01:37:41 I don't think so, Keymaker, but you can always try how the reference interpreter works. 02:10:01 i'm writing 99 bottles in lazy-k 03:36:08 -!- jix has quit ("Banned from network"). 03:38:41 -!- calamari has joined. 03:38:43 hi 03:39:30 I just noticed that the latest wiki dump I downloaded was smaller than the last dump... is that logical? 04:15:18 bbl 04:15:19 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 04:37:54 -!- mickoko has joined. 04:38:36 -!- mickoko has left (?). 06:47:14 -!- calamari has joined. 06:57:39 hi 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:14:19 -!- BigZaphod has joined. 08:23:31 hi zaphod 08:27:12 hey 08:33:26 This is my first time here. :) 08:34:42 welcome 08:34:55 did you find us from the wiki? :) 08:37:50 Yes. Actually, in a rather round-about way. I was googling one of my own languages Whirl. 08:37:55 Found references to here. :) 08:38:23 hehe 09:45:05 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 09:52:49 <{^Raven^}> hi 10:45:49 -!- jix has joined. 11:00:25 -!- Keymaker has joined. 11:01:04 hmm 11:01:44 bigzaphod.. whirl inventor? 11:03:23 -!- tokigun has joined. 11:04:22 tokigun! 11:04:32 i've a question 11:04:45 hello 11:04:51 hi 11:05:10 hmm 11:05:22 eh... what is your question? 11:05:28 oh 11:05:33 sorry :) wait a bit 11:05:38 ;) 11:05:56 yesterday i was asking here that do whirl programs require that terminate instruction 11:06:02 but i guess they don't 11:06:17 yes terminate instruction is not required 11:06:27 but i added it for complete program 11:06:32 yeah 11:06:40 in case of beer song ;) 11:06:49 yeah 11:06:52 anyways; 11:06:53 1100 11:06:53 00 11:06:53 111100 11:06:59 why doesn't that program work? 11:07:03 it should print 0 11:07:20 hmm 11:07:28 1100 -- op::one 11:07:31 00 -- math::noop 11:07:40 111100 -- op::padd 11:08:08 if you want to print 0 use op::intio instruction instead. 11:08:12 hmm.. there must be then something wrong the way i thought 11:08:20 i thought it did: 11:08:55 11 move to One 00 execute it, change ring 11:09:01 yes 11:09:03 00 NOP, change ring 11:09:16 1111 move to IntIO 11:09:19 hmm 11:09:21 00 execute it 11:09:40 Keymaker: you have to use 0111100 instead of 111100 11:09:48 nope 11:10:01 ah 11:10:07 sorry, i read "have you used" 11:10:09 :) 11:10:11 ;) 11:10:30 but 11:10:43 doesn't the direction of ring stay when you switch it? 11:10:47 when 111100 is executed, it selects 6th (not -2th == 10th) instruction 11:10:59 hmm 11:11:13 0 changes the direction of ring 11:11:22 but i thought the first line "1100" 11:11:28 changes it to anticlockwise 11:11:36 00 changes the direction of ring twice, executes the selected instruction, and so on.. 11:11:43 ah 11:11:54 no. it changes the direction "twice". 11:12:02 so the direction changes every time there is 0 11:12:03 ah 11:12:05 yes ;) 11:12:54 ah this clears it. i thought the direction doesn't change if the zero executes instruction :) 11:12:58 well, now i can go and fix this 11:13:06 hehe 11:13:36 i've returned home... good :) 11:13:42 :) 11:13:53 now the program works 11:13:56 it prints 0 11:13:58 nice 11:13:59 :D 11:14:18 i'll make it print unix new-line as well 11:14:29 btw, i'm using your c interpreter. it's great 11:18:19 haha... 11:18:34 it doesn't have debugger, though ;) 11:18:51 yeah, something option showing memory states would be useful 11:19:44 question; 11:20:07 if there is a jump where the instruction pointer is moved.. what if it goes outside the program? 