118311572 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi DMM < 1118311577 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evening < 1118311932 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read about Homespring for the first time today. Wow... that just blew me away :-) < 1118312056 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've been wondering which of npiet or the perl interpreter is more correct according to the piet specs < 1118312107 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... I haven't looked at them myself. What's the difference? < 1118312212 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please see http://www.bertnase.de/npiet/picture.html < 1118312215 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bottom) < 1118312256 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi dmm < 1118312280 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMM: graue is afraid to use your fibonacci program as the logo < 1118312289 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMM: because the npiet page says it has a bug and doesn't work < 1118312307 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the page pgimeno just gave a link to) < 1118312314 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intended the npiet behaviour of sliding in a straight line < 1118312351 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, there may be a bug :-( < 1118312363 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to code in when you don't have an interpreter :-) < 1118312426 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you never actually checked the program? < 1118312481 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with an interpreter. There was none when I wrote them. I traced them by hand. < 1118312587 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might just need a black codel instead of the white one above the yellow block < 1118312967 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just tried that and it prints 112 and exits < 1118312968 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1118312973 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1118312980 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1118312980 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Prelude qualify as a turing tarpit? < 1118313002 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1118313004 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has 19 instructions < 1118313009 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ten of which push numbers 0..9 < 1118313016 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: please feel free to debug it properly :-) < 1118313109 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :112 implies it's traversing the loop once and then falling out < 1118313151 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might need changing of the yellow codel below the blue loop entry point to another colour < 1118313435 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just like making the languages... actually coding in them isn't nearly as much fun. :-) < 1118313447 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1118313547 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some cool ideas for more non-textual languages < 1118313585 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of surprised that Piet seems to be the first one < 1118313637 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see a graphical language with graphical output < 1118313642 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to do a Tetris-based one, where you drop different blocks into a well, and when the rows disappear, the configuration of colours in the row causes operations to occur < 1118313669 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there're non-textual languages < 1118313682 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aardappel made a bunch i believe < 1118313692 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh < 1118313762 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Tetris-based lang could be NP-complete to code in :) < 1118313911 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed he has. A lot of tree-based ones though... < 1118314007 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference for Tetris NP-completeness: http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~edemaine/papers/Tetris_TR2002/ < 1118314192 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1118314196 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION creates http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Popular_problem < 1118314206 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if the article name is any good < 1118314406 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good article. Yeah, there's no obvious name for it < 1118314517 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders a quine in Piet... < 1118314547 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1118314557 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never specify the format of input < 1118314590 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "any lossless graphics format", pretty much? < 1118314591 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers or characters :-) < 1118314601 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that... yeah, basically < 1118314630 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm actually working (sort of) on a language where source code is polyphonic music < 1118314644 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ideally it's really just the colours. The encoding into a graphics format is just a way of representing the program, not the program itself. :_) < 1118314662 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so confused as to what format i would use that i doubt i'll ever implement it < 1118314674 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh... I thought of a music-based language just yesterday. But I guess I'll let you do it first :-) < 1118314675 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just write programs and play them on the piano :) < 1118314686 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i already have one as it happens :) < 1118314700 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :documented? < 1118314701 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not sure if it's good enough < 1118314702 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1118314703 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1118314707 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a look at Prelude < 1118314720 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Prelude < 1118314733 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fugue will be the same, except with different intervals corresponding to different instructions < 1118314746 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each "voice" is indeed a separate voice < 1118314750 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note duration doesn't matter < 1118314787 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1118315030 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of a language based on actual music. Where the note, duration, key, time signature, etc are important < 1118315046 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd write it on a stave < 1118315064 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's no reason to have EVERYTHING be important < 1118315074 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no... < 1118315105 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fugue you write on a stave. But the only thing that matters are the intervals (and the number of voices) < 1118315178 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :music notation is just way too packed with different kinds of info < 1118315182 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, now you got the complete spec? < 1118315195 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Fugue? on < 1118315197 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1118315209 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1118315219 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can just tell you the provisional list of intervals < 1118315243 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just afraid my provisional list sucks < 1118315632 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to learn Prelude < 1118315687 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got some TV to watch... later guys < 1118315710 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: about ^ and v, does it pop the top value from current voice? < 1118315716 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzlet: no < 1118315721 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't pop anything at all < 1118315726 0 :DMM!