00:08:19 <{^Raven^}> Aardwolf: Got it working on Windows ;) Pretty cool !
00:09:09 <Aardwolf> {^Raven^}, did you use the version I uploaded just 5 minutes ago? :)
00:09:37 <{^Raven^}> Aardwolf: I used version 23:15, i''l check it out
00:10:17 <Aardwolf> In the newest interpreter, once it's loaded and starts displaying texts, LK will respond almost immediatly after pressing commands (unlike version 23:15 ;))
00:10:55 <{^Raven^}> 23:15 beats quite a few BF interpreters for speed
00:10:59 <Aardwolf> I'm playing LK now, just started reading the help files. This saving with z, is it supposed to work? Doesn't work with brainloller
00:11:25 <Aardwolf> (and I would be surprised if it worked with BF interpreters :))
00:12:04 <{^Raven^}> if you die or want to reload choose play again and enter Y
00:12:33 <Aardwolf> Let me know if you noticed a speed difference in the newest interpreter :)
00:14:27 <Aardwolf> It's really amazing that all those long texts and description are all in this BF code!
00:15:48 <Aardwolf> I also appreciate it that you can type "Take 2" instead of "t2", because when I just started I was using "take" without even knowing that it ignored the other letters than t :)
00:18:20 <{^Raven^}> have you seen the help text/backstory yet?
00:18:30 <Aardwolf> Yep, I'm going through all ?'s now
00:18:37 <Aardwolf> After that, I'll go through all !'s
00:18:59 <{^Raven^}> the help and backstory are the two big green blobs in the middle
00:19:02 <Aardwolf> I already figured I'm a king living in a wooden hut instead of his former castle :)
00:20:42 <Aardwolf> "tickle dwarf number 4" haha :)
00:20:42 <{^Raven^}> maybe 100 pixels down from the top
00:21:23 <Aardwolf> What's the huge red part near the bottom with all the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and <<<<<<<<<<<<<<'s?
00:22:19 <{^Raven^}> the big red bit is the the command processor that peforms the actions
00:22:37 <wildhalcyon> This is the most awesome bf program Ive ever seen
00:23:00 <Aardwolf> wildhalcyon, seen it in this form already? http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m0216922/brainloller/lk.png
00:24:07 <Aardwolf> So basicly, the greenish parts contain lots of text, and the red parts are mostly calculations :)
00:25:26 <{^Raven^}> the green bar in the top third is the room and object description
00:26:41 <wildhalcyon> Oh yes Aardwolf, indeed I have seen it in beautiful picture form
00:29:41 <Aardwolf> does BFBASIC do a lot of optimizations?
00:30:10 <Aardwolf> For example, things like, trying to put things that are often needed together, near each other in memory so that as few >>> and <<<'s are needed as possible :)
00:30:12 <{^Raven^}> most of the code is not as optimal as it could be
00:30:54 <Aardwolf> Well actually the amount of >>>> and <<<<'s probably doesn't matter in a good brainfuck interpreter (and brainloller skips them too now) but it still saves a lot of space
00:31:20 <{^Raven^}> the main size issue relates to how BFBASIC organises conditional code
00:31:53 <Aardwolf> In the big red parts, it's jumping back and forth between two adresses very far apart, appearantly
00:32:27 <Aardwolf> well more than two addresses actually
00:32:38 <{^Raven^}> yes, BFBASIC uses line numbers to label sections of code, each line has a memory cell associated with it
00:32:54 <{^Raven^}> to jump to a particular line you set the corresponding cell to 1
00:33:07 <Aardwolf> Is it possible that all the texts are stored between conditional variables so that it has to jump over the texts all the time?
00:34:33 <Aardwolf> Where is the "map" in the code? I read that there are 2 mazes for example :)
00:36:06 <{^Raven^}> each room sets the exits when the description is printed
00:36:49 <{^Raven^}> (there are actually two seperate but similiar games in LostKng.b)
00:38:00 <{^Raven^}> the short description version is a truer but enhanced conversion of the original game
00:38:42 <Aardwolf> oh, so there are soms rooms connected differently in the short description version?
