00:20:39 -!- ZeroOne_ has changed nick to ZeroOne. 00:26:06 -!- calamari has joined. 00:26:09 hi 00:48:14 -!- Flannel has joined. 00:49:34 -!- Flannel has left (?). 00:53:00 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:58:47 -!- kipple has joined. 01:16:27 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Whoops, There I go"). 01:28:28 -!- Aardwolf has quit ("Ik zen der is mee weg"). 01:30:58 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 03:10:37 -!- wildhalcyon has joined. 03:41:47 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:10:29 -!- wildhalcyon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:22:18 -!- calamari has joined. 04:24:58 hi 05:48:38 -!- wildhalcyon has joined. 06:03:57 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Whoops, There I go"). 06:32:48 -!- nooga has joined. 06:33:29 hi 06:35:41 hi all 06:39:14 hi puzzlet, nooga 06:39:44 well, EsoShell doesn't work with gcj.. does compile tho! :) 06:41:37 gcwhat? 06:43:35 aaa 06:43:38 java compiler 06:43:52 i don't believe in such things 06:44:50 java was designed to produce it's own bytecode 06:45:43 hehe 06:46:02 i just saw the jsux, do you know what's it? 06:46:35 jsuix 06:47:36 I have no idea what you're talking about, I feel okay about that in this channel, tho :) 06:48:03 hm 06:48:23 jsuix is a javascript unix implementation :) 06:48:45 UNIX-like OS written in JavaScript 06:48:48 http://www.masswerk.at/jsuix/ 06:51:03 click "open terminal" 06:51:19 it's amazing, they even have ported vi 06:53:52 -!- Anulka has joined. 06:54:51 -!- Anulka has changed nick to nooga_. 07:01:51 -!- nooga__ has joined. 07:07:41 nooga__: what you meant to say was 07:07:45 "java was designed to be slow" 07:07:51 a fact which i can't really agree with :) 07:11:17 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:19:04 -!- nooga_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:25:21 -!- nooga__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:47:54 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:19:55 -!- nooga has joined. 08:20:00 bleh 08:26:30 -!- Keymaker has joined. 08:26:38 argh.. 08:26:54 the gammaplex inventor is not here, right? :( 08:27:40 anyways, perhaps someone else could help me; how do it store the stack's top value to something register? 08:36:04 don't ask me :D 08:55:39 ok 08:55:45 :) 08:56:25 * nooga is trying to write a SADOL compiler for x86 09:04:41 btw, i found it out.. 09:04:46 ')' 09:05:43 oh 09:58:45 -!- Aardwolf has joined. 10:01:04 aardwolf, hellow! 10:01:09 *hello 10:01:19 you were the gammaplex author? 10:01:30 -!- jix has joined. 10:01:33 hiya 10:01:35 yes 10:01:38 ok 10:01:45 moin 10:01:49 i just 10 seconds ago completed my first ever gammaplex program: 10:01:49 uu N)u N)u N)uu y) u h) dddv 10:01:49 v K;e;y;m;a;k;e;r; v? Ds m < 10:01:49 v 2;0;0;5; )n <> ?v D ^ 10:01:50 > c B R ( ( ^ >1-)^ 10:02:00 (not very space efficient) 10:02:02 I'll check out what it does :) 10:02:17 it's nothing special but it was my first :) 10:02:22 click the screen 10:02:25 btw jix, Brainloller can't have infinite loops, the IP rotarors are reversible, and the IP starts at top left ;) 10:02:25 ha 10:03:46 Aardwolf: ahh 10:03:53 im' writing the "hunt the wumpus" game in SADOL :D 10:04:25 gotta recompile the gammaplex interpreter 10:04:30 o-k 10:04:37 Keymaker: cool 10:04:44 thanks 10:04:56 it does more than my first gammaplex program 10:04:59 it works... 10:05:03 heh 10:05:56 who has write access to the esolang file archive? 10:06:09 no idea 10:06:41 it makes the screen blue if you click on it? :) 10:06:47 yes 10:06:53 and the darkens it 10:06:55 ooh and it fades out 10:07:02 yes 10:07:24 neat 10:07:49 cheers 10:07:50 I think pgimeno has access 10:08:04 who will help me with my 3d engine project in gammaplex? 