< 1118620809 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1118620818 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good ol' arrange->tiled < 1118620999 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do brainfuck files have a .bf extension? < 1118621011 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes .b, sometimes .bf < 1118621023 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually .b I think < 1118621032 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.bf is also used for befunge < 1118621036 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always use .b as .bf is used by befunge < 1118621058 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, thanks much < 1118621117 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf is for befunge, use b instead :) < 1118621127 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use b < 1118621227 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate to think what Befuck and Befreak must use < 1118621279 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there is no reason to limit extension to 1-3 chars really... < 1118621288 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1118621314 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.befuck < 1118621316 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.befreak < 1118621317 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1118621328 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody have a SCSI terminator they can pass me through IRC? < 1118621964 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to fit mine into the floppy drive for DIGITIZING. < 1118622003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for scsi-2, with that HD50 connector, if that's ok. < 1118622075 0 :harkeyahh_!~zillermae@206-81-148-32.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118622157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's originally from an SGI Indy, and has a value-adding "feature" of not being able to fit to the (inset) scsi connectors of an external Sun HD box. < 1118622189 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about?! < 1118622223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SCSI terminator requested few lines ago. < 1118622326 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it? < 1118622330 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very SCSI-inept .... this is old, and I'm not sure how old SCSI-2 is, or whether this is SCSI-2 or SCSI-1 < 1118622392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... if it has a small-ish (well, small for 50 pins) 50-pin connector, it's probably scsi-2. < 1118622407 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty massive. < 1118622420 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is an olde Apple CD-ROM drive. < 1118622443 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, then it's probably the Centronics connector, which is larger. HD50 would look like http://www.cselex.com/images-large/HD50.jpg < 1118622481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess I'd have some sort of trouble DCC'ing a physical object anyway. < 1118622533 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.elara.ie/elara/graphics/Belkin/OR1230000015229.jpg < is this a SCSI terminator? I thought SCSI terminators only had one end ... < 1118622600 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty hard to say from the image. Usually they do have only a single connector. < 1118622600 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1118622606 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1118622656 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keymaker: seen my tentative x=not(x)? < 1118622721 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you give it to me as pure brainfuck? < 1118622744 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get confused by those wiki versions that have instructions replaced with text < 1118622787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying it _isn't_ a terminator, though. Some seem to have two connectors, assumedly to work as terminators when nothing's connected, but allow adding new devices to the end of the chain temporarily. < 1118622810 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assume x is at 0, temp0 is at 1, and D = 0; then: >[-]<[>+<[-]]+>[-<->] < 1118622863 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keymaker: a label means: insert as many > or < as to go to the given label < 1118622915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or possibly a: "Feed-through SCSI terminator: Use this if you have no more connectors left on your cable to connect a SCSI terminator. You plug the last connector in one side of the SCSI terminator and then plug the other side of the terminator into your last device. Helps keep cable lengths short." < 1118622922 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1118623027 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1118623049 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so x is in cell 0? and this is non-wrapping? < 1118623057 0 :harkeyahh_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1118623090 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be mistaken, I haven't tried the code < 1118623097 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should this be < 1118623100 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for bits? < 1118623117 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 0 to 1 and 1 to 0? < 1118623121 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means: if x = 0 then x = 1 else x = 0 < 1118623131 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it works < 1118623152 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it does that, what you said, yes < 1118623153 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that what not(x) does? < 1118623164 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it bitwise not? < 1118623173 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is bitwise not i assume < 1118623178 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1118623181 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1118623184 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1118623197 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed logical not < 1118623245 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for bitwise signed it would be NOT(x)=MAXCELLVALUE-x < 1118623268 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1118623269 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, assuming MAXCELLVALUE is a power of 2 - 1 :) < 1118623288 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait.. i'm confused with these namings < 1118623321 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn;t matter if cell values wrap < 1118623361 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's difference between bitwise and logical? < 1118623369 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does logical return only 0 or 1? < 1118623393 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bitwise does stuff by first slicing values to bits and then doing bit operations and so on? < 1118623398 