00:39:25 <{^Raven^}> the map is the same, but there is a key puzzle which is different
00:39:58 <{^Raven^}> and the long version has the nice descriptions is more similiar to what I wanted to write initially
00:40:12 <Aardwolf> I'm playing the long version for now
00:41:29 <{^Raven^}> the game has been played by a lot of 'mainstream' users
00:41:45 <{^Raven^}> who don't even know what brainfuck is :)
00:42:43 <{^Raven^}> and I only had one esoteric beta-tester of the five
00:43:16 <Aardwolf> it's easy to forget that you're using an interpreter for an esoteric language when a game appears :)
00:44:39 <{^Raven^}> I know that bf is turing complete but I needed to prove that it was possible to do
00:45:17 <Aardwolf> I don't think I know any other bf program that I'd want to run longer than 1 minute
00:45:26 <Aardwolf> This, I could keep running for hours :)
00:45:47 <{^Raven^}> <grin> thanks aardwolf that is a big compliment
00:47:05 <{^Raven^}> it shows that esoteric languages can be used to create useful software for a mainstream audience
00:49:07 <Aardwolf> I find it fun to think about people who play it without knowing what language it's written in, and then out of curiosity they open the .b file and see all those weird symbols :)
00:54:48 <{^Raven^}> lk.png makes an interesting backdrop
00:57:13 <Aardwolf> hmm I wonder if I could use those matches on the dynamite...
00:58:56 <{^Raven^}> as non-command colours are treated as whitespace, it should be possible to embed an image within the program
00:59:35 <Aardwolf> yeah now that you mention it I should still optimize the interpreter to jump over nops
01:00:28 <{^Raven^}> users could create logos that the program would flow around
01:01:19 <Aardwolf> yeah, and it's even possible to hide code in an image
01:02:39 <Aardwolf> it would look consipicious of course
01:03:09 <{^Raven^}> unless the image appears to be a random dot stereogram
01:03:21 <{^Raven^}> i wouldn't like to try and code that though
01:05:48 <Aardwolf> Just uploaded an interpreter that will jump over series of nops (won't make a difference for Lost Kingdom of course)
01:09:30 <{^Raven^}> i would never have imagined using paint shop pro as a programmers editor :P
01:10:59 <Aardwolf> I think Piet was the first language to use an image as source :)
01:15:38 <{^Raven^}> i've got lk.png down to 77.8K and it still works!
01:18:36 <{^Raven^}> http://jonripley.com/volatile/lk2.png
01:19:21 <Aardwolf> Did you use a better png encoder?
01:20:58 <{^Raven^}> yeah, used PSP and have confirmed that the images are binary identical
01:22:01 <Aardwolf> I'll see how big it is when saved with the gimp
01:22:50 <Aardwolf> 136kb, and I set compression level to highest
01:25:17 <Aardwolf> aha! managed to bring it to 72KB with the gimp
01:25:30 <Aardwolf> by using indexed color with 16 colors
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07:48:29 <nooga> i looked at that: http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m0216922/brainloller/lk.png
07:48:47 <nooga> and now i want to create a image based esolang ! ;d
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09:07:50 <GregorR> All the cool kids make image-based esolangs.
09:08:08 <GregorR> What's wrong nooga ... aren't you cool ... /me gives nooga an image-bong.
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11:43:28 <Aardwolf> you know what's fun, draw some random lines or pixels on lk.png, save it, and run that. I got this output:
11:43:30 <Aardwolf> a bed. FiFiiiGi<iC<9<=E<i;i<FBiB=iiA;::iB:i7AiiE==<
11:43:32 <Aardwolf> a^y[^Y^y`^[Zy4yYUZy[[^y`[y`y_`yX_y[a`_y`[y
11:46:22 <{^Raven^}> I like the idea that brainroller has about 16.7 million different NOP instructions
11:50:36 <Aardwolf> 4 billion if you use a RGBA png :)
11:51:29 <{^Raven^}> that's almost one NOP per human on the planet
11:55:03 <Aardwolf> I think I found a bug in my png decoder, it gives an error on a png while other decoders can perfectly open it
12:06:03 <Aardwolf> oh it's not a problem after all, it's because I was loading the image while kolourpaint was still busy saving it
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12:10:58 <Aardwolf> You have reclaimed your birthright and your crown.