10:08:08 (joke) 10:08:27 that's what deltaplex is for, if I ever manage to finish it :) 10:08:41 yeah 10:08:45 drawing textured 3D triangles with only a few commands 10:08:55 mmh nice 10:09:11 there's even a terrain engine in it which is already finished :) 10:09:30 woah.. it'll be something never-seen-before 10:09:32 you just give a heightmap, a texture, a colormap, some coordinates, and the drawterrain command :) 10:10:43 heh 10:10:58 -!- nooga has quit. 10:12:48 aardwolf; how do i get random numbers for example between 0 and 50? 10:13:18 use K, then multiply it by 50 10:13:36 (not k, but K) 10:13:51 oK 10:17:01 i think we should run a gammaplex demo competition 10:17:42 c'mon people! :) 10:18:51 well why not? 10:20:07 yeah 10:20:29 should there be something theme, limitation or other? 10:20:42 hehe yeah, a limitation in code size maybe 10:21:06 yeah, that could be the best 10:21:19 and probably non-interactive demo as well? 10:21:25 can someone do better than tron3k's pong? :) 10:21:39 easy :o) 10:22:01 non interactive demos would be cool but maybe a bit slow on gammaplex 10:22:14 after all, drawing a single mandelbrot is already taking a while 10:22:15 why slow? 10:22:22 probably not slower than intereactive 10:22:37 yeah but in a non interactive the graphics are a bit more important :) 10:22:48 in interactive you can get away with two paddles and a ball :D 10:22:56 to clear; 10:23:10 i meant with "interactive" stuff that user can click buttons and something happens 10:23:24 and with "non-interactive" a demo that just runs and ignores all clickings 10:23:46 but in every case the demo should be not a still picture 10:23:59 something like those demos (Unreal and Second Reality and such) would be too slow :( 10:24:24 it won't need to be anything very awesome 10:24:41 i mean for example a bouncing ball would be neat already 10:24:49 oh that would be fast yeah :) 10:25:56 Has anyone ideas how I can optimize the interpreter? Also it has a huge switch case because there are so many commands, I wonder if that is taking away a lot of speed? 10:26:31 sorry, no idea. 10:26:57 btw; it will take about two or three weeks until i have properly spare time for this 10:27:05 but then i guess we could start a competition 10:27:12 I'm all for it 10:27:20 o-k :) 10:27:47 just wondering how we would get 'nuff entries 10:28:29 hmm I wonder if the demo scene can be attracted to gammaplex 10:28:41 You know, Deltaplex would be so much better for this sort of stuff with it's 3D graphics :) 10:28:54 heh 10:29:04 except it's harder to code in it 10:29:09 because the commands are on an image 10:30:23 i've got one idea you could possibly do 10:30:42 to optimize? 10:30:45 for example make all the deltaplex files to be some dpx packages 10:31:00 and some program to stuff all the textures, code and images into a dpx package 10:31:09 then the interpreter reads the package and so on 10:31:20 and the code could be 2d txt like in gammaplex 10:31:22 -!- kipple has joined. 10:31:35 and it'd be a lot easier to handle all the textures and stuff if they were separate files 10:31:43 hmm but that would remove something I find so nice, the textures and code being together on an image 10:31:52 yes 10:31:59 I have another idea, make a sort of IDE that will put it all on the image 10:32:10 mmh, that's better 10:32:32 otherwise it can be rather difficult to do anything 10:32:42 apart from paint shop pro, no painting program is good enough to do it 10:32:50 and PSP doesnt work in linux :cries: 10:33:00 :\ 10:33:07 (only PSP shows the RGB color if you go with the mouse over the pixel) 10:33:16 heh 10:33:31 and that's important to know which command the pixel is 10:33:36 yes 10:33:56 I've been thinking about making a simple painting program that would do this, but I'm stuck in QT 10:36:52 I could make the painting program in OpenGL tho, using my OpenGL gui :) 10:36:52 but that would be weird, not? A IDE/painting program in OpenGL? 