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, logical NOT returns only TRUE or FALSE < 1118623408 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. then pgimenos code is logical not < 1118623425 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, i got confused with these names) < 1118623451 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logical not that works with values bigger than 1, as well < 1118623452 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bitwise" means one bit at a time < 1118623455 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1118623483 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can cheat a bitwise NOT easily in BF < 1118623556 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{^Raven^}: btw, this is related to http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms < 1118623588 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1118623664 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, my algorithm matches calamari's one except for the last [-x-temp0] instead of [temp0-x-] < 1118623690 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice page there < 1118623697 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1118623707 0 :harkeyahh!~zillermae@206-81-148-32.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118623735 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup ChanServ my babeh < 1118623743 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost finished with TSS < 1118623765 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to program the neutralizer in bf < 1118623861 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suck at BF, btw < 1118623886 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to hack the compiler to get it to work < 1118623888 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I can remember how to program BF: (value)>[-]-<[>-<] sets cell+1 to bitwise NOT cell < 1118623926 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{^Raven^} I should upload it so you can take a look at it < 1118624013 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{^Raven^} http://pastebin.bafserv.com/412 < 1118624027 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the //INSET BF NEUTRALIZER bit < 1118624065 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*note it has been hacked to adjsut for some ASCII differences in TSS < 1118624111 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or >[-]-<[>-<]>[<+>]< to set cell=NOT(cell); (cell+1) = 0 < 1118624146 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I would have done it that way but then the page outputs backwards < 1118624181 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h/o going to get a manual bbm < 1118624483 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logical NOT is a bit harder < 1118624899 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, here's interesting phrase: "Pile up Z's" < 1118624909 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means "Get some sleep" < 1118624920 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to some slang of the fifties page i'm reading < 1118624930 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1118624967 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm, wouldn't logical not just be bitwise not proceeded by [[-]+] ? < 1118624987 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait ... < 1118624997 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's right. < 1118625009 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000000 becomes 11111111 becomes 00000001 < 1118625019 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000001 becomes 11111110 --- never mind, I'm dumb. < 1118625165 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got as far as >[-]<[>+<[-]]>[<+>]< and >[-]+<[>-] but not luck < 1118625182 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep forgetting the other condition < 1118625188 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay got it < 1118625222 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading up i think it will be fine < 1118625252 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is off to bed before morning happens again < 1118625263 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite all < 1118625267 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite raven < 1118625298 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite < 1118625334 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keymaker did you see the TSS source code? < 1118625679 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1118625737 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i must go now < 1118625747 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3:26 am and i'm tired :) < 1118625754 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'nite < 1118625761 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I've seen this déjà vu before.." < 1118626117 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.69.84.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118626124 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1118626136 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoi < 1118626183 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey there < 1118626208 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy < 1118626209 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Raven.. you're mentioned on the wiki under BFBASIC :) < 1118626223 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i? cool! must check that out < 1118626233 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't get too excited.. lol < 1118626243 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, rather than finding a SCSI terminator, I'll ask: Is there any way to install Debian on an olde PowerPC laptop with a disk drive and no networking or CD? :P < 1118626298 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :null-modem cable perhaps? < 1118626312 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Mac. < 1118626316 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i released Lost Kingdom to the world today :) but i guess you know that already ;) < 1118626365 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways i'm off to bed, nite < 1118626392 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: doesn't it have some equivalent of a serial port? < 1118626423 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kipple: It has a modem ... and a strange port with a little telephone on it XD < 1118626431 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gregor is not a macintosh expert :P) < 1118626471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A disk drive as in a floppy one? < 1118626471 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite {^Raven^} < 1118626519 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah. < 1118626520 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raven: cool! (goes off to download) < 1118626523 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it has an HDD too. < 1118626548 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW {^Raven^}, though Lost Kingdom is whooping my arse, it's quite awesome. < 1118626575 