12:11:01 <Aardwolf> You scored 1 points out of a possible 3.
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12:58:41 <{^Raven^}> (it's all in the back story anyways)
13:03:13 <Aardwolf> I keep dying in the cave due to the cat :)
13:05:19 <Aardwolf> I drew a map on paper showing all connections in the forest and the path and such :)
14:02:16 <Aardwolf> I'm already at 75/100 points in the meantime :)
14:08:01 <{^Raven^}> I'm tempted to call my new game 23:15 after the version of brainloller that compiled for me
14:08:51 <{^Raven^}> (its not an esoteric project though, just for the 2k adventure comp)
14:09:36 <Aardwolf> make sure it wins the competition :)
14:10:16 <Aardwolf> a question, does the catacomb maze change after the fire is out?
14:21:56 <{^Raven^}> (some people never make it through the catacombs)
14:27:29 <Aardwolf> I managed to make a map of the catacombs by marking all rooms with a different object (there were a bit too few objects to mark them all though ;))
14:33:23 <Aardwolf> It's a very confusing map full of arrows, because of all those rooms connecting to themselves and such
14:34:19 <Aardwolf> I'm trying to open the metal door no
14:38:54 <Aardwolf> You have reclaimed your birthright and your crown.
14:38:54 <Aardwolf> You scored 99 points out of a possible 100.
14:38:54 <Aardwolf> You have earned the rank of Master, First Class.
14:39:36 <Aardwolf> (I knew that getting all points wouldn't be easy, it's always like that in adventur games ;))
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15:35:49 <nooga> i have an idea for an image based esolang:>
15:46:39 <nooga> i thought about it
15:47:43 <nooga> and i think i've invented just a image notation that can be applied to a number of esolangs
15:49:58 <nooga> to calculate delta between two pixels
15:50:18 <nooga> and depending on that delta select the instruction to execute
15:50:43 <nooga> wait a sec, i'll introdouce a little example
15:54:36 <nooga> d = delta = abs((R1-R2+G1-G2+B1-B2)/3)
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16:08:57 <Aardwolf> oh so you introduced some freedom so that you can choose colors for pixels to allow your code to look like photos and such :)
16:10:20 <nooga_> and such image can be compiled into brainfuck, befunge or maybe other language ...
16:10:50 <Aardwolf> I'd want to suggest that a large d is also a nop
16:11:17 <Aardwolf> then when you need to make a large color difference at the edges of things in your picture it won't disturb the code
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16:19:58 <nooga_> cholera, nie nie mogles gdzie indziej?!
16:20:11 <nooga_> woo.. ups, excuse me, wrong window :>
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16:22:20 <nooga_> i heard that Polish is one of the most difficult languages on the earth ;p
16:22:46 <Aardwolf> Dutch is pretty hard too I heard :)
16:23:10 <Aardwolf> brainfuck on the other hand, is a pretty easy language
16:24:33 <jix> german has a weird grammar
16:24:37 <nooga_> but coding difficulty is inversely proportional to the language complexity
16:24:59 <jix> nooga_: no..
16:25:27 <jix> malbolge is very complex
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16:25:46 <jix> and its verrrrry difficuilt to code in it
16:26:09 <nooga> but C# is rather more complex than malbolge, and it's fairly easy to code in it
16:26:43 <nooga> wait a minute, I must check that malbolge
16:28:33 <Aardwolf> it's a programming language from hell ;)
16:29:23 <nooga> i dont like M$ but i like C# :>
16:29:34 <nooga> it's good whan you don't have time to play
16:29:49 <Aardwolf> what's so good about C#? (never used it)
16:29:54 <nooga> make an idea, code, finish
16:30:02 <nooga> without any bigger problems
16:30:18 <jix> hah ruby has one step less make an idea (write it down using ruby code because you start thinking in ruby code), finish
16:30:41 <Aardwolf> I just wanted to mention ruby and python :)
16:31:20 <nooga> but C# syntax is quite comfortable
16:31:33 <nooga> i also like perl, but it's another story
16:31:36 <jix> ruby's syntax is really nice
16:31:50 <jix> perl is too cryptic for a non-esoteric langauge
16:32:10 <nooga> i heard an opinion that perl is a big esolang :D
16:32:12 <jix> perl is really useless...
