00:56:34 -!- BigZaphod has joined. 01:16:53 <{^Raven^}> any CVS type peeps here? 01:28:24 hum, interesting discussion 01:28:36 (the above) 01:28:47 sorry to be late 01:29:05 I've been thinking about a sensible definition of "useful for computation" 01:29:54 -!- yrz\werk has quit (Client Quit). 01:31:26 -!- malaprop has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:32:38 -!- malaprop has joined. 01:39:58 -!- pgimeno has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 01:52:07 -!- jimbomania has joined. 01:52:37 nice wings raven 01:52:58 anyone write choon? im trying to figure out a way to get a pattern of ascending thirds within a loop 01:54:29 -!- jimbo0000 has joined. 01:54:37 -!- jimbomania has quit (Client Quit). 01:57:38 -!- pgimeno has joined. 01:58:32 whats up pgimeno? 01:58:37 what part of my discussion has been read? 01:58:39 hi jimbo0000 01:58:52 you're the local choonsmith, right? 01:59:00 not much 01:59:30 well i was trying to write a looping construct to print ascending minor thirds 01:59:35 so x+=3 basically 02:00:03 i tried stepping up the notes to get a few iterations of loop - %AB++++++B.||: :|| 02:00:50 inside ive tried =1+ 02:02:12 I've never used the = instruction 02:02:28 my only Choon program was 99bob and all I needed was the correct looping 02:02:40 i thought i might be easily able to just use =-1 to get the last note played, and each time transpose up by that amount 02:03:12 i can manually plot out notes, but thats no fun 02:03:22 hell, even that is non-trivial 02:03:34 to get multiple octave range 02:04:33 I'm sorry, I need to rest, I can't make much sense of that right now in this state 02:04:48 thanks anyway, gnight 02:05:03 nite all 02:10:14 -!- graue_ has joined. 02:10:24 -!- graue has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 02:12:53 -!- graue_ has changed nick to graue. 02:17:37 <{^Raven^}> nite peeps 03:48:40 -!- jimbo0000 has quit. 04:19:35 -!- graue has quit. 04:54:49 -!- pgimeno has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:55:00 -!- pgimeno has joined. 06:22:07 -!- calamari has joined. 06:22:11 hi 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:07:52 -!- jix has joined. 08:08:09 moin 08:21:28 -!- jix has quit ("Banned from network"). 08:28:54 -!- yrz\werk has joined. 09:28:19 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 11:33:03 <{^Raven^}> mornin peeps 12:11:07 -!- puzzlet has quit (Client Quit). 12:37:17 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:59:02 -!- jix has joined. 13:21:16 moin 13:26:29 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 13:26:29 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:14:46 -!- jimbo00000 has quit ("Today is a good day to chat."). 17:24:50 * {^Raven^} twiddles the volume control 17:25:24 * jix pushes command-f1 17:34:56 -!- BigZaphod has quit. 17:50:33 -!- jumpi has joined. 17:56:06 -!- pgimeno has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:08:00 -!- pgimeno has joined. 18:09:50 -!- BigZaphod has joined. 18:17:59 wc 18:29:53 -!- jumpi has quit ("[BX] Time wasted: 5 millenia 5 centuries 1 decades 8 years 0 months"). 18:43:40 -!- cmeme has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:44:28 -!- cmeme has joined. 18:44:46 -!- cmeme has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:45:33 -!- cmeme has joined. 19:17:46 -!- jimbo0000 has joined. 19:18:15 Hey everyone, a lovely day to you all 19:26:34 <{^Raven^}> hi jimbo0000 19:28:24 it's quiet today 19:28:39 <{^Raven^}> oddly so 19:30:37 does anyone in this room own a psp? 19:37:01 * jix doesn't 19:38:00 the homebrew scene is in the process of exploding - i am very excited 19:38:41 i did programming for the game-boy advance 19:41:19 how did you like it? how mature did those libraries eventually get, especially w respect to graphics? 19:42:24 oh it was.. c without stdlib and direct accessing memory-mapped registers 19:42:36 there was a stdlib.. and c++ worked too 19:42:43 and there were some graphic libs 19:42:47 but i never used them 19:43:13 an arm7tdmi 16mhz cpu isn't that fast and the less function calls the more speed 19:44:06 and memcpy is slow.. so i used DMA (there was one thing that was faster than dma using the load/store 4 registers at once asm instruction) 19:44:40 it was std gcc + std binutils + newlib 19:44:53 but with a different link scripts and crt0.s 19:45:13 and some emulators have gdb support + elf loader build in 19:45:30 <{^Raven^}> LDM/STM (as many registers as possible) in a partially unrolled loop would probably be fastest memcpy 19:45:55 <{^Raven^}> (using writeback to remove the need for ADD ctr,ctr,#x 19:46:00 DMA can be faster 19:46:12 what did you use to get executables onto the device? cable? 