11:20:12 should the program end? 11:20:31 as well, does whirl support negative numbers? that jump to left and right can be done? 11:22:45 hmm 11:22:55 first whirl supports negative numbers 11:23:07 ok 11:23:08 so you can move memory pointer left or right 11:23:14 ok 11:23:23 but what about the jump outside the program? 11:23:27 hmm 11:24:19 my interpreter can handle it.. but maybe it is user-defineded. 11:24:23 s/eded/ed/ 11:25:02 hmm 11:25:11 the author *cough bigzaphod* should clear some things on the web site.. 11:25:17 :) 11:25:19 :) 11:25:41 wait a moment 11:26:37 in this case, his interpreter terminates immediately. 11:26:46 ok 11:26:51 terminates program 11:26:54 ok 11:27:12 and my interpreter terminates program when memory pointer > program upper bound, 11:27:30 and return to first instruction when memory pointer < program lower bound (that is origin) 11:27:48 ok 11:28:55 -!- tokigun has changed nick to tokigun^away. 11:36:11 i can't understand english. does "Sets value to memval." mean that 'value' gets the value of 'memval'? 11:46:37 tokigun: bigzaphod is here 12:01:50 -!- tokigun^away has changed nick to tokigun. 12:01:53 back 12:01:56 puzzlet: oh. 12:11:51 -!- Keymaker has left (?). 12:30:23 -!- J|x has joined. 12:31:03 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 12:31:05 -!- J|x has changed nick to jix. 12:31:47 my 99bob in lazy k is done 12:32:41 it's about the size of the whirl 99bob .. and has the same obfuscation amount 12:59:27 * {^Raven^} ponders orthogonal 8-bit RISC processor design and layout of 16-bit opcodes 13:37:18 -!- hashendgame has joined. 15:20:36 * {^Raven^} finished pondering orthoganal processor design 15:27:50 -!- Kmkr has joined. 15:28:50 'ello 15:28:56 <{^Raven^}> hi there 15:28:57 couldn't use name Keymaker 15:29:08 this thing said it was token 15:29:32 jix: sounds really cool 15:29:38 can't wait to see the program 15:30:04 <{^Raven^}> kmkr: have you done /whois keymaker 15:30:09 no 15:30:40 hmm, seems to be some french dude 15:31:03 <{^Raven^}> i recommend that you register Keymaker at the next opportunity 15:31:20 he has probably registered it already 15:31:56 as well, i didn't feel like trying to register it, since that system was strange. i couldn't use it 15:42:08 <{^Raven^}> i'v had enough of enough brainfuck for the moment, gonna take a break 15:44:40 :) 15:53:35 -!- hashendgame has quit ("Leaving"). 15:53:40 hmm 15:53:56 can one send another version for some language to that 99 bottles of beer list? 15:54:09 if i remember correct i've seen some language have several versions 15:54:32 perl for example 17:04:33 Hey tokigun. Nice to finally "meet" the world's best whirl programmer. :) 17:22:46 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:07:41 Kmkr: http://rafb.net/paste/results/hExqvL26.html 18:08:23 nice :) can't understand anything 18:08:50 the first part is the scheme-like code.. the 2nd part is se lazy k code 18:09:16 and i think you can't understand anything in the whirl 99bob 18:12:40 me? in whirl it's possible but takes time :) 18:13:25 well, here is the boring 99bob in c i made: 18:13:26 #include /* written by Keymaker :) */ 18:13:26 int main(){int a[9]={0,1,2,0,2,3,0,1,2},b=99,c;while(b>0){for(c=0;c<9;c++){ 18:13:26 if(a[c]==0){if(b==0){printf("no more");}else{printf("%i",b);}printf(" bottle"); 18:13:26 if(b!=1){printf("s");}printf(" of beer");}if(a[c]==1){printf(" on the wall");} 18:13:26 if(a[c]==2){if(c==2){printf(", ");}else{printf(".