16:33:09 <jix> and perl code is unmaintainable
16:33:38 <jix> nooga: c is old too
16:34:24 <jix> Ruby > * muahahahaaha ;)
16:34:28 <Aardwolf> no way, C++ code compiles in any platform :)
16:34:49 <jix> obj-c is nice too
16:35:11 <jix> it's a bit more dynamic than c++
16:36:02 <jix> and there is obj-c++ which allows you too mix c++ and obj-c (and c)
16:36:33 <jix> i really like obj-c's memory management
16:37:01 <jix> that's something i'm missing in c++
16:37:18 <Aardwolf> I just use std::vectors in C++ these days, no worries and always reliable
16:37:49 <Aardwolf> malloc and new and free are horrible
16:37:50 <jix> Aardwolf: i'm talking about [object retain] and [object release]
16:38:38 <jix> if you use some objects there and there and there it helps a lot avoiding memory leaks/freeing of used memory
16:39:13 <jix> it's like manual reference counting
16:39:54 <jix> i'd like doing this with c++ templates
16:40:02 <jix> or adding a method to all c++ classes
16:40:44 <jix> because c++ is faster than obj-c because obj-c has to do method lookups for every method call
16:41:04 <jix> it's as dynamic as ruby if you don't count the c types like int etc...
16:41:21 <jix> but the implementation of the lookups is a bit more low-level so it's still faster than ruby
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16:41:30 <jix> moin wildhalcyon
16:43:43 <wildhalcyon_> I had an idea for it.. but Im not sure how crazy you would be about it
16:43:44 <Aardwolf> it has a better spec and a better interpreter than yesterday so it's going fine :)
16:44:09 <nooga> C# has got the best MM and GC
16:44:46 <wildhalcyon_> Suppose the entire instruction set fit in a single color space - like all the instructions were Red instructions
16:45:16 <wildhalcyon_> Add two more instructions to flip up and down between the color spaces, so you could theoretically encode 3 instructions per pixel
16:45:40 <wildhalcyon_> Add that to a language like SNUSP and you've got yourself an esolang to be PROUD of
16:46:06 <nooga> wildhalcyon_: look above, how do you like my idea with deltas ?
16:46:18 <Aardwolf> Well, each pixel is 24 bit (32 if you add A channel but that's too annoying to edit in painting programs) and since there are only 10 instructions (4-bit instructions) you could get up to 6 instructions per pixel :)
16:47:47 <wildhalcyon_> Aardwolf: even if you include the two switch instructions?
16:48:12 <wildhalcyon_> nooga: I like the idea, but I don't like the equation
16:48:16 <Aardwolf> with 4 bit you can get up to 16 instructions
16:48:22 <nooga> wildhalcyon_: why not? :>
16:48:52 <wildhalcyon_> try d = delta = [abs(R1-R2) + abs(G1-G2) + abs(B1-B2)] mod n maybe?
