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00:09:59 <Wildhalcyon> hey all
00:10:04 <kipple> hi
00:10:21 <Wildhalcyon> Gah, what a horrible weekend. Did I miss anything fun?
00:10:31 <kipple> don't know. been away
00:11:21 <Wildhalcyon> Sounds like fun
00:11:32 <kipple> haha
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00:53:39 <kipple> W: is there a standard file extension for glypho files?
01:45:04 <Wildhalcyon> KIPPLE, ASCII, PROBABLY
01:45:12 <Wildhalcyon> ack, sorry bout the caps
01:45:24 <Wildhalcyon> good ol' text
01:45:46 <kipple> I meant: do you call them hello.g, hello.glypho or something else?
01:46:09 <kipple> anyway, I've rewritten my kipple-interpreter to a Glypho shorthand interpreter
01:46:40 <Wildhalcyon> cool kipple - haven't come up with an extension yet
01:47:06 <Wildhalcyon> .gly probably - then a lot of files will be named "u.gly"
01:47:13 <kipple> haha
01:47:41 <kipple> actually, you need to extensions. one for proper glypho and one for shorthand
01:48:02 <Wildhalcyon> .gsh for shorthand I guess
01:48:36 <Wildhalcyon> Im sorry my C interpreter isn't out yet. Been kind of pressed for time, work & study
01:49:08 <kipple> np. didn't take long to convert my kipple interpreter
01:50:12 <Wildhalcyon> That's good. Kipple uses stacks?
01:50:16 <kipple> yes
01:51:00 <Wildhalcyon> Im sorry, been a while since I looked at the spec
01:51:20 <Wildhalcyon> I liked the language. Its got good flavor
01:53:44 <kipple>  what happens when you reverse instruction flow? are < and > inverted?
01:55:09 <Wildhalcyon> As of right now, I think its ready to be symbolic reversal, and we'll just see what  happens ;-)
01:55:40 <kipple> not sure what you mean...
01:56:17 <Wildhalcyon> Take the underlying symbols of each instruction and reverse them, as well as reversing the instruction flow
01:56:38 <kipple> ok. so < and > are not inverted then?
01:56:55 <kipple> but [ and ] has to be inverted at least, no?
01:58:02 <Wildhalcyon> Well, < and > are, as are [ and ], i and o, and ! and 1
01:58:07 <Wildhalcyon> the rest are the same
01:58:47 <kipple> hmm. this complicates the interpreter a lot ;)
01:59:14 <kipple> since I'm working with shorthand and not the patterns
02:00:24 <Wildhalcyon> Well, the nice thing is that you dont NEED to know the patterns
02:00:39 <Wildhalcyon> just know that those four sets are reversals, while the other seven instructions stay the same
02:00:44 <kipple> yes
02:00:57 <Wildhalcyon> have a boolean "is_reverse" value, and if its true, swap the instruction tables
02:01:14 <kipple> yes, that's what I'm doing
02:01:26 <kipple> I guess "a lot" was a bit of an overstatement
02:01:37 <Wildhalcyon> ok
02:01:54 <Wildhalcyon> To be honest, Im not certain its a really useful instruction. I just.. didnt know what else to do with it
02:02:13 <kipple> it can be a lot of fun
02:02:16 <kipple> I think....
02:04:37 <Wildhalcyon> Im actually finding it difficult to code with...
02:04:59 <kipple> yes. but that can be agood thing :)
02:05:21 <Wildhalcyon> I suppose so
02:05:22 <kipple> do you have a working program using it?
02:06:01 <Wildhalcyon> The original reason I introduced the instruction was to let the program end... early, by reeversing to the beginning
02:06:08 <Wildhalcyon> I don't have one yet, no
02:06:30 <kipple> ok. I'll write one then. need to test that the interpreter works
02:07:08 <kipple> so ! is the opposite of 1 and not +?
02:07:19 <Wildhalcyon> yes,exactly.
02:08:43 <Wildhalcyon> and + is not the opposite of -
02:17:17 <GregorR> Please, bring me up to date.
02:17:38 * kipple brings GregorR up to date
02:17:57 <GregorR> Thank you!
02:18:02 <GregorR> That was quick and painless!
02:19:01 <Wildhalcyon> you missed a lot
02:19:06 <kipple> W: you're right that r is hard to program with
02:19:14 <Wildhalcyon> told you!!!
02:19:46 <GregorR> Damn.
02:19:48 <GregorR> Clearly.
02:20:28 <Wildhalcyon> the best thing I could come up with was: 111[!r+1] which doesn't really do mch
02:20:30 <Wildhalcyon> much
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02:22:14 <kipple> are you sure that one works? I get an empty stack exception
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02:25:48 <kipple> I don't see how that loop can ever terminate. It will just empty the stack, and then crash
02:28:01 <Wildhalcyon> Shouldn't.. remember, you need to reverse instruction flow during reverse too
02:30:59 <Wildhalcyon> so, if you "unfold" it without the reverse symbol, you should get 111!1!++1!1!++1!1!++... hmm, no, you're right
02:31:07 <Wildhalcyon> it eventually gets stuck
02:31:27 <Wildhalcyon> but... what would I do without reverse. I'd have 14 instructions! I'd.. be screwed
02:31:47 <Wildhalcyon> r == rand?