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1118626586 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show us how impressive the source in BFBASIC looks < 1118626611 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way it uses brainfuck is no better than giving us a big .exe file < 1118626629 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not a mac expert either.) I've once installed linux on one x86 laptop much like that one. I used the internal modem in the laptop, connected to another modem on a desktop box (with atx3 they won't insist on a dial tone) running pppd, then did a network install. < 1118626634 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and saying "look what i did in machine code!" < 1118626644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For booting you'd probably need a bootable mac floppy. < 1118626660 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: I think a .class file might be a better comparison. < 1118626675 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I can boot into the basic installer, I just can't get the packages from anywhere XD < 1118626690 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, same difference < 1118626705 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is only interesting when it's handwritten < 1118626795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's a version that supports the modem and ppp, you could do it the way I did. If you're _really_ patient, you could also write the packages on gazillion floppies, and copy on the HD, and install from there, using the shell included in the installer. < 1118626815 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, 'copy on the HDD using the shell', I mean. < 1118626864 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd only need two floppies, not a gazillion < 1118626893 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you would have to reuse them a gazillion times < 1118626907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, gazillion floppyfuls (hee, nice word) of data. < 1118626937 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like more fun than I can possibly describe 8-D < 1118626945 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: yeah, it might not be too hard to convert from bfbasic bf back to bfbasic, since the source for bfbasic is available < 1118626962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like watching paint dry, only less interesting. < 1118627066 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: re: handwritten, I disagree.. it might be a little unsettling to see a larger project in bf, but I think most people would agree that asm doesn't work out the best for huge projects.. bf is like asm in many ways < 1118627144 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just makes sense to use a compiler in large cases < 1118627449 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, yeah, but then why use brainfuck? < 1118627491 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason to use brainfuck is it's challenging and interesting to write in < 1118627510 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're compiling, why not just compile for your machine? < 1118627586 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote a DOS program once using only a hex editor, and that was interesting to have written something in machine code, but i don't compile mammoth C programs to 2 MB binaries and say, hey, look what i wrote in machine code! < 1118627592 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason for it being interesting is a lie < 1118627775 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: bf is cross platform.. and it is interesting to me: 1) example of the power of bf, 2) a fun game, 3) using bfbasic, 4) big, etc < 1118627802 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope that helps < 1118627836 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: and if you have something cool to show off that your wrote in c, I don't think anyone here would mind :) < 1118627837 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough, but you gotta admit it ain't nothin' like a program actually written in brainfuck < 1118627881 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: you wouldn't use bfbasic in a bfgolf tournament.. is that what you're looking for? :) < 1118627941 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote this in C, which is cross platform because it runs in wine: http://www.thunderpalace.com/software/blockman/ < 1118627952 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess everyone here will be astounded at how impressive that is < 1118628138 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive, most impressive.. obi-wan has taught you well, you have controlled your fear. now release your anger.. only your hatred can destroy me :) < 1118628169 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I know how big a star wars fan you are, I know you'll appreciate that ;) < 1118628225 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1118628243 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1118628305 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: "BLOCKMAN.LVL is nonexistent or corrupt" < 1118628326 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file is there.. < 1118628372 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not trying to run it from the zip or anything < 1118628407 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. works from the command line < 1118628425 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder where the bug is.. gnome, wine, or ubuntu? < 1118628677 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: somehow I get the feeling the game is abandoned, but if not, the game would benefit from a menu, for restart, quit, and easy access to help < 1118628720 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it was only a version 0.07 < 1118629019 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod*, doesn't change my suggestion any :) < 1118629415 0 :harkeyahh!~zillermae@206-81-148-32.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118632412 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1118632625 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]" < 1118632801 0 :wooby!~wooby@ny-lancastercadent4g1-3a-236.buf.adelphia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118633574 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1118633617 0 :smott_!~pocky@193.77.153.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1118633796 0 :smott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1118635165 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1118636284 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1118636685 0 :calamari!~calamari@dialup-4.240.114.73.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118636955 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1118638515 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"sleep" < 1118640471 0 :graue!