\n");}}if(a[c]==3){ 18:13:27 printf("Take one down and pass it around, ");b--;}}printf("\n");}} 18:14:03 i don't submit it to 99-bottles-of-beer, since i just noticed ther reads they don't want anymore c examples of the program 18:15:01 Kmkr: if you take a look at the first part (the non-compiled version) it's even easier to understand as the whirl code 18:15:59 yes 18:24:47 i think it's fun writing BASIC => Esolang converters 18:24:58 never tried :) 18:25:15 i didn't but i think it's fun 18:25:29 extra fun when you write the converter in the esolang 18:26:32 hehe 18:27:23 i think i'll write a new version of my beer.b 18:28:01 there's 1003 ways to get it shorter 18:30:31 must go. 18:30:33 -!- Kmkr has left (?). 20:00:30 3code 99 bottles: http://www.bigzaphod.org/3code/bigzaphod-99bottles.txt 20:00:36 not terribly impressive, but it was fun. 21:42:36 -!- calamari has joined. 21:42:39 hi 21:45:02 jix: bitdebug 1.00 is ready: http://kidsquid.com/programs/bf/bf.html 21:45:27 let me know which bugs you find :) 21:48:53 <{^Raven^}> hi calamari 21:53:46 hi raven 21:53:53 working on the bf port of that debugger :) 21:54:22 <{^Raven^}> working on a BF related project myself 21:54:25 if there's anything about the bit one that needs fixing, let me know so I can put it in the bf version 22:12:30 wow, that was easier than I thought 22:13:15 Only thing left is allow clicking memory to change it.. was easier with bits because it could just flip.. will need a dialog this time, though :) 22:15:54 -!- BigZaphod has quit. 22:15:55 and its way slow because of all the graphics.. not great for running programs.. just debugging them 22:31:58 raven: check it out, http://kidsquid.com/programs/bf/bf.html 22:32:35 <{^Raven^}> will do, am hitting BFBASIC bugs right now 22:32:38 I should put my array code in and test it 22:32:41 cool 22:33:23 <{^Raven^}> array(var)=array(var2)+var3 (or -var3) does not work 22:37:52 <{^Raven^}> calamari: default file mask for file>open could be *.b;*.bf 22:38:23 <{^Raven^}> calamari: input box does not seem to accept input in range 00-FF 22:40:01 really? it should accept any decimal 22:40:31 unless you mean the input tab? 22:40:43 <{^Raven^}> the input tab 22:40:54 <{^Raven^}> seems limited to printable characters 22:42:38 hmm yeah.. probably is, unless it's pasted in 22:42:55 <{^Raven^}> even when pasted. 22:43:57 <{^Raven^}> test code starts [.] debugger cannot get past that. skipped to [-] and it gets stuck there too even though cell is set to 0 22:44:48 -!- jix has quit ("Banned from network"). 22:45:15 I don't follow you on that last bug report 22:45:33 if you're changing the program in the middle of a run, that could cause problems 22:45:44 <{^Raven^}> BF debugger cannot leave a loop 22:46:34 that'd be weird, because I was able to run the standard hellow world type stuff, the triangle, etc 22:47:06 <{^Raven^}> is file>open supposed to load the code into the program tab? it is not doing that here 22:47:15 yeah, it's supposed to 22:47:15 -!- heatsink has joined. 22:47:43 so much for write once run anywhere :/ 22:48:02 you didn't write it in java, DID YOU? 22:48:08 ;p 22:48:12 hehe 22:48:26 <{^Raven^}> ok, gonna stop using the evil OS now 22:48:57 oh, were you trying it in windows? 22:49:09 <{^Raven^}> do you know how I can start your program from a unix shell (to load it on X-Windows) 22:49:12 <{^Raven^}> I was 22:49:21 java -jar filename.jar 22:50:04 <{^Raven^}> hmmm, gotta be doing it wrong, that command gives me a pile of exception errors 22:50:13 nice 22:50:18 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:50:37 nice, more programs to try.. 22:50:41 * calamari tries it .. works here.. I'm runnign 1.5 tho 22:51:30 -!- cmeme has joined. 22:51:46 <{^Raven^}> using gij 3.2.3 here 22:51:49 -!