00:00:23 this means my interpreter is broken 00:06:09 hm, that's right, i see the bug now 00:08:35 interesting, my interpreter is completely broken 00:11:34 phew 00:12:14 the interpreter was completely broken, yet the brokenness didn't affect the funcitonality of the smallfuck stuff 00:12:26 i.e. it still works :) 00:13:43 that's an interesting definition of "completely broken" 00:14:56 it was broken for all cases when a swap instruction referenced itself 00:15:03 which apparently the smallfuck stuff never does 00:16:56 and i guess other than smallfuck stuff, there aren't very many smetana programs :( 00:19:09 i think repeatingly running a smetana program might lead to interesting results 00:22:11 simplest case, an on-off switch: 00:22:20 Step 1. Swap step 3 with step 4. 00:22:27 Step 2. Go to step 42 00:22:40 Step 4. (on) 00:22:45 Step 3. (off) 00:22:55 (swap step 3 with step 4 before reading) 00:39:31 * lament performs an act of abominable herecy: adds a print instruction to SMETANA! 00:39:41 heresy 00:40:26 Step 1. Print "Hello world!". 01:20:00 -!- harkeyahh has left (?). 01:22:16 hm 01:22:35 looks like 99 bottles of beer would take more code than there's text in it :( 01:22:42 i.e. the cheapest version is to just use print statements 01:34:15 ha 01:34:29 well, it wouldn't be the first, I think 01:40:14 gotta go. bye 01:40:18 -!- kipple has left (?). 02:11:59 Step 1. Swap step 2 with step 4. 02:12:02 Step 2. Swap step 5 with step 6. 02:12:03 Step 3. Go to step 5. 02:12:03 Step 4. Swap step 5 with step 7. 02:12:03 Step 5. Print "C". 02:12:03 Step 6. Print "B". 02:12:05 Step 7. Print "A". 02:12:08 Step 8. Print "\n". 02:12:10 Step 9. Go to step 1. 02:16:26 could be shortened by a step, of course. 04:30:03 -!- malaprop has quit ("sleep"). 05:34:46 -!- comet_11 has joined. 05:35:18 -!- CXI has quit (Nick collision from services.). 05:35:20 -!- comet_11 has changed nick to CXI. 05:38:04 I improved my libc scrabble game :) 05:38:07 Now it has bonuses :) 06:12:49 -!- GregorR has quit ("Leaving"). 06:14:11 -!- GregorR has joined. 07:22:52 -!- tokigun^away has changed nick to tokigun. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:25:37 -!- sp3tt has joined. 08:29:05 -!- sp3tt has quit (Client Quit). 08:30:02 -!- sp3tt has joined. 08:30:46 -!- sp3tt has left (?). 08:33:00 -!- sp3tt has joined. 08:33:07 -!- sp3tt has left (?). 08:38:49 -!- sp3tt has joined. 08:40:30 -!- sp3tt has quit ("Leaving"). 08:41:04 -!- sp3tt has joined. 08:51:13 -!- tokigun has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.3/20050414]"). 09:47:25 -!- kipple has joined. 10:04:39 -!- tokigun has joined. 10:29:01 lament: lol @ http://z3.ca/~lament/pictures/flow.gif - Hofstadter would probably enjoy it very much 10:29:58 re Urban Müller's old homepage: http://web.archive.org/web/20040903174220/http://ftp.wustl.edu/~umueller/ 10:30:31 re SMETANA print instruction: now the next challenge is 99bob :) 10:33:10 I think that Müller is now working for a company offering a search engine 10:34:31 BTW, according to his homepage Müller spends (spent?) "too much time on IRC" (ircnet) 10:39:25 he's probably one of these: http://tel.search.ch/result.de.html?all=urban+mueller 12:53:05 -!- sp3tt has quit ("BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it."). 13:21:20 -!- CXI has quit ("If you're reading this, it's probably x-chat's fault."). 13:38:01 -!- CXI has joined. 13:44:43 -!- jix has joined. 14:08:51 <{^Raven^}> pgimeno: Urban is number 14 on that list 14:09:23 thanks {^Raven^} 14:12:02 So we're stalking him now? 14:12:32 <{^Raven^}> no, just using publicly available information put online bu Urban himself 15:11:40 I'm sure he put his phone number online so that people could call him and ask things like "so, dude, what should a cell contain after reading EOF?" ;) 15:12:34 -!- malaprop has joined. 