~graue@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118640479 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1118640877 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh.. my esoshell hacks for printed backspaces don't seem to be working right < 1118640891 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta give up for now, homework time < 1118646093 0 :tokigun^away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tokigun < 1118649341 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1118649599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1118649600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1118658337 0 :kipple!~kipple@163.80-202-100.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1118661189 0 :Keymaker!~Not@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1118661212 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm. grrhhh. i had some question in mind just second ago < 1118661215 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1118661400 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.. what's difference between random and undefined? < 1118661512 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined can be anything, while random implies a certain distribution of values < 1118661561 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1118661610 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that's how I see it. there are probably people here who can put it more formally < 1118661634 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1118661652 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well, if anyone has any information about aura, tell me < 1118661690 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've looked at the interpreter source. is there any web site? < 1118661710 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find < 1118662437 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say the precise meanings of 'random' and 'undefined' depend on the context in which they are used. In the C specs for example, the term undefined is well-defined. < 1118662441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("behavior, upon use of a nonportable or erroneous program construct, of erroneous data, or of indeterminately valued objects, for which this International Standard imposes no requirements") < 1118663299 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl. < 1118663301 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I've seen this déjà vu before.." < 1118664841 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mornin peeps < 1118667639 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.3/20050414]" < 1118668328 0 :jix!jix@p5489F563.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118668354 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin < 1118668411 0 :sp3tt!~chatzilla@lite-148-133.umenet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118670179 0 :malaprop!~ph@ppp-68-251-59-237.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118676707 0 :Falling!gang@CPE00a0cc7896fe-CM0012250080d4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1118676814 0 :Falling!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1118677577 0 :tokigun!~tokigun@dor204226.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1118679281 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Banned from network" < 1118681175 0 :jix!jix@p5489F563.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118681205 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1118682858 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hullo < 1118683788 0 :harkeyahh!~zillermae@206-81-148-32.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118683823 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ChanServ my babeh < 1118685206 0 :calamari_!~jeffryj@lilly.csoft.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118685212 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1118685224 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi there < 1118685333 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi raven, just sent you a mail :) can't work on it right now tho < 1118685407 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me either, i have a cross compiler to port to C and a load of other programs to write < 1118685471 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some ideas for writing better brainfuck virtual machines that I need to write up < 1118685515 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers the term virtual-machine to interpreter any day < 1118685675 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't "virtual machine" include the idea of sandboxing? < 1118685795 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can do, it depends ultimately on the functionality you are trying to achieve < 1118685836 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The machine isn't virtual if it's stepping all over your real machine, tho. < 1118685895 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMHO any current interpreter that allows a program to wander into arbitary workspace is horrificly broken < 1118685909 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malaprop: would you consider Java a virtual machine, even though it ties in to all sorts of low level stuff? < 1118686062 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1118686066 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops :) < 1118686358 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java the language? No, it's a language. JVM, yes, as a browser applet is sandoboxed. < 1118686457 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*depending on the security settings active at the time. A JVM with appropriate permissions can access the underlying OS < 1118687152 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't think there is a definition of virtual machine that everbody would agree on < 1118687280 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any definitions on Wikipedia that don't include some kind of sandboxing. Where do y'all see it defined without? < 1118687410 0 :graue!~graue@ip68-100-130-21.dc.dc.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118687456 0 :kipple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is sandboxing? brainfuck interpreters isolates the programs from the computer, and does not allow arbitrary memory and file access < 1118687556 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf is isolated because there's no implementation of file IO. It'd be a VM if bf had IO and it was to a fake filesystem only. < 1118687564 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malaprop: google for - define:virtual machine < 1118687660 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{^Raven^}: Every definition it returns includes sandboxing. Heck, one simply says "A machine which is implemented in software." < 1118687894 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Doesn't "virtual machine" include the idea of sandboxing? <--- my answer would be yes < 1118687905 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malaprop: At the lowest level a VM is a bytecode interpreter. A brainfuck interpreter interprets brainfuck bytecode. But I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. < 1118687962 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how a brainfuck interpreter fails to be a