16:49:55 <wildhalcyon_> You could still div by 3, but that could allow for non-integer values for the delta
16:50:24 <Aardwolf> hey if you make the n in the formula equal to the amount of instructions, you get a lot of freedom
16:50:29 <Aardwolf> then you can literally make almost any image
16:50:54 <Aardwolf> because then if there are say 10 instructions, a color difference of 0, 10, 20, 30 are all the same instruction :)
16:51:08 <wildhalcyon_> small color differences on the order of n per 2^24 gives a wide range of acceptable small noise values
16:51:45 <Aardwolf> You could also try abs((65536*R1+256*G1+B1) - (65536*R2+256*G2+B2)) mod n
16:53:18 <wildhalcyon_> that might work better for a larger instruction set
16:57:37 <Aardwolf> or just 65536*R+256*G+B mod 10 (for 10 instructions), then a brainfuck to image converter could take an original source image and modify the pixels a little bit so that they all have the correct value after mod 10, you will barely see the difference with the original image
16:57:42 <nooga> what are those lemons on the esolang wiki? ;p
16:58:23 <nooga> i don't se a connection betweens limes and esolangs
16:58:35 <kipple> but it looks nice at leats
16:58:49 <nooga> maybe someone can design some logo ;p
16:58:51 <kipple> there are porbably more esoteric fruits than lime
16:58:55 <wildhalcyon_> a sophisticated converter would probably implement a function to modify different colors up/down depending on local content
16:59:04 <wildhalcyon_> Im not sure WHAT about the local content, but something
16:59:15 <nooga> i thought about that
16:59:53 <nooga> i tried to invant a encryption algorhitm that will use images
17:00:24 <nooga> and that idea with delta came to my head ;p
17:01:33 <wildhalcyon_> In my medical imaging class I was devising a befunge program I call The Diggler.
17:01:46 <wildhalcyon_> It travels in a straight line, encrypting/mangling whatever is in its path
17:02:21 <nooga> but it can help to smuggle some text in image
17:03:14 <Aardwolf> Mind if I make a new language that uses this formula 65536*R+256*G+B mod 11? (8 bf instructions, 2 rotation instructions, 1 nop)
17:03:21 <wildhalcyon_> It would be interesting to devise a rewritable bf variant that did the same thing. Probably MUCH harder considering how big an encryption algo in BF would need to be
17:03:22 <Aardwolf> and has the same specs as brainloller for the rest
17:04:24 <wildhalcyon_> Mind if I implement a SNUSP derivative of Brainloller that uses SNUSP code with the 3 color space idea above?
17:05:29 <Aardwolf> Now all that remains, is finding a nice computer rendered image of 1482x1480 pixels that shows a fantasy setting similar to that of Lost Kingdom
17:06:06 <wildhalcyon_> You could include an braincopter-decoder which replaces the image with the brainloller equivalent
17:06:35 <Aardwolf> almost no modification to the interpreter is needed :D
17:06:48 <Aardwolf> only the bftobmp translator is a bit harder
17:08:15 <Aardwolf> {^Raven^}, have you got a large image that represents the world of Lost Kingdom, that I could use? :)
17:11:20 <Aardwolf> only 2 lines of the brainloller interpreter had to be changed to make it a braincopter interpreter!
17:11:53 <Aardwolf> darn no 12, I also need to include changed numbers in the switch statement
17:12:34 <nooga> i think that Lost Kingdom was written in BFBASIC
17:12:52 <nooga> it's almost impossible to code such thing in pure bf
17:13:56 <{^Raven^}> it would definately be a non-trivial excercise to debug
17:13:58 <Aardwolf> yeah but once you have the LK brainfuck source it's easy to convert it to almost anything
17:19:11 <wildhalcyon_> Anyone remember the name of the befunge derivative that had commands for picking up elements above and below the pointer?
17:25:54 <nooga> thanks wildhalcyon
17:26:28 <nooga> now i'm able to write an image based esolang
17:34:01 <wildhalcyon_> There's an audio watermarking algorithm thats resistant to compression (suitable for mp3s) but it doesn't encode a very large watermark
17:35:29 <wildhalcyon_> http://ecwww.eurecom.fr/~doerr/icip2002Miller.pdf
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17:44:28 <Aardwolf> *looks at his keyboard to see the distance between the g and the p key*
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21:06:59 <Aardwolf> {^Raven^}, here's Lost Kingdom again, but now as braincopter source and with a forest image as background: http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m0216922/braincopter/lk.png
21:07:33 <Aardwolf> The code is pretty much invisible, but is really in the pixels :)
21:11:26 <jix> i have to sleep now canÄz zype anymore---
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22:58:29 <calamari> Aardwolf: are you Adrian Chiang?
22:59:15 <calamari> ahh, ok.. they emailed me and I wasn't sure I if knew them or not :)
22:59:46 <calamari> just had a (possibly) interesting idea, though
23:00:09 <calamari> I could have wiki files that were symbolic links to other webpages
23:00:29 <Aardwolf> like, you think you're in the wiki but you're actually on another site?