15:39:12 <{^Raven^}> kipple: questions like that are answered by reading the original/using the original compiler 15:39:21 <{^Raven^}> it should all be self evident 15:39:46 <{^Raven^}> *the souce code of 15:43:07 -!- Keymaker has joined. 15:43:42 *sighhhhh* 15:53:44 hey, cool 15:53:52 * Keymaker phones müller 15:53:56 -!- jix has left (?). 15:54:00 ok, not really :p 15:54:01 -!- jix has joined. 15:55:36 hm. müller doesn't mention brainfuck on his site.. how that can be possible?! 15:56:15 he has interesting hobbies, though 16:03:27 -!- louis_ has joined. 16:05:58 Keymaker: I don't think he really cares much about it 16:06:25 yeah 16:06:28 :( 16:06:53 must go eat. 16:09:30 Raven: I don't have an Amiga, so I can't use it, and I don't read assembler 16:10:06 the interpreter says -1 though, and that's what I'm sticking with, but I'm not 100% sure the compiler does the same 16:30:21 -!- louis_ has left (?). 16:46:36 Maybe - juuuuust MAYBE (read: certainly) - Urban just doesn't want to go into a job interview and have the interviewer say "Oh ... yeah ... you're the guy who wrote Brainfuck ..." 16:46:51 I mean, esoteric programming is fun and all, but we should respect his right to live it down. 16:47:10 agreed 16:47:30 anyway, I'm categorizing NULL as a Non-textual language. any objections? 16:49:32 Makes sense to me. 16:50:09 so now Piet doesn't need to feel so alone anymore :) 16:58:07 kipple: I agree to you. 17:01:34 hmm 17:01:48 can I add my own Hello, world program in Whirl page? 17:01:55 omg 17:02:00 Whirl -> NULL 17:10:49 :) 17:10:55 go ahead, i'd say 17:10:57 ;) 17:11:30 hmm 17:15:51 rgh. i can do nothing 17:16:41 and it's annoyingly 25 celsius hot here¨ 17:16:45 i hate summer 17:17:35 18°C here 17:17:48 ah.. 17:17:52 but 17-26 is ok for me 17:17:57 d'oh 17:18:10 -!- tokigun has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:18:27 i'd rather take -17 - -26 :) 17:18:34 brr 17:18:55 too bad the previous winters have been so warm 17:18:57 at least i think so 17:19:18 a few weeks ago we had 35° 17:19:40 thats really annoying 17:19:47 arrrgh 17:19:53 where are you, btw? 17:20:02 Bremen, Germany 17:20:07 wow 17:20:14 i didn't know there's so warm in germany 17:20:22 it isn't always so warm 17:20:26 yeah 17:20:33 but still really warm, that day 17:20:50 it was just for 2 days.. the weeks before and the weeks after that days were 9-15°C 17:21:01 ok 17:21:30 but last week i was in france 17:21:40 ok 17:21:43 it was hot.... 17:21:47 too hot for me 17:21:53 :) 17:22:04 did you see that eiffel tower? 17:22:32 no i wasn't in Paris 17:22:37 ok 17:22:54 well, i haven't seen it 17:23:04 haven't visited france :( 17:23:08 i was at the Cote d'Azur (near Monaco or was it already Monaco?) 17:23:16 no idea 17:27:29 should i add Unnecessary to esowiki? :) 17:28:37 why? 17:29:11 for fun 17:29:19 to joke languages 17:30:16 does HQ9+ ignore any non HQ9+ characters ? 17:30:25 dunno 17:30:49 because if it does i have a Q less quine: Hello, world! 17:32:03 hey, you're right 17:32:09 never thought about that 17:32:10 :) 17:33:40 it doesn't... print_string "Unknown command: "; print_char c; 17:34:11 grh :( 17:34:41 otherwise it would've been neat new quine for that language 17:35:35 or well, it isn't officially said anywhere.. i think 17:35:44 that's just unofficial interpreter 17:35:49 ;) 17:35:55 no its the reference implementation 17:36:39 yes, one the site, but can't find anywhere the fact 17:36:56 "Those that I've managed to find are listed below." 17:37:17 oh 17:37:49 that doesn't clearly mean it's official. the author should've made more clear whether the language reports other characters as error or ignores them 17:38:17 anyways, you could e-mail the author :) 17:50:33 * Keymaker goes to play commander keen 5 18:26:09 rgh 18:26:17 bye 18:26:24 and thanks for all the fish 18:26:28 -!- Keymaker has quit ("I've seen this déjà vu before.."). 18:43:40 * {^Raven^} ponders 19:19:42 * GregorR ponders what {^Raven^} is pondering 19:31:46 -!