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1118315742 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only ! and # would pop the top value? < 1118315744 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1118315819 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i get it < 1118315846 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my thinking about a music-based language is that only note increases/decreases count as instructions; that allows for maximum expressiveness IMO < 1118315862 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how Fugue will work. < 1118315874 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice! < 1118315881 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should just release the damn spec actually. < 1118315885 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the () idea, looks like a pair of repeat bars < 1118315894 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, how about I do that. < 1118315959 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is your plan to notate down the music into a file? < 1118315972 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No plans at all < 1118315978 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not planning to implement Fugue :) < 1118315994 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sad < 1118316033 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish to write a meta-code, which itself is a true fugue.. < 1118316076 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1118316108 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Fugue code is written on midi, midi format doesn't have repeat bars. < 1118316138 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not write an implementation? just write a Fourier analyzer to interpret the sound coming to the soundcard; you could even whistle the programs < 1118316158 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzlet: actually repeating a sound when the program is in a loop is kinda silly. < 1118316176 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: you can't very well whistle three-part polyphony < 1118316205 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the help of two other guys, you can :) < 1118316206 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why we should do a pair programming < 1118316211 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or trio programming < 1118316277 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming in pairs is part of the "xtreme programming" philosophy < 1118316296 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know. i was joking :) < 1118316322 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1118316337 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, instead of handing the keyboard one to the other, they could both whistle at the same time < 1118316365 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can increase the production of code < 1118316716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should implement the rest of my Prelude Befunge interpreter. < 1118316778 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1118316782 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Fugue < 1118317353 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, indeed < 1118317392 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it needs too much information in my opinion < 1118317424 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine the BF quine that starts with a lot of +++++++>++++>++++++++... < 1118317476 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so write a symphony < 1118317518 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that ++++++++ is just three notes in Fugue < 1118317561 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any third and an ascending minor sixth < 1118317561 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking in the line of "note increment wrt the last" = 1; "note decrement wrt the last" = 0; "same note" = "repeat last symbol", and a minimalistic two-symbol language like whirl, iota or jot < 1118317594 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1118317604 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might work but notes would soon go out of range < 1118317610 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audible range, that is < 1118317627 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because you can always correct < 1118317634 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by pushing a number and popping it < 1118317643 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, then that's OK < 1118317652 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. any third + any interval whatever + repeat last note < 1118317681 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've forgotten to include it in the main list, btw < 1118317688 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include what? < 1118317696 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fugue < 1118317699 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1118317727 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we really need both the main list and category:language < 1118317765 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fugue is definitely harder to write nice-sounding music in than a language like you proposed < 1118317784 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea was that the main list hold short one-line descriptions of each language < 1118317792 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who ever sad writing music should be easy :) < 1118317796 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*said < 1118317835 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember someone saying that most songs can be distinguished by coding the increments/decrements of notes in them < 1118317872 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what suggested me the idea < 1118317970 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1118318082 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, how do you define ' ' in Fugue? < 1118318105 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no ' ' < 1118318113 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have pauses < 1118318119 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or long notes < 1118318134 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do note lengths matter? < 1118318166 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in that they establish what comes before what. < 1118318175 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or simultaneously with) < 1118318254 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1118318824 0 :kipple!~kipple@163.80-202-100.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1118321123 0 :Keymaker!~Not@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1118321145 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1118321215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1118321243 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[.>] < 1118321388 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ < 1118321473 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-] < 1118321475 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1118321527 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm reading about pygame < 1118321532 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's confusing when there are + and - signs all over what others say. < 1118321540 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:47:57] +.. < 1118321541 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:48:25] +[.>] < 1118321541 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:50:50] +++ < 1118321541 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:52:15] -[-] < 1118321562 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w+h-a-t ++do +y-ou+ ++me-a+n++? < 1118321641 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems it's server's problem < 1118321693 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see + and - signs everwhere in freenode, and even ACTION's don't look as what they should look. < 1118321758 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's strange < 1118321770 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1118321784 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it must be because of your IRC client < 1118321791 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1118321816 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use irssi. i checked rawlog, but there are the signs there too < 1118321869 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it just came out to happen yesterday when i restarted the client. no changes to configuration < 1118322351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, strange. I don't see any +s. < 1118322360 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is irssi, too.) < 1118323694 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know where i could find this file pygame-1.6.win32-py2.4.exe (windows pygame)? < 1118323699 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't download from official site < 1118323721 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(404) < 1118323803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, http://www.willmcgugan.com/pygame-1.6.win32-py2.4.exe for example. < 1118323805 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says google. < 1118323865 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google? is that some new search engine? < 1118323869 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, thanks < 1118323913 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keymaker, you must be kidding < 1118324035 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1118324042 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of any google before < 1118324131 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/ < 1118324403 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was joking ;) < 1118324521 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you scared me < 1118324843 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1118324856 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Keymaker just found the internet yesterday ;) < 1118325010 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1118326450 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1118327012 0 :malaprop!