- cmeme has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:52:31 -!- cmeme has joined. 22:53:13 {^Raven^}: great. i'm using jamvm 1.3.0 with gnu classpath cvs head 22:53:33 * {^Raven^} has never been any good at getting 'real' java installed on his server and uses the default GNU version instead 22:55:36 * calamari just downloaded it from sun.. didn't even use those fancy installer script thingys 22:55:41 {^Raven^}: very nice, let me know if you see any bugs so i can test them with the latest version 22:57:16 <{^Raven^}> lindi: bfdebug-100 won't even run on my gij...and it dosn't work as expected using sun java on Windows 22:57:23 seems i've reported 25 bugs during the last 37 days :) 22:57:59 raven: really weird that it doesn't work on windows, since I'm not really doing anything nonstandard this time 22:58:14 {^Raven^}: gij-3.3 is quite old in that respect, a lot has happened to swing after that 22:58:25 calamari: are you sure? ;) 22:58:55 lindi: lol.. I think it's impossible to say for sure 22:58:59 * {^Raven^} goes to download sun java (and hopes it doesn't break anything) 22:59:10 calamari: esoshell had some nice gems, like this one: https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=13254 22:59:26 esoshell was definitely doing some nonstandard stuff 22:59:33 <{^Raven^}> calamari: I've got a really nice BFBASIC program in the making 22:59:40 I was overriding swing methods, etc 23:00:18 raven: cool, basic program, or bfbasic java program? 23:00:50 calamari: anyways, those swing programs are really create testcases for improving gnu classpath 23:00:55 <{^Raven^}> basic program 23:02:33 <{^Raven^}> i am finding more bugs in BFBASIC but nothing I have been able to solve 23:02:36 adventure game, or something new? spill it ;) 23:02:43 <{^Raven^}> ok... 23:02:44 thanks for fixing on bfbasic 23:02:55 be sure to commit to the cvs repos :) 23:03:16 <{^Raven^}> i will do if I ever manage to work out how to fix any bugs 23:03:36 * {^Raven^} doesn't know java 23:03:51 {^Raven^}: what OS are you using btw? 23:03:56 * calamari doesn't know Java either, apparently 23:04:44 <{^Raven^}> lindi-: what for? I am using RISC OS, Linux (Whitebox RHEL3.0) and WinXP Pro interchangably atm 23:05:26 {^Raven^}: fedora core 4 comes with a large collection of java programs compiled with gcj 23:05:39 {^Raven^}: and on debian you could just apt-get install free-java-sdk 23:06:10 <{^Raven^}> lindi-: I need to find an rpm / other installer 23:06:28 hmm, for what? 23:06:42 sun's proprietary stuff? 23:06:48 * {^Raven^} often writes software on RISC OS, compiles it on Unix and runs it on Windows (and any variation thereof) 23:07:26 <{^Raven^}> I need a more recent java+SDK that will just install and work, any suggestions 23:07:27 i wish i knew brainfuck more so i could test this bfdebug better 23:08:17 {^Raven^}: i can recommend jamvm if you want to help out in testing gnu classpath 23:09:21 * calamari should do that 23:09:49 I could never contribute, though.. because I've looked at all kinds of sun code trying to figure out things 23:10:00 you can contribute by testing 23:10:49 <{^Raven^}> calamari: My program is an emulator for an 8-bit RISC CPU 23:10:56 coolness 23:11:10 bet that's slow :P 23:12:25 <{^Raven^}> not really slow, Hello World runs in less than a second 23:13:08 <{^Raven^}> I want to see if a RISC CPU with an orthoganl instruction set can be emulated by brainfuck 23:13:57 calamari: Interpreter.java has _memory.add(Integer.valueOf(0)); but there's no such method valueOf(int) in Integer 23:14:14 lindi: that must be 1.5 23:14:17 there's only valueOf(String s) and valueOf(String s, int radix) 23:14:21 err wait 23:14:37 * calamari checks his java book 23:15:01 I wanted Integer.getInteger 23:15:17 but valueOf is a method 23:15:22 still, i want to sort this out. where is valueOf(int) documented? 