10:36:52 noo 10:36:52 have you got any suggestions for new gammaplex commands? 10:37:05 "frames per second"? 10:37:35 oh wait no 10:37:42 i was thinking about deltaplex 10:37:43 :) 10:37:52 let's see.. 10:38:33 perhaps something set RP to 0 10:40:13 -!- J|x has joined. 10:40:28 that can be done with 0] 10:41:29 oh 10:41:35 didn't notice that command :) 10:42:04 what's the point of E? 10:42:31 it's an infinite loop to make the program stop, a sort of fake way to end 10:42:46 when does the program stop, by the way? 10:42:58 when you reach E 10:43:00 or never 10:43:04 depends on how you view it 10:43:11 there's a close button and a menu in the interpreter to quit 10:43:19 ah 10:43:28 but no "terminate program" command? 10:43:34 no 10:43:50 ok. i was already wondering why i couldn't find one 10:44:10 when I look back at the spec, the { and } commands are really weird, and I should have let it store the working color and working coordinates in the registers (and should have called the registers the memory instead :)) 10:44:24 and I should have allowed memory of arbitrary size 10:46:43 epsilonplex? ;) 10:46:50 or epsiplex 10:47:25 epsiplex sounds nice :) 10:47:58 I'm going to try to improve the gammaplex interpreter later, and will remove the memory limit then (but not now yet) 10:48:09 I mean, backwards compatibility isn't lost by removing the limit :) 10:48:10 ok 10:49:21 by the way I really like the mandelbrot renderer code because it has a subroutine using gosub and return 10:49:38 is it written by you? 10:49:45 yeah :p 10:49:49 nice :) 10:49:57 ty :) 10:50:12 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:50:24 -!- J|x has changed nick to jix. 10:51:26 i'll write a maze game in gammaplex 10:51:52 i'll write something cool in gammaplex 10:52:00 cool :) 10:52:09 but first i'll complete the subskin wiki page 10:52:13 I'll write tetris or breakout when I have the time :) 10:52:28 ah, that'd be neat! 10:52:36 tetris! 10:52:45 tetris is in the suggestion list of gammaplex programs if I remember correctly :) 10:53:42 yeah 10:53:51 snake/worm game would be nice too 10:54:22 yeah 10:54:40 or something like Elite!!!! :) 10:54:51 but that would probably be too slow :) 10:55:17 dunno what that is 10:55:47 one of the first 3D space shooters, featuring wireframe ships, trading goods to earn money and buy better ships, pirates and so on :) 10:55:55 cool 10:56:33 i'll port the TI 92+?/89/v200 pheonix (platinum)? game 10:56:51 its written in m68k asm 10:59:04 looks like a neat game http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/ss/48/4815.gif 11:00:03 hmm but i can't read m68k asm.. 11:00:50 hehe 11:00:58 :0 11:01:16 then you have to make a totally new one 11:01:17 but the game is the best game for ti calcs 11:01:19 but you can try to copy the gameplay 11:01:34 Aardwolf: yeah 11:02:23 but first i've to finish this stupid subskin wiki article 11:02:30 ok 11:03:13 haha my friends always ask me what i'm going to do today and i always tell them i'm going to write programs the whole day.. 11:03:46 hehe 11:03:56 I say something similar to my friends often too 11:04:01 I don't think they like it :( 11:05:13 i think they would be shocked if i say "i'm going somewhere to play football because the weather is nice" ;) 11:06:14 heh 11:06:34 in brainfuck, if you type input and you type something of multiple letters, will each next , command in brainfuck use these next letters? (I'm just trying to figure out how the C getchar() command works in fact ;)) 11:07:02 yes, i think 11:07:09 everything you write to STDIN is written to a buffer 11:07:19 its pushed to it 11:07:25 and getc shifts one char out 11:07:33 (queue not stack) 11:07:36 ah a FIFO buffer 11:20:39 yeah 11:33:46 by the way, is gammaplex file extension .txt? 11:33:56 and, if you pop an empty stack, it returns 0? 