- e has joined. 19:32:00 -!- e has quit (Client Quit). 19:47:17 and again the SEX instruction (COSMAC 1802 cpu) 19:53:32 LOL 19:53:49 Bow chicka bow wow. 19:54:04 I'm under the distinct impression that Berlios registration is borked :(* 19:56:07 oh, my Choon submission was accepted 19:56:32 i'm going to write 99 bob for the ELF II computer 19:56:36 Hmm, never mind ... apparently fourth time's a charm XD 19:56:42 but first i need an assembler for that cpu 20:04:32 * {^Raven^} hates writing GUI apps for Windows but is forced to today 20:06:49 * {^Raven^} explodes 20:09:52 I use FLTK. 20:09:59 Just makes the whole portability thing muuuuch easier. 20:10:10 And it's small enough to reasonably compile statically into the binary. 20:14:04 <{^Raven^}> The entire program is 41 lines of code, but need to add a few hundred extra for the IF. Grrr... 20:25:12 -!- tokigun has joined. 20:44:34 <{^Raven^}> I'll just make it a CLI tool for DOS and let the user deal with it 21:49:57 c:\app\addcust.exe /name="John Doe" /address="666th street, Moon" /phone="(+12)3456789" 21:50:20 Customer "John Doe" added. Use brwscust.exe to list data. 21:52:19 (forgot the C:\> prompt, sorry) 21:55:36 I'm designing 99 Bottles of Beer in Whirl.... yeah so difficult. 22:01:32 whirl is a PITA to code in (though you can compress the sources pretty well, like 8:1 at worst) 22:01:54 PITA? 22:02:12 pain in the arse 22:02:23 ah... 22:02:31 i see. 22:03:28 -!- jix has quit ("Banned from network"). 22:05:51 -!- calamari has joined. 22:07:09 speaking of the moon: http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/04jan/uf006348.gif 22:07:45 hi calamari 22:09:33 hi pgimeno 22:12:44 <{^Raven^}> pgimeno: I used to be majorly "into" writing GUI software, these day I write portable, multi-platform CLI stuff wherever possible 22:25:40 hmm 22:26:04 http://leporidae.tokigun.net/.service/99bob.txt psuedo code of 99 bob... 22:26:43 though i should explain this meta-language. :p 22:33:03 -!- Keymaker has joined. 22:35:13 that vaguely reminds me of my planning of the "cat" program in Malbolge 22:35:18 tokigun: yeah, that's gonna be a good challenge. good luck. 22:35:19 hi Keymaker 22:35:21 hi 22:35:47 Keymaker: hello. / thanks :) 22:35:56 :) 22:36:29 the jumping is hard 22:37:11 (never tried, but at least that i got from the language specification..) 22:37:22 (or well, there doesn't read that, but i thought it is hard) 22:37:28 yes... i have many issues and i'm finding solutions of them. 22:37:41 Keymaker: I downloaded your sample Unnecessary source and works perfectly. Do you have more samples I can download to get a feeling of how it works? 22:38:06 some of them have been solved (perhaps) but sometimes another problem has been appeared :( 22:38:32 :( 22:38:37 Keymaker: How about Unnecessary interpreter for web? 22:38:40 pgimeno: try hello.unn 22:39:00 oh! trying now 22:39:05 heh. that could be fun :) 22:39:27 i could make one in php 22:40:37 by the way, anyone seen hitchcock's the birds? 22:40:43 i just saw it before came here 22:40:47 really good :) 22:40:54 now i'm afraid of birds, though 22:41:33 tweet 22:41:50 aaaargh 22:41:53 nice, http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/stuff/hello.unn also compiles and runs, though it doesn't print "Hello, world". I'll activate debugging to see what's wrong. 22:42:08 :D take your time 22:42:24 6:43 am KST... i get to sleep ;) 22:42:30 -!- tokigun has changed nick to tokigun^away. 22:42:30 :) hehe ok 22:43:04 good nite tokigun^away 22:43:19 is most of europe gmt? 22:43:27 dunno 22:44:00 never heard of kst :) 22:58:28 most of europe is CET = GMT+1/2 (currently 2 because of DST) 22:58:46 (with a relaxed concept of "most") 23:04:06 http://www.timeanddate.com/library/abbreviations/timezones/eu/cet.html 23:04:38 <{^Raven^}> does anyone know of some good references for cross-compiling brainfuck into something more efficient? 