23:00:47 <calamari> so, for example Lost Kingdom wouldn't have to be copied to the wiki (1) it's huge (2) copyright violation
23:01:21 <calamari> so instead I'd just save a link to the Lost_Kingdom source code
23:01:39 <Aardwolf> I hope that those symbolic links won't encourage people to use it too much and not make any more public domain content anymore
23:01:56 <calamari> wouldn't be writable, for obvious reasons.. but would expand the code base quite a bit without killing the wiki
23:02:27 <calamari> hmm, I wonder if that'd be a problem
23:03:14 <Aardwolf> Well as long as it's obvious that it's a link to another website it's fine, I guess?
23:04:14 <calamari> perhaps it's rude.. but I don't think there is a law against it :) riaa can get away with taking down links because ppl know they can't put up enough $ to defend against any lawsuits
23:04:57 <calamari> no, I'll take down links if ppl complain ;)
23:05:50 <calamari> or even better would be to redirect to a explanation message
23:06:17 <Aardwolf> so what would such a symbolic link look like, for example the Lost Kingdom source code?
23:06:30 <calamari> well currently files look like this:
23:06:31 <Aardwolf> And will it use bandwidth of the external website everytime someone views the wiki page?
23:06:54 <calamari> <blockquote><pre>program</pre></blockquote>
23:07:27 <calamari> re:bandwidth: no, it won't use bandwidth unless the file was viewed
23:08:12 <calamari> it would need to be used one when the file was created (to get the size).. so I can imagine something like:
23:09:03 <calamari> <blockquote><pre>url\nsize</pre></blockquote>
23:09:29 <calamari> -> might need to be tweaked, that's just off the top of my head
23:10:00 <calamari> it's nice in that it starts with -, usually reserved for program options
23:10:14 <calamari> also > is for redriection of stdout
23:10:20 <Aardwolf> So basically, it would be like a link that can be put inside the article instead of at external resources, and the size will be shown? :)
23:10:37 <calamari> but when you use the "file" it loads from the exteral site
23:11:02 <Aardwolf> oh yeah I see, I understand why some people might complain :)
23:11:48 <calamari> perhaps it could be loaded once
23:12:03 <calamari> then after that it would be in memory and never downloaded again
23:15:01 <calamari> I'm just glad to have a shell and hosting with no bandwidth limits for $5 a month :)
23:15:28 <calamari> csoft.net, directory account.. still offered
23:15:57 <Aardwolf> I'm looking to have some webscpace once my univ page is gone, but I'll look for a Belgian company I think :)
23:16:20 <calamari> wow, 650mb space.. thought it was 250mb, guess they upgraded us :)
23:17:03 <Aardwolf> Well yeah I hope to have my own .be domain one day :)
23:17:09 <calamari> see my scheming to use your bandwidth?
23:17:38 <calamari> does it seem underhanded, or is it okay?
23:18:08 <{^Raven^}> for me it's fine as long as it's not using 100% bandwidth 100% of the time
23:19:34 <calamari> I began to see that the wiki was great for storing experiments and small programs.. but for huge pre-made stuff, it was not very appropriate (i.e. almost anything compiled with bfbasic :)
23:20:00 <{^Raven^}> hehe, most bfbasic programs are quite small - usually
23:20:55 <{^Raven^}> it's not like you will be stealing bandwidth for silly things like images
23:20:55 <calamari> glad to hear it, although I'm not sure I believe it.. :)
23:21:35 <{^Raven^}> and as long as the original page is linked and the source is listed then you're not pretending that it's yours
23:22:01 <{^Raven^}> calamari: they're not pictures - they're programs ;)
23:22:41 <Aardwolf> {^Raven^}, : seen the Braincopter lk.png already? :)
23:23:15 <Aardwolf> http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m0216922/braincopter/
23:23:28 <Aardwolf> it looks like a normal image of a forest tho, it's actually boring when you can't really see the code :)
23:23:34 <calamari> raven: haha that's an aawesome background
23:24:14 <Aardwolf> (btw the forest picture might be copyrighted)
23:24:55 <Aardwolf> (it would be much nicer to have a lost-kingdom related, computer rendered image, rendered at the correct size)
23:25:23 <{^Raven^}> so the code is stored as delta variances within the image?
