00:01:12 <{^Raven^}> yup, it was Windows/sun java1.4.2 that was broken
00:01:38 <calamari> because of the 1.5 method call I was using
00:02:00 <{^Raven^}> can't we blame windows just a little? ;)
00:02:16 <calamari> nah.. I bet it was spewing all sorts of errors to the console
00:02:28 <calamari> but if the console isn't visible.. well :)
00:02:42 <calamari> works fine in windows using 1.5 
00:02:50 <calamari> (just tested via qemu)
00:03:00 <{^Raven^}> that's good to know
00:03:21 <lindi-> segfaults jamvm in some mysterious way
00:03:41 <lindi-> but it only happens after it has looped for a long time in bf code
00:09:52 <{^Raven^}> calamari: very nice program
00:11:03 <{^Raven^}> calamari: what is the cell width in the debugger? are cells supposed to be able to hold -ve numbers?
00:11:37 <Keymaker> what means '-ve'?
00:11:52 <{^Raven^}> negative, and +ve is positive
00:12:03 <Keymaker> ah :)
00:12:26 <Keymaker> i saw that same thing today somewhere else but couldn't realize what it meant.. i see now
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00:13:13 <calamari> raven: thanks :) int sized cells
00:13:25 <calamari> I should provide an 8-bit option, shouldn't I
00:14:03 <calamari> (8, 16, int) 
00:14:08 <{^Raven^}> definately
00:14:29 <calamari> will do.. working on it anyways (to allow *.bf, fixed the 1.5 bug)
00:14:42 <calamari> can you paste non-char text into the input box now?
00:15:29 <{^Raven^}> yes, but I am not sure if it's correct
00:15:52 <calamari> it should be using unicode
00:16:11 <calamari> (that's why ints were convienient)
00:16:25 <{^Raven^}> how about File>LoadInput to load a file into the input tab?
00:18:58 <calamari> do you want to save as well?
00:19:20 <calamari> of course you do :)
00:19:34 <{^Raven^}> it makes sense to be able to
00:25:13 <{^Raven^}> lindi-: hey, this Sun Java is waaaaaa(etc)ay faster than libgcj
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00:35:20 <calamari> brb
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00:41:11 <{^Raven^}> calamari: I have hit a brick wall with the emulator, array bugs that cannot be kludged :((
00:42:21 <calamari> okay
00:42:31 * {^Raven^} wishes he knew java well enough to fix all these
00:42:43 <calamari> I have a few more of those features to add ;)
00:42:58 <calamari> then I'll check out the array code
00:43:34 <{^Raven^}> thx, I really hate to keep bugging you about BFBASIC, esp since you have a life and all
00:44:44 <calamari> haha, I have a life?  
00:46:18 <{^Raven^}> or is it an occupational hazard for all of us programmer types?
01:01:51 <calamari> got the load/save done, now working on bit width
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01:11:17 <tokigun> ㅗ제영ㅐ
01:11:19 <tokigun> oops
01:11:27 <tokigun> anyway hello ;)
01:11:48 <{^Raven^}> hi
01:12:47 <BigZaphod> hey
01:15:25 <tokigun> BigZaphod: hello ;)
01:15:55 <BigZaphod> tokigun: good to "see" you :)
01:16:05 <tokigun> haha...
01:16:08 <tokigun> :)
01:16:32 <BigZaphod> your 99 bottles is #2 on the 99 bottles of beer site.  ;)  good stuff.
01:16:56 <tokigun> thanks.
01:21:05 <tokigun> BigZaphod: i've submitted more 99 bob programs... :)
01:21:16 <tokigun> http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-r4-script-762.html and http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-windows-nt-batch-763.html
01:22:36 <BigZaphod> I saw those in the recently added list on the site.  :)
01:23:23 <BigZaphod> had never heard of R4 before.
01:26:30 <tokigun> r4 is visualization software that provides custom scenes, network interfaces, and so forth.