~ph@ppp-68-251-59-237.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118327059 0 :lament!~lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118332343 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: seen movie "hawaii, oslo" < 1118332347 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1118332427 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1118332444 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1118332447 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it good? < 1118332455 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was ok < 1118332462 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1118332479 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? are you gonna watch it? < 1118332504 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just thought because it starts screening here and there reads it was huge success in norway < 1118332508 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe < 1118332542 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a bit overrated IMHO. It got extremely good reviews here < 1118332550 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1118332555 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the story sounds interesting < 1118332616 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should i perhaps go to see "white noise"? < 1118332622 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some new horror movie < 1118332633 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know anything about that one < 1118332816 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1118332864 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds a bit cliché.. < 1118332878 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dunno :) < 1118332897 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :movies just tend to be cliché today because everything's done before < 1118334076 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.. i'll go to see movie "hostage" < 1118334081 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 20:30 < 1118334711 0 :sp3tt_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wrote a 4 page PDF on brainfuck >.< < 1118334716 0 :sp3tt_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was bored. < 1118334979 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1118335000 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upload it somewhere, i'd like to read it later when it get back home < 1118335044 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i need to leave now because i booked the movie ticket from web so i need to get it before 19:30) < 1118335047 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'bye < 1118335053 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doh, Piet is troublesome in that inserting or removing an instruction means changing the whole program < 1118335057 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later Keymaker < 1118335061 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I've seen this déjà vu before.." < 1118335103 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the issue of incremental instructions < 1118335189 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to write a new program than to modify an existing one < 1118335233 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to fix the fibonacci Piet program but I think that writing another one will be easier < 1118335301 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that one which prints "ESOTERIC" will be OK to be used as a logo < 1118337848 0 :sp3tt_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sp3tt < 1118338399 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this Piet program prints "ESO": http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/eso-big.png < 1118338541 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: nice < 1118338554 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, I'm not much of an artist < 1118339183 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1118339187 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's awesome. < 1118339297 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice pgimeno! < 1118342108 0 :wooby!~wooby@cpe-065-191-186-247.nc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1118351510 0 :graue!~piecrust@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118354997 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.114.146.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118355003 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1118355033 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1118355080 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hio < 1118355094 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey lament, wooby.. what's new & exciting? < 1118355127 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much, working through a bison tutorial with the ultimate hope of fashioning a BF compiler < 1118355156 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nifty < 1118355175 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will be the hll? < 1118355192 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something you invent, or c-like? < 1118355233 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by hll? < 1118355245 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm at the very start of this tutorial, you see :) < 1118355251 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high level language < 1118355256 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: i'm guessing he wants to compile brainfuck < 1118355260 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I misunderstand what you're trying to do < 1118355277 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: oic < 1118355292 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament is correct < 1118355314 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my usual fun is compiling to bf, so I get easily confused :) < 1118355335 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol i know what you mean, i'm interested in that too :) < 1118355347 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about you, what's new and great < 1118355392 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1118355541 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooby: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/BF_instruction_minimalization < 1118355578 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooby: I think that last step still needs a bit of work, though :) I'd like a way to modify every bit, not just every other < 1118355741 0 :Keymaker!~Not@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1118355744 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, that's fascinating < 1118355747 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno: looks great < 1118355751 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: wow!!!!! < 1118355754 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that stuff is great < 1118355770 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember if i have mentioned that before, i saw that link yesterday < 1118355776 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc) < 1118355804 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keymaker: thanks.. but I haven't really progressed much past BitChanger of a few years ago < 1118355933 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's really good achievement too < 1118356003 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that it's turing complete yet < 1118356091 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example (}()) should be like [-]<.. but it only gets it by luck < 1118356583 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it'd be (()}) wouldn't it < 1118357088 0 :graue_!