23:25:34 <Aardwolf> no, each pixel is a command on it's own
23:25:52 <Aardwolf> the command is gotten as (65536*R+256*G+B) mod 11 (because there are 11 commands including the NOP)
23:25:57 <calamari> btw, is it supposed to be Enchanced rather than Enhanced?\
23:26:22 <Aardwolf> enchanced is not an english word
23:26:52 <{^Raven^}> (it would need to be, it's almost 1000 times bigger than the original)
23:27:26 <{^Raven^}> Ardvark: that you pulled it off (the forest piccy) pretty impressive
23:27:28 <calamari> raven: btw did you enter the compo?
23:27:32 <Aardwolf> btw I finished the "short description" verson too, it was just too easy because of the maps I drew, but I was stuck on the cliff without compass once ;)
23:27:55 <{^Raven^}> oops, i knew i'd do that at least once
23:28:11 <Aardwolf> what happens if you press an a and then the tab button?
23:29:19 <{^Raven^}> calamari: My game is almost finished, will enter it in a day or two
23:29:21 <calamari> settings, preferences, input box, nick completion suffix
23:29:41 <calamari> raven: oh, did he extend the deadline?
23:30:06 <{^Raven^}> calamari: yes, deadline is 15th of Sept
23:31:29 <{^Raven^}> kind of sci-fi text adventure, possibly in the lost kingdom universe on earth a thousand years after the war
23:32:44 <Aardwolf> in the BF version, is it intentional that there are just 10 items so that every item ID is a single letter? I ask because I noticed it sees 10 as a different value than 1 (unlike it seeing throw as the same as t), and because of the 55 example with the dwarf
23:37:40 <{^Raven^}> it was intentional to simplify the parser, there were only 10 objects in the original game so it seemed logical to use 0-9
23:38:21 <{^Raven^}> for the parser, only the first character and the last digit are significant, everything else is ignored
23:38:52 <Aardwolf> were there a lot of modifications needed in the original BASIC code, to make it work for BF?
23:39:22 <{^Raven^}> a few modifications were needed to BFBASIC
23:39:42 <{^Raven^}> but the game was completely written from scratch in BFBASIC
23:40:40 <Aardwolf> to print something like "99/100", I guess there are conversions needed from char value to decimal output, does BFBASIC handle that sort of things automatically?
23:40:44 <{^Raven^}> the original source was 2.74Kb of BBC BASIC, the BFBASIC source is over 80Kb long
23:42:34 <{^Raven^}> to print 99/100 you would use: PRINT score;"/";maxscore
23:44:04 <{^Raven^}> BFBASIC is a very powerful language
23:44:09 <Aardwolf> wow, the BBCBASIC code looks very obfuscated :D
23:45:11 <Aardwolf> The file LostKingdom.bcc from LostKingdom17.zip
23:46:20 <{^Raven^}> it is, even if you can load it into BBC BASIC and LIST it (to see the tokens and stuff)
23:47:03 <{^Raven^}> the game text is compressed and encrypted to about 75% original size
23:47:55 <Aardwolf> I'm testing the bbcbasic version (in Wine emulator), now I realize how different it is from the BF version
23:49:40 <{^Raven^}> calamari: want to know some stats of the new game?
23:50:52 <{^Raven^}> it's a lot more limited but was still the best game by far entered into the 2004 comp
23:51:10 <{^Raven^}> nothing else came close in depth and complexity
23:52:26 <{^Raven^}> have you seen: http://jonripley.com/bb4w/software/MiniLogo.html
23:52:50 <{^Raven^}> it is a complete implementation of turtle graphics in one-line of BBC BASIC and only 250 bytes lobg
23:56:18 <{^Raven^}> my game for the 2005 comp is significantly more advanced then Lost Kingdom
23:59:14 <{^Raven^}> 2.4kb of game code with a 7.9Kb data file (so far)
23:59:38 <{^Raven^}> (as we can have an 8K data file this year)