01:26:58 <tokigun> (usually i used r4 visualization plugin for r4)
01:27:03 <tokigun> oops, for winamp*
01:28:22 <tokigun> i'm thinking about 99 bob program in Piet, Gammaplex, RUBE, Aheui. :)
01:29:11 * {^Raven^} is thinking about a spoon / whirl polyglot (just thinking tho)
01:29:48 <BigZaphod> tokigun: those would be fun to see...
01:30:30 <tokigun> {^Raven^}: whirl polyglot? :)
01:30:48 <tokigun> you mean whirl-c polyglot?
01:31:10 <{^Raven^}> tokigun: i mean a whirl-spoon polyglot
01:31:17 <tokigun> ah...
01:31:40 <tokigun> i see. i didn't see "spoon". :)
01:33:21 <{^Raven^}> i'd guess it would be impossible to do anything meaningful
01:46:32 <graue> write a program that generates a whirl-spoon polyglot for you
01:55:38 <{^Raven^}> g'nite peeps
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05:15:23 <lindi-> {^Raven^}: you compared it to gij? ;) gcj should be bit closer
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06:12:21 <calamari> re's
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08:39:44 <entri> yo
08:46:37 <calamari> hi entri
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08:56:17 <calamari> raven: got the new version done: http://kidsquid.com/programs/bf/bf.html
08:57:02 <calamari> raven: I realized I'm setting EOF = 0, but it'd probably be nice to make than an option (0, max value, unchanged).. too tired to do it now, though
08:58:04 <calamari> you'll notice a blue marker (and magenta when blue and red overlap).. this is the highest memory cell accessed.  Useful for bf golf contests ;)
08:58:19 <calamari> anyhow.. night
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12:30:38 <{^Raven^}> calamari: I'll take a peek
12:30:49 <{^Raven^}> morning to all the peeps
13:29:14 <{^Raven^}> anyone around?
13:30:22 <{^Raven^}> I need some inspiration for the name of a project I'm working on (currently called <insertnamehere>!:)
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13:57:05 <jix> moin
14:03:03 <pgimeno> sometimes what is esoteric is the usage of a language rather than the language itself... http://www.unidex.com/turing/utm.htm
14:08:34 <{^Raven^}> pgimeno: thx, i like that
14:09:16 <pgimeno> np, enjoy
14:15:26 <{^Raven^}> There seems to be a requirement that all existant UTMs/FSMs must have hellow, 99bobb amd rot13 implemented
14:16:02 <{^Raven^}> The holy trinity (sic) of example programs :)
15:35:27 <cpressey> it's ever so comforting to know that your text processing tools are subject to the halting problem
15:54:59 <cpressey> the 'cur' and 'last' links in the wiki history pages don't seem to be working.  they don't take me to diffs, they just take me back to the article page.
15:57:25 <pgimeno> which page, cpressey? it works for me
15:58:30 <cpressey> pgimeno: i was trying on the smallfuck history page
15:58:55 <cpressey> oh sorry
15:58:59 <cpressey> it does work
15:59:18 <cpressey> it just links down to the bottom ('preview') part of the diff, which looks just like the main article
15:59:26 <pgimeno> oh, I see
15:59:26 <cpressey> i had to scroll up to notice the difference
15:59:51 <pgimeno> yup
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16:37:28 <ZeroOne> Keymaker: why is bf-hacks.org down?
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17:22:32 <calamari> hi
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18:18:50 <calamari> hi
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18:26:49 <calamari> blah...
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18:49:14 <jix> wrong key
18:54:44 <calamari> hi jix
18:55:04 <calamari> I put that bit debugger online, dunno if you saw my announcement on that
18:55:23 <calamari> http://kidsquid.com/programs/bf/bf.html
18:55:59 <calamari> I've made some improvements to the bf version that I need to backport to the bit version
18:56:10 <calamari> bbl.. class
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18:56:15 <{^Raven^}> calamari: have had it running a test program for 5 hours and all is well
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21:14:18 <calamari> hi
21:15:33 <{^Raven^}> calamari: I have been running your debugger through a test cycle for the last 8 hours and all is well
21:15:34 <calamari> raven: glad to hear it.. sorry it's taking so long to run a program, though :)
21:16:02 <calamari> maybe there should be a fast run button where it just goes for it without all the updating
21:16:47 <calamari> I haven't had a chance to put my array code on the bench and check it out.. 