11:39:21 it doesn't have to be .txt 11:39:34 hmm let me check the code for that last question 11:40:10 nope, but i mean should i use .gpx on my site.. 11:40:50 you can if you want 11:40:59 ok :) 11:41:00 it's only a very little bit harder to open with a text editor :) 11:41:32 in windows explorer at least 11:42:18 I implemented the gammaplex stack in a sort of weird way, but it'll probably return 0 unless it's memory is full 11:42:34 I hadn't discovered std::vectors back then hence the dumb memory limits and weird stack :) 11:43:06 ok 11:47:56 done: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Subskin 11:51:59 yam.. 11:52:02 i like this 11:52:33 wow 11:52:36 one command? 11:52:40 and turing complete? 11:52:40 Aardwolf: yes 11:52:42 yes 11:52:55 but thats nothing special.. there were some OISC implementations before subskin 11:53:05 I see 11:53:08 but i don't know any that uses my instruction 11:53:19 this certainly is short ruby code for an interpreter :) 11:54:22 but didn't my professor Object Oriented Programming warn us that one letter variable names are bad? :D 11:54:26 i had the subskin idea (and name!) a long time ago but never implemented it.. yesterday i searched a language for writing a super short interpreter for... 11:54:39 Aardwolf: haha 11:55:17 i don't understand it fully however.. :\ 11:55:38 i use them often in ruby... but only in a scope that has a length of... 1 line... ["h4","37"...].map{|i|i.hex} for example.. 11:56:40 I use them often too, except in tasks for this professor heh 11:57:32 the only other name for i that would fit is iterator_variable... and thats too long because you need such kind of variables every 10th line 11:57:35 aardwolf: the second rgb is 0 0 0 in the beginning in the gammaplex..? 11:58:02 I'll look it up in the source 11:58:28 You know what's sort of stupid, the gammaplex specification is based on the interpreter sometimes instead of the opposite 11:58:47 :) 11:58:57 subskin is spec first... 12:00:02 the Hello, world! subskin example is self modifying... 12:00:40 cool :) 12:01:12 every a-bit-more-complex subskin program has to use self modification 12:01:48 yeah the second color is initially 0 0 0 appearantly 12:02:03 that's cool 12:02:21 that must make it pretty hard to program in :) 12:03:49 with a text editor it is 12:04:04 with a assembler like thing it's easier 12:04:55 hehe this is always fun, first write the complete interpreter in C++, when done, compile it for the first time and see how many errors there are 12:05:02 cool only 3! 12:05:18 subskin interpreter? 12:05:22 (in c++?) 12:05:37 no, Mycelium interpreter 12:05:46 mmh what's that? 12:05:56 a new language :) 12:06:00 cool 12:06:06 image based, and about as complex as befunge 12:06:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycelium 12:06:24 mycelium has something to do with mushrooms too btw :) 12:06:38 :9 12:06:44 all befunge clones should have a mushroom like name ;) 12:07:27 now I gotta make some mycelium programs to see if the interpreter works correctly 12:07:45 ok 12:08:15 kolourpaint to the rescue 12:25:25 -!- grim_bed has changed nick to grim_. 12:26:18 wb grim_ 12:26:33 lo all 12:29:46 'ello 13:13:26 aardwolf, does the 'i' command print the number to locations in x and y? 13:18:38 yes 13:18:43 ok 13:19:27 it's good that you ask those questions, it'll allow me to improve the spec some time 13:21:03 yeah 13:46:42 hi 13:47:04 jix, I have access to the repository 13:47:23 When typing something in console and pressing enter, is this enter character 10 or 13? 