machine implemented in software < 1118687978 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't agree to disagree. You're using a term (VM) in place of the proper one (interpreter). < 1118687991 0 :CXI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well on some level everything's just a virtual turing machine < 1118687993 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: It doesn't include virtual disks, screens, anything. < 1118688033 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machines don't need to have those things to be machines < 1118688042 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to think that "it's turing complete" is the computer science equivalent of solipsism. < 1118688093 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if we're going to go into boring useless theoretical concerns, nothing is a turing machine because they're finite. < 1118688121 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the things we have, that is. < 1118688411 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll reconnect < 1118688416 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.3/20050414]" < 1118688436 0 :tokigun!~tokigun@dor204226.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1118688436 0 :graue!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1118688452 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1118688469 0 :tokigun!~tokigun@dor204226.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1118688478 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back. < 1118688577 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tokigun < 1118688596 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ;) < 1118690266 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1118691254 0 :Keymaker!~a@wire74.adsl.netsonic.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1118691268 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1118691382 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1118691385 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1118691419 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1118691734 0 :smott_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :smott < 1118693110 0 :harkeyahh!~zillermae@206-81-148-32.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118693129 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup ChanServ < 1118693317 0 :harkeyahh!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1118693625 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck has a virtual teletype < 1118693633 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1118693642 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that? < 1118693645 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re malaprop's assertion < 1118693670 0 :cpressey_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< malaprop> graue: It doesn't include virtual disks, screens, anything. < 1118693683 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1118693699 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malaprop is a sad sad man < 1118693712 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he thinks a language should provide access to a file system < 1118693724 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh yeah :) < 1118694041 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1118694781 0 :harkeyahh!~zillermae@206-81-148-32.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118695033 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say a language should, was pointing out that this one didn't. < 1118695044 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1118695073 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It starts simple: first programmers want access to files. Then before you know it they'll want OpenGL. < 1118695085 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1118695102 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's BFSDL? < 1118695192 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's BFSDL? < 1118695206 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm familiar with Python's BDFL... < 1118695246 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing :) it was a joke, SDL libraries for brainfuck :) < 1118695258 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, heh < 1118695326 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or bfPVM. < 1118695625 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keymaker: SDL for Brainfuck? sounds good :) < 1118695706 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could see if you can port SWIG. < 1118695735 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is EsoAPI and Easel in development as part of he PESOIX specification for esolangs. < 1118695787 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EsoAPI allows low level disk access (when running as the main OS) and Easel allows file IO and more < 1118696064 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1118696068 0 :jix!jix@p5489F563.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1118696383 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1118696630 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. and to note: i am not going to do anything :) < 1118696823 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. someone search "simpsons" with google.. what add it gives you? < 1118696953 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A whole lot of pages about the TV show. < 1118696974 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean advertise < 1118696992 0 :malaprop!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got me, blocked. < 1118697000 0 :{^Raven^}!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ebay and a warez site < 1118697063 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. then the ads aren't same for us < 1118697174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SEX XXX PORN LIVE SHOWS" was the ad I got. < 1118697226 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well me too.. :} < 1118698826 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1118698834 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these simpsons quotes are so funny :D < 1118699009 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My Homer is not a communist! He may be a pig, a liar, a communist but he is not a porn star!" -- grandpa < 1118699303 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have been shot eight times this year, and as a result, I almost missed work." -- apu < 1118699468 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Statue of Liberty? Where are we?!" -- milhouse < 1118699790 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"McBain to base! Under attack by Commie-Nazis!" < 1118700087 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, i'm off to watch some simpsons. then probably go night photographing. so, see you tomorrow :) < 1118700097 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1118700948 0 :tokigun!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tokigun^away < 1118701722 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Banned from network" < 1118704076 0 :GregorR!~GregorR@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric