00:04:08 -!- BigZaphod has joined. 00:09:06 -!- jimbo000 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:10:03 I think windows should be named an esoteric OS because it is just a pain to use sometimes. 00:10:14 which is why I own a mac. :) 00:10:34 sorry, just venting... I had a failed attempt to make a win2k box dhcp properly. 00:10:38 ugh. 00:26:06 I think it's pretty esoteric how Macs cannot be controlled using the keyboard at all 00:26:54 bah.. that's only a problem if you don't know all the shortcut keys. :) 00:46:38 is 2L a counterexample of the wire crossing problem? 00:56:48 I'm not sure to have understood the problem well 01:05:35 the problem is that languages like Befunge and SNUSP and such seem(ed) need to have a "jump over" instruction somehow 01:12:48 wouldn't a "nop" (space) be enough? 01:13:28 (in the points where the paths cross, that is) 01:16:37 that counts as a wire crossing too 01:18:13 yeah, but no need for # if a space is in the crosspoint 01:19:34 replace "the problem is that" with "roughly stated, the problem is that" 01:22:44 well, part of the state (in the TM/FSA sense) is the PC direction; if a NOP instruction is in the crosspoint then the wires can cross without problems, as long as there's a state that "remembers" the PC direction - that's my opinion at least 02:09:44 I've just written an interpreter for a really esoteric language 02:09:46 I hope it works 02:10:56 what language? 02:24:47 a crazy new one 02:24:56 two-dimensional 02:25:08 45 degree turns 02:30:27 à la Wierd? 02:34:02 no, not like Wierd 02:34:18 just like Befunge or PATH or SNUSP or whatever, but it can move diagonally 02:34:24 and all turns are relative 02:45:04 nice 02:51:25 nite 03:00:17 'nite 03:16:17 -!- puzzlet_ has changed nick to puzzlet. 04:12:56 -!- malaprop has quit ("quit"). 07:24:55 I've released a new two-dimensional language, ADJUST 07:25:02 it is extremely esoteric 07:25:19 look for it at http://www.esolangs.org/files/ in at most eight hours 07:25:24 -!- graue has left (?). 07:28:43 -!- calamari has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:39:31 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 09:12:06 pgimeno: the problem is not whether wires "can cross without problems", it's simply whether wires must cross at all 09:12:19 afaict 2L is rife with wire (or if you prefer, path) crossings 09:13:39 i have a hard time imagining writing a 2L program without crossing at least once - but that doesn't mean much, since i have a hard time imagining writing *any* 2L program :) 09:14:02 anyway, it's way past my bedtime... good night 09:14:08 nite 09:15:10 so the problem is to build a noncrossing program, not to let it cross without problems 09:52:52 -!- jix has joined. 09:53:45 moin 11:21:49 <{^Raven^}> mornin 15:12:47 -!- phos has joined. 15:36:27 * {^Raven^} is watching Live-8 gig in London-UK 17:41:07 -!- sp3tt has joined. 18:51:34 -!- sp3tt_ has joined. 18:55:53 pgimeno: yes... or rather, to find a language where all programs are non-crossing (or prove that there isn't one) 18:55:58 for some definition of non-crossing 18:56:21 which seems to be the real sticking point... it's hard to define how programs should be represented by graphs 18:57:03 -!- sp3tt has quit (Nick collision from services.). 18:57:19 -!- sp3tt_ has changed nick to sp3tt. 18:57:51 anyway, ... i just found this, somewhat randomly: 18:57:54 http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/L/Li/List_of_esoteric_programming_languages.htm 18:58:01 lists several that i've never heard of 19:17:40 sup 19:25:30 -!- yrz\werk_ has quit (Client Quit). 19:26:53 -!- yrz\werk has joined. 19:45:30 oh, i see.. it's just a copy of wikipedia's list... (strangely large list they have considering they don't consider half of them encylopedic enough...) 