13:48:07 10 when getchar() receives it, but that happens in Unix only 13:48:30 I receive it with getchar(). How to make it platform independent? 13:48:34 in Windows getchar() receives a 13 then a 10 13:48:44 and in mac a 13? 13:49:01 I think so, maybe jix can give a definitive answer 13:49:34 I wonder if Lost Kingdom checks for both 10's and 13's 13:50:00 {^Raven^}: does it? 13:50:10 I think that the language specifications free you of those problems 13:51:42 so even in Windows the language gets always 10 after a carriage return 13:51:48 I wonder if they did it on purpose, each choosing a different way to represent enter (mac, win and unix) 13:51:59 no idea 13:52:07 Now all that's missing is an OS that does 10 first and then 13 :rolleyes: 13:52:08 I suppose there are historic reasons 13:52:36 is the reason that ascii was not well defined? I mean maybe the carriage return and newline thing was too confusing? 13:54:00 yeah, that's probably the reason 14:02:07 in some old typewriters a carriage return was to move the carriage horizontally and then you needed to press line feed, which rotated the drum 14:02:47 there's not an end-of-line character well-defined in ASCII 14:03:14 -!- Keymaker has quit ("I've seen this d�j� vu before.."). 14:03:37 the ZX Spectrum (a Z80-based micro) took CR as end-of-line too 14:04:26 it's CP/M the one which took the CR/LF combination, later inherited by DOS 14:08:03 mac os 9 (oooold) uses 13 as return 14:08:11 mac os x uses 10 14:08:52 ah okay 14:09:08 was the change painful? 14:09:45 which is like asking, would it be painful if Windows switched to 10 too? 14:10:33 pgimeno: mac os x is another system .. not the next version of mac os 9 14:10:42 so you can't compare it with windows 14:10:45 oh ok 14:11:05 mac os x has some compatibility libs and binary loaders to allow the user to run some old apps 14:12:10 but mac os 9 was a really old kernel.. there was no command line no STDIN no STDOUT no posix at all cooperative multi tasking resource forks... mac os x is based on NextStep and BSD 14:13:47 mac os x uses the Mach kernel (mach started as a fork of the bsd kernel but got rewritten) used by Next. Most cli programs and parts of c libs are from BSD afaik and the whole Objc thing + Cocoa is just a newer version of NextStep 14:14:26 all cocoa classes start with NS for NextStep (NSWindows NSArray NSString NSDictionary....) 14:14:38 what happened to NeXT? 14:15:11 apple buyed next 14:15:23 some people say it was the other way around 14:15:44 NeXT activists, I expect 14:16:44 I tried windows longhorn beta, and was wondering what was actually changed except a nerf in the file searching system 14:16:47 because steve jobs (one of the apple founders and ceo at some time and today) got fired by apple and founded Next.. Next had no money and apple buyed it... but steave jobs is now apple ceo and apples software is based on next... 14:16:54 nice job the Subskin page, btw 14:17:06 so it was like NeXT buying apple 14:17:20 pgimeno: ah about the file archive 14:17:32 i'd like to submit my bfx.rb brainfuck interpreter 14:17:55 no problem 14:18:09 and i'd like to have write access too because i often write interpreters for languages 14:18:19 except I'm having lunch right now 14:18:37 do you know how to use svn? 14:21:23 i used it once to download source code.. seems to be pretty ease (not like cvs) 14:21:23 it's very CVSish, just properly done 14:21:23 ask graue for access then 14:21:23 i know it works like cvs.. but cvs is not as easy as svn because of cryptic commands and and and... 14:21:23 if i see