23:15:45 one sec, I'll check it out for ya 23:16:15 1.5.. checked the sun source 23:16:28 it's part of all that int wrapper crap 23:16:33 /clear 23:16:39 better not paste it here :) 23:16:46 not gonna paste anything 23:16:56 but is there any public documentation on that one? 23:17:24 is the javadoc from the code considered public? 23:17:49 no, not from the code 23:18:04 but if sun has published it in a book or on their web page, then yes 23:18:12 yeah, let me find it ;) 23:18:51 I have the feeling I know exactly what to search for hehe 23:19:00 ah, found it 23:19:41 http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Integer.html 23:19:54 yeah, that's what i found 23:20:10 i'll write some quick'and'dirty version and check if it works 23:20:56 are you going to handle the caching? 23:21:36 not sure how it should be done, i'll ask on #classpath 23:25:51 hmm actually I needed new Integer(i) to replace it :) 23:26:26 raven: probably explains why it wasn't working in windows :) 23:26:41 wonder if I'm using any other 1.5 code.. wish there was an easy way to find out 23:27:44 i thought there was 23:27:57 some kind of tool that'll tell me? 23:28:06 I'll ask in #java 23:28:27 -!- Kmkr has joined. 23:29:15 hi 23:29:28 sounds like an interesting project raven 23:29:28 <{^Raven^}> kmkr: the french dude(tte) has logged off 23:29:37 ah 23:29:40 -!- Kmkr has changed nick to Keymaker. 23:29:43 <{^Raven^}> :) 23:30:04 <{^Raven^}> Keymaker: it is. I just wanted to see if it was possible and it most definately can be done 23:30:19 yeah, everything can be done with brainfuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 23:30:24 <{^Raven^}> hello world works perfectly 23:30:39 what is that orthagonal or something instruction set? 23:30:47 and what the hello world looks like in that? 23:32:12 <{^Raven^}> the simple version is (in assembler) just MOV r0,#72:OUT r0:MOV r0,#101:OUT r0:etc:RET 23:32:38 ah 23:33:03 <{^Raven^}> each instruction is assembled to a 16-bit word by a seperate program, the object code is loaded and executed by the emulated CPU 23:34:30 <{^Raven^}> it's only 36Kb of brainfuck (compiled BFBASIC) so far 23:34:43 :) 23:34:56 calamari: turns out that there is already valueOf(int) but it's in a separate branch that targets 1.5 23:36:14 <{^Raven^}> keymaker: In computer science, an instruction set is said to be orthogonal if any instruction can use any register in any addressing mode. 23:36:40 ok 23:36:51 calamari: here, http://paste.debian.net/897 23:39:51 interesting.. sun's is shorter, but the gnu one is easier to understand :) 23:42:23 MIN_CACHE and MAX_CACHE are -128 and 127 btw 23:43:18 calamari: < dalibor> a brainfuck debugger! < dalibor> we should ship that instead of jdb in kaffe < Sven_M> lindi-: Oh, well I can see how this is terribly useful. =) 23:43:37 lol 23:53:42 * {^Raven^} has installed sun java 1.5.0, put it in the $PATH before libgcj but libgcj is still being used instead 23:55:21 -!- BigZaphod has joined. 23:55:24 {^Raven^}: redhat has 'java' as a symlink to 'gij'? 23:56:00 <{^Raven^}> yes, but it is later in the path than sun java 23:56:04 <{^Raven^}> *run path 23:58:51 ./java 23:59:05 <{^Raven^}> got it working now 23:59:35 <{^Raven^}> bfdebug is running as you described 23:59:36 I really like the look of 1.5 Swing