21:16:53 <{^Raven^}> maybe one option would run until the next ','
21:17:21 <{^Raven^}> but an occasional window refresh would be good
21:17:40 <calamari> also, I realized my Pass button isn't right.. it stops on ], but it should actually run until the loop is complete
21:18:29 <calamari> so there can be more options :)
21:18:31 <{^Raven^}> Maybe File>SaveInput could be changed to File>SaveOutput as loading input and saving output seems more logical
21:18:45 <calamari> I was looking into making a toolbar for them, but didn't want to get sidetracked
21:19:04 <calamari> do you need to have the output of a program run?
21:19:35 <calamari> I figured that the input is what needed to be saved, for repeated testing, etc
21:19:43 <{^Raven^}> not really and copy/paste is more convenient
21:19:54 <calamari> But, it's easy enough to add a Save Output option, so I will :)
21:19:54 <{^Raven^}> ahh, i see. Yes that does sound betetr
21:20:41 <{^Raven^}> The Java GUI stuff (source code) looks deceptivly simple
21:22:39 <calamari> yeah.. that pretty much sums it up
21:22:52 <calamari> lots of work ent into those lines though, believe me :)
21:27:01 <{^Raven^}> I have been fleshing out my processor design
21:27:25 <calamari> did oyu get past that last bfbasic bug that was stopping you last night?
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21:28:14 <{^Raven^}> no, the bug is too deep in the compiler to workaround :(
21:28:26 <calamari> k
21:31:19 <{^Raven^}> the line is originally array(val1) = array(val1) + array(val2)
21:31:51 <{^Raven^}> but it seems to compile to array(val1) = array(val1)
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21:38:56 <calamari> is that what is printed by the debug output ?
21:39:00 <Kmkr> hello
21:39:04 <calamari> hi kmkr
21:39:12 <Kmkr> hi
21:39:32 <calamari> bbiam.. moving this pterminal to a different computer :)
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21:40:04 <{^Raven^}> hi
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21:40:22 <Kmkr> hi.. /whois tells me that i'm Keymaker
21:40:31 <calamari> haha
21:40:32 <Kmkr> i mean /whois Keymaker
21:40:37 <calamari> you dork :P
21:40:45 <Kmkr> :)
21:41:06 <{^Raven^}> calamari: I have PRINT array(val1) statements around the assignment
21:41:12 <calamari> it'd be nice to be able to use @var's inside the debugger, wouldn't it  :)
21:41:24 <{^Raven^}> you have read my mind
21:41:48 <calamari> I need to make a list of all this stuff otherwise I'm gonna forget 
21:42:20 <{^Raven^}> with BFBASIC compiled to debug output you can see which statement you are in
21:43:13 <{^Raven^}> what you need is the ability to set breakpoints, so you can run a program to the breakpoint
21:44:45 <Kmkr> ZeroOne: when? it must've been something very temporary, i hope. it has worked for me every time i've been there today
21:45:09 <Kmkr> (it's my start page in opera)
21:45:30 <{^Raven^}> compile to debug output, set breakpoint around the code in question, run silently (and quickly) to the breakpoint, and then step through the code at the point of the suspected bug
21:47:03 <calamari> now that'd be cool
21:47:45 <calamari> wonder how I can set a breakpoint.. perhaps just a special character in the code, like #
21:48:09 <calamari> since that's the traditional bf debugging symbol
21:48:40 <calamari> actually, that'd be extremely easy
21:48:56 <{^Raven^}> for @vars, add an option to BFBASIC to output out a @var map at the top of the output
21:49:18 <{^Raven^}> so maybe '@_T0 = 1
21:49:33 <{^Raven^}> '@_T1 = 2
21:50:00 <{^Raven^}> etc, the debugger would read these from the source on program load
21:50:06 <Kmkr> btw, what you're talking about?