19:46:30 jimbo0000: flashcard and/or multi-boot cable 19:47:01 first i had to use a windows machine for development & flashing 19:47:06 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:47:23 than i could use mac os x for development (linux build instructions) 19:47:24 -!- CXI has joined. 19:48:00 and later i could use mac os x for flashing (f2a open source flasher + a osx driver for some usb micro controller) 19:50:30 i had a real good time homebrewing on the dreamcast, too bad it was a dead system 19:50:48 but the psp - man its gonna be huge 19:51:30 i would prefer building my own computer (including own cpu (of course (esoteric? ^^))) and programming it 19:52:16 <{^Raven^}> jimbo0000: dreamcast homebrew is still going strong 19:53:04 Raven: i havent been checking that often, it seemed more exciting in what i thought of as its heyday around 2 years ago 19:53:38 jix: do you think you could build a computer out of wooden gates, a river and a series of small water channels? 19:53:50 uh.. no 19:53:56 i couldn't 19:54:11 but.. i could design one.. but not build it 19:54:40 i thought about water-gates a few years ago 19:54:54 really 19:55:02 but i think wood isn't the right material for it 19:55:20 i think i saw a slashdot post on it - yeah, but it would have that really old-world natural look and feel :) 19:56:06 jimbo0000: with wooden marbles and wood.. that would be more "realistic" than wood + water 19:58:22 it would probably perform a lot better - i always thought of the water&wood thing as something to do after I tired of the whole world and became a recluse deep in the wilderness 19:59:22 -!- J|x has joined. 19:59:48 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 19:59:56 -!- J|x has changed nick to jix. 20:00:04 what was my last msg? 20:00:11 ? 20:00:58 <{^Raven^}> jimbo0000: with wooden marbles and wood.. that would be more "realistic" than wood + water 20:01:08 ok 20:01:21 any replies? 20:01:30 <{^Raven^}> it would probably perform a lot better - i always thought of the water&wood thing as something to do after I tired of the whole world and became a recluse deep in the wilderness 20:01:37 <{^Raven^}> that's all 20:01:46 ok thx 20:02:31 * jix has to learn french 20:04:20 * jix hates learning french 20:05:54 * {^Raven^} gave up learning french after leaving school 20:06:16 * jix is going to give up learning french as soon as possible (in one year) 20:15:24 learned 117 french words today 20:15:58 trained every word about 6 times 20:16:20 <{^Raven^}> good luck with it 20:16:23 ok grammar now 20:16:31 french test tomorrow.. 20:16:43 and i hadn't time to learn earlier... 20:17:19 * {^Raven^} has said. "I have been eaten by my dinner..." at least once 20:17:43 lol 20:18:22 we hadn't passive constructs yet 20:19:21 but french is a lot easier than german.. so i'm lucky german is my native language and i don't have to learn it :] 20:19:54 german is not my native language 20:19:59 and i still don't have to learn it :D 20:20:12 lament: yes but you can't speek german i can :p 20:20:33 pffft 20:20:39 who would you speak german with? 20:21:05 lament: my friends... there are whole irc networks full of german users 20:21:18 scary 20:21:26 don't your friends know english? :) 20:21:36 lament: my german friends 20:22:04 and some of them arn't good at english.. 20:22:25 and some of them are really bad 20:22:47 sad 20:24:13 oh and i can read the original documents about Konrad Zuses plan-kalkül 20:24:39 damn you! 20:24:41 the worlds first structured programming language with functions, variables... 20:25:07 and i can write plan-kalkül with my keyboard 20:26:35 but i don't understand the plan-kalkül 20:28:20 that's sad 20:29:03 he starts to talk about plangebäude and plangruppen-bezeichnungen without telling me what the hell plangebäude are? 20:29:30 plangebäude == plan-buildings 20:29:50 plangruppen-bezeichnungen == plan group discriptions 20:31:47 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:32:01 hmm ok maybe i should just read on 20:44:08 -!