svn commands i can guess what they do 14:21:23 if i see cvs commands i just hope they don't act like rm -rf / 14:21:23 anyway the cvs/svn up / cvs/svn commit cycle is similar in both 14:21:52 i want to learn how to use svn anyway 14:22:26 it's easy enough for you, I guess 14:23:36 meaning, I don't expect you having the trouble many people have with it 14:25:18 one thing i don't like about svn is that under osx it detects the UI language instead of don't finding a local and using english as default 14:25:24 i want gui in german 14:25:26 but cli in english 14:27:51 graue was active on the wiki yesterday but wasn't here yesterday... 14:28:31 what are your locale settings? I use English CLI 14:28:41 i have no locale settings 14:28:54 it isn't set on mac os x by default 14:29:04 try LANG=en svn 14:29:10 it works 14:29:27 but svn is the first cli program that uses the gui lang if it doesn't find a locale 14:29:27 then you can write a wrapprt 14:29:41 strange 14:30:30 edited my environment.plist 14:35:13 I'm ready, do you want me to upload the file? 14:47:02 I've taken the code from the wiki (removing the LF) and I'm ready to commit 14:47:11 jix? 14:49:31 -!- wildhalcyon has joined. 14:50:18 added cat.subskin and hello.subskin, ready to commit too 15:00:45 <{^Raven^}> Aardwolf: Lost Kingdom checks for and accepts both CR and LF for line endings 15:03:05 <{^Raven^}> Aardwolf: If the console returns CRLF or LFCR as a line ending the second byte is treated as a null command 15:11:47 <{^Raven^}> Aardwolf: RISC OS return 10 for Enter 15:18:50 ok 16:18:34 -!- nooga has joined. 16:18:42 hello :D 16:35:16 hi 16:43:10 wassup? 17:03:13 I'm busy testing and debugging the Mycelium interpreter 17:05:55 mycelium? 17:08:01 a fungeoid 17:08:23 an image based fungeoid :) 17:08:41 It's doing weird though, there are no floats and no doubles in my interpreter, yet I get a "Floating point exception" 17:09:22 oooh 0/0 17:17:39 -!- lindi- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:19:19 ah yay 17:19:29 anyone from London here? 17:27:37 * {^Raven^} is in Sheffield - not *that* far away 17:28:11 pgimeno: bfx.rb isn't on the wiki 17:28:15 but thanks for adding subskin 17:28:27 i just saw the Battersea Power Station on Pink Floyd's cover 17:28:50 pgimeno: can i dcc bfx.rb to you? 17:28:54 this building looks just awesome 17:32:34 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9e/Battersea_Powerstation_-_Across_Thames_-_London_-_020504.jpg/800px-Battersea_Powerstation_-_Across_Thames_-_London_-_020504.jpg 17:35:12 it does? :D 17:36:10 it does 17:41:17 maximally surrealistic eh? 17:41:30 i'd love to go there and make some photos 17:41:40 heh, g2g, bye all 17:41:43 -!- nooga has quit. 17:43:09 * grim_ is in Edinburgh 17:45:52 howdy! 17:48:23 i've written skasm (SubsKin ASseMbler).. it's a big ruby hack but it works 17:48:35 yay! 18:23:09 jix: is subskin.rb an appropriate name? 18:24:30 re bfx.rb: dcc is ok, what is it supposed to be? 18:26:01 bfx.rb is the shortest ruby brainfuck interpreter 18:26:08 (dcc is ok as long as I'm not afk, of course) 18:26:09 and yes subskin.rb is the name i use 18:26:35 so brainfuck/impl looks like a sensible place, right? 18:26:39 yes 18:28:04 -!- Aardwolf has quit ("Ik zen der is mee weg"). 18:34:17 commited both - now you'll have to wait for the archive copy to be updated or look at the repository directly 18:38:10 the direct link to the repository is http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/svn/esofiles/ but graue discourages using it 19:16:54 -!- kipple has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:17:08 -!- kipple has joined. 20:20:21 my old hello world implementation was stupid... 20:22:42 graue was on the wiki today 20:22:47