21:50:20 <calamari> raven: oic, symbolic debugging.. nice :)
21:50:48 <{^Raven^}> :)
21:50:59 <calamari> that's even easier than what I was thinking of doing, so it's good :)
21:51:40 <calamari> keymaker: working on bfdebug, a java swing debugger I've written recently
21:51:49 <calamari> trying to make it more useful :)
21:51:54 <{^Raven^}> kmkr: were talking about a really nice BF debugger in java calamari wrote
21:53:13 <Kmkr> ok
21:53:24 <Kmkr> that sounds useful
21:53:35 <Kmkr> sometimes i spend hours hunting some bug
21:53:51 <Kmkr> and mostly it's because of one instruction in wrong place
21:53:51 <calamari> keymaker: http://kidsquid.com/programs/bf/bf.html
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21:58:35 * {^Raven^} has spent days tracking down fencepost errors
22:04:32 <calamari> $varName=cellNumber (how's this for the defines)?
22:04:41 <{^Raven^}> calamari: would it be possible to make [-] an optional special case in Interpreter.java so it does setCell(_mp, 0);
22:04:51 <calamari> sure
22:05:11 <{^Raven^}> that define sounds good to me
22:05:34 <calamari> and it'll just be # for the breakpoints, placed by the user
22:06:33 <calamari> I can't remember.. are the @var's produced by bfbasic uppercase ?
22:07:10 <{^Raven^}> yes they are
22:08:22 <calamari> okay, I'll make them case insensitive in the debugger then
22:08:43 <{^Raven^}> how about breakpoints being disabled until the first BF instruction is encountered? It will save false positives if the program has a unix header.
22:09:23 <calamari> would a different breakpoint character be preferred?
22:09:34 -!- graue has joined.
22:09:48 <{^Raven^}> no # is perfect
22:10:26 <calamari> okay... I was just trying to avoid adding that extra state, but it can be done :)
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22:11:15 <{^Raven^}> I'm on a quest to make brainfuck interpreter authors to add that particular usage
22:11:31 <calamari> afk
22:11:42 <{^Raven^}> but since we're dealing with BFBASIC debug output here it's not much of an issue
22:12:39 <{^Raven^}> hi graue
22:13:21 <{^Raven^}> graue: i like your anti-(mp3/ogg)-streaming php script
22:14:02 <jix> anti-(mp3/ogg)-streaming php script??
22:15:42 <{^Raven^}> it encourages users to download mp3s before listening to them instead of just streaming them from the server
22:16:06 <jix> i would add itunes too
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22:17:21 <jix> User-Agent: iTunes/4.8 (Macintosh; N; PPC)
22:17:41 <{^Raven^}> i'm looking for a way to stop storm downloads of music aswell
22:17:56 <jix> storm downloads?
22:18:52 <{^Raven^}> when you have multiple connections to a server each downloading different parts of a file
22:19:27 <jix> ah
22:19:56 <jix> tell apache to disallow downloads by file position
22:20:11 <{^Raven^}> multiply that by 40 or so mp3s and you have no bandwidth for a very long time
22:20:36 <{^Raven^}> I need resume enabled though for people with dodgy# connections
22:20:43 <jix> hmm ok
22:21:32 <jix> in php is it possible to execute some code if the user disconnects?
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22:22:53 <jix> you could use a mysql db with a lock table.. if a user starts a download the script puts the ip into the table if the user is done with the download it removes it
22:23:32 <{^Raven^}> that's basically the plan
22:23:44 <jix> and all ip:s that are older than 24h are removed (if the php script terminates without deleting the entry)
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22:24:29 * jix has to go to bed
22:24:59 <{^Raven^}> jix: good idea and good night :)
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22:48:38 <calamari> bbl
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23:06:01 <BigZaphod> hey
23:06:50 <BigZaphod> I just finished up another silly language for those who might be interested: http://www.bigzaphod.org/taxi/
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23:23:59 <{^Raven^}> BigZaphod: That looks seriously freaky :)
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23:39:08 <BigZaphod> {^Raven^}: thanks.  :)
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