~graue@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118357345 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi graue < 1118359115 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and btw, "hostage" was very good movie < 1118359280 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi calamari < 1118359571 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: I'd really like to integrate EsoShell into the wiki. Would you like to work on it with me? < 1118359609 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd rather not have executable code running out of the wiki < 1118359616 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for information, not running programs < 1118359671 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: your vision of the wiki is a bit narrower than I'd hoped for < 1118359708 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm halfway wondering if you'll be pulling up those in-progress pages at any moment < 1118359829 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I realize it's your wiki, you're running it, and all that.. which I appreciate.. but perhaps if you're going to stifle the expressive purposes of the wiki we need to abandon your stranglehold and start a new wiki elsewhere < 1118359880 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: how exactly were you thinking of integrating the esoshell into the wiki? < 1118359925 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: when all this wiki talk started up again, it was suggested that it'd be cool to be able to experimentally test esolangs from the wiki < 1118359944 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I know. I think it was me who suggested it... < 1118359959 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add a prominent external link then < 1118359976 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could put it in the files archive and link to it from the wiki. < 1118360040 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of wiki and files, what's the word on scheduled dumps? < 1118360110 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help me out, how do i dump a mysql database from the command line? < 1118360140 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a program called mysqldump < 1118360156 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysqldump -a -c -C-e --add-drop-table --delayed-insert -Q -u (username) -p(password) -h (host) (db-name) < 1118360170 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, there should be a space between -C and -e < 1118360186 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably tag onto the end > filename < 1118360207 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pipe it to gzip < 1118360232 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: or bzip2 as it deals better with text < 1118360240 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so true < 1118360247 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't bzip2 deal better with everything, not just text? < 1118360267 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzip2 deals especially better with text < 1118360284 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I don't know, I haven't done or seen good research. < 1118360299 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be nice if the images directory is included in the zip as well < 1118360332 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could just download the one and only image from commons.wikimedia.org if anything happens < 1118360387 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but hopefully there will be more eventually... < 1118360425 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then hopefully i can archive the images directory too, eventually < 1118360435 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe. sure < 1118360442 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1118360724 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm getting an error 1044, access denied... when using LOCK TABLES < 1118360730 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.150.97.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118360786 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb calamari < 1118360810 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi wooby.. lost my connection < 1118360814 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks what he missed < 1118360869 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: so you're saying that you're not going to host the files or the html to run them? < 1118360918 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i'm not saying that; they could go in the files archive, or in a new area < 1118360933 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am saying they should not be part of the wiki < 1118360947 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: why not? < 1118360981 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because java applets are a huge can of worms < 1118360987 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way? < 1118361008 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i for one will not be able to use them; they'll freeze my windows 98 box, and on gnu/linux they'll give me ugly messages about installing nonfree plugins < 1118361020 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's silly to junk up a page like that, when the point is information < 1118361034 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the applet wouldn't be on every page < 1118361053 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue_: sounds like your db user doesn't have access rights to lock the db tables < 1118361053 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd only be on one page < 1118361073 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why not have that page in the files archive? < 1118361089 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: how does that work? you need html to run the applet < 1118361097 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1118361106 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the files archive is accessible with HTTP < 1118361111 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if it's just a file it can't be run < 1118361123 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it defeats the purpose of being an applet < 1118361129 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just put both the HTML file and the JAR in the archive < 1118361177 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whouldn't it look nicer to have the wiki framework around it? < 1118361187 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see the big problem < 1118361197 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it would not look nicer to make the wiki display missing plugin messages and/or freeze my browser < 1118361227 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: umm.. java doesn't freeze my browser.. fix your browser then < 1118361260 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's constructive < 1118361264 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: He's using IE, can't fix. < 1118361283 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the applet would have to be on a page of it's own anyway, so people who don't want to run applets can just avoid that page < 1118361284 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the machine is a pentium 2, it's old and slow < 1118361294 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: it would be < 1118361319 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is my old, slow, broken computer can still access the wiki, because the wiki is just text, just information < 1118361328 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again, that would not be much different from an external page < 1118361329 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd be able to edit it just like any other wiki page, to add content about ysing the program < 1118361348 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so add that content to the EsoShell article < 1118361360 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the instructions and program shouldn't be on the same page < 1118361379 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, I disagree < 1118361394 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had so many plans for this.. so frustrating to be blocked by ignorance < 1118361407 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very nice to have instructions on the same page, so you can simply scroll down when you need to look at them < 1118361407 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't blocked < 1118361418 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using an external page is not a blockade < 1118361450 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an idea.. don't go to the EsoShell wiki page ;) < 1118361459 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i want to read about it? < 1118361466 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then read about it < 1118361477 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what page do i go to to just read about it? < 1118361490 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the EsoShell page < 1118361494 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1118361502 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow... < 1118361510 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you just told me not to go to < 1118361517 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be nicer to have separate pages for different languages < 1118361531 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that hard: files archive (and hypothetical other sections of site) = stuff, wiki = descriptions of stuff < 1118361541 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for exmaple, a page full of bf programs to copy and paste in while running the applet < 1118361551 0 :graue_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i encourage you to add a link at the bottom of each language, pointing to the convenient interpreter for that language < 1118361589 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: you still haven't said what is so wrong about allowing a Java applet directly on the wiki