19:48:30 i'd like to see a voting system on the esolang wiki btw 19:49:08 something like, everyone with a user page is allowed to put either a '+' or a '-' next to each entry on the language list 19:49:16 but only one, and it must have a link to the user page 19:50:12 although... i'm not sure 19:50:52 maybe it would be better to just try to get everything, no matter how bad 19:50:56 but i'm not sure where it stops 19:51:12 like, is Joy esoteric? 19:51:35 or is it too useful? 19:51:57 for that matter, is ALPACA really esoteric? 19:52:34 anyway, someone wake up graue... i want to know why he deleted 23. 20:01:39 bah, the wiki's gone down anyway :( 20:04:13 n/m, back up... maybe it's just under load 20:05:49 -!- J|x has joined. 20:16:04 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:23:41 -!- J|x has changed nick to jix. 20:29:17 -!- sp3tt_ has joined. 20:37:36 -!- sp3tt has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 20:57:21 -!- graue has joined. 21:13:31 hello 21:23:22 cpressey: when I started the esowiki in April, I originally intended to copy over the esolang content from Wikipedia 21:23:48 I got about half through with that before deciding it was a mess and it would be best to start over, so I deleted everything 21:24:11 no one has gotten around to re-adding 23 21:39:17 -!- sp3tt__ has joined. 21:39:25 -!- sp3tt__ has changed nick to sp3tt. 21:53:58 graue: ok, i was about to re-add it... i'll do that, then 21:56:49 -!- sp3tt_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:15:16 -!- sp3tt__ has joined. 22:24:27 hrm. there is sort of a band between esoteric and joke language... sort of an "I DARE you to implement this"...: *W, SARTRE, Magenta, Tamerlane, TURKEY BOMB, probably others... they could be jokes, or esolangs, depending on the weather... wonder if they deserve their own category... 22:30:54 -!- sp3tt has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:42:31 cpressey: I guess a SMITH variant going in spirals can be a TC 2D language 22:47:18 TC noncrossing 2D language, I mean 22:47:21 -!- sp3tt__ has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]"). 22:47:36 (but maybe I'm still misunderstanding something) 22:49:10 hey pgimeno, you looked at ADJUST yet? 22:56:24 -!- phos has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:02:25 -!- Kmkr has joined. 23:02:31 'ello 23:07:46 graue: not yet 23:07:47 hgi Kmkr 23:07:49 hi 23:08:27 graue: link? 23:19:12 hi 23:19:41 pgimeno: it's quite possible. cellular automata look like good leads... 23:19:53 * Kmkr reads about adjust 23:21:35 sounds interesting this far.. 23:23:53 aargh! 23:26:54 this language is evil 23:31:54 -!- yrz\werk_ has joined. 23:33:38 pgimeno, link is: http://www.esolangs.org/files/adjust/ 23:34:43 Kmkr, writing anything in it? 23:37:47 one trick I discovered that was not intentional, is that you can access the 2, 3, and 5 commands by themselves using 2 (2*5*5), K (3*5*5) and } (5*5*5), since applying 5 twice is a nop 23:39:12 -!- yrz\werk has quit (Client Quit). 23:47:57 nope 23:48:01 but perhaps sometime 23:48:19 that's cool, i was wondering how to do that 23:48:20 :) 23:49:07 you were supposed to have to do other stuff too and just deal with the side effects 23:49:20 yeah 23:49:23 but it turned out so confusing to program in that I think the 2K} wimpmode is a good thing 23:49:32 yep 23:52:05 "Push the accelerator's value" 23:52:10 you probably mean accumulator there 23:52:51 probably 23:53:59 "We consider bits in a byte to be numbered from 0 to 7, with 0 being the least significant." 23:54:13 does this mean 00000001 would be one or vice versa? 23:54:26 i've never understood what means least significant 23:55:03 Kmkr: that would be 0 then 23:55:05 the 1 bit is least significant, then the 2 bit, then the 4 bit etc 23:55:21 or on this case, 0th bit :) 23:55:22 in 00000001, the bit that is on is bit 0, yes 23:55:43 -!- heatsink has joined. 23:57:22 ah ok