- CXI has joined. 20:44:40 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:46:13 -!- CXI has joined. 20:47:22 -!- ZeroOne_ has changed nick to ZeroOne. 20:48:53 -!- CXI has changed nick to CXI_hatesxchat. 20:52:42 jimbo0000: maybe i write a wood-water-gate simmualtor 20:54:45 i know how to build: a And gate.. a And gate with one inverted input... a Not(repowering) gate (using an And inverted one input gate and a Power line) a Buffer(repowering) gate (using an And gate and a Power line) a Xor gate (Using 2 And inv. input and a Or gate) and a Or gate 20:57:33 a simulator... what kind of sim? graphical? physical? 20:57:47 <{^Raven^}> jix: every logic gate can be constructed from NAND gates if you want to get primitive 20:58:08 {^Raven^}: but i want to save wood 20:58:42 and Or,And and And with one inverted input are the simplest gates i know (for building them with wood and for water) 21:00:20 save wood, good for the environment. is there a way to save water too? 21:00:45 yes 21:00:57 you only need as much water as you need to fill the whole "circuit" 21:01:19 and if you save wood and space you save water too 21:01:59 so how did you mean a 'simulator'? 21:02:32 you can see the water flowing in the wooden pipes and the wooden gates moving etc... 21:05:41 mmm sounds like it might look nice in 3d 21:05:54 ok added a 2-bit mux (wood saving) 21:06:56 how many degrees of freedom do all these gates have? and whats the topography of the ground and water channels? 21:09:45 hm? 21:10:07 degrees of freedom? 21:10:19 well, what kind of moving parts are the gates comprised of, are they just solid pieces that rotate? 21:10:19 designd a woodsaving RS-Latch 21:10:42 and as for the water, i guess it needs some kind of gradient to flow, maybe a slight hill? 21:10:51 they are pipes and shelves with holes that can move 21:11:40 jimbo0000: i will include druck(don't know the english word) calculations 21:12:22 pressure? 21:13:09 yea, babelfish says pressure 21:13:33 so these pipes will be closed, with pressure driving the mechanism? 21:13:39 fun event: build those wood and water gates in real life on carts with hoses and stuff. then you could do a live-action esolang thing where you code by pushing the carts around and making connections. 21:13:39 yes 21:14:56 <{^Raven^}> maybe start an amish computing group ;) 21:15:04 {^Raven^}: lol 21:15:22 it'd be a great event at an esolangcon. bring swimwear. :) 21:15:59 <{^Raven^}> especially is the patricipants were used to represent bits ;) 21:16:26 stdout could be a large firehose and the screen could be the audience. 21:16:51 but i think the marble approuch is easier to build 21:17:01 <{^Raven^}> of course that would me a long persistance display 21:23:12 /away 21:28:25 BigZaphod: awesome 21:31:39 -!- CXI_hatesxchat has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:32:34 -!- comet_11 has joined. 21:42:22 -!- comet_11 has changed nick to CXII. 21:53:52 -!- CXII has changed nick to CXI. 21:59:03 /back 22:11:22 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:33:47 -!- calamari has joined. 22:33:53 hi 22:39:55 <{^Raven^}> hi calamari ;) 22:41:17 hi raven 22:41:30 I haven't had a chance to look at bfbasic.. working even now 22:41:59 * {^Raven^} goes 'eep'! 22:42:38 yeah.. I do research work at the university, and a paper deadline is approaching quickly 22:43:40 there is one upcoming conference in Scotland, but I dunno if I'll have my name on that paper 22:44:17 <{^Raven^}> sounds potentially very cool, can I ask the subject you are researching? 