23:04:44 nope 23:04:58 Raven: there's that bf cpu where it can run native ;) 23:06:29 bbl.. food 23:06:34 :) 23:06:36 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 23:08:30 There are a bunch of BF compilers that compile BF into C. 23:08:54 too many 23:09:03 And a few of those combine things like >>> into one += 3 23:09:24 and mostly they are written in c 23:10:05 btw, here's unnecessary interpreter for web use: 23:10:05 http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/stuff/unnecessary.php?program=hello.unn&debug=on 23:10:28 <{^Raven^}> i've got a brainfuck optimisation engine that I'm working on that spits out code in whatever language you fancy 23:10:45 well, what if i fancy brainfuck? :) 23:10:53 <{^Raven^}> erm... 23:10:59 <{^Raven^}> it outputs brainfuck too 23:10:59 or well, thue then :) 23:11:48 <{^Raven^}> you'd have to write a set of rules to decompile the internal code to whichever language 23:12:09 :) 23:12:56 anyways, nice project 23:13:05 <{^Raven^}> i'd like to get together some more information than the optimisations that I already have 23:13:17 <{^Raven^}> i;'m sure there's stuff i've not thought about 23:22:18 <{^Raven^}> for an extreme case it reduces my Lost Kingdom from 2.1 million raw brainfuck instructions down to 147,000 instructions 23:23:50 <{^Raven^}> and that could be improved further 23:24:13 My befunge compiler does some optimizations too, so I guess it could be used for compiling brainf*ck (by translating first to befunge). I should just clean it up and write a code-generating backend, currently it can only spit out simple C code. 23:24:38 that's pretty good, raven 23:24:42 <{^Raven^}> fizzie: do you have a link? 23:27:00 I only have some generated output in the interweb ( http://gehennom.org/~fis/utm.html => http://gehennom.org/~fis/out.c.txt ), not the compiler sources. Oh, and http://gehennom.org/~fis/re.bf.txt -> http://gehennom.org/~fis/re.bef.txt for the "oh gods that's horrible" brainf*ck->befunge translation. 23:27:17 I'm not quite sure what re.bf did. Probably something related to regular expressions. 23:30:43 <{^Raven^}> fizzie: is there the C output of re.bef 23:30:53 <{^Raven^}> looks pretty good 23:32:15 Not really, since g/p don't work in the C-code-creation-backend. That could be easily fixed, though, since the 'p's in that translated-brainf*ck code don't do any self-modification. I think there were some known bugs in the compiler still, though. 23:33:53 Oh well. This part of Europe is EET (GMT+3 at the moment, with the DST) so it's 01:34am, and a ~early morning tomorrow, so -> sleeps now. Night. 23:34:05 <{^Raven^}> goodnight 23:40:02 -!- calamari has joined. 23:40:07 re's 23:43:55 nite 23:44:18 (thanks heaven i'm on summer vacation (and have no summer job either ;))) 23:45:01 slacker! 23:52:29 :) 23:52:42 well, i tried, but nobody hired me! 23:53:10 well, doesn't matter. i get to stay awake late 23:53:17 though, can't get money 23:53:58 lots of free time to come up with a new language 23:54:07 yeah 23:54:24 too bad i'm reading to final exams 23:54:28 or dunno what those are called 23:54:38 fizzie could probably translate but he went away 23:55:26 I'm curious what the sentence looks like natively 23:56:48 which one :D 23:57:14 the one you couldn't translate 23:57:48 ah. i'm talking about the big exams you need to get trough to get out from high school, or whatever would be the translation 23:57:58 school systems are annoyingly so different in different places 23:58:27 anyways, i could probably get through it without reading, but i'm hoping/going to get good grades 23:58:50 are high school exams common? I didn't have to take an exam to graduate.. but I know they started testing a few years ago 23:59:15 well, here there has been these exams/'writings' for years 23:59:27 essay? 23:59:27 probably 50 years or more, at least 23:59:40 ? 23:59:53 oh, just wondering if that was the word you meant 23:59:57 ah