02:32:07 * Wildhalcyon loathes himself for his lack of certainty
02:32:17 <kipple> as I understand it the second + will try to add with only one number on the stack
02:32:47 <kipple> r might still be useful. just don't know how :)
02:34:33 <kipple> random is also a useful instruction
02:40:10 <Wildhalcyon> I know, and in some cases much valued, but... is it right for glypho? I don't see how reverse can POSSIBLY be useful without doing something useful itself
02:42:50 <kipple> well, I'm off to bed now. let me know if you make a decision :)
02:43:03 <Wildhalcyon> g'night kipple
02:44:19 <Wildhalcyon> well crap
02:44:47 <kipple> crap? what?
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16:02:25 <nooga> hi
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16:18:18 <nooga> hi jix
16:19:21 <jix> moin
16:34:07 <kipple> hello
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22:51:50 <kipple> http://www.expertrating.com/jobs/Programming-jobs/Befunge-Programmer-jobs.asp
22:52:30 <GregorR> LOL
22:53:03 <GregorR> Man, that automatic page generator is stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupide
22:53:10 <GregorR> So stupid it makes me spell stupid as stupide.
22:57:04 <kipple> they have INTERCAL too: http://www.expertrating.com/jobs/Programming-jobs/Intercal-Programmer-jobs.asp :D
22:58:49 <GregorR> lol]
22:59:00 <kipple> but no bf :(
22:59:34 <GregorR> Nor kipple ;)
22:59:40 <kipple> boo
23:01:33 <cpressey> <300-foot-high-letters>WTF</300-foot-high-letters>
23:01:53 <kipple> heh. getting such a nice looking certificate would almost be worth the $10 just for the humor value
23:02:22 <GregorR> I am a certified Befunge programmer!
23:02:26 <GregorR> Yay!
23:02:28 <GregorR> :-P
23:03:13 <Aardwolf> This site is US friendly - Hosted in the US - Payments in US Dollars - Payments received in the US through a US based payment processor <--- yeah duh who else would use such spammy looking site :p
23:04:30 <kipple> it is located in the UK though
23:04:37 <Aardwolf> hmm lol
23:05:37 * Aardwolf gonna take the free Computer Skills Test
23:06:09 * Aardwolf is too lazy to fill in the email adress form so won't take the test anyway
23:37:08 <GregorR> Wow, you're too lazy to type an email address so you're not going to take the test, how could you possibly have filled out that entire test form?
23:38:25 <Aardwolf> good point, but yeah I'm always too lazy to fill in email forms, I mean all those stupid sites requiring you to make an account to take 1 dumb test
23:38:26 <kipple> since he wasn't too lazy to write a whole sentence about it here, I assume his email address is extremely long
23:39:16 <kipple> just keep around an account for that purpose
23:39:37 <kipple> you don't have to make a new one each time
23:40:09 <GregorR> Aardwolf's email address: IAmAardwolfTheProgrammerOfEsotericLanguagesAndPerpetratorOfEmailsTooLongToRemember4546327859623793465789436257043265798042365783274803265704999036254789032430548903254321754089325748902564891065419078654890175489027503891754890237@server5435432.pop3.mail.aardwolfswebsiteaboutnothinginparticular.com
23:41:09 <kipple> hmm. what characters are allowed in email addresses? can one use stuff like +, < or ] ?
23:41:21 <GregorR> I'm pretty sure it's alphanumeric + _
23:41:24 <GregorR> I think even - is illegal.
23:41:32 <GregorR> No wait, I've seen +s ...
23:41:32 <kipple> ok
23:41:48 <GregorR> And I know .s are OK :-P
23:41:54 <GregorR> OK, I have no clue, why am I talking?
23:43:04 <Aardwolf> So we need a BF variant that uses alphanumeric characters instead of +, <, ] and so on
23:45:32 <GregorR> We have one: PlusPlusLessthansymbolLeftbracket
23:45:36 <GregorR> :P
23:45:49 <kipple> 64 chars max...
23:45:55 <GregorR> Awwwww :(
23:46:58 <Aardwolf> ?
23:47:17 <kipple> allowed chars are alphanumeric plus !#$%&'*+-/=?^_`{}|~ (according to rfc2822)
23:47:52 <Aardwolf> many email addresses have a . in them
23:48:03 <kipple> well, plus that one :)
23:48:08 <GregorR> lol
23:50:07 <kipple> I tried to create an address +++ at my domain provider, but it didn't work :(
23:52:10 <kipple> hmm. I managed to create the address .@krokodille.com. I wonder if it will work....