22:46:38 sure.. we are working on a package installation tool called sotrk. Right now it runs on a research network called PlanetLab, but we are extending it to work on Vservers, bsdjails, etc 22:47:13 Stork shares packages between clients on the machine, reducing disk space usage and possibly memory usage as well 22:47:50 Planet Lab.. I tried to get in on that network once, but since I'm not currentl affiliated with any university.. *sigh* 22:47:52 It also has a keyfile system to allow anyone to contribute packages 22:48:30 I'm not a huge planet lab fan, but hey, I've learned a lot working on this thing :) 22:49:00 calamari: well, never used it, but it looked neat. I was working on a p2p app and that seemed liek a great way to test it. although development has stalled as of late. 22:50:11 zaphod: the problem with planetlab is that it is continuously overloaded.. but yeah, it's cool in certain ways. I think it's neat how you can appear to have root on a machine when you really dont 22:50:49 I think companies can sign up for planetlab, but it costs $ 22:51:28 oops, sotrk -> stork ;) 22:51:44 hehe, anyways back to work for me 22:51:56 <{^Raven^}> have fun calamari 22:51:56 calamari: have a good one 23:18:35 <{^Raven^}> BigZaphod: how long did taxi take to create? That is one twisted language. 23:18:51 About a week. 23:19:21 I've found a few bugs here and there over the last couple days, though. Uploaded a new version (if you're playing with it). 23:22:10 <{^Raven^}> The source code makes for interesting reading, i especially like the error messages 23:22:10 -!- calamari has quit ("bbl"). 23:23:00 :) 23:23:11 I'm working on a bf interpreter written in taxi.. 23:23:19 lots of pain.. 23:33:09 {^Raven^}: have you tried to do anything with it? 23:33:48 <{^Raven^}> have pondered 99 bottles of beer, but as a thought experiment it was not good 23:34:27 * {^Raven^} still gets lost in GTA:VC 23:34:31 I think 99 wouldn't be too bad once you dug in and got used to it. 23:35:02 lol.. yeah, I've developed a rather heightened sense of left and right now. 23:36:00 I have 283 lines of taxi source which manages to read a single line from stdin and break it down into the bf tokens and tests for each symbol correctly.. now I just have to, ya know, make the symbols do stuff. 23:36:11 the looping frightens me, though. 23:36:17 <{^Raven^}> diagonal directions, hills and valleys would be a suggestion for Taxi++ 23:36:48 <{^Raven^}> a BF terp sounds scary, but atm you're probably the only person capable 23:37:56 probably atm, yeah. with whirl it is funny because I can hardly do anything with it even though I made it. tokigun is by far the biggest whirl expert I know of. 23:40:31 this bf interpreter is quite slow.. does no computation yet but it still manages to take several seconds to process a 50 or 60 character input string. that's on my 1.66ghz powerbook. scary. 23:41:38 <{^Raven^}> your taxi interpreter could pre-parse and compile programs into something faster to interpret 23:43:05 no doubt. it half does at the moment. it parses all the commands up front and builds a list with the command code, but the data is kept as strings and everything is looked up while it is running. 23:43:45 plus it does all the math for determining left and right at run time as well, which in theory it wouldn't need to. 23:44:20 <{^Raven^}> you could tokenise the strings to single byte values 23:45:02 <{^Raven^}> and precompute destinations before execution 23:45:26 yeah that would probably help a lot. 23:46:06 <{^Raven^}> even with brainfuck such things can make a huge difference to execution speed 23:47:01 of course if the language was slightly more sane to begin with, that'd help too. ;) 23:48:24 one of these days I want to try to make a compiler for one of my languages using http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu/ or something. never done that before. 23:51:18 ( assuming I'm even understanding LLVM correctly :) ) 23:52:06 <{^Raven^}> that looks like a very interesting tool chain 23:55:17 I read someplace it is quite easy to use for compiling simple languages or something. figured it'd make a perfect tool for a fun esolang someday. 23:55:56 somewhere I ran across a sample that implemented a forth variant compiler using LLVM. 23:56:05 looked pretty cool. 23:56:46 * {^Raven^} will learn some more about llvm 23:57:28 * {^Raven^} needs to create an esolang 23:57:46 hi all 23:57:53 hi yrz\werk. 23:57:55 someone checked out hcbf? 23:57:59 <{^Raven^}> hullo 23:58:17 i didn't post the interpreter yet 23:58:31 hypercubes hurt my brain as I always try to visualize them. 23:58:33 but i don't know *WHERE* to host the tar.gz 23:58:50 BigZaphod: no way to visualize. 23:59:10 yrz\werk: my brain refuses to listen to me when I say such things. 23:59:14 just *abstract* 23:59:37 BigZaphod: will help you if i change it to be 5-n ? 23:59:49 oops 23:59:52 5d